Materialists

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Episode Summary – "Materialists"

Release Date: June 16, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of NPR’s Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Ayesha Harris and Linda Holmes delve into the newly released film Materialists. Joined by podcast producer and film critic Kate Young, the trio explores the movie’s exploration of love, financial security, and the intricate dance between the two.

Overview of Materialists

Materialists stars Dakota Johnson as Lucy, a New York City matchmaker who grapples with the fundamental question: should one date for love or financial security? The film presents Lucy entangled in a love triangle with two compelling characters—Pedro Pascal’s wealthy older man and Chris Evans’s aspiring actor who works as a cater waiter. Directed by Celine Song, known for Past Lives, Materialists aims to offer a fresh take on romantic drama by foregrounding the role of finances in romantic relationships.

Hosts’ and Guest’s Reactions and Analysis

Linda Holmes' Perspective

Linda Holmes expresses a generally positive view of Materialists, albeit with some reservations. She appreciates the film’s central theme of financial considerations in romantic choices, noting, “I appreciated having that be the theme of it. I basically enjoyed it” ([03:18]). However, Holmes finds Dakota Johnson’s performance somewhat flat, describing her portrayal as resembling “a meditation video” with a “hyper, soothing, professional voice” ([03:18]). She critiques the film for not being as “closely observed” as Song’s previous work, Past Lives, suggesting that while Materialists is “pretty good,” it doesn’t reach the same emotional depth.

Kate Young's Perspective

Contrary to Holmes, Kate Young is notably more enthusiastic about Materialists. She praises Dakota Johnson’s performance, stating, “she does exactly the kind of Dakota Johnson thing that I like from her” ([04:35]). Young also commends Pedro Pascal’s portrayal, highlighting his “infinite charm” and vulnerability ([15:13]). She appreciates the film’s candid discussion about marriage as a business arrangement, noting its alignment with contemporary discussions about the “soft life” and financial security in relationships ([05:29]). However, Young expresses frustration with the film’s resolution, feeling that the romantic conclusion is too predictable and doesn’t align with the film’s earlier themes ([10:29]).

Ayesha Harris's Perspective

Ayesha Harris presents a more critical view of Materialists, contrasting it with Past Lives. She describes the film as a “fascinating misfire” that, despite its intriguing premise, falls short in execution. Harris criticizes the protagonist’s character development and the film’s reliance on traditional romantic tropes, stating, “I just found myself very confused by the Dakota Johnson character's entire MO” ([07:00]). She also points out the film’s problematic plot device where Lucy experiences trauma related to her matchmaking, which feels forced and ethically questionable ([07:00]).

Discussion of Themes: Materialism vs. Love

A central theme of Materialists is the tension between pursuing love and seeking financial stability. The movie provocatively questions whether financial security should outweigh genuine emotional connections in the quest for a partner. Holmes appreciates the film’s honest exploration of this rarely addressed aspect in romantic movies ([03:18]), while Harris feels that the romantic element is underdeveloped, making the overall narrative feel unbalanced ([07:00]).

Character Analysis: Lucy

Lucy, portrayed by Dakota Johnson, serves as the film’s focal point. Her character is a matchmaker who openly discusses the importance of financial security in relationships. Holmes notes that Lucy’s “plain spoken” nature about money is refreshing but finds her emotional range limited ([03:18]). Harris critiques Lucy’s inability to transition from a materialistic perspective to a more emotionally driven one, finding the character’s transformation unconvincing ([07:00]).

Critique of the Plot and Script

The script of Materialists receives mixed reviews from the hosts. Holmes acknowledges that while the film sets up intriguing questions about money and love, it doesn’t decisively answer them, leaving the audience in a state of ambiguity ([04:29]). Harris criticizes the plot’s reliance on traditional romantic resolutions, finding the midpoint twist—where Lucy has an emotional epiphany triggered by a client’s bad experience—both “icky” and poorly integrated into the narrative ([07:00]). Young points out that the film’s conclusion feels forced, adhering to conventional romantic comedy endings despite the film positioning itself as a drama ([10:29]).

Acting Performances: Dakota Johnson, Pedro Pascal, Chris Evans

Dakota Johnson’s portrayal of Lucy is a point of contention. While Holmes finds her performance flat, Young defends Johnson, appreciating her ability to embody the character’s materialistic yet introspective nature ([04:35]). Pedro Pascal is lauded for adding depth to his character, showcasing both charm and vulnerability ([15:13]). Chris Evans, though not as consistently lauded, receives praise for his role as the cater waiter, with Holmes suggesting he could excel more in romantic comedies based on his performance in Materialists ([13:36]).

Genre Classification and Comparisons with Past Lives

A significant part of the discussion revolves around genre classification. While the film promotes itself as an elevated romantic comedy, Holmes and Harris argue it aligns more with a romantic drama due to its serious themes and less comedic resolution ([09:17]). Comparing it to Past Lives, directed by the same filmmaker, Materialists is seen as less nuanced and emotionally compelling. Holmes appreciates Past Lives for its “closely observed” narrative and chemistry between leads, which she feels Materialists lacks ([02:27]).

Conclusion

Materialists attempts to blend romantic drama with a critique of materialism in modern relationships. While it introduces thought-provoking themes about love and financial security, the execution leaves room for improvement, particularly in character development and narrative resolution. The hosts of Pop Culture Happy Hour provide a multifaceted critique, highlighting both the film’s ambitions and its shortcomings. Despite differing opinions among the panel—ranging from appreciation to disappointment—the discussion underscores the film’s relevance and the ongoing dialogue about the role of money in love.

Notable Quotes

• Ayesha Harris ([00:04]):

  "Look, we're all living in a material world and if you're in the market for a romantic partner, the conundrum may arise. Date for love or financial security?"

• Linda Holmes ([03:18]):

  "I enjoyed it. I certainly did not like it as much as Past Lives. I did not find it as closely observed as that. For me, it is pretty good."

• Kate Young ([04:35]):

  "I felt like I got a much clearer and more accessible insight into Celine Song's kind of thought process."

• Kate Young ([05:29]):

  "Marriage is a business arrangement. That's something that she straight up says a handful of times in the film."

• Ayesha Harris ([07:00]):

  "The protagonist is going to suddenly have an emotional change of heart based on the trauma or the pain of a tertiary character. It felt very icky to me."

• Linda Holmes ([10:41]):

  "I don't understand how to square much of what happens with the movie with the ending, unless you just assume that it has very traditional ideas about romance and love."

• Kate Young ([15:13]):

  "There is also a level of vulnerability under there that I haven't seen in any of his roles."

Final Thoughts

While Materialists may not achieve universal acclaim, its attempt to intertwine romance with socio-economic commentary marks it as a noteworthy addition to the romantic drama genre. The conversation among the hosts and their guest highlights the complexities of balancing financial security with emotional fulfillment, a theme that resonates deeply in today’s socio-economic climate.

Transcript

[Ayesha Harris]

Look, we're all living in a material world and if you're in the market for a romantic partner, the conundrum may arise. Date for love or financial security?

[Linda Holmes]

This is the central premise of the new movie Materialists. It's got Dakota Johnson at the center of a love triangle with Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans. Tough life there. I'm Linda Holmes.

[Ayesha Harris]

And I'm Aisha Harris. And today we're talking about Materialists on pop culture. Happy hour from npr.

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[Ayesha Harris]

Joining us today is podcast producer and film and culture critic Kate Young. Welcome back, Kate.

[Kate Young]

Hi. Excited to be back again? Yeah.

[Ayesha Harris]

It's great to have you here. So Materialist stars Dakota Johnson as Lucy, a New York City matchmaker rose. One evening she meets a handsome and very wealthy older man played by Pedro Pascal. You look about 6ft tall.

[Linda Holmes]

How much money do you make just.

[Ayesha Harris]

Straight up like that? I make 80 grand a year before taxes.

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Do you make more or less than that?

[Kate Young]

More.

[Ayesha Harris]

Hmm. Conveniently her ex comes back into her life. At the same time, he's a cater waiter pursuing an acting career and he's played by Chris Evans. Lucy finds herself conflicted by her desire to live a soft life and is forced to consider what will make her truly happy. It's written in, directed by Celine Song, who made the lovely film Past Lives. Materialists is in theaters now. Linda, I'm going to start with you. What did you make of Materialists?

[Linda Holmes]

I basically liked it. I found it to be a little bit flat in places. I am a sucker for, particularly the two guys in this triangle. I have liked Dakota Johnson in some things and not other things. I think they make a very specific decision about the affect for her to have in this film where she sort of always sounds to me like she's making a meditation video or something like that. She's got a very kind of hyper, soothing, professional voice that I clearly is a decision. It's not a lack of skill, it's the choice that they made about how she should present. I found it a little distracting, so that performance was tough for me. I did very much appreciate the fact that, as you mentioned in the intro, it is a film that allows people to talk about the fact that finances play a role in how they conduct their lives and how they choose partners, which movies rarely do. And I appreciated having that be the theme of it. I basically enjoyed it. I certainly did not like it as much as past lives. I did not find it as closely observed as that. For me, it is pretty good.

[Ayesha Harris]

Kate, I'm so, so curious to hear your thoughts about this movie. Tell us, tell us.

[Kate Young]

Well, it seems like I'm the lone dissenter because I liked this a lot more than Past lives. To be completely honest, I didn't dislike Past Lives. It just didn't quite hit me the way that it hit everyone else. Whereas with Materialists, I felt like I got a much clearer and more accessible insight into Celine Song's kind of thought process. I am also a Dakota Johnson apologist. She's one of the few people who can get me to watch pretty much anything. And I think in this role she does exactly the kind of Dakota Johnson thing that I like from her. And so that was delightful. I really also like the male leads. I think Chris Evans is doing some work here that is maybe not quite as good as we might like, but certainly better than he's done in quite some time. I think the last performance of his that I really enjoyed was in the Gray Man. Very little needs to be said about Pedro Pascal, I think he's great.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It's very plain spoken about the fact that marriage is a business arrangement. That's something that she straight up says a handful of times in the film. Yeah, right. And, like, I have always appreciated that perspective specifically because, you know, now that we've. We've kind of come back around to soft life, like, I think it makes sense to recognize that, like, the other side of that is that a male partner has to be able to provide. And if you want to say that you can do that, you have to be able to demonstrate that. And so you have to answer these questions, even if they feel invasive. And you can't really have it both ways. And I think that I. I liked the recognition of that fact and the refusal to.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah, this is an interesting setup here because, Linda, you kind of liked it. Kate, you really liked it. And I really was turned off by this movie. And I was one of those people who loved past lives and felt that it was tapping into this very old school way of thinking about love, like a love triangle, like something we've seen many, many times before, but doing so in such a different way. If you've seen past lives, I don't even know if you could technically call it a love trian. It's more so just like a movie about sort of lots of what ifs and what could have been. And that's what I love about that movie. And here I think Song is very much going back to a more traditional well, and that is not a. For me, that's not a fault in and of itself. Like, I love romantic comedies. I enjoy romantic dramas. I enjoy the will they and won't they of it all. But there was just something about this film. And I think I also very much appreciated the idea of putting all of this materialism to the forefront and really thinking about, like, how this all affects how we value ourselves. That's a huge part of this movie is, like, how we consider ourselves as valuable. Those questions were interesting and felt of the moment, whereas I felt as though the actual romance at the center was lacking. I don't think Dakota Johnson has the range that this, like, role requires. It requires her to go from being this very materialist person to eventually sort of softening herself. And I think the way it goes about that. We might talk about it later, but there is a sort of twist or like a conundrum that comes up about midway through the film that really kind of like sets in motion what's supposed to be her journey, her emotional journey to Me, it both signals a fault with the script and like how little there is to this character beyond her being a matchmaker who's very plain spoken about money. And then also just like what Dakota Johnson is able to do with this character. And so when we get the sort of big grandstanding I love you thing at the end, I just could not buy into it. And I will say, like, the way this ends, you know, more or less who she's going to end up with. It's very, very obvious who she chooses. And she does choose someone. This isn't a movie where, you know, she ends off, ends up with herself. So I'm curious, you know, how did this romance work for you both?

[Kate Young]

Like, I actually disagree about that softness. I don't think that there's softness in the end and I think that's kind of part of point. Right. The, the conversation that she has with Pedro Pascal about why they need to split is to me the other side of why she's choosing to be with Chris Evans. Not because like he is going to be able to provide her, you know, a 12 million dollar penthouse, but because she loves him. And that like the money matters and it matters a lot. But love doesn't not matter. It just, it matters a little less maybe, but it's still on the table. That's partly why I was just not on board. I'm like, okay, cool, it matters less. But like no money, the same as less money. And he has no money. So like, maybe let's not.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, but she also has no money. She says in that clip that we played in the intro that she makes $80,000 a year before taxes. Before taxes, before taxes. And she lives in New York City. I don't know that he's necessarily making that much less money than that. It would feel different to me if it was her saying, I don't want to have to support someone else who can't be self supporting. But it seems like what she's really saying is more like, I want someone to make it possible for me to live a rich person's life. I absolutely appreciate the plain spokenness of saying, like, I care about finances, I think about financial security. When I think about partners. Yeah, I'm less into like, I want you to be a multimillionaire. I think the movie sets up a lot of very interesting kind of questions about money and love, but I'm not sure where it actually comes down on those questions. And I think what you're saying, Kate, about the fact that you were rooting against this Couple. I think in a lot of ways, the movie is rooting against the couple, and the movie is making various points against the couple. And this is where we kind of get into the other thing that is kind of rubbing me the wrong way about this movie, which is seeing it promoted as a romantic comedy, which, in my opinion, it is not.

[Ayesha Harris]

It's more of a romantic drama, I would say.

[Linda Holmes]

I almost feel like the couple is getting together at the end of the movie just sort of. Because that's the kind of movie they're trying to make it be more than. Because it makes any sense.

[Ayesha Harris]

Right.

[Linda Holmes]

I don't understand how to square much of what happens with the movie with the ending, unless you just assume that it has very traditional ideas about romance and love. And, you know, money's not the most important thing to me. That's fine. It's a drama. It's a different kind of movie. But then you don't need, in some ways, the neatness of this ending, which is kind of the neat ending that belongs in a romantic comedy that has the pleasures of a romantic comedy that this, to me, doesn't have.

[Kate Young]

Yes, I agree with that. And again, like I said, I was rooting against them, and up until the very end, I thought that she would end up alone, and that would give her the opportunity to kind of meet someone somewhere in between the two of them who would be better suited to her. I agree. I did not want them together. Like, I'm sorry, but you cannot propose to me with a Daisy. I hate you.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah. I just found myself very confused by the Dakota Johnson character's entire MO. I do want to talk about sort of the midpoint, which, to me was kind of what made me throw my hands up in the air while watching this movie, which is, you know, she is a matchmaker. I will say one thing I do like about this film is that there are sort of like kind of Nora Ephronist montages where you have various clients, both men and women, who are giving Dakota Johnson's character, like, all their requirements for what they want. And she's like, you're being unrealistic. You're being sexist, you're being misogynist. Like, you want someone who is fit, and that really means, like, stick, skinny, whatever. I enjoyed those things. But then we also have a. We learn that she set up two clients together, and one of them had a very, very bad experience with that client. And it's supposed to be an emotional, like, connection that leads Dakota Johnson's character to suddenly realize that, like, she wants something more than just money. Again, I feel as though this is where the traditionalist instincts, I think, of this movie kind of fall flat for me. It's not just that she has to end up with someone at the end of this film, like it would, like a romantic comedy would. And this is also what makes it not a comedy, because I don't think a comedy would have put this plot line in it, this, like, B plotline in it. But also just like we're going back to this idea that the protagonist is going to suddenly have an emotional change of heart based on the trauma or the pain of a tertiary character. It felt very icky to me, and I didn't understand why that plotline would be there, except for the fact that, again, I do think this character is not written strongly.

[Linda Holmes]

I mean, I think that the role that that incident plays in the film, it's set up in the movie to be exactly as you say. It's sort of a moment that causes her to rethink. It's not clear to me whether she's, like, mostly rethinking her own personal life, in which case I'm not sure what it has to do with this decision, which is how it's framed as a decision between these two men.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah.

[Linda Holmes]

Neither one of whom is a bad, scary guy. So I'm not sure what it would have to do with that. Or is it about her rethinking her job? I'm not sure that they put it together in a way that fully makes sense. I don't really know for sure whether Dakota Johnson, at the end of the movie still kind of believes her own spiel or not. And I agree with Kate that a really promising thing to pursue would have been the idea that you don't actually have to choose between only two guys to, you know, a guy with very little financial security and a gazillionaire. That does not have to be the choice. There are a lot of people in the world that you can end up with, particularly if you look like Dakota Johnson. Come on, man. They create a bunch of really interesting pieces, one of which is like sort of semi dirtbag Chris Evans, which I think is a really promising direction, which I really like. Gosh, I think he's so charming. Would love to see him do more romantic comedy. Like, do more actual romantic comedy, which I think is really a potential strength for him. Tedro Pascal is such an interesting actor and has done so many interesting things. And I do think, like, there's some really interesting stuff about his insecurities and his feeling about kind of his masculinity and power in the world.

[Kate Young]

A lot of this performance is. Is the Pedro Pascal thing in that he's infinitely charming. He's gonna make you smile. You can't help yourself. But I think that there's also a level of vulnerability under there that I haven't seen in any of his roles. Granted, I haven't seen everything he's done, but I really appreciated that we got to see both the I'm very rich and I could have any woman I wanted. And also, maybe that wasn't always true, and I'm feeling kind of worried about it.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yes. Yes. I love that. Yeah.

[Kate Young]

It makes that character a lot more interesting than just the rich guy that she maybe wants to marry for money.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah. I think in that character, there's the seeds of something that could have been really, really elevated romantic drama. And it's just so both bizarre what we learn about him and what he's done to make himself not feel as.

[Linda Holmes]

Vulnerable, to make himself a unicorn as.

[Ayesha Harris]

She calls him, to make himself a unicorn. It kind of speak. Speaks to the fact that no matter how wealthy you are, we all have insecurities. They manifest in different ways. And money can help you alleviate those things in ways that they can't for those of us who do not have that kind of money.

[Kate Young]

I mean, specifically with the incident in the middle of the film, I didn't take that as change in her perspective on love so much as a change on her perspective of her job. She spends most of the movie straight up saying, like, people are assets and these are their values. And I think when this happens, she's kind of forced to do a hard stop that. Like, actually, no, they're people. And like, people, things happen to them. And, like, some of those people, things are bad.

[Ayesha Harris]

Yeah.

[Kate Young]

She can't, like, ignore that fact just because she's being asked to primarily focus on the finances. And I think that that is also partly why she heads right back on to Chris Evans, because, like, he's not gonna hurt her. To the best of our knowledge, they've already done this. They were together for five years. She knows that. She loves them. When they broke up the first time, she said that it's not that I don't love you, it's that we're broke. And I don't like that. I don't like being broke. It's not a fun experience for anyone. But I think that now that she's recognizing that, like, even with the finances, you're not safe, it Gives her a little bit more room to say, well, maybe these are other things that I can consider as well.

[Ayesha Harris]

I don't think this movie is good, but I do think it's fascinating. And I think that whatever its faults, it feels very of its time. It doesn't necessarily translate to, like, dramatic perfection in any way, in a way that, like, past lives does. I mean, come on. Teo Yoo and Greta Leigh have so much chemistry, and they are supposed to be on their laptops thousands of miles away on Skype, like, in that movie, in past lives. Like, they have so much chemistry that, like, is completely missing from this movie as much as I've heard. I do think it's very fascinating, a very fascinating misfire that I have really, like, enjoyed talking to you and other people about and wondering what happened.

[Linda Holmes]

This is one where it's really important for me in my own head to try to keep straight the feelings that I have about the film itself from the feelings that I have about the discussion of genre that has surrounded this movie and sometimes surrounds similar movies. The critic Thomas Lafley was talking on Blue sky and was talking about feeling really frustrated by people saying, like, oh, I like this movie. It's so much better than a romantic comedy.

[Ayesha Harris]

Who is saying that?

[Kate Young]

Yeah, who's saying that?

[Linda Holmes]

But it was like, it's this feeling of this movie, I think, is potentially having a little bit of elevationitis that you will hear about sometimes with genre where people are like, oh, it's elevated fantasy. It's elevated science fiction. And in this case, this is like an elevated romantic comedy. And unfortunately, like, that's kind of how it sounded when Dakota Johnson was talking about it.

[Ayesha Harris]

That's what they think they made, I think.

[Linda Holmes]

I don't wanna watch a romantic comedy made by people who don't like romantic comedies.

[Ayesha Harris]

But again, it's not a romantic comedy. It's a drama.

[Linda Holmes]

It's not. That's what I'm saying. Like, I find all of the external discussion about this film a lot more frustrating than I find the film itself. And I will say, listen, Chris Evans can propose to me with a daisy. I accept in advance.

[Kate Young]

I might take it from Pedro, but not from Chris.

[Ayesha Harris]

Kate and I will. We'll take Pedro. We'll enjoy that, obviously. Yes.

[Linda Holmes]

Also him. Yes, of course.

[Kate Young]

Yes, absolutely.

[Ayesha Harris]

Well, tell us what you think about materialists. Find us on [e-mail] PCHH and on [e-mail] NPRpopculture. We'll have a link to that in our episode description. And that brings us to the end of our show. Kate Young, Linda Holmes, thank you so much for being here.

[Linda Holmes]

Thank you my friend.

[Kate Young]

Thank you.

[Ayesha Harris]

And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. Please find out more at plus.NPR.org happyar or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathoma and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Kamin provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Ayesha Harris. We'll see you all next time. Time.

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