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- [00:00]
NPR Sponsor
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- [00:33]
Ayesha Harris
Anora recently cleaned up at this year's Oscars, winning five awards, including best picture. The movie follows an enterprising sex worker who links up with a very rich and very immature young man. And very quickly their transactional encounter turns into more, as in a quickie Vegas wedding.
- [00:51]
Glen Weldon
But there's one pretty big problem. Her new in laws are Russian oligarchs and they are livid and they'll do everything in their power to put an end to this whirlwind romance. Anora is now streaming on Hulu, so now's your time to catch up with the movie. If you missed it in theaters. I'm Glen Weldon.
- [01:06]
Ayesha Harris
And I'm Ayesha Harris. And today in this encore episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're talking about Anora.
- [01:16]
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- [03:18]
Ayesha Harris
Joining us today is film critic and senior film programmer at the Jacob Burns Film Center, Monica Castillo. Welcome back, Monica.
- [03:25]
Monica Castillo
Thank you for having me.
- [03:26]
Ayesha Harris
It's great to have you. I'm sure you have a lot to say about this movie. There's so much that happens.
- [03:30]
Monica Castillo
Thank you so much.
- [03:31]
Ayesha Harris
Yes. So Anora stars Mikey Madison as Annie, a dancer at a New York City nightclub. You might recognize Madison from her role as the eldest daughter on the excellent TV show Better Things Now. One evening, Annie's boss introduces her to an impish, immature dude named Ivan, AKA Vanya. He's played by Mark Adelstein. And Ivan is the spoiled son of oligarchs living a carefree bachelor life in one of his parents mansions while they're home in Russia.
- [04:01]
NPR Sponsor
I can speak Russian. I just prefer not to. But you can go ahead and speak him. I'll understand.
- [04:09]
Ayesha Harris
I don't understand what the. Oh, these accents. These accents. Okay. So he asked Annie to be his paid girlfriend for a week. They fly to Vegas on a private jet with his friends. Then they also decide on a whim to get hitched while there because of course, the news quickly gets back to Ivan's parents who send his three handlers to have the marriage annulled. They're played by Karin Karagulian, Yura Borisov and Vache Tovmasian. To say the least. Annie and Vanya don't make it easy for these guys to do their job. Chaos ensues. Honora is the latest feature from writer and director Shawn Baker, whose previous movies include Tangerine and the Florida Project. So, Monica, I'm gonna start with you. I have a sense of feeling that you were into this film. Tell us a little bit more about what you thought.
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Monica Castillo
I so enjoyed Shawn Baker's new movie. I think he's building on what we've seen before. He's using the kinetic energy of Tangerine, pulling on the heartstrings like he did in the Florida and continuing his sort of quest to create complicated movies for adult audiences. Honora feels like a Cinderella screwball comedy with a little mix of after hours, set and Brighton Beach. Yes, it zigs when you expect it to zag. It's so funny. It's tender, it's emotional. It's an impressive ensemble piece where every character, both lead and supporting, brings something to the table. I loved Baker's editing script. I love Drew Daniels cinematography, Mikey Madison's performance. I really can't say enough good things about Mikey Madison's. It's a zany, wild ride. And I enjoyed every minute of it.
- [05:45]
Ayesha Harris
Zany, wild ride. Perfect descriptor. Love it. Glenn, how about you? Did you enjoy the zaniness, the wildness, all of that?
- [05:54]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, I really did. I really liked this film. I wasn't necessarily set for a zany, wild ride, though. I didn't know what this film was doing until about halfway into it. Because you keep thinking this movie is going to take a darker and more violent turn. But its choice is to paint these Russian and Armenian handlers as kind of hapless sad sack lunks. And that's a choice I didn't trust. I kept thinking, what's gonna happen, though? The shoe's gonna drop. But spoiler alert, if you haven't seen this film yet, you can trust it. I mean, they're not quite like raising Arizona bad guys, but they're in the same ballpark. This movie does eventually go to a very dark emotional place in its final scene, which we can't really talk about, but up to that. It's exactly what Monica said. It's weirdly close to slapstick. It's an up all night comedy. But then I remembered this is kind of what this guy does, right? Tangerine Red Rocket, Florida project. I think we've been conditioned by genre films about or including sex workers and the organized crime to anticipate a certain level of violence or, you know, big changes that change everything forever. But those films are genre exercises and this one isn't. This isn't a crime thriller. It's a story that attempts to put us in the head of someone who's just trying to get by. So I had a good time watching it the first time. And I bet I enjoyed even more when I can watch it again knowing that no one's gonna get their head blown off. You know what I mean?
- [07:09]
Ayesha Harris
Yes. This sad, big like, does the dog die energy? Does anything really, really bad happen in this movie? And no, I don't think that's necessarily a spoiler to say, but I had the exact same reaction as you, Glenn. The fact that there is violence, but the violence is mostly comedic. And if I am remembering correctly, I don't think we ever see a single gun pulled out. Which I was just waiting for that because as you said, we're conditioned to think that. I mean, especially a movie involving a sex worker, but also just anything involving Russians, it's like of there's gonna be guns and whatnot. And what I really appreciated about this film is that underneath it all, it is a sort of rom com. You know, most of them end once you link up together. You get married. Of course, this is not what happens. The marriage happens in the middle of the film and then afterwards it's the slow unraveling. To me, I liken this movie to Sabrina Carpenter's short and sweet album, but dramatized specifically the song Lie to Girls. And the line is, you don't have to lie to girls. If they like you, they'll just lie to themselves. And I feel as though the Annie character is Sabrina Carpenter realizing that this guy that she married on a whim who she at first thought was like, oh yeah, we'll just have some fun, I'll get a lot of money out of this. And then slowly like realizes, oh man, this isn't what I thought it was gonna be. Like, what are my dreams? What are my hopes? And when you look at it as that, I think it's just a really fascinating, subversive way to think about relationships. You don't have to be a sex worker to be able to like sort of identify with being, you know, a 20 something year old person who's maybe falling in love for the first time and then having all of their hopes dashed in the worst way possible.
- [08:57]
Monica Castillo
Falling in love with the wrong person is probably a high mark of a lot of people's twenties, right?
- [09:02]
Glen Weldon
Absolutely.
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Ayesha Harris
Exactly. I mean, what do you think? Well, let's talk about these performances because I think it's just so well cast. Obviously, Mikey Madison, but also, let's be real, the character of Ivan, I wrote in my notes, oh my God, this kid is so annoying. He is so annoying. He's so perfectly cast. Like, what do we think of him? And just the way that Mark Edelstein is playing this character, I mean, he.
- [09:27]
Monica Castillo
Really matched, if not superseded her energy with just how goofy he is. I think about the moment where, you know, she meets up with him for the first time at his mansion, which is already super ridiculous. She's like, well, shall we get to it? And he's like, oh, yeah. And he immediately strips and then does a backflip into the bed. Who does that? Wait, what is going on? And it is just so funny and so out of pocket. He's sort of disarmingly charming. So I totally understood why Annie would fall or catch feelings for a guy who's so different than many of the men that she comes in contact with.
- [10:04]
Glen Weldon
Yeah. I mean, throughout this film, people keep denigrating and demeaning her. Not Ivan. Ivan is the one who doesn't. But because she's a sex worker, everyone around them assumes that her motives are purely financial. And the work that this film is doing is showing that Ivan is so goofy that she could convince herself she's in love with him and he with her.
- [10:24]
Ayesha Harris
And just the way that when you are that age, you just kind of dismiss it and you're like, oh, I mean, yeah, he likes his video games maybe a little too much, but it's okay. Like, he still loves me. Ivan, for all of his being a. I think he says at one point he might be in his early 20s.
- [10:41]
Monica Castillo
Yeah, 21, I think.
- [10:43]
Ayesha Harris
Also just constantly vaping and always playing video games.
- [10:45]
Monica Castillo
It's like not paying attention to her until. Oh, now.
- [10:49]
Ayesha Harris
Right, right. He's a man child, basically. But he's never really the villain either. Neither are really. I mean, obviously the henchmen, to some extent, they're kind of like Three Stooges in a way. But none of it feels too, too dangerous. And I like that about it. I also think Mikey Madison, as Annie is. She is doing the accent work. And I can feel as though if this was a different kind of movie, it would feel too broad. But it worked for me. Did it work for you?
- [11:18]
Monica Castillo
I kind of understood it as, like, I felt it more when she was performing in her job space where, you know, she's trying to sound welcoming or, you know, talk to guys to get them to come to the ATM to get extra cash. You know, it felt heavier, more emphasized in those moments. Whereas, like, when she's with her sister, I think as her roommate, it's a little bit more low key and less, like, noticeable. I really loved her performance. I loved how bold she is. I love how strong her character is.
- [11:52]
NPR Sponsor
You know, Jimmy, the girls and I.
- [11:54]
Monica Castillo
Have been talking, and if your cousin doesn't start showing us some respect, we're.
- [11:59]
NPR Sponsor
Not gonna tip out anymore.
- [12:00]
Monica Castillo
All right, I'll talk to him. I love that she can also still get vulnerable and, you know, get really hurt in this process. Mikey's given Such a range in this role to perform, and she knocks it out of the park in every single beat.
- [12:13]
Glen Weldon
Yeah. And she is bitterly disappointed in this film. But a cheaper or a pulpier or a more, I guess, genre inflected version of this movie would give her an arc that has a note of triumph in it. You know, if it was a rom com, she'd the guy and then have to deal with being with that guy. But in a different kind of movie, she would show everyone that she did it for love or that, you know, she gets some kind of agency or she gets the upper hand somehow. That's not what this film is. This film is not Pretty Woman. It's dark. And I like that this film has the courage of its convictions to kind of stay there on her and not give the audience a kind of cheap uplift at the end.
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Ayesha Harris
Yeah. You know, what it reminded me of, actually, is more like Knights of Kabiria, which in turn inspired Sweet Charity, the Broadway musical about a sex worker who is, like, very optimistic. And that's what Annie is to some extent, you could say, depending on how you feel about these things. It's either you're very optimistic or you are naive. But, like, whatever it is, there's heart at the root of this character, and it doesn't sort of sugarcoat how much her character is hurt. There's a lot of levity here. And, you know, I did actually rewatch Tangerine and Red Rocket after seeing this and then saw for the first time Starlet, a movie that Shawn Baker did earlier, before all of those, where, again, this is set in the world of pornography as Starlet is, and it's just kind of in the background. And again, he has built this track record of really just focusing on these worlds as if they're just another workplace area, just another part of life. After I watched Honora, I felt a little on the fence about how I felt the way it treated this. And was it too light in certain places? Did it not feel real? But then I caught myself and was just like, well, you know what? We have so many stories where these types of things end up very, very depressing. And maybe it's a fantasy, but maybe also it's a little bit truer to what a lot of people in this work experience, day to day, it's not all doom and gloom. And I don't know, that's something I'd be really happy about, I think.
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Monica Castillo
Right.
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Ayesha Harris
I guess my only cave is that I felt it was a little too long.
- [14:28]
Monica Castillo
Oh, I did not have that Problem. If anything, I was riveted because, I mean, throughout the film, this is very clearly also dealing with issues of class and different immigration generations. All the comments about Annie's Russian and whether or not she fits in and trying to be accepted by people from back home is a whole huge conversation that's just, like, mixed in. And that really comes into the foreground when the parents show up. And one of the first things that the mother says to her is, and you're rushing. It's terrible, you know? Yes, I really did enjoy that power struggle because there are moments where you think it's gonna go in one direction and then Baker does, like a fake out and then takes it somewhere else. And so that's where, you know, for me, I was still on the edge of my seat wondering, where was this gonna go? Is there an end? Where is it happening?
- [15:20]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, that's always gonna be a judgment call when it comes to the length of it, because wanted to hang out with these characters a lot. I mean, I was happy hanging out with these folks. But, man, when you were talking about is this film too light given its subject matter? That is something that really resonated with me because, you know, Sean Baker is on record saying sex work should be decriminalized. And his work attempts to show sex workers as people, real people who are deserving of being afforded the same dignity and respect and consideration and protections that other people get. And that's great. But this film does not land in theaters right now. In a vacuum. This film lands now when sex trafficking is in the news, whether it's the Diddy accusations and a lot of Christian anti trafficking films like Sound of Freedom.
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Ayesha Harris
Yes. Yeah.
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Glen Weldon
So I spent some of my time in the theater wondering how this film is gonna land in this landscape, if people are gonna try to use it to score political points. Because, as you say, it does show Honora making her own choices. They're often bad choices, but she's the one making them. She's not drugged and used. She isn't trafficked. She's working. And we aren't, I don't think meant to pity her. I don't think we're meant to see her as someone who needs rescuing. She's doing what she can to get by. The last thing I wanted from this film after two hours plus of it, was for it to adopt some kind of moral judgment which it didn't have in the preceding time. Does that make sense?
- [16:42]
Ayesha Harris
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I love that point about, you know, just how this lands in the era that we are in currently. It is the type of thing that I can see people using as a political tool. And I think that what I appreciate about this the most is the fact that, again, this just feels like human characters. There is no judgment other than that comes from his family and the henchmen. The other thing is that, like, the henchmen and the family aren't wrong. We should say all of this occurs over the course of like a week and a half, like maybe two weeks. So it is a very. A very short time period. Of course, it was not smart of them to get married after knowing each other a week. Like, what are we doing here? So they've also got a point. But. But at the heart of this, again, this is a story just about, like, two crazy kids falling in love, I guess, and then doing something stupid and having to face the repercussions of it. Do we have any final thoughts or anything we wanted to add? Anyone? We haven't talked about Monica. I'm curious if you had anything.
- [17:51]
Monica Castillo
I just wanted to sort of appreciate the setting itself, the choice of Brighton beach and the community of, like, Little Odessa, because it's a part of New York that doesn't often get to be seen outside of, like, James Gray movies and the occasional documentary. Yeah, it's such a fun little playground that it becomes especially. That's the sort of, like, after hoursque moment where they're going from venue to venue to venue in search of Vanya. It's so fun. It was really lovely to see that part of New York off the beaten path, off of the tourist recommendations. And they even stop at Tatiana's, which is one of the main restaurants right there on the boardwalk. Nice to see that the full Coney Island Brighton beach boardwalk was featured.
- [18:32]
Ayesha Harris
Yeah. And not in the summer, in the winter when it's, like, pretty desolate.
- [18:36]
Monica Castillo
Yeah. And they include all these cultural wink winks and nods to what's going on in that area too. Like, even the polar bear swimmers. There's a person who goes out and swims in January. That is a thing that happens. I love those. I love those little nods. And I love that he included so much of that spirit.
- [18:53]
Ayesha Harris
Well, this is definitely a talker. This is the type of movie that you will have a lot of thoughts on. So find us@facebook.com bchh and that brings us to the end of our show. Glenn Weldon, Monica Castillo. Thanks so much for being here.
- [19:07]
Monica Castillo
Thank you.
- [19:07]
NPR Sponsor
Thank you.
- [19:08]
Ayesha Harris
And this episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katsiff, our supervising producer. Is Jessica Reedy and hello Kamin provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all tomorrow.
- [19:25]
NPR Sponsor
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