Presence

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: "Presence" Episode Summary

Introduction

In the January 28, 2025 episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Glenn Weldon and Linda Holmes delve into Steven Soderbergh's latest film, "Presence." Joined by writer and critic Walter Chow, the trio explores the film's themes, technical execution, narrative structure, and cultural implications. This detailed discussion provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the movie, blending critical analysis with engaging conversation.

Plot Overview

Presence centers on a traditional haunted house narrative where a family relocates to an old, seemingly empty house, only to experience strange and eerie occurrences. However, Soderbergh introduces a unique twist: the story is narrated from the perspective of the ghost inhabiting the house. The family consists of:

• Mother: Portrayed by Lucy Liu, she is depicted as driven and hard-edged.
• Father: Played by Chris Sullivan, he is characterized as feckless and soft.
• Son: Eddie Mayday embodies the role of a jock bully who befriends the popular boy, West Mulholland.
• Daughter: Kalina Liang’s character, Chloe, is quiet and introspective, grappling with the recent death of a friend.

Glenn Weldon introduces the film by stating, “In Presence, we are the ones haunting the house” ([00:33]). This perspective sets the stage for a narrative that unfolds through the ghost's eyes, offering a fresh take on the haunted house trope.

Technical and Artistic Elements

Linda Holmes praises the film's technical prowess, particularly its cinematography and sound design. She explains, “The way that it's made, the way that it's shot... you see through this presence's eyes as it moves through the house” ([03:24]). Holmes appreciates the film’s use of POV shots and the strategic lack of a traditional score, which enhances the unsettling atmosphere.

The discussion highlights Soderbergh’s experimental approach:

• Cinematography: The use of lenses creates an off-kilter visual experience, reminiscent of the Blair Witch Project. Holmes remarks, “I have some interesting work with lenses here that just makes the picture a little bit more off kilter” ([04:10]).
• Sound Design: The minimalistic score and abundant quiet moments contribute to the film’s eerie vibe, allowing the visuals to take center stage.
• Single-Shot Scenes: Each segment of the film is treated as a single shot, ending abruptly with cuts to black before seamlessly transitioning to the next scene. Holmes compares this to a series of interconnected vignettes.

Script and Storytelling

Walter Chow provides a critical perspective on the screenplay, written by David Koepp. He describes the script as “quotidian” and “really dull,” feeling that the innovative visual techniques were employed in service of a lackluster narrative ([05:23]). Chow draws parallels to Koepp’s previous works, labeling him a “journeyman” of screenwriting—reliable yet sometimes uninspired.

Glenn Weldon echoes some of Chow’s sentiments, noting a disconnect between the film’s experimental style and its storytelling: “It starts with a mystery... and then resolves in a kind of pulpy genre way” ([07:35]). This shift from an artsy, character-driven study to a more conventional thriller leaves audiences potentially unsatisfied, as the initial promise of an esoteric narrative evolves into familiar horror tropes.

Representation and Casting

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the cultural implications of casting Lucy Liu as the mother. Walter Chow voices concerns about stereotyping, stating, “I have issues with the mother being Asian and being that stereotype of a dragon lady” ([12:57]). He critiques the character's portrayal as a “tiger mom” who prioritizes academic success, suggesting that it perpetuates harmful stereotypes.

Linda Holmes expands on this, acknowledging the contextual differences that casting brings: “It's like you cannot opt out of context... you may not have made the thing you thought you were making because you didn't cast Julia Garner” ([09:47]). She emphasizes the importance of thoughtful casting to avoid diminished character depth and reliance on cultural clichés.

POV Narrative in Film

The trio delves into the challenges and merits of using a first-person POV narrative in filmmaking. Glenn Weldon appreciates the innovative approach but notes its limitations: “With POV, you never get the reverse shot... the limitation is you never get it” ([11:21]). He explains that while POV can be immersive, it restricts the audience’s ability to see characters’ reactions and broader environmental context.

Walter Chow compares Presence to classic POV films like Lady in the Lake (1947) and contemporary experiments, arguing that Presence doesn't fully capitalize on the potential of its POV gimmick: “It's revolutionary technically... but has datedness to the script” ([19:16]). They agree that while Soderbergh’s technical experimentation is commendable, it sometimes overshadows the narrative strength.

Overall Impressions

The hosts and guest express mixed feelings about Presence. Linda Holmes admires the directorial and cinematographic elements but feels the script falls short of its potential: “I’m not convinced that I like the script, but I think the script is fine” ([09:24]).

Walter Chow concurs, appreciating the film as an experiment but ultimately deeming it a “failed film” in terms of genre execution ([07:35]). He suggests that the film might have benefited more as a short film or an entirely experimental piece rather than a feature-length horror thriller.

Glenn Weldon maintains a balanced stance, recognizing the film’s technical achievements while expressing disappointment in its narrative resolution: “I went into this hoping for it to be a different kind of artsy, fartsier film than it turns out to be” ([07:35]).

Conclusion

Presence emerges as a technically ambitious film that pushes the boundaries of POV storytelling in horror. While Steven Soderbergh's direction and innovative cinematography receive commendation, the film's narrative and character development reveal shortcomings, particularly in avoiding stereotypical representations and maintaining an engaging storyline. The discussion among Glenn Weldon, Linda Holmes, and Walter Chow offers a nuanced critique, highlighting the delicate balance between experimental film techniques and compelling storytelling. For fans of Soderbergh and those intrigued by unique narrative perspectives, Presence presents an interesting, albeit imperfect, cinematic experience.

Notable Quotes

• Glenn Weldon [00:33]: “In Presence, we are the ones haunting the house.”
• Linda Holmes [03:24]: “You see through this presence's eyes as it moves through the house... a little more off kilter.”
• Walter Chow [05:23]: “The script is so quotidian. It's so, like, really dull.”
• Linda Holmes [09:47]: “You cannot opt out of context... you may not have made the thing you thought you were making because you didn't cast Julia Garner.”
• Glenn Weldon [11:21]: “With POV, you never get the reverse shot... the limitation is you never get it.”
• Walter Chow [19:16]: “It's revolutionary technically... but has datedness to the script.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour offers a thorough examination of Presence, balancing praise for its technical innovations with critical insights into its narrative execution and cultural representation. Whether you're a fan of Soderbergh or interested in the dynamics of POV storytelling, this discussion provides valuable perspectives to consider.

Transcript

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Sony Pictures Classics. I'm still here from filmmaker Walter Salas is the true story of one family's resilience when a dictatorship attempts to tear them apart. Led by a Golden Globe winning performance by Fernanda Torres, now playing select cities.

[Glenn Weldon]

In the new Steven Soderbergh film Presence. A family moves into an old house and weird stuff starts happening. That is a pretty standard haunted house story on paper.

[Linda Holmes]

But what's different here is that we're the ones haunting the house in question because this is a ghost story told from the point of view of the ghost. I'm Linda Holmes.

[Glenn Weldon]

And I'm Glenn Weldon. And today we're talking about presents on Pop Culture Happy hour from npr.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

This message comes from Redfin. With the Redfin app, you'll know the moment your next place hits the market. Whether you're looking to buy your dream home or rent a sweet apartment, give Redfin your gotta have it wish list of property features and you'll receive real time notifications tailored just for you, ready to see it up close and personal scheduling a tour is just a tap away and don't wait to find your perfect match. Download the Redfin app and start searching today.

This message comes from Grainger. As a maintenance specialist for a historic high rise, you know that vintage charm historically needs constant attention. Which is why when it's time to upgrade turn of the century mechanicals, they turn to Grainger. With easy access to a million plus products and the scale to deliver when and where you need them. The right tools and supplies are never far away. So you can keep that vintage building running like new. Call click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

This message comes from CarMax. Boldly searching for your next used vehicle. With CarMax, you don't have to settle on anything when it comes to your ride. Instead, steer clear of the ordinary and buy the car that's right for you. Because CarMax makes it easy to stop settling and find a car you'll love today. Start shopping [e-mail] CarMax the way car buying should be.

[Glenn Weldon]

Joining us today is writer and critic Walter Chow. Welcome back, Walter.

[Walter Chow]

Thanks for having me.

[Glenn Weldon]

Of course. Let's get to it. In presents we are a ghost roaming an empty old house. When a new family moves in, we watch them. The mother, played by Lucy Liu. The dad, played by Chris Sullivan. The son, played by Eddie Mayday. And the quiet, introspective daughter, played by Kalina Liang. We only get glimpses of this family, but gradually we start to piece together their brittle dynamic. Mom is driven and hard edged, dad is feckless and soft. And the son's a jock bully who's befriended the popular boy in school, played by West Mulholland.

[Linda Holmes]

West Mulholland.

[Glenn Weldon]

The wonderfully named West Mulholland. But for some reason, we take a particular interest in the daughter, Chloe, who is dealing with recent death of a friend. The precise nature of that interest, is it threatening? Is it protective? Is it something else? Is one of the mysteries at the heart of Presence, which is in theaters now. Lynn, to kick us off, would you make a presence?

[Linda Holmes]

I really liked this. To me it was all vibes, like the script is fine. I enjoyed the story. But what I really liked about this movie is the way that it's made, the way that it's shot. And when you said we are the ghost, I just wanna clarify, like what that means in this case is it's all POV stuff. So this presence that they're all afraid of is the eyes that you're looking out of. You see through this presence's eyes as it kind of moves through the house or looks out the windows. And I did find that sort of interesting. There's also some interesting work with lenses here that just makes the picture a little, to me, a little bit more off kilter. And I also really liked how it is scored, which is to say large parts of it are not scored.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right.

[Linda Holmes]

You do have a lot of quiet. And essentially each. It's a. It's like a series of little scenes each. But each section is one shot. And then at the end of that little piece, which might be anything from a few seconds to longer than that, it goes hard to black and then it picks up again. One of the things this reminded me of was Blair Witch a little bit. What I liked about the Blair Witch Project when I first saw it ages and ages and ages ago, before four gazillion found footage horror movies.

[Glenn Weldon]

Sure.

[Linda Holmes]

I liked the fact that it had that feeling of actually being a little more lived in.

[Walter Chow]

Okay, maybe you.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Maybe you and me talk later.

[Walter Chow]

At first I just sensed it and then things moved.

[Glenn Weldon]

Moved?

[Linda Holmes]

Yes.

[Walter Chow]

What things? A lot of things.

[Linda Holmes]

I saw it. You saw it?

[Glenn Weldon]

You saw things move?

[Linda Holmes]

I saw the aftermath. So Listen, is the story here, you know, like, completely amazing? Maybe not, but I very much enjoyed being in the presence of. I don't even know if I would call it a horror movie. I think it's a scary movie. I think it's an unsettling mov.

[Glenn Weldon]

So, yeah. So you're going on vibes, Walter. How are the vibes for you?

[Walter Chow]

I agree with everything Elinda said. You know, I was really into it initially. I was like, this is a great experiment from one of our great kind of experimenters. I really think Soderbergh is fascinated with film language and how to manipulate it. Right. I mean, he's so good at it. He's so brilliant. As a horror movie fanatic, I don't feel a real love of the genre from him, just that the script is so quotidian. It's so, like, really dull, I thought so. The style, this really brilliant sort of approach to it, I think was in the service of something that wasn't interesting to the point of actually turning me against the film ultimately. And I'm thinking of another movie that kind of makes really interesting use of the POV thing. Nickel Boys.

[Linda Holmes]

Yes, I thought about that, too.

[Walter Chow]

Yeah. And I think it's really interesting that they're both coming out in such close proximity with each other. And I wonder if that's a cultural thing or if it's a technical, logical thing, like we're thinking about VR and we're thinking about, you know, how do we begin to tell stories in a different way? Maybe Presence becomes a more interesting film in many ways, you know, than a fully successful film in whatever genre it's attempting. But I always appreciate Soderbergh's experiments, let's say. You know, I think I hear a little bit of that from Linda, although you liked it more than I did. But. But I think we can agree that it's really. You ought to see it. It's interesting, you know. You know, when you reference Blair Witch, I. I love that. I think Blair Witch is the. One of the most influential, perhaps the most influential modern horror film just because of what you said. You know, there's 10 billion movies that try to do what it did. Probably will be true of presidents and Nickel Boys as well, that more people will begin to experiment with point of view in films. And that makes sense to me. It reminded me of when I was a kid and I used to play those old Infocom games. But, you know, it feels like that where you're walking north, south, you know, west, left, and you hear conversations and you move in and out and that's what the film kind of feels like. And those are the best moments for me when it's like, okay, you're developing a different vocabulary here. You're developing a new way to tell stories here. And it reminds me of ancient technology in a strange way. But, yeah, I think it's a good experiment, but maybe a failed film.

[Glenn Weldon]

Okay, that's interesting. I hear what you both are saying. I come down, I don't know, somewhere in the middle, maybe. I know what I'm about to say is gonna sound pretentious, but I don't care anymore because that ship has sailed. I've made my peace with that. But in the early going of this film, film, it seemed like it was a different movie than it becomes. It seemed like it was a lot more character study of this family. More esoteric, more, frankly, arthousy, more in line with what I think is a very similar film, a ghost story by David Lowery. That's when I was really getting into it. I was getting a portrait of this family. It was incomplete. And I liked how incomplete it was because I felt like it was realistically incomplete. And that made me think about, why are we getting these scenes and not these other scenes? And, like, what is the connection? Why is there some kind of emotional through line or psychological through line? Then the film starts to drop these big narratively driven hints. And when it resolves in a kind of, I would say, pulpy genre way. And look, I'm. This is me talking. I love genre. But like, I felt like the contract I had signed with this film was to get something kind of allusive and esoteric and appealing to what my dad used to call my artsy fartsiness. And it kind of resolved into something which. This is the problem we're all having. Is it more thriller territory? Yeah, I couldn't quite pinpoint.

[Linda Holmes]

So I was sort of poking around about this movie because, as I said, I loved the way it was directed and shot. I was less enthralled with the script. And the script is by David Koepp. And when I saw that name, I was like, that does not mean a whole lot to me. I'm sure it does to other people. But if you do not know who David Koepp is, David Koepp either wrote or co wrote. Let me give you a partial list. Death Becomes Her, Jurassic Park, Carlito's Way, Mission Impossible, panic room, the 2002 Spider man, war of the Worlds. He directed Mordecai. Okay, the thing about this guy is. My reaction to that list, is journeyman, right?

[Glenn Weldon]

Sure.

[Linda Holmes]

In the truest sense. A guy who knows how to write movies that get made. And in many cases, although not all cases make money, some are really well regarded, at least up to a point. Like Panic Room, I think, is a great movie. I think it's really interesting that he wrote Panic Room. That's the one that made me think, oh, interesting. And it's fascinating to me that I think this script is serviceable. Do you know what I mean? Like, and I think it is not much more or less than serviceable. I don't think it's great, but I think it is a frame on which Soderbergh is able to hang a lot of visual experimenting that I did. Like, I did. Like, at the first moment, I was like, oh, wait, we're the thing, because we're hiding in the closet, right? And I was like, yeah, this is sort of cool. I did think there was a little more maybe to the family story than you did, Glenn. I think this idea that there are these two dyads where kind of the father and the daughter are aligned and the mother and the son are aligned is a kind of a complicated dynamic. I did feel it veering into the same. Like, as you kind of mentioned in the intro, you know, mom is hard charging and dad is soft and cares about the kids, which is also what we ran into with Wolfman, which I didn't think they went anywhere with. It's an interesting kind of shift. So, like, I'm not convinced that I like the script, but I think the script is, like, fine.

[Walter Chow]

Well, I love that you use the term serviceable, Linda. I love that you say that, because I think it's audience service. It makes itself a puzzle box when I think it's not necessary. We don't have to have all of the pieces put together for us, because.

[Linda Holmes]

There is an answer eventually to why this ghost is there and what the ghost's origins are. And it's interesting to contemplate. Like, did they really need that? Or could it just have been the house has a ghost?

[Walter Chow]

Yeah. To Glenn's point, you don't need to. Please don't tie all the strings together.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah.

[Walter Chow]

Things don't have to be so related to one another, you know, all the time.

[Glenn Weldon]

And that's why I'm willing to give this film some benefit of the doubt. Because, I mean, it starts with a mystery. It starts with questions. We eventually get the answer. Answers are always less intriguing than mysteries. Answers are always a lot less Fun. So. But to that point, though, I went into this hoping for it to be a different kind of artsy, fartsier film than it turns out to be. But plenty of folks are going to go into this film, given the marketing, given the title, expecting it to scratch that horror thriller itch that it eventually does, but, boy, it takes a long time to do that. So are they going to come out of this film as kind of weirdly unsatisfied as I was?

[Walter Chow]

I think so. You know, I don't think that it actually does very well as a horror film either. It's very conventional and, you know, it's very David kept. You know, there are exceptions to Linda's point, and Panic Room actually is a very close, to me, analog to this movie. You know, the way that the camera moves. Right. And Panic Room is revolutionary for its time. You know, for all time. And it goes through walls. It goes up and down.

[Linda Holmes]

And it's Fincher, who, of course, is also really experimental with camera.

[Walter Chow]

Oh, my go. Absolutely. Absolutely. And this idea of the camera being not omniscient, necessarily, but omnipresent, like able to move through the window. In Citizen Kane or whatever, you're going through solid objects. And there's actually something very old about all of this stuff. You know, even the script. I have. I frankly have issues with the mother being Asian and being that stereotype of a dragon lady who's very interested in academics.

[Glenn Weldon]

I was worrying. I was being predictably NPR over here, wringing my hands, worrying if the film is casting the Lucy Liu character as a kind of stereotyp. Typical tiger mom. So talk, Seymour.

[Walter Chow]

Yeah. And I know that you asked me to be on before any of us had seen it.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Walter Chow]

So I'm not taking it that way. But I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. Not me again. Not me having to say this again. But here's Lucy Liu, who. Who's great, I adore, and, you know, I adored her mostly in that show elementary, where she plays Watson. She's brilliant doctor and she's an equal to Shel. Anyway, she, in this movie is. She wants to move in the house just because it's the right school district. She cares about the. The sun more because Asians, you know, number one son, she kind of overlooks the shortcomings. You know, the family dynamics that were presented are the rotten core of the serviceable apple.

[Linda Holmes]

Yeah, I get that.

[Walter Chow]

What is missing here? You know, Are we missing the gay best friend who's funny?

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah.

[Walter Chow]

Are we missing the. The black friend who dies first, what are we missing here in the list of white guys writing a movie with iversity. And it probably begins with good intentions. It's like, let's move family, you know? You know, really good for this is Lucy Liu. Yeah, let's put her. You know, it would be totally different if it was Julia Garner. It would totally be different if it was a white woman. But, you know, if it's a Desi woman, if it's a black woman, if it's a Chinese woman, these things are different now. And you gotta be really so careful.

[Linda Holmes]

Right, right. The thing about it is, as you just said, it would be different if it was Julia Garner. And as I said, I just watched this done with Julia Garner and didn't like it. And it sort of had a somewhat similar, you know, mom can't emotionally connect with the kids if they were to say, oh, no, but when we wrote it, we didn't know who it was gonna be. It doesn't matter because it's like you say, you cannot opt out of context. It's just a matter of you have to look at. You know, Glenn has said many times, I'm not interested in the thing you thought you made. I'm interested in the thing you actually made. And you have to be able to gain that perspective and say, when I look at this in this context that we all have to acknowledge exists, I may not have made the thing I thought I was making because I didn't cast Julia Garner. And you don't want to make that a sort of like a peril of casting anybody who's not a white woman. Like, it's not that. It's just that maybe it would have done to, like, once you cast Lucy Liu, maybe there are ways to reconfigure the story, because I don't think it needs the stuff about the school district. And I don't understand, like, I don't think any of that is critical to the story at all. I will say from a very simple perspective, I was really happy to see her in, like, a high profile project. But I can't argue with anything that you're saying, certainly about the way that she's deployed in this.

[Walter Chow]

I totally agree about Lucy Liu. I want to see her in lots of stuff, but I want to see her as smart and reasonable. And, you know, why is it the only time I get to see Lucy Liu in a major production is she knows martial arts or she's a dragon lady? Why is that? And that's painful a little bit. To see opportunity lost Maybe it's like, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to feel like. I don't want to seem as though I'm. My bloomers are all in a kerfuffle over this. No, I just feel like it's a little bit easy. You didn't think it through. You didn't think you had to. You know, you were focused on this other stuff, and you didn't think this mattered. But it does matter.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah, absolutely, it does. And the other thing is that details like that are inessential to what's going on in this film in a way that at first it was kind of intriguing, where we get a lot of things that are kind of hanging out along the edges of this film, and when they start to resolve, it feels a little pat. It feels a little tied up. But going back to the approach here, now, this film is 85 minutes long, and you both mentioned this. Soderbergh has talked in the past about how he doesn't think historically that POV narrative films work. Because he says, we always want to see the reverse shot. We always want to see if we're the character that's looking around. We want to see how our character is reacting to what's happening. And we're always waiting to get that reverse shot. And the limitation of a POV is you never get it. And then he said, with respect to this film, I think it works here. I hope it works here, because we can't get a reverse shot because we're a ghost. If we did turn the camera around, we wouldn't see anything. So that kind of feels like it kind of obviates that. But I do think he's right that POV works in small batches when there isn't much time for us to kind of chafe against the fact that our gaze is being so explicitly directed. Right. Because when you watch a film, your gaze is being directed at anyway, but it's a passive project. And when you do pov, though, there is this illusion of volition. There's this illusion that we're the ones turning our head and looking at things X, Y and Z. And the less opportunity you give an audience to say, that's not what I would be looking at. That's not the conversation I would be eavesdropping on. The less opportunity you give them to do that, I think the more effective it is. So I think the 85 minutes works to this film's favorite.

[Linda Holmes]

I think that's true. I thought it was skillful the way that the ghost takes on a certain character because you can sort of see how when the ghost is nervous and when the ghost is upset and when the ghost is sort of concerned in a way, just from the way the camera's used. I admire that. I think that's really cool. It's interesting. It's a real strong and getting stronger as I think about it. Difference between how I feel about the writing and how I feel about the directing and cinematography.

[Walter Chow]

Yeah. You know, I so agree about the running time that I think it would be kind of effective as a short film, you know, if we're doing like a 10 minute thing. That's really interesting and that's almost enough when you watch some experimental cinemas, like, you know, Stan Brackets used to put like moth wings on exposed film and. And it's much more interesting to talk about than it is to watch.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah.

[Walter Chow]

So, you know, I think maybe that, you know, the shorter the better. It's really a smart idea just, you know, trying to give it this resolution. They're trying to pack it into a genre is the mistake. You know, I don't want people to misunderstand that. I need this to be horror. I need to understand what opposite, you know, kind of to what you were saying, Glenn, is like, I want it to be unidentifiable. I want it to be amorphous, you know, like Ghost Story is. Is that a romance? Is that a horror film? Is that. No. I don't know. It's about grief, I guess it's about loneliness. Right. It is revolutionary technically. But you. You know, this actually reminds me of a movie from 1947 called lady in the Lake.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah.

[Walter Chow]

You know, it's a Phil Marlowe movie, directed and starring Robert Montgomery. And it's all done in first person. You never get to see Marlo in the course of that film. He's. He. He's the camera. I am the camera. Right. And so we've been in this ground before, so really what's appealing is new technologies and this digital ability. And he says that he used martial arts footwear or something to sneak around the house, which also is pinging with me a little bit with the kind of like. We're not all stealthy, Stephen. Anyway, I applaud and the right footwear, but for the thing that it's filming to be so old, so elderly and creaky, it's like the scary. Kids want the scary. So, you know what's the scariest right now it's fentanyl. You know, something. Something crazy. Rip it from the headline, Stephen, you go, David. And I feel like there's a real lack of care in that. There's like a real, I think, datedness to, to this, the sell by date for the script decades ago. And at this moment, it's so stark, the difference between the technology used to film it and what's actually been filmed. The best is when there's vibes and the worst is when you actually think about what the story is, which is, oh, boy. Oh no.

[Glenn Weldon]

There is also the context of previous Soderbergh films and this experience of watching a Soderbergh film and being like, that's a great approach. That's a great technique. I'm not sure if the story works, like timecode, for example. Great approach, great technique. Not sure the story works. I mean, that's, you know, that's not the first time. So there's in Hollywood datedness here and there's also a kind of director repeating themselves kind of datedness here. But we want to know what you think about presence. Find us on [e-mail] PCHH and on Letterboxd, no [e-mail] NPRpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description that brings us to the end of our show. Walter Chow, Linda Holmes, thank you so much for being here.

[Walter Chow]

So happy to be here.

[Linda Holmes]

Thank you, Glenn. I would never haunt you.

[Walter Chow]

I would haunt the heck out of you.

[Glenn Weldon]

I don't want either thing. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Leonard Sherburn and edited by Mike Katsif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. And hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.

[Walter Chow]

Foreign.

[Sponsor Announcer]

This message comes from Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to mintmobile.com Switch this message comes from Warby Parker. Prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Glasses designed in house from premium materials starting at just $95, including prescription lenses. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. This message comes from Bombas. Socks, underwear and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombas makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.