Loading summary
Transcript86 lines
- [00:00]
Advertiser
This message comes from eHarmony have you ever wondered if there's a better way to gauge your compatibility with other people on dating apps? EHarmony has, which is why their compatibility quiz makes your personality the star of your profile. Get who gets you with eHarmony?
- [00:20]
Stephen Thompson
The Korean drama Squid Game became a global sensation when it dropped three years ago. The show, which became the most popular offering in Netflix's history, combines pitch black satire of late stage capitalism with bloody violence. I'm Stephen Thompson and today we are talking about the second season of Squid Game on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr.
- [00:46]
Advertiser
This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from eHarmony Authenticity is one of the keys to any relationship, and eHarmony believes that the conversations you have should reflect your uniqueness. That's why eHarmony doesn't allow members to copy and paste their first messages in the app so you can have conversations where you and your matches actually get to know each other. EHarmony is building a community of people who are also putting in the effort. Sign up and get who gets you on eHarmony.
- [01:27]
Stephen Thompson
This message comes from Noom. Using psychology and biology to build personal meal plans to fit your lifestyle, taking into account dietary restrictions, medical issues and other personal needs with daily lessons that are personalized to you and your goals, Noom's flexible program focuses on progress instead of perfection to help you build new habits for a healthier lifestyle. Sign up for your trial today@noom.com this.
- [01:55]
Advertiser
Message comes from Bombas. Their slippers are designed with cushioning so every step feels marshmallowy soft. Plus, for every item purchased, Bombas donates to someone in need. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first order.
- [02:12]
Stephen Thompson
Joining me today is Jaeha Kim. She's a syndicated columnist whose work runs in the Chicago Tribune. Welcome Jaeha.
- [02:17]
Jaeha Kim
Hi Steven. Thank you for having me.
- [02:19]
Stephen Thompson
Also with us is Janet Wujong Lee. She's a producer on NPR's Education Desk. Welcome back, Janet.
- [02:25]
Janet Wujong Lee
Thank you. Excited to be here.
- [02:26]
Stephen Thompson
So Squid Game's first season won six Emmys, spawned countless Halloween costumes, and even spun off a deeply ill conceived reality competition show in which, thankfully, no one was gunned down in cold blood. So it's only natural that Hwang Dong Hyuk, who wrote and directed. Season one has made a second season, with a third scheduled to drop sometime in 2025. It's hard to discuss season two without spoiling elements of season one, so consider yourselves warned. In season one, we meet Seung Gi Hu, who's deep in debt and estranged from his family. He's recruited by a mysterious stranger on a subway platform and soon winds up in an undisclosed location, one of 456 participants in a massive competition. They must play children's games against each other, at which point it becomes abundantly clear that those who lose are slaughtered in brutal fashion. At the end of season one, Gi Hun wins the game and with it, a massive cash prize. But he's haunted by what he's seen, and he pledges to get revenge on behalf of the people who've lost their lives. Naturally, and this isn't a major spoiler, Gi Hun winds up sucked back into the games, where he must fight for his life, rally new players to his cause, and try to destroy the system from the inside. And his efforts are complicated by the presence of the frontman, played by Lee Byung Hun. He's posing as a player in echoes of the first season. Season 2 of squid game is streaming on Netflix now. Jae Ha, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of this new season?
- [03:56]
Jaeha Kim
I thought the season was very good. I know that some people are saying, oh, we didn't need a season two and actually that's what I said when I was last on talking about Squid Game. I thought the ending was pretty perfect three years ago. But with that said, the director, Mr. Huang, does bring about a lot of new aspects to the show that I think viewers will find intriguing. And it's not just boom, boom, everyone's going to die. There's a lot going on there that we can unpack.
- [04:23]
Stephen Thompson
How about you, Janet?
- [04:24]
Janet Wujong Lee
I feel bad now because that was very generous of you. I'm gonna be honest, I was a little disappointed. I think I am still working through some mixed feelings. The highs, I would agree with you, Taeya. I think there are a lot of new elements that really worked for me. Some twists in the games and I think when we're back in the games, actually I'm just as into it and locked in as I was in season one. The lows. I wasn't as big of a fan as the the main plotline of this season, Gi Hun trying to bring down the frontman and shut down the games. I think the pacing was a little off. I think it dragged a little bit. They spend roughly three episodes kind of setting this all up. And then I can't be the only person here who finished it and then looked up how many episodes are in Squid Game because I couldn't believe that that's how it ended. Right?
- [05:13]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah. And I kind of come down right in between the two of you. I think that in general, I felt like this season doesn't feel superflu. I understand people who felt like it ended perfectly with season one and there was no need to do more. I mean, Hwang has said in interviews that he basically did seasons two and three to make the money he should have made on season one, which tells you something about the system that this show is commenting on. I do think it feels like it has a reason to exist. I agree with Janet that there are several episodes that feel really misshapen. My biggest issues with this season are with the first episode and the last episode, where the first episode, to me just takes way too long to get going when you only have seven episodes in a season. Spending this much time on throat clearing felt, it felt in a way, both padded and rushed. The last episode, it kind of devolves into fairly repetitious violence that to me is nowhere near as compelling as a lot of the stuff that you're getting in the context of these games. I do appreciate, and kind of the next thing I wanted to talk about is I did appreciate how quick this show got me hooked on a bunch of new characters because, you know, Gi Hun goes back into the games and of course he's now one of 456 people and you have to suddenly meet and become invested in a whole bunch of new people and they introduce like a really creepy rapper. They introduce a crypto bro and his pregnant ex and kind of the repercussions of this crypto scam gone awry. There's a trans woman who's looking to find her transition and move to Thailand. There's a debtor whose mother winds up in the games with him. There are a lot of these really compelling storylines that aren't taking you out of the central plot, but are introducing new people to become invested in and care about. Did you guys have favorites among those?
- [07:17]
Jaeha Kim
For me, my favorite was Hyunjoo, the trans woman. I love that she was presented as a full fledged character instead of a farce or a stereotype, which Korean dramas have been, you know, known to do this with members of the LGBTQ community. I know that there was a lot of controversy about them not hiring a trans actress to play the role that Park Sung Hoon played. But, you know, one of the things that was brought up is there are very few openly out trans actresses in South Korea right now. I'm hoping that, you know, that this character kind of opened the door for more opportunities for actual trans actresses or trans actors to tackle these type of roles. But I do think it was an important inclusion in this season. I really enjoyed who she was as well, because she wasn't just like one of the women that didn't know what to do. She turned out to be one of the heroes, in my opinion.
- [08:13]
Stephen Thompson
Absolutely. And she's not defined entirely by her transness. She's also, as you say, a full fledged character and a heroic one, and one who's very brave and bold and strategic. Definitely one of the people in whom I'm deeply invested.
- [08:28]
Jaeha Kim
Yes.
- [08:29]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah. And especially at the end, we learned that she was like an ex military.
- [08:35]
Jaeha Kim
Special Forces.
- [08:36]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah, Special Forces too. Which in Korea, that's like a whole other deal for those who have to serve in mandatory military service to be like, I served in the special Forces. Yeah. I also really, really loved Hyunji's plotline. I think the other one that I would probably add, it's also kind of a dynamic we didn't see in the first season. The mother son pairing. Oh man, the moment they showed up on screen, I knew they were going to be the ones to make me cry. And they sure did. I've been a fan of Yang Dong Eun, the actor who plays Young Sik for a while. He's also a really talented rapper and hip hop artist. So I was first really interested in seeing him in the show in general. But I was really, really, really moved by the performance of Kang Ye Shim, the actor who plays his mom, Kim Ja. What a phenomenal like pairing. Their chemistry I thought was incredible, which I also want to point out kind of represents a lot of, I say, Korean moms, like in her age range towards her son and specifically son, kind of coming from that patriarchal society South Korea comes from, that he could do nothing wrong. She's literally in the games to pay off his debt. And there's one scene when the frontman questions her son's morals and that he might have left her behind or gave up on her in a game, that she might have lost her life. And that's the only time where she speaks up and says, do not think ill of my son. And not just to the front man, but once they reunite at the end of that round of the games, she actually comforts him and Tells him that you did nothing wrong. And she wants everyone, including her son, to think that he did nothing wrong and to think nothing ill of himself. That scene just broke me into pieces.
- [10:26]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah. That performance by Gang Ah Shim as the mother is really. It is a remarkable performance. And, you know, one thing that the creator of the show was saying that kind of in between season one and season two, you know, he had a hard time, in some cases, casting roles that he wanted in season one.
- [10:44]
Janet Wujong Lee
Right.
- [10:45]
Stephen Thompson
And then it became this massive global phenomenon, and he would to sort of get everyone he wanted. Suddenly, Squid Game season one opened all these doors, and there are some truly magnificent actors on this season, and she is one of them that I just kept fixing on her face. And while we're talking about things that work really well in the season or that I really appreciated about this season, let's pause to give thanks for the fact that there are no appearances by American VIPs.
- [11:18]
Jaeha Kim
Yes.
- [11:20]
Stephen Thompson
There's, like, an entire episode of season one that is, like, completely derailed by the presence of these Americans who are, like, watching the games.
- [11:29]
Jaeha Kim
I was like this, like, no, please don't pop on again. I think they were universally disliked, not just because of who they were and the characters, but because of the poor acting.
- [11:39]
Stephen Thompson
Well, and to be fair to those actors, I'm not sure the English language screenwriting was as strong as the Korean language screenwriting.
- [11:48]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah, this is true.
- [11:49]
Jaeha Kim
If the VIP show up next season, that it's with better acting and lines and actors, and actually, I'm hoping they don't appear at all.
- [11:57]
Stephen Thompson
But I was gonna say they could just hang out in season one.
- [12:00]
Jaeha Kim
That's right.
- [12:01]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah. I guess instead, this season, we got to hear a little bit more about the staff who work for the show.
- [12:08]
Stephen Thompson
Yes.
- [12:09]
Jaeha Kim
Yeah.
- [12:09]
Stephen Thompson
Another twist I liked.
- [12:11]
Jaeha Kim
I really love seeing how Noelle appeared in this, because at first I just thought, oh, she's the North Korean defector, so of course she's gonna be competing to. To get her baby out of Korea. And then when it turned out that, you know, she had the pink suit on and the mask, I was like, what is going on here? And she had such depth to her that I can't figure out why she's there. Like, is she a good person? Is she a bad person? Is she a little bit of both? Is she just doing whatever she needs to to get what she needs? I thought she was an intriguing character.
- [12:43]
Janet Wujong Lee
In terms of learning about the folks behind the show. It's interesting because I think it built up a little bit about how, including do the North Korean sniper as well as the frontman in certain way telling us, like, at the end of the day, both of them are in different ways, victims of the same system as the players. But they took a very different route, I guess, in responding to that. When I got to learn more about the frontman's, like, backstory of losing his wife, you know, that chilling scene of him telling the story in present tense as if he's going back to his wife. Right, right. I felt a little bit of hope that maybe that Giuhn can pull all this together in a way that he can reunite all forces. But then with the way the season went and sort of how even the crowd that's playing the game being so divided through this new voting system, I think I had, like, bit of mixed feelings about how it was all going.
- [13:39]
Jaeha Kim
There's still a lot to tie up. There's, like, loose ends everywhere that I think viewers want to have, like you were saying, some kind of closure with at least some of the characters who we may. We're not gonna see in the next season because they died or they supposedly died, you know? Right.
- [13:54]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah.
- [13:55]
Stephen Thompson
I mean, I think it speaks to one of the central issues that I had with the season that I think a lot of people had with the season, is it really does feel like half of a season. It ends certainly on, like, kind of a dramatic cliffhanger, but it doesn't feel like there's a complete arc. I did want to talk a little bit more about the twist that we've alluded to a couple of times that's introduced in this season, where in this round of games, there is this very dramatic, very consistent with the rest of the show, very visually compelling angle in which at the end of every round of games, the participants vote on whether to continue and whether to basically split what is there in the pot of money at the end of each round. And that introduces a ton of character development. You get a sense of where everybody who's participating in the game stands and kind of what some of their motivations are, because part of what everybody's trying to do is they're participating in these games in the first place because they're deeply in debt, and some people are more in debt than others. And so the amount of money that they've earned isn't necessarily gonna be enough to justify the bloodshed they've experience. And you also get a sense of the kind of element of gambling that goes into it. I found that to be very compelling, and I think it certainly is gonna speak to A lot of people, you know, and sort of what it has to say about inherent flaws in the way democracy has carried out. Like, there's been a ton of conversations in any country that's had elections about, you know, how people vote and how those votes pertain to their self interest. This season has a lot of really chewy and interesting things to say about.
- [15:40]
Jaeha Kim
I agree. I mean, in the first episode, when we see the salesman, the Gong Yoo character, go into the park, I had to, like, look really closely. I was like, that's Tapgal park in Seoul. And that is the scene of where a lot of Koreans went to fight against Japanese colonialism. Why can't I say the el's? It's because I'm Korean.
- [16:02]
Stephen Thompson
Oh, colonialism is a hard word for all of us.
- [16:05]
Janet Wujong Lee
It's hard to say, geez, it's not.
- [16:07]
Jaeha Kim
Like I'm a reporter or anything, but I thought that that was a really cle. Clever aspect. Because here, on the one hand, they're showing this is the site where democracy lived, you know, at one point. And then they show the salesman not really offering a valid choice to the homeless. It's like, here, you want a bun that could satiate your appetite for now. Or, hey, here's a lotto ticket that, you know, it could change your life. And almost everybody picked the lotto ticket and they lost. And then he cruelly stomped on all the leftover food. I mean, what was their choice for the homeless here? Did they even have a choice? They were basically competing for hope like they do on the island with squid game. I just thought that that was a really clever touch that they added because people, especially Koreans, will pick up on that sight.
- [16:55]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah, I was thinking about that. And going back to the scene or sequence you're referring to, Steven, it was really painful to watch. It ached a little bit. I also thought visually it was incredibly effective. They're wearing these patches with the X and Os, and it really heightens up towards the end. They don't even mingle anymore.
- [17:14]
Jaeha Kim
In fact, it felt like the Scarlet Letter, you know?
- [17:16]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah, it's like the Scarlet Letter. And yeah, sometimes you see later on, like, Chang BAE being embarrassed that he voted. Oh, and like, kind of like sometimes, like, hides it in front of his friend once he realizes.
- [17:26]
Stephen Thompson
Almost covering the patch on his chest.
- [17:28]
Janet Wujong Lee
Right.
- [17:28]
Stephen Thompson
I mean, the patches are such a clever visual cue to just to get a sense of where each person stands. You can just look at them and get a sense like, okay, this person voted to continue this and how much this show has to Say not only, you know, we've touched on, you know, what it has to say about capitalism and what it has to say about democracy, but also what it has to say about gambling. And a lot of the people who are in this situation, and this was true in season one as well, are people who racked up enormous amounts of gambling debt. So then putting those people in a position to vote whether or not to continue, you're literally standing there looking at two buttons and deciding whether to play double or nothing. And it is a very, very powerful metaphor. And you really get a sense of how, you know, these people are just under a boot heel, and the system is set up in such a way that getting out from under that boot heel is so difficult and also disincentivized.
- [18:32]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah. I think on the note of gambling, one other thought that I had was the demographics of players shifted a little bit this season. South Korea saw a huge number of young people investing in cryptocurrency during COVID and I think that's a reflection of that. You definitely see that in I.M. siwon's character, Byungi, who's, you know, the cryptocurrency investor, YouTuber, influencer guy, and a bunch of young men, like, chase after him. It's like, your fault that I am here.
- [18:58]
Stephen Thompson
They lost their money on his coin.
- [19:01]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah.
- [19:02]
Jaeha Kim
It shows how these young characters, you know, some of them, if you owe, like, $10,000, you know, you could recoup it when you're maybe 30 or 40 or 50, but owing millions. How are you gonna do that? I think that the show did a really good aspect of showing that it's not just one age group that this is affected by. I mean, it's not just one microcosm.
- [19:23]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah.
- [19:23]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah.
- [19:24]
Stephen Thompson
So a lot of us remember kind of the now iconic games from season one. They do change up a bunch of the games here. And I was wondering what you guys thought of these different games that were introduced in this season.
- [19:36]
Jaeha Kim
I really liked the Merry Go Round one because it was shocking. And at first I was thinking it'd be kind of like that Korean variety show, Running man, where, you know, you just have to, like, run around and sit on a chair. And then when I realized, oh, my gosh, it has to be a certain number to get into a certain room. And the losers, I mean, they lose with their life. That one was the one that was the most shocking and compelling for me.
- [19:58]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yeah. Also at the Merry Go Round, there are moments where they. It was like an aerial shot, and it really looked like these weren't people, and they were just kind of little chess pieces, like, standing on a board. And I thought that was really visually effective going into this season in terms of the games. It kind of reminded me of when I watched the second Hunger Games movie for the first time. So it's kind of like, you know, I knew in general what the games were gonna look like. I knew what was at stake. But I still think some of the strongest parts of the series were the actual games. And I think they really leveled up when it became to some of the games they chose and the production design. I also really liked the pantathlon. When the set opened up, it really reminded me of elementary school field day in South Korea and the music they played that, like, kind of signals that event. You know, everyone's kind of locked in for a second. You're trying to team up. You're trying to raise spirits, because you have to do this together. And then you see five Korean traditional games. I think a lot of folks my age or older grew up with. I was familiar with all of them. So that was cool to just see them playing something that I actually know how to play. Unlike the Squid game that I never quite figured out how to play, which was embarrassing for me.
- [21:15]
Jaeha Kim
No, it's because it's hard, that one. It's confused.
- [21:17]
Janet Wujong Lee
It's hard. Yeah. So I guess, in a way, the games are a little more straightforward, which also helped. Yeah. There was something about five people, in some cases, like the Underdogs group, who don't maybe have a ton in common, grouped up together, going through these, like, rounds of games and watching their really white sneakers stepping on pools of blood. Then it cuts back into them cheering for each other to get through the next game. And then it cuts back to them stepping on blood. Something about that scene was such an emotional rollercoaster for me. That was painful to watch for me, too.
- [21:55]
Jaeha Kim
What that game showed me was that women actually were needed in that game. It wasn't just the brawny men who could run faster or lift things. It's like they could do the dakji. They could do the hacky sack.
- [22:09]
Janet Wujong Lee
Kongi.
- [22:10]
Jaeha Kim
Kongi.
- [22:10]
Janet Wujong Lee
Thank you.
- [22:11]
Jaeha Kim
Yeah, Kongi with the five, which I'm horrible at. I'm better at the hacky sack.
- [22:15]
Stephen Thompson
One thing that I really appreciated about these games in particular, they seem to be chosen and played out with an understanding toward how a lot of reality TV competition works.
- [22:26]
Janet Wujong Lee
Yes.
- [22:26]
Stephen Thompson
That you not only have a competition where people are living or dying based on their ability to play these games, but there is also this element where you are introducing opportunities for interpersonal conflict. You are introducing opportunities for resentment, particularly in the Merry Go Round game, which is kind of this game of musical chairs where you have to choose the exact number of people to go into these rooms. But you are forced to either team up with people or abandon people. And when you are abandoning someone, you are effectively. You're certainly risking their lives, if not killing them outright. That is such a. Is such a way that games like these would be orchestrated to create interpersonal conflict because they are trying to get people to want to kill each other. That, to me, felt like this is a show that is made with an inherent understanding of how reality television works.
- [23:29]
Jaeha Kim
Right.
- [23:29]
Stephen Thompson
I think that if they had gotten that wrong, I would have noticed. And so it's worth acknowledging how much they get it right.
- [23:36]
Jaeha Kim
You know, one scene that stands out to me is when they serve their meal of kimbap, and there was a fork in there. And I was thinking, kimbap is not eaten with a fork. It's literally a finger food or chopsticks. When I saw that fork, they wanted them to fight more. They wanted them to kill each other off more before the official games. And that itself was horrifying that they're, you know, they're thinking, oh, this isn't enough killing. Here, have your meal, and then stab each other to death. And that's exactly what they do.
- [24:06]
Stephen Thompson
So I wanted to mention one more thing before we go. Speaking of food, I watched several episodes of this show on Netflix with commercials, and some of you spring for the ad free. Some of you might get the version where there are occasional commercial interruptions. There is an ad in the rotation of commercials that air during Squid Game for Domino's Pizza and is set in Red light, Green light.
- [24:38]
Jaeha Kim
What?
- [24:38]
Stephen Thompson
So a guy is playing Red light, Green Light in Squid Game with the creepy doll, and he's, like, lunging forward, and he's like, boy, I could use an emergency pizza right now. And then, like, a Domino's delivery driver, like, pops up through a trap door and is like, here, have your emergency pizza. And then it's like, uh, oh, we moved a free pizza to use when.
- [25:01]
Jaeha Kim
You need it most.
- [25:05]
Stephen Thompson
Not since Squid Game the challenge.
- [25:08]
Jaeha Kim
Oh, dear.
- [25:09]
Stephen Thompson
The reality show based on Squid Game. Has there been such a deep, deep misunderstanding of what Squid Game is trying to say and what the audience is meant to be feeling while watching it?
- [25:23]
Jaeha Kim
Okay, Stephen, would you have been happier if it was a Subway ad? Because that pops up in Kdramas everywhere. It's crazy. Oh, wow.
- [25:32]
Stephen Thompson
All right. Well, we want to know what you think about commercials on Squid Game. We want to know what you think about the second season of Squid Game. Find us@facebook.com PCHH that brings us to the end of our show. Janet Ujung Lee, Jaeha Kim, thanks so much for being here.
- [25:46]
Jaeha Kim
Thank you for having us.
- [25:48]
Janet Wujong Lee
Thank you.
- [25:49]
Stephen Thompson
Janet also provided additional translation help. Thank you for that. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Lennon Sherburn and edited by Jessica Reedy and Mike Katzen. Hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all tomorrow.
- [26:14]
Advertiser
Support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone, the perfect app to achieve your language learning goals. No matter how busy your schedule gets, it's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR this message comes from Mint Mobile. From the gas pump to the grocery store, inflation is everywhere. So Mint Mobile is offering premium wireless starting at just $15 a month. To get your new phone plan for just $15, go to mintmobile.com Switch this.
- [26:59]
Stephen Thompson
Message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR.