Aisha Harris (3:00)

Joining me today is Vulture TV critic Roxanna Hadadi. Welcome.

Roxanna Hadadi (3:03)

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Aisha Harris (3:05)

Great to have you. Also with us is journalist and host of the movie review podcast Seated Treybel Anderson. Hey, Trevel.

Sponsor/Ad Announcer (3:12)

Hello.

Trevel Anderson (3:12)

Hello.

Aisha Harris (3:14)

So lovely to have you here. So the Beauty is kind of like Demi Moore's movie the Substance, but with way more characters and lore. A genetic biotech serum has been engineered to transform people into ridiculously good looking supermodels. But there's at least one problem. Eventually those supermodels are dying suddenly, horrifically and spectacularly. And the FBI is now involved. Evan Peters and Rebecca hall play Cooper and Jordan, agents who are work spouses and friends with benefits. The other problem is that the drug comes with a bug. Once taken, it's transmittable through sex, which cuts into the market for the serum and in turn affects the bottom line of the tech billionaire played by Ashton Kutcher and who's known as the Corporation. He sets out a r ruthless assassin to protect his interests. He's played by Anthony Ramos. Highly experimental envelope pushing gene therapy using viral RNA technology. To put it more simply, near complete ground up turbocharged remodel of your physical self on a cellular level. Experimental. One dose, one dose of. This is the closest thing to the.

Sponsor/Ad Announcer (4:19)

Fountain of youth any human's ever gonna get.

Aisha Harris (4:21)

So much pseudo science. There's a lot going on. So much of that kind of talk. And that's only the beginning. The Beauty is created by Ryan Murphy and Matthew Hodgson and it's airing now on FX and streaming on Hulu. Roxanna.

Roxanna Hadadi (4:37)

Yeah.

Aisha Harris (4:38)

Did you take the Beauty and did it work for you?

Roxanna Hadadi (4:42)

I would not take the Beauty. I'm perfectly fine with my aggressive features. I did it work for me? This is like always a loaded question with a Ryan Murphy show. What I will say is that I found myself thinking about it and wrestling with it for a long time after watching it, which is like more than I could say for a lot of Ryan Murphy sort of shows. I think if you're like on their wavelength, usually they are very candy. Like, right? Like you binge them, you feel sick, you forget about it. But I do think that the Beauty is thorough. Throwing out so many ideas about like, beauty standards, big pharma, the suggestion that we are like kept unwell because it makes other people wealthy. I think interestingly a lot about like male loneliness and like misogyny. And violence and how those are tied to attractiveness. It has a lot. So I will say that I was compelled by some things, repulsed by other things, but largely impressed that it felt atypical within Murphy's world and really, really gross. I think as a body horror, it's very effective. I say that as praise.

Aisha Harris (6:07)

The credit sequence alone, after the first time, I was like, okay, Skip, don't need to see ligaments and body parts. It was a bit much for me, but yes, yes. Okay, Trevel, how are we feeling about the beauty?

Trevel Anderson (6:20)

I think Ryan Murphy should be held accountable for his crimes.

Roxanna Hadadi (6:24)

Okay.

Trevel Anderson (6:26)

I think that, to your point, Roxanna, there is so much here, but I think it's too much. I think he read, you know, an Atlantic article or a New Yorker article and was like, oh, let me put this in here. And then he added a little of this on top. It's just too much for me. I also think, and maybe this is just like a byproduct of us, you know, being able to watch more episodes at one time than the audience, you know, when it comes out. But the body horror aspect, after those first few episodes, I was bored. You know, like, I was initially grossed out, and it did what it needed to do. But over 11 episodes, I'm not sure that that concept, that idea and what he's trying to do in terms of the form kept me in the same way that it did in those first few episodes.

Aisha Harris (7:24)

Yeah.

Trevel Anderson (7:24)

By episode five, six, I was like, okay, we get it.

Aisha Harris (7:29)

Yes. Yes. I think I fall somewhere in between both of you, which is that, you know, Rex and I, you were actually on our episode where we talked about Ryan Murphy's previous project. All's fair.

Roxanna Hadadi (7:39)

Yeah.

Aisha Harris (7:40)

The depths could not be lower for me with that show. Like, that was where I was just like, oh, I don't know. I mean, I've been able to tolerate a lot of Ryan Murphy stuff, and this is just a bridge too far. Too far too. And so my expectations were skeptical, especially given that this is sort of his very blatant attempt to wrestle with the Ozempic world, the social media, the Mar a Lago face, like, all those things. And like Trevel said, there's so much. There's so much going on. It's too much. Let me start with the things that I do love. I love Jeremy Pope in this show. And Jeremy Pope is playing a character named Jeremy, who originally, at the beginning of the show, he starts off as being played by Jakel Spivey, who you may recognize from Broadway. He was also in the remake of Mean Girls. But his character eventually takes the Beauty and becomes Jeremy Pope. And Jeremy Pope, he's playing in the world the way that I think he should be. He can dial it up to 10, 11, but he can also bring it back down. And he kind of teams up with the Anthony Ramos character and becomes sort of his protege in a way that I found very interesting.

Trevel Anderson (8:48)

That's the best part of this whole thing.

Aisha Harris (8:49)

It's the best part. It's the most interesting part. That relationship where I tripped over this show a lot. And to sort of build on what Trevel was saying is like, I think this show has a very big structural problem. The substance had a similar problem where it made its point immediately and then it kept banging you over the head with it and just dialing things up to 110. But at least the substance was like a 2ish hour movie and not 11 episodes. And not every episode is the same length. There's a lot of varying lengths. But even that, to me, signals. I'm not sure this show knew where it wanted to go. It will often sidetrack to show a different character being affected by this giant web of the beauty, but not in a different way. We see these transformations happen so many times, and they always happen the same way until there's a little bit of variation towards the end. But I wish that had come sooner. So I don't know if people will necessarily want to stick with this through 11 episodes, but the first few I found were very compelling. But, yeah, the structure is what kind of throws me off and makes you, like, wish that he had an editor. Like, this whole show had an editor.

Trevel Anderson (9:58)

I feel like the least interesting parts of the show is the relationship between the two leads for me. Evan Peters character and Rebecca Hall's character. I don't care. It just did not. That felt like it was supposed to be the through line that really keeps us, you know, intrigued.

Aisha Harris (10:18)

Yeah, the through line.

Roxanna Hadadi (10:19)

The heart.

Aisha Harris (10:19)

Yeah. Yeah.

Trevel Anderson (10:20)

I was just like, boring. Move on. Compared to the relationship, we see Jeremy Pope and Anthony Ramos forge over a number of episodes. I was like, I actually want to see a little bit more what's going on over there. There's some interesting things right there.

Roxanna Hadadi (10:35)

I think it's hard because I don't think the show actually really has anything larger to say than just, isn't it unfortunate that social media has made it so plentiful that we all hate ourselves? Like, that's like the baseline point, which I think we all know, like, that's not new. Yes, so then the ways that they try to communicate it are, yeah, this, like, romance storyline between these two FBI agents. It's very clear that they wanted to do, like, an example files type of, like, workplace romance. It's not necessarily compelling or interesting. Although I love Evan Peters and I think he's fun in, like, daddy detective mode after mayor of Easttown. It just doesn't. It's not enough necessarily. But, yeah, when you get to these characters who are very, like, emotionally, internally ugly, I think it's more interesting to figure out, like, why were they drawn to this? What are their motivations? What are their regrets? As you said, Aisha, I don't know that we get enough, like, variation within motivation. So this isn't hopefully a spoiler, but I will say that, like, the last third of the show goes in, like, a very different direction to set up season two. But for now, I think the thing that was most interesting to me is, like, this focus on, like, incels and, like, what does beauty mean for men? I did actually think that I hadn't really seen as much of since, like, American Psycho.

Trevel Anderson (12:10)

Yeah, to that very point. The fact that Jeremy Pope slash Jaquel's character is an incel. But they're black. We don't talk about the black incels. And so that was something, but not enough. Right. That was something that I thought was different and fresh and something, you know, unique. But to your point, there are so many characters here who are all ultimately motivated by the same thing. There's some trans representation that slides up on in there, you know, later in the season as well. But it's all for the same, you know, kind of impulse. And I do think that that gets a little tired at a point until that moment you mentioned where there is a little extra razzle dazzle thrown in.

Aisha Harris (12:52)

Yeah, I mean, obviously this is meant to be critiquing a lot of things we haven't even really talked about. Like, it's also very clearly trying to critique the billionaire class with the Ashton Kutcher character. But, like, we agree that there's not really anything new being said, like, from Beyonce to TLC doing unpretty. Like, we know that people have body image issues. Like, that is what it is. But I guess, does this show also end up ultimately reinforcing some of those structures that they're critiquing? Because I guess I kept coming up against the fact that a, all of these characters are turning into supermodels, and some of these characters, you could argue, are conventionally unattractive. Like, by regular Standards, they would be considered unattractive. But then you have someone like Rebecca hall who is not, I would say, conventionally unattractive. And it kind of seems like it's all over the place with what it wants to do. You know, Isabella Rossellini also shows up here to sort of be one of the rare people who does not want to change who she is. And so I guess I'm just wondering, like, is it even possible for a show like this, whether it's Ryan Murphy or not, to address these issues without also kind of reinforcing them in a way? Because I felt like that's sort of about the substance to some extent. Just because of the fact that Demi Moore, by anyone's standards, for how old she is, it's still very, very attractive.

Sponsor/Ad Announcer (14:20)

Fair.

Aisha Harris (14:21)

Something about it just doesn't necessarily sit right with me. And I'm not sure if it's a Ryan Murphy issue or if it's just. It's hard to bring these up without still reinforcing those issues.

Roxanna Hadadi (14:29)

I personally think it's hard to do. Regardless, I will say that I laughed at the premiere suggesting that Evan Peters is not attractive. That really cracked me up because I've been online and I've seen the fans. But yeah, I think it's hard because, you know, after these grotesque transformation sequences and the new versions of these characters emerge from these pulsing egg sacs or whatever, the show always switches into a slow motion panning reveal of their body. Right? Like the show itself is fetishizing what they look like now, which I think you could argue is an implicit, like, they look better. The show is telling you they look better. So I do think it's really hard. It's like a limitation built into the show, which is that they want you to think these people are attractive, but the show is not equipped enough to really say what is the lived experience of this person. Now we get like a very light gesture at someone post transformation saying they were ogled and then they were harassed and then they were like, groped right against their will. So then it became this, like, being beautiful is also really hard, which we saw on Nip Tuck and Popular and other Ryan Murphy shows. You know, I think it's very lightly there, but I think the show is more interested in doing this, like, international spy caper thing. And sometimes the, like, beauty observations and what could actually be said about this fall to the wayside.

Trevel Anderson (16:17)

I just think that the story itself, because it's trying to hold so much, it's not doing much of anything effective, you know, including this, I guess, societal interrogation that we're supposed to be doing about, you know, beauty being pain and why should it be pain? You know, that all of those phrases that we just throw around. Beauty's only skin deep, et cetera. But ultimately, I just kept saying to myself, I wish there was, like, an editor, like a story editor. And I'm sure they had one, no shade. But I wish there was somebody who was like, take this out, put that in a different show. Take this out, put that over there and give us a nice, you know, targeted limited series. I think perhaps things might have resolved themselves in a way that made this viewing experience, you know, worth it, at least to me.

Aisha Harris (17:11)

Yeah, and it is interesting. I mean, yes, there's the drug aspect of it, but then, of course, as I mentioned at the top, there's also this sort of AIDS allegory where some people are getting it not knowing that they're getting it. They're just like, oh, a hot person wants to have sex with me. Oh, okay. And then, you know, they wake up the next morning, and all of a sudden they are also very, very ridiculously hot. And again, this is like. That's such an interesting thing. Is Murphy the person to be able to connect all of those dots in a way that feels satisfying. Yeah, it's a lot of interesting ideas. Like, I also love the idea of, like, the way that that cuts into the market and how, like, it mimics the way we think about drugs, generally speaking, and how, like, once everyone can get it, then, like, is it really that special? And also, like, how does this affect an empire? But as a whole, it just does feel like this could have been a tight five, six episodes, and it would have been way, way more effective. But also, you know, to some extent, I admire that this does feel very of the moment, even if it doesn't feel like it's doing much more than scratching the surface of the moment.

Trevel Anderson (18:21)

I agree with that.

Roxanna Hadadi (18:22)

Yeah, I think I found it at least entertaining. Like, I at least found it absurd and kitschy and gross enough. That episode to episode, I was like, at least each episode has something that I am provoked by. For better or for worse. There's something. And especially toward the end when the show is sort of becoming something else, I do think that it is sliding from one sci fi mode to another. And it does at least make me slightly curious for season two. Not enough to forgive the fact that we end on this, like, ludicrous cliffhanger, but at least enough to maybe check out the season premiere of season two. Whenever that arrives.

Aisha Harris (19:11)

Yeah, agree. And we should say that as of this taping, a second season hasn't yet been officially announced. But that cliffhanger at least hints there could be more to come. We'll see.

Trevel Anderson (19:21)

Y' all will be watching by yourself. Okay.

Aisha Harris (19:27)

I respect that, Jervel.

Roxanna Hadadi (19:29)

Yes.

Aisha Harris (19:29)

But Ashton Kutcher, I don't know if he's doing it for me here. He's just not. He's not who I want to see playing an eccentric billionaire.

Roxanna Hadadi (19:37)

No.

Aisha Harris (19:37)

Sometimes with Ryan Murphy projects, it's like it really does come down to who you cast. And I'm not saying that he's as bad of a performer as Kim Kardashian, but he's not that much better.

Roxanna Hadadi (19:49)

Yeah. I think that the problem here in general, and we keep going back to, like, the Pope and Ramos pairing, is, like, they are just really understanding the tone of the project. And I think that's always key to a Murphy, like, who is getting whatever tone that they're going for because it is comedic, but also serious, but also horror, but also sometimes a romance. Bless him. I don't think Ashton Kutcher can hold all of that. And I still think that he was cast just because his ex, Demi Moore, was the lead of the substance. That's my conspiracy theory, and you can't make me unthink it.

Trevel Anderson (20:26)

Oh, I share that. I have my tinfoil hat on as well. Cause why else would you call him up to be in this? No shade.

Roxanna Hadadi (20:34)

Yeah.

Aisha Harris (20:35)

He hasn't been acting that much recently.

Roxanna Hadadi (20:37)

No. The only other thing I can think is that in real life, he is, like, a big tech guy.

Trevel Anderson (20:41)

Yes.

Roxanna Hadadi (20:42)

And, like, a lot of his early coverage was like, look at this actor who's making all these savvy tech finance choices. And again, it's like, oh, God, I can't believe we're maybe approving of those with this casting.

Aisha Harris (20:58)

Look. Ryan Murphy likes to cast close to the best, sometimes.

Roxanna Hadadi (21:01)

4D. Yeah. For djs.

Aisha Harris (21:04)

Kim Kardashian may not be a lawyer in real life yet, but she will play one on tv.

Sponsor/Ad Announcer (21:08)

So.

Aisha Harris (21:10)

Well, it sounds like Roxanna and I are gonna maybe try and tap into a potential season two if and when that comes. Trevel is not, and we respect that because we can contain multitudes.

Roxanna Hadadi (21:22)

Absolutely.

Aisha Harris (21:22)

Just like this show. Tell us what you think about the beauty. Find us on facebook@facefacebook.com PCHH and just a reminder, we are pulling back the curtain and letting pop culture happier plus supporters sit in virtually on a live episode taping. I'm so excited. They'll get to see how the show is made and experience this episode before everyone else. And we'll be talking about something Oscars related, which is one of our favorite topics. It's all happening over Zoom on Friday, February 13th at 3pm Eastern, noon Pacific. And if you're not a plus supporter, go to plus.npr.org happy again, that's plus.npr.org happy if you're already a plus supporter, thank you and scroll back in your feed to January 22nd to learn how to register for the taping. That brings us to the end of our show. Roxanna Hadadi Trevel Anderson, thanks so much for being here.

Trevel Anderson (22:13)

Thank you.

Roxanna Hadadi (22:14)

Thank you.

Aisha Harris (22:14)

This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Kayla Latimore, Mike Katsif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Kamin provides our theme music. And thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.

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