The Met Gala

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour – Episode Summary: The Met Gala 2025

Release Date: May 6, 2025
Host: Brittany Luce
Guests: Shelton Boyd Griffith (Culture Writer), Antoine Gregory (Editor in Chief of Black Fashion Fair)

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1. Introduction

In this engaging episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, host Brittany Luce, alongside guests Shelton Boyd Griffith and Antoine Gregory, delves into the highlights and lowlights of the Met Gala 2025. The discussion is rich with insights into fashion trends, celebrity choices, and the event's thematic significance.

2. Best Dressed Celebrities

Antoine Gregory kicks off the conversation by praising Teyana Taylor for her outstanding ensemble:

“I think from the shoes to the old to Harlem, about like, you know, the Harlem rose embroidered into her cape, like, that was absolutely incredible.” ([02:08])

Brittany Luce complements Antoine’s praise, highlighting Teyana's custom design collaboration with Ruth E. Carter:

“She loves where she's from. Every time she can tell you I'm from Harlem. She's going to show it. And I think that's... It's beautiful.” ([02:30])

Guillaume Job's look, crafted by Grace Wales Bonner, is another standout:

“I really, really love Tyler Mitchu's look... the white boa, the grills, the hair. At every point where he could get it right, he did across the board.” ([02:55])

Shelton Boyd Griffith surprises with his best dressed picks, spotlighting Tessa Thompson and Jeremy Pope:

“I really enjoyed Tessa Thompson and that proper look with the Andre Leon Talley, church fan.” ([03:37])
“For me, Jeremy Pope and the archival, like, Margiela, like, bodice sourced from ebay... it's a subversive way to take on tailoring.” ([04:58])

3. Worst Dressed Celebrities

Transitioning to the less glamorous side of the gala, Shelton Boyd Griffith names Miley Cyrus and Alaia as his top contenders for worst dressed:

“It felt so, like, disjointed... it just was not on theme.” ([13:00])

Antoine Gregory expresses disappointment with Colman Domingo's outfit:

“He just kind of came too safe. It was too safe.” ([13:37])

Brittany Luce criticizes the intricate yet mismatched design of Lisa Manobal's ensemble, which involved embroidered panties:

“Why is Rosa Parks face embroidered on your panties? Okay, what's going on?” ([16:53])

4. Met Gala Theme and Black Representation

The 2025 Met Gala’s theme, Super Fine Tailoring: Black Style, aimed to honor black fashion traditions, specifically Black dandyism. This theme encourages fine tailoring infused with flair and exuberance through elements like feathers, hats, and bold accessories.

Antoine Gregory reflects on the representation:

“We've seen the same amount of black celebrity on the carpet. It wasn't the influx of blackness that I would have hoped for.” ([08:17])

Shelton Boyd Griffith echoes this sentiment, noting the absence of many black designers from the red carpet despite their representation in the exhibition:

“They're still not enough, but, no, they're also not physically there.” ([08:32])

5. Queerness in Fashion at the Gala

Addressing listener inquiries, Brittany explores how queerness was manifested in the gala’s fashion:

Shelton Boyd Griffith highlights Jeremy O. Harris’s Balmain look:

“It was very... the hair kind of referenced, like, Ike Uday, from whose work is in the exhibition.” ([09:57])

Antoine Gregory adds that many celebrities inherently embody queerness in their style choices:

“I think so many of the celebrities live in that space of queerness. It's in their existence.” ([09:58])

6. Memorable Moments and Unique Awards

The guests introduce lighthearted awards to highlight standout moments:

• How She Got in That Car: Diana Ross is awarded for her 30-foot train ensemble, raising questions about practicality.

  “It's like, how did that fit?” ([17:56])

• Size Matters: Janelle Monae's oversized overcoat is celebrated for its grandeur.

  “It was... it was really cute. I actually really, really enjoyed that.” ([19:02])

7. Reflections on the Black Dandyism Exhibition

Post-gala, both guests share their thoughts on the Black Dandyism exhibition at the Met:

Antoine Gregory is moved by historical artifacts and their representation:

“We are so used to seeing images of ourselves that are not beautiful, that are not intentional. ... sitting in front of a painter for hours on end to get this really incredible image of yourself, how you see yourself.” ([19:35])

Shelton Boyd Griffith admires the portrayal of influential figures like Frederick Douglass:

“They had this mannequin that kind of, like, encompassed his body mass... the intention of, like, presenting it on this, like, this mannequin form.” ([20:17])

8. Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Brittany Luce invites listeners to share their favorite Met Gala looks, fostering community engagement and ongoing conversation about fashion and representation.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Antoine Gregory on Teyana Taylor's Look:
  “[02:08] 'I think from the shoes to the old to Harlem, about like, you know, the Harlem rose embroidered into her cape, like, that was absolutely incredible.'”

• Shelton Boyd Griffith on Jeremy Pope's Ensemble:
  “[04:58] 'I was like, I love that it's sustainable, I love that it's vintage, but also like that it's a subversive way to take on tailoring.'”

• Brittany Luce on Lisa Manobal's Outfit:
  “[16:53] 'Why is Rosa Parks face embroidered on your panties? Okay, what's going on?'”

• Antoine Gregory on Black Representation:
  “[08:17] 'It wasn't the influx of blackness that I would have hoped for.'”

• Shelton Boyd Griffith on Queerness in Fashion:
  “[09:57] 'It was very... the hair kind of referenced, like, Ike Uday, from whose work is in the exhibition.'”

This comprehensive discussion not only reviews the standout fashion moments of the Met Gala 2025 but also critically examines themes of representation, queerness, and cultural homage within the high-profile event.

Transcript

[Brittany Luce]

In Syria, the Assad regime imprisoned not just men and women. They also took children and hid them away. The women were asking, why do they want the children? On the Sunday Story, correspondent Dia Hadid investigates what happened to the disappeared children of Syria. Listen now to the Sunday story on the upverse podcast from npr. Monday was fashion's biggest night. The Met Gala. Our pal Brittney Luce was paying attention to all the best and worst dressed. I'm Linda holmes, host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour. And today we've got an episode of the podcast. It's been a minute. They've got a recap. Here's Brittany. Okay, Shelton and Antwan. You both saw it all. The Met Gala 2025. Were you gooped? Were you gagged? How you feeling?

[Antoine Gregory]

I think we had some people really show up.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yeah.

[Antoine Gregory]

And explore the theme. And I think those are going to be the looks that we talk about that I say that I like the most.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

I think that was definitely, like, a safe approach, but there were definitely some standout looks from here.

[Brittany Luce]

So what you all listening can't see right now is that laying out in front of me are all of my notes from the Met Gala last night.

[Antoine Gregory]

Okay.

[Brittany Luce]

It's only been, like, 12 hours since fashion's biggest night, and I have just been dying to talk about who had the best and worst looks of the night. Thank God culture writer Shelton Boyd Griffith is back here with me. Hi, Shelton.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Hi. Thank you for having me, Brittany.

[Brittany Luce]

And the editor in chief for Black Fashion Fair, Antoine Gregory. Welcome back, Antwan.

[Antoine Gregory]

Hello. Thanks for having me.

[Brittany Luce]

This is a dream team right here. Okay. I can't wait any longer. Who did it? Who was your best dress of the night? And before you start listing off multiple people, okay, I'm gonna be vicious. You can only pick one.

[Antoine Gregory]

I feel like we should be able to pick a male and a woman.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

That's a good one.

[Antoine Gregory]

I think that's fair.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it. Antwon, though, we're gonna start with you. Who wore it best and why?

[Antoine Gregory]

For me, Teyana Taylor. She absolutely killed it. I think from the shoes to the old to Harlem, about like, you know, the Harlem rose embroidered into her cape, like, that was absolutely incredible.

[Brittany Luce]

And, oh, yeah, she was wearing, like, a custom design that she co designed with herself and the famed costume designer Ruth E. Carter.

[Antoine Gregory]

What I really love about Teyana Taylor is, like, she loves where she's from.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Antoine Gregory]

And every time she can tell you I'm from Harlem. She's going to show it. And I think that's. It's beautiful.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah, I agree. I totally love it. Okay, so who is your best dressed man?

[Antoine Gregory]

I really, really love Tyler Mitchu's look by Grace Wells Bonner. I thought it was absolutely beautiful. The white boa, the grills, the hair. At every point where he could get it right, he did across the board.

[Brittany Luce]

Grace Wales Bonner dressed so many people across the board in incredible, incredible ways. I mean, FKA twigs had this gorgeous, like, flapper, like, 20 dress that was totally different than what Lewis Hamilton was wearing. That beautiful crisp white suit with the. The cowrie shell details and those incredible. And all that incredible jewelry and that beautiful hat. Just across the board, shout out, graceful. Bonner. You really did it. You really did it last night.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Even Monica Miller.

[Antoine Gregory]

Yes, Dressing Monica Miller.

[Brittany Luce]

The Monica Miller.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

That was special. That was special.

[Brittany Luce]

That was really special.

[Antoine Gregory]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

Okay, okay. And Shelton was Antoine Wright, who. Who would you say with the best dressed man and woman of the evening?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

It was kind of unexpected for me, but I really enjoyed Tessa Thompson and that proper look with the Andre Leon Talley, church fan.

[Brittany Luce]

Oh, my gosh. And that beautiful, big, structured coat.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

I loved it. It was such a sweet homage to him. That Sunday, you know, high noon on Sunday kind of reference.

[Antoine Gregory]

When I thought about, like, the ushers of the church and how they used to wear the white coats. And then, of course, the church fan. We know how much the church inspired Andre, his dress, the way he showed up in the world. And for her to pay homage in that way, incredible.

[Brittany Luce]

Andre Leon Talley, for those who don't know, worked at Vogue from 1983 to 2013 and eventually became an editor at large for the magazine.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yeah, it was such a cute, sweet homage. I was like, oh, I love that.

[Antoine Gregory]

I loved it.

[Brittany Luce]

The outfit felt like something that was very true to her kind of idiosyncratic style. It didn't feel like she was trying to wear an Andre Leon Talley costume. And then, I mean, you know, I watched. I watched the red carpet interviews. I saw some people who were like, I'm wearing a white button down, and this is a tribute to Andre Leon Kelly. And I'm like, girl, I guess so. You know, anything can be stretching the references. Stretching the references.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

We are creating narratives.

[Antoine Gregory]

If you said it, then sure.

[Brittany Luce]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. All right. And Shelton, who is your best dressed man?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Okay, so for me, Jeremy Pope and the archival, like, Margiela, like, bodice sourced from ebay, right? Yeah. I was Like, I love that it's sustainable, I love that it's vintage, but also like that it's a subversive way to take on tailoring. It wasn't a suit. It was like, this is literally the starting point of tailoring.

[Antoine Gregory]

And to that same point, Rosalia as the mannequin.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yo, that was cute.

[Antoine Gregory]

Incredible. Oh, my God.

[Brittany Luce]

That was so fun seeing Rosalia. I mean, you describe her as a mannequin. I mean, that dress was smooth like porcelain. I don't know how she got there. I don't know how she enjoyed the evening. I don't know how she got home. I don't know how she got into the dress, but it was like a smooth, like, it was like perfectly sculpted to her body. This long white column, perfectly sculpted. There was some draping around the hips and further down the dress, but I mean, the bodice of that was like, it was the perfect mannequin. Well, you know, I did love these looks, but I'm sorry, I just gotta. I have to say my P's. I have to say my P's.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Oh, Lord.

[Brittany Luce]

So my best dressed man was Guillaume Job in Custom Valentino by Ali Santos. I. This, this outfit was so gorgeous. First of all, it was like a beautiful white pant white shirt underneath a yellow, like mustard yellow, goldenrod. Maybe even like golden rod with ruby piping gold buttons. Maybe not gold buttons, but goldenrod jacket, ruby piping, double breasted, the most gorgeous coat. I'm. I like, I'm like, literally, I. A part of me, I don't want to commit crimes, but a part of me. I had waited outside of the Met, take it, driven my car up there, wait outside of the Met, and been like, you need to give me this jacket. Like, I'll fight you. I felt like the. A lot of the best looks from the men of the night were from men who like, fully embraced both the sense of humor and also the lack of a rigid approach to masculinity.

[Antoine Gregory]

That flamboyance, yeah, is what people want to see.

[Brittany Luce]

My best dressed pick for woman was Lauryn Hill butter yellow Chaney Chan. Very amazing. But we got to move on. Okay, so we already touched on this a little bit. Let's be clear. Every year, every year, the Met Gala has a theme. And that theme is attached to the Costume Institute's exhibition, which this year is called Super Fine Tailoring Black Style. That means celebrities and designers were encouraged to style looks for the Met Gala, inspired by the black fashion tradition known as Black dandyism. Black dandyism is about fine tailoring with flair or exuberance added to it. You know, sometimes feathers or hats or exaggerated finishes and accessories. But this was also the very first MET Gala theme that honored a specifically black fashion tradition, which makes me wonder. Y'all have seen just as many, if not more, Met Galas than I have. Overall, did a black theme mean that this was, like, the blackest MET Gala ever? I mean, because black people come every single year and show up and show out, I wonder, was there anything markedly different about this event than from past events? Other than aside from Stevie Wonder performing, which not everybody in that room deserved, but I know that I did.

[Antoine Gregory]

I think other than the text saying, you know, this is the theme, I feel like we've seen the same amount of black celebrity on the carpet. It wasn't the influx of blackness that I would have hoped for.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Same.

[Brittany Luce]

Wait, say more about that. I want to hear from y'all on this.

[Antoine Gregory]

If you see the exhibition and you go through the imagery, so many amazing black designers are represented. They were not on the carpet.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Not at all. I was, like, keeping a tally of each. Like, I was like, okay, there's Willis Bonner. There's cjr. There's DB There's Hanifa.

[Antoine Gregory]

They're still not enough, but, no, they're also not physically there.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yeah.

[Antoine Gregory]

I think so often the designers themselves are there. Yeah, they are not there.

[Brittany Luce]

In my mind, I would have thought that when you're talking about tailoring black style, like, I saw Thames wearing Oswald Boateng, but I would have thought he would have been somebody as, like, you know, one of the only black tailors ever on Savile Row. I thought he would have been somebody who would have been a featured talent. I. I also want to note that one of our listeners, P.L. mcGee, reached out wanting to know more of your thoughts on how queerness showed up. As you both pointed out in our last episode, dandyism is intimately connected to queerness. And I wonder how you did or did not see queerness on display last night.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

I think it was everywhere. I think. I think of, like, Jeremy O. Harris, like, in that Balmain look. Like, it was very. It kind of. Even the hair kind of referenced, like, Ike Uday, from whose work is in the exhibition.

[Brittany Luce]

Yes.

[Antoine Gregory]

I think so many of the celebrities live in that space of queerness. It's in their existence. So I think even when you look at Teyana Taylor, that's someone who is just, like, not queer in that way, but the energy. Yeah, yeah. Like, she. She definitely, like, straddles that fence.

[Brittany Luce]

Like there was obviously a lot of like uptown pimp references.

[Antoine Gregory]

Yes.

[Brittany Luce]

As somebody who has seen in Uptown pimp or two. Like, the outfit felt very, a lot of the details of the outfit felt very faithful. But also too, there was a little bit of throwback kind of stud aesthetic to it. Kind of like queer references across time. All right, Shelton Antoine, we come to, we come to a point. We gotta be honest. Who was the worst dressed of the night? Okay, I have one coming up, the moment you've all been waiting for, the worst dressed of the night. We're calling it how it is and awarding special prizes after a quick break on the Indicator from Planet Money podcast.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

We're here to help you make sense.

[Brittany Luce]

Of the economic news from Trump's tariffs. It's called in game theory a trigger strategy or sometimes called grim trigger, which sort of has a cowboy esque ring.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

To it to what exactly a sovereign wealth fund is. For insight.

[Brittany Luce]

Every weekday, listen to NPR's the Indicator from Planet Money.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Imagine, if you will, a show from NPR that's not like npr, a show.

[Brittany Luce]

That focuses not on the important, but the stupid, which features stories about people.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Smuggling animals in their pants, incompetent criminals and ridiculous science studies. And call it, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

[Brittany Luce]

Because of the good names or were taken.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Listen to NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Yes, that is what it is called wherever you get your podcasts. When Malcolm Gladwell presented NPR's Throughline podcast with a Peabody Award, he praised it for its historical and moral clarity. On Throughline, we take you back in time to the origins of what's in the news, like presidential power, aging and evangelicalism. Time travel with us every week on the Throughline podcast from npr.

[Brittany Luce]

You're listening to the NPR Network. Live from NPR News, I'm lan Schmies. A living, breathing record of your neighborhood, the country, the world, told by thousands of local journalists who live in the places where stories unfold. Backed by a national newsroom that puts it all in perspective. Hear the whole country's story. Hear ways of thinking that challenge your own. Hear the bigger picture with npr. All right, Shelton Antoine, we come to a point, we gotta be honest. Who was the worst dressed of the night?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Okay, I have one. It was Miley Cyrus and Alaia. It felt so, like, disjointed. Like the designer said, this is just what we do and this is what it is. But it felt nothing connected to, like, the theme. It was like a nice outfit because it's a liar, but like, it just Was not on theme.

[Brittany Luce]

For me, that actually wasn't one of my worst. That was one. That was definitely my most boring list. I had a separate list of people. I was like, okay, I guess you came. I guess you came.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

You showed up.

[Brittany Luce]

What about you, Antoine? Who. Who. Who was your absolute worst dressed?

[Antoine Gregory]

I feel like my worst stress is less about it being a bad look, but more about me being disappointed. And for me, that's Colman Domingo. I was not happy. I expected. I. I honestly expected him to turn a look, and he has so many times that he has worn looks that had he worn them to last night's event, he would have absolutely killed it. And I felt like with this one, he just kind of came too safe. It was too safe.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Even when he wore to the press preview was like, the Oswald suit was like, this is better than what was on the carpet.

[Antoine Gregory]

The cape and the people were like, you know, it's a reference to Andre when he wore the blue cape. And for me, I just did not see it. The reference. I need to see the reference. The reference needs to be clear. And it was not.

[Brittany Luce]

I was disappointed in the blue cape because I was like. At first I saw it, and I was like, okay, like, I definitely get the Othello reference. It also even the top of, like, the detail of, like, the blue cape, that the top detail was, like, this metallic that had all this texture. I was like, okay, this is kind of reminding me of, like, the costumes that, like, the New Orleans Mardi Gras Indians wear. I was like, okay, I kind of see this, but. But. But. But I. I was expecting to see something underneath the cape. It felt like an afterthought to me because I was expecting to see something underneath the cape that matched the cape. So it would feel like this. You know, I mean, a big part, at least. I'm from. I'm from the Detroit area. A big part of black style there is matching. We love a matchy, matchy match. Like, going to Howard for the first time and realizing that not everybody wear, like, matching colors head to toe, I was in shock because it's so important where I'm from. Yeah, I was under the blue cape that I. I didn't expect to see this black and white suit. And I was a little. I felt a little let down by the. The fact that. That there was no coordination.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

I also say, like, across the board, I felt like the cultures were, like, very safe. Like, very safe across the board. Like, Pharrell was very safe.

[Brittany Luce]

See, now, see, I want to talk about Pharrell right now. Because. Right now. Because when I talk about my worst dress is actually not Pharrell. Although Pharrell is responsible for my worst dress.

[Antoine Gregory]

Oh, my goodness.

[Brittany Luce]

I'm looking at my worst dress. Like, girl. But also, I'm really looking at Pharrell. Like, girl. It's Lisa Manabal. Lisa from Blackpink La Lisa custom Louis Vuitton.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Okay?

[Brittany Luce]

Now, when I first saw the look, I thought, ah, okay, it's like. It's whatever. It's kind of dry. Like, it's like an embroidered, like, sparkly spangly blazer and some LV tights. Why? Why? Like, none of the women that Pharrell dressed had on pants could wear a full pant.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yeah, that's.

[Brittany Luce]

That to me, I'm like, that's. That's a. That's a. That's a tailoring issue. Because. What do you mean you told Sabrina Carpenter she can't have pants for her outfit?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

She's short.

[Brittany Luce]

She's short. What does that even mean? But the panties. I gotta talk about Lisa Manobal's panties because she said she wanted to be a tribute to black women.

[Antoine Gregory]

Oh, my goodness.

[Brittany Luce]

Why? Okay, so the tribute and Pharrell allowed this to happen. Okay. The tribute was the faces of black women embroidered into the panties. Why is Rosa Parks face embroidered on your panties? Okay, what's going on? What's going on?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

When I saw that, I thought that was fake. I was like, oh, is this just, like, a Twitter edit? And I was like, oh, so you.

[Brittany Luce]

Know, Pharrell, listen, I don't know what's going on over there. I don't know. Maybe you're not in. In charge of the quality control. I don't know what happened. All right, now I have a couple more imaginary trophies to give out. We have two categories. Y'all just shout out who you think deserves them. Category number one. Oh, my God. How did she get in that car? This is the award for the look that seemed humanly impossible. Like, how did this person get to the Met gala? Because I don't see how they were able to sit down or fit their outfit inside of a car.

[Antoine Gregory]

I mean, that's Diana Ross for me, immediately.

[Brittany Luce]

I mean, that was like a 30 foot train.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Yeah. I was like, how did that fit?

[Brittany Luce]

How that. I. I. That I definitely see it. What about you, Shelton?

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Not necessarily because it was, like, massive, but I think, like, structurally. Like, how did Rihanna get with that corset? Like, that pregnancy corset is amazing, actually. Like, I'm obsessed, but I'm like, you Sat down with that corset in your pregnant belly.

[Brittany Luce]

That is a good point. And that hat, because that hat is actually too big to sit next to her in a car. So did the hat have its own car? I don't know. Does she have to lay out Layla's seat all the way back? I don't know. Oh, okay. Category number two, size matters. Who deserves the award for the look that emphasized the biggest or the littlest looks of them all? So who was wearing something real tiny or something very big and grand?

[Antoine Gregory]

I would say Janelle Monae, because she came in the Thom Brown the box. Paul Tazewell was a part of that.

[Brittany Luce]

Yeah.

[Antoine Gregory]

And it was like. It was. It was really cute. I actually really, really enjoyed that.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

I love that.

[Brittany Luce]

It was gigantic. I loved it. I loved it. What about you, Shelton? The biggest of the littlest.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Janelle's look was like, that, like, overcoat was huge.

[Brittany Luce]

Before y'all go, though. Antoine, I know yesterday you toured the Black Dandyism exhibition at the Met. And I'm curious, what from the exhibition that, like, that connects this moment in fashion all the way back to the first black people in America. What is going to stick with you in the weeks and months ahead?

[Antoine Gregory]

I think for me, it's definitely the objects. I think I was so moved by some of the paintings of black people who showed up in, like, these incredible ways that we didn't typically see. And I think we are so used to seeing images of ourselves that are not beautiful, that are not intentional. And I think for someone to have sat for a 19th century painting, there's nothing more intentional than sitting in front of a painter for hours on end to get this really incredible image of yourself, how you see yourself. So I think the objects within the exhibition are something that I'm definitely going to stick with.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

One of my favorite things from the exhibition was, like, Frederick Douglass. They have, like, his hat, like, his jacket. They had this mannequin that kind of, like, encompassed his body mass. And I think sometimes you don't really see, like, the totality of, like, the person. It was like this. Is this his presence, like this big, boisterous, like, black man, and like, that intention of, like, presenting it on this, like, this mannequin form that looked like his body was in it. And I think also, like, I was talking to somebody yesterday, like, the ancestral, like, kind of, like spirit and presence of, like, some of those artifacts. I think that's something that going to stick with me.

[Brittany Luce]

Antoine Shelton, thank you both so much for joining me today.

[Antoine Gregory]

No, absolutely. Thanks. For having us.

[Shelton Boyd Griffith]

Thank you for having us. Again.

[Brittany Luce]

That was culture writer Shelton Boyd Griffith and the editor in chief of Black Fashion Fair, Antoine Gregory. And please, please, please let me know your favorite looks of the night in the comments on this episode. I am dying to hear what you all think, too. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by Alexis Williams, Liam McBain, Corey Bridges. This episode was edited by Nina Pathak. Our supervising producer is Barton Girdwood. Our executive producer is Verilyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni. All right, that's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute. From npr, I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.