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- [00:01]
Intuit Representative
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- [00:21]
Glenn Weldon
In the new horror comedy the Monkey, a pair of identical twin brothers gets saddled with a cursed wind up toy monkey that causes people around them to die freakish gory deaths. It's based on the Stephen King short story and directed by Osgood Perkins, who made last year's Long Legs. I'm Glenn Weldon and today we're talking about the monkey on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. Joining us today is my Pop Culture Happy Hour co host, Stephen Thompson. Hey, Stephen.
- [00:46]
Stephen Thompson
Hello, Glenn.
- [00:46]
Glenn Weldon
Also with us today is Jordan Crucciola. She is a writer and producer and the host of the podcast Feeling Seen on Maximum Fun. Hey Jordan.
- [00:54]
Jordan Crucciola
Hello. Thank you so much for having me back.
- [00:56]
Glenn Weldon
Always good to have you. So in the Monkey, Theo James plays twin brothers Hal and Bill. Hal is an introverted nerd. Bill is a bully. As kids, they discover a seriously creepy wind up monkey that their missing father left behind. Wind it up and it beats its little toy drum. But when the music stops, someone close to the twins dies, painfully and grotesquely. 25 years later, the brothers are estranged. Hal is a sad sack loser who's tried to isolate himself from the world, including from his own teenage son, Petey. Bill is mia. But then people in Hal and Bill's old hometown start dying in freakish brutal ways. And Hal realizes that his only hope of protecting from a horrible fate is by confronting the monkey and his absolute jerk of a brother. The Monkey is in theaters now. Jordan, kick us off. What'd you think?
- [01:44]
Jordan Crucciola
I am pro the monkey. It is going for a lot tonally, but once I settled in to what it was doing, then I was along for the ride. It was a very malignant progression for me. I would say malignant hits higher heights for me in terms of the genre cacophony and sort of knowing B movie situation. But still I could see people showing up and be like, what are we doing here? What's going on? But I do think if you are willing to give yourself over to a particular kind of madness, there is a lot of fun to be had.
- [02:13]
Glenn Weldon
Okay, so you're talking about the comedic elements might throw people off.
- [02:16]
Jordan Crucciola
Not comedy in the sense of like a Blumhouse horror comedy, but like watching Osgood Perkins do comedy really for the first time. Like yes, I did laugh actually quite a few times. In long legs. He has a gallows sense of humor, this man. It's fun to watch him get into this sandbox for the first real time.
- [02:34]
Glenn Weldon
Okay. How about you, Stephen? What'd you think?
- [02:36]
Stephen Thompson
Well, I think on paper, there's something really interesting happening here.
- [02:39]
Glenn Weldon
Right.
- [02:39]
Stephen Thompson
And you mentioned Osgood Perkins, the writer, director. He is the son of Anthony Perkins, and he is making this movie about generational trauma and about this burden that is handed down from the missing father to these kids. And the kids have to figure out what they're gonna do with it. And I think that creates some really interesting parallels. On paper, he's the son of Norman Bates.
- [03:05]
Glenn Weldon
Ye.
- [03:05]
Stephen Thompson
And now he's making horror movies about kind of what happens when horror is handed down to you. And I think that on paper is more interesting than the film itself.
- [03:15]
Glenn Weldon
Okay.
- [03:16]
Stephen Thompson
For me, the comedic elements of this film are mostly in these extremely cartoonish deaths. These are not biologically accurate.
- [03:27]
Jordan Crucciola
These are like crazy 88's like, kill bill kind of death. Like, are you ready for arterial spray? The likes of which you've rarely seen.
- [03:36]
Stephen Thompson
Totally. If you saw gore in Wile E. Coyote cartoons, that is the level and depth and kind of general idea of the kind of violence that we're experiencing in this movie. And that's what lends it a lot of its comedy. At the same time, the other thing that is feeding it comedically is sort of this idea that boils down to, lol, nothing matters. And to me, that's not necessarily my vein of comedy. As much as I can, you know, indulge in some gallows humor when the stakes all feel like nothing matters, everything is random and horrible, that's not entirely my vibe. And so, like Jordan, I definitely did laugh a few times during this movie. I think maybe not as many times. There is one magnificent edit where I.
- [04:28]
Glenn Weldon
Know the one you're talking about.
- [04:29]
Stephen Thompson
You know the one I'm talking about where they just cut to the aftermath of, like, well, this person's now dead. And I actually didn't think it needed to then back up and show you their death. It's just funnier that it's like, oh, now this person's dead. And that made me feel like I'm in the hands of somebody who is clever and knows what they're doing. But for me, the film didn't really cohere because I wanted more jokes outside of, whoa, gross.
- [04:58]
Glenn Weldon
Yeah. Did this film feel like a throwback to either of you guys? To me, the dream of 80s horror is alive in this movie. Did you guys feel that.
- [05:05]
Jordan Crucciola
Oh, huge. I really enjoy that. Oz Perkins can't help but. And fully acknowledges that he needs to make movies about himself and draw on his life. There's a brother element in this movie, and there's not a brother element in the original short story by Stephen King. And so you have brothers being raised by a single mother with an absent father to the notes that Stephen was touching on and the single mother, you know, shaping the reality and the burdens that were put within, the sort of lies or partial truths that were raised with. That's something that was heavily and long. And here we are now in the monkey. Like we are watching the sort of sordid, tragic biography of Osgood Perkins lineage play out in front of us. In some ways. His mother was one of the passengers on one of the flights that crashed on 9 11. This man has been subject to unbelievably bizarre, sad chance at points in his life. And then you become a person who makes something like the monkey. And it was crazy to watch an Osgood Perkins movie be a movie that felt like an homage, that felt like a throwback. He's been such a muted stylist for so many years now. Like, do not go to an Oz Perkins movie if you're in the mood for a talkie picture. And this was like, I want to make my movie. That made me feel like a boy who watched Back to the Future growing up. And it changed my life. It was almost mind blowing to witness mass market catering from someone like Perkins. And I was like, all right, we're at a whole new ball game now.
- [06:35]
Glenn Weldon
I mean, speaking of the mass market, this felt to me like Stephen King. And my relationship to Stephen King has changed over the years. I think many people's have, because in most, certainly not all of his work, he paints in some very broad strokes. And Steven, you said the magic word. Cartoon. This is cartoonish in a way that can't help but feel a little adolescent. I mean, and that's not a dig. Adolescent me would have eaten this movie up with a big old spoon. Would have loved exactly how glibly it metes out these really gnarly deaths to people whose crime seems to be that they're just out here in the world living their lives. Right? This has a kind of a sneering, take that society and your conformist ways kind of vibe. But this is a cartoon and it sets that tone from the jump. I was happy to meet it at that level. But there's a trade off there. When you are so glib and cynical about death. You kinda lose me when you try to pivot to anything remotely sincere or anything resembling stakes. Right. Do you want me to invest in these data issues or as you said, generational trauma in the middle of your toy monkey makes heads explode. Movie, you can try. It's not gonna take. And I got the sense, though, that the movie knows that, like, this is all a big goof. Those moments are placeholders, that they're there for structural purposes alone. Because I think they realized, well, we need to do something in between, in palings. What are we going to do? Let's talk about this family.
- [08:00]
Jordan Crucciola
What really appealed to me about this, Like, I was having a really good time watching Theo James. I think he does a really good job. I love it when hot guys figure out that their career should be just very strange. You watch, like, Theo James and starting out in Downton Abbey. Not that he hasn't had a good career, but I remember seeing him in Divergent being like, I don't know much about this guy, but I don't think he should be here. And anybody that has the good sense to put Tatiana Maslany in anything, because where is she all of the time, understands that they need to give actors room to feast. And I think Oz Perkins, that's an exciting thing to me about him going a little bit bigger and a little bit bigger is watching actors actually get to kind of, like, feast in his movies as opposed to working more in innuendo and implication. And, like, Micah Munro is amazing in Long Legs, but I am always a more is more kind of girl in movie. I want maximalism.
- [08:51]
Stephen Thompson
Do know this about you.
- [08:53]
Jordan Crucciola
I want me some maximalism. And so a movie going into this realm, I'm just like, okay, now we are really on my frequency. And I'm going to honor you with full participation as an audience member.
- [09:02]
Glenn Weldon
Steven, I'm going to ask you to break the tie when it comes to Theo James in this movie, because I think there is an elephant in the room, or in this case, a big sex puma in the room, which is, you cannot. There is an she's all that problem here, which is you cannot slap a pair of glasses on Theo James and pass him off as someone who lives a pathetic, nebbishy, lonely life. I mean, pathetic and nebbishy, maybe, but lonely people would hurl themselves at that jawline.
- [09:29]
Stephen Thompson
Yeah. I mean, when he's like, a schlub, I was just like, this is the stupidest casting I've ever seen. Like, this is not who you get to play Your schlub. I felt like I got Josh Hartnett vibes.
- [09:43]
Glenn Weldon
Okay.
- [09:43]
Stephen Thompson
If you remember Josh Hartnett in the hilariously misbegotten Trap, which was terrible, but maybe the most entertaining movie of last year.
- [09:51]
Jordan Crucciola
Love Trap.
- [09:52]
Stephen Thompson
You got, like, over the top handsome guy going weird.
- [09:57]
Glenn Weldon
Yeah.
- [09:57]
Stephen Thompson
And this at least ultimately lets him go weird. But there was definitely an uncanny valley situation where he shows up as a schlub and you're like, come on, you couldn't get someone of slighter build to play as schlub.
- [10:12]
Glenn Weldon
Look, I now live in a small town. If the guy at the counter at my local grocery store looked like that, it would be all he wouldn't talk about. There would be a Facebook group. There'd be a next door thread. It would make the local paper. But to your point, I mean, like, here Theo James is playing twins. I think he does a great job with Bill the jerk brother. When we finally see adult Bill, I love everything about that performance. I love everything about his look. The Junko jeans, the kind of mullet and the mullet. It's so fun.
- [10:41]
Jordan Crucciola
It became a cast of characters movie, and it was like, I'm gonna create my little Tim Burton world. Everybody's a kook, and everybody's really specific. The boys, aunt and uncle, they're weirdos who you see briefly, but when you do, like, they're caricature y, it's an aesthetic out of time. The aunt and uncle look like they're straight out of the 70s. And we clearly, like, meet Hal and bill in the 90s. I grew up with that boys wearing those outfits in the 1990s. I know that flame shirt, button down. And then if it's 25 years later, we're clearly, like, in present day. But people look like they could be pulled from a random assortment of eras and dropped into this main town. And so I was like, okay. In the snow globe universe that the monkey is inhabiting, all of these people feel possible. And yeah, I'm in. When any scene can give me something to sort of like, honestly, like, tilt my head sideways like a dog and make me go like, that's silly.
- [11:35]
Stephen Thompson
I did tilt my head sideways like a dog quite a bit during this movie. I appreciated the way this kind of mixed eras and fashions.
- [11:44]
Jordan Crucciola
That's a really good point.
- [11:45]
Stephen Thompson
I grew up in a very small town in the 1980s, but that doesn't mean everybody looked like the 1980s. In the small town where I grew up, they looked like four different eras kind of all coexisting.
- [11:55]
Jordan Crucciola
They look like the era. The last time they felt really good and they were like, I'm riding it out.
- [11:59]
Stephen Thompson
Exactly like that didn't bother me as much. But I do think it does lend itself to the point that I kind of made at the top, which is that this film feels very cartoonish. And the cartoonishness is what is feedings a lot of the humor. If you go into it kind of knowing that, I think you can vibe with that. I wanted a little bit deeper meaning from a director and writer who was kind of freighted with some of the legacy that this movie is kind of trying to untangle. To me, it didn't quite cohere so much as it was like a series of cartoonish deaths.
- [12:32]
Glenn Weldon
Well, that's interesting, Steven, because you didn't find that deeper meaning in this movie. Jordan, you said you did. To a certain extent. I certainly am kind of more in Steven's camp. I just feel like the glibness kind of keeps it from gathering any kind of weight. But if I meet it at the level of glibness and jokes and incredibly gnarly deaths, be warned. Be warned, listeners. I dug it on that level.
- [12:58]
Jordan Crucciola
Where do you feel. I'm gonna ask you an enterprise question. Where does this movie sit for you in like, what horror feels like now? Where does this fit for where genre cinema is right now, as you guys are kind of experiencing it?
- [13:11]
Stephen Thompson
Well, I mean, Glenn alluded to this earlier feeling like this film was very much a throwb. This feels like a throwback to like there is an object that is causing people to kill people or there is a curse that is causing people to kill people. That's kind of putting it a little bit in the Smile universe, but a little bit in any like, haunted Doll, Chucky, whatever universe. And to me, it didn't necessarily feel like it was elevating beyond horror concepts and tropes that I had seen play out many times, even in recent years, but also in movies from the 80s and 90s. When you're talking about the horror landsc writ large, what is most interesting to me in horror right now are movies like Megan and Companion, which are managing to say something about the modern world and aren't just horror, they're also science fiction, and they're also commentaries on the state of technology in the world today. And those movies I find so much more interesting than there is a haunted amulet, you know, whatever that kills people. So when I'm looking to the future of horror or what is most interesting to me in the horror land, I'm thinking of Megan I'm thinking of companion and not so much this.
- [14:24]
Glenn Weldon
Yeah. And to your point, Steven, this does feel like a throwback. It does feel very 80s to me, which in the sense that there's broad strokes in the middle, cartoonish characters, incredibly evil characters, incredibly good characters. But I don't know, I kind of feel like this did not feel like elevated horror to me at all. And I kind of respected it for that. I mean, I kind of like, oh, this is what we're doing. We're just gonna get gnarly. We're just gonna make people in the audience go, ho. Oh, God. I admire the integrity of that. Really kind of every so often just winking at us and going, yeah, that's not really what this is about.
- [14:57]
Stephen Thompson
This is about, like, this is about this guy's intestines.
- [14:59]
Glenn Weldon
This is about, like, there's a spleen. I mean, that's where I place it. How about you, Jordan?
- [15:03]
Jordan Crucciola
I'm just so curious to see what momentum we are moving toward in this very amped up time of tumult. And as we know, horror cinema is the codex of our history and our anxieties and our fears. And I'm struggling so much with. What I feel like is this lack of buzz that does not denote a lack of success, but feel that something that I got so used to being buzz commensurate with success. And those are like big horror boom years where, like my test case has really been the fact that. Talk to me, obviously, critically, like, hailed, but that movie was as critically hailed and more financially successful than Hereditary. But was it the cultural moment that Hereditary was from the very same studio? So I'm trying to reconcile with where does the. What I experience as the more muted conversation around horror as a zeitgeist penetrating genre? Where does that meet what we're doing in the genre right now and its level of success and the desire for the public for what they kind of want. So I'm just. I'm thinking about this. Anytime I see a new horror movie, I'm like, where are we now with the genre? So I wanted to hear from two great minds of pop culture.
- [16:13]
Glenn Weldon
Well, you know, we went into this and I was kind of talking to the producers about how, like, this movie, the premise is the movie, the movie is the premise. How are we gonna wring a discussion out of it? But it just goes show. You have to find the right people. Thank you very much for this discussion. Tell us what you think about the monkey. Find us on facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on letterboxd@letterboxd.com NPRpopculture we'll have it link in our episode description up next. What is making us happy this week?
- [16:40]
Intuit Representative
This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices like full service, wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on thinkorswim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Pemco Mutual Insurance Company. You know that moment when things take an unexpected turn and you get that sudden sinking feeling that maybe it could have been avoided? Pemco Insurance wants to help you avoid that feeling by sharing prevention tips that empower you to prevent some of life's preventable pitfalls. Because Pemco's commitment to their customers goes beyond the moment of a claim, it's about being with their customers every day. More@pemco.com Prevention this message comes from CarMax. Buying a car is a big decision. A decision you should feel absolutely confident about. And when you shop with CarMax you will because CarMax offers a 10 day money back guarantee so you can feel confident that you made the right choice for you. If you're not completely satisfied with your decision, simply bring it back within 10 days for a full refund. Always shop with confidence at CarMax, the way car buying should be. See CarMax.com for details. This message comes from Warby Parker. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Find a Warby Parker store near you@warbyparker.com retail. This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less, and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text, and nationwide coverage. See for yourself@mintmobile.com Switch now it is.
- [18:22]
Glenn Weldon
Time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What is making us happy this week? Jordan, my friend, what is making you happy this week?
- [18:29]
Jordan Crucciola
There's only one thing on my mind that I could in good conscience present to you, and it's the show I've been mainlining, me and Mo and my wife, and that is Silo, the Apple TV show Silo, which is about a silo, an underground community assembled vertically going down, of people living in a silo because they can't live outside, because the outside is a dangerous landscape. For reasons that have not yet been revealed to me. For Two seasons. I love a sci fi world building. Where are we? How did we get here? Who put us here Kind of story. It's cool to see sets that feel like there are actually people in them interacting with real walls and boundaries and not tennis balls and things like that. And it's also cool to see Rebecca Ferguson being so cool. And as MOA has said, like, nobody is this strong. Nobody is as strong as Rebecca Ferguson is in this show. So if you love her suffocating men by climbing up on them like trees and wrapping her knee around their neck and suffocating them a la Mission Impossible, you have got some Ilsa Faust in this show. So yeah, it's. I'm all in for this show. Rebecca Ferguson. I cannot wait for season three, which who knows when that's gonna come. So on the edge of my seat for an indefinite period of time.
- [19:41]
Glenn Weldon
All right, so that is Silo on Apple tv. Thank you very much, Jordan. Stephen Thompson, what is making you happy this week, sir?
- [19:47]
Stephen Thompson
Perhaps you, like me, are in need of something to calm your nerves. I have been seeking out music that makes me feel more calm and relaxed in a world that so clearly isn't. And I keep coming back to this gorgeous little record that came out at the beginning of this year called Weft W E F T by an artist called Blue Lake. Blue Lake is the project of Jason Dungan who is an American born musician based in Denmark. It's just gentle instrumentals, it's guitars and strings, zither here and there, a few homemade instruments, hypnotic drones. This track is called Oceans. I should have pulled a track that had a little more variance in it, but this is a. This is a floating on a mellow nature vibe record. That is what I need right now. It is a record to take into your weekend. It is a record for sipping your coffee or hot chocolate on a Sunday morning. It is a beautiful record. It is called Weft. It is by the artist Blue Lake and it is one of my go tos for lowering my constantly surging blood pressure.
- [21:09]
Glenn Weldon
Okay, thank you very much, Stephen Thompson. I'm gonna keep on the soothing track that you kicked us off on there. Dish is a British podcast where two hosts invite a celebrity guest on to interview them while they serve them a meal, often of their favorite foods. It is hosted by a guy named Nick Grimshaw who is a radio and TV personality. It's a very British. Is a professional presenter. A host, right, who hosts things. And his superpower is his ability to make pleasant, light, bubbly chitchat with absolutely Anyone imagine if Ryan Seacrest had a personality or at least a kind of a discernible point of view. That's kind of him. The other host is Angela Hartnett, who is a Michelin star chef. She actually makes the meals. This is a very British show. The foods tend to be very British as well, but they're prepared simply and cleanly. And honestly. The guests are British. And look, I'm over here as a confirmed Angloph and I'm only hitting about 82% recognition with some of these guests. But the thing about it is, no matter who the guest is, the focus is on the food. So it's about the memories of the food. Their parents would make the best meals they've ever had. If you ever wanted to listen to a show where people wax nostalgic about things like Marmite and mushy peas, this is it.
- [22:24]
Stephen Thompson
Marmite is delicious, bro.
- [22:27]
Glenn Weldon
Okay?
- [22:28]
Stephen Thompson
It is just a salty dispensing unit.
- [22:31]
Jordan Crucciola
Yeah. What if I just wanted a savory toast spread that was salt?
- [22:34]
Glenn Weldon
I mean, then you both should watch this show because you would find like minded spirits. But the thing about it is talking about food like that seems to disarm the guests in a way. I mean, it's not. I'm not gonna pretend it's anything revelatory here, but it's them talking about things you have not seen them talk about a million times. And at one point, Angela Hartnett walks you through how to make each recipe step by step. Then there's a series of rapid fire questions where the guest is interrogated about their favorite way to prepare a potat or.
- [23:02]
Jordan Crucciola
This is so English.
- [23:04]
Glenn Weldon
Here is why I love this. Stephen, I think you'll pick up on this. This is so low stakes, no urgency. It is a comforting, rambling conversation. Yeah, they plug their projects, but the conversation is so light and unforced and utterly frictionless that it sometimes sloshes over into the banal. Right. But the pleasantly banal. And that, my friends, is the Dish podcast in a nutshell on the Dish YouTube channel. And that is what is making me happy this week. That brings us to the end of our show. Jordan Crucciola, Stephen Thompson, thank you so much for being here.
- [23:35]
Stephen Thompson
Thank you.
- [23:36]
Jordan Crucciola
Thank you very much.
- [23:37]
Glenn Weldon
This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathoma and Lennon Sherburne and edited by Mike Katsif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy, and Elokemin provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon and we'll see you all next.
- [23:56]
Intuit Representative
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- [24:12]
Stephen Thompson
This message comes from NPR sponsor Viori.
- [24:15]
Glenn Weldon
A New Perspective on Performance Apparel. Check out the latest Dream Knit Collection.
- [24:20]
Stephen Thompson
By visiting viori.com NPR For 20% off, your first purchase is exclusions apply.
- [24:26]
Glenn Weldon
Visit the website for full terms and conditions.
- [24:30]
Intuit Representative
This message comes from Warby Parker. If you wear glasses, you know how hard it is to find the perfect pair. But step into a Warby Parker store and you'll see it doesn't have to be. Find a Warby Parker store near you at warbyparker. Com Retail.