The Pop Culture Hill I’ll Die On

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour

Episode: The Pop Culture Hill I’ll Die On

Date: February 10, 2026

Host: NPR
Panelists: Aisha Harris, Glenn Weldon, Stephen Thompson, Candace Slim

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Overview

This episode of “Pop Culture Happy Hour” dives into the personal “pop culture hills” the panelists would die on—those impassioned, sometimes-unpopular opinions they hold about movies, TV, music, and more. Rather than “hot takes” for argument’s sake, these are deeply held beliefs that no amount of discourse will sway. Each panelist presents their thesis with the others playfully interrogating the logic and implications of each stance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Candace Slim’s Two-Part Hill: The Young Actor Pipeline & Producer Strategy

• Thesis: “Jacob Elordi is the new Timothée Chalamet, who could be the next Andrew Garfield. Timothée Chalamet is the current Leonardo DiCaprio and will have the career of Tom Cruise.” (04:14)

Part One: The Rising Stars Pipeline

• Elordi’s 2023 echoes Chalamet’s post-2017 rise (04:33)
• Chalamet’s previous online ubiquity is shifting to Elordi, especially with roles in Priscilla and Saltburn (04:33–05:25)
• Elordi has range early in his career (The Kissing Booth = Garfield’s Spider-Man), foreshadowing potential Oscar-bait performances (05:36)
• Suggests Elordi should follow Margot Robbie’s “super producer” route—picking great roles and backing strong projects (06:16)
• Quote: “I feel we don’t study the Margot Robbie super producer playbook enough.” – Candace Slim [06:16]

Part Two: Chalamet’s Hollywood Arc

• Chalamet, like DiCaprio, rapidly ascended as a “boyish” leading man and is now “choosing” roles, not just being chosen for them (07:27)
• Predicts Chalamet will eventually pivot into a Tom Cruise-style career: big-budget, auteur-driven films, with selectivity akin to Cruise’s strategic choices (07:31–08:31)
• The panel agrees some elements are comparable—especially the early career moves—but contend Chalamet may not fit the “action star” mold just yet
• Memorable exchange:
  • Glenn: “Comparing anybody to Tom Cruise is always fraught...he is so singular. He was an action star...” (09:12)
  • Aisha: “Maybe we have to isolate an era of [Tom Cruise’s] career as opposed to the long game.” (09:43)
  • Candace: “What if I fell off a building, but I was really French and cool about it? That might be something the girls want.” (10:25)

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2. Glenn Weldon’s Grudge: Boss Battles in Video Games Need to Go

• Thesis: “Boss battles in video games are pointless and frustrating. They are retrograde holdovers from an antiquated gaming era.” (11:46)
• Boss battles halt innovation by reverting gameplay to repetitive pattern recognition, outdated in today’s richer, open-world games (12:14–13:20)
• Modern games should move beyond this so players have more creative, varied experiences
• Quote: “It’s challenging in the way that churning butter is challenging...it is hard, it is repetitive, and we don’t need to do it anymore.” – Glenn Weldon (13:52)
• Others agree—boss battles diminish enjoyment, and their absence often improves modern games (14:10–15:26)
• Comic moment: Candace admits she misunderstood "boss battles" as workplace harassment in games (15:32)
• Glenn offers to send her “indie games where you’re not far off” (15:47)

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3. Stephen Thompson’s Song Retirement Plan: Cultural Freshness over Nostalgia

• Thesis: “There needs to be a mechanism whereby songs are forcibly retired.” (16:24)
• Unlike films and TV, songs (especially classic hits and holiday staples) become “inescapable” due to persistent radio and retail rotation (16:23–17:53)
• Suggests a “blue ribbon panel of curmudgeons…made up entirely of me” to temporarily or permanently retire songs that oversaturate culture (17:57)
• Quote: “Bryan Adams’ ‘Summer of 69’…a song from 1980 about how life was best in the 60s is still inescapable if you listen to classic rock radio. And to me, that is absurd.” – Stephen Thompson (17:22)
• The group points out that with so much old music, playlists could be more varied instead of repeating the same hits (18:55)
• Glenn notes, “These things you are claiming are inescapable…are very evitable, I assure you,” by not listening to radio (19:03)
• Stephen argues music “on the wind” (in public, stores, etc.) is difficult to escape (19:28–19:52)
• Candace backs Stephen, noting LA radio cycles the same hits endlessly, regardless of demographic (20:16–20:51)
• Glenn remembers the period when every CVS played “Smooth Operator”—well-liked, but still repetitive (20:51)

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4. Aisha Harris’s Short Concertgoer Crusade: Height-Based Sections

• Thesis: There should be designated sections at concerts for people 5'5" or shorter. (21:54)
• Egalitarian standing-room shows are a “scourge” for the “height challenged,” who endure blocked sight lines, spilled drinks, and endless phone recordings in their faces (21:54–22:58)
• Suggests a “roller coaster rule”: venues have areas closer to stage for shorter fans—optionally, with an upcharge, making it like paying for extra legroom on flights (23:21–23:58)
• Quote: “There should be sections…for people 5’5” or shorter. And it can be in any part of the room, preferably closer to the front…just like if you’re going on a rollercoaster.” – Aisha Harris (22:57)
• Glenn proposes it would only work as a paid premium: “Are you willing to pay more money for this option?” (23:39)
• Aisha: “In my 30s now, so yeah.” (23:45)
• Candace offers incentives: “If you’re tall, you get nothing. But if you’re short, you get a free T-shirt.” (23:48)
• Stephen relates his own (controversial!) writing urging tall people to mind their placement at concerts—readers’ fury was intense (24:25–24:59)
• Candace: "If we unionize...we can get this off the ground, Aisha.” (25:48)
• Everyone agrees—the solution isn’t simple, but the problem is real for many concertgoers

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Candace Slim (on Elordi as the next Robbie):
  “I just think Jacob has good taste, and I’d like to see him use it to become this, like, mega producer who just attaches his name to projects he likes.” [06:16]
• Glenn Weldon (on boss battles):
  “It’s challenging in the way that churning butter is challenging...and we don’t need to do it anymore is the thing.” [13:52]
• Stephen Thompson (on song retirement):
  “A blue ribbon panel of curmudgeons, made up entirely of me, maybe says: in the case of ‘Rockin’ Around the Christmas Tree’—this song is on hiatus for five years.” [17:57]
• Aisha Harris (on short-friendly sections):
  “You must be this tall. And you can choose, if you are short, to go in there or if you don’t care.” [23:24]
• Glenn’s tongue-in-cheek on grievances:
  “These are all hills that are littered with my sun-bleached bones.” [11:39]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:13 — Introductions and premise of the episode
• 04:05 — Candace Intro’s her two-part “hill” (Elordi/Chalamet Hollywood ecosystem)
• 06:42 — Elordi as a producer; Margot Robbie comparison
• 07:27 — Chalamet compared to DiCaprio/Cruise career path
• 11:02 — Glenn’s previous hills & his boss battles thesis
• 11:46 — Glenn’s anti-boss battle manifesto
• 14:10 — Stephen’s observation about speedrunning and boss battle avoidance
• 16:11 — Stephen’s song retirement proposal
• 18:47 — Stephen proposes a blue-ribbon panel to retire overplayed songs
• 21:54 — Aisha proposes short person sections at concerts
• 23:21 — Implementation details (“roller coaster” rule for concert sections)
• 24:25 — Stephen’s experience with blowback to his ‘tall people at concerts’ advocacy
• 26:38 — Episode wraps up; notes on grievance-based hills

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Episode Flow and Tone

The conversation is high-spirited, thoughtful, and laced with humor and self-awareness. Each “hill” receives gentle roasting, genuine debate, and friendly commiseration. The hosts’ rapport makes even the most tongue-in-cheek arguments feel sincere and relatable—as they say, some hills are truly “littered with [their] sun-bleached bones.”

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Summary for New Listeners

In this dynamic, laughter-filled episode, the Pop Culture Happy Hour team shares and scrutinizes their most fervently held pop culture opinions—those hills they’ll “die on”—covering everything from young actors’ career arcs and the need to abolish video game boss battles, to song retirement schemes and making live music more accessible for short fans. Along the way, they unpack the industry, joke about life as adults, and demonstrate that, no matter how trivial, pop culture opinions are ripe ground for spirited—if kind—discussion.

Transcript

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[Aisha Harris]

Maybe you think you shouldn't read a book before seeing the movie adaptation or you're convinced season two is the best season of the Wire. Well, that's just like your opinion, ma'.

[Candace Slim]

Am.

[Stephen Thompson]

And when it comes to culture, all got at least one of those the argument we're always making, that non negotiable stance, that immutable truth we're sticking to no matter what. Nobody's gonna convince you otherwise. But arguing about it sure is fun. So that's why we're revisiting this conversation from 2024 about the pop culture hills we'll die on. I'm Stephen Thompson.

[Aisha Harris]

I'm Ayesha Harris and you're listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from.

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[Aisha Harris]

Joining us today is our fellow PCHH host, Glenn Weldon. Hey Glenn.

[Glenn Weldon]

Hey, Aisha.

[Aisha Harris]

And also with us is the former host of Slate's Internet culture podcast, Icy, and former pop culture happy hour producer, Candace Slim. Welcome back, Candace.

[Candace Slim]

Oh my gosh. It is really nice to see all of you.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, and I'm also very much looking forward to everyone's hills that they shall die on. The premise here is pretty simple. Each person here will share a pop culture related perspective that they feel extremely passionate about. And then the rest of us will judge them for it.

[Glenn Weldon]

We're not talking hot takes here. We're gonna call this hot takes. And we decided not to call it hot takes. Cause we don't want it to be like confrontational. In your face, man. This is just something we feel strongly about.

[Aisha Harris]

Absolutely. Mine might arguably be a hot take, but I'm not gonna present it that way. We'll see. Candace, why don't you kick us off with the Hill? You will die on.

[Candace Slim]

Whew. I need to warn you, it is a two parter. So I'm gonna state my thesis. We'll do an intermission at the semicolon.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay, here we go.

[Candace Slim]

Jacob Elordi is the new Timothee Chalamet. And he could be the next Andrew Garfield. Timothee Chalamet is the current Leonardo DiCaprio who. Who will have the career of Tom Cruise. Okay, marinate, marinate, marinate, marinate.

[Glenn Weldon]

There's a lot to absorb there.

[Aisha Harris]

Explain.

[Glenn Weldon]

Unpack.

[Candace Slim]

Jacob Elordi's 2023 reminds me a lot of that 2017, 2018 period when Timmy was exploding because he was in Greta Gerwig's Ladybird and Luca Guadagnino's Call Me by youy Name. And so I Remember back in 2017, Timmy is exploding beyond Internet stardom. You could not open Twitter, Tumblr, Yelp without seeing photos, fan cams, this boy. But I think Timmy's time as the Internet's number one boy is over. Because 2023, Jacob comes out two movies back to back. Sofia Coppola's Priscilla Emerald Fennel, Saltburn. And I could not go one scroll without seeing that exact gif of Jacob Elordi in Saltburn as Felix with the little, like, cowboy hat on. And I just think he is occupying Timmy's space because he has this, like, effortless, cool, gender bending street style. Coppola and Fennel are two people who have definitely contributed to this pipeline because they've really just, like, captured that allure of Elori through the female gaze. Now, in terms of Jacob's near future, he's going to be in this miniseries called the Narrow Road to the Deep north, which is based on a book by Richard Flanagan. It's about this, like, World War II lieutenant's life as he grows up and falls in love. This screams Andrew Garfield to me. And I think Andrew and Jacob, they've both shown range very early on in their careers. Jacob did the kissing booth. Some may say that's Andrew Spider Man. And I just think Jacob could be like, an Oscar bait actor the way Andrew has. But I want to add an addendum, which is that, okay, I think he should become the next Margot Robbie.

[Aisha Harris]

There's so many actors, I can't keep them straight.

[Glenn Weldon]

I know, I know the shorthand. The shorthand.

[Candace Slim]

I know, I know. That's why you gotta sew, you gotta take notes, take notes. So I feel we don't study the Margot Robbie super producer playbook enough and how she is doing so much behind the scenes to secure not only her legacy in Hollywood, but her control as an actress. And I just think Jacob has good taste, and I'd like to see him use it to become this, like, mega producer who just like, attaches his name to projects he likes. That is part one. Thoughts, questions, concerns? Let's go.

[Glenn Weldon]

Wow, that's part one.

[Stephen Thompson]

That's part one.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay. I think I'm with you on the. He could be Oscar bait. Whatever. I see that. I.

[Candace Slim]

Yes.

[Aisha Harris]

What I don't agree with necessarily is the idea that there can only be one.

[Stephen Thompson]

Right.

[Aisha Harris]

Timothy. Timothy. Timothy. However he pronounces his name, you know, he can exist and coexist alongside Jacob Elordi. All right, I can see it, I guess, kind of.

[Glenn Weldon]

I mean, we can't say you didn't show your work, Right. There's examples.

[Aisha Harris]

But what I really needed, though, was a whiteboard. I was gonna say track it off. A red string and some string.

[Candace Slim]

I know I left my red string cork board in the other room. Guys, I'm so, so.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay. What's part two. All right.

[Candace Slim]

Timothee Chalamet is the current Leonardo DiCaprio. He'll have the career of Tom Cruise.

[Stephen Thompson]

Okay.

[Candace Slim]

When I look at an actor's Wikipedia, sometimes I'll pick out a few roles and I'll ask, was this actor chosen or choosing? I think Timmy is now in a place where he can choose his roles. And I think Timmy is trying to ball with the bros, like attaching himself to the biggest directors possible. That means choosing Wonka, choosing Dune, and we move to the next part. Him being the current Leo, I think the comparison is obvious. You know, he is boyish. He became Hollywood A list very quickly. And the Timmy hype reminds me a lot of Leo's Titanic era. But when Leo chose to attach himself to Martin Scorsese, best career choice of his life. And even though Timmy has attributed a lot of his success to Luca Guadagnino, I think he's looking for his second auteur. And so when he does, I could see Timmy going down this path of like, okay, I made my name in the indie scene, but if I'm only going to do one or two movies a year, they better make 100 million at the box office. Who does that sound like? Tom Cruise.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay.

[Candace Slim]

I would say Tom, you know, reliable, making movies, putting in the work. Nominated for three acting Oscars. Timmy is academy loved. Someone who is not afraid to take a check over the art of acting. And so that is my pop culture hill. I'll die on that. Jacob Elordi is a new Timothee Chalamet who could become the next Andrew Garfield but should become Margot Robbie. Timothee Chalamet is a current Leonardo DiCaprio who will have the career of Tom Cruise. End scene.

[Aisha Harris]

End scene.

[Stephen Thompson]

I really appreciated this elevator pitch.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, yeah.

[Candace Slim]

Longest elevator of your life.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah, let's focus on the Tom Cruise. Cause it's the only part I remember.

[Candace Slim]

Yeah, sure, go for it.

[Glenn Weldon]

So comparing anybody to Tom Cruise is always fraught for me because he is so singular. He was an action star. And then some of the success, A lot of the success, I would say, of the past few years is Tom Cruise going from broody action star, realizing that doesn't really work for him anymore and pivoting to action star who acknowledges his age in kind of a wry, knowing way. It's about self knowledge. It's about an earned self awareness. I think Chalamet is way too young for that kind of thing.

[Aisha Harris]

Tom Cruise is like in his 60s now. And so his career, I think we have to sort of isolate a era of his career as opposed to the long game of his career. And I can see the point if we're talking about him and his Risky Business top Gun era. Yeah, I think that's comparable because Timmy is still doing like he did Bones and all that very weird cannibal movie. But then on top of that, he also did Dune. So I think that seems more comparable. Maybe we'll see him start to get into the rom com era like Tom Cruise did very briefly with Jerry Maguire. But as far as like action hero star, I don't know. I don't know if I see that for him right now.

[Candace Slim]

Timmy and the word bulk, I don't know about that. But the thing is, like, I can see Timmy studying the game of Tom Cruise and being like, what if I fell off a building? But I was like, really French and cool about it, so that might be something the girls want.

[Aisha Harris]

Who knows? I followed like a quarter of that and I think you made very good points.

[Candace Slim]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Aisha Harris]

I feel like maybe on like Instagram or the socials are something you should definitely share the whiteboard.

[Candace Slim]

Don't make a powerful.

[Aisha Harris]

Please do, Candace. Well, thank you, Candace. Now, Glenn, tell me, do you have a whiteboard here?

[Glenn Weldon]

No, this is very simple. But before we get to that, I have to say that over the long and storied history of this show, we've had occasion to visit several hills. I'm prepared to die upon a Das Sound Machine was robbed from the film Pitch Perfect 2. The song Flashlight is terrible. Das Sound Machine rocks. Store bought Halloween superhero costumes are better than any Sofro hobby lobby nonsense you can whip up as a parent because your kids want to look like superheroes. They do not want to look like some sad Santa Fe gallery textile installation. So you let them look like superheroes. Candy corn is high. Fructose earwax. These are all hills that are littered with my son bleach bones.

[Aisha Harris]

Those sound like hot takes to me, but okay.

[Glenn Weldon]

No, no. They're just observations. They are mere observations.

[Candace Slim]

They're too real to be hot. Yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

Here is my fresh hill I will die on. Boss battles in video games are pointless and frustrating and they are retrograde holdovers from an antiquated gaming era. They add nothing to a game's enjoyment. In fact, they substitute tracked substantially from them. It is time they were consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong. You all know what I mean when I talk about boss battles. Yes.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yes.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, yes. I have battled many a boss.

[Candace Slim]

I might need A little refresher.

[Glenn Weldon]

A boss battle, Candace, is where any game that you're playing's innovation and idiosyncrasy and freshness and novelty stops dead. So we can go back to gaming's most basic mechanics of pattern recognition. And so the game stops dead while the boss sits there. The big bad that you have to fight and goes through their patterns that you are forced to memorize. They will throw out three fireballs, then they will unleash five minions, then they will send out a shockwave, then they will become vulnerable for three seconds, then they retreat. And then it all starts again. You as the gamer, you have nothing to do except dodge the fireballs and fight the minions and jump over the shockwave, run in, wail on them as fast as you can to take 2% of their health, then retreat and repeat. And when you've got them halfway down, then they transform into a final form where they do everything they just did, but faster, with more damage. And maybe now you have to aim for some stupid glowing spot under their thorax to do any damage. The thing is that this is what games used to be. This is all that games used to be. And people loved it back then. They loved the repetition, they loved memorizing the rhythm and this feeling of accomplishment, of dying countless times because you miscounted a fireball. And I remember the feeling of bliss that crashes over you when you finally get it. I am an older man now, and games aren't on rails anymore like they used to be. They are much richer and wider and wilder. They give you more options, more possibilities, more potential to do anything, more ways to accomplish whatever you want to do except fight the boss. Those remain. Lather, rinse, repeat. I find nothing about them fun or challenging. I mean, it's challenging in the way that churning butter is challenging because it is hard, it is repetitive, and we don't need to do it anymore is the thing. So throw off the shackles of yesteryear is what I say, and let dull, mindless repetition go the way of the dodo.

[Stephen Thompson]

Now, Glenn, there are more games now where you can avoid the boss battles, correct? Like, I feel like there's a whole cottage industry in video gaming where you're trying to set a record for speedrunning a game. And one way to do that is to, like, dodge and weave and kind of duck past. And it seems like it's like more and more of those boss battles, you're able to avoid them if you want.

[Glenn Weldon]

To, if you want to. More of that, I say. But My worry is that this will never go away completely, because gaming as an industry is just besotted with nostalgia, with, like, the throwback, with people yearning for the games they played as kids. I just think they're a waste of everyone's times and we have to do better. We must do better.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, hi, it's me, the person who only plays games that I played when I was, like, 12. There you go. But I will say, and it's like, a handful. I have the newer version of Crash Bandicoot, which I love. But I agree, the boss battles are terrible. The whole game is repetition because it's literally just you're running and you have to dodge things. But in between, there are those boss battles that are just like, to me, that frustration you're getting at, Glenn, because at least with normal level games themselves, you're moving forward a goal, whereas the boss battle is like. There's just. It's just one thing. It's so terrible. So I'm with you there.

[Glenn Weldon]

I'll be in the middle of an amazing game and I'll be like, we're doing this again. This now still.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Candace Slim]

I appreciate the boss battle explainer, Glenn, because as someone who does not game, I genuinely thought you meant, like, in every game, there's a part where the manager yells at you for not filling out your timesheet. And I was like, wow, every game has that. That's crazy.

[Glenn Weldon]

Wow. I could send you some indie games.

[Candace Slim]

Where you're not far off stu. And a PS5 with that.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, thank you, Glenn. That's a great hill to die on. I completely concur, and I'm glad that this is something that has somewhat gone by the wayside, even if not completely. Steven, tell us, what is the most passionate thing you want to argue right now?

[Stephen Thompson]

Well, I get to piggyback on something that Glenn said. Glenn gave me a beautiful distillation of the idea of throwing off the shackles of yesteryear. And it ties into my thoughts on music.

[Glenn Weldon]

Not a surprise.

[Stephen Thompson]

Basically, I think there needs to be a mechanism whereby songs are forcibly retired. Okay, same or so big movie comes out big. It leaves theaters after a few weeks, maybe if it's a big hit, a couple months. TV shows, they pop up when you search them out. Maybe people are talking about them when they come back. Otherwise, if you want to avoid it, you can generally avoid it. Songs stay on radio playlists and kind of on the wind in stores, in your car, if you're a car radio person. And more and more radio stations are programmed in such a way where even if it's an oldies station, even if it's a classic rock station, that station will be constructed around a core playlist of, like, a dozen songs. And so if you turn on a classic rock radio station or you're flipping the dial and you just hit, like, oh, here's some guitars, the odds that you will hear Bryan Adams Summer of 69 are shockingly high.

[Aisha Harris]

Those were the best days of my life.

[Stephen Thompson]

A song from 1980 about how life was best in the 60s is still inescapable if you listen to classic rock radio. And to me, that is absurd. This applies to holiday music. My God, when's the last time we got a holiday song recorded in the last 25 years?

[Aisha Harris]

I mean, there are a lot. It's just they're not winding up on.

[Glenn Weldon]

We get them.

[Stephen Thompson]

Oh, my gosh.

[Aisha Harris]

Introduce you to Cher, Ariana and Cheryl Lee Ralph.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yes, please, please. Allow me to clarify that I do not mean that nobody is recording holiday music, for the love of God. I am well aware that that is the case. But in terms of what kind of seeps into the cultural firmament to the point of inescapability, it's just this endless rehashing and regurgitation of songs that were recorded 30, 50 years ago. I just think there needs to be, like, a blue ribbon panel of curmudgeons made up entirely of me, led by you, that maybe says, in the case of Rocking around the Crystal by Brenda Lee, this song is on hiatus for five years. We will revisit it in the holiday season in 2028 or whatever. But in the case of, like, Bryan Adams, Summer of 69, that that song be permanently retired and never played on the radio ever again.

[Aisha Harris]

I'm just trying to think of the logistics of this because, like, what is a classic rock station but a station that is going to be playing the oldies?

[Stephen Thompson]

But there are so many oldies.

[Aisha Harris]

Aisha Fair.

[Stephen Thompson]

This is my point is, like, Bryan Adams had, like, 12 hits. Play a different one.

[Glenn Weldon]

One way to toss off the shackles of yesteryear and to avoid that inescapability you mentioned is by, you know, maybe not listening to a classic rock station in 2024, as I do not. And these things you are claiming are inescapable and inevitable are very evitable, I assure you.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yeah, okay. That is true. I am in the unusual position of sharing a car with three people who insist only on the radio.

[Glenn Weldon]

There you go.

[Stephen Thompson]

But I also go to stores. I also go to courtyards. I go to places where music is on the wind. And I hear this stuff all the time.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, that's true. I've always wanted someone to do, like, the data on, like, what is the most common song you're going to hear in any given public environment, Whether it's like an Applebee's or a Walgreens.

[Candace Slim]

I think it's like Sheeran, shape of you. Okay, so I'm gonna back you, Stephen. I listen to the radio. I live in la, so these numbers will only apply to Angelenos. Like, the hottest music. Hottest is 102.7 Kiss FM. And then once you grow up, you go to 104.3 My FM. And then once you're, like, about to die, you go to 103.5 adult contemporary. Tell me, why am I driving to McDonald's on a Tuesday and Ed Sheeran is on 103.5?

[Stephen Thompson]

Right.

[Candace Slim]

Why? But I'm with you, Steven, which is that, like, when you think about the incongruency of, like, why people are mad that certain people didn't win album of the year at the Grammys, it is because this industry, industry and the people listening to it are, like, very different people with different motives. And those radio people, they're basically just trying to find songs to play between ads they're gonna play to their interests and whoever brings in the money. And I'm gonna be honest, if I'm listening to Lizzo on 103.5 or a Coles, I kind of have to take it.

[Glenn Weldon]

I hear what you're saying. Because there was a period of time when one could not enter CVS without hearing Smooth Operator by Sade.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, my God.

[Glenn Weldon]

It's a song I happen to like. It's a pretty good song.

[Aisha Harris]

She has, like, a hundred other songs.

[Stephen Thompson]

But she has so many other songs.

[Glenn Weldon]

That are so good, but separately. That doesn't happen to me anymore. Not because the CVSE's aren't still CVsing, but because I am listening to podcasts on my AirPods as I walk through the aisles of the store.

[Aisha Harris]

I'm the same way. Unfortunately, this hill you die on will.

[Stephen Thompson]

Probably be, oh, I will die on it. It will not.

[Aisha Harris]

It's not a problem, though.

[Stephen Thompson]

This is the hill that will kill me.

[Aisha Harris]

So I guess we'll move on to mine, which I did hint might be a sort of controversial take, I think, because there are so many variabilities involved. And it actually kind of jumps off of yours, Stephen, because it has to do with music. It is listening to music, watching music in public at concerts now Gerald Mission on its face, it's the egalitarian way. Presumably everyone has paid the same or a not too dissimilar price for those tickets and you have the freedom to just move about as you please. You're not beholden to the confines of a seat.

[Glenn Weldon]

You're gonna argue against egalitarianism. Good, good, good. Keep going. Say more.

[Aisha Harris]

Okay, but here's the thing. At concerts and festivals, this arrangement can be a scourge for those of us who are on the short end of the spectrum, who are height challenged, as they say, who must not only deal with the enthusiastically flailing elbows of tall people in their phases, or the increased risk of those tall people getting bumped and then spilling their drink on your head, which has happened to me multiple times, but you also get every boring person who stands for minutes at a time with their arm up in the air taking a bad recording of a performance they're probably never gonna except to post on social media just to say they were there. Now, I have very little faith in humanity and I'm not gonna argue here that like tall people should all of a sudden like stand on the sidelines or like move to the back for a shorties. You can't help how tall you are. And also, as someone who is in a long term inter height relationship, I'm five foot one, he's six foot two. Look, I recognize that there is no perfect solution here, but I think that there is a solution. It's not perfect, but that if we were just a little bit more mindful, if concert venues were a little bit more mindful, there should be sections that are designated for people five' five or shorter. And it can be in any part of the room, preferably closer to the front, maybe on the side or the balconies. You get up just like if you're going to on a roller coaster. You gotta stand next to the thing. You have to.

[Stephen Thompson]

I was gonna say there's like a. You must be this tall to enter this.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes, you must be this tall. And you can choose if you are short to go in there or if you don't care. But I think that there should be some sort of section for people who are short so that they can reasonably enjoy seeing the artists that they want to see.

[Glenn Weldon]

The only way this is ever going to happen, Aisha, is if you incentivize it for them. Are you willing to pay more money for this option?

[Aisha Harris]

You know what, I am in my 30s now, so yeah, I am.

[Candace Slim]

What about like a free T shirt? Like Patreon Style. Like, if you're tall, you get nothing, but if you're short, you get a free T shirt and a toe pack New Yorker.

[Aisha Harris]

I just think, look, I will pay the extra, like, however much for the extra leg room. I sympathize with everyone who's tall and has to ride on these tiny little planes. I just think that there needs to be some sort of way to offer, even if just a small handful of people and we're paying extra, whatever, it's fine. But I also think that, like, the amount of fees that are involved here, they should be just absorbed into the fees that they're already charging everyone.

[Stephen Thompson]

Aisha, I once wrote a call. Oh, I know, about how tall people should be courteous towards shorter people at concerts and maybe move to the back of the room. Maybe just make some arrangements.

[Aisha Harris]

I was actually hoping you would bring this up.

[Stephen Thompson]

I personally, I'm five' ten. My partner's five' ten. We both have somewhat wide hair, so we sometimes try to make arrangements if, for example, we're standing directly in front of people who are shorter than us. I'm not sure I have ever gotten more negative feedback to a thing that I have written in my entire career.

[Aisha Harris]

I did read this article. I came across it while I was doing a little research and you were so nice about it, Steven. And this is again why I say we shouldn't leave it up to the patrons to do this. I don't.

[Stephen Thompson]

But any patron who feels disadvantaged by this will lose their mind if they feel like they are having a right or a privilege taken away from them. Oh, my gosh, I'd love to see the world try.

[Candace Slim]

Yeah, I mean, I back you, Aisha. I guess we're all saying our heights now. I'm five' five on a good day. And my whole thing though is that. You ever seen a big dog who thinks they're small? You know, it's that situation of like, the self awareness needs to also maybe be there a little bit. But I think if we unionize, okay, if we talk to the right people, we can get this off the ground. Aisha.

[Stephen Thompson]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Look, you can take my money if that means that I am going to be able to see Questlove's face from the audience and not have to like, look at someone's phone the whole time.

[Stephen Thompson]

I'm rooting for you, buddy. That's all I can say.

[Aisha Harris]

I realize mine. The chances of this happening are maybe even more.

[Stephen Thompson]

Writing that piece and reading the responses to that piece did not give me a ton of faith.

[Glenn Weldon]

Candace. I think you got the best shot here, A, because there were many tentacles to your thesis. But B, because I think, yeah, the rest of us, it's not gonna happen.

[Aisha Harris]

Ours are pipe dreams, Bas.

[Stephen Thompson]

Ours are also grievances.

[Glenn Weldon]

That's true. Let's serve.

[Aisha Harris]

This is true. This is true. But anyone who wants to get on board with this at me and anyone who doesn't, I don't want to hear from you. I don't want the smoke like Steven got.

[Glenn Weldon]

That'll work.

[Aisha Harris]

Well, those are our pop culture hills. We will die on grievances, you might say, for some of us. And we want to know about the pop culture hill that you would die on. Find [e-mail] PCHH and that brings us to the end of our show, Kansas Slim, Glenn Weldon, Stephen Thompson, thanks so much for being here and, you know, letting us know those things you feel so, so strongly about.

[Stephen Thompson]

Thank you.

[Candace Slim]

Thank you, thank you.

[Aisha Harris]

This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Romel Wood and edited by Mike Katsif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy and hello, Kamin provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris. We'll see you all next time.

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