The Substance

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Episode Summary – "The Substance"

Introduction to "The Substance" In this encore episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Aisha Harris and Glenn Weldon delve into the body horror film The Substance, released on February 13, 2025. The film has garnered significant attention, earning Demi Moore her first Oscar nomination and positioning her as a frontrunner in this year's Best Actress category. The hosts aim to provide a comprehensive analysis of the movie, exploring its themes, performances, and overall impact.

Plot Overview The Substance is described by Glenn Weldon as "a bloody, campy, fiercely feminist and completely bonzo banana pants body horror film" [00:21]. The storyline centers on Demi Moore's character, Elizabeth, a TV aerobics instructor who is abruptly fired upon turning 50 by her sexist boss, portrayed by Dennis Quaid. In a desperate bid to reclaim her spotlight, Elizabeth turns to a black market drug known as "the substance." This drug induces the creation of a younger, separate version of herself named Sue, played by Margaret Qualley. Sue emerges violently from Elizabeth's body, taking over her consciousness, while Elizabeth's body remains dormant. This transformation must occur every seven days without fail, or dire, bloody consequences ensue [00:43].

Performances and Characters Aisha Harris praises Demi Moore's commitment to her role, highlighting the complexity of portraying a character grappling with ageism and self-perception. "Demi Moore goes all in," Harris remarks [05:32], emphasizing that the film's success hinges on Moore's full-throated performance. Margaret Qualley’s portrayal of Sue complements Moore's Elizabeth, embodying the "younger, more desirable version" while also showcasing vulnerability. The dynamic between Elizabeth and Sue illustrates the internal conflict and self-loathing central to the film’s narrative [13:10].

Themes and Analysis The hosts discuss the film’s exploration of themes such as misogyny, patriarchy, and the unrealistic standards of beauty imposed on women, particularly in Hollywood. Aisha Harris notes, "These are unrealistic expectations of like what we think we're supposed to look like" [06:48]. The movie uses body horror as a metaphor for internalized self-hatred and societal pressure. Unlike other films that may focus solely on external antagonists, The Substance internalizes these conflicts by having Elizabeth and Sue essentially be two facets of the same person, exhibiting mutual antipathy and self-loathing [09:02].

Harris contrasts The Substance with Alex Garland’s Men, commending The Substance for its focus on the psychological and emotional toll of misogyny, rather than merely portraying men as antagonists [07:33]. This nuanced approach allows the film to delve deeper into the complexities of female self-perception and societal expectations.

Visual and Technical Aspects Glenn Weldon praises the film’s visual style, describing it as "gorgeous" with a "hyper stylized world" [11:34]. The use of practical effects over CGI gives the film a tactile, visceral quality, enhancing the body horror elements. The director, Coralie Farja, employs techniques such as fisheye lenses to create a disorienting and surreal atmosphere, complementing the film's themes [11:35]. The production design contributes to the film’s satirical take on America, blending elements of an exaggerated Los Angeles with timeless aesthetic cues that make the setting feel both contemporary and nostalgically retro [12:26].

Final Thoughts and Ending The film culminates in a shocking and symbolic finale where Sue transforms into a monstrous entity, spreading blood to implicate the audience in the narrative's critique of societal issues. Aisha Harris reflects on the powerful final shot, noting its quieter, more subdued nature compared to the preceding chaos, which serves as a stark bookend to the film’s opening moments [16:38]. This ending underscores the film’s message that "We are the problem" [16:53].

Glenn Weldon adds that the finale perfectly bookends the film, mirroring the initial scenes and reinforcing the cyclical nature of the issues addressed [17:00]. The hosts agree that The Substance is best viewed with an audience, as its intense and visceral content benefits from shared reactions and collective viewing experiences [18:49].

Conclusion The Substance stands out as an audacious and bold film that leverages body horror to explore deep-seated issues of self-image, aging, and societal pressure on women. Demi Moore’s standout performance, coupled with Coralie Farja’s distinctive directorial choices, make the film a noteworthy contender in the realm of feminist cinema. While its intense and sometimes overwhelming approach may not resonate with all viewers, its thematic depth and visual prowess offer a compelling cinematic experience.

Notable Quotes:

• Glenn Weldon on the film's nature: "The substance is a bloody, campy, fiercely feminist and completely bonzo banana pants body horror film." [00:21]
• Aisha Harris on subtlety: "Subtlety, it's overrated. That could be the tagline for this movie." [04:09]
• Glenn Weldon describing Demi Moore’s performance: "This film would not work if she didn't talk to me about Demi." [05:32]
• Aisha Harris on self-loathing: "Elizabeth does say, I hate myself. Like, it's kind of crucial to what Farjaat is trying to do." [18:14]

Final Remarks The hosts encourage listeners to share their thoughts on The Substance via social media platforms and to support the podcast through subscriptions for an ad-free experience. Produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katzeff, this episode underscores NPR's commitment to in-depth cultural analysis and engaging discussions on contemporary media.

Transcript

[Aisha Harris]

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[Glenn Weldon]

The substance is a bloody, campy, fiercely feminist and completely bonzo banana pants body horror film. Demi Moore plays a TV aerobics instructor who's fired when she turns 50. Desperate to stay in the spotlight, she avails herself of a black market drug, a substance that births from her body, a younger, entirely separate version of herself. Very squelchily.

[Aisha Harris]

The movie's earned Demi Moore her first Oscar nomination and she's the frontrunner in this year's Oscars best Actress race. So we thought it would be the perfect time to revisit our conversation about the movie. I'm Aisha Harris.

[Glenn Weldon]

And I'm Glenn Weldon. And today in this encore episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're revisiting our conversation about the subst.

[Aisha Harris]

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[Glenn Weldon]

Of us today in the same studio.

[Aisha Harris]

Yay.

[Glenn Weldon]

East coast, west coast. Look at this. Look at what's happening. Yes, Kombucha and Dunkin is what's happening right now.

[Aisha Harris]

Wow.

[Glenn Weldon]

The Substance stars Demi Moore as Elizabeth, an actress. Actress turned TV aerobics instructor who's fired from her job by her cartoonishly sexist boss, played by Dennis Quaid. She learns of a mysterious drug she can inject that causes another, younger, entirely separate version of herself to sort of violently splurt out of her back and assume her consciousness. This version names herself Sue. She's played by Margaret Qualley. But whenever sue is out and about living large in these streets, Elizabeth's body lies dormant and vice versa. They must switch back and forth every seven days without exception, or some very bad and bloody and spurty things will happen. Guess what happens? The Substance is directed by French director Coralie Farja. It's her second film after the bloody revenge film Caldwell. Revenge. It is in theaters now. Now, look, this movie doesn't have a twist, per se, but what it does have is one hell of an ending. And hoo boy, do we want to talk about that. So we'll start with general thoughts and give you plenty of warning when we're about ready to go all in on how this movie wraps up. But Ayesha, you wrote the NPR review, a great review. Tell me about this movie.

[Aisha Harris]

Look, Glenn, subtlety, it's overrated. That could be the tagline for this movie. You know, some movies are meant to be all about plot. They're meant to be about deep lore, narratives, all that thing. And some movies, like the Substance, are meant to be visceral, tactile, visceral, fully immersive experiences. And you know, there are moments where I think it goes further than I want it to. And the point is like there from the very beginning up until the very end. And I, you know, this movie is about two and a half hours, a little less than that. Around the two hour mark, I was like, I think I got the point. But overall, I just admire how audacious this film is. And you know, subtlety is not the point. And I appreciate that. What are your thoughts?

[Glenn Weldon]

Well, I mean, what did I text you as soon as I walked out of this theater? Do you remember what I texted you?

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, no, I Don't remember it was like one word.

[Glenn Weldon]

No, it was hoot and a half, which is a term of art that we critics reserve for films that are hoots and a halves. I said camp classic. I said Baby Jane 2024.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

Baby Jane. With a special effects budget. This film is an angry film.

[Aisha Harris]

Oh, it's very angry.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah. And it has the courage of its convictions. It's angry but funny. But Demi Moore goes all in. This film would not work if she didn't talk to me about Demi.

[Aisha Harris]

You said Baby Jane. It is definitely giving late period Bette Davis.

[Glenn Weldon]

It totally is.

[Aisha Harris]

It is also giving, you know, Mommie Dearest, Faye Dunaway, no more wire hangers. Except like add in lots of food.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

Cause this movie is not just about body parts, but it's also about relationship to the body and food. And there's something funny about Demi Moore who is, you know, in her early 60s playing a 50 year old who is ousted. Which to me says a about, you know, how we perceive womanhood, especially in Hollywood. And I think it's interesting because like in the real world she does not look her age or like how we expect someone her age to look like. But of course, like we think of someone like Demi Moore or even, you know, J. Lo, Halle Berry. They are these ideals of hotness, you know, it's because they don't look their age. And so I think when you think about those layers and what Moore is doing here, fully committing. But also it's just like at the same time, look at the way you look. And those are unrealistic expectations of like what we think we're supposed to look like. I think she's great and I think that like you said, we need her to commit and she goes full throated. These are not like well written characters. And I don't mean that as a slight. We don't know really anything about these characters.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right.

[Aisha Harris]

So it really calls upon her and Margaret Qualley to really give the vibe, give what Farja is doing here. And I think they deliver.

[Glenn Weldon]

They do. And I want to pick up on two things you just said. First of all, the thinness of these characterizations. This movie won best Screenplay at the Cannes Film Festival. And it's not because there's a lot of Wildian wordplay here. This is not a talky script. This is a very squelchy script. And in fact, when I see this again at home, and I will. And I'll turn on the subtitles because I will. Squelchy noises is gonna be a Lot is gonna be a lot of the subtitles. Yes. But you also brought up something about feminine self loathing in your review. And what happens here is these two people are the same person, but they have this mutual antipathy toward each other, which becomes what the film's about.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes.

[Glenn Weldon]

And that self loathing, externalized is kind of the through line that goes through the entire film.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. And I think that's what makes this such a unique film. One of the films that came to mind when watching this and after the fact was Alex Garland's Men.

[Glenn Weldon]

Okay.

[Aisha Harris]

Remember that movie? We actually did it. We did an episode on it. I was not high on this film. And part of the. Part of the reason why was because that movie, same kind of concept of, like, we're gonna pummel you over this, like, with this idea and just lots of vibes. And there's also, like, some really disgusting body horror in that movie. But the issue for me with that movie is that, you know, it's this perspective of, like. And what we get out of a lot of MeToo stories of, like, we're just gonna talk about how terrible men are and we're gonna, you know, keep hammering that home. And I think the genius of this film, of the substance that this is really focused on, you know, the Dennis Quaid character is on the periphery. He's only in a handful of scenes. It's really. He's the catalyst. And then it's all about how the psychological and, like, emotional toll of what men have done and of misogyny and the patriarchy and all those things, the internal becomes external in every way possible. And I think that is the key difference and why this movie works so much better. Even though they're kind of coming at the same sort of, like, conclusion about how terrible misogyny is.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right. I would push back a little bit because I think men's target was misogyny. This film's targets are all over the damn place. Well, let's tick them off. Patriarchy kind of writ large. The beauty industry, plastic surgery in particular. What else? America. This is kind of a satire of America from an outsider's perspective, from a very French perspective, I think. And the thing that you also brought up in your review is when you go this big and you're satirizing, when do you stop satirizing? And when do you just start doing something else where you're not really being incisive? Right. You're not using a scalpel, you're using a sledgehammer. This film is definitely in the sledgehammer category. But what happens to the satire when you go that big?

[Aisha Harris]

I mean, for me, it got to the point where my senses were just completely dulled and I was just like, okay, but are we saying anything new here? And I do think it kind of fumbles in the last third act where we've got. We've reached like the pinnacle of what we're gonna do. But then we just keep going even further as it was. I was just kind of like, this is. I get it. I guess in my older age as well, I feel like I get even less. I'm less desensitized in a way by violence. And there is a lot of just like violence upon the self in a way that was just too much for me. But I can also see why other people might just be like, this is a vibe. I'm gonna go with it. I'm all in. And I also, again, I think that the idea of this internal, just how much self loathing you have, I mean, there is a moment, and I think there is a moment in this film that like, is quieter but really, really works well. In Hammer's Home, Hammer's pommels all these things. The point that she's making where, you know, the Elizabeth character, Demi Moore's character, is asked out on a date and she spends a long time getting ready for that date, there's a lot of standing in front of the mirror, you know, looking at your skin and how like, not supple it looks anymore, like seeing the wrinkles and then looking at your whole body. And I'm not 50 yet, but I have already started to feel those things and I've already been in that exact position. And to me, like, I love the way just like that very sort of quiet, ish moment in the film gets that point across completely.

[Glenn Weldon]

I felt that because it was dealing with something real. But the rest of this film, as you allude to, it's a very hyper stylized world. It's like an LA that doesn't actually exist. You know, the production design is gorgeous.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

But it also, we're living in a world where there's pagers and USB drives. And the triggering action for this movie is TV ratings for an aerobics daytime show.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, she's like a Jane Fonda esque.

[Glenn Weldon]

And also you have the Dennis Quaid character giving this very stylized performance. You know, the director uses the fisheye lens a lot and Dennis Quaid leans into the fisheye lens, but even when he's not leaning into the fisheye lens, he's Giving a very fisheye lens performance. It's very. At one point, I actually watched him prancing across the screen. And the only real people in this movie are Elizabeth and Sue. Everybody else is a cartoon. And so the film itself becomes a cartoon. And I guess it is the director's point. I want to slice away at this beauty standard and expose. Or is it just to make everybody in the audience squirm and laugh? Which, you know, a mission accomplished.

[Aisha Harris]

At the risk of being boring, I do think it's a little bit of both. And the question is, like, can she actually have it both ways? And I think it's just really, your mileage may vary. I think some people might be able to see both. And I think some people might just be like, this is just too much. But I like that sort of disorienting sense of, like, what time period are we in? Because I think there's a way, like, if I was gonna put on my, like, we're in film school hat, and we're gonna analyze everything about this, I think.

[Glenn Weldon]

Go on.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, I think there's a way where you're just like, Well, I think the reason why we don't really know what time period it is is because everything comes back to itself and we're always repeating. And we still feel like we live in this, like, 80s era, even though we are in the present day.

[Glenn Weldon]

All right, so we touched on Demi. Let's talk about Margaret Qualley, who's the other half of this film.

[Aisha Harris]

She has even, I feel, like, less of a character, of course, because, like, she is born out of Elizabeth. So there's also the sense that, again, she is the younger person. She is the more, quote, unquote, perfect, desirable version. And I think this movie has a lot of nudity, but none of it is, I don't think, enticing. It's not meant to be enticing. There's moments in front of the mirror, and the first time she emerges out of Elizabeth's body, she spends a long time looking in the mirror and just being like, oh, man, look at this. Look at. And I love the way there's this contrast between, you know, the younger version feeling, not having those feelings yet of not being perfect or not being good. And I think Kweli, she's clearly playing that role in a way that I think is very dynamic and interesting.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah. This film goes hard on practical effects. There might be some CGI in there somewhere, but it really feels like these are physical, tactile, puppety, gross, tumor kind of things. Going on. I also like the logistics of the substance, how you get it, how you administer it.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, it's cool.

[Glenn Weldon]

It's very cool. And it's something that might be contributing to the fact that it won screenplay because this film escalates. It doesn't, as we said, it doesn't twist and it goes bigger and bigger, but it builds in moments like that moment you talked about in front of the mirror. Moments where we figure out exactly how we do these logistics of administering the drug that don't ground it. I wouldn't call this a grounded film in a million years, but give you something to hold onto as the film's getting bigger and bigger.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, I think for me there's a world in which you could see this movie playing out where the substance is like she has to go see like a plastic surgeon or a doctor or whatever. And the fact that it's self administered. Yeah, that's a good point. Kind of adds to this just like layer of how unscientific this is. And it kind of relates to this sort of trend that we have of mostly women going to get, you know, bbls like butt injections and whatever, and going to different countries to do it. And there's a person who she calls on the phone various times and we only hear the voice of this person. We never see them. There is world building here. Even if the characters are not fully fledged out, there is a sense of what this world is, even if that world is like very disorienting and confusing.

[Glenn Weldon]

But it does keep going. You're right, it does keep going and going. It keeps going until we get to the ending. And here, folks, is where we're going to not spoil the ending, but talk about the ending. Because you can kind of see where this movie's going from the jump. And it goes there, it goes there big. It goes there hard. She becomes a monster. She becomes like a tumor with teeth. What'd you think of that?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah, it was one of those things where I was just thinking to myself, I just gotta go with it. This is. What are we doing here? I guess we're gonna keep going. At one point, someone in the audience literally yells, there's a monster. She's a monster. I'm like, okay, this is. We're doing very Mary Shelley, Frankenstein. Like, let's. Why? This is where I kind of tuned out. But also the thing that I found more interesting was the final shot, which sort of mimics the opening shots. There's a lot of shots that are sort of the camera's Directly above. And it happens for several moments. And after she's become this monster and basically exploded all over the audience, spreading blood.

[Glenn Weldon]

Spreading blood all over the audience to implicate them. We get it.

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. We are the problem. It's us. It's us. We are the problem. She just kind of becomes this glob that I think is supposed to look like a Medusa head.

[Glenn Weldon]

A blob with a face.

[Aisha Harris]

A blob with a face. And also kind of looks like a cracked egg. And eggs are a big part of this film.

[Glenn Weldon]

That's true.

[Aisha Harris]

And she just kind of crawls across the ground, goes outside onto her Hollywood star. I loved that final shot in part because it does feel kind of quieter. I guess I wasn't expecting it to, comparatively.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aisha Harris]

It's relatively quieter or just like, just a little bit more subdued than everything that immediately preceded it. It's a shocking final image. You know, there's plenty of movies and shows that I've done. Like, the final image where the character's looking into the camera. This is, I think, taking it in a different direction that I think totally works, and I really dug it. But I'm curious what you thought about it. How did that feel to you?

[Glenn Weldon]

I thought it was a perfect bookend. Right. I mean, it's exactly how, like, I couldn't figure out how this film was gonna end. I mean, I knew something bad and splurty and squelchy was gonna happen. I didn't expect that to be such a mirrored thing. And at the very beginning of the film, she uses that shot to take us through the passage of time as Elizabeth's star fades. Right. And her Hollywood star gets cracked and overrun.

[Aisha Harris]

At one point, it's snowing for some reason, in la.

[Glenn Weldon]

This is when I knew. This is when I knew. Okay, what's going on here?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

Did you think that the Dennis Quaid character needed more of a comeuppance, given how awful, cartoonishly awful he is? He's just one of the people in the audience who gets sprayed with blood.

[Aisha Harris]

And this is where I kind of come back to, you know, the movie Men, but also just what we're supposed to expect from these types of stories. And I kind of like that he didn't get a comeuppance because, again, it's not about him. It is, but it's not about him. It is about how much women, we have been taught to hate ourselves. And at one point, Elizabeth does say, I hate myself. Like, it's kind of crucial to what Farjaat is trying to do. What do we do with that information? I don't know. But yeah, I loved it.

[Glenn Weldon]

You liked it. Would you agree, though, that the most important thing if you're gonna see this film is to see it with a crowd?

[Aisha Harris]

Yes. I do think it is the type of movie that you need to see with a lot of other people.

[Glenn Weldon]

Right?

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah.

[Glenn Weldon]

And even if you wait to see it is when it gets on streaming, see it with friends so that some of your friends will be crawling behind the couch and holding the cushions up to their face as things happen. But. But that's the fun part of this movie.

[Aisha Harris]

Yeah. I have to say, like, I'm not the type of person who puts my fingers over my hand. I just kind of look down and I was looking down for a lot of it. It's like I can't. I can't. And covering my ears because again, the sound design is on a whole nother level.

[Glenn Weldon]

Yep. The secret is always to look at the lower left hand corner of the screen. Just the lower left hand corner. Nothing ever happens down there. That's my secret to you.

[Aisha Harris]

Thank you.

[Glenn Weldon]

Tell us what you think about the substance. Find us on [e-mail] and that brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, thanks so much for being here. Thank you, Glenn, being here with me in person, irl. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour plus is a great way to support our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org happyhour or visit the link in our show Notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katzeff. Our super supervising producer is Jessica Reedy and hello. Come in. Provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon and we'll see you all tomorrow.

[Aisha Harris]

Support for NPR and the following message come from Bolan Branch. Change your sleep with the softness of Bole Branch's 100% organic cotton sheets. Feel the difference with 15% off your first set of [e-mail] with code NPR exclusions apply. See site for details. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you. With plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

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