Loading summary
Transcript74 lines
- [00:00]
Advertiser
This message comes from Discover, accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. If you don't think so, maybe it's time to face facts. You're stuck in the past. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, more@discover.com credit card.
- [00:20]
Glen Weldon
Thunderbolts is the latest Marvel movie, and this one's a bit more fun than they have been lately. It stars Florence Pugh, Sebastian Stan, David Harbour and others as a bunch of emotionally broken super people who've done some varia bad things. Will they manage to put their guilt aside and come together to form a ragtag team of losers who somehow manage to save the day? Are you seriously asking that question in 2025? I'm Glen Weldon, and today we're talking about Thunderbolts on Pop Culture Happy hour from NPR. Joining me today is Ronald Young, Jr. He's the host of the Film and Television review podcast Leaving the Theater. Hello, Ronald.
- [00:54]
Ronald Young Jr.
Hello, Glenn.
- [00:55]
Glen Weldon
Hello. Also with us is Daisy Rosario. She's the senior supervising producer of audio at Slate, where she works with shows like Death, Sex and Money and Icy. Hey, Daisy.
- [01:05]
Daisy Rosario
Hey, Glenn. Happy to be here.
- [01:06]
Glen Weldon
Happy to have you. Rounding out the panel is Jordan Morris. He's a writer and podcaster who contributed to the comics anthology Godzilla vs America Los Angeles, which is a charity project for LA wildfire relief. Hey, Jordan.
- [01:18]
Jordan Morris
Hey, hey, hey, hey.
- [01:19]
Glen Weldon
Let's get to it. In Thunderbolts with an asterisk long story, Florence Pugh returns as the former Black Widow agent Yelena. She's still reeling from her sister's death and feeling pretty crappy about her work as a covert operator for the CIA director named Valentina. Played by Julia Louis Dreyfus, Valentina is determined to cover up a secret project that somehow involves a squirrely guy named Bob, played by Lewis Pullman. But her attempt only succeeds in bringing together her other secret operatives, including an off brand Captain America. Yelena's father, the Red Guardian, played by David Harbour, along with Ghost, whom you probably forgot was in ant Man 2, because I totally did, but she totally was. Eventually, the team tries to take down Valentina and her project, whose superpower is wielding guilt, shame and depression as a weapon. I dated a guy like that in my 20s. Thunderbolts is in theaters now. Jordan, let's kick off with you. What'd you think?
- [02:13]
Jordan Morris
Yeah, I really had fun watching this. I think if you are someone who has tapped out on the mcu, I don't think this will bring you back in. It still has some of those frustrating things that I think Keep people out of these movies these days. It has characters you have to remember. Ant man sequels and Disney shows and mobile games that have only come out in Wales to recognize. But I think that if you are still into this stuff and if you love this cast, I think you're gonna have a blast here with Marvel. One of their great strengths has always been casting. And I think everybody in here is really, really fun to watch. Florence Pugh in particular.
- [02:53]
Glen Weldon
Mm, I agree with that.
- [02:55]
Daisy Rosario
Yeah, I'd agree. I enjoyed this movie more than I was expecting to. And that's not to say that I went in with crazy low expectations. You know, I was a really big, big fan of. A lot of the Marvel movies leading up to Endgame have been, I think, rightfully frustrated with the lack of quality and kind of more them forgetting kind of what really worked about their own movies at various points. But I really thought this one was a lot of fun. I thought they did do a good return to some of the things that they used to do well, where this felt like the humor was more based in the characters. It didn't feel like just the regular kind of overly Marvel quippy jokes. Like they kind of let the humor live in other places and built around character dynamics. I also really, really liked Florence Pugh and I just found myself very charmed by her. I think this movie would have hit harder for me if they hadn't had so many other misses that I found really frustrating. I think I would have just enjoyed it even more. But I actually. I thought it was a pretty good time.
- [03:57]
Ronald Young Jr.
I just did like it. I thought the first act was very, very boring. I thought we've done a team up of ragtag superheroes or antiheroes in the Marvel univers with the Guardians of the Galaxy. So you had the blueprint to do it. The idea of, like, we're supposed to work together, we split apart, somehow we come back together in a very, like, meaningful way. I feel like this maybe kind of alluded to that a little bit, but didn't quite get there. For me, I think that David Harbour was funny and I do think that Florence Pugh was charming. I think that somehow all of them together, I didn't necessarily feel chemistry. And I think the thing that gets me the most about Marvel movies is rewatchability. Like, I wanna watch them over and over again. I don't ever wanna watch this mov. There was nothing in this movie that I'm like, oh, man, I gotta see that one more time. The other thing, and the last thing I'll say is when you have a threat of this size over New York doing something that is this scary in the city for it not to even be mentioned. Like, hey, this feels familiar, guys. I feel like that feels like an oversight. And that might be some of the bloat that comes with connecting to the other films, but it just didn't have that much goodwill for me. And I feel like I walked into this movie being like, I expect this to be about a mid movie. And for me, it did not hit mid for me. And I want y'all to know I'm not an MCU hater. I am an MCU Stan. And I felt disappointed here.
- [05:15]
Jordan Morris
Ronald, I understand your argument that we do have to acknowledge how often New York is getting attacked in these movies. Do you think it would have helped if a cab driver would have turned to camera and said, here we go again.
- [05:28]
Ronald Young Jr.
That would. Honestly, Jordan, I know you're kidding, but that would have been fine if they would have been like, not this again, or something along the line. Because I think the humanity of the people. Anything like that. Because I feel like the humanity of the people is completely like, for instance, during the limo chase scene, there's a scene where they're being chased by these people in Humvees. It's in the preview and I realize if you watch that scene again, you don't see a human driving the Humvees until the very last second. I was like, do we care about them or these people? And I felt like that element just made me say, okay, well then I expect more from the ensemble. And then feel like I didn't get that. Except again for David Harbour, bless him. And again, Florence Pugh was wonderful. I agree with those points. Just the rest of it wasn't there for me.
- [06:13]
Daisy Rosario
I will say though that when the world has gone crazy for so long, you stop remarking on the day to day craziness.
- [06:21]
Glen Weldon
Yeah, that's certainly true.
- [06:22]
Ronald Young Jr.
That's valid.
- [06:23]
Jordan Morris
Sure.
- [06:24]
Glen Weldon
Look, I'm going to go with mid here. I think this slots neatly into what Marvel's been doing. I do think it does it better than a lot of the recent stuff because I do think these jokes land better and I think that has to do with delivery. I'll talk about that. But my reaction slots in neatly with a lot of my reaction to a lot of Marvel stuff lately, which is dug the jokes. The emo stuff at the end especially left me cold. But man, I do like Florence Pugh's take on Yelena. You've all mentioned it. She does great things which what now has become the Marvel brand of humor, which is, I guess, Jordan, you'd call it, what, de escalation, right, where there's some ridiculous trope about superhero stuff. And the joke is, I'm gonna point out how ridiculous it is.
- [07:00]
Jordan Morris
Sure.
- [07:01]
Glen Weldon
And that's the joke. And then the thing, it is, though, that Florence Pugh does that. She tosses them away. She never lunges at them. She never underlines them. It's the. The only way that kind of joke can work, especially when it's as wall to wall as it is in this movie. Are you listening, Ryan Reynolds? No, I know for a fact you're not, because I saw Deadpool, Wolverine.
- [07:21]
Jordan Morris
You have gin to sell, Ryan Reynolds.
- [07:24]
Glen Weldon
I enjoy this along the way. But then we get to what, as I suppose is inevitable when you stock your film with this many emotionally damaged people, which is you get the final battle as therapy session, the Good Will Hunting ending. The it's not your fault.
- [07:36]
Ronald Young Jr.
Inside out two.
- [07:37]
Glen Weldon
Inside out two. And on paper, sure. The reason people who complain about superhero fat, what they say that they don't like is it's all cosmic stakes. There's no human emotional stakes. I think this is an overcorrection. I think this is all human emotional stakes. And when you end with a mental health reconciliation, I'm sorry, to me, it's giving cw. It's giving Buffy supernatural charm. Season finale. And that's not necessarily a dig, but it's just a reference to how often this has been done. There's no meat left on that particular bone.
- [08:08]
Jordan Morris
I will say, I think the filmmakers would say that this is a movie about depression. And I think in a lot of ways it does appear. And I think, you know, the thing you mentioned about Florence Pugh is she's kind of throwing this stuff away. And I think it is a funny delivery. But I also think it fits with her character. Like, she is a super spy who is bored with her life and wants something more. And I think that's a fun kind of character that we haven't seen in these movies before. A lot of the comic book characters these days are kind of just like generic super guy and occasionally generic super gal. She's bringing a little bit of spice to this. It is a very funny way to deliver a joke that I'm bored. But also, I think it fits with the character and the theme of this movie. And I think by the end, it does get a little sweaty. The. This is about depression. It goes from a little spice in the movie to, you know, you're getting bonked on the head by it. But I do think it's neat to see one of these movies with something on its mind other than, like, I don't know, maybe the theme is always do your best. Or maybe the theme is family is important. It is nice to see one of these with stuff on its mind. And it's nice to see a third act that isn't like, we gotta close the portal or two people with beam weapons shoot the beam weapons at each other and they hit in the middle. And eventually one beam weapon overcomes the other one. So you can definitely quibble about how that stuff was accomplished, but I kind of appreciated that it was there. And I think it hit sometimes.
- [09:37]
Daisy Rosario
Yeah, it didn't bother me. For me, that's kind of the stuff that I actually am more inclined towards. I enjoy that more than some of the other options that are out there. You know, maybe it's because of my own cptsd, but I'm like, this never leaves yet. It's exhausting. But also, again, like, for me, thematically, I was thinking of it less as depression, which is definitely very clearly there as well. And more of a larger, like, mental health thing. And also, you know, feeling very aware that we're living in a time where we keep talking about how, like, we need more community rather than isolation. That's how we're gonna get through life right now. And so, to me, it just felt it had its finger on the pulse, if you will, in a way that is not always true for some of these Marvel movies. But I just really felt like it was justified in some of the characters. And I also felt like Lewis Pullman had a good performance. I enjoyed him as well. I appreciated how much he looks like his dad. Bill Pullman, who I have nothing but affection for, did not know that was.
- [10:39]
Ronald Young Jr.
His father till today. Now I get it.
- [10:41]
Daisy Rosario
Yeah. I do have one last thing that I need to point out because my brain got so excited by how stupid it is, which is just. This is Lewis Pullman's second major role as a Bob. He's just Bob in this movie. And he was in Top Maverick as the only person who had a call sign that was not, like, an interesting name. His name was Bob. So I don't know what it is about him being Bob, where half the joke is just that the name Bob doesn't quite convey the strength of his character. But I like that trivia.
- [11:17]
Ronald Young Jr.
If it works, it works.
- [11:18]
Jordan Morris
You need a Bob, give me a call.
- [11:20]
Ronald Young Jr.
I don't know. I'm watching mcu movies because I like the punching and kicking and I like the quips and all of that, you know? And I feel like at one point in the movie, they show up as a team and start beating the crap out of these soldiers. And I was like, finally, just give me this for the third act. And I feel like when it slipped out of that into something else, and then eventually when it resolves at whatever place. Glenn, I'm like, you saying what? Like, where did this happen?
- [11:46]
Glen Weldon
Where were you?
- [11:46]
Jordan Morris
All the friends we made along the way.
- [11:48]
Ronald Young Jr.
Correct.
- [11:49]
Daisy Rosario
Which I'm like, yeah, that's the thing. I like both parts, you know, But.
- [11:53]
Ronald Young Jr.
I feel like you get that in Guardians of the Galaxy when they hold hands in order to disperse the Infinity Stone. I'm like, you get a little taste of that, which is like seasoning, as opposed to just being like, we're gonna do all that, which is just a pot of seasoning. No liquid, just seasonings.
- [12:08]
Daisy Rosario
I just don't agree.
- [12:10]
Glen Weldon
Can we talk about Julia Louis Dreyfus? I really like what she brings to the mcu, and in interview, she's mentioned how she was eage to get into this. You know, she's done previous things for Marvel with this character because it's something she'd never done before. She says, I'm sorry, she might not have done Marvel movies before, but this is Selina Meyer. This is Selina Meyer in a Josie and the Pussycats Alexandra wig. There is no daylight between Selina Meyer and Valentina. She treats her underlings exactly the same way. She's just as scheming and just as funny.
- [12:41]
Ronald Young Jr.
Yeah. Daisy and I left the theater and said the exact same thing. We said, there's no difference here. Which is fine. I love Selina Meyer and I love Julia Louis Dreyfus. But is it a big deal that it's Selina Meyer? I guess is the real question.
- [12:53]
Jordan Morris
Does this lead to Tony Hale playing Colossus at some point? If that happens, we'll all be excited. Kevin Feige, Call me. I've got ideas.
- [13:06]
Daisy Rosario
It's hard for Julia Louis Dreyfuss to do any wrong, honestly. She's just. She's great.
- [13:11]
Jordan Morris
She's fun to watch.
- [13:11]
Daisy Rosario
She is great.
- [13:12]
Jordan Morris
I do think that these movies do have villain problems a lot. The villains can be kind of generic, and it is nice to see a villain that has a thing and is funny and is, you know, kind of complicated. So, yeah, I like her a lot. You know, even though this is a lane that she's driven in before.
- [13:28]
Ronald Young Jr.
When you talk about the villain it just occurred to me that in terms of the villain in this movie, this villain is not very different from the villain in Doctor Strange and the multiverse of madness in terms of, like, the type of temperament that is causing the issue and the darkness with everything, because these superheroes are all punching and K. You know what I mean? It just felt like, why wouldn't we give someone that matches that that they can actually defeat, as opposed to having to rely on the power of friendship?
- [13:59]
Jordan Morris
I do realize that we're talking about this movie in terms of all the other movies, and it's hard not to when things are this interconnected and this kind of all consuming. But when these started, they were pretty reliable and sturdy. You kind of knew what you were gonna get. And even the ones that were a triple and not a home run were still really fun. And I think that we are now in a state where they got cranked out too fast, but I think we're now in a phase where they're just gonna be more hit and miss. And I think if you're out there and you're going, oh, my God, do I see this one? Just pay attention to your reviews a little closer. It's maybe not something you're just automatically buying a ticket to on opening nights. Yeah. But I do still think there is a lot of fun in this franchise. And if you don't mind it skipping some things and then maybe doing a little Wikipedia research before you go into the movie. No, I think there's still a lot of fun here.
- [14:51]
Glen Weldon
Yeah. And not to spoil anything, but the very final exchange of dialogue in this film is about diluted branding and not living up to a name. And I have to feel that that is intentional. I have to feel that they knew exactly what they were doing there and that that is a setup to Phase six, whatever the hell that means.
- [15:12]
Daisy Rosario
Oh, yeah. I definitely feel like they were like, look, we can't fix everything, but we need you to know we have heard some of what you said. Not all of what you said, but some of what you said.
- [15:22]
Jordan Morris
Phase six, it's coming. And it's all musicals.
- [15:28]
Glen Weldon
Again from your mouth, man. I mean, like, I would not hate again.
- [15:31]
Jordan Morris
I got ideas.
- [15:32]
Glen Weldon
All right, well, tell us what you think about thunderbolts. Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on Letterboxd@letterboxd.com NPRpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what's making us happy this week?
- [15:49]
Advertiser
This message comes from Thuma. Create your oasis with Thuma, a modern design company that specializes in furniture and home goods by stripping away everything but the essential. Thuma makes elevated beds with premium materials and intentional details with clean lines, subtle curves and minimalist style. The Thuma Bed Collection is available in four signature finishes to match any design aesthetic. To get $100 towards your first bed purchase, go to Thuma Co NP this.
- [16:19]
Message comes from HomeTap what if you could use your home equity to pay off your debt without monthly payments so you could focus on reaching your other financial goals? With a home equity investment from Hometap, you can get access to your home equity in cash, get closer to financial freedom and get more out of life. Learn more and see if you pre qualify for an investment@hometap.com that's hometap.com this message comes from Amica Insurance. As Amica says, empathy is our best policy. Whether you're seeking auto, home or life coverage, they'll work with you to choose the policy that best serves you and your family. Discover how Amica can help protect what matters most to you today. Go to amica.com and get a quote today.
- [17:07]
This message comes from BetterHelp. Therapy can be expensive, but at BetterHelp they believe therapy should feel accessible, not like a luxury. Which is why they offer quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. Your mental health is worth it and now it's within reach. Visit betterhelp.com NPR to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com NPR this message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all. Plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for yourself@mintmobile.com Switch now it is.
- [17:51]
Glen Weldon
Time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What is making us happy this week? Jordan Morris, kick us off. What's making you happy this week, sir?
- [17:58]
Jordan Morris
Yeah, I want to recommend a graphic novel that you can grab when you're out there at your local comic book store picking up your thunderbolts issues to bone up for the movie. I just read a great graphic novel called you'd Belong Here. Written by Sarah Phoebe Miller, illustrated by Morgan Beam. It is kind of a YA coming of age story about senior year of high school. It just does like a really great job of capturing just how like emotionally fraught and like hyper specific that year is. Yeah, it's got really really lovely art and I think it'd make a Great graduation gift. If you've got anybody in that age range in your life. Super bonus points in if they're a theater kid because there's a lot of great jokes and observations about being a theater kid, which I really appreciate it. Yeah, it's called you'd belong here and it's great.
- [18:46]
Glen Weldon
Thank you very much, Jordan Morris. That sounds great. Daisy, Rosario, what is making you happy this week?
- [18:51]
Daisy Rosario
So, what's making me happy? I was recently scrolling through YouTube as I am want to do, and I came across this video that's part of a series that I've really enjoyed before. It's called I Like to Watch, and It is a YouTube series, essentially a Netflix sponsorship, where drag queens who have been on RuPaul's Drag Race watch Netflix releases and talk about them. The US version features Katya and Trixie Mattel, but the one I came across was the UK version, and it was an episode with Tia Coffey and the Vivienne, who is a fantastic drag queen who actually just recently passed away. She's so funny. So I. I immediately hit play on this video because they were talking about the thing that is actually making me happy, which is not a new movie, but it makes me so happy every time I'm reminded of it. Eurovision Song Contest, the Story of Fire Saga.
- [19:47]
Glen Weldon
Okay.
- [19:48]
Daisy Rosario
I love this ridiculous Will Ferrell Rachel McAdams movie on Netflix. I have watched it a bunch of times. I will watch it many more. It was so fun to watch these two queens who I love watch a truncated version of it and make very good jokes. And then of course, I had to actually go watch it again. It is such a treat. The Eurovision Song Contest itself, I know PCHHH has covered before. It's coming up just a few weeks away, so this could be a fantastic way to whet your appetite. I love it. So the main recommendation is Netflix's Eurovision Song Contest, the Story of Fire Saga movie. You know, technically a secondary recommendation of watching this YouTube series. I like to watch with the queens Tia Coffey and the Vivienne. Rest in peace. The Vivienne.
- [20:38]
Glen Weldon
That is a great recommendation. Thank you for that, Daisy. I was down on the Eurovision Movie when it first came out. Cause I thought, why would we make fun of something that knows how to make fun of itself? But I have since come around. It's great. And Husavik should have won the Oscar for best Song. Well, that leads me directly into my recommendation because I think, Daisy, you can feel it in the air. You can smell the smoke and the glitter and the sequin glue and the dance belts and the sweat. That is the smell of Eurovision, baby. And it's bearing down on us all. The 2025 Eurovision Final will air on Peacock on Saturday, May 17. It is the 69th Eurovision Song Contest, and some countries are having a bit more fun with that than others. There's a lot of songs with very kind of cheesy single entendres this year, but you gotta deal with that. My favorite entry plays a lot more straight. It's from Sweden, and that's controversial because historically, Sweden are the Yankees of Eurovision. I had to look that reference up. They win a lot is what I'm saying, but I can't help it. I love Sweden's entry. They're actually a Finnish group called Kai. They are singing in Swedish, which turns out to be a big deal because it's the first time Sweden has said a song in Swedish since 1998. The song is called Bada Bada Bastu and it's about going to the sauna. Because of course it is. In case you're wondering, because I'm sure you are, the lyrics there are, we're gonna sauna, sauna Steam it up and let go of all stress today Sauna brothers we're the ones who glow 100 degrees oh, yes Just sauna, sauna Throw it on till the sweat just sprays Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Sauna, yeah, yeah. At that point, one of the band members just goes sauna. Which is an interjection that has gotten a lot of use in the Weldon Nunez household for no reason. Just throw in the sauna every so often and your day will get better. Eurovision is on Peacock on Saturday, May 17th. All right, let's close out with Ronald Young Jr. Ronald Young Jr. What is making you happy this week?
- [22:55]
Ronald Young Jr.
I feel like my pick is just not as good as the Eurovision double.
- [22:59]
Glen Weldon
Feature we just had, but few things.
- [23:03]
Ronald Young Jr.
Are, I will say. Speaking of sequins, glue and sweat. Andor is back on Disney. I think Andor is the best thing Star wars has made since the original trilogies, if I'm being honest. It's a boots on the ground version of the Star wars universe where we're talking about people that are actually in the rebel rebellion experiencing the oppression of the Empire. It's a spin off of Rogue One, if folks liked that movie. But it's back for season two. And it's funny because they're advertising it as the final season, which I love that they're ending it. It's over. Meaning that it has a great shot of ending very, very well. I watched the first three episodes. I was perfectly satisfied with them. I know they're going on a journey. And I feel like if you're not a fan of Star Wars, I think you would still like Andor. And if you are a fan of Star wars and you don't like Andor, then I'm wondering, what exactly do you like about Star Wars? And I'm assuming it's the space wizards and the laser swords, which some people prefer. So if that's your jam, then that's what it is. But that's andor on Disney.
- [24:06]
Jordan Morris
All right.
- [24:06]
Glen Weldon
So Ronald Young Jr. That's what's making you happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter@npr.org popculturenewsletter that brings us to the end of our show, Day Zero Sario. Ronald Young, Jr. Jordan Morris, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here.
- [24:21]
Daisy Rosario
Thank you.
- [24:21]
Ronald Young Jr.
Great to be here.
- [24:22]
Jordan Morris
Yeah. This was a blast. Thank you so much.
- [24:24]
Glen Weldon
This episode was produced by Mike Katsif and Liz Metzger and edited by Jessica Riddi. And hello. Come in provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next week. Soda.
- [24:39]
Advertiser
This message comes from Warby Parker. What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your pair@warbyparker.com or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from Bombas. Nearly 30% of marathoners end their race blistered. Bombas running socks are strategically cushioned to help. Say bye to blisters. Run to bombus.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off your first purchase.
- [25:13]
This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right. NPR listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different languages for 50% off. Learn more at RosettaStone.com NPR.