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- [00:00]
A
Support for this podcast and the following message come from 20th Century Studios presenting Deliver Me From Nowhere starring Golden Globe winner Jeremy Allen White and Academy Award nominee Jeremy Strong Springsteen Deliver Me from Nowhere only in theaters October 24th. Tickets available now.
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B
Call it a soft reboot. Tron Ares is the third film in the Tron franchise, but it's not a direct sequel, so you can go in pretty clean. What's important is that it flips the script. Instead of humans entering the digital world, this movie sees human shaped artificial intelligence programs entering our world. It stars Jared Leto as an AI soldier, Greta Lee as a CEO trying to save the world, and Evan peters as a CEO trying to 3D print an army or something. I'm Glenn Weldon and today we're talking about Ares on Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. Joining me today is Jordan Crucciola. She's a writer and producer and the host of the podcast Feeling Seen on Maximum Fun. Welcome back to.
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C
Thank you so much for having me. On the occasion of Tron.
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B
On the occasion of Tron. Wouldn't think of anybody else. Also with us is the co host of Slate's icymi podcast and former Pop Culture Happy Hour producer Candice Lim, showing her face around here. Hey, Candace.
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C
Hi.
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B
Hey. All right, let's get into it. In Tron Aries, Greta Lee is Eve. She's a programmer trying to bring objects from the digital world into the real world to help save lives. The problem? Digital objects can't survive in our world longer than 29, 9 minutes. Meanwhile, a rival programmer played by Evan Peters is using the same tech to bring digital objects into the real world. Only you can tell he's evil because instead of food sources and disease cures, he's bringing tanks and lasers and light cycles. And here is the real issue, AI soldiers. These include the by the book badass Athena, played by Jody Turner Smith, and the soulful broody questioning his programming Aries, played by Jared Leto. Peter's evil programmer wants to ensure that his 3D printed armies can survive the 29 minute threshold. So he sics his soldiers on Eve who has finally found the secret the so called permanence code. Tron Ares is in theaters now. Jordan, kick us off. What'd you make of Tron Ares?
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C
I had a fun time at Tron Aries. I love Tron. This is like the height of visual cool to me. So what I needed from Tron Aries was to look like Tron and it looked like Tron. And listen, I've never been a Jordan Catalano girly, a day in my life and that guy's still doing that thing, whether he's being a human facsimile or he's being a human himself.
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B
We're talking about Jared Leto here.
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C
Yeah, yeah, the Jared Leto of it all. Like the Rudy thing, that's never been my thing. So I'm going to rely on all the other parts of this movie to pull me through. And thank God Jodie Turner Smith was the icy program reconciling with their possible desire for further sentience. And the trauma of it all looked super cool on and off grid. So I got what I needed out of a Tron and four. I think maybe, maybe the first time ever. I will sincerely say don't skip the 3D if you have the chance. See this movie in a theater. And the 3D, I thought it worked. I thought it was a value add. And again, I think it's the first time I've ever said it in my life. So technical wizardry crushed it for Tron. Aries.
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B
Got it. Okay, Candice, what's your relationship with this film?
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D
I love Tron Legacy, the 2010 sequel, very, very much. It's a sick movie. Daft Punk electric. It's kind of like Divergent and Hunger Games, but a little bit more for the techie side. My whole thing is like if you're the type of person who Google maps their entire route to dinner just to know where to park, you like Tron because there's kind of this. It looks like a map, right? The grid looks like a map. You know, with this movie, I was really excited to watch it and I like it for what it is. I have a feeling. Not sure everyone will because, look, I can pretty much like pinpoint the moments that either won't make sense or the lore will kind of make people zone out. But this movie feels very big. Probably the biggest of the three because it's a lot more like marvelly and action Y than like small nerdy sci fi tech thriller. For example, I just kind of feel like they brag about how much like urban infrastructure they are destroying in this movie, but that's that.
- [04:29]
B
Yeah, that's certainly true.
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D
But I actually think that this movie very much falls in line with two other releases, which is Megan 2.0 and Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning. There's something about the way that all three of these movies are trying to say something about like, AI entities interacting with our world that I find a little troubling. But I think still, back to the franchise, like Tron Aries does Reinvigorate what I love about the franchise. I think for right now my ranking still is though, like Legacy. This one. And I gotta be honest, I hate Tron from 1982. I know.
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C
Oh man, I love original Tron. I know I'm still the original Legacy. Love Legacy. And then this one is like a not begrudging third.
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D
Right?
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C
I'm not mad at it. Third.
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B
All right. This look you see on my face, folks, is bemusement. Because I gotta say, I got no light cycle in this race. As a nerd, it feels very weird to me to have a big sci fi franchise. Cause I have real questions about how popular this franchise is. We'll talk about that. But it's weird for me to have this sci fi franchise out there and have it miss me as completely as this one has over the years. Especially when you consider that when that first film came out, I was a literally a 14 year old boy. I was a 14 year old indoor kid. And I felt targeted by it. But it missed me completely. I didn't see it in theaters for reasons I can't remember. Tried to watch it on VHS many, many times. Fell asleep every time. Couldn't tell you why. And let me tell you, I hate this feeling. I don't like feeling as emotionally disconnected from anything that has this many lasers and FL flight mechs and pew pew pews in it. Cause I don't want to feel like my parents. But here we are. I saw Legacy. That thing sluiced off my brain the moment it ended. And as we tried to explain to listeners in the intro, you don't need to have really. It's set in the same universe. It is a new story with new characters. Some of them are literally related, like genetically related to previous characters in previous films. But it's off doing more or less its own thing Now. I will say that the thing it's doing has been done better elsewhere. What it's doing is grappling with what it means to be human in what I consider a very by the numbers kind of way. But it's doing it while pelting you, hurling Easter eggs at you, whipping them at you like it is a disgruntled Peter Cottontail hopping down that bunny trail.
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C
Like they are an identity disk and you are doing battle.
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B
For example, at one point in this film, an OG from the first film, Lightcycle, makes its appearance.
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A
Yes.
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B
And when that happened in the theater that I was in, it got one sad, lonely woo. And when I heard that, I was like, well, good for you. If you See yourself in the cohort of people who would woo at the sight of a light cycle run. Do not walk to this film. This film was made for you. But I heard that woo. And I was like, I'm happy for you. Also, who are you? Can I study you? Because it is certainly my impression. Here's where we get to it. That this franchise has not left a huge cultural footprint. But I'm old and tired. May. Maybe there's things I don't know about. Maybe there's like, there's a book talk. Maybe there's a Tron talk. Maybe there's folks trading spicy S and M Tron fanfic and calling it Master Control. And if there's shazen, there should be spin classes with light cycles. They should do that.
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C
That's true.
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B
Both of you, tell me, how is this a thing? People don't talk about this franchise when there's not a movie in theaters. And I would argue not even much when there is no.
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C
Glenn, I'm shocked. When we got the Tron Ares teaser, I was like, they really did it. Like, because I love the original. Like, I don't know many people who are big enthusiasts for legacy that like the original. And I really liked Tron Legacy. And I remember I worked at Wired at the time and we did a. Obviously if there's gonna movie that Wired is gonna do a movie cover on should be Tron. And it was this big package that we did Legacy light cycle on the COVID But it has been one of those beloved. In the aftermath, the Internet has found its home with Tron Legacy. When the trailer got here, there were elements of it where it was like, whose mad lib was this for Tron? And then was like, Nine Inch Nail score. I was like, all right, clock it in. Like, give me the grid, give me the score, give me the suits. But it was. As somebody who loves this stuff, I don't. I don't know where they decided this was a great value proposition. I'm so glad they did. I don't think they're right.
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D
Yeah.
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C
But I'm glad I got a look at another Tron.
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B
Okay.
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D
I kind of want to talk about, like, why Tron as a franchise just has never hit at the right time, but also why I love it. So, like, the first thing is, One of TRON 1982's biggest advocates is this random ass guy named Roger Ebert. Heard of him? Heard of him in 1982, Ebert was four out of four stars on the first Tron movie. And his whole thing is he was just like, it is beyond us the way that Charli XCX has always been beyond society. And at some point, at some point, Brat society caught up with Charlie. And at some point Tron 1982 became like this cult classic. And then Tron Legacy 2010 comes out. I really liked it just because I think it was very different in terms of the type of dystopian culture that I was being flooded with at the time. I think what I liked about that movie too, is just that it wasn't always about the digital technology and the infrastructure. Because that movie is about like a son looking for his father in the grid.
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C
Looking for biodigital Jazz, man.
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D
Sure. However, guess who also didn't love that movie as much. Ebert. He literally was like, that's a three out of four. This isn't killing. But I think the thing is I feel a lot of love and affection for this franchise because I have this feeling that Tron exists in this almost to the left of the Star Wars, Star Trek, even. Sometimes it gives me Jumanji vibes of the whole point. It's kind of supposed to be for the ones who are left off the grid to me. To me. And I count myself as one of those people. However, the question now is like, we're in 2025. This is one of those films that they don't make a lot of, which in a weird way I like, but I think business wise to them. It does not help because they're like, look, if we could turn Tron every two years, we're going to turn Tron. The question is, who wants to that one random guy.
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C
I think that's a great point of what you're saying is like, that it doesn't come around every two years is like, I think a nice thing about it, but it is also that it doesn't come around every two years. It competes with all these other things that seem to. And that hobbles its chances when it's like, these movies are big and flashy and expensive. And this is like the third. The third time that this massive conglomerate has kind of gone back to the well. And it's like. Feels like a passion project to me, I guess. And I agree with you with Legacy. The thing that I couldn't shake when I was watching, when I was trying to figure out the first time I watched it through, if I liked it was like, it's so sincere, I can't not. And I think that was the thing I missed in Aries is I enjoyed myself as a pretty Time at the movies, and it was a cool experience, but, like, that real sincerity. It was getting at that with what gets to go on with Greta Lee's character. But, like, I actually wanted more of the Flynn journey from Greta Leigh's character, and I don't think it would have been retreading the same ground. I think it would have been getting at the emotional strength of how this franchise has actually really connected with people.
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B
Yeah, okay. Well, it's gesturing towards some kind of emotional center with the relationship between the Greta Lee character and her dead sister, which is not a spoiler. It's right there in the beginning. But we've already touched on this. But Disney, here's how you do not entice me into a franchise I haven't cared about for decades by making the face of a Jared Leto. This guy brings absolutely no arc to this character. Now, the character on paper is a cipher whose arc is the whole movie. He achieves sentience, then he achieves empathy, then he achieves altruism. That's big. But nothing about this performance, nothing in his actions affect changes from the first moment we see him to the end. This character starts the film giving big, dirtbag energy. He ends the film giving big, dirtbag energy. He is a heat sink of charisma. He gives nothing. He takes a lot. Talk about the Leto of it all, please.
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C
My favorite category of performance in anything is person playing robot. Playing person, like, it is so difficult. There's so much subtlety that has to go into that without becoming like a parody of just being a droid who is, like, clunking their way around and misunderstanding the human condition. What you see in the little business of what Jodie is doing in her performance, it seems like that sort of like, one note marching robot until. Because she also has an arc, Athena, her character also has an arc. When you see her start to change, even as a supporting character, you see the effect of the. What those changes have on her as opposed to playing at one note the entire time. And the direct contrast of those two security programs, he's master control and she's a subset program working alongside each other. I was like, they're doing the exact same thing. And I'm getting so much less time with her, and she's giving me so much more. So there is an example of how you can actually pull off a lot with a little bit in that framework of performance. And it was such, like, a negative foil for him that I was seeing it so well done from her again in a fraction of the screen time. That I was like, well, would have been cool if she was master control, I guess.
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B
No, you make this film about her. You fix this film, I think from a storyline that would have been cool and from a performance level.
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D
One thing I do really love about the Tron franchise is that it doesn't overcomplicate who is the hero, and it does not really overcomplicate the narrative of the hero's journey. It's very simple, right? The first movie is Jeff Bridges. The second one is his son. My thing with this movie is I could not figure out for, like, two acts who was the real hero. And the thing about the Tron franchise is the hero is the person who is usually thrust into the grid by accident. Greta Lee, like, gets thrown into the grid. She doesn't stay there for long. But it is Ares who ends up, like, going into the grid and, like, having conversations with, like, interesting people, whatever. And my. My whole thing is, if Ares then becomes, you know, the hero of the film, are we rooting for him? Therefore, are we rooting for AI? And that I did not like because.
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C
Interesting.
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D
My biggest issue with this movie, Megan 2.0 and Mission Impossible Final Reckoning, is that we now have these three huge studio movies that are trying to have nuanced conversations about AI, but they are not taking Firmanoff's sides or they're being generous. And I think especially in a film where Greta Lee is not just like a regular citizen, She's a CEO, is, like, actually powerful and rich. He's flying in on a private jet. Like, the sympathy that they have for the people who control AIs like, destiny in these films is a little too wishy washy waffling for me. These films want to touch AI, but they don't want to have, like, a very firm stance on it. And just like, as, like, a viewer, I'm just kind of like, then, like, what do you want me to do about it? Because I will say, and this is like my. This is my last sentence of it. In the movie, there is a part where Ares is given the option, let's say, to possibly choose staying himself as AI or becoming human. He's a little bit intrigued by the concept of, like, human emotions and, like, feeling rain. I won't spoil what he does. I am just saying, though, there are so many movies about AI entities trying to become more human, I'm not seeing a lot of movies about humans trying to be AI. Therefore, I say, is it possible we don't need the AI if they're all trying to be human. We already have humans. Yeah.
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B
You both talked about the look of this film, and I think we have to talk about the look and the sound of this film. So this film looks slick. Everything is red and black. It's giving you serious, sinister, ladybug energy. Red, the blood of angry men. Black, the dark of ages past. But the slickness is so reflective that I associate it unfairly, of course, with what I have recently started to think of as AI Slop, which isn't part of the folks who work very hard on this film. But that's just a taste thing for me. It's got this muscle car aesthetic that just misses me. But let's talk about the score by Nine Inch Nails. Now, every Tron film has had a high profile composer. First one was Wendy Carlos. Second was Daft Punk. This one is Nine Inch Nails. The omnipresence of this score was giving me 80 films that were just awash with music, like Blade Runner, Legend. It was giving me Evangelis. It was giving me Tangerine Dream. What'd you guys make of the score?
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D
I like it. Right. Like, I actually really love the Tron franchise's interaction with music because them getting Daft Punk to do Legacy was huge to me. I was like, disney, that's a huge get. Because not only are you getting someone cool in the EDM space, also French to, like, score your movie, but it also kind of opened the door of, like, who can score movies.
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C
Yeah, there was a tide shift with that.
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D
Totally. And so for them to bring in Nine Inch Nails, I think there's a lot going on here. I like it. First of all, right. Like, Trent Reznor, Atticus Ross, AKA the boys behind Challengers, AKA There was one track here that I was like, that totally is a Challenger. B side. But I won't tell Luca. One of the first movies they ever scored was the Social Network. And I do find this interesting tie between Social Network and Tron because it's kind of about the culture of the Internet, not so much the Internet itself. And I like that. And so, to me, I was like, this score is very propulsive. It's what I expected. It's sonically propulsive. It's trying to kind of add this, like, techie sonic performance to the actual performance in the movie.
- [17:57]
C
I think it was kind of putting a nice magic wand over some parts where the magic may not have been giving as much as it needed to on its own. So I kind of think it was this nice trick that the movie could play to compensate for things that it didn't quite have everything of I have in my notes.
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B
Do not call this just a music video. Do not say it's just a video game cutscene, because I will not be baited into doing that. Because for decades now people who are older and more out of touch than me have been saying that about everything I love. And I will not be that guy. I refuse to be that guy. I can hang with the youth of today. That said, those light cycle chases, they're kind of a music video. They were kind of a video game. Well, we came at this from very different angles, and I don't think we all agree that you should go see it. But now is the time for you to tell us what you think about Tron Aries. I say that every week, but this time I really mean it because I have no idea. Is Tron a thing? Tell me. Find us on the grid at Facebook and letterboxd up next. What is making us happy this week?
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E
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- [19:25]
A
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- [19:56]
E
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- [20:24]
A
Support for this podcast and the following message come from 20th Century Studios presenting Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere From Scott Cooper, director of Academy Award winning film Crazy Heart brings you the story of the most pivotal chapter in the life of an icon. Starring Golden Globe winner Jeremy Allen White and Academy Award nominee Jeremy Strong Experience. The movie that critics are raving is an intelligent journey into the Soul of an artist, Springsteen. Deliver Me from Nowhere. Only in theaters October 24th. Tickets on sale now.
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B
Now it is time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What is making us happy this week? Candice Lim, kick us off. What's. What's making you happy this week?
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D
What's making me happy this week is a movie you're totally gonna love, Glenn. It's called the Wrong Paris. Okay, so this is a Netflix movie. Stay with Me came out last month. It stars Miranda Cosgrove. That's my girl. She's from icarly. And she plays this farm girl who basically wants to go to Paris to study art, but she doesn't have the cash to get there, so she signs up for this, like, bachelor type dating show. They claim that their season's gonna be filmed in Paris. The thing is, they don't say which Paris. So they're not in Paris, France. They're shooting in Paris, Texas, ak AKA near her hometown. However, she's trying to get off the show. She's scheming. She's trying to be, like, a dud. And then she finds out who the suitor is, and he's kind of into her. She's kind of into him. I'm kind of into the movie because it reminds me of Unreal. Do you remember that show where it was kind of this, like, peak behind the scenes, kind of this darker version of what it's like to really make a show like the Bachelor. And I actually think this kind of hits on very similar tones and, like, moments. And I have to say, I think this is probably the best Netflix rom com I've watched this year. Cause it's, like, cute and it doesn't drag. So I think this is very perfect. Friday, Saturday night. Watch at home. Pad tie on lock.
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B
Here we go.
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D
There you go. That's the wrong Paris. You can find it on Netflix.
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B
All right, thank you. That is a recommendation. I don't take rom com recommendations often unless it's from someone I respect who gets it. So I'm gonna check it out. All right, thank you very much, Candace Lim. Jordan Crucciola. What is making you happy this week, pal?
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C
The thing that's making me happy this week is Taylor Swift's new album, the Life of a Showgirl.
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B
Heard of it?
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C
Despite the fact that nothing makes Swifties more upset than a new Taylor album, as you might think from watching the Internet. React to it, but don't believe what you heard.
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B
Okay?
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C
This is another really good Taylor album. It's not my top Taylor album. It's another really good Taylor album. Opalite. One of the best songs she's ever done. The actual last track, Life of Showgirl. Really excellent stuff. Canceled. It's going a little far for me. I could leave that track off. Would makes me actually blush too much to almost finish the song because I feel really uncomfortable hearing. But other than that, the rest are hits. And this is Taylor in her everlasting incisive singer songwriter condition. Guess what? She's good at her job. She's done it again. And the life of a showgirl, particularly in the car, is making me very happy this week.
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B
All right, good to hear. Here's hoping that we can get the PCH bump for that plucky little upstart. Taylor Swift.
- [23:27]
C
Needs all the help it can get out here.
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B
Needs all the help she can get. What's making me happy this week is a film called Play Dirty. It is a nasty little heist film that recently came out on Prime. Here's where I say that Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content. But I would be recommending this film even if they didn't because it's directed and co written by Shane Black, who did Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang and the Nice Guys. I love that it's based on the Parker novels by Donald E. Westlake. I love that it stars Mark Wahlberg. Did I mention I love the Parker novels by Donald E. Westlake? Look, this isn't revelatory, but it's very solid. It's also very violent and it's a little funny. Sometimes the stunts look a little cgi. Weightless. Yes, but you got Tony Shalhoub, you got Lakeith Stanfield, you got Keegan, Michael Key. Wahlberg isn't giving you a lot, but the character is written to be kind of a cipher, so that kind of works too. There are some Mr. X, some very heisty Mr. X that got me. Look, if you like heist movies, you got a Saturday afternoon to kill. You can start it with the wrong Paris on a Friday night, and then on Saturday afternoon you could do a lot worse. That is Play Dirty on Prime and that is what's making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommend recommended plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter@npr.org popculturenewsletter that brings us to the end of our show. Candice Lim, Jordan Kuroshila, thank you so much for being here.
- [24:45]
C
Thank you for having us.
- [24:47]
D
Thank you.
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B
This episode was produced by Mike Katsif and Janae Morris and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy and hello, Kim in provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Glenn Weldon and we'll see you all next week.
- [25:04]
E
This message comes From NPR Sponsor 1Password Protect your digital life with 1Password if you're tired of family members constantly texting you for the passwords to streaming services, 1Password lets you securely share or remove access to logins access from any device anytime. 1Password lets you securely switch between iPhone, Android, Mac and PC with convenient features like autofill. For quick sign in right now, get a free two week trial for you and your family at 1Password.com NPR this message comes from Mint Mobile. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no. No contracts, no monthly bills, no hidden fees. Plans start at $15 a month. Make the switch@mintmobile.com Switch that's mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5GB plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first 3 months. Plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.