Pop Culture Happy Hour: Deep Dive into "Pee-Wee as Himself"
Published on June 18, 2025
In the latest episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Glenn Weldon and Linda Holmes embark on an in-depth exploration of the documentary "Pee-Wee as Himself." This thought-provoking film, directed by queer documentarian Matt Wolf, offers a nuanced portrait of Paul Reubens—the creative force behind the iconic character Pee-wee Herman. The episode meticulously dissects the documentary's content, the intricate relationship between filmmaker and subject, and the broader cultural implications surrounding Pee-wee Herman's legacy.
1. Unveiling "Pee-Wee as Himself"
Glenn Weldon opens the discussion by highlighting the documentary's unique approach:
“[03:01] Glenn Weldon: Peewee as himself is a remarkable project. Queer documentarian Matt Wolf spent 40 hours interviewing Paul Rubens, who did not disclose to Wolf that he had been diagnosed with cancer. He playfully spars with Wolf over control of the documentary.”
This sets the stage for understanding the documentary not as a conventional Hollywood biography but as a layered narrative exploring identity, legacy, and personal struggles.
2. The Dynamic Between Matt Wolf and Paul Reubens
The interplay between Wolf and Reubens is central to the documentary's depth. Early tensions hint at a deeper narrative:
“[03:18] Paul Rubens: What do I have to do to prove to you I don't trust you? You're right. There's a tiny bit. A tiny bit. I don't want this to go to your head and I don't want you to feel in any way, shape or form that I trust you..."
“[03:48] Paul Rubens: More than anything, the reason I wanted to make a documentary was to let people see who I really am and how painful and difficult it was to be labeled something that I wasn't.”
These exchanges emphasize Reubens' struggle to balance control over his narrative with the filmmaker's vision, adding layers of complexity to the portrayal.
3. Exploring Reubens' Journey and Legal Troubles
The documentary meticulously charts Reubens' ascent in the entertainment world alongside his legal battles:
“[04:02] Glenn Weldon: He charts his success on the big and small screens. His run-ins with the law in 1991 and 2002. Reubens is candid about his sexuality and about his very deliberate decision to go back into the closet as the Pee Wee Persona began to take off.”
The 1991 arrest for indecent exposure and the 2002 charges related to possession of child pornography are pivotal moments that Reubens addresses with candor, shedding light on the personal and professional toll these events took on him.
4. Balancing Documentarian and Subject Narratives
Linda Holmes offers a critical analysis of how Matt Wolf navigates the delicate balance between focusing on Reubens and the filmmaking process:
“[04:21] Linda Holmes: I really liked the approach that Woolf took in dealing with him... the way that Woolf balances how much to put the process of making the documentary into the documentary, I think is always a tricky thing to handle, and I think he handles it really well.”
The inclusion of behind-the-scenes tensions enriches the documentary without overshadowing Reubens' personal story, maintaining a focus on the subject rather than the filmmaker.
5. The Complexity of Pee-wee Herman's Persona
A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Reubens' insistence that Pee-wee Herman be perceived as a real individual, blurring the lines between performance and reality:
“[11:09] Linda Holmes: When Pee Wee's Big Adventure came out, he was credited, you know, as Pee Wee playing himself. But as a writer, he was credited as Paul Reubens. And he has this kind of frustration. Well, I didn't really get credit because people didn't know that was me.”
Glenn Weldon adds depth to this by contextualizing Pee-wee Herman within queer culture and performance art:
“[11:50] Linda Holmes: And I had the same reaction of, like, I feel like I was there.
“[12:45] Linda Holmes: I think it's fun to be reminded of that, too. I found it fascinating to see how the tension between subject and filmmaker... works into the film.”
This exploration raises questions about authenticity, persona, and the audience's perception, especially within the framework of queer identity.
6. Reflections on Legacy and Personal Growth
The hosts delve into Reubens' reflections on his legacy and the intentional shaping of his public image:
“[09:02] Linda Holmes: Although, as you say, his perspective on that would have been valuable... But he sort of says, I don't want people to feel like I'm a victim.”
Glenn Weldon discusses Reubens' vision for his character and its place in pop culture:
“[11:53] Glenn Weldon: But because it was also a distancing technique. Right. Because there are gonna be some contemporary queer folk who are gonna tut, tut over his decision to go not just in the closet, but back in the closet... But the thing I tried to make a point of in the obituary that I wrote about in print is that while Paul Reubens may have been in the closet, Pee Wee was queer.”
This nuanced discussion highlights the complexities of maintaining a public persona while navigating personal identity and societal expectations.
7. Comparative Insights and Final Thoughts
Linda Holmes draws parallels with other documentaries to underscore the effectiveness of "Pee-Wee as Himself":
“[15:06] Linda Holmes: The documentary that this reminded me of the Most is a 2011 film called Paul Williams Still Alive... But here you get it kind of left in tension despite that final message. It's left in a state of tension between them.”
Glenn Weldon summarizes the documentary's impact:
“[17:55] Glenn Weldon: These are among the many reasons why this particular documentary, Pee Wee as Himself is as enlightening as it ends up being.”
8. Conclusion and Recommendations
Wrapping up the episode, Weldon encourages listeners to engage with the documentary and share their thoughts:
“We want to know what you think about Pee Wee as himself. Find us on Facebook@facebook.com PCHH and on letters NPRpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description and that brings us to the end of our show.”
"Pee-Wee as Himself" is praised for its rich archival footage, candid interviews, and the intricate portrayal of Paul Reubens' life and legacy. By intertwining Reubens' personal narrative with the challenges of documentary filmmaking, the film offers viewers a comprehensive and intimate look at a beloved pop culture figure.
Streaming Information:
Pee-Wee as Himself is available for streaming on Max.
Hosts & Production:
- Glenn Weldon and Linda Holmes
- Produced by Hafsa Fathoma and Mike Katsif
- Edited by Jessica Reedy
- Theme Music by Hello, Come In
Connect with Pop Culture Happy Hour:
- Facebook: facebook.com/PCHH
- Email: letters NPRpopculture