Y2K Pop Culture

Summary

Pop Culture Happy Hour: Y2K Pop Culture

Release Date: August 7, 2025

In this vibrant episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, hosts Christina Tucker, Aisha Harris, and their panel of guests—culture writer Margaret H. Wilson and DJ Louis XIV—dive deep into the quintessential elements of Y2K pop culture. The conversation spans iconic movies, music videos, and the broader cultural zeitgeist that defined the turn of the millennium.

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Defining Y2K Pop Culture

Christina Tucker sets the stage by framing the Y2K era as the period between the international launch of the Tamagotchi in May 1997 and the shutdown of Napster in 2001. This era, characterized by the dominance of teenage culture, the emergence of viral internet memes, and a collective nostalgia for the late '90s, serves as the backdrop for the panel's exploration.

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Spice World: The Quintessential Y2K Movie

DJ Louis XIV kicks off the discussion by nominating the "Spice World" movie as the most definitive piece of Y2K pop culture (03:56). He emphasizes the film's embodiment of Y2K aesthetics through its fashion, portrayal of girl power, and the relentless paparazzi culture that prefigured today's celebrity obsession.

"The fashions are extremely of the Y2K era in a way that I find so comforting and takes me simply right back to being an 11-year-old." (03:56)

Margaret H. Wilson echoes Louis's sentiments, highlighting the movie's impact on her personal memories and its reflection of the era's psychological complexities, especially concerning identity and representation.

"The Spice Girls were kind of like this. Be yourself. Like, be different. Be outside the norm. That was what girl power was, in a way." (10:12)

The panel delves into how "Spice World" not only captured the era's vibrant energy but also served as a precursor to the teen pop explosion that followed, underscoring its lasting influence on pop culture.

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Get Over It: Capturing Teen Angst and Nostalgia

Transitioning from music to film, DJ Louis XIV introduces his pick: "Get Over It"—a teen movie that epitomizes Y2K's cinematic landscape (11:17). He articulates how the film encapsulates the era's unique blend of teen drama and postmodern influences.

"This is why I chose 'Get Over It,' because I'm not over what this time did to me, and I want other people to understand it better." (15:14)

Christina Tucker appreciates the pick, noting how "Get Over It" represents a frozen moment in time that allows contemporary audiences to re-contextualize and rediscover Y2K aesthetics.

"'Get Over It' is part of the proud Y2K tradition of retelling Shakespeare plays as teen movies." (12:44)

The discussion highlights the film's role in mirroring the complexities of teenage life during the Y2K era, blending classic narratives with the era's unique cultural elements.

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Britney Spears' "Oops! I Did It Again": A Y2K Icon

Margaret H. Wilson shifts the conversation to the music video "Oops! I Did It Again" by Britney Spears, presenting it as another emblematic piece of Y2K culture (16:40). She delves into how the video encapsulates the era's techno-optimism, aesthetic choices, and the commodification of pop stardom.

"Britney is in some sort of like space age something Mars lander. And she was hot too." (18:24)

Margaret analyzes the video's blend of futuristic elements with glossy pop sensibilities, emphasizing how it reflects the era's fascination with technology and the future.

"The word 2000 in and of itself was like this kind of mind-blowing idea. And I think this video really captures that sort of like, oh my God, the forward march of technology." (18:12)

The panel discusses the lasting impact of Spears' image and music on subsequent pop culture, noting the video’s foresight in anticipating today's digital and internet-driven social interactions.

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Janet Jackson's "Empty": Predicting the Digital Age

Christina Tucker introduces her pick: "Empty" from Janet Jackson's groundbreaking album The Velvet Rope (23:20). She underscores the song's prophetic exploration of online relationships and the emotional void that can accompany digital connections.

"The way she sings, 'we've never met,' causes you to think, like, is this a new way to love?" (25:42)

Christina points out how the song mirrors contemporary issues surrounding online dating, internet personas, and the dichotomy between virtual and real-life interactions, making it remarkably relevant today.

"This song predicts online dating, but also just how now this is how so many people interact." (25:42)

Margaret H. Wilson praises Janet Jackson's nuanced portrayal of techno-optimism and the emotional complexities of digital connections, noting the song's enduring influence on modern R&B and pop music.

"This song is unique in that way because Janet was at this moment of, like, creative zenith. This album is perhaps, like, maybe my all time favorite album." (27:27)

The discussion highlights "Empty" as a forward-thinking piece that not only defines Y2K's musical landscape but also resonates deeply with today's digital communication challenges.

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Reflections on Y2K and Its Legacy

As the panel wraps up, they reflect on how Y2K culture has resurfaced in contemporary fashion and media, often sanitized and reimagined for new generations. DJ Louis XIV reminisces about the cyclical nature of fashion trends, noting the resurgence of Y2K styles among today's youth.

"I was like, no, they come back from somewhere. When I named my first book after a Spice Girl song, it was very dear to me." (09:32)

Margaret H. Wilson ties these reflections to broader cultural shifts, such as the impact of significant events like 9/11 on the collective consciousness and the transition from a unified pop culture to a more fragmented media landscape.

"The crusade that you're on. I feel like Y2K was better here." (16:00)

Christina Tucker concludes by acknowledging the panel's diverse picks, each representing different facets of Y2K pop culture—from movies and music videos to pioneering songs that foresaw the digital age.

"This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Janae Morris and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy." (30:44)

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Conclusion

This episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour masterfully dissects the elements that made Y2K a pivotal moment in pop culture history. Through engaging dialogue and insightful analysis, the panel members illuminate how movies like "Spice World" and "Get Over It," alongside iconic music videos and forward-thinking songs like Britney Spears' "Oops! I Did It Again" and Janet Jackson's "Empty," collectively define the Y2K era. Their reflections not only celebrate the vibrant energy of the time but also draw connections to contemporary cultural phenomena, highlighting the enduring legacy of Y2K pop culture.

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Notable Quotes:

• "The fashion are extremely of the Y2K era in a way that I find so comforting and takes me simply right back to being an 11-year-old." — DJ Louis XIV (03:56)

• "Britney is in some sort of like space age something Mars lander. And she was hot too." — Margaret H. Wilson (18:24)

• "The way she sings, 'we've never met,' causes you to think, like, is this a new way to love?" — Christina Tucker (25:42)

• "This song predicts online dating, but also just how now this is how so many people interact." — Christina Tucker (25:42)

• "The Spice Girls taught us to love Europop again." — DJ Louis XIV (07:01)

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For more discussions on pop culture and nostalgia, tune in to Pop Culture Happy Hour next time on NPR.

Transcript

[Aisha Harris]

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[Christina Tucker]

True story. A couple of years ago, American Girl introduced a pair of new historical characters from, wait for it, 1990. The doll's accessories were as Y2K as they could possibly get. A Tamagotchi, a purple inflatable chair, a portable CD player. Basically my 11 year old wife. I felt so old when I saw that. Now we're officially a quarter century into the 2000s and it's our turn to be a little bit nostalgic. Here on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're going to try to pinpoint the essence of that period when teens ruled the culture. Viral Internet memes first became a thing and everyone was freaking out about stocking up on Duct T. I'm Aisha Harris and Today we're debating what's the most definitive piece of Y2K pop culture.

[Aisha Harris]

This message comes from Amazon. Have you ever been so sick that even the thought of standing up to go to the doctor made you even more sick? Amazon One Medical has 24. 7 virtual care so you can get help while horizontal. And with Amazon Pharmacy you can get medicine delivered fast right to your door. You just have to make it to your door thanks to Amazon Healthcare just got less painful. This message comes from Schwab At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This message comes from Amazon Pharmacy. When you're on hold with the pharmacy and you hear your call is very important, after the 10th loop, you start to doubt that Amazon Pharmacy delivers meds to you fast. Without the hold music, Amazon Healthcare just got less painful.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone. The perfect app to achieve your language learning goals. No matter how busy your schedule gets, it's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at rosettastone.com NPR joining me.

[Christina Tucker]

Today is Christina Tucker. She's the co host of the podcast Wait, Is this a Date? Hello, Christina.

[Louis XIV]

Hello.

[Christina Tucker]

Hello.

[Louis XIV]

Thrilled to be here.

[Christina Tucker]

Thrilled to have you here.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Hi.

[Christina Tucker]

Also with us is culture writer Margaret H. Wilson. Hello, Margaret.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Hi, Aisha. Delighted to be here.

[Christina Tucker]

It's so lovely to have you. And making their pop culture happy hour debut. I am so excited. Is the host of the podcast pop pantheon, DJ Louis the 14th. Welcome to the show, Louis.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Aisha, this is a true honor. Thank you so much for having me.

[Christina Tucker]

It's so great to have you here. So we're here to argue for the piece of culture that we think best captures the spirit of Y2K. And for our purposes, we're going to be defining the Y2K era as being bookended by two very arbitrary but monumental cultural moments. The international launch of the Tamagotchi in May of 1997 and the shutdown of Napster in 2001. So whatever we chose had to fall within that time period. Christina, I'm going to start with you. Tell us, what is your pick, folks?

[Louis XIV]

It's Spice World. It's the movie Spice World. I considered doing the album Spice World, but when I thought about the film Spice World, there were some obvious things that made a very Y2K culture to me. One, the fashions. The fashions are extremely of the Y2K era in a way that I find so comforting and takes me simply right back to being an 11 year old. Once again, the notion of girl power, huge for Y2K. I don't know what we had happening in the culture. Something that I'd love to bring back maybe. But for me, the most definitive thing that makes this Y2K culture is the way the paparazzi are obsessed with stalking those girls. And to me, that spooky man is like one of the horsemen of like the apocalypse. And then like right on his heels is, you know, we've got Perez Hilton coming down the line. You know, Deuxmoi is coming later. I think the way they talk about privacy and what we demand from celebrities as people, it was just like a shockingly prescient way of thinking about what pop culture would become. And for me, that makes it very definitive of Y2K culture because Y2K in paparazzi culture, baby, tight as heck.

[Christina Tucker]

I mean, that was also 97 was the same year as the death of Princess Diana. Right. And that had its own paparazzi storyline. Yeah. Christina, look, I love this. I named my first book after a Spice Girl song like, this is very dear to me. I'm curious, Louis and Margaret, how do we feel about this? Does this feel like an apt pick? Does it feel Y2K enough?

[DJ Louis XIV]

It's such a strong pick.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

This is such a good pick. Like, I'm actually sort of kicking myself that I didn't think of it, to be honest with you. Like, I have so many core memories tied to this. Like, definitely as a queer person, as a queer man, Spice World. And my pick also are points of, like, deep conflict manifesting themselves. Because I wanted to love the Spice Girls openly, but I couldn't because of maybe what that meant. And I remember trying to find, like, roundabout ways to like, see this movie without, like, letting too much on. So a lot of psychological fraughtness. I don't know if it's YT to be like a certain version of closetedness.

[Louis XIV]

A certain version of closetedness.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

And also I would say this sort of like, glossy, almost naive, bright eyed optimism of the teen pop movement and like, how teens were represented. I mean, the Spice Girls themselves were not teens, but they were geared towards that culture. And in some ways, I think, like, calcified or were the precursors to like, the teen pop explosion that would happen a couple of years later, 100%. And that particular sort of teenager milieu, I feel like, is so Y2K to me in the most quintessential way.

[DJ Louis XIV]

I feel like the Spice Girls taught us to love Europop again. Like, as a country, we'd lost our way as a country. We, like, only wanted something that had, like, aesthetic grit to it, that, like, thought how much we were gonna enjoy listening to it. And the Spice Girls swooped in and they were like, what if it was just fun to listen to and you could dance to it all the time, right? And for a heady moment, we were like, yes.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Well, it's like the time that you all have presented of like 97 and 2001 is really interesting in sort of like the pop musical trajectory, because you're sort of like dealing with the exact moment where there's sort of this, like, retrenchment towards pure pop, sort of frivolous pop after sort of this dominant period for gangster rap, for grunge, for like these more kind of Lilith Fair. For Lilith Fair, for these more sort of like cred driven, raucous ideals of centralized pop music and back towards something that sort of celebrated artifice, celebrated lightness, celebrated again, like, I think a certain European sensibility that tracks through also the American teen pop of that moment via Max Martin and all these Swedish men. So, yeah, I think that's a really quintessentially Y2K thing too, as well. This sort of, like, version of pop.

[Christina Tucker]

Music, especially the Spice World album, was such a disco inflected piece of work. Like, it was like a look back to 20 years prior. So it was like that weird moment. And then, of course, like, in that same period, you have VH1 launching its. I love the 70s and I love the. So it's both of its time, but also it's like a complete rewind and a remix, Right.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

It's like a postmodernism version of pop music in a way. And that's what you could also say about a lot of this teen pop music that was essentially being like, I'm gonna take this from disco, I'm gonna take this from rock, I'm gonna take this from reggae, whatever it is, and sort of, like, take the stickiest parts of everything and, like, just blast them out to a thousand, right?

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Louis XIV]

I also think it's crucial to remember that Spice world includes Al. That's also very Y2K culture, deeply Y2K to be like, what's happening in space and, like, what's going on up there?

[Margaret H. Wilson]

And the future, Like, a very specific sort of glossy version of, like, what the future could look like, maybe.

[DJ Louis XIV]

I feel like in the last seven or eight years, that's when, like, Y2K fashion has started to become cool again among actual young people. And I remember just how chilling it was the first time that I saw Y2K as a descriptor on a secondhand so site. And the way it was, like, they were presenting the clothing that I had been traumatized by as a teenager, and they were presenting it like no person who had been personally victimized by it was ever going to encounter it. It was like an archeological find. It's like from nowhere. We bring back butterfly clips. And I was like, no, they come back from somewhere.

[Christina Tucker]

Well, it was my understanding that when I was 11 years old and wearing bell bottoms, that everyone who lived through that already was like, why are you doing this again?

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Right.

[DJ Louis XIV]

I finally understood how everyone who was young in the 70s felt about my Delia's catalogs. Right?

[Christina Tucker]

Yep.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

What was also interesting about the Spice Girls versus some other, like, members of this boom, right, Was that they presented a version of, quote, unquote, diversity that, like, I feel like, wasn't that common. Like, I mean, you had a person of color in the group, their body types. I mean, like, now we look back at it, and we're like, those are five skinny women. Like, you know, given us the time, you know, given how messed up our body standards were, was so sporty. Yeah, she was sporty.

[DJ Louis XIV]

She was square. Right, right.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

And also, when you contrast them with the Britneys and Christinas, you know, who had this very particular version of sort of like, ultra thinness and all that kind of stuff, like, the Spice Girls were kind of like this. Be yourself. Like, be different. Be outside the norm. That was what girl power was, in a way. Yeah.

[Louis XIV]

It was like, here's five versions that you can be. Pick one.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Right.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Exactly. Exactly. Which was more than a lot of our pop culture at that time was selling us.

[Louis XIV]

Yes.

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah, this is true. This is true.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Well, it's sort of taking the actual CH and complexity of the early 90s and, like, fully commercializing it. Right. And defanging it and being like, yeah, be yourself in a sexy way.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yeah, be yourself in a sexy way.

[Louis XIV]

Be you as long as it's hot.

[Christina Tucker]

Yes, yes. Right. I mean, Christina, that is a very worthy pick for most definitive. That is Spice World, the movie, of course, which came out in 1997. And now we're going to move to Margaret's pick, and we've got another movie here. And there's so many movies you could have chosen from this era. I am so excited to hear.

[DJ Louis XIV]

You're so excited to hear why I chose this one.

[Christina Tucker]

Seriously? Yes. Yes, I am.

[DJ Louis XIV]

I started seventh grade in 1997, so I feel like that gives me a frame of reference where, like, this is, like, peak teen years. And this is also, I feel, the apex of the second wave of teen movie culture. If we have, like, John Hughes as our first wave or, like, maybe Gidget is our first wave, then we have John Hughes. Right. And then we have Y2K. And there are so many movies in this period I could have talked about. Obviously, Josie and the Pussycats was in the conversation, but I already talked about them on. On the fictional band episode. And I do have to have, like, more than one personality trait. I can't just talk about them all the time. But 10 things I hate about you. Bring it on. Even she's all that. There are so many incredible teen movies. Why did I pick this medium? Terrible one, get over it. Which, if you've never heard of it, don't be surprised. It's because I think if something achieves escape velocity from its time period, right. I think it gets recontextualized and, like, we incorporate it into our own aesthetics now. Right. Like, I couldn't bring it on. Because Bring it on is already being made in part of our time. Because it's in the thank you next video by Ariana Grande.

[Christina Tucker]

Right.

[DJ Louis XIV]

But if you find something that stayed trapped in the amber of its period, right? Like, you can extract the DNA and, like, you could make Y2K again with the blood of. Get Over It.

[Christina Tucker]

Okay, so remind us all what Get over it is about.

[DJ Louis XIV]

So Get over it is part of the proud Y2K tradition of retelling Shakespeare plays as teen movies. Of course, in this case, it is.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

That was a movement.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Yeah, a huge movement.

[Louis XIV]

Bring it back.

[DJ Louis XIV]

A Midsummer Night's Dream. A boy gets dumped by the girl he wants to be with at the beginning of it, and he ends up with a different girl by the end. The different girl is Kirsten Dunst. The boy is Ben Foster. We have Mila Kunis up in the mix. We have a lot of people, but we also have figures who exist basically in this time period and have never come back again. Like, the opening credits are, for some reason, Vitamin C. Vitamin C with a marching band.

[Christina Tucker]

Love, love will keep us together Think of me, babe Whenever some sweet talking girl comes along singing a song.

[Louis XIV]

Yeah, that sounds right. That is Y2K.

[DJ Louis XIV]

That is Y2K. You know what else is Y2K? Ben Foster's best friend slash sidekick. One of them is Colin Hanks, right? Y2K. Absolutely. Nepo, baby. A new generation. And two, the other one, Cisco. Cisco. Cisco of the Kong song. The outward credits are a duet between Cisco and Vitamin C. And if that's not Y2K, I don't know what is.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

While chasing the cloud.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Singing in the key that I saw. However, the most Y2K thing about this is this is one of those classic teen dramas where they're like, in a play, but then their lives are also mirroring the play. So there's a lot of Shakespearean nonsense, But the most Y2K thing is the theater teacher who is running this musical version of A Midsummer Night's Dream is played by Martin Short. And I am going to send a picture in the chat because I just think it's really important for you to see how Martin Short is costumed for the listeners at home. We have Martin Short. He has the classic straight up in the front styling of male hairstyle with frosted tips.

[Christina Tucker]

Frosted tips.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Frosted tips.

[Christina Tucker]

He is.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Those are frosty, frosty, frosted tips. He is tanning bed, tanned a crispy orange.

[Christina Tucker]

He's Mark McGrath.

[DJ Louis XIV]

He has Mark McGrath sideburns. Those, like, skinny ones that are, like, really, really sharp at the bottom. Very shaped.

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah.

[DJ Louis XIV]

And he has a soul patch. The man is wearing not one, but two studded leather cuffs on his wrists. And he has a shirt that has a sort of psychedelic, fiery leaf print on it that is made out of some kind of absolutely egregious polyester with those huge lapels. And what is important about this image is not even at the height of Y2K mania presently, not even now, would anyone choose to dress like this. This is not the part of Y2K that, like, you're excited to show off to other people. Like, this is what it was really like when you were in it. That is why I chose get over it, because I'm not over what this time did to me, and I want other people to understand it better.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

The crusade that you're on.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Thank you.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

I mean, Cisco. Cisco, in and of himself, makes this such a great pick to me. Like, in some ways, I'm like, is the Thong Song like the ultimate Y2K?

[Louis XIV]

I'm literally sitting here and thinking it might be.

[Christina Tucker]

I honestly considered it. I did consider the Thong Song.

[DJ Louis XIV]

But no. When you open the DVD case for this, and you have to open a DVD case because you can still smell Gap Dream just emanates out CK1 hits you right in the face.

[Christina Tucker]

I love it. Love it. Okay, Margaret, that. That is a great pick. That was the movie Get Over It. And now we're gonna throw to you Louie Louie, what is your pick?

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Okay, well, I'm gonna come in on a unique angle, and I'm gonna say a word that, you know, may not be everyone's favorite, but I feel like should be mentioned in this conversation, which is. Is 911 not everyone's favorite? I'm sorry to bring up 911 in the chat, but yes.

[Christina Tucker]

I mean, that was part of our cutoff for this experiment that feels like the end of an era in a way.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yeah, right. That's the end of Y2K to me. And it's sort of that loss of innocence.

[Christina Tucker]

Right.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

I mean, I think that, like, that is the end of whatever this moment is for culture, for our world. And so when I was thinking about this, I was like, what is sort of emblematic of that particular brand of sort of like. Like, pop macro naivete or whatever it was. And to me, that's Britney Spears and everything that surrounds her. So I picked the Oops, I Did It Again music video, which came out in 2000, directed by Nigel Dick, who had also directed her previous music video. For Baby One More Time, her infamous debut music video where she tied her shirt up. We all know that that could easily also be on this list. But I think that Oopsite did it again. Captures the things that sort of are emblematic to me about Y2K, aesthetically and specifically as it's framed through that sort of naivete, this sort of like futurism with this glossy edge. This sort of knowingly artificial futurism. Like in the video, Britney is in some sort of like space age something Mars lander.

[Christina Tucker]

What's happening up there?

[Margaret H. Wilson]

And she was hot too. I mean, let me tell you. I mean, she is at the peak of her very specific version of sort of like, I'm an innocent teen, but also I am beckoning you sexually.

[Christina Tucker]

Not a girl, not yet a woman.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

That is 100% correct. And what that sort of represents to me is this sort of techno optimism, right? Like, that we were in this moment of like, the future is here. Like, that's the thing about the turn of the millennium that was such a big deal is like, we're in the future. Like, we have arrived in 2000. Whoa. Like, the word 2000 in and of itself was like this kind of mind blowing idea. And I think this video really captures that sort of like, oh my God, the forward march of technology, like the Internet, like whatever it was. I feel like that version, that sort of like almost like completely service level, like not grappling with any of the danger of this. Just thinking about, like the fun of technology, right? Like, I feel like that's a big part of that.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Doesn't it look cool?

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yes, exactly.

[Louis XIV]

I think that's what we did. I think we were all like, yeah, doesn't tech look cool? And now we're kind of like, wait, what?

[Aisha Harris]

Whoa.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

I think palette wise, both as a song and a video, it really represents like what Y2K was about. Like bright iridescent silvers, like hot pinks, blues, like Britney's in that obviously, like.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Super gray latex latex jumpsuit.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Plastic latex jumpsuit.

[Louis XIV]

I think latex is Y2K culture.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yeah, 100% latex. And also her body, right? Like her body's very clearly shown in that outfit. And that body is the Y2K, in some ways the emblematic Y2K female ideal body. Right? Britney was that for so many people. You know, I think the idea that Christina, you were getting at in yours, which was sort of this idea of postmodernism, like this idea of like the music in particular. Oops, I did it again. When I think about, like, what sort of Swedish pop mastermind Max Martin was doing at that time.

[DJ Louis XIV]

God bless him.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

God bless him. But Max Martin's music was sort of this, like, post genre, postmodern ideal of, like, what pop could be. Like, there were no boundaries. It kind of gets into the techno future part of the whole thing, where it's like, we're not beholden to tradition, we're not beholden to boundaries. We're making R and B music, but with, like, this white girl in the front. Like, you know, roots don't matter. Like, history doesn't matter.

[Louis XIV]

We're back to Y2K. Combine everything. Everything's got to be two things.

[Christina Tucker]

It even has a Titanic reference. Like, come on now.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yes, right, exactly. And the video has a literal Titanic reference in it. Like, for, like, no apparent real reason except to just sort of say, like, what if there was a Titanic reference on this? But it all serves this idea of, like, you know, shameless capitalism in a way. Like, we're not here to talk about roots. We're not here to talk about history. We're not here to think about anything besides, like, what we'll grab and sell the most. So if that means, like, you know, a Wawa funk bass line and big electronic guitars from arena rock, and it means, like, you know, culling from black musical traditions with really no black people involved or, like, respect for where any of this is coming from, sure, sure, it didn't matter. And, like, let's throw the Titanic reference in. Like, we have flames, we have keyboard slams. There's nothing. I can't be in this. Right? Like, there's no boundaries, there's no history. We're in the future. We're in this spaceship of some sort. And Titanic's here also, you know, utopian dreams.

[Louis XIV]

Right.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Like. And I think that that's why I bring up 9 11. Cause I think that that in some ways, in relief, highlights the sort of foundational elements of this moment, which were that, like, there was this naivete. And to me, Britney Miss, you know, I'm not that innocent. But, like, you know, you are that innocent. You know, that kind of dichotomy. She embodies that very clearly to me, and especially in this video.

[Christina Tucker]

I mean, even to your point about capitalism, this is like, peak teen pop explosion, right? Like, yes, it was the year 2000. You had millennium. Backstreet Boys had just come out the year before Smashed Records. And then, you know, you have no Strings Attached Celebrity, the NSYNC album that came out in 2002. Thousand one. So it was just kind of like this moment where it crested and then it went away. But it was also as capitalistic as it was the idea that that teens could propel the culture in a way that felt not very new, but it felt like a different version of that because it was the very early Internet version of that. Oh, man. I mean, this is a great pick. I mean, all of these have been excellent picks. I think we're definitely touching on a lot of ways both different and the same, that the culture was kind of aligned aesthetically.

[DJ Louis XIV]

And that's really well represented by the Titanic reference.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yeah, totally.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Because it's not like she's like, oh, you brought me the Heart of the ocean from the movie Titanic, directed by James Cameron. Great. Heart of the Ocean. Everyone knows what that is. Everyone knows what it looks like because everyone's seen that movie. Everyone still knows what that looks like.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Totally.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Because this is sort of the last time we had a monoculture. This mono.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yes, for sure, absolutely. So I think that that's just an important sort of like element of this that then begins to fracture. I mean, the Napster thing is powerful because the minute people start being able to download music and choose their own adventures musically, that's part of the dissolving of this whole idea.

[Christina Tucker]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, great pick, Louis. You went with Oops, I Did It Again, the video for Britney Spears. And now we're gonna go to my pick from Britney to arguably one of her mothers, one of her forebears, her pop forebears. I chose a Janet Jackson song. As I already hinted. I went in the kind of the complete opposite direction of Margaret in terms of how I thought about this, which is like I wanted to figure out what kind of both lived in this space where it was forward thinking and really predicted the, that we interact and what also felt like very much, you know, of the moment and of that time. And so I chose a deep cut Janet Jackson song called Empty from her fantastic, very forward thinking album, the Velvet Rope. And I just want to start by saying the opening of this song sounds like this.

[DJ Louis XIV]

1, 2, 1, 2, 3.

[Christina Tucker]

So anyone who's listening to this who's probably under the age of like, I don't know, 25, 30, you might not know what that sound is, but that is a sound of your modem booting and having to connect your phone. Like your phone line was connected to the Internet and if you were on the Internet, you couldn't also use the phone. It was very much a point of contention in many households, including Mine when your parents were like, get off the Internet. You know, that alone. This song came out in 1997, the album came out in 1997. And so the Internet existed, chat rooms existed, but it was still very, very nascent. It was still very, very early in that time. And that sound alone to me is very Y2K. But then the concept of this song is Internet connection with someone you've never met in real life. And this is like specifically more about love than it is about necessarily like friendship. It's like a very lusting and very yearning song. But also this can apply to, you know, any sort of relationship. So here's one of the verses which will tell you everything if you can understand. Because I love Janet, but sometimes her enunciation, you know, but here we go. The way she sings, we've never met.

[DJ Louis XIV]

Like, oh my goodness.

[Christina Tucker]

Cause this song is like, it's a discovery, right? It's like I've never felt this way before. I've never connected with someone without having met them before. Like, is this a new way to love girls? You don't know? Like I met my partner slash husband, whatever I'm calling him now. Like I met him on the Internet some couple decades later after this album came out. But like it happened. And the way that this song predicts online dating, but also just how now this is how so many people interact. And catfish came out of people finding love on the Internet and being scammed. This idea of connection and the way she talks about it and the way she frames it as this is very exciting and fun, but it's also kind of depressing and leaves me empty. I feel empty. And she keeps saying I feel empty. That just hits, especially in a post Covid world. You see all these studies about younger people, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, who like don't know how to communicate in real life because they only connect on the Internet. Look, Tumblr had some great moments, great connections. Livejournal was my thing back in the day. I had a lot of people I never met who I was like, oh, I know you on lj. Like what's your handle? It's just to me, I don't know if you can get more Y2K than talking about how we connect over the Internet and how the Internet has warped our sense of belonging, our sense of understanding, our sense of just like having Internet personalities that are different from perhaps the way we are in real life. And the song is just a friggin bop. Janet wrote it with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and her then husband at the time, Rene Elizondo Jr. Like, it's just like, it sounds very 2000s, and it just kind of comes in that same mix of that era of R and B especially, but also pop. Like, NSYNC had. Digital Get Down.

[Louis XIV]

I was literally thinking about Digital Get Down. Just you and me, baby.

[Christina Tucker]

The entire Fan Mail TLC album is like, you can draw that line. It has an entire Internet, robot Y voice, interludes, and things about connecting with fans. I just think it's both. It was part of a musical moment and led to more songs and more musical culture happening in that vein in a very Y2K way. But also, like, almost all of it can apply just as much to the present day as it did then. Yeah.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Louis XIV]

I think that's what's really interesting for me about. Is, like, thinking about her in 97, thinking, like. But I feel empty even having all of these connections when I think, like, Digital get down for me is like, ooh, this is like, sexy and fun. Like, there's no negative. You know, you're 20,000 miles away, but I can see you and, like, there's excitement there. And here. I love in this one that she's like, this is interesting and new and fun, but it's not doing anything for me. And I think that is really interesting that it took us this long to get to where she's kind of at right now.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Well, leave it to Janet's, like, ultra sensitivity to capture something more nuanced in a moment that was often about sort of like maximalist overload. I think that, like, this song is unique in that way because Janet was at this moment of, like, creative zenith. This album is perhaps, like, maybe my all time favorite album, but also one of the most influential, one of the best albums ever. It is one of the best albums of all time, period. And this is maybe the best song on the record. So, like, incredible pick, like, of everything that we've spoken about maybe this entire day. I feel like as much as this sounds Y2K, I think you hear this song in contemporary music so clearly. Like, the innovation that was going on here is something that is very directly referenced by so many artists today. And, like, what do you even call this? Like, it's R and B, it's electronic music, it's pop, it's avant garde, it's mainstream, it's sexy, it's sad, it contains so many multitudes. It's so layered. I'm feeling emotional just thinking back at somebody at the dawn of this moment, looking out over the horizon and wondering about, like, what this is gonna mean for us and like how dark it is for all of us sitting here, like, knowing what it's manifested and like how bad things have become because of all of this stuff. And just like thinking about her sheer, like, prescience and brilliance in that moment, but also the naivete that we were talking about earlier. Like, she is grappling with this in layered ways, but she can't possibly really know what's coming, you know what I mean? And just sort of that sense of wonder, you know what I mean? I feel like we live in a moment that feels like we don't have a lot of wonder. And I feel even in all of her fears and anxieties that she expresses on this song, there's still that sense of, like, possibilities of what could be maybe good, maybe bad. She doesn't really know. And there's something sort of sad to me about thinking back on that moment and like, what the song encapsulates in that way.

[Christina Tucker]

Woo.

[Louis XIV]

Y2K.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

Y2K Also, everyone, like, listen to the Velvet Robe because, wow, like, any excuse to listen to that album.

[Christina Tucker]

Absolutely. Well, we want to know what you think is the most definitive piece of Y2K pop culture. Find us at facebook.com PCHH and that brings us to the end of our show. Margaret H. Wilson, Christina Tucker, DJ Louis xiv. Thanks so much for being here. You did not leave me empty. I feel full and fulfilled.

[Louis XIV]

Same same girl power.

[Margaret H. Wilson]

And let's just say Y2K was better here.

[Christina Tucker]

This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Janae Morris and Mike Katsif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello. Kamin provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from npr. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all next time.

[Aisha Harris]

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[Margaret H. Wilson]

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