Beating "I'll Think About It". Retail Science & the Ultimate Optical Playbook with Kayla Ashlee & Eugene Shatsman

Summary

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Power Hour Optometry: Beating "I'll Think About It" – Retail Science & the Ultimate Optical Playbook

Host: Eugene Shatsman
Guest: Kayla Ashlee (Specsy)
Date: January 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a pervasive problem in optometry: the slump in optical capture rates—patients walking out with just an eye exam and buying nothing. Host Eugene Shatsman and expert guest Kayla Ashlee dive deep into actionable strategies, retail psychology, and specific merchandising tactics to proactively drive sales, especially in a climate of perceived price sensitivity and changing consumer behavior. Their approach combines hard data, retail science, and insights into generational differences, offering listeners a masterclass in optimizing every aspect of the patient journey—without relying on outdated or passive sales tactics.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Problem: Slipping Optical Capture Rates

• Practices report more “exam only” visits—patients come for a refraction, but don’t purchase glasses or contacts (03:05–04:49).
• National data shows patients are spending less per optical transaction.
• The temptation for practices is to “wait it out,” but Eugene and Kayla argue for a proactive, data-driven response.

2. Proactive Data-Driven Change

• Kayla’s Approach: Track capture rate before and after implementing new techniques. (04:49–07:34)
  • Focus: Human interaction, strategic inventory, and intentional merchandising.
• Practices that adopt these changes see real increases in capture rates.

Quote:
"What we ended up doing was ... taught these offices how to be more charismatic, how to have influence with their patients. ... Our capture rate's going up like crazy." — Kayla (04:49)

3. Are Patients Really More 'Price Sensitive?'

• Kayla refutes the idea that spending is down across the board, pointing to continued purchases of high-end goods in other sectors. (09:40–11:12)
• The real issue is the VALUE presented to patients in-office, not price alone.

Quote:
"People are still spending. … It has nothing to do with spending. It has more to do with us giving a value so that the patient wants to purchase." — Kayla (09:40)

4. Generational Shifts: How to Sell to Gen Z

• Gen Z is happy to buy when they see customization, personalization, and identity in products (11:28–13:58).
• Practices can tap into this by emphasizing the custom, made-for-you nature of eyewear—not just flashy brands.
• Pre-shop opportunities (like Optifi) work by letting patients explore options online before visiting, making the in-office experience more engaging (16:29–18:57).

Quote:
"Gen Z will go about spending more money than a millennial ... They love customization, they love personalization, they love things that are made for them." — Kayla (11:28)

5. Killer Sales Tactics: “No More ‘Do You’”

• Kayla's rule: Never ask yes/no questions like "Do you want to look for glasses today?" (19:34–21:24)
• Assume the sale with “yes or yes” questions: e.g., “Are we going for more color this year, or sticking with black?” (21:26–27:07)
• Encourage deep conversations about style, lifestyle, and identity—no more boring questionnaires. Mirror back their words and priorities.

Quote:
"No more of that. ... Assume that they are going to be purchasing from you." — Kayla (19:34)

6. The Science of Retail Merchandising

• Small physical changes have major impact.
  • Frame boards: Avoid “frameboard chaos” (33:57–38:52)
    • Avoid overwhelming walls of similar frames; use “eyelines” (rows of sunglasses or bold frames) to guide the eye.
    • Place top-performing (“A styles”) frames directly below the eyeline.
  • Feature tables & rugs: Use rugs to subconsciously draw people into shopping zones, just like Macy’s or casinos do.
  • Streamlining choices: The “jam study” proves that fewer, better-chosen brands outperform a crowded, confusing selection (43:38–47:31).
    • 25 brands (including sunglass/ophthalmic counted separately) is ideal for most.

Retail Science Quote:
"If you put an eyeline, you'll see your A styles will sell better right underneath the eyeline. What, like that? That's retail science." — Kayla (34:21)

7. Showcasing & Inventory Strategy

• Avoid piecemeal displays; group enough pieces of same-brand eyewear together to signal abundance and encourage sales (49:08–54:01).
• For sunglasses, fewer brands with deeper representation outperform many brands with just a few models each.
• Always have top sells (“A styles”) in multiple colors, placed in prime positions.

8. Influence & Behavior Change

• Staff influence must be intentional and universal—not just opticians, but everyone who touches the patient journey.
• Merchandising tweaks, proactive language, and offering choice (but not too much) all stack the odds.

9. Pricing: Raising on the Right Frames

• Don’t just bulk-increase markup. Only raise prices on A styles—the 3 most popular models in each brand (56:11–62:43).
• When offices raised A style prices by $30, 92% saw flat or increased sales volume (units), even at the higher price.
• Key: Only raise price after implementing supporting tactics (multiple colors, top shelf placement, merchandising).

Memorable Data Point:

“For all of the offices that increase the retail price of their A style frames by $30, 92% either saw a consistency in sales or an increase in sales.” (63:09)

10. Final Takeaway

• Retail science principles applied to opticals—alongside unified team effort and intentional influence—can reverse declining sales trends even in a tougher economy.
• Subtle details (language, display, number of choices, pricing) cumulatively create dramatic change.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It has more to do with us giving value so that the patient wants to purchase—that's where the loss is.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [09:56]

• “Gen Z really loves this kind of thing: to be able to say these are completely made specifically for you ... they're going to buy it.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [13:38]

• “Stop saying ‘do you’ to your patients—assume they are going to purchase from you.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [19:36]

• “Your A styles, your top performing styles, need to be right below that eyeline ... you’ll see your A styles will sell better.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [34:21]

• “We tested this: if you take 50 sunglass frames and display four or five brands (instead of ten), your sunglasses will sell better—proven.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [51:16]

• “For all of the offices that increased the retail price of their A style frames by $30, 92% saw the same or higher sales.”
  — Kayla Ashlee [63:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:06–03:00 | Setting the Stage: Eugene introduces capture rate problem, introduces Kayla and episode’s proactive approach.
• 03:05–04:49 | Key Metrics & Data: Defining capture rate, why it matters.
• 04:49–07:34 | Capturing Data Before and After Change: Kayla shares her tracking approach and positive outcomes from even simple “charisma” training.
• 09:40–11:12 | Is Price Sensitivity Real? Kayla challenges the “patients are spending less” premise.
• 11:28–13:58 | Selling to Gen Z: Customization, personalization, pre-shopping trends.
• 16:29–18:57 | Pre-Shop Tools: Using “Optifi” or similar for online pre-selection, staff’s critical consultative role.
• 19:34–21:21 | Killing “Do You” Language: Assumptive language, “yes or yes” framing.
• 27:07–33:14 | Retail Science and Influence: Influence as intentionality, example of hospital water vs. soda study.
• 33:57–38:52 | Merchandising in Optical: Eyeline, avoiding “frameboard chaos,” feature rugs and retail cues.
• 43:38–47:31 | The Jam Study: Too many choices hurt sales, best practice for number of brands.
• 47:47–54:01 | Inventory Numbers: Ideal numbers of frames, vendors, and brands; proper brand showcasing.
• 56:11–62:43 | Pricing A Styles: Kayla’s study on targeted price increases (with astounding results).
• 64:18–End | Key Takeaways and Contact Info

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Memorable Moments

• Kayla’s “dropping the F bomb”: Calling “Do you want to look?” language the equivalent of cursing at a patient ([19:34]).
• The “jam study” analogy that fewer, clearer choices boost action ([43:38]).
• Rug and carpet science: Drawing parallels with department stores and casinos to explain why physical comfort zones encourage spending ([37:46]).
• Hard data on A style price increases—“If that’s not a reason to raise the price, I don’t know what is” ([63:44], Eugene).

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Resources / How to Reach Kayla Ashlee

• Website: https://spexsy.co
  • Free resources, info on memberships, and contact details.

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In Summary

This episode delivers a masterclass on improving optical sales by applying retail science, understanding generational preferences, and making simple but profound merchandising changes. It dispels myths around price sensitivity and offers specific guidance on pricing, assortment, and staff training—all backed by real-world data and practical tips you can implement immediately.

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Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

We are now in our 14th season. I'm your host, Eugene Shotsman, and today we're going straight into one of the most frustrating trends we saw throughout 2025. Optical capture rates slipping. And we've talked about on the show as exam only, but this is basically patients walking out with a fresh refraction and buying absolutely nothing. And look, I know a lot of practices are sitting on the sidelines and quietly hoping that this is just kind of a seasonal thing or things will eventually go back to normal. The episode is my first stab at basically saying, nope. On the power Hour. We're not waiting it out. We're getting proactive. And so my guest today is Kayla Ashley from Specsy. She's back because she's obsessed in the best possible way with stuff that actually moves the needle in your optical. So we talk about human influence, we talk about retail science, we talk about intentional merchandising. And what I love about Kayla is that she doesn't just give you theoretical stuff. She actually gets super specific about what actually to do. So when you listen to this episode, there's a lot of stuff we dig into. But, you know, a few examples. Patients are price sensitive. Is that a real thing, or is that kind of a lazy explanation? What's actually happening behind the scenes? How do you win over Gen Z? Because this is some of the patients that are leaving and not buying anything, but maybe you can actually lean into what they crave and adapt to their personalities without really changing anything. About your frame board, we talk about retail science, things that you can actually implement this week. We talk about eyelines, frameboard chaos. We talk about feature tables, we talk about rugs. And there's just a lot of little things that make a really big difference. But one of my favorite components of this episode is the study that Kayla did in some of her practices or some of her client practices. And she. She talks about this concept of A styles. And when done correctly, you can increase price on all of these A styles. And the data showed that offices that increase price actually increased or kept their sales the same of these A styles or increased their sales as a result of increasing price. So this is like. There's a lot of interesting nuance in this episode. So this is a legit masterclass if you want fewer exam onlys, stronger capture, and an optical, that feels like an intentional retail environment that's designed to sell. So let's get into it. This is our episode with Kayla from Specsy. And right before we do that, I just want to remind you to make sure that you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your episodes. And certainly if there's in any point you want to reach out and connect with me directly or suggest an episode topic, you can do so@eugene shotsman.com and now let's jump into our episode with Kayla Ashley. Kayla, welcome to the Power Hour. Excited to have you back on the show.

[A]

I am so stinking excited to be here. I'm really excited about all these topics we're going to talk about today.

[B]

Yeah. So, and just let's frame it up for the audience. So 2025, one of the biggest issues consistently that was both expressed by people who own practices and also that was really clearly visible in the data was optical capture rate. And when we think about optical capture rate, that basically means any patient coming in to their eye doctor, getting a refraction, walking out without buying anything. And I also call that, I refer to that on the show commonly as exam only. So exam only data clearly shows exam only was on the rise in 2025. Data clearly shows that our patients are spending a little bit less per transaction in our opticals. And so we're seeing a more price sensitive consumer. We're seeing capture it. And some practices that I've talked to have said, okay, I'm just going to throw my hands up in the air and I hope that this season passes and we'll get back to the good old days. And I believe that having you on the show is my commitment to staying in the industry. Listen, we have to be proactive. We have to have a proactive approach. We can't just let this happen to us. So there's a lot of different things that we need to be able to focus on and in order to get our patients to actually engage with us and to, and to find value in sticking around and shopping in our optical. So Kale and I have a lot of topics that we're going to cover on the show today, but first and foremost, let's talk about the numbers. So, Kale, if I had to ask you, obviously there's a big topic of capture rates, but what are the numbers that you tend to really pay attention to in a practice that ultimately help drive capture rates?

[A]

Yeah, great question. And you know, hearing you talk about your numbers, where you're, you know, being able to capture all this data from these offices and really being able to look at that trend, that's going down a little bit. What's funny is that with myself and my members, we're not really seeing that trend as much, because we're making all of these changes to actually influence a better capture rate. So the things that we're watching are things like when our patients come in, you know, for their exams, making sure that we're influencing them to purchase essentially from the moment they walk in the door. And so the data that we're looking at is that capture rate before they start implementing these critical pieces of really human interaction. And then a few months later, after they start implementing these teachings that we give them, we're looking at that data and we're going, holy cow. And if I can give you something that is really, I guess, intriguing, it happened by accident. I think we may have talked about it before, but essentially what happened was I went into a few offices that I was doing immersion events in, and they were really lackluster in their energy and excitement to be there. And so what we ended up doing was, was we taught these offices, long story short is we taught these offices how to be more charismatic, how to be a little bit more exciting, how to have influence with their patients. And unintentionally, we got calls from these offices where the doctors were like, holy cow, what did y' all do? Our capture rate's going up like crazy. And I'm like, that looks so great. So the first bit of data is controlling, basically seeing what offices are doing before and then seeing what they're doing after implementing these trainings. As far as other pieces of data that we're collecting is we're making sure that with the data, with what is offered out in the optical, as far as inventory, we're collecting bits of data that allow for us to make more strategic purchases. And what we are basically showcasing in our opticals and what, honestly, we're getting rid of, that's a big piece, because so many times we keep things in the optical that shouldn't be there. And then I would say the last bit of kind of like metric data is that we can show basically the influence of how we can influence patient buying by how things are merchandised out in the optical. And look at those capture rates before change up the merchandising to be much more strategic. And then look at those capture rates after. So that's what we're really looking at.

[B]

And you know what? I think that makes perfect sense because you're saying you're coming back to the data being the core capture rate, but you're saying, let's baseline it beforehand, let's baseline after, afterwards, and we're going to talk about some of the things that you have to do in order to. And I think we've got a whole plan to talk about some retail science and the concept of influence in general across the practice.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But, you know, I think one of the things. And I like to think about metrics as opportunity metrics. Right. If you think about if you can really narrow down your capture rate into something that you can use to influence behavior internally. Right. Because how do you manage behavior? I don't think you manage the actual metric. You manage the behavior that drives the metric. And so a capture rate is a really broad metric. But then if you say, okay, you know what, I'm going to focus really hard on exam only. That's a really descriptive metric that you say, okay, I know what that means. That means that somebody walked in, had an exam, walked out. So I can measure the behavior that drove that particular. That particular metric, and I can manage that particular behavior. And so when I think about opportunity metrics that you can measure against, that would be your exam only. That would be your lens only. So a patient came in, did not buy frames or did. Right. Did not buy frames, and said, okay, I'm going to buy lenses only. Your CL. Fit only. Right. So I thought I got a contact lens fit, but I'm probably going to get my contact lens somewhere else. And so these are all what we call opportunity metrics. And then you say, okay, but why is that happening now? Kale, one of the things that I've heard, and I know you have a different view on this, but one of the things that I've heard is that, hey, consumers have fewer discretionally, discretionary dollars to spend. They're just not spending money in the optical. And what do you think about that? And realistically, are we just not talking to the consumer the right way?

[A]

Yeah, I, I disagree. Because there are still people out there buying 300 shoes. And it's pretty darn common, right? Some fancy Nikes or something like that. People are still spending. The reality is, is like, coach isn't going under right now. These are the big, big, beautiful, big, big expensive things are going under. And it kills me when we have a patient that walks in that's wearing this really fancy purse and these really cute shoes and this really amazing, you know, ensemble. And then they want to, you know, spend with their. With their insurance covers. Cool. You know, but the reality is, is it has nothing to do with spending. It has more to do with us giving a value so that the patient wants to purchase that. Right? That's where the loss is. And maybe I'm going to give you, I'll give you this. Maybe now in today's society, it's a little bit easier maybe for someone to be like, no, I'm good. Because they have other options. Right? It's not like back 40 years ago when you were the only place that sold I care, you know, opportunities or any sort of contact lenses or, or frames or lenses when you were the only one in town or it was you in a big box store. Right now they have all of this opportunity right there at the palm of their hand. So what I will give you is that now the only difference is that you have to work a little harder. You actually have to give that perceived value to the patients for them to understand it. So. So, yeah, so as far as people spending less, I call bs.

[B]

Okay, fine. Is there a generational component to this? Do you think that there is a world in which maybe we're just not selling in a way that younger patients may want to be receiving that information?

[A]

Yes, 100%. We are not selling in a way that patients, that younger patients want to perceive this. And there's actually a big, I guess, course that I am creating on this whole idea with, you know, working with Gen Z as patients and kind of like Gen Z behaviors and things like that. Because the reality is, is that myself, being a millennial, Gen Z will go about spending more money than a millennial, which is quite interesting. The reason why is because they have. They can see value in things. They've only grown up with the Internet, period. So they see all these Internet things. They see all the crap they can get on the Internet. They see all the good stuff they can get on the Internet. And actually a lot of the Gen Z is less into the flashy like we were as millennials. They're less into the flashy, but they're more into identifying what it is unique about them. And so they love customization, they love personalization, they love things that are made for them. Right. It doesn't have to be flashy. It doesn't have to necessarily, sometimes for some people, but overall, the idea is that they want to have their identity being portrayed in what it is that they're purchasing, and they are happy to spend money when they can have that. Now here's the really interesting part is that some people, you know, in having these conversations with us in the industry, some are like, well, oh, great, so now we got to, you know, make up completely custom frames and completely everything else. Hold up, listen to yourself. What was the messaging that we've been giving people now for years. This is a completely custom product. This is why we can't return it. This is what. Yeah, I know. Now use that as a selling point, right? Gen Z really loves this kind of thing to be able to say these are completely made split specifically for you. Now we can make this lens in many different ways, but because you told me that you are a gamer on the weekends and that you are, you know, finishing up school, we're going to go ahead and put in this anti fatigue lens so that you will have beautiful distance, you know, when you're using it most of the time. But when you do get on your phone or when you are doing that school work, your eyes are not having to work as hard and you're going to see a whole lot less fatigue. We're making these specifically for your needs. They're going to buy it. They're going to buy it because I'm going to tell you right now, online is not selling them that customization. It still feels very cookie cutter, you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. And it's totally true. And I like to think about this. If you compare it to everything else going on in the world right now, you think about the fact that this is the generation that's adopting AI at a really natural pace, right? This is the generation that's saying, okay, I'm going to go to AI first to answer my questions and then I'm going to go do Internet search if I can't find it. And that's really unlikely to happen anyway. And so the reason why they're doing that is because their, their relationship with information has changed first. And we're all experiencing that change right now. But if you think about what happened with relationship of information in general over the last 30 years, right? In 1998, Google came out and Google said, okay, we now have accessible information. Previously you would have to go to disparate places and books and libraries and, you know, card catalogs and whatever. And all of a sudden Google had this audacious idea going to make information accessible to people. Then the smartphones, Apple and Samsung in particular, came out in, you know, 10ish years later and said, okay, we're going to make that accessible information convenient for everybody. Because now you don't have to go to a computer. You can use a device that fits on the palm of your hand to get accessible information conveniently. And now AI has come out and said, okay, you know, whichever one you use, Grok or ChatGPT or Claude or Gemini, it doesn't really matter because the goal is to then customize that information to search all of the world's information and customize to exactly what your question, what your input, what your prompt is. And we're now getting more and more used to that as consumers for sure. But I think Gen Z is one of the first areas where we're saying, okay, well our relationship with information has become such that everything is customized to us. Right. I no longer have to do a general Google search and God forbid click on a page and then read that page, oh my God, and then click the back button and then click on the next page and read that page to get all my information. I expect someone to customize my experience for me. And you're saying that's what we should be doing on the optical as well, which I think is a really interesting approach. So besides lenses, what else can I do as a, if I'm running a top performing optical, what else can I do in my optical to truly customize that experience for Gen Z?

[A]

Great question. There are a few great tools out there, but basically we teach it as what's called pre selling people in today's society, not just Gen Z. When we think about, okay, I'm gonna have to go, I'm gonna go get, I don't know my nails done. I'm gonna go get my nails done before I go to my nail place. I'm pulling up Pinterest and I'm like cutest nails for winter. You know, that's what I'm doing. Right? We're always looking at things like winning new ideas, you know, things like that. So having a type of pre shop opportunity, we really like what optifi is doing right now. But having a pre shop opportunity is really beneficial for you and your consumer. So what that looks like is it's basically a reminder that goes out that says, hey Kayla, you're going to be scheduled with Dr. Smith on Monday at 9am we wanted to give you a link into all of the great frames that are at our optical. So go ahead and take a look around. Now here's what's beautiful. Is that your patient when they're coming in for their eye appointment. Just like I'm searching Pinterest for nail ideas, they're searching up what's the new and latest trends on eyewear. If you can catch that and have those trends coming into your office with your optical and your selection and the brands that you carry, that is a huge opportunity. Then we can also see because of this, because of some of these services that are out there. We can see where the patient is clicking. The things that they like, they can add it to, they can like hard it so that when they come in there, you've already got this curated thing of styling all right there for them. And here's what's really beautiful for those of us that are weirded out by putting our stuff on online. That's not how it is at all. But the reality is, is that what's really interesting is that most of the frames that people end up choosing once they get out to the optical, they've looked through the ones that they really, that they chose online and then the ones that you as the optical expert have given them, they rarely end up going with the ones that they chose. They often end up going with the ones that have your expertise attached to them. Because often it's not a great fit or it's not all these other things. Which further validates the necessity of having an optical expert there. Right. Because there's stuff that online AI all these other things. Yeah, there's stuff that they can do. But the reality is, is that human interaction is something that's never going to be taken away. And so you're further validating that with these types of pre shop opportunities.

[B]

Yeah, And I think what I love about that is that you're again reminding everybody that the person who is, whether they're your optician or even if you want to start the process with the tech, they're constantly need to be building value for your practice and the shopping experience at your practice as opposed to being like, hey, did you want to look for glasses today? If so, like the man side is on that side of the right. Like that's the. But, but that's right. Feel free to look around, you know, let me know if you need any help. Right.

[A]

No, absolutely not. No more of that. No more of that. We just said do you. Here at Sexy with my members, we call that dropping the F bomb. That's basically like cursing to your patient in the optical. There's no do use, there's no yes or no questions. It is all under the pretense that they're going to buy from you, that they want to buy from you. So all of our verbiage needs to match that accordingly. So yeah. Do you. Oh, stop. If there's anything that you take away from today's talk, stop saying do you to your patients assume that they are going to be purchasing from you. I need you to have more conversation in your opticals to your patients. That is again, assumptive that they're going to be buying. So examples would be like, oh, Kayla, I see that you've got these beautiful black frames that you have here this year. Are we going for a little bit more color? Let me show you a few different options. You take them there. Okay. Yeah. So are we going for more color? That's a yes or no. But that's, we're still choosing more color or black. Right. So the idea is that we don't want to give them the option to shut things down. We're, we're giving the assumption that they keep moving forward. And here's what's really funny is that in today's purchasing society, they want us. We're used to being asked to buy more. Buy more, buy more. I try not to buy from Amazon a lot because I try and shop local. That's one of my big things. But the other day I was out of this stuff that I needed to wrap gifts and so I get online on Amazon and I get my one gift wrapping thing that I need and then here we go. It asked me, well, are you sure you don't want these things? You know, you can still add these things to your cart and if you add them by 2pm you can. And I almost, I almost was like, do I need it by 2pm let's see if there's anything else in there that I need to get up by 2:00pm No, I don't. Okay, it's fine. But like they're trying. Like we're, we're used to this as a society with this assumptive. You want to buy more, don't you? Yeah.

[B]

Right. And we have to catch the office.

[A]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[B]

So the, the question is, when you're doing this, how important is it when you were talking about Gen Z, how important is it to make sure that you position yourself as really the style expert that you're really customizing? As you were talking about it, I was thinking like we really have to make the patient believe that I am truly customizing the selection to you and your face and your specific scenario and your preferences and your style. Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's extraordinarily important. And the way that the conversation really should be tailored when you're working with someone who's especially Gen Z. But honestly, it's going to help us level up for all of our patients because in all reality, we should be giving more of this attention to detail to all of our patients. But to have your Gen Z patient there in front of you, it's so Much more than. Do you like nose pads or no nose pads? No, we're not. We're not there anymore. It needs to be. So tell me a little bit about your style. Tell me a little bit about what you're going for. And if they don't say anything right. We like, tell me a lot because it gets people to open up. Some people are just, you know, little stinkers and they don't say anything. So then you start giving options. So, so tell me, are you a little bit more of kind of on the flashy side or a little bit more subtle? Oh, definitely more subtle. Okay, so on the more subtle side, did we want something that tells me that you don't want anything that's like big and bulky, kind of a little bit more sleek? Are there certain styles that you were thinking of or are there certain celebrities or anything like that that you saw that you kind of want to mimic or something that you thought was cool? So starting these conversations, we've got a whole little list of all these great little conversation starters that we can have with our patients to really start to pull things out of them. So many offices love their lifestyle questionnaires pages. I hate them. I think they're so annoying because this is conversation we should be having. And when someone is marking it off, yes or no, they're not really thinking about it. But if we're having a conversation with them about their lifestyle, about how they're, you know, going to night school to finish their degree and about how they're doing these things, these are huge opportunities. We talk a lot about mirroring. Mirroring is really fantastic in the optical, physical mirrors. And mirroring, we can talk about that in a little bit. But also mirroring in your conversation is a really great way to earn the trust of another human. And so when someone says that I have, you know, I doing this night school to, you know, finish out my degree and then, you know, I'm working all day on the weekends. I like doing my video gaming, which is, you know, how I get my relaxation in. Okay, so then we're using those words when we repeat back to them. Okay, this is a really good opportunity right here. These are going to be really great frames for you to have kind of an all day just because they're just a little bit more subtle. But if you want to have something kind of fun during your off times, these frames are a whole lot more, maybe exciting, maybe a little bit more gamer style. Right. So. So you're able to use some of these not just in the lens Selection. But you're able to use some of these little. These bits of. We call. We call it like, you know, verbal pieces of honey that is just like, oh, use that. Use that. Get it. Get that in there. And use that in your ability to sell to them when it comes to frames and styling, because that's the customization that they're looking for. They're wanting to know that you hear them. And then once you do, then they're like, yeah, this sounds great. This is awesome. Right? There's one office that we were working with where the front desk gal. Because I like to do l. Teen trainings. I don't just teach the opticians. Sorry, all y' all have touch points with the doctor or with the patient, doctors included. I need to be training all of you at one time. And one of the gals at the front desk, she goes. She's like, well, I wish my mom talked like this. Because I was about this, like, age of her mom, I'm guessing. She's like, I wish my mom talked to me like this. And I'm like, maybe I should teach a parenting class. But the ability for people to feel heard isn't that far off. But what's really interesting, and I actually give this in my talk, I have a CE talk that I do where basically I go through all this list of things that is really annoying to the current generations about the future generations, the up and coming ones. And then this list of things, it's talking about how they dress, how it's so sloppy, how they speak. And, like, it shows no refinement in how they speak. And. And all of these different things. I think there's like eight or 12 different things on this list. Right? And what's really interesting is people are like, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Right? And even people my age is millennials. We're looking at the Gen Z and we're like, yeah. And the reality is, is that was a list that was published. I'm going to get the magazine wrong, but it was published in a magazine, like, in the 50s.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

That list was actually published in a magazine in the 50s. And so what's really interesting is that this isn't anything new. This is just generational change that we're just getting used to. And what's. What's really. I think that we have as our benefit is because we have all this information and technology and ability to adapt, that maybe our grandparents did it, you know, back in the 50s and 60s when they were going through these generational Changes, we have the opportunity to make an adaptation rather than be the old grumpy Gus that's back. That's not going to change how they do things.

[B]

Kayla, what I love is the yes or yes questions on the optical. And I think this maybe takes us to the science of retail merchandising. But I think that my one thing that I love is this whole idea of are you more subtle or are you more flashy? Are you this or are you that? So the second that you've got yes or yes questions, I don't. I'm really sucked in because you're now. You are now being my consultant. You are now taking my preferences into account, which I absolutely, absolutely love. So I wanted to kind of think about this because you talk a lot about influence, and I. And I love some of your lectures on influence, But I wanted to take this right into the retail science arena. So let's talk about that whole field and then let's talk about some of this whole concepts of influence that in particular, I think you alluded to earlier in the episode that might be relevant in helping solve this. Capture a problem.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, okay. So influencing people out in our optical is something that really has always been happening, if I can be honest. It's always been happening in our optical. We've always been influencing people. The thing is, is that we just don't know how we're influencing them. And the sad part about that is because it's not being done with intentionality, we're influencing them to not purchase from us. It's really quite amazing. And we do, as part of our services for our premium members with Specsy, we have what are called merchandising meetings. And merchandising meetings are where the optical will actually go out into their office and they will take a video basically of the patient journey. Like, show me where the patient is taking you and all these other things. Okay, cool. So they take us out on this patient journey, and then they also take us in the optical, and they take pictures of the optical like as a360 to be able to see everything. And then we take all those images and we put them into basically a digital whiteboard where we can show them. Here is what's happening out in your optical right now. And here is a few different renditions of how we can go about changing things, certain things. What's beautiful is that I can tell you right now, I can give you all the keys to the kingdom, tell you all the things that are stopping your patience from Going into your optical and spending money. But the reality is, is that until you see it, that's when you go, oh, dang, that does work in our optical. Oh, heck, that looks really good. Right. And so some of the things that we are really focusing on is how this retail science is really influencing our patients. And there was a really great study that I read in a book called Atomic Habits. I don't know if you're familiar, but this study was done at a hospital, Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. Okay. And what happened at this hospital is they wanted to see if they could influence their employees, employees of the hospital to stop drinking so much soda and to start drinking more water. Okay. That was the whole thing. They wanted to influence them, but they didn't want them to feel pressured. The, the test was we're going to influence their purchases without actually talking to them or telling them what to do. We're going to change up how we merchandise our, our cafeteria to, to make sure to see if we can influence how they purchase. You ready for the result? It's really cool.

[B]

Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

[A]

So it was a six month study and what happened was this whole idea of choice. Like, they still have a choice, but how are we influencing that choice? Okay. Now here's what's really cool, is that within three months, okay. This is really cool. They had dropped the number of soda sales by 11.4%. Okay. And they have increased the purchases of water by 26% without doing anything else. We are influencing how these people are purchasing water versus soda. Okay. And what they had done in this cafeteria was they had like the point of sale spot. They had where the water containers were and they had where all of these other things were. But then right next to the, the cash register, they had a bucket of these really nice waters that were in this like chilled little bucket. Okay. And then they had, on the way in between each of the food stations, they had water sitting there. And what was interesting is that they didn't have more water. They had more strategically placed water throughout the cafeteria. And they were able to sell 20, what I say, 26% more water than what they had sold historically. Ever. That is stinking amazing.

[B]

Yeah. And it's interesting is that like soda sales went down by 11%, but water sales increased. And it's water. So like probably there's also a drinking fountain somewhere in the cafeteria. So.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

It's interesting.

[A]

So it's, it's, it's easily available, it's readily available, but the idea was they wanted to see how they can influence our employees to be more healthy. And sure as heck they do it. Which goes to show that people will, let me say people will more often choose, make their choice based upon necessarily a little less of what is there and where it is. Right. They choose products based on their convenience. We choose things based on its, I guess, ability to really alert us. Right. But the. The intentionality is. Is something that has this. Has this cafeteria always had the same amount of water there? Yeah, totally. Just like our opticals have always been doing the same darn thing that we've been doing for decades now. But if we're just intentional about how we're retailing it, there can be a huge opportunity, and I'm going to say there is a huge opportunity in bettering your influence to your patients.

[B]

Okay. Okay. So, and I just want to confirm for this particular study is that nobody actually talked to the people about buying more water. There was not a checkout person. It was like, would you like a water with that today? Or anything like that? Right.

[A]

Yeah. The checkout people had no idea, absolutely no idea that this was even happening. From the.

[B]

So this was strictly by the merchandising science component. So this is literally the. I guess that's why we call it retail science, is that this is literally a test run in a closed environment where you legitimately don't even have to talk to the person. You just have to present the products a little bit differently. So tell me how that translates to the optical.

[A]

Okay, so how that translates to the optical are certain things that we are noticing. I've kind of picked the top things that we're seeing in offices as far as merchandising opportunities. So the first thing is when your patient walks into your optical and they look at specifically frame boards. Sometimes we see this with shelves. But for those of you who have framed boards, listen very, very carefully. Frame boards. Your patient walks up to that board and it just looks like a sea of all black rectangular frames. That's what it looks like to them. We know that it's not that way, but to them, that's exactly what it looks like. And so what we need to do is, is to the mind, that looks like total chaos. And so what we need to do is to have some ability for the. For the eye to rest and then give it influence on where it's going to look next. So have you ever seen those things online where it's just like a page of text and it's just got different typography of text. And it says you're going to read this first. And then at the bottom it says you're going to read this. And the next you'll read this. And at the very top, you know, in the little tiny font and says you'll read this last. And you're like, oh, my gosh, that's exactly how I just read that. How did they know? The reality is, is because when we look at it, our mind is, is so predictable that we can tell where it's going to go and how it's going to read the context of all of that text that we see on the page. Now, one of the big, I guess, reasons for this is what we call an eyeline. An eyeline is used a lot in photography and marketing, advertising, all that funness, because an eyeline is where your eyes will go and that's where the brain will rest. And so something that we do in the eye care industry to allow for an eyeline on our sea of pegboards that are killing me is we, we utilize a sunglass eyeline to allow for your consumer to walk up to that frame board. They will look at the, the eyeline first and then you know exactly where they're going to look next, right underneath the eyeline. So your A styles, your top performing styles need to be right below that eyeline. And this is something that we teach very heavily. There's a right and a wrong way to do the eyeline. There's all this other stuff, but just like that page that says you'll read this first, then this last, this, whatever. The same thing is also true when somebody walks up to your frame boards. If you put an eyeline, you'll see your ASA will sell better. Right underneath the island. What like that? That's. That, my friend, is retail science. That's really fabulous. Now let's go into another one. Another one is that you need to have something to draw people in. And I have a lot of offices. This is for all my offices that I've had maybe remodels. You have that nice hardwood floor or that tile floor or whatever. Okay. I want you to think about when you walk into a Macy's. During my merchandising meetings. I give all these visuals. So I do explain my visuals right now. But you walk into a Macy's, you're coming in from the mall, you know, entrance, and you will notice if you. Next time you go into a Macy's or Bloomingdale's or anything like that, any of these big department stores, the flooring of the. Of the mall usually will match or be very similar to the first bit of flooring that you see within the store. Why? Because they don't want that barrier to entry, right? They don't. They want nothing stopping you from just flowing right on in there. Okay? So that flooring is really important. Now, the next thing that you'll notice is within, let's say, Macings, Bloomingdale's, whatever is that they have the walkways that are made from, let's just say, this particular tile or whatever. But where you are buying, where the. Where the purchasing is done, it's usually carpet or it's tile versus hardwood. And the hardwood actually has a plush underneath it because subconsciously, you are more comfortable. When you're more comfortable with the flooring in a certain spot, you're more willing to spend. Let me give you another example. Think of a casino. You're walking through a casino, okay? You have the walkways in the casino, very thoroughfare, right? Where are all the tables where people are spending their money or those machines? They're on that ugly sinking carpet that happens to be really cushy. Notice next time you're walking through Vegas when you're. When you go over there, the flooring is very cushy. Why? Because you're more. Subconsciously, you are more likely to spend money there than you are on the main thoroughfare. So let's take that back to the opticals. So in our opticals, when we're looking at, you know, how we can encourage our patients to spend more money, we encourage what we call brand feature tables, which are really fabulous. But what you're doing is you're putting a carpet around a rug around to draw people in, because that plushness enough will draw people in, and then it'll allow for them to stay. So in some of your biggest purchasing areas, you want a nice little rug there. And there's a right and wrong way to do a rug. We teach you about all this too, but that's a bit. Another big opportunity there.

[B]

So is it. Is it that I actually feel the softness under my feet, or is it that my brain says there's a rug there, therefore I must go there because it's more comfortable than the. Than the other floor that I'm on.

[A]

Oh, great question. I don't know which is which. All I know is that it works. This is retail science. It's a big deal. I don't know which is. Which comes first, you know, with chicken or the egg there. But subconsciously we know, oh, this is more comfortable. Oh, this is great. Now, are you going to be standing there in the purchasing element, wherever it is, at a. At a Bloomingdale's or a Macy's or your optical and go, oh, I'm going to go stand on that carpet. No, no. This is all subconscious influence. Oh, yeah. That we're influenced.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

They're not going to go up to your optical and be like, okay, where's the eyeline? These are the best ones. No, they're not going to. No. Nobody ever does that. But just as we have all of these suggestive things in our online purchasing or all of these suggestive things when we go into a store, like, my best example that everyone knows about is at your local grocery store. Okay. Down the cereal aisle. Everybody knows all the sugary kids cereals are where they're at their eye level. The sugary kids cereals, if you guys have not noticed this, just go to. I'm not making it up. This is, like the epitome of retail science. All of the sugary kids cereals are at your waist level and below. Why? Because that's where the kids are. So when you're taking your kids there, that's why they're like, mom, I want this one. I want this one.

[B]

Right. And hilariously, the slightly healthier option for that same exact cereal is at my eyeline or slightly above. That's exactly because I'm like, okay, well, no, not the frosted Flakes, honey, but, like, the. The whole grain stuff, whatever.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, the whole grain Frosted Flakes.

[B]

Like, we got a tiger on it. But, like, he's, like, a little bit more depressed because there's no frosting.

[A]

That's right. That's exactly right. So what's even more interesting is that there it gets down to the retail science, to the point of the. The grocery store. So the grocery store doesn't set this. They don't really know. They don't. Honestly, there are a lot of them. We're not talking, like, the Walmarts and the big ones, but if it was, like, a small local grocer, they don't know the ideas of retail science typically, but they do have the opportunity for these big manufacturers to purchase certain areas in your local grocery store. So they will purchase intentionally to make sure they'll pay the grocery store extra to make sure that they are positioned in a certain spot within the store. Same thing for end caps. Same thing for all of these other things. Now, the store does have its own influence, but the reality is, is that this is such a science of how it will influence you buying that you don't even know what's happening. But it's happening everywhere. I had one office come and tell me. It's really interesting. And one office doing a merchandising meeting. Well, you know, this just feels like we're taking advantage of the patients that, you know, maybe we're encouraging them to do something they don't want to do. Okay, you and the rest of the world. But because this is happening to you, when you go in to pay for, you know, you get gas and you go in to get a water, and then you walk out with three freaking KitKats. Why. Why'd you walk out with three Kit Kats? Because they have a two for one or buy one Kit Kat and you get three for free if you get a water like that. This is all influence.

[B]

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And the thing is, just because somebody understands how the brain works doesn't mean that it's necessarily like malfeasance to leverage that information. It's actually. You're actually trying to help the patient because is the patient better off if they didn't buy from you? No, of course not. If you actually believe in what you're doing, the patient is better off if they bought in your practice. And if they're super happy with what they bought, so help them buy what's in your practice. Now, I do have. There's one contradictory one I'm curious about your opinion on this is there was a study about jams and like, the number of jams that are in choice. Right. Like, and I. I love the jam studies. It is also because your groc grocery store example kind of spurred this for me, is that there's a study, I believe, and I'm trying to describe it for our audience. You might know the details better than I do, but there's a study where somebody has a choice to buy to. To taste as many jams as they want. Like 24 jams versus like six jams. And what we find is that this a paradox of choice where if you give people more options, they end up not buying because they're confused. And if you give people fewer options, then they're like, oh, yeah, like, I didn't need to try, like the walnut cranberry. Like, cranberry is just fine. Like, and I'm going to go buy that. And so I think the study was like, they. When they set up a jam display in a grocery store and they had lots of jams, people didn't Buy jams. When they had a smaller number of jams, people bought jams. And I'm curious.

[A]

Let me give you the details. The. The. Yeah. So in the jam study, it's basically a farmer's market that they set up. And one. One week or whatever, they have this lady's jams, and she has 30, 24, 30 different flavors, whatever it is. And then the next week, they set up the same jams, the same lady, but just with three jams. And then they do it like back and forth, right? They have all these different test markets. They have both of the displays actually at the same time in the same farmer's market. And the. The one with less was selling 30% more with less choice. So it doesn't matter necessarily the choice of what is there versus cranberry or walnut cranberry. But the real is, is that it's less confusing for people. So this is a retail science example that I give all the time. It is less confusing for the consumer to have less choices that rather than to be overwhelmed with choices. And so what's really beautiful about that is if I were to ask many of your listeners right now how many brands that they have in their office, most will be like, oh, you know, maybe 30, maybe 40. When the reality is is that so many opticals are displaying 65 plus brands in their optical. So this is the perfect example of the jam study where y' all need to figure out what you want to be offering. Because a lot of those brands that you're offering, you're offering it because the vision plan has encouraged it or because you like the rep. And so you brought on this other brand. And the reality is that you probably have three or four brands that are seriously hitting the exact same demographic. So all it's doing is causing confusion and not giving the opportunity for you guys to be specialized in, oh, this is what this brand will service this patient best, and this brand will service this patient best. So rather than having too many brands, we want to whittle that down to have the brands that. That cater to each of the demographics that you're hoping to appeal to. And that's how we utilize the retail science behind the jam study. Because the psychology of having less to choose from and being more specialized in the things that you offer, rather than just having this, I call it flea market vibes of all these different sinking brands that you randomly have, that is counterproductive. You're thinking that you're offering much more, but the reality is this is just causing confusion and you're probably overwhelming your.

[B]

Staff too, in thinking like, okay, well, which one do I show? Do I show them this one or do I show them this other one? And so they have less confidence as well.

[A]

Well, the reality is actually of all of the. Of all of the people who, who will vouch for having too many brands and too many offerings, it's often the staff, because they don't even realize the alternative. Right? They don't realize that actually parsing that down and becoming a specialist of each of these brands is way different than kind of being a, you know, jack of all trades. And what do they say? Jack of all trades and master of none kind of thing. I know it's not the full thing, but the idea is that when you can specialize in each of the brands and have that be your brand representation of what your optical is happy to showcase, that's a totally different conversation than, oh, well, there was that one double bar that needed the thicker sides, that needed this. And so that's why we carry this brand. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what we do. So that's a big opportunity when it comes to retail. Science is minimizing the confusion. And so that's one of the big things that we do as far as our metrics in monitoring in their by yearly assessments. We give out these written assessments every two years because we want to be whittling down the brands for most opticals, not all of them, but for most opticals, we want to be whittling down the brands that they came to us with when they started frame turn, because that's exactly it. The option of choice is something that can be specialized or it can be chaotic.

[B]

So, so what's the. If I had to nail this number down, I don't know if this is possible, but for an average optical, what are. What's the right number of frames? What's the right number of frame vendors, and what's the right number of brands?

[A]

Okay, so right number of frames. If I had. The reality is, is all of these are based upon the sales and the success of the optical. Okay? So giving you one number is not something that I like to do. But I can give you. Excuse me, I can give you what? A majority works really, really well for opticals. And that majority usually is around 700 pieces. Okay, 67750 usually is kind of like a little sweet spot for most opticals. That's not saying for everyone, because there are opticals that their sales have not basically generated that kind of investment yet. And so they should have less, and you can do it with less. When you get below 500, it is. It is kind of difficult. You have to have your team really on top of reordering. You have to have your team really on top of specializing. But there are some opticals that run at about 500 that it's crazy the amount of turn that they have. But they also have static frame boards and these other things too, that allow for them to be able to do that so they're not missing pieces up on their board all the time. So general number for quantity, I would say yeah, probably about 6, 700, maybe 750.

[B]

Okay, so how many vendors and how many brands?

[A]

Vendors, I don't care. Vendors. The thing is, is that I'm all about independent. So if I have, you know, 12 different brands, I'm going to have 12 different vendors. Right? So vendors, I don't care. And actually, some people get themselves in a pickle with trying to stay within the same vendor and just like playing this little red cup game of shuffling the ball around of what kind of other crappy brand am I going to have to choose from the same vendor? You guys don't have to stay with the same vendor for things. I know it might seem easier, but sometimes the easiest often will end up causing you more. More harm down. Down the way. So I'm not going to give a vendor number because that's a moot number to me. It doesn't matter. But as far as brands, if there was an ideal number of brands, and this is not just with independent brands, I want to put that out there. This is independent. This is really high. Let's just say by the industry monsters, this is, you know, our licensed brands, all of it, all of it included. Usually the sweet spot. Actually. Let me give an example first before I give the number. All right, let me give a little caveat to that. So we specify the difference between a sunglass and an ophthalmic. So we will list as two brands in our system, an Aetnea sunglass and an Aetnea ophthalmic. Right. If we have a Ray Ban ophthalmic and a Ray Ban sunglass, those are two different brands. So with that little caveat right there, understanding that the sunglass and the ophthalmics are listed as separately, and there's a whole retail science behind that, too. We'll talk about it. But having that listed out there, the number would be about 25. Understanding that, you know, about 6 of those are probably going to be sunglass. Brands. Cool. Yeah, yeah. So let's kind of kick back to sunglasses. Retail science. When it comes down to your sunglasses, it has been shown that when you can showcase something, the brand, any sort of brand, clothing, glasses, shoes, when you can showcase the entire brand, the brand has more ability to sell, or not necessarily the entire brand, but when you can showcase the different types of the brand to show it off and it has more ability to sell. There's this whole thing with under showcasing, that's what we've called it. Where, where you have so many brands in your office that you've got 6 of this one, 5 of this one, 8 of that one, and you sell about 6 of this one, 5 of THIS one, 8 of THAT one for the year because you have not given it the opportunity to sell. The darn thing doesn't sell. Right. And so we have come up with this idea of showcasing, of properly showcasing a brand in order to give it room to sell. Now, that being said, let's flip that over, that same concept over to just sunglasses. When I look at some optical sunglass boards, let's just say for pretend you have a sunglass area and in your sunglass area, you have 55, 0 sunglass frames up on your board. In many opticals, you will have about 10 to 11 different brands represented in those 50 sunglasses. Why? Because you'll go up to your juicy rep and you'll say, oh wait, let's bring in this juicy ophthalmic and just this juicy ophthalmic. Oh, well, those two sunglasses are cute. And then you go to your Nike rep and you go, oh, those five sunglasses are cute. And then you go to your Aetnea rep and you go, oh, those six sunglasses are cute because sunglasses are an afterthought. So then what we get is we get this hodgepodge of sunglass collection that we have up on the board. And the reality is we've tested this, we have tried it out. If you take those 50 frames of different sunglasses that are on your board that are made up of 10 or 11 different brands and you flip that and you bring on only four or five different brands that have 12 of 12, excuse me, frames to display for each of those brands, your sunglasses will sell better proven because with the same amount of inventory, you are now showcasing certain brands. So those brands will now sell better. We've proven it with our, our frame turn, people. Let's say we didn't. I think it was a 20. I'm going to mess up the year. Is it a 22 or 23 when I started to look at all of our under showcasing listings for, for successful offices that have been with us for a minute and I'm looking at them and I'm like, why are these sunglasses still under showcase? They're not selling. Let's try this experiment. Let's flip it from. Let's keep the same amount of inventory, but let's choose four brands, right? Choose a high end men, high end women. Choose a sportier men, sportier, more casual women's. As far as brands, let's try and display those and all of a sudden sunglass numbers come up. Now I would like to say that I had a consistent number on how that was influenced, but unfortunately the influence comes also from how we are portraying these in our optical. But the highest that we have seen is we saw an optical go from pretty much 00 sunglass sales to 27% in six months of their sales for sunglass sales.

[B]

So what did that do for their second pair?

[A]

So. Oh, I don't actually know that off the top of my head. I would have to look that up for that optical. But I will tell you that we have, we had a big training with them as well. So we changed that number and then we had a big training with them on how influencing sunglass sales from the moment they walk in, when they're back with that pretester or when, when they walk in the door and instead of sending them to the waiting area, you're going to take them out to show them your sunglass selection. All of this goes into play right in the influence. And so we did have this big influence training with them on how the team can be influencing them. And then we also had a big training with the doctors on recommending as they're prescribing from the chair, prescribing their, you know, single vision or progressive pair, their computer pair and then their sunglass pair. Because if we go about recommending three, then the, the optical has the opportunity to go, okay, so I've only got, I want to make sure we're really focused on are you really excited about the idea of getting that sunglass or are we more excited about the idea of having something for the computer? Because I want to be able to show you some different options. And again it's a yes, yes thing, right? Both are good options but it allows for the patient to go, okay, we're going to hone in on one of the things. And so their big thing was always trying to push the sunglasses. So to get that number from non existent to darn near 30. Are you kidding me right now? Like, that's awesome. Now, influence was happening in that optical in many different ways, but we hear it all the time from our offices and we can actually see it in their numbers that they are having an increase in what is happening just from having a good showcasing out in their optical with their merchandising.

[B]

Kayla, this is like an amazing masterclass on science and I feel like we could probably continue the conversation for another hour. I want to hit one topic that I think will be really relevant before we wrap up for today, which I think is pricing. So as I mentioned, the data shows us that, or I guess some interpretations of the data from 2025 is that consumers are more price sensitive. What do you think?

[A]

I think that I'm sure consumers are more price sensitive or price aware, but that just means that we need to do more on our part to more influence that pricing. Some of these changes that ended up happening in 2025 and, you know, are probably going to trickle into 2026 is we had increased costs on a lot of our eyewear, right. That was coming in. And so then we go about, we raise the, the, the markup that we have on that wholesale amount. We raise that markup because of course we're getting charged for. I'm all about that. We need to be making our money as well. The reality though is that for some of these offices, they look at some of these things and they go, okay, well, we're going to raise the price on all of these brands. That's the worst thing that you can possibly do in your optical is to take and go, okay, we're going to raise the markup on all of our brands because we want to be making more money. Don't do that. Don't do that. Many offices will go, hey, we need to be making more on our bottom line. We're going to go about increasing the markup. So worst thing that you can do because what it's doing is just taking all of your, let's just say 700 frames that you have at Near Optical and it's increasing the retail price of those frames. We're not going to do that. Not going to do it. The next thing is that some optical owners will go, okay, we're going to go about increasing the retail price of certain brands. We've got these brands that are doing really well. We're going to increase the retail price of those brands. Though better than the first option is still not the most ideal way to go. The reality is that we want to go about looking at increasing the A styles, increasing the pricing of A styles. So let's dive into A styles really quick. We have time, right?

[B]

Yes. Yeah. Define an ac.

[A]

So with A styles, A styles, is any. Are any of the styles that have been selling really well for each of your brands. And I would encourage you to find the top three A styles, every single one of your brands that you have out there. Okay, what you're going to do is once you find the top three A styles, you're going to do a few great things. The first thing you're going to do is you're going to go about increasing the representation of that frame on your board in multiple colors. So if you have 20 frames of this one brand out on your board, you are going to go multiple colors, deep in the top three performers. So that's going to now take up six spaces. So now you have 14 spaces for other unique, different styles. Right. Math adds up. Okay, so think about. This is goes back to retail science. When you walk into. Let's just say we're going to pick on Macy's all over again. Walk into Macy's and you go, oh, I really like this shirt. It's here in green. And then you turn around and go, oh, they have it in red. I love red. Red's my favorite color. This is great. There are a few different things that are happening in this. Number one is that your consumer, when they get the choice of making a decision of color, they are now more apt to purchase that product because they made that decision on color. Okay, pretty cool. Now some optical owners go, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Then why wouldn't I take all of my frames on the board and put them all out in multiple colors? Well, I'm gonna tell you because that's dumb. Because we're not going to do that. Because even Macy's, which has a bazillion dollars, doesn't do that. Because do they have every single shirt, every pair of pants, and every dress out there in multiple colors? No, they don't. They only have displayed in multiple colors the products that have been proven good sellers. Boom, There it is. Okay, so we identify ourselves, we take our top three from those, and we represent them in multiple colors. Now, what's really interesting is I will get pushback. I'll get emails after this from sales reps. Kayla, you don't know what you're talking about. They need to make sure that they have enough product out there with different styling to appeal to my patients. I get it. All the time. Okay. But you know what else I get? I get the satisfaction of seeing these opticals and seeing their numbers and seeing them go through the freaking roof. Your ace aisles will be selling like crazy.

[B]

So do I put both of them at eye level? The both colors that eye level?

[A]

Yes, sir. You do? Yes. Yes. We want to make sure it is there right underneath the eyeline. So much more than just eye level. Eyeline's next level, I'm telling you. That's how we level up. But yes, you want to have them there so that they have that choice right there in order to be able to choose, because they will be now more drawn to purchase that product because they get to choose color. And we don't just do this for random brands. Every office is very unique in the different A styles that they will have. And even the same office that is owned by the same owner and just the next town over will have completely different A styles. Not just because of the patient demographic, but because of who is there selling it. You'll notice that you'll lose a top optician and your A sales oil change. That's okay. But the reality is that you're monitoring it and that your A cells are. What's that are duplicated. So back to the A cells. So we want to take it. We want to give it out, the representation to multiple colors. The other great reason that we do this is because for some reason in the eye care industry, we can't get through our heads that if it ain't up there to sell, we can't sell it. So a lot of you will be like, oh, we're going to wait for the rep to come in. We're not going to reorder these A styles. And what ends up happening is if you've got it out there in one site, one. One option, you sell it. You can't sell it again until you get it back in there. And some of you are tripping over, you know, dollars to pick up pennies and saying, like, well, I don't want to pay the $8 in shipping. Okay, then don't sell that $300 free. Like, what are you doing? Yes. So A sales, get them up there in multiple colors. For those of you who do not have static frame boards, that is a good option. Because at least if you sell it in one color, at least it's still up there while this one's coming in right now. Last thing, back to the pricing. When it comes to adjusting your pricing, like we said, the worst thing you can do is Go about adjusting the whole thing, adjusting brands. The best thing that you could possibly do is increase the retail price of your A styles. Okay. This is really important. Your A styles are known, proven, good sellers. And if I'm looking at my inventory of, let's just say Aetnia Barcelona, right. Beautiful frames. And let's say the average price is like, I don't know, 330. And if there's a frame in there that I really like that's up there in multiple colors for 360. You think I'm gonna pay for it? Absolutely, I am. Right. Because I love it because it's a. A style and I've got it up there in multiple colors. Because we're tapping into the retail science. And so we're going to go ahead and have that $1 30 more. Here's our little staff pay. We love SATs. Eugene, you and I are all about SAP.

[B]

Yes, yes. Data, please.

[A]

Are you ready for this? Okay. Of all of our offices where we track our Asyles, because so basically we take our vi. We call them our vip is our offices that basically let me bug the crap out of them all the time and use them as testers. And so we took all of their Asyl across all of their brands. Okay. For all, we do it for 15 different offices. And, you know, some offices will have, I don't know, a total of 20 ASYL, and other offices will have like a total of 60 ASYL. Right.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's here. It's all over the board. But the reality is, is that for all of the offices that increase the retail price of their asal frames by $30, 92% either saw a consistency in sales or an increase in sales. 92%. That means only 8% saw a decrease in sales at that $30 or at the $30 jump.

[B]

And when you say sales, do you mean sales in units or sales.

[A]

Sales quantity? Yes.

[B]

So I sold more stuff at a higher price because I raised the price.

[A]

The same or more. Yes, at a higher price.

[B]

92% of the time. Wow. If that's not a reason to raise the price, I don't know what is.

[A]

Yes, but here's the thing. You go out raising the price of that whole brand, you're just shooting yourself in the damn foot. Be honest with you. Because the reality is, is taking the A styles, the known, proven good sellers in your optical, not what's up the street, not what's in your other location, in that location, take those on A styles, duplicate them, and increase the retail price. It is like the perfect, the perfect storm for just more profitability within the same amount of work.

[B]

I love it. That is fantastic. I think I'm going to let that be our final nugget of this, of this episode. Because that is, I mean, the data. The data is the data. 92% of people can sell more units by raising the price. That's like a serious double whammy. Same or more serious double whammy.

[A]

So now let me give a caveat. Hold on. Make sure you retail, you increase the price, but you also implement the other. We call them ASAL initiatives. The other ASAL initiatives is having it up there in multiple colors, making sure it's displayed properly. All of those things are always done in our little test unit. So make sure you're doing that too. And if you need help on it.

[B]

Yeah, of course. One more time, Kayla. We're going to post everything and we're going to post links so people can find you. But if people want more information from you or if they need, if they need help, how can they get a hold of you?

[A]

Best place is going to our website. It is Spexy S P E X Y co S P E X Y co. You will find all the information on there. You'll find a bunch of freebies, you will find a great opportunity to trial out, frame, turn, but more importantly, you'll see access to all of our memberships, which we make amazingly affordable. So you'll get a lot of value out of them.

[B]

So, yeah, and thank you so much for sharing everything that you had today. Hopefully this helps people kick off their year and kick off their optical with a bang. Kakayla, amazing having you as a guest in the Power Hour.

[A]

Thank you, Eugene. Have a great 2020.