Redefining Optical Sales: Mindset Shifts and Training Strategies, with Kayla Ashlee from Spexy

Summary

Power Hour Optometry Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Redefining Optical Sales: Mindset Shifts and Training Strategies
Host: Eugene Shotsman, The Power Practice
Guest: Kayla Ashley from Spexy
Release Date: May 7, 2025

In the 13th season of "Power Hour Optometry," host Eugene Shotsman welcomes Kayla Ashley from Spexy for an insightful discussion on transforming optical sales through mindset shifts and effective training strategies. The dialogue dives deep into the nuances of patient interactions, team communication, and maximizing revenue at every touchpoint within an optometric practice.

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1. The Impact of Unintentional Cues in Optical Sales

Kayla Ashley kicks off the conversation by addressing the biggest mistake optometric practices make: sending unintentional cues that discourage patients from making purchases. She explains how doctors' behavior in the exam room can inadvertently signal uncertainty or hesitation to patients.

[02:22] Kayla Ashley: "Biggest mistake would be unintentional signals that we are giving our patients to not purchase from us."

Unintentional signals include:

• Volume Fluctuations: Doctors lowering their volume when making multiple recommendations can make patients feel like they're being pressured to buy, raising doubts about the doctor's confidence.

• Unintentional Questions: Phrasing statements in a way that implies questions can lead patients to feel like they're being sold to rather than receiving professional advice.

Eugene Stonesman relates to these observations, noting how body language and tonality can reflect an apologetic tone, further undermining patient trust.

[04:22] Eugene Shotsman: "I think I know that you might be knowing that I'm thinking this particular thing. So all of a sudden, my body language and my tonality starts to reflect the apologetic tone."

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2. Strategies to Avoid Unintentional Cues

Kayla emphasizes maintaining consistent volume and intentionality during patient interactions to prevent misconceptions.

Maintaining Volume:

By keeping a steady volume while making prescribed recommendations, doctors can project confidence and reduce patient anxiety.

[04:55] Kayla Ashley: "Maintaining the same volume throughout your conversation and throughout the prescribed recommendations will allow for your patients to not get that kind of caveman, innate kind of spidey sense going off."

Reframing Questions:

Instead of yes-or-no questions that make patients feel forced to choose, Kayla advocates for assumed sales, where the practitioner assumes the patient will purchase and guides them accordingly.

[08:24] Eugene Shotsman: "What is the yes or yes that you recommend we start every optical interaction with?"

[08:44] Kayla Ashley: "Instead of saying, 'Do you want to look at glasses today?' assume they will purchase and guide them, e.g., 'Let’s take a look at your sunglasses first.'"

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3. The Ideal Handoff Process between Doctor and Optician

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the handoff from the doctor to the optician, a critical moment that can influence patient purchase decisions.

Introducing the Optician in the Exam Room:

Kayla suggests that the doctor should introduce the optician while still in the exam room to maintain a seamless connection and reinforce the importance of purchasing eyewear in-office.

[10:24] Kayla Ashley: "Introduce the optician into the exam room where the exam mentality is still in full throttle."

Using Internal Messaging Systems:

Modern practices benefit from inner office messaging systems like Slack, which ensure that opticians are promptly alerted and can respond efficiently, avoiding delays and maintaining patient engagement.

[18:12] Kayla Ashley: "Inner office messaging systems allow opticians to receive clear alerts, ensuring they're on their way back to the exam room without delay."

Validating the Optician’s Expertise:

During the handoff, doctors should validate the optician's expertise, reinforcing to the patient that they are in capable hands beyond the initial examination.

[18:53] Kayla Ashley: "Introduce the optician by highlighting their experience and expertise, e.g., 'Kayla has been with us for five years and excels at fitting progressive wearers.'"

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4. The Role of Front Desk and Techs in Sales

Beyond the doctor-optician interaction, Kayla highlights the crucial roles that front desk staff and technicians play in guiding patients towards making purchases.

Front Desk Engagement:

Front desk personnel should pre-program the patient’s mindset towards purchasing eyewear from the moment they enter the practice. Instead of passive instructions, they should:

• Highlight New Products: "I’m going to show you these new Frames from Aetnea Barcelona that we just received."

• Create Immediate Value: Ensuring patients feel their visit is purposeful and linked to quality products.

Technician Influence:

Technicians can plant subtle seeds during patient interactions by:

• Addressing Specific Needs: “Noticing you don’t have anti-reflective coatings, which could greatly help with your nighttime driving.”

• Validating the Doctor's Prescriptions: Reinforcing trust in the prescribed solutions.

[41:55] Kayla Ashley: "Validation from the tech with statements like, 'Doctor is going to dial in the most amazing prescription for you,' helps reassure patients."

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5. Enhancing Frame Selection: Curation vs. Shopping the Board

Kayla advocates for a curated approach to frame selection rather than leaving patients to "shop the board," which can be overwhelming and ineffective.

Curated Selection:

Opticians should actively guide patients by:

• Highlighting Features: "Notice the detailing on this frame and how it accentuates your cheekbones."

• Merging Expertise with Selection: Offering frames that complement the patient's facial features and personal style.

[27:46] Kayla Ashley: "Create a boutique feel by curating frames and guiding patients through detailed features, enhancing their selection process."

Avoiding Overwhelming Choices:

Instead of presenting all available frames, which can lead to decision fatigue, a curated approach can increase inventory turnover and sales through higher sell-through rates.

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6. Increasing Multiple Pair Sales

One of the pivotal strategies discussed is boosting multiple pair sales, which significantly impacts revenue.

Recognizing the Need for Multiple Pairs:

Kayla emphasizes that practices often neglect to offer multiple pairs, missing out on additional sales opportunities.

[56:17] Kayla Ashley: "Opticals near and far are making this mistake of not having the constant awareness of multiple pair sales."

Implementing Multiple Pair Strategies:

Practices can increase sales by:

• Introducing Complementary Products: "While you're trying on these progressives, take a look at our matching sunglasses."

• Creating Discounts: "We're offering a multiple pair discount if you decide to purchase a second pair today."

Resulting Benefits:

By adopting these strategies, some practices have reported:

• Doubling of Multiple Pair Sales: One office saw their multiple pair sales doubled month-over-month for six months.

• Increased Capture Rates: Another reported a 15% capture rate increase by incorporating multiple pair sales despite selling to fewer patients.

[58:02] Kayla Ashley: "One office told me their multiple pair sales doubled month over month for six months."

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7. Closing Thoughts on Sales in Optometry

Concluding the episode, Kayla addresses common misconceptions about sales in the optometric industry, advocating for a mindset shift.

Redefining Sales:

Sales should not be seen as a transactional or "dirty" aspect but as a means to enhance patient well-being through quality eyewear.

[33:59] Kayla Ashley: "I'm not just selling a pair of glasses; I'm offering better vision and increased confidence."

Emphasizing Expertise Over Transaction:

By leveraging expertise, opticians can differentiate their practices from online retailers and big-box stores, ensuring patients recognize the value of purchasing in-office.

[30:37] Kayla Ashley: "Educating your patient allows them to see your expertise, making them less likely to choose online alternatives."

The Value of Connection:

Building a human connection through verbal and non-verbal cues fosters trust, leading to higher patient satisfaction and loyalty.

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Key Takeaways

• Consistent Communication: Maintain steady volume and avoid unintentional questions to project confidence.

• Effective Handoff: Seamlessly introduce opticians within the exam room to reinforce credibility and expertise.

• Team Involvement: Engage front desk and technicians in guiding patients towards purchases through intentional messaging.

• Curated Frame Selection: Guide patients with expert knowledge to enhance their frame selection experience.

• Maximize Sales Opportunities: Implement strategies for multiple pair sales to significantly boost revenue.

• Redefine Sales Mindset: View sales as a means to improve patient well-being rather than a mere transaction.

Kayla Ashley's insights offer a comprehensive roadmap for optometric practices aiming to enhance their sales processes, foster stronger patient relationships, and ultimately increase revenue through thoughtful, patient-centered strategies.

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Connect with Kayla Ashley:
Learn more about Kayla's strategies and Spexy's solutions by visiting www.PowerPractice.com or reaching out directly via email.

Transcript

[Kayla Ashley]

Foreign.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Welcome to the powerhouse Optometry's biggest and longest running show, now in its 13th season. I'm your host, Eugene Shotsman, and we've got a packed episode today with a great guest whose energy and expertise are just infectious. So my guest today is Kayla Ashley from Specsy. And the episode is all about your optical. And Kayla is here to give you a masterclass on what's working and also what's not working when it comes to handoffs, sales, team communication, and really just capturing revenue in every point in your practice. So we talk about this concept of unintentional cues that I really liked. And this unintentional cues concept is something that your team may be giving off. And even sometimes the doctors basically instruct patients not to buy from you. And Kayla talks about those unintentional cues and also how to fix them. We also break down how to properly front a patient. If you don't know what that is, listen to the episode. And also how to do the handoff the right way, in Kayla's opinion. And also how every member of the team, from the front desk to the tech to the doctor, the optician, what role they play in whether the patient walks or whether they buy. Talk about language, gestures, sales, psychology, strategy. If you've ever struggled with my favorite subject exam onlys or felt like your optical was underperforming, the episode is definitely going to give you a ton to think about and even more to implement. So before we jump in, quick reminder, make sure that you're subscribed on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode. YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your shows. And of course, I love hearing from you. You can reach out to me anytime@eugene shotsman.com or at the Power Hour website. Whether it's feedback, ideas, questions, I'm always happy to hear from our listeners. Again, that's Eugene Shotsman.com and now let's go to today's show. All right, Kayla, welcome to the Power Hour. Excited to have you on the show.

[Kayla Ashley]

Eugene, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Eugene Shotsman]

All right, so I think I just want to start with the easiest way for I know there's lots of different directions we can go for you to add value to practices. I'm going to start with the easiest that I think of when I think about a practice is optical process or sales process in general. This is all your area of expertise. What is the best biggest mistake that most practices make?

[Kayla Ashley]

Great question. Biggest mistake would be unintentional Signals that we are giving our patients to not purchase from us.

[Eugene Shotsman]

You're going to have to explain this. This is great. All right.

[Kayla Ashley]

Perfect place to start.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Unintentional signals.

[Kayla Ashley]

Unintentional signals that we're giving our patients in the exam room. I'll give you an exam room example and an optician kind of optical example. Exam room example. When doctors will display verbiage that is not showing confidence, it's actually raising kind of the spidey senses off on your patients to tell them, hey, do they know what they're talking about? Or should I be confident in what they're doing? And two ways that we do this in the exam room is typically it's called a, you know, lack of maintaining volume. So, for example, when we're making our prescribed recommendations, a doctor might go, hey, patient, I'm recommending for you, or today I'm prescribing for you a set of progressives. This will help with your distance intermediate and reading. And they might start that at, let's just say, a volume of six. And then they go. And then when we get to our. And I'm also prescribing for you a set of computer lenses. And with those computer lenses, it's going to help you while you're at work. And I'm also prescribing for you a set of sunglasses. So they take their volume from a level six as they keep going, dropping it down to like a level five and a level four. And what happened? The reason we do this is because when we're talking to our patients, a lot of us have kind of. Let's just be honest, in optometry, we're never trained on how to properly sell. And so what happens is we are talking to our patients, and, you know, we get the patients that go, hey, are you trying to sell me something? Or. Or it feels like you're trying to sell me something. And so what we do is we get nervous as we start making our prescribed recommendations. So, like, the further we get into the multiple pairs, we're like, don't freak out. And so we unintentionally will drop our volume.

[Eugene Shotsman]

And it's like nervous or apologetic or unintentionally like, well, like, I. I don't know if the patient is asking me if I'm trying to sell them something, but I'm wondering if that's what they're thinking, because that's what I'm thinking is that I'm actually trying to tell them something. So then all of a sudden, it's The. I think I know that you might be knowing that I'm thinking this particular thing. So all of a sudden, my body language and my. And my tonality starts to reflect the apologetic tone. And I've. I've seen this and I've heard this firsthand as well, so I totally relate. So keep going. This is great.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yeah. So. So as far as the doctor making the prescribed recommendations, just being mindful enough to make sure that you're maintaining the same volume throughout your conversation and throughout the prescribed recommendations will allow for your patients to not get that kind of caveman, innate kind of spidey sense going off, going, hey, why are they doubting themselves? You know, the other thing from the exam room as well is asking unintentional questions. Unintentional. Right there. I just did unintentional questions. See how I raised it up like that? So we do this a lot. We'll say, instead of saying, hello, my name is Kayla, I'll go, hello, my name is Kayla. Like, I'm not asking a question, but my inflection is implying a question. And doctors will do this a lot. And opticians actually do this a lot as well. It's not the number one thing, but one of the number one things that doctors do in their prescribed recommendations is unintentional questions. And it sounds like this, like, okay, patient, today I'm prescribing for you a set of progressives. With these progressives, they're going to help with your distance intermediate and reading. I'm also prescribing for you a set of computer lenses. These computer lenses are going so you can see where it kind of comes up like that. Now, the alternative, which you don't think is that. You don't think it's that impactful, but the alternative. Listen to how it sounds. So we want to make sure and intentionally. And men and women doctors do this where if you intentionally bring it down at the end, it sounds so much more powerful. So listen to this. Okay, today I'm prescribing for you a set of progressives. With these progressives, they're going to help you with your distance intermediate and reading. I'm also prescribing for you a set of computer lenses. See how much more powerful and confident that sounds. Yeah, it's really, really impactful. So with one of the biggest things is unintentionally sending the wrong cues. I'll give you a few examples later on if you want, but that's one big one in the exam room is making sure to maintain volume Also to maintain our constant intentionality with not asking unintentional questions, making sure our inflection stays the same. In the optician area realm. The unintentional cues that we are giving our patients is when we ask the patients if they would like to look for glasses or do you want to look at glasses? That's like when I ask my kid, hey, you know, hey, Connor, do you want peas or carrot or do you want vegetables with dinner tonight? He's going to say, like, no, I don't want vegetables. Right. But if you give them alternatives, do you want to look at PE or should we order peas or carrots with dinner tonight? They're going to choose one, right? Same thing with your patients. When you say, patient, do you want to look at glasses today? What you're asking, the patient hears is basically, hey, do I want to spend $1,000 in your optical today? No. No, I don't actually. Nope, don't want to do that. That's what they hear. And so better opportunities are to move the conversation from asking a question as far as a yes or no question and assuming that the patient is purchasing eyewear because the doctor just prescribed eyewear back in the exam. Assuming the patient is purchasing eyewear and controlling the conversation in that direction. So back to the original question. What are the biggest mistakes? That would be it. Unintentional cues that we're giving our patients. We can dive into more of that.

[Eugene Shotsman]

I love this concept of unintentional cues, but I actually want to hear from you the resolution to that last one. So.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yeah.

[Eugene Shotsman]

What is the yes or yes? I call them yes or yes questions. I'm sure you have a much more technical name for them, but, um, for me, it's the, you know, the peas or carrots is a, you know, would you like peas or carrots? Because it's a yes or yes to vegetables. Right. So what's the yes or yes that you recommend we start every optical interaction with?

[Kayla Ashley]

Well, if. If we are getting to yes or yes questions. Good alternatives. There is a better alternative than just a yes or no question. Goes a lot deeper. But if we are doing yes or yes questions, alternatives are. Okay. Patient, I see that you're wearing a beautiful metal frame. Did we want to look for something similar or something a little different? Are we looking at getting a set of. Sorry, backing up. Are we? Doctor has prescribed for you, you know, a set of computer glasses, progressives, and sunglasses. I think we should go ahead and take a look at the sunglasses first. Let me show you what we have going on over here. So you're already making the assumption. You're not making a yes or no question. Got it. So you are reiterating the prescribed recommendation. That one's rather quick. We like to go into it a little bit deeper. But you're reiterating that, and then you're kind of making a decision for them. Or if they're like, well, actually, I would rather look at the progressives. Maybe they are only getting one pair. But you've now had them commit to, you know, getting their regular pair first. So it's a good alternative.

[Eugene Shotsman]

This is great. Phenomenal. Okay, so now instead of a yes or yes question, I'm going back to. I'm. Let's let you lead. You're the expert, so you're. We're going back and saying, okay, so we're basically doing the assumed sale. So do it again and give me. Give me the deeper of, like, what. What would you do? So I'm. The doctor comes out, actually. Describe your ideal handoff to me. Doctor comes out, oh, it's so deep.

[Kayla Ashley]

I love it.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Let's go. Let's. Let's jump in. Because I. I think this is where so many practices really struggle. And for whatever reason, and we could talk about so many reasons, but I still want to go. Ideal handoff.

[Kayla Ashley]

Ideal handoff is actually not the doctor coming out of the exam room. That would be the most ideal.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Let's start there.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yes.

[Eugene Shotsman]

All the assumptions out of the water. That's right.

[Kayla Ashley]

Is the optician actually going back to the exam room to actually pick up the patient? What happens is once the patient crosses. It's really weird. Once they cross that little threshold from the exam room into the hallway that's going into the optical, they immediately are like, yeah, sales. Yeah. Like, they start. The wall starts coming up. Right. So the best thing is to introduce the optician into the exam room where the exam mentality is still. Is still in full throttle. And so what happens is the optician coming back into the exam room. The doctor has already given the prescribed recommendations to the patient directly. Now, when the optician walks back into the exam room, the idea is that the doctor introduces the optician to the patient, and then the doctor goes about making the prescribed recommendations to the optician, repeating the same thing that they just said, because it's reiterating that same message to the patient. And then at that time, the doctor, of course, leaves the room. And then it's very important, if we're talking cues, I have to give you a backstory. Eventually on where I'm getting all this from. But the unintentional cues that we often give patients is we will go, okay, patient, go ahead and follow me. Or same thing. When we get up to the optical, the doctor is doing the handoff in the optical is that the patient has had time to basically disconnect from that exam. Right. From going from basically patient to consumer. Right. And so if we can facilitate that conversation starting back in the exam room, it's much more powerful. So what happens is we want to instruct the patient both with verbal and nonverbal cues. You know, we want to use our hand gestures to go about instructing the patient to go ahead and follow us out to the optical. And then we want to wait for the patient. We actually don't want to leave the space. We want them to always stay in contact with us because it'll increase the human basically energy connection. Some people think it sounds a little woo woo, but it's real if you focus on it. There's a human connection that happens as long as we stay stay within about a 6 to 10 foot radius of a person, so, or distance from person. So we're going to go about waiting for the patients and we're going to encourage them to walk down the hallway. As we start walking down the hallway, the idea is to. Because we've already heard the prescribed recommendation, the idea is to keep the conversation going about the exam. We don't want to ask lame questions because lame questions get lame answers. So Mary, how are you doing today? Oh, I'm having a good day. Like nobody cares.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Stop it.

[Kayla Ashley]

We're not talking about that. Let's make it intentional so we can say, okay, Mary, doctor was really excited about the prescriptions that he was able to get. You go ahead and tell me how clear was it when he was able to flip those lenses and you were able to see the clarity? Was that really great? Remind them about the exam. Remind them about what they were able to experience. Because for some reason, when they cross that threshold, not only do they go into sales mode, but they also get like stinking amnesia about how great they were able to see through the phoropter.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Right.

[Kayla Ashley]

So it allows for you to maintain this conversation and this awareness for the patient of, oh gosh, I was really able to see really great. Right. And so then as we take them out into the optical, the conversation then continues to. Okay, so with doctors prescribed recommendations that he just made for you, it looks like we have. I made notes because you want to be taking notes. It is A verb is a non verbal cue to show that you're paying attention and that you're listening. And the intentionality of it is very important because then you can refer back to it. Okay, so Dr. Has recommended for you your progressives and then a computer pair and then a pair for outside. So this is going to be really great. Let's go ahead and take a look at some of these, these glasses over here. We brought in this new brand. So basically there are a whole bunch of different areas we can go to as far as the. The recommendations for alternatives for the. What you know, we call the yes and yes. But the most powerful is not really to give an option. It's to get excited about something. So, so, you know, we brought in these new lafont frames. Let's go ahead and take a look at some of these lafont frames. I think they would be absolutely beautiful on you. And they've got sunglasses over there too. So it's really important to maintain that conversation as far as making sure you are reiterating what the doctor had said, not asking, do we want to look at glasses? Because the assumption is that we do want them to look at glasses. We don't want to start with insurance. Ever, ever, ever. Don't ever start with insurance. Oh, because your insurance is going to contribute $120. Stop it. Stop. If the patient is concerned about their insurance, they will bring it up to you. In which scenario, if they do bring it up to you, you need to not just answer their question about it, but you also need to direct the question away from pricing because what they're asking is pricing. And I feel like I keep talking, but I'll keep going until you stop me.

[Eugene Shotsman]

I keep going with that point because I'm diligently. This is great. Keep going.

[Kayla Ashley]

Oh, good. Okay. So when it comes to pricing, people ask, as humans, if we are uncertain about a topic or some sort of area that we're not experts in, we always default to price because price is something we know. We know the value of currency. Right? So if you take me down to get an oil change, if I have to take my car down to get an oil change, my husband should have told me what I'm getting because I have no idea. And so they're going to give me a good, better and best. And I'm probably going to go with the media one because I don't want to get bamboozled and I have a nice car, so I don't want to put cheap stuff in it. Right. So that's kind of where it is. So that's where people will focus on money and eye care, because they don't know the ins and outs of eye care. So they focus on what they do know, which is currency. And they don't want to get bamboozled by you, but they also don't want to have the crappiest set around. So they think that their insurance is going to give them the best solution. So the result of that, to finish up that point, is to say, you know, your patient will ultimately say, well, you know, I just want all my insurance covers. Okay, well, it looks like your insurance is going to contribute $120 towards a frame. And so let's go about taking a look at a few different frames. So that' where you're going to answer the question with the money thing. But then you're going to. Not if you just say it's going to contribute 120, what are they going to do? They're going to go out there and they're just going to look at, well, where's the $120 thing? Right. But the alternative is to also. To answer that question, but then also follow it up with a plan. And the plan would look like this. So your insurance is going to contribute $120 towards your frame. And so this is where my expertise comes in, Mary, because let's go about taking a look at a few different styles that you really like. And then once we find some styles that you like, it's my responsibility to go about pulling a few different price ranges of similar styles so that you can, you know, make the best decision for you. Right. So you are putting the expertise back on you to allow for your patient to go, oh, okay, they have my best interest in mind. But the reality is, is that when they usually try on better frames and once they have them on their face, money's not an issue anymore. Their allowance, at least, isn't an issue anymore.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Right. I love this, and I think you're totally on a roll. I'm going to take you back straight to the handoff. The optician walks in the room. So however the signaling happens, right? Like, there's obviously different ways that you could potentially signal. And I actually want to hear you tell me what some of the best signals are to get that optician back there so that the doctor isn't like wasting 10 minutes killing time, hoping that the optician's going to show up.

[Kayla Ashley]

Oh, yeah, no, definitely not.

[Eugene Shotsman]

But that's, you know, so that's one. Number two is Then I want to hear you tell what's the, what's the best way for the optician to get introduced so that you can pass? Because I recognize that it's so important for the doctor to pass. Credibility from the medical part, I'm hearing you tell me that you know, as you're, as you're walking down the hall, you're reinforcing the, the things that happen in the exam, the benefits of the exam. So it sounds to me like the doctor needs to pass their credibility as a medical professional to the optician who is going to continue that credibility as a medical slash fashion stylist professional and add a layer of expertise to that. So tell me maybe those, those two things first.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yes. Beautiful. So correct. You don't want to just be waiting in the exam room for somebody to show up. That's a disaster waiting to happen. I mean clear back in, you know, the, the 2010, I remember being in practices where we had little pager systems. You'd go like beep and it would beep up in the optical and then an optician would come back. Now today some of that offices use are some sort of inner office messaging system, something like Slack or something like that where they can just write a message that says like room one or just one. So they know the room to go to and it'll go to all of the opticians computers at one time. So then you know, they can, someone can claim it and then head back there. And it's really great actually with the inner office messaging system because you know, when somebody got it so they're not, you know, like in the old pager systems you're like, I hope they heard it, hope they heard it. So the inner office ones, they can actually send an alert that says, you know, a thumbs up or something so that a doctor knows they're on their way back there. So that's the most beneficial way because we all have computers now. So that being said, you are 100% right where when the doctor does the handoff to the optician, giving the opticians a sense of validation and also to also to create awareness of the optician's expertise is very important. And so many doctors historically have been really focused on I'm the doctor, I know how to do everything, everything, everything. The most successful practices. Because let's be honest, a lot of doctors do not know anymore because it's been a long time how to use manual enzober, right? Or you know, even how to calculate decentration or how to do any of these things that opticians really are doing on the daily basis. And so something that's really great is to offer validation from the doctor to the optician during the handoff. So when the patient, or I'm sorry, when the optician walks into the exam room and you're introducing the patient saying, hey, patient, this is my optician, Kayla. Kayla has been with us for, you know, five years now and she's super fabulous. She's been doing this forever. And I'll tell you, when it comes to the lenses, I write the prescriptions, she makes these amazing lenses and together as a team, we are able to make our patients so happy. So some sort of validation. That way if the patient has concern about, you know, it's their first time progressive wear, make sure and validate in that direction. Kayla is really fabulous with being able to, to fit and have great success with first time progressive wears. So not only will she be able to fit you in the right frames and have the proper lenses, but it also, she also has the, this amazing skill to be able to teach you and give proper expectation so you have the best success. What's really beautiful about doing this in your handoff is that you are often validating more of the benefits your patient staying in your practice. Because if you just say, okay, patient, here's your prescription, sayonara. What that does is the patient goes, oh, okay, glasses are glasses, right? And what do I need an optician for where if you give that validation to the optician there, the idea is that it helps to eliminate the patient or it helps the patient to see value in staying in your office rather than going to online. The idea with, oh, is it going to be the same, gosh, I shouldn't get my first time progressives online. It's, you know, this could be a difficult thing. So, you know, validating that importance of having the optician there is very important. So great question.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yeah. And I think, I like to think of it to, to your point about price, I like to think of it as the buying criteria. Right. And the buying criteria for a patient, it is our job to set that buying criteria up front. And the buying criteria is that this is that you need a consultation with this thing. This isn't a price dependent or this isn't, you shouldn't make the decision based off of price as the sole buying criteria. It's price plus expertise or price plus technology plus expertise or price plus selection, price plus expertise, whatever that buying criteria is that helps your office be better than the competition. That's, you know, whatever makes you Guys special in your office, that should be the opportunity for the buying criteria. And that's one of the reasons I asked the question about the handoff is because you're absolutely right. Like, that's such a prime opportunity to reestablish the buying criteria. So if you've got. Whether it's technology or whether it's a selection, you know, Kayla, Kayla curates. Our Kayla is the one who helps select all the thousand plus frames that we have in the office. And she's the one. I know you talked to me about how much you like the way that you look now. And she's the one who's going to get that particular pop that you're looking for for your daughter's wedding that you mentioned to me in the, in the exam room. Like, that's the.

[Kayla Ashley]

You know, Eugene, you're doing such a good job.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Sorry, I'm getting excited about the topic. I love.

[Kayla Ashley]

This is perfect. So I talk about this in my trainings as well. That's mirroring, because you want to mirror what your patient says. And when they talk to you about their, you know, their daughter's wedding or them not being able to see at night when they're driving over White Hawk Pass or something like that, you want to use those exact words. You want to parrot those words back to them in your validation because it helps for them to go, wow. It creates that connection and it helps for them to see. They, they subconsciously, they get. People are impressed because you were listening when you can. When you can mirror that back to them. So, Eugene, bravo.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Oh, thanks. I'm ready to go into the optical. I'm getting hook. Okay. So I want to talk a little bit about. And I. And I think you. You started going down the path of price. But, you know, I oftentimes hear this whole thing of curate versus shop the board together with the patient versus, you know, the patient is sitting at the table and you go pick off the board and you know, some practices delivered on a velvet tray with a white glove. Like, what is the. You know. Now, like, I'm deep in the optical. What. What's the best process? Or, you know. And how do you. How do you know?

[Kayla Ashley]

Great question. So I want to make sure I understand the question. So we're talking about basically having the patient sit down and being able to curate frames versus shopping the board. Is that kind of the reference?

[Eugene Shotsman]

Exactly. And then maybe there's a. I mean, maybe it's not a one versus two. Maybe there's just a process that. Look, what I've seen with, with some practices is. Okay, so the men's frames are over there. Go, you know, go over there like, you know, and let me know if you have any questions. Right. Like, I imagine that's a no, no. Right. Like you would say, stop it. And then, and then there's the other side, which is the. Okay, you sit here, Eugene, and I, you know, I'm going to use my expertise to go collect frames off the board and bring them to you. Or maybe I've pre selected something, I don't know. Like, you tell me the models that work in offices.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yes, yes. Beautiful. So in a majority of offices, they don't have the, I'm going to say, confidence or awareness of curating and doing kind of the concierge style of. I've chosen these frames for you. The practices that do have this basic understanding of curating have much higher turn rates as far as their inventory turnover. Sales through rates or sell through rates. Sorry. That when they are able to do something like that, to be able to curate more of kind of offering that boutique kind of feel. The reality is that a vast majority of offices still have, you know, the frame displays and have their patients shopping around. Now, there are very, like, you gave the example very wrong ways to go about doing this, like letting them free. Here's men's, here's women's. Don't do that. That is the worst that you actually. There's actually worse, but that's bad. The best things that you can do is to offer things like telling the patients, okay, you know what? I love this frame that you're wearing. It kind of reminds me of this frame over here with a little, you know, updated look. So let's take a look at, you know, these Lafont frames over here. Or just giving them some direction is very, very powerful. Allowing your patient to just shop is quite ridiculous because to a, to a Layman, we've got 700 frames on a board or even on shelves. They all look the same. To a layman, they need our expertise to go up there and be able to go, okay, so notice the detailing on this frame. Notice how the angle when it fits you, how it highlights your cheekbones. To create this awareness is pivotal in being able to have an optical that sells properly.

[Eugene Shotsman]

I totally agree. I think that there's a level of expertise that is always understated with opticians. And I totally agree with you because. And I've done this in secret shops that I've gone on. It's like it's sometimes pulling teeth to get that expertise out of the optician because they know what looks good, but they don't want to tell you for some reason, and they don't. And I think what you just said, like, the whole cheekbones thing, like, let's go a little bit deeper into this because I think there's a, there are ways that you can explain the difference between frames. And this is where, like, I think it's so pivotal to really, to, to really recognize the point of when a, when a patient has the selection, you have to pair the fact that there's a selection and then there's expertise that can be applied to that selection. Otherwise, why are they in your office? Why shouldn't they just go to Zenny? Right? Like, why, why shouldn't they just go, go and find the cheapest frame and literally use their money as their, as their selection criteria. But no, let's, let's use the expertise. So how, how else can we apply that expertise as opticians? What, what can opticians say during the sale? And really, again, like, when you're talking about facial features or features of frames, like, let's talk about some of the things they should be highlighting during the sale.

[Kayla Ashley]

Right? So, so definitely being able to highlight here, here's the thing. Being able to highlight features of a frame is important, but being able to also, like you're saying, validate your expertise is also important with being able to tell patients that something looks bad without saying it looks bad. So to show a patient and they put on a frame and like, oh, I kind of like these go. Okay, I like. Tell me what you like about that. I'm going to grab a few other styles over here. So let's pretend that the, the bridge is much too narrow. Right. And so they're perched upon their face and it's not properly, you know, fitting as far as the overall. Excuse me, fit should be. So what we're going to look at is tell the patient. Okay, so see on these frames, let's go ahead and grab this one. Show me what you like about this one. And they might go, I don't love the color on this one. Now is your opportunity if it does actually fit their bridge. Right. Okay. Because they're just looking at color, which is great. Now is when you bring up to the patient. Okay, patient. So when you look at this frame that you're wearing right here on the bridge, notice how it has a really nice fit all the way across the bridge. Let's go ahead and put the other one on again. Now this one, though, it looks really cool. Super rad on you. Not gonna lie. It's real great. Notice how it's only hitting right here. It's actually not hitting up here. What that's gonna do is it's gonna cause constant pressure right here on your nose. So, though I love this one, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't tell you that it might not be the most comfortable for you overall. So maybe let's look at a few other opportunities. What are your thoughts on that? So being able to explain that to them, they're gonna go, oh, my God, I can't ever pick out glasses without Kayla here, because she tells me when they fit. Right.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Exactly.

[Kayla Ashley]

And same thing when it comes to, you know, a really high prescription and a drill mount, you're setting that proper expectation or telling, you know, educating the patient on when they. And I hate the overusage of the word. I educate my patients. I don't sell. You need to sell. You need to sell, and it's a thing. But also educating your patient in the. In the reality of lenses where, you know, we're kind of coming back down in the big styles. But when style. When frame styles were really, really big, what that does is no matter the prescription, it makes the lens blank have to be bigger as well, which therefore makes the lens thickness bigger. Whether it be center or on the edge, it does make the lens thickness bigger. And so to be able to explain to the patient, those are really great on you. However, they might be a little bit too wide. And the reason I bring that up is because it's going to make your lens heavy, and to be able to go into that in more detail, they appreciate that because it breaks my heart when I see opticians who are, you know, working with their patient have sold a pair of glasses, and they're way too big. And, you know, they're. They're not, you know, properly centered, and they're misfits. And so the frames are sliding like crazy. And even when you crank down on the temples, they still don't fit because it's misfit up front. You know, it's. There's such a. A cascading issue. Reality of issues that because we haven't utilized our expertise in our industry, have allowed for this. Well, why don't I just get them online? And if you are fitting glasses like that, why don't they just get them online? Like you need to be showcasing your expertise to allow for yourself to be set apart.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yeah. And I think, you know, you. You brought it up is the feature set. And I'm just going to try to summarize. There's the feature set of a particular set of frames. There's the fashion component, which I think is like a. You know, we didn't explore this, but, you know, if you have a round face, you may have these types of frames that fit. You may have a, you know, whatever, a square face. I don't know what are the faces. Right. And these might be better. But. But if you tell the patient that. So there's a. There's this fashion component, and then you're absolutely right. And the third is the fit. And if you can try to think about, like, feature fashion fit as, like those three. I'm a marketer, right. I can't help myself. So those. Those three areas, if you think about that as the. Okay. And I have to throw in an education point every time I talk to a patient about this so that they see my expertise. If they see my expertise, then in that particular case, they can't. Like you said, they then can't pick out glasses without Kayla at their side in the future. And they're not going to Zenny. And if they. And. And all of a sudden they see the value of coming back to this office and not going to Costco or whatever. Right, that's right.

[Kayla Ashley]

That's right.

[Eugene Shotsman]

So I think that this is such a. Such an important, pivotal component of the role of an optician. And we're not just. And I think about this, like, a lot of people approach the job as transactional. And I want you to, before the break here, tell me, you mentioned the word sales. What does sales mean to you? Because I think a lot of people misunderstand. They think sales is like some sort of dirty word and some sort of, like a less than dignified profession. And we're trying to do something bad for patients if we're trying to sell them stuff, like, help dispel that a little bit.

[Kayla Ashley]

Well, here's the funny thing. When it comes to this idea of sales, we get a bad taste in our mouth, like I mentioned before, because we're never properly taught how to sell. That's where I come in. But we're never properly taught how to sell. And so we kind of do this fake it till we make it kind of thing. And we never really make it. We just find ways to finagle around it and avoid it is really what ends up happening. So I believe we're in an industry where we're able to sell something. I'm not selling a $1200 purse that they're going to wear once every date night, once every six months, like that's insane. But to be able to sell them a $1200 pair of glasses that not only are, you know, they wearing, but they're wearing on their face, that's going to make them feel amazing. It's going to make them have the, you know, highest level of confidence and they're going to be able to see the world a whole lot better. Heck yeah. That is what I get to sell our patients. And so to be able to have the mentality of I'm not just selling a bag that's going to be sitting under a table most of the time or sitting under the seat of my car, I'm selling a pair of glasses that's on their face. And so the importance as an optician, we can often recall all of the really great experiences. Right. When we fit that little kid in their first pair of glasses and they've talked about the leaves on the trees or when we have, you know, the, the patient who, you know, you see them light up as soon as they put their glasses on, we need to understand that that creates such a high level of confidence that helps with someone's overall psyche and overall self worth that is hugely valuable. And so to be able to offer these types of sales that not only, yes, they're making, you know, it's, it's, you know, a medical device. Okay. But you know, where, where it is being able to offer better vision for them. Absolutely. But you know, being able to have that lens with anti reflective treatment that's going to make sure that they can be seen in their, in their pictures is hugely powerful. And then on top of that, have a frame that fits so great that they have the, you know, highest level of confidence is something that's amazingly satisfying. So if you approach it like a transactional deal, you're going to be a mid optician. And unfortunately there are a lot of mid opticians out there, but there are a lot of exceptional opticians out there as well that take it for the opportunity of being able to really change the outcome and the outlook, I guess, of this person about themselves in their life. So it really helps to raise confidence when you are actually able to properly put together a type of sales transaction that is actually going to be benefiting the patient in all these different ways.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Love it. So well said, Kayla. I think the next part I want to tackle in our conversation is this principle of exam only. Let's start there because I think our industry, I'VE covered this a lot on the show this year so far is our industry is struggling with exam only type of transactions. Right. I think you call them walkouts, but it's the same thing. You know, somebody shows up and they think whether they're going to get glasses or they don't or the prescription hasn't changed enough or they're going to get glasses online, whatever it is. And I know we've covered elements of this, but I just want to zoom in more on what else can I do to keep the patient in my optical and to get the patient to buy from me versus walking out the door.

[Kayla Ashley]

So the biggest opportunity is to start that validation of the necessity of buying glasses in your office and getting them used to the idea of buying glasses in your office from the moment they walk in the door. This is huge. So let me give you a little backstory. January of 24, we do what are called immersion events where practices will have me fly to their office. We do like a one day training event and then we kind of do implementation of all the stuff that we learned. And it's all based on the initiative of leadership. Right. Leaders, like typically it's let's increase the capture rate, let's increase our sales is usually what it is. So I had gone into one of these practices and this practice was a longtime member of ours. And what was really interesting is that they were, they were repeating the verbiage that I told them to repeat in a very nice way. They were doing what they were supposed to be doing, essentially. But their lack of charisma and energy, it wasn't there, to be honest. When it comes to working with the patient, they were saying the right things, but they had zero connection with their patients. And this went from, you know, the doctor also. The doctor was the most spirited of all of them. But the doctor, the opticians, the techs and the front desk. And so I kind of did this whole pivot in my training at this event and I started really working on this idea of cues. And there's this book by Vanessa Van Edwards called Cues. Huge fan, really great. And she calls herself a recovering awkward person. And she has this theory that, which totally works. A theory that charisma can be taught, which is pretty awesome. Some people it comes more naturally. But charisma can be taught because charisma comes down to being able to send verbal and non verbal cues to other humans to show that you are welcoming, to show that you are engaging and to, to give all of these other things, gather cues and signals that make you more, I guess, comfortable at being in public, comfortable at meeting other people and things like that. So I just read this book, Cues. And so at this meeting, I did this huge pivot, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I need to teach them how to be charismatic. Like, they're, you know, it's like they're a bunch of funny duddies. Now. They were cool. They were great people, but it was very meh. And so what we ended up doing was basically going through some of the things that I had learned in queues, so to see how it would basically apply in these offices. And we have since implemented it in multiple offices. And this is what caused us to create this course last year. But it allowed for us to really see what had happened. The idea was create this connection with your patient. Ultimately, what ended up happening was we were getting calls back from the doctors going, hey, our capture rate's increasing. And so what ended up happening was we created this sense of validation from the moment the patient came in the door as to how they should be purchasing in the office. So we create these connections, right? We can go deeper into connections later. But back to your kind of original question. We create these connections with the patient to give validation from the moment that the patient walks through the door on purchasing eyewear. So your front desk person can be making a reference rather than saying, okay, patient, go ahead and have a seat, and John will be out to take you back for your testing. Rather than saying that, saying, okay, patient, go ahead, and I'm going to take you over here. I'm going to show you these new Aetnea Barcelona frames that we just got in. They're really exciting, and John will come right out and grab you. Okay, so that's one opportunity there. The second opportunity is back in the text. Back with the text. The text can be validating the purchase of eyewear in the office. When they hear the patient complaints, because the patient, they're taking all the, you know, HPIs, and the patient, you know, chief complaints and all this stuff, they can be validating. Once they're hearing that, you know, they're having trouble nighttime driving, you can empower your tech to be saying, well, you know, John, with your nighttime driving, we've got this antireflective treatment, and as I'm reading these lenses, I'm noticing that you don't have it on your lenses. So I'm going to make a note for opticians to talk with you about that because it'll help in a huge way with your Nighttime driving. And they're the experts on that, so I'll leave that to them. But I'm going to go ahead and make a note of that. So what they're doing is they're just planting a little seed.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yep.

[Kayla Ashley]

Right. And so and the other thing, you know, that is really powerful as well is for text to be validating their visit with the doctor. So if the optician, or I'm sorry, if the patient is showing any sort of nervousness about their appointments, you know, like they're, they don't like how their vision is changing or they don't like that, you know, they're having to rely on readers all the time or something like that. To hear validation from the tech is very powerful because the techs are seen as like the nurses. Right. There's no sales commitments back with the text. And so this is a really powerful time to be influencing the patient that they're in the right spot and that, you know, the doctor is going to be able to help them. So some sort of verbiage like, okay, Mary, you know, doctor is going to be able to dial in the most amazing prescription for you. And also our opticians are really great with fitting progressive wearer. So you're not going to have that hard time that your friend had in her first time progressives. You've come to the right spot. And so to be able to give that validation when patients have their barriers down is really, really powerful. Back in the exam rooms, prescribed recommendations are really huge. And then coming back out, there are so many things that the optician can be doing as well. Back to your original question. As far as being able to create that influence, it happens with every. The moment the patient walks in the door. And we need to understand that in private practice it's really powerful to be able to send intentional verbal and nonverbal cues throughout the patient visit.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yeah, I love that. And I think the way that you position that is so, so well thought out. I'm curious in the. And I love the tech pre programming the patient. I love the front desk pre programming the patient. Let's go back to the exam room for a second because you gave me a couple of mistakes that doctors make, you know, like dropping the, dropping the volume and kind of managing your tonality. But what else can we do in the exam room as doctors to get patients to really, you know, I guess again, doctors aren't comfortable selling, like you said. So oftentimes they think though, somebody else can do the dirty work. But what are some easy sales techniques that we can add to our repertoire if we're the doctor sitting in the chair. And also, what are some of the mistakes that we can avoid that you haven't talked about yet?

[Kayla Ashley]

Great question. So sales opportunities. So much. People that are really good at sales, let's just say like outside sales or any sort of sales, basically, let's just not look at the optical industry. Any people that are really good at sales, what they're doing is they're, they're not just validating the conversation, but they're also giving you in in a verbal way, they're also validating the conversation in a non verbal way. And there are ways that we can connect on a human connection level with patients that we're not doing in the exam room. That's really quite powerful. And what's great is just a little bit of mindfulness and how you hold yourself or things that you are doing physically will help to really open up this door. So if anybody is in the market for buying a car, go to a car lot and you will notice that the best car salesmen have certain things that they do. Now, some of them we don't want to compare, we don't want to be car salesmen because there are some sleazy ones, let's be honest, that they're too over the top and they're sending the wrong signals. But there are really great ones that come in very gently and they give these types of cues that are very powerful. How this relates to the exam room is patients feel heard. And often as doctors, we will start in on our conversation. Once we hear kind of the hardship that the patient's happening that they are having, we allow for ourselves to go, oh, at that point we know what we're going to see in the slit lamp. We know probably, you know, the way that the prescriptions change based upon what they're telling us. And so we, we will often cut them off. Right. That's something that I think all doctors struggle with. However, what's more powerful is actually the, I guess, gestures. People are. Is it 712 times people are 12 times more likely to believe your gestures over your verbiage that you say. So it's really powerful. So think about that for a second. So it's kind of hard to do this on a podcast. So hopefully some of you are watching this.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yes, another plug for our YouTube channel. That's right. Thank you, Kayla.

[Kayla Ashley]

So hopefully some of you are watching this. But if I were to go like this, and I'm talking to you like this, even though we're on a virtual thing. You. Basically, I'm playing a little mind trick on you because you're wondering, I have my hands behind my back right now. For those that are listening, your. Your mind starts to go, what's, what's she doing? What's behind her? Why is she doing that? What's behind her back? What is she doing? What's happening?

[Eugene Shotsman]

It's subconscious. But I've in my mind, I brought it to the forefront. I'm like, oh, like that's, that's an interesting shift in posture. Like what. Why is she.

[Kayla Ashley]

Right, right. Yeah. And so the reality is that I can be very, very friendly. But what this does is it sends up will refer to those spidey senses. Again, it sends up this like what? It's questioning, right? Like what's happening? What is this? I'm uncomfortable. And this goes back to our caveman days where I'm going to drop my hands out now and you'll start to see. When I start moving like this, it automatically creates a sense of relief in your body, which is weird because I am of no danger to you. This is virtual. Right. But it does the same thing because it allows for hand gestures, allow for us to be able to basically, again, caveman days show that we're not carrying a weapon, we're not carrying a rock, we come in peace kind of thing. Right? So the, the whole thing of understanding that gestures are more powerful than the words that we're saying. I wasn't speaking, you know, in a way that would cause you concern or cause you, you know, any sort of anxiety, but just my gestures made you feel that way. And so the reality is that understanding that our gestures when it comes to our patients are very, very powerful in the exam room and things that we can be doing. And Vanessa Van Edwards calls it fronting. Fronting is very important. When you're talking to someone, you want your face, your I make the joke head, shoulders, knees and toes. Okay? So you need all of your head, shoulders, knees and toes pointing at that person. You will notice if you're at a party and somebody is wanting to get out of the conversation, just watch other conversations. You don't have to do it in yours. But the people that are wanting to get out of the conversation, they start rotating themselves out, right? Their feet starting towards the door. So those are the people that are not no longer interested in the conversation. Those are non verbal cues that they're giving. But people that are very interested, not only do they. Like I said, she calls it fronting where they Head, shoulders, knees and toes are facing, but they also kind of lean in. You can tell those conversations that have their engagement, they have full engagement. So how can we portray that in the exam room? In the exam room, when you walk in and you're talking to your patient, your patient is typically sitting in the exam chair. You walk in, you greet your patient. We can go over greetings in a little bit, but let's see, stick with the non verbals. You greet your patient, ideally shaking their hand. It shows. Again, Vanessa Van Ever is called the palm flashing. But you're, you're reaching out a hand of peace and welcoming, right? So I strongly recommend handshakes. So greet your patient and then you go about sitting down in the exam chair. The first thing that doctors will often do is they will turn to their computer and they will start opening up their computer. Don't do that. Stop it right now. The biggest opportunities that you have is to give the full frontal. You know, you want to be fronting with your patient to give this connection as soon as you meet them. So what you're going to do is you're going to walk in, you're going to greet your patient and you're going to sit down, keep facing them, head, shoulders, knees and toes. Keep facing them and say, how have you been, Mary? It's really good to see you. So as Mary starts talking, you know, we don't want to ask eye care questions here yet. Okay? Very important. So we want to greet them, we want to create this human connection. And so when she says, oh, you know, it's been a good summer. I've been hanging out with my grandkids. So like, oh, I want to hear more about that now. Excuse me, because I have to pull up this darn computer. But go ahead and tell me more about, you know, tell me more about those grandkids. Right now you can disconnect and come back to using your computer. Okay, so you, you've, you've made this effort. You've given what, maybe five, ten seconds of fronting? All we need is really a total of about little less than a minute of fronting. Okay? So we're going to give the first 5, 10 seconds so they automatically feel the connection with you. And then we're going to do our thing and we can, we can say as it's pulling up, some ehrs take forever. I know we can be pulling up our ehr and we can say, oh, yeah, I heard that you had a new grandbaby, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so we finally Get a pull up, we go back to the patient and we do another full fronting to the patient and we say, okay, Mary, now tell me what's been going on with your eyes. While we are fully facing the patient, she's going to say, you know, I'm having trouble with my nighttime driving, or actually, it's just my regular exam. I'm. Whatever. We keep this conversation and we have the conversation. Do not turn back to your computer. Don't do it. You want to keep at least 30 seconds here, and for some doctors, that seems like an eternity. But you need 30 seconds here because what it'll allow for you to do is the patient from that moment on will feel heard. You can be totally not listening. I encourage you to listen. But you, at that point, they will feel heard because of that. The nonverbal gestures that you have given them, you can be repeating everything. You can be saying all the right things. But if you're not giving them those verbal gestures, those cues, and remember, we're 12 times more likely to believe gestures over words. When you are giving those gestures, the patient will feel heard. Now from that moment on, you can just have your normal interaction. As far as, you know, going from, let's say she's talking about, I don't know, her problems with, you know, changing with nighttime driving or something. You can say, okay, Mary, I want to, I want you to keep telling me about that because I'm going to go about entering this into the exam notes here. Tell me more about. When are you. When did this start with your nighttime driving or something like that? So you're still engaging the patient at this point, but you've already given that fronting time. Yeah, you've already given that fronting time with them that you can now turn away and utilize your computer. This also applies because I have some doctors that I've worked with that they're like, well, my computer is right here so I can face the patient and be on my computer. Same thing applies. And also you need to, in fronting, you need to not have a barrier in between you. So I would actually encourage you to slide out during your fronting time and then slide back in behind your desk to be able to enter in your exam notes and things like that. So all you have to do in your fronting is give about a minute of total fronting time and your patient.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Will feel the connection and clear plug, obviously for. And probably don't have time for me to get going on this topic. But just, you know, think about the value of a Scribe in the exam room where you could. And I see this data all the time where the doctors. And sometimes it's like, well, the doctor is spending less time with the patient, but the patient follows the doctor's recommendations more and they have a higher revenue per patient because, because there's somebody else on the exam room and they can see more patients per hour. But there's somebody else in the exam room and the patient feels the connection because the doctor never, never takes their eyes off the, you know, like your whole full fronting thing. Like the doctor never leaves that posture, never has to, you know, because I, and I've seen this firsthand as well during, during my observations. It's like, you know, if you turn away, the second that you turn away from a patient, you have to win them back again with the, with the fronting thing. So like there's now a, you know, there's this extra pressure of like rebuilding your credibility. And I just, I feel like it's so, so important if you can, if you can think about the business case for it. It's so important to think about the value of a scribe or you know, ambient scribe or whatever because I completely agree with you. If the patient trusts you, which you build through all of the things you just talked about, if the patient trusts you, then they, then they're likely to take your recommendations and they're also likely to buy, to, to purchase eyewear in your office. Now I want to fast forward to that maybe the last couple things that I, that I want to ask you about, which is if I'm trying to increase the value of the sale. Right. Like we haven't had the time to go through like every little step in the optical. But what are, what are some of the biggest mistakes people make or maybe what are some of the best, the most successful moves in the optical to get the additional component of the sale? Whether it's the anti reflective, whether it's the warranty, whether it's the multiple pair. But how do I increase the revenue of a transaction according to Kayla?

[Kayla Ashley]

So the biggest mistake that opticals near and far, everyone's making this mistake is when it comes to multiple pair sales. And I'm going to give you a little story. My husband has a really beautiful fancy Cadillac that he has all matted out and everything else. It's, it's his baby. Okay. And I don't normally take the Cadillac to the hand car wash that he has to go to. Mine doesn't go to the hand car wash. His does because it's Fancy. Okay, so he likes his fancy car to the hand car wash. And so one day I'm taking the fancy car to the hand car wash. And it's one of those where, you know, you drive it through and then you get out and you wait while they like hand dry it and do all the fancy stuff to it. And, and, and on this particular day, you know, the gentleman comes up and he calls my name or calls our number and he's like, number 43. And he's like, this is your black Cadillac. And I was like, yeah. And he goes, well, you know, I just wanted to double check with you. Did you want us to go about putting, putting the wax layer on the car? It'll really help with, you know, it's like a rain X something. It'll really help with the overall performance and keep it cleaner longer. And I was like, you just washed the freaking car. You just wash the car? Like, no, I'm not gonna do that now. Like, that's insane. Right? So little backstory that wasn't completely true. But think of the same validation of what we do when it comes to patients. When we purchase, they go about, they purchase their progressives, they get all done with the whole darn thing, and then we go, all right, so you wanna go ahead and look at some sunglasses? No, I just did everything.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yeah, right.

[Kayla Ashley]

That seems ridiculous. So just as it's equally ridiculous for someone at the car wash to say, hey, do you want to go through the whole thing again and get a wax on it? No, I don't because that's insane. So we need to keep in the optical. We need that level of awareness that our patient is going through all of this stuff with selecting eyewear and talking insurance and talking prices and doing all these things to make them restart is the most exhausting experience to me. No, I don't even want to do it with five minute car wash, let alone, you know, a 20 minute frame select. No, absolutely not. So I say all of that because like I said, opticals near and far are making this mistake of not having the constant awareness of multiple pair. So while your patient is picking out those glasses, being able to validate that pair of glasses like, oh, before they even try it on. Oh, look at these glasses. Oh, yes. You know what, we actually have a set of sunglasses that totally complement those. Let me grab those while you try that on. Keeping that level of awareness when it comes to multiple pairs throughout the purchasing period. So that as you go about writing them up, you can also. A great example that some offices do is they will go about in their quote say, you know what, I'm also we have a multiple pair discount. So as I'm, you know, pricing this out for you, I'm going to go ahead and price out a set of sunglasses. You had tried on those, those other pair, you know, they were about 250. So I'm going to go ahead and price out a set of sunglasses for you as well just so you could see that great discount that you'll be getting. It allows for number one, that level of awareness and number two, not having to redo the whole darn thing over again. Yeah. So that's a really big mistake. And opportunity.

[Eugene Shotsman]

Yeah. And then what kind of, what kind of bump in multiple pair sales have you seen when people adopt this type of, this type of mentality?

[Kayla Ashley]

That's a really great question. It's harder for the thing is we have with Specsy we have a frame turn platform that's also offered with frame turn adaptations in multiple pairs. I can actually see that data. So there are certain bits that I can see with certain changes as to how multiple pairs increase. Not all of our offices are on the frame turn platform. And so it's harder, it's more feedback from what I get from offices which is, you know, can be a little, little distorted. I had one office tell me what that implementation that they saw, their multiple pair sales doubled month over month for six months, which is great. And their multiple sales started out really low. They were only doing about three or four a month originally, but they doubled at least every single month over the next six months, which is really powerful. So as far as capture rate increase, I could tell you with other bits of data on our platform but feedback that we're getting from offices. Another office that I just had a meeting with the other day, we were working with their team really intensely on being able to add the sunglass sales in there. Throughout the whole conversation they actually reported that they had a 15% capture rate increase and that actually created more multiple pair sales, which is funny because they did less sales to the number of patients, which is funny. So they were able to actually increase their capture rate because they were selling more multiple pairs even though they were selling to less patients.

[Eugene Shotsman]

So yeah, I mean I, and I think the value of that advice and really that is a big take home moneymaker is the work the second pair into the quote before, you know, and don't ask the yes or no question. Would you like me to do like kind of the same. Do you want to shop for glasses? I go back a few minutes on the podcast, and it's the same question, right? Would you like me to do this? No. I'm tired. I've been here for too long. I need to get the heck out of here. Like, no, I would not like that. But in the world of. Okay, so here it is. I've already done it. Now let's look at this great discount you're going to be getting. Like, ask me to pull it back. Right? Like, that's the component. Okay. We are, unfortunately out of time. This has been so wonderful. I can't wait to have you back on the show. I am really curious to hear what the feedback is from the audience as they. As they listen to your insights. I'm going to post a whole bunch of information you're going to give me as to how people can find you and how they can get involved and. And learn more from you if they want to. But certainly super grateful for all of your advice and for all your insights on the show today, Kayla.

[Kayla Ashley]

Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. I'm excited to hear the feedback from people, of course. All right. I'd love to be back.