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Power Hour Optometry
The 187 Million Views YouTube Strategy Every Doctor Should Understand | Educating Patients at Scale
01:02:07
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the Power Hour, Optometry's biggest and longest running show. I'm your host, Eugene Shotsman, and today's episode is one I have been looking forward to for a while because it is something I talk about all the time, but really to the next level. So if you've listened to the show or if you've heard me on stage, you've heard me talk about how YouTube is one of the most powerful ways to fuel the backend of both Google search and also increasingly AI search as well. So kind of a backdoor to how patients are discovering information today and how AI is referencing information today. And today we get to learn how to actually do YouTube, right? We're learning from somebody who does it well. How well, My guest is Dr. Joseph Allen, and at the time of this recording, his content has generated over 187 million views on YouTube with over 1.3 million subscribers. At any moment, thousands of people are watching his videos. That's how good. And the reason this matters to you is because even if you've never created content, this isn't necessarily becoming like dancing on TikTok or becoming a influencer. If you. Of course, I'm sure Joey could help you figure out how to do that. But he started a while ago with a simple realization. Patients don't fully understand what optometrists do because they can't see it. So he started using his videos to show them, and in doing so, he built his essentially global patient education engine. And in this episode, he's going to break down step by step his story of how he did it from literally zero experience a few years ago to nearly 200 million views. And more importantly, how you can apply this in your own practice, even at a much smaller scale. We talk about what topics get attention, what are the tricks to get your video found and clicked on how to think about content if you're just getting started. And by Even a simple 3 minute video can change the way that your patients perceive value of the things that you do. So if you've ever thought about creating content, or you know you should be, and by the way, it's easier than ever with AI. And we talk about that too. This is a great place to start. Quick reminder, make sure you're subscribed on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shows. And if you want to talk through how this episode applies to your practice, reach out to me directly@eugene shotsman.com over on the Power Hour website. And now, let's get into it. All right, Joey Allen, welcome to the Power Hour. Excited to have you on the show.
- [02:23]
B
Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me here. This is exciting.
- [02:27]
A
So listen, I'm going to get right into it, and I think this is an incredible stat. We were talking right before the show, I had you look up some of your stats and there are 5,000 people or so literally watching your channel on YouTube right now. That's like. And we were talking, it's like you giving a lecture to 5,000 people right now. And I know I mentioned some of your stats in the introduction, but I, I'm sure everybody wants to know, like, how did you get here? What, what, how did you become? And I, you know, I'll give you the title the, The. The most. The. The most famous eye doctor on YouTube.
- [03:08]
B
Well, I, I would say I'm not the most famous. There are some ophthalmologists in India who have way more followers and, and viewers than I do technically. But part of that is because of how YouTube works in India. It actually is a bit different, but still. Thank you. So I'll just kind of share kind of some of the story of how I got into YouTube, like how I found it and like, my mission behind making content. So I started in 2018, I had the idea of like, hey, what would it be like to have a. You not just a YouTube channel, but what would it be like to have like a TV show about eye care? And I had that idea like in 2017, and I kind of spitballed the idea with a few other doctors I worked with. One doctor specifically, he even gave a kind of a call out to me. He's like, I think you'd actually be really good on like, you know, making social media and things like that. And so it kind of planted the seed of like, you know, what a lot of my patients, I wish, you know, they didn't really understand when I told them what an anti reflective was because they couldn't see it. Right? They couldn't appreciate the subtleties of how a good quality anti reflective will improve their eyesight or their comfort or their appearance with their glasses. But I'm like, well, what if there's a TV show where I could basically show them visually what they're looking at and hopefully they would appreciate like that value. And so I was like, okay, well, I can't wait around for someone else to make a kind of a TV show around eye care, so I'm going to do it. And at that time on YouTube, there just wasn't much for eye care content There was a few doctors on there, but they often didn't speak to the consumer's level. They used words and verbiage, and it was way over everyone's head. And it really wasn't entertaining or keep your attention. And so I just had a different vision and started going to work at it. It was certainly not, as they say, it was not a bed of roses or, you know, to quote to queen or whatnot, no pleasure cruise. But, you know, I had to go through learning how to do it because a lot of people ask, oh, you must have had some training or experience doing video and stuff like that before optometry school and all that. I'm like, no, not at all.
- [05:37]
A
And hold on just one second. So 2018, what state is your career in? Where are you practicing? What are you doing?
- [05:46]
B
Yeah, so I graduated 2015 and from optometry school, then did my residency at the VA in Minneapolis. And so I started working right out of residency at between two different private practices. One, I was practicing about three and a half days a week because I'd do a Saturday, like half day, and then the other two days of the week I'd fill in at a different private practice.
- [06:15]
A
Got it. And the need was, as you're talking to these patients, the need was, hey, I only have so much I can do in the, in the room. Let me give you another resource 100%.
- [06:29]
B
So that was kind of one of the ideas is that like, because I, I had been frustrated. I remember this one patient where he had not only diabetes, but glaucoma and he had cataracts. And, you know, all he really wanted was new glasses so that he could see. And then he also ended up blaming me that he couldn't. He now needed bifocals because I dilated him. But he was, you know, he was like 75. Uh, the. But I realized, like, hey, if I made a video about cataracts, then I could perhaps instead of, I could just give him a small education thing that he's got some cataracts, and then I could instruct him. Actually, I have a video that goes more in depth on cataracts if he wants to learn more. So it would save me time in the clinic. I wouldn't need to over explain everything. And I would end up delivering a higher level of value that they could show their family, they could share with their friends. And we still see that. In fact, especially on holidays when people are sitting around like the Thanksgiving or Christmas, we see our views skyrocket. And I think it's because people love to talk about their health. And they'll be like, oh, I've got these floater things. Let me show you this video. This is what I see. And so we see a lot of our videos around astigmatism, ifloaters and. And other eye diseases kind of skyrocket at those times.
- [07:51]
A
It's. It's funny that. That maybe we'll have time to cover it, but it's the. The data that you have on the things that people care about the most is probably insane. But I want to go back to your journey. So you're seeing patients, you decide that you're going to have a TV show on YouTube. How'd you choose YouTube, by the way?
- [08:13]
B
So I think at the time, I. I only knew of YouTube because I grew up with it, right? It came out when I was in high school technically. And then in college, it really blew up because everyone watched it because it had funny videos. And then I would learn stuff, you know, during the summer, I'm like, bored. Okay, how do I play guitar? How do I, you know, how do I cook? How do I do these things? You just watch a video on YouTube and you'd learn. And at that time, I didn't have even a smartphone, so I didn't get my first smartphone until 2016, till I finished residency. And at that time, I only knew of Facebook. I didn't know that Instagram was a thing. LinkedIn wasn't purchased by Microsoft yet, so it really wasn't a. A big platform. And so I only really knew of YouTube. So that's where I planted my flag. And it's ended up having more benefits than I thought it would. Probably the biggest reason is that Google owns YouTube, and Google searches are, of course, Google searches are still number one. But a lot of YouTube content plugs in through kind of a backdoor into Google's search algorithm. So people can search an I topic or answers for an I thing, and they'll be served up one of my videos explaining that exact topic.
- [09:41]
A
And that's the thing, and I talk about this with our clients all the time, is that. And one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on the show is that we talk about how YouTube is a great backdoor into the search algorithm on Google, but it's also now becoming a great backdoor into all the AI search algorithms as well, because they often reference Google properties and YouTube being a Google property. So obviously it's naturally feeding the Gemini AI component and content from your videos comes up in. In the knowledge panel. Right. Or in the, in the AI knowledge sources that comes up and then obviously with the link to your video or you know, as we, as we continue the conversation, I'm sure we'll get into the. What should you do? If you are a practice owner or, or an optometrist and you want to get a little bit of the piece of the pie specifically in your area, I think hyperlocal videos may work, but then you also have a really different business model. So I completely agree with you. I think that YouTube is such a fricking smart choice. But let me ask you, how did you resist the temptation and to like then cross pollinate on every other platform like every other influencer does?
- [10:58]
B
So I think early on I just, I knew that hey, if I'm, I honestly just, it was struggle of an overwhelm of trying to learn every platform because I was getting overwhelmed of like okay, Facebook, how does Facebook work? How do you upload a video to there? How does that work differently? If I upload it to YouTube and, and then actually Instagram came out with Instagram TV at that time, which I don't even think exists anymore.
- [11:24]
A
Yep, it does not.
- [11:25]
B
But they then they were trying that and I was just, you know, if you spread yourself too thin, you're not going to get anywhere. So I really just dialed in on, on you on YouTube. Now that our channel has grown and we're big enough now, we're considering, hey, maybe we should take some of our older content and just put it on basically every platform just so we can reach more people. But I think another motivating factor early on to having things just dedicated on YouTube is that if people watch on YouTube, we actually generated more income as a business than if we were to get views on a different platform like Facebook, Instagram or, or someplace else. Right. So if somebody watches that video on Facebook, I'm going to make pennies. Where if somebody watches that same video on YouTube and I'd least direct people from Facebook, hey, go watch this video over on YouTube then I do potentially generate a higher income. Right. It's like pennies versus like $16. Like it's a clear cut difference. Yeah.
- [12:35]
A
And I think maybe this is where possibly the deviation is going to start between you and somebody else who's going to be just getting into it right now where, because you have a successful business and I think you told me once that you, your full time job is making content and your part time job is seeing patients participating in AoA events and other things. That you choose to do. But in all reality it sounds like you're not making videos to see more patients. Why are you making videos, Joey?
- [13:18]
B
Yeah, primarily just to educate. I know. I want people to see their best today as well as tomorrow. And for every year into the future. I recognized that a vast majority of the issues that our patients have is just that they didn't know, they didn't know that a lot of their eye diseases started 20 years ago or that its effect, that it's reflective of their diet and their lifestyle. And I, I realized our profession, the narrative of our value as optometrists, as eye care professionals was often being
- [14:01]
A
taught
- [14:02]
B
through the lens by other marketing companies. Oftentimes for products like whether it be glasses or contact lenses that are being sold online, they often will paint our value as eye doctors in a very negative light. And I'm like, no, they don't understand what we do. Right. So my idea was that hey, if I can, instead of people finding misinformation online, what if I could just make a, basically a library of information of true evidence based eye health information.
- [14:37]
A
And, and so now you have a close to 500 videos I think. And that's not including your shorts, I believe. And with that in mind, like how is, how is that a business? How does it work as a business?
- [14:55]
B
Yeah, so that's definitely a mindset. I tell the people if they're going to start making social media to have it as the mindset that they are running a business. And because it takes time, it takes a lot of time and it takes skill and thinking ahead of time. So as a business, I would say it's evolved over the years. When I first started it was purely kind of testing the waters, like proof of concept. Could this even grow? Could this, could this generate income? Because I started off investing thousands of dollars into equipment and then can't even put a number on how much time I spent learning the skills and basically making content. But by the end of the first year, just off of AdSense alone, just, just the, when I say AdSense, that's what Google calls it when they send me a check for all of the, the, the money that went into running the advertisements at the beginning and end of a video, I think at the end of the year I made about 50,000. At the end of 12 months I made about $50,000 that year. So it definitely paid off. A lot of the equipment definitely didn't, I think, come close to how much time I spent. You know, if you, if you convert that to how Many hours I could have spent seeing patients in the clinic, it would not have equalized. But that was just kind of the growth phase of the first year. As the business has grown, yes, we gain money from ads. Yes, we grow by some affiliate marketing. So if I mention a warm compress and, or sunglasses of some brand and somebody is interested in purchasing that, if they. We give proper disclosures. Everything follows FTC guidelines. If they click that and make a purchase on the other end, we may make a small percentage. It can range anywhere from 1% to 30% of a commission off of a product. And then we now, as things have evolved more now we do take on some sponsorships. And we also set kind of. Some companies come to us because they want to use our videos in their own marketing. Right. They're like, hey, we love this video. You mentioned our product. We want to run this as an ad on Instagram or they want to run it as an ad on YouTube. And since I own the rights to the content I've made, I will more or less sell them marketing rights for X amount of time, whether that be one month, three months, whatever they're looking for based on their budget. And it's not what I went to school for. It's not the type of business I thought I'd ever be running. But it helps fuel the mission of making this content. Making more content that helps reach more people and helps them hopefully understand and appreciate the value of what we do. How they can better take care of their eyes and ultimately drive them back into the office chair of the local ODs and eye doctors so that they can get the best care they can, rather than, you know, them just trying to search online for some weird online trend where they end up buying a, you know, mysterious eye drop that cures every eye disease. That. That's not real.
- [18:31]
A
Yeah, well, So, I mean, 200 million views is not easy to come by. And so obviously it's extremely clear that you're very, very successful at this. Now, when did you first know that this was like, okay, this is going from an experiment to like, I think I'm going to do more of this than I am doing anything else.
- [18:57]
B
Yeah. So I think around 2021, because, you know, I started in 2018 and it was kind of proof of concept year. I was actually. It took like four months of making videos and not getting any views until finally something clicked and I was like, okay, some videos are doing well. Why? Let me figure out reverse engineer double click on why these videos are getting more views. 2019 was still very much an experimental year and spending more time focusing on what am I doing once 2020 hit. And that was a year for everybody resident. I was just around maybe 80, 90,000 subscribers at the beginning of 2020. But then when 2020 hit, all the advertisers pulled out of the, out of YouTube because they thought the world was ending. And so then you'd see like your income go to like a tenth from the AdSense. It was, it was a huge issue for a lot of creators online. But I just said, you know what? I'm at home. So I'm. And everybody else is at home, so I'm going to make more content for people who are having eye issues at home. And then I started getting even more viewership. So by the time 2021 came around, we had around 200,000 subscribers. And I had enough income from this YouTube channel to say, you know what, I can offset a lot more of my time in the clinic. So I dropped down from five and a half days a week to about two and a half days a week and thought, you know what, I'm gonna put more energy into making these videos. Because at the end of the year, I don't think to myself, geez, I wish I saw more people in the clinic. I always think, wow, I wish I would have had more time to make more videos on more topics to help answer more of these people's questions. And so I'm still at that spot. I'm still seeing patients at least one to two days a week, usually at least once. That way I can keep my toes wet, I can keep my skills sharp. I'm still staying relevant with patient care. But most of the weeks, the other, I would say the other six days a week, I'm still researching, I'm writing, I'm planning, I'm shooting content, we're sending it to editors. We are trying to stay at the cutting edge of what's new coming out in the industry so that we can kind of research it and think, okay, how do we, as a leader in this field, how do we bring this information to consumers so that when they go in to see their doctor, they, they maybe have the right questions to ask, or their doctor, they're, they're not like surprised by their doctor mentioning this new product. You know, my hope, my goal is I would love for a patient to get into, to a doctor's chair and already know about something like intense pulse light or ipl. And when they're struggling with dry eye, when the doctor mentions, actually you'd be a great candidate for this. They don't have any questions. They're like, yes, I want that. Like they, they don't have any reservations that they just know that much about it.
- [22:15]
A
Yeah.
- [22:16]
B
And that's a dream.
- [22:17]
A
Now, you said you're seeing patients one to two days a week. Do you. Does your practice charge a premium to see the famous doctor?
- [22:28]
B
No, but I. We probably should. Yeah.
- [22:32]
A
I've got a. I've got a whole business model that I came up with in my head as you were saying that. But let's, let's go back for, for a second. And by the way, I imagine like, are you. Is it. Are you seeing typical refractions or is there a specific type of patient that you're trying to see at this point in your career?
- [22:54]
B
Yeah, so I mean, I do see routine. A lot of our clinic is. Still does a lot of routine. I personally do see a lot of advanced dry eye anterior segment disease in general. We do have quite a few people who do seek care because they found me online or they've listened to me for years. And I hate to say, do they
- [23:16]
A
fly cross country or are they.
- [23:19]
B
So when I lived in Minnesota, we had people travel from all over the world, even from Dubai and other parts of the country will fly in. I've here since I moved to Virginia about two years ago. Still we're getting people who drive or take the train for multiple hours from New York or from Maine. We've had some people fly in to come see me, which is always an honor. But it also is a little bit of pressure because I would say most of the cases are not easy. They are train wrecks. They are people who've been misdiagnosed people, people who have 12 different diagnoses of multiple things going on, most of which you can't handle in one visit. And so it does make it more complicated, but it is always an honor. Some people do come in and they're just like, nope, I want absolutely everything. They don't care what it costs. They don't care if they don't have. If their insurance isn't covered. So there's some benefits there.
- [24:19]
A
Yeah, I can imagine. With again, if there's 5,000 people watching your videos literally right this minute, I imagine those people are like, that's the doctor that I want. You mentioned something which kind of sparked something in my mind is like, at one point you went back and you reverse engineered what's working, what's not working. So let's talk a little bit more practical. Um, if I am someone who is creating or starting to think about creating content on YouTube. If I am a practice owner who is kind of considering like, hey, I'm going to make some videos. What, what, what shortcuts can you offer me? What mistakes did you make that I don't have to make if I'm that person that I can learn from yours?
- [25:09]
B
Yeah. So first of all, everybody's vain when it comes to content that's popular on social media. People care more about their eye bags and how their dark circles around their eyes look than they do about their diabetic retinopathy. Right. And so if you can figure out what those pain points are and how to best hook somebody and draw them in, that you have the answer or that you can help them in some way like that's, that's going to help you find more views, more success than you talking about. And I hate to say it, but things that we often care about and learn about in school, the general consumers don't care. Like they. Vanity is probably number one.
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A
And give me a few more topics that like are high performing topics for you from a vanity standpoint.
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B
Well, from vanity, definitely. Again, eye bags, dark circles, eye color, like you're not going to correct too much of that. I mean there's a little bit of like, you know, conspiracy, you know, not conspiracy, but there's criticism of some of the new surgeries to change your eye color. There's even like a documentary movie on Netflix 1 right now, like making content about what we can detect as doctors just from looking at the eye. So like arcus senilis, for example, if, if we see this in somebody who's over the age of 40, I'm concerned that, you know, if they're over the age of 40, I'm not too concerned, but if they're under the age of 40, I'm concerned about their, their cholesterol levels, you can call that out. And people will be anything that will drive them to go to the mirror and try to look at their own eye, they'll going to think that's exciting and kind of fascinating. But obviously they can't look inside their eye and tell if they have retinopathy. So it's, it's probably not going to get as much attention. Now is it equally important? Yes. But just if you're trying to get traction to get views to get people's attention, especially early on, if you're starting any sort of a YouTube channel or social media that is a very, that would consider retinopathy very niche. Other topics that people have done very. Has worked well on the channel. It's not hard to look at that. You can go to my channel and type in, you know, you can click the button to see what's popular. Ones that are really popular are also anything about ifloaters because they're annoying and they. People are confused by them. And most of the time we tell people just like, oh, they're normal or just, you know, you'll get used to them. But people are looking for answers. Like they, they. They don't visually understand what it is we're. What they are really experiencing. And they want to know more, especially if there's some way that could improve their life in some way.
- [28:12]
A
Yeah. And I think one of the things that is really interesting is when we can correlate eye health to overall general health. Right. B. I mean, you can kind of say, what can we see? Because I think I am still stuck on your earlier point that one of your goals in creating all this content is to help somebody understand that an eye doctor is not necessarily just somebody who hands you a prescription after a couple minutes of, you know, spinning the dialogue. But a visit to an optometrist is a lot more. And so talk a little bit more about that. Are there interesting pockets of content that have really performed well in that category for you?
- [29:00]
B
Yeah. So, yeah, A vast majority of my videos, I would say, is focused more on the health of the eye. Certainly glasses, vision correction, contact lenses are, are all very important. And that's a, that's a big part of what we do and, and how we can help people. But again, part of my mission is to help people understand that connection that we are doing way more than that. And so even part of the name Dr. Eye Health is because I want people to know that I'm a doctor. It's about the eyes and it's about keeping them healthy. Not necessarily, you know, I'm not the Dr. Glass's guy. It's. That's not the main focus.
- [29:42]
A
Got it. When we come back, I'm going to get into concrete ideas and concrete points that you might have for somebody who is starting out and helping someone realize that it's not. It's not so hard to get started and to make an impact. We'll be right back on the Power Hour. Hey there, it's Eugene and I want to let you in on something. So you've been to conferences before. You come home fired up and then Monday morning hits and it's back to the grind. The ideas don't stick the plan never gets made and six months later your practice is in the same place. So I know that pain. I've been to those conferences with you and that is not happening. At this new event called I Care Boss Live. You've heard the story of I Care Boss and now there's an event, I Care Boss Live. It's September 16th through 18th in Cleveland. Two and a half days. We're bringing together 200 of the best practice owners in Icare for a one of a kind event that combines speakers, peer learning, mastermind groups and industry innovation, all designed around one goal. You leave with a 90 day plan and you can actually execute it and get stuff done. And we're going to tackle some real stuff. Exam only rates, revenue per patient, people problems, leadership, AI and technology, specialty growth, Ethereum, things that keep people up at night. We're going after it and we're doing it in a room full of practice owners that are just as serious about growth as you are. This is not a conference, it's not a seminar. It's something different. There are only 200 spots, so if you want to be in on this, this is not publicly announced, just on this podcast. Go to thepowerpractice.com, click events, click apply now. This is invite only. It's not for everybody. So you have to apply. We'll ask you a few questions and if it's a fit, we'll invite you to register this event. I Care Boss Live is going to sell out. Do not sit on it. I invite you to apply right now. Welcome back to the Power hour. I've got Dr. Joey Allen with me and I think we've been talking about how you got to where you are and some of the content that resonates with your viewers, which I think anyone who's listening can probably take some lessons away and say, okay, well, we got make content and vanity. That's where we start. And those are the topics that matter the most. If you get someone to take action or look in the mirror, look at their eye. I think those are concrete things, but I want to get into more concrete stuff. So maybe let's back up for a second and talk about your process. When it's time for you to brainstorm what video you're going to make. After making 500 videos, when it's time for you to figure out how much time it is going to take you to film or where you want to film or what equipment you're going to use, just talk me through your process as a professional creator of videos on YouTube.
- [32:35]
B
So right now I focus, I kind of have three areas I get kind of content ideas from. First of which is like the questions people ask. There's people who request of certain topic on a video. Like some people want, they want information on stem cell therapy for eye diseases. But then I have content that I'll do research in the back end of, like, what is trending in social media, what is being favored in the algorithm, whether it be on YouTube or one of the other social sites. And that'll tell me, okay, perhaps I should be doing a video on a certain trending topic. But then I also have my, in kind of my internal. As a leader of like, no, my, my mission is to help people with, take care of their eyes. So I want to do more content about like the new research that came out on a vitamin or a lifestyle dietary choice that can reduce your chance of getting macular degeneration. I'm just giving examples from there. I have to pick a topic and I spend a long time trying to think about the title, specifically in YouTube, the title and the thumbnail that people will see. Because that combination of the title, the thumbnail, if the, if those, if the topic title, the thumbnail are really strong, that's where people are going to click to actually watch. And because if you have, if, if none of those really work or vibe together, then most people aren't even going to click the video to watch it to begin with. So all of your time spent writing, editing kind of becomes pointless.
- [34:26]
A
So is that where you, you would recommend somebody use AI or. Because, I mean, let's, let's rewrite a title. And as a marketer, I sort of, you know, I, I, I completely agree with you. And we're going to ask about the hook next, but let's rewrite the title. When someone says, you know, you can imagine somebody publishing a video that says diabetic retinopathy Facts. Let's rewrite it.
- [34:51]
B
Ooh. So, yeah, you can definitely use AI to help with this. So I actually did a video not too long ago that basically was this. I did a video on how sugar affects the eyes. And if you scroll down or if you find the channel, I think it was published in February 2026. It said, this is what sugar does to your eyes.
- [35:14]
A
There you go.
- [35:16]
B
And the thumbnail of it, I used AI to do that. I took a picture of my own eye, uploaded it to an AI generator and told it to put a skull and crossbones in the middle of the pupil and just made a simple thumbnail that says sugar me pointing toward my eye and it's got like a big skull. Because I knew that like, that is going to be a striking image of skull and crossbones. And people often associate, especially in the diet tribes online, that sugar is going to lead to like death and it's unhealthy. But if you watch the video and start listening to it, I'm. I'm mostly talking about the effects of diabetes on the eye. So it's kind of. I just knew that just the term diabetic retinopathy is very speaking to a person who's looking for. Who probably is struggling with retinopathy and looking for answers. I already did a video on that like five years ago. So this one is just a different positioning.
- [36:17]
A
That's. That's brilliant. I love it. And I think we probably could spend the rest of the time rewriting titles, but I think that hits the point. And I think a big, big thing we always try to teach is just stop the scroll. Like, what is striking enough to get someone to be like, ah, yes, I do, I do think that that is jarring enough that I want to invest my limited time or attention into that. And you have to think about that. And you know, I've often seen people make excellent content. Like the information they're sharing is good, but the thumbnail and really the, you know, you get like a guy standing in front of a room and it's a poorly lit background and you know, and you know, and not the most photogenic person from a distance and their hand is doing an awkward gesture because that's the thumbnail that got like auto selected. Right? And that's the, and that unfortunately, I think devalues the quality of the content. What would you say? Like what, what percentage of, of if you had to spend your time, if you, what percentage of your time do you spend thinking about the actual content and then thinking about how you actually market that content, which is the, which is the title, the hook and the. Than the thumbnail.
- [37:47]
B
So I think in. Historically, in the past, I think I spent way more time focusing on the content and less time thinking about the thumbnail and the hook or less time thinking about the thumbnail and the title. But now it's the exact opposite. I spend the most time thinking before I even make the video. I try to think, can I come up with a title on this topic that is fire. That is going to be good. And that title is going to help form. Form what the video's about. But then I have to sit and Think, okay, what can a thumbnail even look like? Right. Will the thumbnail be attractive? Will it get attention? Will it be enough sitting off to the side that if somebody's watching some other content that's boring, will it catch their eye just a little bit for them to look at it and be interested in? Does need to be. So it is a little bit. You want to be a little bit clickbaity, but not too clickbaity that it leads down like a conspiracy theory. That's not true. Right. But you want it to be just enough to get attention or like, as you said, stop, scroll. So I personally still do a lot of my own thumbnails. I have a couple of different editing teams that are. Are doing some thumbnails for me, and they're doing okay. They're not. I don't feel like they're at 100 of where I'm at. But it's. When you're training, it's like, it's just like hiring a staff member, you know, your technician that you just hired off the street. You got to train them. And they get a little bit better every day and every week. And after a few years now they're much better than where they started. So I'm, again, I'm still kind of pushing them a little. Can I get a little bit better this next time? A little bit better. But that's part of how that game is played.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah. And I think as I scroll through your channel right now, and I encourage any listener to do this, I can totally see exactly what you're talking about, which is every single one of these things. You have the right expression on your face. You've got, you know, it's. It's a little. And. And I think it. I noticed this is that, you know, you're. The expression on your face seems to indicate. See, seems to make someone curious. And so you're either surprised or you're shocked or you're disappointed. And like, I'm trying to use words to describe the way I'm looking at your inquisitive. Yes.
- [40:20]
B
You know, th. Those. You know, sometimes it's serious, you know, like, I try to. When I take pictures of. It feels weird to take pictures and video of yourself. I think when you get in first, getting into editing and all that, you're like, this is just odd. You know, it's like hearing your own voice for the first time. But when I pick photos like this, I try to one have an idea of what the title is of course going to be because that's Going to convey an emotion, whether it be fear or concern or surprise. But I try to genuinely think and have that emotion as if I was telling a patient this. Like, the camera's counting down. Five, four. It's about to take this photo and I try to picture my friend in front of me. And I think, like, I'm telling him, you know, like this. I'm trying to think here. Like, I'm looking at some of my photos right now. Like, blindness, risk from GLP1s right. Like, if my friend was starting to take a GLP one, like, I would want him to know this. And my face is like, dude, you gotta. You have to know about this. And I try to have that emotion while I'm taking the photo because I do believe there's a little bit of expression, there's more soul in your eyes when you're looking at it. And I do believe as humans, we learn to communicate or read other people's emotions through facial expressions. So it maybe only converts to Maybe a small 1 percentage of people who click on it. But I do think there's some, there's some community.
- [41:56]
A
I think it's huge, man. Like, I, I'm seriously. I think it's such an important realization that people need to have. Is that, that, that the first impression that people have and when they're looking at your face. Like, we were just. We've evolved to take a lot of context cues and clues from the, from the way that someone's facial expression sits and that. And you have so much control over that in the, in the way that YouTube presents that. Let's talk about the hook for a second. So how do you open videos?
- [42:33]
B
So there's many different strategies to, as we say, the hook. The first 10 seconds, 30 seconds of a video, uh, obviously, if you're on something on A. On YouTube, videos are usually longer, right? You're somewhere between five minutes to. You could go up to an hour if you want. But the first 10 to 30 seconds, you need to get one. Someone already clicked the video. Now you need to get. Keep them on the video. You need something that lets them know that the video that they clicked on is about the topic that, that they are promised. Because if all of a sudden it's just a cat video, they're going to click off and go somewhere else. Uh, so you do need to get their attention, but I'll let them know that you're talking about the same thing that you promised. But give them enough of a reason why they want to stay toward the end that's kind of like the magic. The magic hook. If you can get all those three things at once. Easy ones are questions, especially if the title is already a question, whether it be rhetorical or not. A lot of times using some sort of motion in the first few seconds of the editing will keep people's eyes stuck on it a little bit longer. But almost anything, right? For example, the easy one, the question of, like, do sunglasses. Do sunglasses cause skin cancer? I did that recently for the podcast. It's. You can start off with that. It's like either, like, so, do sunglasses cause skin cancer? And then go. And, you know, like, maybe you've heard of all these other social media channels or, you know, gurus on various health channels mention that sunglasses cause this issue. But what is the real science of that? Is there scientific validity? Yes or no? So you're kind of teeing up that question, building that curiosity, and at the same time letting people know. That's what the thumbnail and title are. Exactly. What this video is about. Or another one. When the first vitamins came out to help treat eye floaters. I use that one as an example sometimes because I'm like, hey, did you know that there's now a supplement vitamin to help get rid of eye floaters? Well, today we're going to review the research behind this, including some safety information that you'll want to know about before you start taking it. So that kind of tees up. Hey, this is what we're talking about. There's new research, and you want to stay toward the end because we'll talk about the safety measures of who should take this, who shouldn't. I think that's. That's kind of a good way to kind of mix all those strategies.
- [45:20]
A
Yeah, no, that's great. And I think as. As you're talking about this, it's almost like, and I'm curious, actually, before I, Before I make the suggestion to the audience, how much do you use AI and how much are you scripted versus just talking at the camera?
- [45:40]
B
Yeah. So for. Again, I started this in 2018, before we had access to a generative AI to help write and script. So thankfully, I put in the reps years and years before I had access to this technology. So historically, I wrote and did absolutely everything myself. Nowadays, I still do a lot of it, because when I try to use generative AI, it doesn't sound like me. We know that if you try to use AI to, to do research, sometimes it comes up with misinformation. I will use AI now to help me Come up with titles that are more engaging, more will help people be more curious. I actually made my own AI to do just that. I basically fed it several hundreds of videos I found online and other healthcare topics from other creators that I thought like this title caught my attention, this drives emotion in me. And I saved all of those and then trained a new AI based off of those titles. And then I cross referenced two other programs too. But that helps me narrow down at least three titles that would work for a certain topic. And then I try to build content around that because I just know that that carries so much weight nowadays, more than it used to. But when it comes to writing out the videos, I mostly still script it. Not necessarily word for word, but it helps me get my thoughts and how I want to talk out a subject beforehand. Because if I just show up at the day I want to shoot a video and I don't really have a script, then it's just, it's me being super long winded. I don't get to the point fast enough. I'm still like trying to smooth out the edges of how to explain things because a lot of it's honestly I'm talking to consumers so I'm trying to dumb down some things. So it I
- [47:52]
A
the tip I always give clients when I because you know, something is better than nothing at least. And you can tell me if I'm wrong because and I guess keep in the back of your mind that I'm about to ask you about production value and ideal length of video. But what I tell clients all the time is look, if you want to start doing something from a YouTube standpoint, what I think you should do is figure out a topic that you're pretty passionate about or topic that you enjoy talking to patients about and then then maybe even keep a notebook in clinic and just jot down questions that you really enjoyed answering. And after you take those questions, you basically tell you take those questions and you start having conversation with something like Chad GPT or Gemini or whatever and you say listen, I want to make a video on let's call it diabetic retinopathy or dry eye. I want to make a video about dry eye. And it's going to be a 3 minute video to help my patients better understand A B&C IPL, for example. And then I would say something like interview me, ask me five questions, 10 questions, one question at a time to get my perspective on the topic so that you can help me write a better script. I don't think most doctors are great Script writers. But I also think that their intentions can come across better if you have AI listen to them and then say, okay, I'm going to take what you're saying and I would do this in conversation mode and then turn it into a script and then you got a script. And then my other super easy suggestion, which again could be, you could tell me that this is not the best advice. But then I would say, hey, let's put this, let's take that script, put it on a laptop, then it'll use the most basic, you know, teleprompter app you possibly can. And then put your phone in front of the laptop and hit record on your phone at the very least, right? Maybe with some minor editing afterwards. Just make sure you have decent lighting, but put your phone in front of there and then just read the fricking script and in your own voice. And, and at least you've got a, at least you've got your perspective and your, your positioning captured in that script and you're doing something rather than nothing. Because I think most people, like a deer in headlights, end up, end up stopping and not doing anything. And I think doing something is better than nothing. But you tell me if you want to enhance that advice.
- [50:31]
B
I think all of that definitely works great. I think everybody has a different style. I think for me, I actually think a lot of, especially optometry. I think optometrists are very good educators. I think we do get a deer in headlights when the camera turns on. If you can imagine most people even listening or watching. Like we get into a rhythm in clinic. When somebody has astigmatism, you explain astigmatism. Somebody has glaucoma, you have a way to explain glaucoma. You know, you've done this long enough, you know how to do it. If you had a camera on you and did that exact same thing, boom, you're done. It's a perfect video. The hard part is once the camera's on, then we get in our head, we're like, I did it. Didn't say that correctly. Or maybe I need more energy. It's, you know, you start having self doubt and that gets in your way. If you could somehow kill that part of your fear, just turn the camera on and just talk and do it the exact same way you did in front of your other patients that day, it'd be gold. But I do think you're right. Getting something done and just putting in the reps is a great mindset to have because you can always remake A video. You can make a video this week on astigmatism and if it doesn't do so hot, that's great, no problem. You put in the rep that no one else did. Six months from now you can make it again.
- [51:53]
A
Yep, a year from now with a
- [51:54]
B
different title, with a different title, with a different approach, add a little bit more information, come from a different angle. And that was an attitude that I adopted very early on in my journey because I was beating myself up. That first weekend I turned on the camera, I was trying to talk about anti reflectives and sunglasses and I was so angry at myself for messing up and doing 300 retakes of a sentence.
- [52:18]
A
You've been there 100% been there, done that.
- [52:22]
B
But I had in my mindset like I knew I wanted to be a better public speaker and I knew over time I would be better at communicating with my patients by putting in these reps on the weekend, you know, so. And I still have that mindset today. Like I still try to have the I'm in preseason mindset where I want to be in 10 years. So it's even right now I'm putting in just more and more reps to get even to make better content and be a better speaker, a better researcher, a better doctor ten years from now.
- [52:52]
A
Okay, so what are must haves for in this last couple questions? So let's just think about must haves. If I'm going to make video on and if I'm a practice owner, I want to publish some videos or I'm a doctor, I want to publish some videos on YouTube. What's my tech Must haves.
- [53:14]
B
Must have smartphone. If you know most people do have a smartphone nowadays, the cameras on the smartphone are fantastic. I know people who run multi million dollar generating YouTube channels. They do not have a fancy camera. They all they have is a smartphone. A decent light. Like I will say I've bought many, many different lights over the years specifically for making YouTube videos. You can buy cheaper ones but they'll often break or the lighting, the color won't be that great on your skin. I would say if you're going to spend money beyond a smartphone, get good microphone and a decent light. So the one of the microphones that I use now connects to not only my nice cameras but can bluetooth connect to my phone. So if I'm on a on a trip like next week, I'm flying, I can bring my microphones with me and I can still shoot short content for social media for TikTok or Instagram or whatnot. I don't need to bring all my fancy gear. I just need an open window with some decent light and a nice clean background and have the audio and people will be good to go.
- [54:31]
A
Yeah. And then ideal length especially for. We'll call them starter videos. So if I'm, if I'm just building a channel or if I'm trying to get found on Google as my primary sort and secondary is I want to maybe send those videos to my patients to help explain to them and their family members what's the. Right. What's the ideal length?
- [54:58]
B
Yeah, I think if you're just starting off, three to five minutes is great. I think there, there's always people who spitball the. The perfect video length for educational content. And it may hover around like eight minutes. But it depends on the topic. Right. If you have a really complicated topic, then might go a little bit longer. But I know I'm pushing myself as a creator to be less, to go a little bit less in depth. I'm trying to get a little bit more to the point. I'm trying to speed up my content so that I spend less time again even right now being long winded or so that's, that's kind of in my own journey. I'm trying to see how, how can I sharpen this up to keep people's attention a little bit better.
- [55:51]
A
Yeah. All right, last question. I looked at your most popular videos. I think this is right. Your most popular video is about eye bags. Your second most popular video is about contact lenses for beginners. Then your third most popular video is about how to take out contact lenses. So useful. How to. And then we've got a variety of castor oil and glasses cleaning secrets and astigmatism and eye floaters. Any kind of comments on why specifically some of these videos exploded and did anything surprise you?
- [56:30]
B
So yeah, so first, all those different videos had success for different reasons. So there's different strategies behind different videos based on the topics and everything. So the first one, eyebags, again, like I said at the beginning, very much people's vanity and that as a topic has a high search volume and so it can be very, very trendy. And so that video, I did a lot of research in the back end of like how do I hit directly to the heart that people are looking for, what information people are looking for, what search for SEO, search engine optimization works really well and that, that's why that video did so well. The contact lens videos, insertion removal, all of that different perspective, it's not a viral type of video content. It's a slow roll and slow rolling boil strategy. Knowing that a lot of people are searching for an explainer video like that. Before that video, the only other videos online were like by a 14 year old trying to show you how to put in contacts in their basement. And so it was kind of from that perspective, okay, let's do this at a high level that's professional, that people can use and eye clinics might want to use to help train their new contact lens wearers how to put them in and take them out. So I did it from that perspective and I launched them. What people don't see, if you went really back, you would see that I released them in reverse order. The first video was how to take them out or how to clean them and then the second one was how to take them out and then the, then the next one that came out was how to put them in. Because I didn't want people to put them in and then be like, what do I do now?
- [58:17]
A
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
- [58:19]
B
Yeah. But that video, those put the sun, put the contact lenses videos in, those are still getting thousands of views every day, you know, and every single day, which has been been fantastic as a brand builder over time. The last one you mentioned, castor oil, we've done a few videos on that and that. So I'll be honest, when I first made the castor oil video a few years ago, I didn't think it was going to do well. And the reason why is because another eye doctor creator, they made a video on castor oil and it didn't. It only got like a few thousand views. And I think it really goes back to again how it's packaged. It was the thumbnail, it was the title and then the first few seconds of the video really solidified like who I'm talking to and why. It raised a lot of questions of like I've seen a lot of this stuff online. Is there any truth to it? I learned a lot as a doctor who read the research. Let's read break it down. And that has caught a lot of viral attention as various natural products online. People have been trying to look for something and people are interested in it. So I think that's again a different viral perspective, different strategy. But I think it does go back to how it's packaged.
- [59:51]
A
Right. And I think the intentionality is like such so impressive because it just, I just, I think it. And maybe you could top off this final point here is that if you're going to do something. Do it with thought, with planning, with intentionality, and understand what your larger, bigger picture strategy is. Don't just slap something together and hope it works, because then it won't work. And then you'll get frustrated and then you'll be like, I'm never going to do this again.
- [60:22]
B
Yeah. No, 100% that doing it with intentionality is what you need to do. I spend so much more time strategizing before I even turn on the camera. Just about who I'm talking to, who's gonna watch this video, what their motivation to watch this video is, so I can address that. Before you were kind of mentioning some tips of like how to make content and to shoot it. Another strategy I've used to know, what do I need to cover in this video? Whatever your title is, imagine yourself not being an eye care provider reading that title. What are the top five questions that come to mind? Right. And write down those five questions. Make sure you answer the first, the three most important ones. If you can answer those three most important questions that somebody would ask just from reading the title, then you probably are going to be making good content. And then you could maybe somehow squeeze in the two other questions somewhere else as bonus. And you'll be set.
- [61:34]
A
Yeah. And you're an inspiration. Congratulations on all of your success. I hope to talk to you again in the future because I imagine I'm going to get a bunch of questions that people have for you that I didn't ask you. And then I'm looking forward to bringing you back to the. To the show. But we're out of time today. Amazing conversation. Joey, thank you so much for your contribution, Everything that you do.
- [61:56]
B
Hey, thank you. I appreciate it.