← Have A Seat with Chris Hansen
Have A Seat with Chris Hansen
Callahan Walsh: The New Threats Facing Children Online | Have A Seat
00:44:27
Loading summary
Transcript56 lines
- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook.
- [00:31]
Commercial Announcer
The Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.
- [00:36]
Narrator/Advertiser
There are three victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late twenties. Female. Serial killers kill for power, control. I believe there is a deeper motivation here.
- [00:46]
Chris Hansen
You have no idea who you're dealing with and you are going to end up dead.
- [00:51]
Narrator/Advertiser
I've been waiting for you.
- [00:53]
Commercial Announcer
Watch the Hulu Original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney. For monthly subscribers. Terms apply.
- [01:10]
Chris Hansen
I've worked with a lot of organizations and will always work with organizations which try to promote safety for children online and anywhere else. But the most preeminent, the preeminent organization in the world today is the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. And you probably know this if you follow any of my work that we promote on social media, whether it's a takedown Predator investigation or any of the documentaries involving Roblox and things like that, I always tag ncmec. Now, NCMEC does a lot of different things. It was born out of tragedy. In the early 80s, Adam Walsh, as you may know, was kidnapped, a young boy. His parents, John Walsh and Rivi Walsh, started this organization to help protect kids and now their son. And my friend Callahan Walsh is the executive director. And I have so much I want to talk to him about and so much you need to know and be updated about in terms of child safety online and what NCMEC does. Callahan Walsh, thank you for having a seat with me.
- [02:12]
Callahan Walsh
Hey, Chris, good to see you again, buddy. Thanks for having me.
- [02:15]
Chris Hansen
Good to see you, man. My pleasure. We see and have seen a lot, especially recently from Meta and other big tech corporations about child safety and what the responsibility of these platforms is. And one of the things these platforms are mandated to do is report to NCMEC when they detect the transmission of inappropriate material from adults to children or detect a communication from an adult to a child, then NCMEC gets that information and sends it to the appropriate law enforcement agency for investigation. And I've been on the inside a lot of these investigations. It works remarkably well. But I guess the question to you is when you see these companies make these promises, is it enough? And what more should they be doing? Callahan?
- [03:08]
Callahan Walsh
You know, there's, there's always room for improvement, right, in anything that we do. And there's certainly plenty of room for improvement in the way these companies are reporting to us. Thankfully, we've been moving that ball forward and forward over the years. You know, we created the cyber tip line here at the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. That's the reporting mechanism for these ISPs, these social media platforms, and even the public to make reports to us. Unfortunately, we're seeing reports in the millions. 36 million reports two years ago, 20, 22, over 22 the year before or the, the year after. These are numbers that are unacceptable. You know, we know these platforms don't want these issues there. They don't want this happening on their platform. And they are trying to make strides and guidelines and parental controls and things like that. So there are steps and incremental steps over time that have taken place, but we're still seeing exploitation on these platforms. That's just the bottom line. It's unfortunate. We try to make sure that, you know, we're, we're trying to put ourselves out of a job. We want to make sure that these platforms are secure and safe for children online, that we know that there's no exploitation happening on them. Unfortunately, we're just, we're not there yet. These things still exist in this day. We know children are being targeted at alarming numbers for many different reasons. It's grooming, l luring, online enticement, sextortion, financial sextortion, sex trafficking, you name it. A predator online will use the Internet, the anonymity of the Internet, stay anonymous behind that keyboard and that screen, and use these social media platforms as private hunting preserves to prey on children. And for them, these guys are tech savvy. You know, when, when something comes out, they, they look for a workaround if there's something else, a new parental control or something like that. They try to find ways to circumvent that and to target kids. And as you've pointed out very clearly, these predators will go to where the children are. Roblox, for example, a platform, we know, a gaming platform that millions of children play from around the world. And of course, that's where the predators
- [05:21]
Chris Hansen
are going to go.
- [05:21]
Callahan Walsh
They're going to meet children where the children are. And so we see these types of, you know, exploitation happening. Oftentimes that first conversation will happen there on the gaming platform, but maybe Move to another platform from maybe more anonymous chatting. But we're seeing kids being targeted on these platforms, which just as a parent myself, you know, it's, it's scary. We just, we can't raise our children the same way our parents raised us. We live in a digital era and the Internet has created life for the better in so many ways, but created so many new ways to harm our kids.
- [05:56]
Chris Hansen
It seems to me, and admittedly I'm a skeptic when it comes to this sort of thing, but it seems to me, Callahan, that, that Congress gets upset. There's this cry for action. The heads of these companies are herded into D.C. they appear before a Senate committee or a congressional committee and they make big promises to do better. And in the ensuing six months, the lobbyists get in there and, and they water down this legislation and it may get passed, it may get altered, whatever, but it's an incremental process. And it doesn't seem to me that it has to be. It seems to me that somebody's got to get tough with these companies and say, look, we're going to do this or you need to do this, otherwise we're just going to not allow kids on your platforms until they're 16 years old. Is that what it's going to take?
- [06:46]
Callahan Walsh
You know, I, I agree. Look, I mean, these are for profit companies and they're going to do anything that they can do in their power to continue revenue stream. And if it's sometimes circumventing the, the opinions and, and the recommendations from organizations like the national center or from Congress, they're going to do just that. They're going to placate the situation, do just enough to let that, that uproar die down. And then where are the kids? Are the kids safe at that point? Not, not always. You know, are there some good things that come out of these, these various pieces of legislation? Absolutely. We are moving forward, I would say not necessarily backward in that space, but you're absolutely right. These companies, we'd have to hold their feet to the fire. They have to be held accountable for these injustices that happen to children on their platforms.
- [07:37]
Chris Hansen
You talk about Roblox, and we finished up a big documentary on Roblox, an investigation into predators using the platform to exploit children. And in fact, we've now moved on to another episode of that investigation because there's so much of this going on, especially when it comes to 764, the nihilist terrorist group that operates and does horrible things to children. But Roblox has Settled a number of these cases with attorneys general across the country. They pay out 10 or 15 million dollars. They enter into some sort of agreement and they move on. It seems like chump changed that company, which is a multi, multi million, multi billion billion dollar company. And it appears, at least to me, and I've lived in this world for a year now, that they're trying to buy their way out of this without making meaningful change. And I think one of the most telling things is that for instance, Roblox will not allow law enforcement to use its platform to conduct investigations. And my question, and I wonder what, how you feel about this. Is it, what's the harm in doing that? And would appear that maybe it's because it might limit engagement. And anything that limits engagement limits profits for a company like Roblox.
- [09:00]
Callahan Walsh
Yeah, absolutely. I mean it's always follow the money, right? And these companies, as, as mentioned, they're, they're for profit. That's, that's what they're intended, you know, that's the reason they were created in the first place. And so we know that, you know, they look at it as just the cost of doing business, that okay, we'll get some fines here, we may have to pay out some settlements, but in the long term we'll make more money if we don't do these drastic changes and pay out these little amounts because we're raking so much money in. And they don't want to lose their status, the number of concurrent players that are on their platform. They want to keep that high. They want to show investors how many, you know, users are on line at any one time and show that, you know, people are, you know, buying items through the in game stores. They don't want the engagement to go down. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. And again, I, I think they look at it as just the cost of doing business. If we can pay out, let's say, you know, it cost us $10 million over the course of this year in fines and, and lawsuits, but we made $30 million. Hey, we still, there's still, you know, a profitable business. And I think unfortunately a lot of these platforms look at it that way.
- [10:16]
Chris Hansen
In your opinion, what makes a platform like Roblox so dangerous? I mean, obviously children as young as five can play on this thing. Parents and grandparents look at it as if it's some developmental game using characters that look like LEGO characters. It appears harmless. They have age verification and facial recognition features. They have, they have been implemented in the last year or so. All of which can be circumvented by a smart kid or a smart predator. But what is it that makes it so different? Is it the appearance of maybe being safe, but in actuality, as you say, being a hunting ground for predators? Or, you know, can these problems be fixed with. With tax fixes by the company, or is it just such a big global problem that it's up to the parents to say, look, you're not playing this till you're a certain age?
- [11:07]
Callahan Walsh
Yeah, look, I think it's a holistic approach. I think it's the proper protocols and safety measures on the platform. It's parents understanding the technology the best they can and making those decisions for their children and using parental controls and being on top of that. And then it's also about empowering the child to make safe and smart decisions as well. You know, a parent can't track down every child's digital breadcrumb trail. Look, you know, we live in the real world. There's soccer practice we have to go to and cook dinner and get the beds, you know, get the kids to bed on time. And it can be difficult, especially because of that knowledge gap can be so severe. You know, we have some parents who maybe didn't necessarily grow up with a lot of Internet experience or aren't as tech savvy. I mean, these children can, you know, run. Look, you put an iPhone in a, in a little kid's hand, and they're already figuring it out. You know, these kids can run circles oftentimes around their parents on the, their ability to. To navigate these. These platforms. And so it really is about making sure there's, you know, protocols in place on the platform itself, having parents understand the technology, setting ground rules, making sure that they stick to them. You know, I understand that it's difficult for some parents, but the best way to figure out how a gaming platform or social media platform works that your child is on is you sign up for yourself, get on there, play with your child, see how it works, understand the features. You know, Roblox has communication features that parents may not always about. As you said, it looks like a very, you know, childlike game. And so there's this innocence factor to it. But the predators know that's where the kids are, and that's where they know that they can groom and lure children from those platforms. They can gain their trust. They can manipulate these children in believing that they have a real friendship or a real romantic relationship. And, you know, they'll target kids that may not be getting the right attention at Home or are susceptible to these types of abuses, which is horrible. And then we have parents who just, there's no oversight. You know, we, we again, a parent can't be over the shoulder of a kid, making sure that they choose every right decision down that path of yes, talk to this person, no, talk to that person. But parents should still be monitoring, making sure that you know who your children are talking to, that you know what platform they're using, that you know, you know that the gaming console is only played in the living room, not in the bedroom at night, away from, you know, parents oversight. Make sure you know that these pieces are in place, that these safety protocols are understood by your child. You know, having conversations with your kid is, is so important about safe and smart decision making. You know, you want to empower your child to be able to navigate those on online waters safely. Because oftentimes if some predator were to communicate with them, it's, it's really the first line is the child, whether they're going to communicate back or not. And if we can stop that from the beginning and empower children to say, hey, I know I'm not supposed to talk to, you know, people online. Look, we know so many kids know stranger danger and making sure they don't talk to strangers, you know, in the real world and how dangerous that can be. But they don't have that sense when it comes to online communication. And they're fooled very easily. Look, I mean, they're children we're talking about, their brains are not fully developed. We see adults being catfished and scammed online all the time. So if it happened to them, of course it can happen to children as well. And so, you know, these platforms, you know, parents just have to be aware, they have to know which gaming platforms their children are playing, what features they have, and also be having these regular, ongoing conversations about safety. It has to start early. You know, when children are young, when they're first starting to get online, those conversations need to be, you know, not fear based. They need to be, you know, easily understood and easily remembered. But of course, as that child gets older, that conversation needs to mature as well too. You know, we know children, you know, in their teens know about sexting and sending nudes. They see their older brothers and sisters doing it, maybe their favorite celebrities doing it. And you know, it's a conversation for every parent to have with their kids again, starting from that early age and ongoing as they get older, because, you know, it's not going away. The Internet is here to stay. You know, kids are doing their homework online, taking tests online. And it really would be a disadvantage if you held back a child, you know, didn't allow them to go online until they were 18 years old. That would really be holding a child back in this day and age when they're trying to get a job or trying to get into college. And they've never been online, never used a computer. So we want to make sure children are using these tools safely, that parents are empowering their children with safe and smart decision making. And the national center has created great resources. We have netsmarts program that's aimed directly at parents, children, caregivers and teachers to make sure that children know these rules. We have Internet safety rules. There's into the Cloud, which is a great animated series featuring two children, animated kids that through different situations and scenarios learn how to make these safe and smart decisions online. We also have conversation starters. We know it's not always easy for a parent special when that knowledge gap is so severe. We know that it can be difficult for parents to have that talk. And so we want to do everything that we can in our power to provide them with the resources that they can have those conversations, that children can understand these risks online. And all the resources we have through our netsmarts program or anything that we do at the national center, it's all free for parents, all free for community leaders, caregivers, educators, you name it. Everything we do is free for the public.
- [16:57]
Chris Hansen
If you're a homeowner in America, you need to listen to this. The FBI has been warning about a type of real estate fraud on the rise called title theft. And your equity is the target. Here's how it works. Criminals forge your signature on a single document, use a fake notary stamp and file it with the county. And just like that, on record. They own your home using your ownership. And they can take out loans against your equity or even sell your property. And you won't know about it until foreclosure or collection notices show up in the mail. That's why I've partnered with Home Title Lock so you can protect your equity. And find out today if you're already a victim, use my promo code. Hansen H a N S e n@hometitlelock.com and you'll get a free title history report and a free trial of their million dollar triple lock protection. That's 24,7 monitoring of your title records, urgent alerts to any changes. And if fraud occurs, their US based restoration team will spend up to $1 million to fix it. Don't be a victim. Protect your Equity today. That's hometitleock.com promo code Hanson H A N S E N Or use the link below.
- [18:21]
Commercial Announcer
The Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus.
- [18:26]
Narrator/Advertiser
There are three victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late twenties.
- [18:31]
Chris Hansen
Female.
- [18:31]
Narrator/Advertiser
Serial killers kill for power, control. I believe there's a deeper motivation here.
- [18:36]
Chris Hansen
You have no idea who you're dealing with and you are gonna end up dead.
- [18:41]
Narrator/Advertiser
I've been waiting for you.
- [18:43]
Commercial Announcer
Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for monthly subscribers, terms apply.
- [18:50]
Chris Hansen
I think that's a fantastic start for any parent, whether it's extortion or trying to get some of these images taken down. And we're gonna get into all that in a minute. We're gonna post all those contacts in our story notes for this episode. But we had a parent reach out to us. Callahan. During the Dangerous Games Roblox investigation, a woman in Texas who actually found that her husband was grooming a child on Roblox, as it happens in California, she actually launched her own investigation, identified the girl, contacted the mother, gave the information, the text to local police, went above and beyond. You know, as always say, if you want something done, find a college girl or a housewife to get it done. Because they know how to multitask and actually made this case. The husband was arrested here. But not every parent is a superhero. Not every parent has the ability to dig into all these different social media platforms and solve the case for police. So it is important for folks to have a place to go and get these questions answered. And also, I think it's a matter of starting the conversation and letting your child know that, look, we know you're only 13, 14, 15. We know that mistakes can happen. But don't hide it. If you make a mistake, come to me as a parent and together we'll solve it. We'll figure it out. But you see these extortion cases that turn into suicides, and I've sat across from, you know, a number of parents who've lost children. It's heartbreaking to think that this kid couldn't get through a 15 minute crisis and killed himself because he was worried that grandma was going to see a sexually explicit picture of him on a social media platform.
- [20:43]
Callahan Walsh
Yeah. It just goes to show the shame and guilt that these children face once they understand that they've been targeted, that they're a victim. And it's sad. We've seen over A dozen of these young boys commit suicide in the last year who were all victims of financial sextortion. And for those that are a bit unaware, you know, sextortion was something that we were seeing quite a few years ago, but it was individual child predators typically targeting young girls, gaining their trust, coercing them into taking a nude image and then blackmailing them for more explicit content and usually ramping up the explicit nature of those requests. Then we started to see a shift, a little change. We started seeing young boys being targeted and a lot of times on these gaming platforms, but this was happening much quicker. Where in previous when we saw these young girls being targeted, that manipulation oftentimes took quite a bit of time for that exploiter to gain the trust of these, of these girls. But for the boys, this was happening in a matter of just a few hours. And what typical scenario looked like was the boys would be messaged by this predator. The predator would be pretending that they were also, you know, the similar aged but usually opposite sex individual. So a young girl, they would scrape an image offline somewhere of a young girl nude and send that image to the boy and saying, you know, look, I've shown you mine, now you show me yours. And a picture comes across to the predator of that young boy and immediately they flip the script. They tell them exactly who they are, that they are not that young girl and they are demanding X amount of money or they're going to show their entire school this image. They're going to message every football player on the football team that that young boy is on there. They know the parents, Facebook pages and we'll send it to the parents. And so the shame and the guilt that these young boys have drives them to either fulfill the request of sending gift cards or money transfer wires, what have you, or they in some of these cases have, have committed suicide. Which is horrible, horrible because this is not a mental health issue. These weren't kids who were suicidal just four hours ago. They were driven to this outcome in a very short period of time. From what we're seeing, oftentimes criminals and even criminal enterprises from overseas conducting these types of, of, of exploitations because they've been scamming adults for years and have realized that children in the west have access to finances and it's just another day in the office for these sextortion scammers. You know, get in the seat, try to contact a child in the west, manipulate them into sending money and you know, whatever happens after that, you know, they're on to the next anyway. They're not thinking about it. And it's unfortunate because a lot of times these predators are in countries where we don't have extradition treaties. And so for an apprehension, it can be very difficult. But it has happened. We've, we've gotten, you know, we've been able to extradite people from all over the world back to the United States who are preying on our kids. But it's difficult. We live in, in this, you know, multi international world where our laws don't apply everywhere else. You know, we have countries that don't have any type of child exploitation laws on their books. And so you have a predator in that country. And we're telling them, hey, this guy's doing X, Y and Z. And that country says, hey, not, not much we can do about it. We don't even have laws that, that would guide us in how to prosecute that type of individual. So, you know, these types of abuses are, are something that all parents need to know about. It can happen to any child. When you're allowing your child online, you're opening them up to the world. And we don't just hand over the car keys to a child on their 16th birthday and say, hey, good luck. Hopefully you don't get hit or hit anybody. No, we, they have their learning period with their permit. They have driving schools that they go to. They drive with the parent for a good portion of time before they get their license. You know, those still, those same tactics should still be applied to children online. We shouldn't just hand over a laptop or a cell phone to a kid and say, hey, you know, good luck, hope you stay safe. Because that's honestly what's happening with a lot of kids. They get their, their first cell phone. In the United States, the average age for a child to receive their first cell phone is old. And so, you know, with that, those kids are already tech savvy. They already know how to use the device. They get that in their hands and they're off running. So there needs to be oversight from parents and there needs to be those ongoing conversations that we talked about. You know, with safety in mind.
- [25:33]
Chris Hansen
Do the CEOs of some of these companies, David Buzzucki of Roblox or Mark Zuckerberg of Meta, did they ever reach out to NCMEC and say, hey, help us. You guys are experts in this world. Obviously we're experts on the tech side. What can we do better? Do they ever reach out? Do they ever contact you guys?
- [25:53]
Callahan Walsh
You know, should they? They should, absolutely. They should I, I, we'd love to have Mark come in and take a tour of the national center and sit down with our Cyber Tip lunch.
- [26:03]
Chris Hansen
It's shocking to me that he hasn't,
- [26:04]
Callahan Walsh
quite honestly you would think he would. But you know, we, they do send others, right? We do have, you know, these, these groups in for tours and to understand the processes and closed door communications and conversations to make sure that, hey, you know what's happening. You know, we'll tell you what we're seeing. They know what's happening on their platform better than anybody else.
- [26:24]
Chris Hansen
They see it in real time.
- [26:26]
Callahan Walsh
Absolutely. But you know, we know they don't want these things happening on their platform. They're trying to juggle all the shareholders requests and their board's requests and the money could continue to flow in and quarterly projections to continue to rise. But they truly, deep down, you know, in my heart, I, I, I truly believe they don't really want these things happening on their platform. They're just looking for a way to try to do what they can to mitigate it to some degree while also not losing the revenue on one hand and pissing off shareholders and stockholders and whatnot. And you also have your civil liberty folks who are involved too, that say, you know, there shouldn't be oversight at all on these platforms. That, that there shouldn't be, you know, any type of monitoring or, you know, we don't want the government reading our emails. Trust me, we're not reading your emails. You know that. We're, we're doing it in a way that protects people's privacy but also makes sure children aren't being exploited at the same time.
- [27:30]
Chris Hansen
You know, one of the most vexing things, to me at least, and one of the most troubling out of a lot of troubling things happening on these platforms is, is this. 7, 6, 4. I mean, the people involved in this in Callahan are just pure evil. They're trying to get kids to commit suicide for the sake of committing suicide. They tell kids that if they, they commit their suicide attempt live, they'll be able to get away from their parents. The, they'll be put in a psych war. They'll be able to be their own person. They won't have to worry about parental interference on any level of their life. I mean, how do you combat a group like that that is just pure, unmitigated evil and that's all they want to do, is disrupt society. They're nihilistic. You know, I know that there was a guy who started this over in the uk and they can trace it back to him and another guy in Texas who started it. But it has taken off in a very frightening way. It's, it's, it's like spontaneous combustion.
- [28:34]
Callahan Walsh
Yeah. It's so unfortunate to see exploitation evolve to be even more gratuitous than it has been in the past. We saw sextortion, as I mentioned, transfer from, you know, these young girls being targeted to boys being targeted in a, in a much more, you know, direct way. And we're seeing this what we call sadistic online exploitation. So we, it, it's, it's, it's something the average person never wants to think about, never wants to see. The, the requests and what these individuals are asking for or asking these children to do online is, it's heartbreaking and it's, it goes against every moral fiber in my body that, that somebody out there could ask a young child to commit a sex act with a household pet and film that and send that online or harm a young sibling. These, these types of requests. I mean, sadistic is, is the perfect word for it. And it's something that the national center is, is looking into very seriously at the moment, looking at these individual groups that are responsible, trying to really understand and analyze what's happening and where these are coming from, because it does seem like it kind of really ramped up over the last year and it's growing. It's unfortunate that it's growing and we need to be able to, to combat what's happening out there. These, these individuals that are asking children to, to commit these atrocities need to be held accountable, they need to be put away. They need to be, you know, as far from any other child as humanly possible. And we have to, as an organization who partners with many other NGOs, partners with many other federal agencies and local and state law enforcement have to come together and make sure that these individuals, these sick, sadistic individuals are held accountable, that they're found and they're prosecuted because, and made an example of. You know, that's what's been so important with, with legislation that we've tried to enact at the national center and have been successful in including the, the Adam Walsh. The Adam Walsh act, which was one of the most comprehensive pieces of legislation, is to make sure that the punishment for these individuals fits the crime. Because we've seen, you know, so many times where guys commit some, you know, white collar crime as, you know, and go to jail for a lot of time for money that was already insured. Nobody was really harmed. And then somebody who sexually assaults a young child goes to jail and spends much less time in jail. Like, how does that make sense? And so making sure that the penalties for this type of behavior are strict so that the sentencing can be severe in hopes that that, you know, will help prevent anyone out there who thinks that they might want to do something like this from actually doing it in the first place.
- [31:45]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Find more on Facebook.
- [32:15]
Commercial Announcer
The Hulu original series Furious now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus.
- [32:21]
Narrator/Advertiser
There are three victims we know of. The suspect is female, white, late twenties. Female serial killers kill for power, control. I believe there is a deeper motivation here.
- [32:31]
Chris Hansen
You have no idea who you're dealing with and you are going to end up dead.
- [32:36]
Narrator/Advertiser
I've been waiting for you.
- [32:38]
Commercial Announcer
Watch the Hulu original series Furious now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for Monet subscribers. Terms apply.
- [32:45]
Chris Hansen
To me, the sentencing part of this is, is a no brainer and it's, but it's also one of the most frustrating things that I see in these investigations. We may see somebody get life in prison after being arrested in a Florida predator sting and then in another state maybe probation with having to register as a sex offender. Now I understand the reality of laws in a first time offender and in a case where there's no child pornography and no real victim. But if we weren't there and a child was there, there would have been without question the exploitation of a child. And to see some of these guys get probation and especially when they show up in a subsequent sting and we've seen that too frequently, it's offensive to me that some of these guys are getting probation in these cases. We had one recently in Louisiana where a guy was a doctor and he was here legally from Pakistan and he came to exploit a teenage girl and you see him walk in and give the hug and everything else. And they did a great job in the investigation. The case was tight as a drum and yet an assistant prosecutor allowed him to self deport without any guilty plea. Now he can go be a doctor back in Pakistan and at some point probably matriculate his way back into the US and do that again if he wants to. And it's shocking to me that any district attorney's office, any prosecutor in America would allow that to happen.
- [34:19]
Callahan Walsh
Yeah, that prosecutor let that, that child down and is letting down every other child that that predator may be harming in the future. We know, you know, these guys will, will prey on children and do it over and over again, as you mentioned. You know, they get caught in one sting or out and then get caught in another. Unfortunately, what they're also doing is learning how to not get caught. They're learning how to, to be a little more secretive in, in these engagements. And if you're letting somebody ride out just with a slap on the wrist, what's stopping them from doing it? Again, not much, because they think they're going to just get another slap on the wrist. And so the, the sentencing needs to be severe. It needs to, you know, meet the, the type of crime it really is. You know, my opinion is when you harming a child, you've lost your ability to, to be on this, on this earth with, with the rest of us, at least out and about. If you've proven that you harm women and children, you've lost your right to exist out in society and function out in society. And so, you know, again, we see time and time again guys, and because the, the laws aren't, you know, ubiquitous across the country, it's not the same in every state. We live in a country with 50 small countries and, and, and laws are different across the US and so we do see some states that are doing a great job that take these cases very, very seriously when it comes to the sentencing side of things and others that aren't so great. And we know predators are one step ahead of laws and legislature. They're tech savvy. They're trying to do everything they can to not get caught. And when you have individuals out there that go light on the sentencing, it just makes it even more enticing for them to continue what they're doing because they're not getting punished the way that they, it's so unfortunate. It really is.
- [36:17]
Chris Hansen
So what can parents do? What resources can they get from the national center for Missing and Exploited Children when it comes to initiating the conversation, which to me is the hard part for many parents and to take action and be proactive. Should one of your children, for instance, put an image out there, or even if they put an innocent image out there, that through AI gets turned into something that is sexually Explicit. What can they do? Where do they start with ncmec? Where do they get going?
- [36:51]
Callahan Walsh
Sure. So as far as prevention education, our netsmarts program is fantastic for kids. It's got an animated series, it has video games, all sorts of different activities and resources that we provide through the netsmarts program. We also have resources for parents as well too. Those conversation starters, even full presentations that they can bring to a PTA meeting or a parent group. And we have all different categories for different age groups. Educators can use these presentations. They've got videos throughout them. It's not death by PowerPoint. And even for our teens, we have older resources. Everything we do is age appropriate. So for the younger kids it's easier and simpler messaging, the cartoon based stuff. And then for our older kids, we have things like our no Escape Room, which is sort of an over the shoulder look of what, what it's like to be a victim of sextortion. But we also have resources for parents once something's already happened, you know, and I think that's what's so important because there's a lot of organizations out there and we do it as well too. You know, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. But oftentimes as a parent or law enforcement or a teacher, we don't find out about these things until it's already happened. And so what do you do at that point? So we have a great resource. One of them is called I sent a Sext now what? And that's for parents and kids to say. It's sort of a checklist of all the things that you should be doing once that sexually explicit image is out there. You know, we know children, you know, get into relationships in high school. We know high school relationships typically don't last. And maybe they sent an image to a boyfriend that's no longer their boyfriend, or sent an image to somebody that they thought they could trust, that they found out they cannot trust that individual. We have a tool called Take It Down. That's incredible. It's one of a kind. Individuals can come to our website and use the Take it down tool. And right on their phone, if they have the images that they've sent to somebody that they fear may find their way online on some platform somewhere on a social media site or image hosting site, they can go on their phone using our tool, select those images. We will create what's called a hash value. It's a string, unique string of numbers and letters that's sort of like a digital fingerprint. For that image, we'll get that hash value. We will not receive the image. We're not. You cannot recreate the image with that hash value either. And we don't actually even need to know the information of that child. We don't need or young adult. We don't need to know their name or where they're from. They just click on the images that they think might end up on a platform somewhere. We will hash those images. And then what we do with all of the images of child sexual abuse material that come into the national center that we analyze, we hash all those images as well, too, and regularly are creating databases for, you know, these social media platforms to use these images, hash values to detect. If any of these known images of child sexual abuse material cross their platform, their systems can identify them right away, can take it down, can flag it, and create an automatic report that's sent to the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. And so that's what we're essentially doing with the images that that child or young adult may have on their phone. Now, Take it down works only within the. The platforms that have opted in, But I'd like to say that mostly all the major platforms are involved in Take It Down. You can go to the national center for Missing Exploited Children's website and look at the program and see which platforms are involved right there. And that prevents that image from going up on those platforms and being seen by potentially millions and millions of people. We've told children forever that once you send that image, it's on the Internet forever. And that's still true in certain sense. But this is a tool that's starting to change that. This is a tool that's starting to turn the tides in the victims, you know, in these children's favors in allowing them to. To take their life back. Because these images oftentimes, once they're out there, will follow that child around, whether it's getting a job, getting into college, or future romantic relationships. That could be detrimental if these images are out there floating around of them, you know, in a sexually explicit nature. And so this is a way for victims who have already sent that image that want to protect themselves and make sure that it isn't going up on, say, Facebook or Twitter, that they can make sure that these images are captured and taken down immediately.
- [41:34]
Chris Hansen
And I think it's critical, too, that there is something proactive that parents and children can do when it comes to this, because there's this feeling of frustration and being defeated. And I think that's part of the, the, the psychology that leads to, you know, self destruction and potentially self harm and suicide in these cases, too. So I think it's fantastic.
- [41:56]
Callahan Walsh
Absolutely. And law enforcement is taking it more seriously now than ever before as well. You know, I mean, in, in the early days, these, these crimes that happen online, it was difficult for a regular police officer.
- [42:05]
Chris Hansen
No, they didn't know how to handle it. They'd say, okay, when we get 10 cases like this, we'll send it to the FBI. But I tell parents this all the time. If you've got a case, you march into the local police department, and I can almost guarantee that they will have some sort of a task force or a connection with icac and they, they're excited to get involved in it. Now. I've seen a sea change in the last 10, 15 years. So. Callahan, Wash, I appreciate you taking time for me. Are we going to see another season of America's Most Wanted?
- [42:32]
Callahan Walsh
I hope so. My dad and I are ready to saddle back up and get out there and take down some more bad guys and. Yeah, hopefully right around the corner.
- [42:39]
Chris Hansen
All right, we appreciate that very much. We'll stay in touch. We'll speak with you soon. Callahan Walsh, the executive director of the national center for Missing and Exploited Children. Thanks for having a seat with me and we'll talk to you soon.
- [42:51]
Callahan Walsh
Hey, thanks, Chris. Really appreciate it.
- [42:52]
Chris Hansen
Appreciate you. All right, thank you for joining me again for another episode. I will see you here next Wednesday. On Mondays, we drop another episode of Predators I've Caught, which will bring you up to date on the guys you've seen on my streaming network, True Blue. Those episodes take down drop every single Thursday. Until then, I'll be watching and listening.
- [43:29]
Goldbelly Advertiser
Hey, guys, Finding the perfect gift for the food lover in your life is easy thanks to Gold Belly. Gold Belly ships America's most iconic foods straight from world famous restaurants right to your door. So if you want to treat someone to Joe's Stone Crab from Miami, Franklin Barbecue from Texas, or desserts from famous foodies like Ina Garten or Martha Stewart, Goldbelly has you covered. Just go to goldbelly.com and for a limited time, get 20% off your first order with promo code gift. That's promo code gift.
- [43:56]
Callahan Walsh
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that that's very illegal. So There goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
- [44:18]
Narrator/Advertiser
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.