The Epstein Case Is Far From Over | Andrew Lownie | Have A Seat

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Epstein Case Is Far From Over

Podcast: Have A Seat with Chris Hansen
Episode: The Epstein Case Is Far From Over | Andrew Lownie
Date: June 3, 2026
Guest: Andrew Lownie, British author and Epstein affair expert

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Overview

Chris Hansen welcomes back Epstein expert Andrew Lownie to provide an update on the continually-unfolding aftermath of Jeffrey Epstein’s crimes and the mounting legal and personal woes facing former Prince Andrew and others in his circle. With recent arrests of high-profile British figures and new victims coming forward in both the UK and France, Hansen and Lownie discuss the surprising escalation of investigations, the state of cover-ups, the international scope of the Epstein saga, and dark allegations emerging from the infamous New Mexico ranch.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. UK Investigations Escalate

• Major New Developments:

  • Within hours of Lownie’s last appearance, police arrested figures such as former Prince Andrew and Peter Mandelson due to newly-surfaced Epstein connections. [00:42]

  • New victims in Surrey, England, whose cases stem from the Epstein files, are now the focus of active police investigations. [01:25]

    “Things are beginning to happen. Seeing some of the things that were released in the Epstein files are now beginning to be shown as investigations, which I never thought would happen.”
    —Andrew Lownie [01:12]

• Victims Naming Andrew as Perpetrator:

  • Lownie confirms the victims have identified Andrew, with police finally treating their claims as serious. [01:47]

2. Shifting Attitudes and Accountability

• Changing Calculus within the Royal Family:

  • Lownie describes a long-assumed “cover up” finally breaking.

  • Andrew, formerly “very cocky,” reportedly “obsessed with minor details about his new home” but now facing the real threat of legal consequences. [02:31]

    “He thought he wouldn’t be charged. … If this is the case, the law is taking its course and that’s not something we expect.”
    —Andrew Lownie [02:31]

• Sarah Ferguson and the Daughters:

  • Sarah Ferguson is reportedly no longer loyal to Andrew, seeking to protect herself even if it means incriminating her ex-husband. [06:27]
  • Royal family seems poised to distance themselves from Andrew’s children as well.

3. The Role of King Charles

• Royal Tension and Responsibility:

  • Hansen points to King Charles’s exhaustion with the scandal, suggesting Charles would sanction Andrew going to prison to protect the bloodline. [07:12]

  • Lownie details the “mutual jealousy” and lack of closeness between Charles and Andrew and hints at possible abdication, with William ready to step in. [07:43, 09:55]

    “Charles has known about this for a long time and he’s turned a blind eye. … He has to accept responsibility.”
    —Andrew Lownie [09:21]

• Possible Royal Succession Shakeup:

  • Rumors swirl of William stepping in as king if the pressure becomes too great for Charles. [09:55]

4. International Victims and the Scope of Abuse

• New Victims in France:

  • At least 20 women have come forward in France, half unknown to investigators previously. [04:12]
  • Lownie has collected "about 200,000 words" from dozens of informants, strengthening and broadening the case. [04:36]

• Truth-Telling and Deal-Making:

  • Some key figures (e.g., Nadia Marchenko, Sarah Kellen) may be cooperating with authorities to minimize sentences, in exchange for testimony. [05:34]
  • Lownie believes “people are kind of trying to save their own skins and throwing others under the bus.” [05:34]

5. Persistent Questions and Potential Cover-Ups

• US Investigation Flaws:

  • Hansen and Lownie agree that US law enforcement appears less aggressive compared to UK authorities; NDAs and behind-the-scenes deals hamper accountability. [03:27]

  • Ghislaine Maxwell receives allegedly preferential treatment in prison and may be angling for a pardon. [26:49]

    “It’s just a deeply, deeply corrupt operation that’s going on.”
    —Andrew Lownie [26:51]

6. The Epstein Death Controversy

• Suspicious Circumstances & Official Inaction:

  • Correctional officer Tova Noel questioned about Epstein’s special treatment in jail, mysterious $5,000 payment, and destroyed documentation. [13:12]

  • Lownie outright rejects the suicide explanation, instead pointing to overwhelming evidence of possible foul play.

    “There are just so many questions around his death that just don’t add up. … I’m afraid I don’t buy the suicide theory.”
    —Andrew Lownie [14:04]

• The “Suicide Note” and Family Beliefs:

  • Hansen and Lownie agree the late-appearing note, allegedly found with Epstein’s cellmate, is dubious. Mark Epstein, Jeffrey’s brother, claims to possess evidence of murder. [17:05–18:39]

7. The New Mexico Ranch

• Darker Allegations Surface:

  • Lownie references credible allegations of “medical experiments,” “satanic rites,” and a “baby factory” at the New Mexico ranch, with multiple informants now reporting similar stories. [21:57]

  • Hansen recounts Juliet Bryant’s story of waking up in a medical suite on the ranch; now, “other women are coming forward and telling the very same story.” [21:22]

    “I think people died in rough sex. … Suddenly, I’m beginning to look at that [satanic ritual] stuff again in a new light.”
    —Andrew Lownie [21:58]

8. The Surrey Allegations

• Why Surrey Matters:

  • Two new victims have come forward with credible, detailed accounts implicating Andrew; proximity to his Berkshire residence and his daughters’ school may have enabled misconduct. [23:29, 25:22]

  • Gordon Brown’s investigative journalist sister-in-law’s research and opaque flight logs have re-energized the case. [23:40]

    “There seems to be a lot of concrete detail about what happened … I’m very impressed that the police are chasing this.”
    —Andrew Lownie [23:40]

9. Potential Outcomes and Next Moves

• Prospects for Justice:

  • Lownie is “quietly hopeful” that genuine accountability is coming, which he hadn’t thought possible until recently. [29:28]

  • He warns, however, of the risk that Andrew could “disappear to Abu Dhabi and the whole thing is kind of shut up.” [30:36–30:44]

    “If the deal is, look, we’ll get you out to Abu Dhabi and the whole thing will be shut down, you have a good life and just keep us out of it … That would be very neat for everyone.”
    —Andrew Loney [30:44]

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Memorable Quotes

• “We think we know the story, but I think there’s still a lot more to come out.” —Andrew Lownie [21:22]
• “Everything was transactional. … They didn’t have friends in the same way as most of us have.” —Andrew Lownie [20:17]
• “This story in Surrey is really interesting because … if that is the case—he was involved in this—the whole thing becomes much darker.” —Andrew Lownie [21:58]
• “It seems to me that some of the lawyers acting for the victims basically got them payoffs which bought their silence. Now you have to ask whether that was in the best interest of the victims.” —Andrew Lownie [27:15]
• “There are just so many questions around his death that just don’t add up.” —Andrew Lownie [14:04]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:42 – Arrests of former Prince Andrew, Peter Mandelson, ripple effects of Epstein connections
• 01:25 – Police in Surrey find two new underage victims from the Epstein files
• 04:12 – France: 20 new women come forward as Epstein victims
• 05:34 – Potential co-conspirators (Marchenko, Kellon, Ferguson) turning on each other to cut deals
• 07:43 – King Charles’s position, rumors of abdication, and pressure to reckon with the scandal
• 13:12 – Congressional hearing on Epstein’s prison death and suspicious $5,000 payment to corrections officer
• 14:04 – Lownie rejects suicide ruling, details evidence of a probable cover-up
• 17:05–18:39 – “Suicide note” mystery and Mark Epstein’s belief his brother was murdered
• 21:22 – Ranch in New Mexico: Allegations of medical experiments and ritualistic abuse
• 23:29 – Surrey case specifics, flight logs, and the impact of new investigative leads
• 26:49 – Ghislaine Maxwell’s prison conditions and maneuvering for a possible pardon
• 29:28–31:24 – Predictions for future developments, possibility of Andrew fleeing to Abu Dhabi

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Conclusion

Hansen and Lownie paint a picture of an explosive, ongoing investigation in the UK—one that’s exposing decades of cover-ups, elite impunity, and new, horrifying allegations far beyond the already-known scope of the Epstein case. The episode closes on a note of cautious optimism for accountability, while warning that the effort to suppress or sidestep justice remains strong at the highest levels of power. The saga, as both agree, is far from over.

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Transcript

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[Chris Hansen]

The last time British author and expert

on all things Epstein was on this

show, he apparently hit a crystal ball because within hours of our interview, what he talked about actually happened. The arrest of former Prince Andrew Peter Mendelssohn, the former British ambassador to the US all because of their ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Andrew Loney joins me again now to have a seat and bring us up to date on the very latest. Thank you, sir, for joining us from all the way over in the uk It's a pleasure.

[Andrew Loney]

No, it's exciting times. Things are beginning to happen.

[Chris Hansen]

Sure are.

[Andrew Loney]

Seeing some of the things that were released in the Epstein files are now beginning to be shown as investigations, which I never thought would happen.

[Chris Hansen]

Just within hours.

We have learned that police in Surrey, England, have at least two new victims, or not really new because they came out of the Epstein files, but new

to them in terms of an investigation who were underage and were victimized by

somebody in Epstein's circle, maybe perhaps Epstein.

What do you know about that?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean, all I know, to be honest, is what's been released in the Epstein files. And these victims have named Andrew as the person perpetrator. I think it's really interesting that they haven't even given an age for this person. But it does sound like, you know, they are beginning to circle and there is a proper investigation going on, which I never expected. So this is encouraging news. People are being held to account for their, for their behavior.

[Chris Hansen]

Do you think former Prince Andrew thought

that he was going to get away with this, that he was immune to investigation and prosecution and, and give me a sense for the very startling wakeup call that he's experiencing now.

[Andrew Loney]

Yeah, I mean, I think we all thought, I mean, he was, I mean, from all the sources I've talked to, he's very cocky. He thought he wouldn't be charged. He's obsessed with sort of minor detail about his new home. And if this is the case I mean, if he is being properly investigated then you know, the law is taking its course and that's not something we expect. I certainly expected, I kind of thought there was going to be a complete cover up and it was going to be shut down. So this is really exciting news. I was told a few days ago by one of my sources that there would be some major developments in the next few days. And it sounds like this is actually what he was talking about.

[Chris Hansen]

Does it surprise you, Andrew, that it

seems that investigators in the UK are

more active than investigators here in the US based upon what has been released in the Epstein files?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean, you know, clearly people have been subpoenaed, but yes, absolutely. It seems to be that there are a number of figures here who are being investigated. There are others who aren't, you know, Richard Branson I think seems to be involved in this and hasn't been questioned. But yeah, I mean the line is that some of the co conspirators have done deals with the doj. They're not going to be called and a lot of these girls, women now have signed NDAs and not going to come out and talk. But I think that we, you know, I get the sense that maybe more is happening than we realize and I do feel that maybe that the law is taking this seriously, which I never expected.

[Chris Hansen]

And there is word from France that investigators, according to a Wall Street Journal report, have identified or have been approached by at least 20 women, 10 of whom were unknown to investigators before this. And that sounds like it's a big lead in terms of potential victims here.

[Andrew Loney]

I've had about 200,000 words, 200,000 words that I've been able to take down from the people who've come to me. Literally dozens of people, staff colleagues, protection officers, etc. And people seem more open to talk. And if that's the case, if these new people are volunteering, people we didn't know about, then this is really going to make the case, you know, much stronger and is blowing the whole thing open.

[Chris Hansen]

Nadia Marchenko, who was a girlfriend apparently of Jeffrey Epstein, his assistant pilot for

a time, she was given some sort

of immunity back during the prosecution in 2007, 2008, she seems to be surfacing again in this as a potential co conspirator. What can you tell me about her?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean we, we. She was one of many people, Sarah Kellon's another, who basically pleaded the fifth Amendment and wouldn't talk. And I think from what I understand law enforcement is persuading a Few people in return for minimizing their sentences to. To begin to explain what was going on. It's like a complete intelligence operation. So I can't speak exactly to her case, but it does seem to me that people are beginning to squeal this talk that Sarah Ferguson is beginning to deliver information which might well incriminate her husband, but people are kind of trying to save their own skins and throwing others under the bus at the same time.

[Chris Hansen]

And that's generally when investigations pick up steam.

Do you think Sarah Ferguson at this

point is just trying to save her own skin?

[Andrew Loney]

Yes, I think, you know, this idea that she's been loyal to Andrew up till now, but she's cutting loose is absolutely right. She sees he's toxic, she's trying to survive. And if it seems to be relations with the Daughters between him and the Daughters are not great. So I think they just take. She's taken a decision that she will. She will do whatever it takes to make sure she's okay. The thing with the Daughters is odd because there's this slightly schizophrenic approach to them. One moment they're in, and one moment they're. But I think we're coming increasingly towards a position where the Royal family are going to distance themselves from the children. And if that's the case, then I think Sarah Ferguson will do whatever it takes to protect herself.

[Chris Hansen]

King Charles has got to be just sick and tired of this entire ordeal. And at some point, you know, blood is thicker than water. But he's not going to let the bloodline end because of Andrew's horrifying behavior over several decades and his relationship with a child sex trafficker. I mean, he's got to have said, this is it, you know, whatever you got to do, clean this up. And if he's got to go to prison, he's got to go to prison.

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I hope that's the situation. I mean, there's never been a great relationship between Andrew and Charles. I mean, there's been, you know, mutual jealousy there. Charles is fed up with Andrew. He's clearly reputational damage on the monarchy. But Andrew has the goods on Charles and he's, I suspect, threatened to reveal that. So it's been a difficult position. But, you know, and the big question that the Hectors are asking is what did Charles know and when did he know it? You know, did he pay off Virginia Giffre and why did he give her this hush money? So Charles is in a difficult position. And I think many of us feel that Charles has To basically bite the ball. And he needs to accept that he has some responsibility for the COVID up. And you know, there are rumors begin to circulate that he will abdicate, that William will step up. And William has, as far as I know, no association with Epstein. And in the past, you know, the Queen passed the buck to Charles and the pressure is on Charles now to accept that he has to be the fall guy. And we'll start fresh with, with William. But who knows? I mean, we've got these diversionary tactics at the moment. They're talking about making concessions in terms of their financial transparency. And maybe they're hoping that that will do the trick and take people's attention away from, from Epstein.

[Chris Hansen]

Well, how much do you think King

Charles knows about what's going on? Was it a matter of, of him knowing and looking the other way? Was it a matter of him saying, I'm going to help my brother clean up this mess? How, how deep does it go, do you think?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, all the information I'm getting is that Charles has known about this for a long time and he's turned a blind eye. He's hoped the problem will go away and he has to take responsibility. I mean, the line they're presenting is, you know, he didn't know anything and it was all big surprise. But that's not what I'm hearing. I saw one of my sources and saw it yesterday, very close to the royal family. And that is the real concern, that this will bring down Charles as well as Andrew.

[Chris Hansen]

And the plan would then be obviously to have William, you know, ascend to the throne.

[Andrew Loney]

And I think they're working towards that. I think they're preparing for that possibility.

[Chris Hansen]

Do you feel bad for Charles at

all or did he bring this upon himself with this sense of impunity the royal family has had for so many years?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I do feel sorry for Charles. I mean, he's waited in all his life for this job. I mean, he's a highly cultured, intelligent man. I think he had a lot to contribute. But he's had three years to deal with this problem. I mean, there was a transitional monarchy going on, even the last few years, the Queen's life. And you know, he has to accept responsibility for this. I mean, the reason it's become a bigger problem than it might have been is because they have kind of tried to suppress the story. I mean, they threatened people with legal action. They threatened them with rule of access to members of the royal family. They've denied the story time and time again. And I'm afraid he has to own up to this thing that he knew about it and did nothing about it. We've had 15 years of bad publicity. We had Sarah Ferguson being caught sending access to 100 in 2010, 2022, the family were caught taking 1.3 million which they couldn't explain. And my own book came out in August and I think gave a pretty clear sign of how badly they behaved. And nothing happened until the King was heckled at Litchfield in October of last year.

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[Chris Hansen]

on this side of the pond. Just this week, Tova Noel, who is a corrections officer at the facility where Epstein was being held prior to his death suicide, was called in front of a congressional committee to answer questions. Answer questions about how Epstein was given preferential treatment. How he was given a CPAP machine, how he was given medications that other inmates were not getting, how he was given extra bedding which may have played a role in his death. And then she was asked about this mysterious $5,000 payment which was flagged in her bank account right around the time of Epstein's death. What do you think that says about this investigation and whether or not it was a suicide?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean, the interesting question is how did she explain that payment into her account just before he died? How does she explain the fact that she was googling his death before he died? How does she explain the fact that she wasn't disciplined? How do they explain the fact that so much documentation was destroyed and people witnessed it being taken out of the correctional center? How is it explained that all these people conveniently fell asleep at the right time, the cameras were switched off. The forensic evidence doesn't suggest a suicide. That people who were in the prison said it was almost impossible to commit suicide. The fact that the lawyers acting even for the victim said that he wasn't suicidal. There are just so many questions around his death that just don't add up. And I'm afraid no one was disciplined for what was a complete breach of security here. And we've seen cover ups in terms of the footage. Things were cut and not properly shown. There are a lot of questions that I think need to be answered. And I think the suspicion amongst a lot of us is that this was, was not a suicide. I mean, he did make his will a few days before he died, but not because he was going to commit suicide, but because he thought he would be killed. And so many people in this story seem to have died in mysterious circumstances. So I'm afraid I don't buy the suicide theory.

[Chris Hansen]

You know, and part of what's clouded this investigation is that that facility was so poorly run at the time of this, Tova Noel was working a double shift, and reports are that she was taking naps. Her partner at the control center there was on a triple shift and was sleeping frequently. I mean, they're working around the clock. So it's not a great environment for a real efficient crew to be watching inmates in this situation. So I think that's part of what's clatter did. And I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but,

you know, it's hard to accept a

suicide in this case. And I think most people who've been watching this are on the same page as you and where I'm going on it.

[Andrew Loney]

Yeah, no, I agree. You know, very convenient to say that, you know, clearly they were working double and triple shifts, but, you know, this was a high Profile prisoner. This was an important correctional center and I just find extraordinary given, you know, his position that the, you know, more care. More, more. He wasn't taken care. You know, he wasn't. There was a duty of care to him which wasn't followed through and odd things like visits from Bill Barr to him. But, you know, just before he died, it, you know, there are just so many unexplained bits to this story and a sense that people are not telling the truth about what happened. I mean, the fact the body was taken away, there were no proper photographs, there wasn't a proper autopsy, just doesn't, doesn't ring, doesn't make sense.

[Chris Hansen]

What do you make of this purported suicide note that apparently was in the possession of his cellmate who's now serving life sentences for four homicides?

[Andrew Loney]

We have no sense of the provenance of this note. Is odd that it's appeared now nothing rings true in this story.

[Chris Hansen]

Why would any court seal this?

I mean, there's no reason for it to be sealed. There's no, you know, government security intelligence issue. You know, it was in the, you know, the only thing I can figure out is that maybe there was some question about, as you said, it's, it's, it's authenticity. I mean, and why, you know, how did it end up in the book that was in the possession of the, the fellow inmate? I don't understand that. There seems to be a big issue with the chain of custody of this note and it's kind of, yeah, it's kind of weirdly oddly written, don't you think?

[Andrew Loney]

Exactly. It doesn't sound, feel and sound like, like Epstein, you know, this is, you know, but it's weird. If you're going to do a sort of forgery, you kind of make your forgery work. And so this seems, you know, it seems a very half hearted attempt to, to kind of put people off the scent. And again, why it should happen now is odd. I, I had lunch with Mark Epstein in December and he said that he was going to produce evidence in February of the, of a murder. Now he hasn't produced that. I don't know quite why not, whether that the, the medical evidence that he was trying to collect hasn't come through or he's decided to hold back and is waiting for, for another time to reveal what he knows.

[Chris Hansen]

What did Mark Epstein tell you about what he thinks happened to his brother?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, he's pretty convinced that he was killed. And you know, we know that Epstein was beginning to perhaps talk, Jeffrey. And you know, Clearly, a lot of people did not want him to begin to spill beans. So it does make sense that, you know, the easiest thing would be to get rid of him at this stage because, you know, he was the beginning of the legal process. He'd succeeded in previous occasions to basically talk himself out of these problems with expensive lawyers. So, you know, the idea of committing suicide at that stage doesn't make sense. But if he was prepared to basically reveal the involvement of other people, then that clearly was a dangerous moment for him.

[Chris Hansen]

I mean, he really didn't have friends like you have friends or I have friends. He had connections and contacts. You know, maybe Ghislaine Maxwell is the closest to being a friend, or Nadia Marchenko at one point, but his friends

were all people who.

Who he could use or get something from or make money from. It's not like he was a guy who was, you know, chummy, really chummy with a lot of people. I mean, maybe he hung out with, you know, people in Mar a Lago back in the day and whatever, but he.

He. He didn't hang out with people unless

he had a use for them. And so it would seem that he's the kind of personality who would rat everybody out to save his ass, basically. I mean, there's no holes guard here.

He.

He didn't feel like he owed anybody anything, and he would. He had to do to not spend the rest of his life in prison.

[Andrew Loney]

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. Everything was transactional. Everything was. You know, and that was true of even people like Sarah Fragson. I mean, talking to people who work for her. Everything was about an opportunity to make money, to use people, even social occasions. So you're absolutely right. You know, they didn't have friends in the same way as most of us have. And exactly. It came to a moment where perhaps he wanted to save his own skin. He was prepared to dish dirt, and people realized that. You know, I think researching this over the last four years, I'm suddenly realizing that there's a much bigger story here than we realize. It's moved from sex trafficking to financial manipulation through to national security. And even now, we've only got the tip of the iceberg of what happened. You know, all sorts of interesting discoveries we made about the ranch and New Mexico. More and more connections are beginning to emerge about people around the world and the political and financial establishments. And, you know, in some ways, Epstein wasn't the center of this net. He was just one of the many players in it. I think we think we know the story, but I think there's still a lot more to come out.

[Chris Hansen]

And what do you think we'll learn

from the ranch in New Mexico? We interviewed Juliet Bryant, and you've probably spoken to her, who tells a story of waking up in a medical operating suite, not knowing what's happened to her. And all of a sudden, you know, from the time she told me that story, which seemed kind of, you know, dramatic, suddenly other women are coming forward and telling the very same story. It's not so dramatic. It seems like there were definitely medical experiments going on and God knows what

else at that ranch.

[Andrew Loney]

Yeah, no, I think it was a baby factory. I think people died in rough sex. You know, I had lots and lots of people come to me with talk of satanic rites and rituals which I ignored because I thought they were mad. But actually, now I'm beginning to look at that. Those people again, a new light. And you're absolutely right. This story in Surrey is really interesting because, you know, the woman has been named Andrew. Certainly in the Epstein files, they've kept that quiet. And if that is the case, he was involved in this, the whole thing becomes much darker than it was at the moment. The line is that he was involved with Virginia Jeffrey. She was trafficked to him. She was not underage at the time, and it was a sort of kind of mistake. But if. If he was involved in this underage stuff and girls actually, you know, suffering in the way that we now think, then that puts a completely different light on the story and basically finishes him.

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[Chris Hansen]

What do we know about the incident in Surrey?

There's supposed to be two victims who

have come from forward there. What do we know about the circumstances surrounding the allegations?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean, they went to the police and the victims were taken seriously. I'm not sure they wanted to pursue what they were saying, but it, you know, there seems to be a lot of concrete detail about what happened. Details of where they went and what they reported. And so, you know, I think it's going to be very difficult to, to say this is just a sort of someone making up a story because, because we have just so much detail and you know, I, I have to say I'm, I'm very impressed that the police are chasing this. One of the things that's changed things over the last few weeks is the intervention of Gordon Brown, a former Prime Minister, he's sister in law, whose investigative journalist has done a lot of research. She's, she's seen that a lot of these girls were brought in under flights that were never really properly recorded. The flight digests are pretty, were pretty opaque and it's suddenly given a new impetus to the investigation. I think the police feel they need to be seen to be doing something and I just thought they were going to kick this into touch and it would be lost. But it does feel that things are happening and that must be very exciting for the victims who feel they're getting justice and for those of us who feel these people need to be held to account.

[Chris Hansen]

And besides the basics, he's talking about the Surrey case here again that there are allegations made by women who are then underage about relations with former Prince Andrew. Do we know any specifics? Why, why was Surrey significant in terms of a location what these now women then girls are alleging happened between themselves and, and Frank former Prince Andrew?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, Surrey is quite close to where he lived in Berkshire and I think his daughters went to school in Surrey, so this doesn't surprise me. They're all very, very close. He would have had very easy communication between these places. He may not have felt that he could operate close to where he lived, but the fact is that he was all over the place. He was operating in Norfolk, at Sandringham. We haven't had stories about Balmoral in Aberdeenshire, but I suspect these will come. There are, I think different police forces that are looking into suggestions of girls being trafficked in, whether it's Northolt in London or some of the places in the Cotswolds, quite apart from sort of Surrey, Wiltshire. I mean all sorts of places seem to have connections with Andrew and one's got to remember that he had a sort of network of friends where he used to go and stay who would be very protective of him. So this doesn't surprise me at all. But Surrey is close to London. Very easy for him to go there from either Windsor or from London. So obvious place.

[Chris Hansen]

Well, it seems like they're closing in, in the UK in a lot of different ways. Meantime, here in the us, Ghislaine Maxwell is getting preferential treatment in prison, by all accounts. And there are reports that she has sent a thumb drive of some sort containing something to the Justice Department.

What do we know about that?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I mean, it's very clear. There's a big campaign to basically give her a pardon. It looks likely that Trump will do so. I mean, she's clearly done her bit by not revealing Trump's involvement in this story. I mean, it's extraordinary for a woman, given what she was accused of doing, that she's in the second prison. You know, the whole thing, frankly, stinks. The connections with, with Trump and the fact that he's protected by, well, various people around him and various other people have basically been allowed to get off scot free. And I suspect that Maxwell will, will, will walk at some point and, you know, that will send out all sorts of signals to people that it's hardly worth, you know, bringing up some of these questions because everyone will be, be, be taken care of. You know, it's just a deeply, deeply corrupt operation that's going on. And, you know, what can we say? I mean, it seems to me that some of the lawyers have been acting for the victims and basically got them payoffs which bought their silence. Now you have to ask whether that was in the best interest of the, of the victims. We've got, you know, just various people we know should have been subpoenaed who are not being called. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes. If, if people like, for example, Amanda Thirsty work for Andrew, David Stern, he was kind of his point man, some protection officers, that they're being interviewed or if the whole thing is just being a complete cover up. I mean, the whole thing is being kept very, very secret and we can only wait to see what emerges.

[Chris Hansen]

Do you think Keir Starmer, the Prime

Minister, survives all this?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, I think the thing is he's been kept there until perhaps Andrew Burnham wins his by election. So that suits various Labour Party members to kind of keep him dangling there taking the blame for what's going on. But we're going to see more papers released on Peter Mandelson. I think that'll be embarrassing for Keir Starmer. They promised to release papers about Prince Andrew and his appointment as a trade envoy. They haven't done so so far. I don't think they will. I'm certainly getting a lot of pushback on the requests I'm putting in. So you know, the COVID up continues and it's a cover up in the palace and a cover up in the government and you know, we just need social media, we press to really keep the pressure on so that we eventually, I hope we'll get to some sort of truth about what has already happened.

[Chris Hansen]

Well, I appreciate you and your efforts. What do you think the next big piece of this is going to be? To drop?

[Andrew Loney]

Well, good question.

[Chris Hansen]

You know, you predicted the future last time.

[Andrew Loney]

Well, maybe I was just lucky. I mean, he may be funny, be arrested and charged. There's, you know, it may be that, that Sarah Ferguson is brought in for questioning. It may be that he disappears to Abu Dhabi and the whole thing is kind of shut up. It may be that, you know, we've now got several police forces looking at this and I think it's going to be more and more difficult for them to do a cover up as they have in the past. The Metropolitan Police has been taken off the job. It's been pushed by Berkshire police in terms of Valley Police and various others. So I do have a hope that we may see some justice which I didn't, you know, frankly even a day or so I didn't think was going to happen. But you know, it's early days. I mean my instinct was it was all going to be kicked into touch. We'd be in a new reign, people would have forgotten about it. But I am sort of quietly hopeful that maybe he will be held to account in the reign of King Charles rather than King William.

[Chris Hansen]

And you think it's a real possibility that Andrew, former Prince Andrew, would skip out to Abu Dhabi to avoid prosecution?

[Andrew Loney]

Yup. Is what happened with, with King Juan Carlos. His passport hasn't been taken away. He's supposedly under police protection but you know, we saw that police protection with Jeffrey Epstein wasn't very effective. I think he feels he's been hung out to dry. Others knew about it and protected him and they should also be, be in, in a sense should be held account as well. And I think that's the story that they don't want out. So he doesn't want to go basically down on his own. He's going to take others with him, but he can. So if he sent, if the deal is, look, we'll get you out to Abu Dhabi and the whole thing will be shut down. You have a good life and just keep us out of it. That would be very neat for everyone.

[Chris Hansen]

Right, well, we shall see.

Andrew Loney, thank you very much for taking time to chat with me.

From the UK From London tonight. I appreciate it. Continued success to you and your reporting and your authorship and your endeavors. We'll stay in touch and I'll chat with you soon.

[Andrew Loney]

Thank you. I hope so. Thank you very much for Absolutely.

[Chris Hansen]

Andrew loney, Author, Epstein Expert in the UK where much of this is going on, I think we're a long way from being wrapped up here. I think it's interesting that the former prince could end up hiding out in Abu Dhabi to wrap this up. We'll see. Anyway, very enlightening.

I will see you next Wednesday right here.

And have a seat with Chris Hansen.

Mondays is when predators I've caught drops. And as always, a new episode of

Takedown with Chris Hansen on Thursdays on my streaming crime network, True Blue. Watch trueblue.com for details. I'll be watching and listening.

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