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[00:00]
Venmo User 1
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[00:02]
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[00:08]
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[00:09]
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[00:17]
Venmo User 1
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[00:18]
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[00:20]
Venmo User 1
Get the Venmo debit card.
[00:21]
Venmo User 2
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[00:30]
Facebook Ad Narrator
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[01:10]
Chris Hansen
He is 92 years old. Intellectually he is sharp as a tack and his suits are cut sharp as a knife. I'm talking about Willie Brown, the former mayor of San Francisco. He also led the state legislature in California for many years. He is a political kingmaker. He knows Gavin Newsom well. He made Gavin Newsom's career. He knows Kamala Harris well. And wait until you hear what he has to say about the upcoming 2028 election. People like Zoran Mamdani, the mayor of New York and the so called Democratic Socialist Party. We need to mind our elders.
[01:51]
Interviewer
Mr. Brown, it's a pleasure to be here with you and thank you for being so gracious as to give us time to talk to you about this. As mayor you experienced incredible popularity with the citizens, with the policeman, with the firemen, and you experienced incredible economic growth in this city. What made you such a successful mayor of San Francisco?
[02:18]
Willie Brown
Well, I probably think it started with who I am, for openers. Literally my conduct and what I believe in and how I've done things have always been for the express purpose of having people be pleased with it at every level, whether they're Republicans or Democrats or independents or decline the state. It doesn't matter. All of my life I've been about from the time I was 17 years of age and first arriving here from Texas, my mother and my uncle had made sure that there was some discipline being exercised by me and conduct in every way. And the foundation of that obviously, is who you are as a person.
[03:08]
Interviewer
Was being mayor of San Francisco the best job you ever had?
[03:13]
Willie Brown
Not really. It certainly equals any of the jobs that I've had, if not ultimately in some cases exceeded them, because I was only mayor for eight years. And during that time period I had to spend a part of my time reforming the electoral collection of people trying to run the city because there was still lots of the nonsense that goes with trying to have the rules blend for you, not for the public. Once I managed to overcome that hurdle, it became a really great, great, pleasant place for me as an elected official. But you see, I had been 32 years in the halls of the legislature, and 12 and a half of those years I had been leading the House Republicans and Democrats. And I got elected the only person ever elected up there to lead the place with being both Republicans and Democrats voting for me. And in one case, more Republicans than Democrats. In addition, there too, I managed to establish a worker relationship with the governors. I had three governors. I had Jerry Brown for two years only, but I had Duke Mahen and Wilson for all the other years of my life who were Republicans or Republicans and worked well. For an example, a fellow named Mike Ruth, a buddy of mine who had been one of my founding strategists, moved back to LA to run the school district. And just before he left, he really, really genuinely wanted a ban on assault weapons here. We had had the shooting in the schoolyard in Stockton. We had had a couple of other shootings. And he really made himself and devoted himself to exactly that. A Republican governor. No way you're going to get that signed easily. We went to work and Duke Machin signed that bill. I took him to a funeral of a family who had child had been the victim of such a shooting. And he cried at the funeral. And that's when I knew he would sign it. And then we had a woman named Maxine Waters. I remember one of the other folk who had been pushing for a while to try to figure out how to get Nelson Mandela out of prison in Africa, South Africa. Of all cases that occurred, I cite those two because they were both decisions had to have the signature of the governors. And in this case it wasn't Jerry Brown who left in 82 right from the polls of the legislature and didn't come back till he came to Oakland as the mayor of that in the. In. In this century, not the last century. And then we had to have those two governors sign those Bills you would think there'd be no way the governors would sign.
[06:40]
Interviewer
But you got it done.
[06:41]
Willie Brown
We got it.
[06:43]
Interviewer
What would you say is the state of the Democratic Party today?
[06:48]
Willie Brown
The Democratic Party is unfortunately troubled and in sometimes stymied by the absence of the real quality people running for public office. People don't really do that anymore. People don't go to school to try to become an elected official. This country was founded with the most talented period. That constitution we live by was written by bright, able people, dedicated people. This country was literally, as I said, founded and the Constitution was written. And it wouldn't have been done but people who were not the best and the brightest at that time, we don't have that anymore. We don't have the best and the brightest. What we have are people who can figure out how to get elected and. And that's it. And they like to keep on being elected. So they spent more time doing that than they do trying to orchestrate problem solving solutions, period.
[07:52]
Interviewer
We've seen a lot of people in the Democratic Party call themselves socialists. The Democratic Socialist Party, there's a wing, and I know you're aware of this. What do you make of that? And is there any city in America where that can actually work?
[08:12]
Willie Brown
No. New York has proven that it can't work. That person has been elected and that person was elected when all the rules have been altered so that you don't run it as a Republican, you don't run as a Democrat, you can run a combination of the two. And that essentially in part is what has been done. And the accountability of people seeking and ultimately holding public office is so much lower than it was years ago, was when I first started. And so we Democrats are frankly in trouble. We need to do some real recruiting. Just think, we've got a Governor General election going on here in California at the moment and we have had two or three candidates have to drop out because of allegations of misconduct, serious criminal
[09:15]
Interviewer
allegations in the case of Eric Stalwell.
[09:18]
Willie Brown
And believe me, that robs us because let's take Eric. It was, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago or so. He ran against probably the best person holding public office at the congressional level dedicated to health care, a guy named Pete Stark. Most of them, probably people don't remember him, but he was peacenik. But more importantly a dedicated person trying to get universal health care. That was his goal and he was doing a great job. This young deputy district attorney who was just starting in life, wanted to be a congressperson and knew that he could ring doorbells against the old, the elderly, and against the guy who didn't want to have to come home from, from Washington every week in order to go to crazy events going on in his district. And he didn't. And as a result of his not coming home, Eric Swalwell beat him. And Eric was a prosecutor at the time. Obviously his discipline didn't control him. Once he got in the spotlight, he conducted himself highly inappropriate.
[10:41]
Interviewer
Well, and in the Swalwell case, we're not talking about somebody who's got a colorful lifestyle or may have been accused of being a womanizer. We're talking about accusations of physical abuse, choking things, drugging women. I mean, things that are serious and things that should arguably keep somebody from even being considered for public office.
[11:05]
Willie Brown
No question whatsoever. But he was not when he was a da he clearly was not doing any of those things. He was in a way, in a space and a place where the requirement for self discipline was all encompassing. And he obviously did that.
[11:26]
Interviewer
Couldn't handle it.
[11:27]
Willie Brown
He couldn't have gotten elected. But once you get elected, you are a star, you are a superstar, and you can become misled very easily. The attractiveness of the attention generated by whom holding public office is enormous. You never get over it.
[11:49]
Chris Hansen
As you may know, sometimes during our takedown investigations, law enforcement uses dogs to find hidden computers and phones that may contain evidence. But we also know that a lot of you have cats.
[12:00]
Interviewer
And that's one of the reasons why
[12:02]
Chris Hansen
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[13:05]
Priceline Ad Narrator
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[13:07]
Interviewer
It's the priceline negotiator.
[13:09]
Priceline Ad Narrator
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[13:34]
Interviewer
Priceline. What do you think of the job Zorin Mamdani has done in New York?
[13:39]
Willie Brown
Thus far, he hasn't done anything except get people elected in the way that he got elected and with the same kind of concept. And he has literally disrupted the lives of some very talented people who were consistently embraced and reelected by their constituency. All of the problems that exist in our system now need attention, obviously, or I should say many of the problems in the promise to the public that you or I will fix the problem sometimes can be incompetent and cause bad things to happen, electorally speaking. And those things happen. And not just in New York, but just happened in Denver. The woman there got unelected by one of those socialist Democrats or democratic socialists and whatever they call themselves. If you are really serious about doing things electorally speaking, you know, we didn't need to change a party. You can change, do it the way we have done it in the past and the way I did it.
[14:58]
Interviewer
Where does this notion of socialism come from? I can't find a case where it's ever worked, where it's ever created great economic growth or stability. I mean, is this a generation of kids who just don't understand the mechanics of economics in a big city?
[15:15]
Willie Brown
Your question is rooted in the assumption that they're serious. They are really not, because they do not instantly begin to try to do what. In my college classes and yours, we had an understanding of what socialism was, and there is no question that that definition is available. But that's not what they're doing. They're looking for a vehicle to elevate the level of criticism, charging quality people doing their best to change the system and answer all the questions and treat all the problems, they say to the voting public, only by the way, in a convenient way created by the people they're running against, not by the system seriously. And that obviously has generated an opportunity to be on a platform with zero responsibility to perform. The new mayor of New York has now been there for a while and what has he done? He's elected three others of his kind, eliminating some very talented people. The thing that I'm more fascinated with is the fact that only one or two of those so called Democratic socialists have gone beyond simply being elected, period. I think that people like the lady across the bay who, who took Barbara Lee's seat, Letitia, she's really trying her best. She's associating with them but not being controlled by them. She's trying to use them to get the next step and change in Oakland. How do you, from a congressional standpoint,
[17:20]
Interviewer
how do you react when you see Mom Donnie essentially attack billionaires in New York City, expose their addresses, claim that nobody should be that wealthy, that they should be taxed just because they're billionaires and they have property but their main residence is someplace else. How do you react to that?
[17:42]
Willie Brown
I say that I really want to be a real American under the guise of people like Abraham Lincoln, like Thomas Jefferson, like the people who set this place up and modified it accordingly. And occasionally I want to do that kind of thing. I am not about trying to make this country similar to some place that has some other rules. People come into this country because they prospectively have the American dream in the American dream sometimes produces wealthy results for people who really follow it and invent something, come up with something new, write a new play, write a series of play, write books, do the create a
[18:44]
Interviewer
product that's right that engage in commerce
[18:48]
Willie Brown
that's available and that can be made available. But simultaneously we have to care enough about each other to do something of Sharon if we can. Otherwise the tax system wouldn't work unless we had a tax system that made it possible for you that earns more than I earn to pay. But we pay in the same way and we're contributing for the benefit of the people. Health care wise, safety wise. I don't think it makes any sense to seriously think about the nature of what you know and what you read about socialism over the years. But we've got to be, and we really got to be dedicated to doing serious work about immigration. We got to do serious work about education. We got to do serious work about every aspect of health care. The nature of people living within the framework of some of the things that they have become restricted to because of disability on their part, not because we need to be taken care of. That's not what's occurring. As a so called Democratic socialist, do
[20:16]
Interviewer
you think that Zorin Mandami AOC Some of these other Democratic Socialists are the future of the Democratic Party? What's going to happen to the Democratic
[20:28]
Willie Brown
Party cannot be the future of the Democratic Party because so far they have no program that speaks to the needs of people. They have a program that gets people elected and excited about prospects with zero performance, period. Not unlike, obviously, Trump. The conduct of the two mirrors each other because the goals are the same. Just get control.
[21:04]
Interviewer
Do you think we respect our elders in America? If I'm the mayor of New York, the mayor of Los Angeles, the mayor of San Francisco, I'm going to pick up the phone and call Willie Brown and say, hey, what do you think about this? You were here, you're 92 years old. You've seen it all. Give me some insight.
[21:29]
Willie Brown
Well, be clear. It's not unusual for newly elected people whom I believe mean well. They don't mean harm. They just don't understand how to get there and do no harm. They just don't grasp what needs to be done. We are fortunate because we still have folk who seek elective office, want to get elected to public office, and doing so with a promised responsibility for a legitimate result that addresses affordable housing, that addresses safety, that addresses education, that addresses the things why government success, period. And till that end, those are the kind of people that we ought to try to encourage.
[22:29]
Interviewer
You have a unique position because, you know, through politics and through personal relationships, two people who could end up being potentially the Democratic nominee For President in 2028, Kamala Harris and the current governor of California, Gavin Newsom. Without getting you into trouble, who do you think's got the best shot at being president?
[22:54]
Willie Brown
I really think that Gavin Newsom, the current governor of this state, on a practical basis, politically, has a better current agenda in pursuit of that office with the practicality of being persuasive enough to get people to vote for him. Kamala Harris was a district attorney of San Francisco. I supported her. He supported her. He was the mayor of San Francisco. I supported him and she supported him. There is no way in the world that from those two purchase, one elected district attorney, he elected mayor, and then that too went up almost simultaneously. One became the lieutenant governor, one became the attorney general of the state of California, and then suddenly one became the governor and one became a US Senator. You wonder aloud how two people that are about the same age, two people that came from the same collection of support base, people who perform well enough to get elevated to really significant electoral positions, people who have not been tracked with anything that would disqualify you from holding public office, period. You would think that there have to be some way, particularly he Governor Xi, vice president. No woman in this country has ever reached that level as a woman because we still have a Problem elected women to public office. We just don't do it the way it's done in some other countries. She has reached that incredible level of vice president and had an opportunity if by accident she could have been the president. That's a reality. She then could not get elected to the job running against Trump because this country just did not ready for a woman. Hillary would have been elected if it had been ready for a woman. And in view of that, on a practical basis, I would urge Kamala Harris to enjoy the credit of the achievements that she has benefited by from the support base that's Newsom and the support base that's Harris. And the two of them ought to be about talking to all of us Democrats every day of the week. We can do it again. Let's give Newsom the deal.
[26:07]
Interviewer
So you think Kamala Harris should step aside and support Gavin Newsom?
[26:11]
Willie Brown
I do.
[26:13]
Interviewer
In 2028 as president?
[26:14]
Willie Brown
I do.
[26:15]
Interviewer
And do you think Gavin Newsom would be a good president?
[26:19]
Willie Brown
I think Gavin Newsom would do the job. He's going to have to prove just as he did at the state level, that he can do the job. I started his career, I appointed him to the first involvement in government he ever had. And it's kind of interesting because it was to be chair of the traffic commission. Parking and traffic is what I assigned him to do. He wanted to be a movie guy. He wanted to go and be a film star. And I promised him that I would name him to the film commission. And then I discovered I didn't have a vacancy. The only vacancy I had was parking and traffic.
[27:12]
Interviewer
So we went there.
[27:13]
Willie Brown
I named him without telling him. He took it and respected by naming him and I instantly named him chairman because in the second or third meeting of that body, it was clear that on that body he really had the skill set to make it work. You read all the rules and what have you. And so it was a good choice on my part ultimately and a good acceptance by him. He may able to demonstrate that same quality. After all, he's had two great teachers who are still alive that have been president Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
[27:55]
Interviewer
Do you think Kamala Harris would be a good president?
[27:57]
Willie Brown
I do. I think Kamala Harris, if she made the presidency. But making the presidency and getting elected to the presidency, the stir place.
[28:08]
Interviewer
One of the criticisms of Kamala Harris is that she engages in word salad, right? She doesn't effectively get her point across, maybe doesn't effectively convey her level of intelligence or political experience. What do you say to that?
[28:24]
Willie Brown
I think that that's a bum shot by people. Just think about it. If you have the chance to defeat the incumbent district attorney because people thought you were better and you proved to be better, you then became the Attorney General, you defeated the District Attorney of Los Angeles who was running for Attorney General in a state that had not elected a Democratic Attorney General in a long time. And you, a woman, ran and beat him. And just think, not only is she a woman, she's a woman of color. A combination of all those factors required her to demonstrate her ability. And believe me, anybody who would see her cross examination of candidates being appointed by the President Trump, in this case for the Supreme Court or other places, no one was better qualified as a US Senator to be doing that questioning. And it had come from the experience of being a DA da, An Attorney General, and she had demonstrated ability as a prosecutor and she used it carefully and cleverly. So when someone says she's not quite ready, no, she's not quite ready to do trivia,
[29:58]
Interviewer
but she could do the job, do you think?
[29:59]
Willie Brown
As good as anybody.
[30:02]
Interviewer
What do you think about Josh Shapiro and Andy Bashar?
[30:06]
Willie Brown
We have four or five potential good candidates. The woman that I thought should have been a candidate was. Was a woman from Michigan, the Governor of Michigan, who should have been a candidate.
[30:20]
Interviewer
Gretchen Whitmer.
[30:20]
Willie Brown
That's right. She said, however, about three weeks ago, a month ago, that she is finished with her electoral politics, doesn't want to do it anymore while trying to run the state of Michigan. I can understand her displeasure, but I had hoped that she'd be there. I certainly think the two candidates potentially that you mentioned, but there may be others, I don't think. Yeah, I love the opportunity to see the dialogue that includes the guy from Illinois as a possible candidate. And I'm going to suspect that the woman from New York who started this business of the so called socialist Democrats may very well be aoc. Aoc?
[31:15]
Interviewer
Is AOC electable as President?
[31:18]
Willie Brown
No, of course not. But you ask about the quality of the candidates. The quality of the candidates seldom if ever is matched by the public acceptance of the candidates.
[31:32]
Interviewer
Why do young people embrace some of this socialist stuff? AOC and Mamdani and mayors of other cities that we've seen, I mean, it's pretty radical stuff.
[31:48]
Willie Brown
It is beyond any possibility of reality in a democracy. In this democracy, you have to be persuasive enough with your ideas so that in the electoral process you win the public's embracement. That's not what that crowd is doing,
[32:13]
Interviewer
but they're getting they're getting attention. They're getting elected.
[32:16]
Willie Brown
They certainly are. But in limited jurisdictions, in limited capacities that the hundreds of millions of people that in America, with all those various states, the applicability of either one of them rising to the level of electability in those states is unbelievably impossible.
[32:46]
Chris Hansen
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[33:58]
Interviewer
Fix it.
[33:59]
Chris Hansen
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[34:09]
Venmo User 1
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[34:11]
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[34:17]
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[34:26]
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[34:27]
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[34:29]
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[34:30]
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[34:39]
Interviewer
Do you think Zoran Mamdami could cause destruction in New York City? Could. Could damage this city?
[34:49]
Willie Brown
I hope not. And I don't want to assume and I don't want to be associated with the assumption that he doesn't have the skill level of an elected official. He does that.
[35:05]
Interviewer
He got elected.
[35:07]
Willie Brown
Got elected. But he doesn't have the good sense to make that a reality for a majority of Americans so far.
[35:17]
Interviewer
Do you worry that he was a tick tock phenomenon and not the kind of guy who can actually run a city like New York, which requires relationships? Diamond. And that's all these hitters, that's part
[35:29]
Willie Brown
of the risk you get in a democracy. And that's why they, that crowd, as small as the crowd is, they are trying to rewrite how and so far they've only been successful in a limited number of jurisdictions.
[35:48]
Interviewer
What would you say to Zoran Mandami? What would you tell him, given your vast experience and success running a major city?
[35:58]
Willie Brown
I would tell him that he really should do his best to try to become persuasive in getting elected. Which means universal acceptance, not limited, very cleverly, tactical acceptance. That's what the Democratic socialists are doing.
[36:25]
Interviewer
Limited success, very limited. So you don't think the socialists are going to take over the Democratic Party?
[36:31]
Willie Brown
No, I do not. No, I do not. Until they can do what the Democrats have done on the health care side. When Nancy Pelosi picked up where Hillary had left off and ultimately got the health care measure enacted, even Republicans voted for it. The beneficiaries of it turned out to be all Americans, period. Including the ones that didn't vote for the people who were voting for that measure. So the performance base at some point becomes a reality in this democracy and when it does, limited application for admission becomes a problem to be solved.
[37:27]
Interviewer
To what do you credit your extraordinary longevity? I'm sitting with you today. You are 92 years old. You are sharp as attack intellectually. I would wear that suit tomorrow. I consider myself a bit of a fashion guy.
[37:43]
Willie Brown
You look great.
[37:44]
Interviewer
You sound great. What's the secret?
[37:47]
Willie Brown
So what's my survivability? Well, I'm not sure that I have.
[37:56]
Interviewer
You see what I'm getting at?
[37:57]
Willie Brown
Yeah, I, I'm not sure that I have a, a real formula for applicability. I want it to everybody fortunately there that I have enjoyed really good health. I have enjoyed hard work. That was the foundation of my Texas heritage. I didn't arrive in California Till I was 17 years old and I graduated from a high school, Mineola, Texas. And it was a Mineola colored high.
[38:35]
Interviewer
Mineola colored high.
[38:37]
Willie Brown
Yes. It's, you know, it was a little town of 4,500 people 80 miles southeast of Dallas and it was an all black school when I got here with the intentions of going to Stanford and becoming a math teacher, a math professor. I couldn't get into centric because I did not have the credentials, preparatory speaking, that would allow you as a high school graduate. And when they were looking at my record, I was looking at the cost. And when they told me, you can't, you won't be admitted, I thanked him very much because I said, you rejected me before. I rejected you because I was prepared to reject you after I read what you judge people. And they laughed about that. But the guy that was interviewing me said, this is your lucky day. Why is it my lucky day? You just told me I'm not admitted. He said, I don't work here. I'm moonlighting here, making extra money. I teach in the hate at a college called San Francisco State College, not university. And he said, they are so interested in students, I think I can admit you as if you applied. But you got to promise you'll work as hard as your high school classes, as limited as they were, demonstrates that you are a hard worker. If you promise to do that, I'll say your application was for SF State and you live up there anyway. Because I lived in Asia at the time. I just moved here, but I lived
[40:34]
Interviewer
in the Haight, Ashley Haight, Ashbury district.
[40:36]
Willie Brown
That's right. And lo and behold, I lived at 1028 Oak Street, Oak and Visitoro in the city. And believe me, I entered SF State and I was amazed. You know, you have to buy books. Well, it just so happens that a number of the students were veterans and the federal government, great wisdom. After you did military service, they had some assistance for furthering your college education if you had already started or starting your college education. So the GI Bill was a real significant social movement piece. Those same guys bought the books at the bookstore and then they won some cases, didn't like the class right away and would sell the books. I became a book broker.
[41:40]
Interviewer
That's great. That's fantastic.
[41:43]
Willie Brown
So believe me, if you are interested enough, the survivability in this system that we live in is there. You too can become a billionaire.
[41:59]
Interviewer
What is the single best piece of advice you can give young people today who want to go into politics that
[42:08]
Willie Brown
they really should take advantage of? Some of the people who are in politics, have been in politics, and who are willing to share skill sets with them on how to develop into a successful seeker of public office, period? I do that. As a matter of fact, let me tell you, there's no issue for me. When Kamala Harris asked for my help, she was a great prosecutor in the East Bay, Alameda County. Her specialty was dealing with matters affecting Families and particularly kids. And she was tough in that position. She wanted more, moved to San Francisco and did more. Nissim wanted to be an actor. By accident, he helped get me elected, hanging out once or twice a week, hitting the bars for vote purposes.
[43:26]
Interviewer
So he would campaign for you?
[43:27]
Willie Brown
He. He and his friend Billy Getty campaigned for me. They had never campaigned for anybody before, but they became fascinated in their business of running drinking places and eating places for burgers and things like that. And they offered to volunteer on my behalf. And they were in their 20s. In their 20s, like the people today that you ask me about, or in their 20s. And they wanted to learn, however, what I was doing. Not that they were interested in running.
[44:02]
Venmo User 2
Right.
[44:02]
Interviewer
But they're running PlumpJack, right. Selling wine and burgers and doing what they do.
[44:06]
Willie Brown
They have three or four joints. Yeah. Very successful restaurants, very successful and.
[44:11]
Interviewer
But they knew how to parlay that into potentially political influence. By supporting you.
[44:17]
Willie Brown
They learned by supporting me. They learned by demonstrating on my behalf, and they expanded their contact. Political success depends upon your doing the hard work of becoming the person who causes other people to. To help you rise in the political system. In each case, the opportunity was there because not only did I put Newsom on the parking and traffic, I put Billy Getty on one that he was interested in. He was a dog person, and he thought that the public parks were not exactly accommodating as they should be for pets. And clearly he loved the idea more than Newsom did or his appointment. He loved the idea, but that's the kind of thing you need to do. And that's the advice that I would give to young people for your initial question.
[45:27]
Interviewer
Why have politics become so nasty? Well, you know what I'm saying. It's always been rough and tumble, but, you know, a generation ago or two generations ago, Reagan would be diametrically opposed to Tip O'.
[45:44]
Chris Hansen
Neill.
[45:44]
Interviewer
But, you know, on St. Patrick's Day, they'd be standing on the corner outside the Dubliner having a beer together. But that doesn't. That doesn't always happen anymore. Sometimes it does.
[45:53]
Willie Brown
It's still happening.
[45:55]
Interviewer
Yeah.
[45:55]
Willie Brown
In reality, do you think it's more
[45:56]
Interviewer
vitriolic today than it was?
[45:58]
Willie Brown
It's just not covered. Yeah. That way. Right. The coverage that's being generated by really inexperienced communicators, both on the journalist side and the non journalist side. The whole business of the method by which social media proceeds now, in some cases, untruthful, not accurate without being untruthful, just not accurate, because the work hasn't been done to get you there. Just think about it. At one time, you flip on the switch for television and there would be Walter Cronkite, and you'd listen to everything Walter said. Any examination of an elected official or an applicant that Walter would engage in would be instructional not only for the public, but for the person seeking to
[47:08]
Interviewer
impress Walden and for guys like me in the business.
[47:11]
Willie Brown
Correct? No question. So all those factors really need to be cultivated and embraced and cultivated, period. I would tell you that the volume of communications in many cases now adversely impacts the attractiveness of pursuing public office, Period.
[47:43]
Interviewer
What is your priority today? Not today as in this Saturday morning, but in your life at this moment. What's your priority?
[47:52]
Willie Brown
What?
[47:53]
Interviewer
What's the most important thing to Willie Brown today?
[47:56]
Willie Brown
Well, I have children and grandchildren and I'm trying my best to get them to finish what I started.
[48:08]
Interviewer
I hope they do. Thank you, Charles.
[48:11]
Willie Brown
I really hope they do.
[48:12]
Interviewer
I appreciate your time because I think they're talented enough.
[48:18]
Chris Hansen
Well, I think that's going to make some headlines. Thanks for joining us and have a seat with Chris Hansen. We'll see you next Wednesday. Monday, another episode of Predators I've Caught. And on Thursdays on my streaming network, True Blue, another episode of Takedown with Chris Hansen, our Predator investigative series.
[48:35]
Interviewer
Much more to come. Until then, I'll be watching and listening.
[48:53]
Venmo User 1
Have you seen any dinosaurs?
[48:55]
Interviewer
What kind of question is that? On August 14, I think that our neighborhood has moved. We're in the past.
[49:06]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
Summer ends on Oak street. Run from producer J.J. abrams, Anne Hathaway, Ewan McGregor. We're gonna survive the end of Oak Street. Directed by David Robert Mitchell. Rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. August the 14th.
[49:25]
Interviewer
I'm not giving up. I am selling the building.
[49:30]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
The final season of FX is the Bear.
[49:34]
Chris Hansen
The restaurant is flooded.
[49:36]
Willie Brown
Everything's either gonna be okay.
[49:39]
Interviewer
No, stop.
[49:40]
Willie Brown
Or not.
[49:42]
Interviewer
We are outgunned and we are outmanned.
[49:45]
Willie Brown
But we have each other.
[49:47]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
FX's the bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney.

Summary7 min read

Podcast Summary

Overview

Episode Title:
Willie Brown: New York Is Proof Socialism Doesn't Work
Podcast:
Have A Seat with Chris Hansen
Air Date:
August 12, 2026

In this episode, Chris Hansen holds an in-depth and candid conversation with former San Francisco mayor and California political legend Willie Brown. Brown, at 92 and still sharp, reflects on his extraordinary life in public service, the state of the Democratic party, the rise of Democratic Socialists in American politics—with a pointed critique of New York’s current leadership—and the future prospects for the Democratic presidential nomination. The episode blends political history, personal anecdote, and blunt assessment of today’s political landscape.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Willie Brown’s Approach to Public Service & Political Success

[01:50–06:40]

Brown attributes his political success to discipline, a focus on pleasing the electorate across party lines, and hard work, instilled since his youth in Texas.
He discusses his unique ability to work with both Republicans and Democrats, even being elected Speaker of the California Assembly with bipartisan support.
Brown offers examples of legislative wins requiring cross-party cooperation, such as an assault weapons ban signed by Republican Governor George Deukmejian after an emotional intervention.

Notable Quote:
“Literally my conduct and what I believe in... have always been for the express purpose of having people be pleased with it at every level, whether they're Republicans or Democrats or independents…”
— Willie Brown [02:18]

2. The Current State of the Democratic Party

[06:41–07:52]

Brown expresses concern about the decline in the “best and brightest” entering public office, lamenting that too many today focus only on getting elected, rather than on true governance and problem-solving.

Notable Quote:
“We don't have the best and the brightest. What we have are people who can figure out how to get elected... and they like to keep on being elected.”
— Willie Brown [06:48]

3. The Rise and Limitations of Democratic Socialism in US Politics

[07:52–10:41, 13:34–15:15]

Brown is blunt: “New York has proven that [socialism] can't work,” criticizing the city’s current leadership under Zoran Mamdani and likening the Democratic Socialist movement to an exercise in tactics, not lasting policy.
He links the decline in accountability among current officeholders to altered election rules and weaker public scrutiny.
Brown draws parallels to similar political shifts in other cities, such as Denver, and suggests the so-called socialist movement is more about symbolism and critique than tangible delivery.

Notable Quote:
“That person has been elected... and with the same kind of concept. And he has literally disrupted the lives of some very talented people... The accountability... is so much lower than it was years ago.”
— Willie Brown [13:39]

Brown argues that socialist candidates are often not serious about actual governance:
“They are looking for a vehicle to elevate the level of criticism, charging quality people... and that obviously has generated an opportunity to be on a platform with zero responsibility to perform.”
— Willie Brown [15:15]

4. Reflections on Political Scandal and Candidate Quality

[10:41–11:48]

Discussing the downfall of Eric Swalwell and others, Brown opines that talent pool issues are worsened by scandal and lack of self-discipline in candidates.

5. On “Democratic Socialism” and Attacks on the Wealthy

[17:20–20:15]

Brown objects to targeting billionaires for the sake of populist politics, defending the notion of the American Dream and the need for a fair—yet incentivizing—tax system.

Notable Quote:
“I am not about trying to make this country similar to some place that has some other rules. People come into this country because they prospectively have the American dream and the American dream sometimes produces wealthy results…”
— Willie Brown [17:42]

6. The Future of the Democratic Party

[20:15–21:28]

When asked if figures like Mamdani and AOC represent the party’s future, Brown is unequivocal: “They cannot be the future... so far they have no program that speaks to the needs of people. They have a program that gets people elected and excited about prospects with zero performance, period.”
— [20:27]
He draws a parallel between “Democratic Socialist” and Trumpian politics—both obsessed with control, not delivery.

7. Political Advice & Respect for Elders

[21:04–22:29, 41:58–45:26]

Brown laments that too few politicians consult elders with proven experience: “They don't mean harm. They just don't understand how to get there and do no harm.” [21:28]
He encourages young aspiring politicians to seek mentorship from seasoned figures and learn the value of coalition-building and hard work.
He shares anecdotes of helping Kamala Harris and Gavin Newsom launch their careers.

8. 2028 Presidential Nominations: Newsom vs. Harris & Other Potential Candidates

[22:29–31:32]

Brown shares his unique position as mentor and confidant to both Newsom and Harris, assesses their credentials, and argues Newsom is more electable:
“I really think that Gavin Newsom... has a better current agenda in pursuit of that office with the practicality of being persuasive enough to get people to vote for him.”
— Willie Brown [22:53]
Brown calls out the persistent challenges faced by women in US politics (“this country just did not [is not] ready for a woman”), credits Harris's career achievements, but suggests the nomination should go to Newsom, with Harris supporting him for party unity.
Discussion expands to Whitmer, Shapiro, Bashar, and Pritzker as promising, but he dismisses AOC as “not electable as President.” [31:17]

9. The Appeal and Realities of Socialist Movements Among Young Voters

[31:32–32:45]

Brown criticizes the practicality and scalability of the socialist platform, asserting such candidates can only win niche locales, not national contests.

10. Zoran Mamdani and the Socialists’ Prospects in New York and Beyond

[34:39–36:31]

Brown is cautious but skeptical about Mamdani’s impact in New York, doubting his skills can translate to broader national leadership: “He got elected. But he doesn't have the good sense to make that a reality for a majority of Americans...” [35:06]
He warns of the risks when political movements ride social media fads (like TikTok) rather than substantive coalition-building.

11. Civility Then and Now: The State of Political Discourse

[45:26–47:43]

Brown argues that while politics seems nastier, civility often persists—it's just less reported.
“The coverage that's being generated by really inexperienced communicators... adversely impacts the attractiveness of pursuing public office, Period.”
— Willie Brown [47:43]

12. Willie Brown’s Longevity & Advice for the Next Generation

[37:27–48:07]

Brown credits his longevity to good health, hard work, and adaptability, recounting humble beginnings and clever workarounds (e.g., brokering college textbooks).
His advice to young would-be politicians: leverage the wisdom and contacts of experienced leaders, and build coalitions from the ground up.

Notable Quote:
“If you are interested enough, the survivability in this system that we live in is there. You too can become a billionaire.”
— Willie Brown [41:42]

“My priority now? I have children and grandchildren and I'm trying my best to get them to finish what I started.”
— Willie Brown [47:55]

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

“Literally my conduct and what I believe in... have always been for the express purpose of having people be pleased with it at every level, whether they're Republicans or Democrats or independents…”
— Willie Brown [02:18]
“New York has proven that it can't work.”
— Willie Brown, on socialism in city government [08:12]
“We don't have the best and the brightest. What we have are people who can figure out how to get elected... and they like to keep on being elected.”
— Willie Brown [06:48]
“They [the Democratic Socialists] have a program that gets people elected and excited about prospects with zero performance, period. Not unlike, obviously, Trump.”
— Willie Brown [20:27]
“I would urge Kamala Harris to enjoy the credit of the achievements that she has benefited by... And the two of them ought to be about talking to all of us Democrats every day of the week. We can do it again. Let's give Newsom the deal.”
— Willie Brown on 2028 Democratic nomination [25:46]

Episode Timeline

[01:09–03:08] — Willie Brown on his approach as San Francisco mayor & bipartisan record
[03:08–06:40] — Legislative highlights, working with GOP governors
[06:41–07:52] — The decline in Democratic party talent & focus
[07:52–10:41] — Socialism’s limits, accountability in public office
[13:34–15:15] — Critique of Mamdani's approach and the Democratic Socialist movement
[17:20–20:15] — Attacks on wealth, American Dream, and the role of taxation
[20:15–21:28] — Is socialism the party's future? Parallels to Trump
[22:29–31:32] — Newsom vs. Harris and 2028 Democratic nomination
[34:39–36:31] — Mamdani’s performance and social media politics
[37:27–48:07] — Brown’s longevity, advice for young politicians, and closing reflections

Final Thoughts

Willie Brown, one of the Democratic party’s living architects, provides a sobering—and often witty—take on the future of American politics. He is deeply skeptical of the Democratic Socialist wave, champions the value of experience, urges respect for political elders, and encourages young people to focus on substance and relationships over slogans and social media traction. His hope for the party’s future lies in capable leaders like Gavin Newsom and Kamala Harris, but he insists both the party and nation must do better at nurturing true talent for public service.

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Transcript143 lines

[00:00]
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[00:30]
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[01:10]
Chris Hansen
He is 92 years old. Intellectually he is sharp as a tack and his suits are cut sharp as a knife. I'm talking about Willie Brown, the former mayor of San Francisco. He also led the state legislature in California for many years. He is a political kingmaker. He knows Gavin Newsom well. He made Gavin Newsom's career. He knows Kamala Harris well. And wait until you hear what he has to say about the upcoming 2028 election. People like Zoran Mamdani, the mayor of New York and the so called Democratic Socialist Party. We need to mind our elders.
[01:51]
Interviewer
Mr. Brown, it's a pleasure to be here with you and thank you for being so gracious as to give us time to talk to you about this. As mayor you experienced incredible popularity with the citizens, with the policeman, with the firemen, and you experienced incredible economic growth in this city. What made you such a successful mayor of San Francisco?
[02:18]
Willie Brown
Well, I probably think it started with who I am, for openers. Literally my conduct and what I believe in and how I've done things have always been for the express purpose of having people be pleased with it at every level, whether they're Republicans or Democrats or independents or decline the state. It doesn't matter. All of my life I've been about from the time I was 17 years of age and first arriving here from Texas, my mother and my uncle had made sure that there was some discipline being exercised by me and conduct in every way. And the foundation of that obviously, is who you are as a person.
[03:08]
Interviewer
Was being mayor of San Francisco the best job you ever had?
[03:13]
Willie Brown
Not really. It certainly equals any of the jobs that I've had, if not ultimately in some cases exceeded them, because I was only mayor for eight years. And during that time period I had to spend a part of my time reforming the electoral collection of people trying to run the city because there was still lots of the nonsense that goes with trying to have the rules blend for you, not for the public. Once I managed to overcome that hurdle, it became a really great, great, pleasant place for me as an elected official. But you see, I had been 32 years in the halls of the legislature, and 12 and a half of those years I had been leading the House Republicans and Democrats. And I got elected the only person ever elected up there to lead the place with being both Republicans and Democrats voting for me. And in one case, more Republicans than Democrats. In addition, there too, I managed to establish a worker relationship with the governors. I had three governors. I had Jerry Brown for two years only, but I had Duke Mahen and Wilson for all the other years of my life who were Republicans or Republicans and worked well. For an example, a fellow named Mike Ruth, a buddy of mine who had been one of my founding strategists, moved back to LA to run the school district. And just before he left, he really, really genuinely wanted a ban on assault weapons here. We had had the shooting in the schoolyard in Stockton. We had had a couple of other shootings. And he really made himself and devoted himself to exactly that. A Republican governor. No way you're going to get that signed easily. We went to work and Duke Machin signed that bill. I took him to a funeral of a family who had child had been the victim of such a shooting. And he cried at the funeral. And that's when I knew he would sign it. And then we had a woman named Maxine Waters. I remember one of the other folk who had been pushing for a while to try to figure out how to get Nelson Mandela out of prison in Africa, South Africa. Of all cases that occurred, I cite those two because they were both decisions had to have the signature of the governors. And in this case it wasn't Jerry Brown who left in 82 right from the polls of the legislature and didn't come back till he came to Oakland as the mayor of that in the. In. In this century, not the last century. And then we had to have those two governors sign those Bills you would think there'd be no way the governors would sign.
[06:40]
Interviewer
But you got it done.
[06:41]
Willie Brown
We got it.
[06:43]
Interviewer
What would you say is the state of the Democratic Party today?
[06:48]
Willie Brown
The Democratic Party is unfortunately troubled and in sometimes stymied by the absence of the real quality people running for public office. People don't really do that anymore. People don't go to school to try to become an elected official. This country was founded with the most talented period. That constitution we live by was written by bright, able people, dedicated people. This country was literally, as I said, founded and the Constitution was written. And it wouldn't have been done but people who were not the best and the brightest at that time, we don't have that anymore. We don't have the best and the brightest. What we have are people who can figure out how to get elected and. And that's it. And they like to keep on being elected. So they spent more time doing that than they do trying to orchestrate problem solving solutions, period.
[07:52]
Interviewer
We've seen a lot of people in the Democratic Party call themselves socialists. The Democratic Socialist Party, there's a wing, and I know you're aware of this. What do you make of that? And is there any city in America where that can actually work?
[08:12]
Willie Brown
No. New York has proven that it can't work. That person has been elected and that person was elected when all the rules have been altered so that you don't run it as a Republican, you don't run as a Democrat, you can run a combination of the two. And that essentially in part is what has been done. And the accountability of people seeking and ultimately holding public office is so much lower than it was years ago, was when I first started. And so we Democrats are frankly in trouble. We need to do some real recruiting. Just think, we've got a Governor General election going on here in California at the moment and we have had two or three candidates have to drop out because of allegations of misconduct, serious criminal
[09:15]
Interviewer
allegations in the case of Eric Stalwell.
[09:18]
Willie Brown
And believe me, that robs us because let's take Eric. It was, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago or so. He ran against probably the best person holding public office at the congressional level dedicated to health care, a guy named Pete Stark. Most of them, probably people don't remember him, but he was peacenik. But more importantly a dedicated person trying to get universal health care. That was his goal and he was doing a great job. This young deputy district attorney who was just starting in life, wanted to be a congressperson and knew that he could ring doorbells against the old, the elderly, and against the guy who didn't want to have to come home from, from Washington every week in order to go to crazy events going on in his district. And he didn't. And as a result of his not coming home, Eric Swalwell beat him. And Eric was a prosecutor at the time. Obviously his discipline didn't control him. Once he got in the spotlight, he conducted himself highly inappropriate.
[10:41]
Interviewer
Well, and in the Swalwell case, we're not talking about somebody who's got a colorful lifestyle or may have been accused of being a womanizer. We're talking about accusations of physical abuse, choking things, drugging women. I mean, things that are serious and things that should arguably keep somebody from even being considered for public office.
[11:05]
Willie Brown
No question whatsoever. But he was not when he was a da he clearly was not doing any of those things. He was in a way, in a space and a place where the requirement for self discipline was all encompassing. And he obviously did that.
[11:26]
Interviewer
Couldn't handle it.
[11:27]
Willie Brown
He couldn't have gotten elected. But once you get elected, you are a star, you are a superstar, and you can become misled very easily. The attractiveness of the attention generated by whom holding public office is enormous. You never get over it.
[11:49]
Chris Hansen
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[12:00]
Interviewer
And that's one of the reasons why
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[13:05]
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[13:07]
Interviewer
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[13:34]
Interviewer
Priceline. What do you think of the job Zorin Mamdani has done in New York?
[13:39]
Willie Brown
Thus far, he hasn't done anything except get people elected in the way that he got elected and with the same kind of concept. And he has literally disrupted the lives of some very talented people who were consistently embraced and reelected by their constituency. All of the problems that exist in our system now need attention, obviously, or I should say many of the problems in the promise to the public that you or I will fix the problem sometimes can be incompetent and cause bad things to happen, electorally speaking. And those things happen. And not just in New York, but just happened in Denver. The woman there got unelected by one of those socialist Democrats or democratic socialists and whatever they call themselves. If you are really serious about doing things electorally speaking, you know, we didn't need to change a party. You can change, do it the way we have done it in the past and the way I did it.
[14:58]
Interviewer
Where does this notion of socialism come from? I can't find a case where it's ever worked, where it's ever created great economic growth or stability. I mean, is this a generation of kids who just don't understand the mechanics of economics in a big city?
[15:15]
Willie Brown
Your question is rooted in the assumption that they're serious. They are really not, because they do not instantly begin to try to do what. In my college classes and yours, we had an understanding of what socialism was, and there is no question that that definition is available. But that's not what they're doing. They're looking for a vehicle to elevate the level of criticism, charging quality people doing their best to change the system and answer all the questions and treat all the problems, they say to the voting public, only by the way, in a convenient way created by the people they're running against, not by the system seriously. And that obviously has generated an opportunity to be on a platform with zero responsibility to perform. The new mayor of New York has now been there for a while and what has he done? He's elected three others of his kind, eliminating some very talented people. The thing that I'm more fascinated with is the fact that only one or two of those so called Democratic socialists have gone beyond simply being elected, period. I think that people like the lady across the bay who, who took Barbara Lee's seat, Letitia, she's really trying her best. She's associating with them but not being controlled by them. She's trying to use them to get the next step and change in Oakland. How do you, from a congressional standpoint,
[17:20]
Interviewer
how do you react when you see Mom Donnie essentially attack billionaires in New York City, expose their addresses, claim that nobody should be that wealthy, that they should be taxed just because they're billionaires and they have property but their main residence is someplace else. How do you react to that?
[17:42]
Willie Brown
I say that I really want to be a real American under the guise of people like Abraham Lincoln, like Thomas Jefferson, like the people who set this place up and modified it accordingly. And occasionally I want to do that kind of thing. I am not about trying to make this country similar to some place that has some other rules. People come into this country because they prospectively have the American dream in the American dream sometimes produces wealthy results for people who really follow it and invent something, come up with something new, write a new play, write a series of play, write books, do the create a
[18:44]
Interviewer
product that's right that engage in commerce
[18:48]
Willie Brown
that's available and that can be made available. But simultaneously we have to care enough about each other to do something of Sharon if we can. Otherwise the tax system wouldn't work unless we had a tax system that made it possible for you that earns more than I earn to pay. But we pay in the same way and we're contributing for the benefit of the people. Health care wise, safety wise. I don't think it makes any sense to seriously think about the nature of what you know and what you read about socialism over the years. But we've got to be, and we really got to be dedicated to doing serious work about immigration. We got to do serious work about education. We got to do serious work about every aspect of health care. The nature of people living within the framework of some of the things that they have become restricted to because of disability on their part, not because we need to be taken care of. That's not what's occurring. As a so called Democratic socialist, do
[20:16]
Interviewer
you think that Zorin Mandami AOC Some of these other Democratic Socialists are the future of the Democratic Party? What's going to happen to the Democratic
[20:28]
Willie Brown
Party cannot be the future of the Democratic Party because so far they have no program that speaks to the needs of people. They have a program that gets people elected and excited about prospects with zero performance, period. Not unlike, obviously, Trump. The conduct of the two mirrors each other because the goals are the same. Just get control.
[21:04]
Interviewer
Do you think we respect our elders in America? If I'm the mayor of New York, the mayor of Los Angeles, the mayor of San Francisco, I'm going to pick up the phone and call Willie Brown and say, hey, what do you think about this? You were here, you're 92 years old. You've seen it all. Give me some insight.
[21:29]
Willie Brown
Well, be clear. It's not unusual for newly elected people whom I believe mean well. They don't mean harm. They just don't understand how to get there and do no harm. They just don't grasp what needs to be done. We are fortunate because we still have folk who seek elective office, want to get elected to public office, and doing so with a promised responsibility for a legitimate result that addresses affordable housing, that addresses safety, that addresses education, that addresses the things why government success, period. And till that end, those are the kind of people that we ought to try to encourage.
[22:29]
Interviewer
You have a unique position because, you know, through politics and through personal relationships, two people who could end up being potentially the Democratic nominee For President in 2028, Kamala Harris and the current governor of California, Gavin Newsom. Without getting you into trouble, who do you think's got the best shot at being president?
[22:54]
Willie Brown
I really think that Gavin Newsom, the current governor of this state, on a practical basis, politically, has a better current agenda in pursuit of that office with the practicality of being persuasive enough to get people to vote for him. Kamala Harris was a district attorney of San Francisco. I supported her. He supported her. He was the mayor of San Francisco. I supported him and she supported him. There is no way in the world that from those two purchase, one elected district attorney, he elected mayor, and then that too went up almost simultaneously. One became the lieutenant governor, one became the attorney general of the state of California, and then suddenly one became the governor and one became a US Senator. You wonder aloud how two people that are about the same age, two people that came from the same collection of support base, people who perform well enough to get elevated to really significant electoral positions, people who have not been tracked with anything that would disqualify you from holding public office, period. You would think that there have to be some way, particularly he Governor Xi, vice president. No woman in this country has ever reached that level as a woman because we still have a Problem elected women to public office. We just don't do it the way it's done in some other countries. She has reached that incredible level of vice president and had an opportunity if by accident she could have been the president. That's a reality. She then could not get elected to the job running against Trump because this country just did not ready for a woman. Hillary would have been elected if it had been ready for a woman. And in view of that, on a practical basis, I would urge Kamala Harris to enjoy the credit of the achievements that she has benefited by from the support base that's Newsom and the support base that's Harris. And the two of them ought to be about talking to all of us Democrats every day of the week. We can do it again. Let's give Newsom the deal.
[26:07]
Interviewer
So you think Kamala Harris should step aside and support Gavin Newsom?
[26:11]
Willie Brown
I do.
[26:13]
Interviewer
In 2028 as president?
[26:14]
Willie Brown
I do.
[26:15]
Interviewer
And do you think Gavin Newsom would be a good president?
[26:19]
Willie Brown
I think Gavin Newsom would do the job. He's going to have to prove just as he did at the state level, that he can do the job. I started his career, I appointed him to the first involvement in government he ever had. And it's kind of interesting because it was to be chair of the traffic commission. Parking and traffic is what I assigned him to do. He wanted to be a movie guy. He wanted to go and be a film star. And I promised him that I would name him to the film commission. And then I discovered I didn't have a vacancy. The only vacancy I had was parking and traffic.
[27:12]
Interviewer
So we went there.
[27:13]
Willie Brown
I named him without telling him. He took it and respected by naming him and I instantly named him chairman because in the second or third meeting of that body, it was clear that on that body he really had the skill set to make it work. You read all the rules and what have you. And so it was a good choice on my part ultimately and a good acceptance by him. He may able to demonstrate that same quality. After all, he's had two great teachers who are still alive that have been president Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
[27:55]
Interviewer
Do you think Kamala Harris would be a good president?
[27:57]
Willie Brown
I do. I think Kamala Harris, if she made the presidency. But making the presidency and getting elected to the presidency, the stir place.
[28:08]
Interviewer
One of the criticisms of Kamala Harris is that she engages in word salad, right? She doesn't effectively get her point across, maybe doesn't effectively convey her level of intelligence or political experience. What do you say to that?
[28:24]
Willie Brown
I think that that's a bum shot by people. Just think about it. If you have the chance to defeat the incumbent district attorney because people thought you were better and you proved to be better, you then became the Attorney General, you defeated the District Attorney of Los Angeles who was running for Attorney General in a state that had not elected a Democratic Attorney General in a long time. And you, a woman, ran and beat him. And just think, not only is she a woman, she's a woman of color. A combination of all those factors required her to demonstrate her ability. And believe me, anybody who would see her cross examination of candidates being appointed by the President Trump, in this case for the Supreme Court or other places, no one was better qualified as a US Senator to be doing that questioning. And it had come from the experience of being a DA da, An Attorney General, and she had demonstrated ability as a prosecutor and she used it carefully and cleverly. So when someone says she's not quite ready, no, she's not quite ready to do trivia,
[29:58]
Interviewer
but she could do the job, do you think?
[29:59]
Willie Brown
As good as anybody.
[30:02]
Interviewer
What do you think about Josh Shapiro and Andy Bashar?
[30:06]
Willie Brown
We have four or five potential good candidates. The woman that I thought should have been a candidate was. Was a woman from Michigan, the Governor of Michigan, who should have been a candidate.
[30:20]
Interviewer
Gretchen Whitmer.
[30:20]
Willie Brown
That's right. She said, however, about three weeks ago, a month ago, that she is finished with her electoral politics, doesn't want to do it anymore while trying to run the state of Michigan. I can understand her displeasure, but I had hoped that she'd be there. I certainly think the two candidates potentially that you mentioned, but there may be others, I don't think. Yeah, I love the opportunity to see the dialogue that includes the guy from Illinois as a possible candidate. And I'm going to suspect that the woman from New York who started this business of the so called socialist Democrats may very well be aoc. Aoc?
[31:15]
Interviewer
Is AOC electable as President?
[31:18]
Willie Brown
No, of course not. But you ask about the quality of the candidates. The quality of the candidates seldom if ever is matched by the public acceptance of the candidates.
[31:32]
Interviewer
Why do young people embrace some of this socialist stuff? AOC and Mamdani and mayors of other cities that we've seen, I mean, it's pretty radical stuff.
[31:48]
Willie Brown
It is beyond any possibility of reality in a democracy. In this democracy, you have to be persuasive enough with your ideas so that in the electoral process you win the public's embracement. That's not what that crowd is doing,
[32:13]
Interviewer
but they're getting they're getting attention. They're getting elected.
[32:16]
Willie Brown
They certainly are. But in limited jurisdictions, in limited capacities that the hundreds of millions of people that in America, with all those various states, the applicability of either one of them rising to the level of electability in those states is unbelievably impossible.
[32:46]
Chris Hansen
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[33:58]
Interviewer
Fix it.
[33:59]
Chris Hansen
Don't be a victim. Protect your Equity today. That's hometitlelock.com promo code Hanson H A N S E N. Or use the link below.
[34:09]
Venmo User 1
Hey, I just Venmoed you for rent.
[34:11]
Venmo User 2
Nice. Now I can instantly spend it whether I'm checking out online with Venmo or using a Venmo debit card.
[34:17]
Venmo User 1
Say more.
[34:18]
Venmo User 2
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[34:26]
Venmo User 1
So order more pizza.
[34:27]
Venmo User 2
The meth demands it.
[34:29]
Venmo User 1
Get the Venmo debit card.
[34:30]
Venmo User 2
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[34:39]
Interviewer
Do you think Zoran Mamdami could cause destruction in New York City? Could. Could damage this city?
[34:49]
Willie Brown
I hope not. And I don't want to assume and I don't want to be associated with the assumption that he doesn't have the skill level of an elected official. He does that.
[35:05]
Interviewer
He got elected.
[35:07]
Willie Brown
Got elected. But he doesn't have the good sense to make that a reality for a majority of Americans so far.
[35:17]
Interviewer
Do you worry that he was a tick tock phenomenon and not the kind of guy who can actually run a city like New York, which requires relationships? Diamond. And that's all these hitters, that's part
[35:29]
Willie Brown
of the risk you get in a democracy. And that's why they, that crowd, as small as the crowd is, they are trying to rewrite how and so far they've only been successful in a limited number of jurisdictions.
[35:48]
Interviewer
What would you say to Zoran Mandami? What would you tell him, given your vast experience and success running a major city?
[35:58]
Willie Brown
I would tell him that he really should do his best to try to become persuasive in getting elected. Which means universal acceptance, not limited, very cleverly, tactical acceptance. That's what the Democratic socialists are doing.
[36:25]
Interviewer
Limited success, very limited. So you don't think the socialists are going to take over the Democratic Party?
[36:31]
Willie Brown
No, I do not. No, I do not. Until they can do what the Democrats have done on the health care side. When Nancy Pelosi picked up where Hillary had left off and ultimately got the health care measure enacted, even Republicans voted for it. The beneficiaries of it turned out to be all Americans, period. Including the ones that didn't vote for the people who were voting for that measure. So the performance base at some point becomes a reality in this democracy and when it does, limited application for admission becomes a problem to be solved.
[37:27]
Interviewer
To what do you credit your extraordinary longevity? I'm sitting with you today. You are 92 years old. You are sharp as attack intellectually. I would wear that suit tomorrow. I consider myself a bit of a fashion guy.
[37:43]
Willie Brown
You look great.
[37:44]
Interviewer
You sound great. What's the secret?
[37:47]
Willie Brown
So what's my survivability? Well, I'm not sure that I have.
[37:56]
Interviewer
You see what I'm getting at?
[37:57]
Willie Brown
Yeah, I, I'm not sure that I have a, a real formula for applicability. I want it to everybody fortunately there that I have enjoyed really good health. I have enjoyed hard work. That was the foundation of my Texas heritage. I didn't arrive in California Till I was 17 years old and I graduated from a high school, Mineola, Texas. And it was a Mineola colored high.
[38:35]
Interviewer
Mineola colored high.
[38:37]
Willie Brown
Yes. It's, you know, it was a little town of 4,500 people 80 miles southeast of Dallas and it was an all black school when I got here with the intentions of going to Stanford and becoming a math teacher, a math professor. I couldn't get into centric because I did not have the credentials, preparatory speaking, that would allow you as a high school graduate. And when they were looking at my record, I was looking at the cost. And when they told me, you can't, you won't be admitted, I thanked him very much because I said, you rejected me before. I rejected you because I was prepared to reject you after I read what you judge people. And they laughed about that. But the guy that was interviewing me said, this is your lucky day. Why is it my lucky day? You just told me I'm not admitted. He said, I don't work here. I'm moonlighting here, making extra money. I teach in the hate at a college called San Francisco State College, not university. And he said, they are so interested in students, I think I can admit you as if you applied. But you got to promise you'll work as hard as your high school classes, as limited as they were, demonstrates that you are a hard worker. If you promise to do that, I'll say your application was for SF State and you live up there anyway. Because I lived in Asia at the time. I just moved here, but I lived
[40:34]
Interviewer
in the Haight, Ashley Haight, Ashbury district.
[40:36]
Willie Brown
That's right. And lo and behold, I lived at 1028 Oak Street, Oak and Visitoro in the city. And believe me, I entered SF State and I was amazed. You know, you have to buy books. Well, it just so happens that a number of the students were veterans and the federal government, great wisdom. After you did military service, they had some assistance for furthering your college education if you had already started or starting your college education. So the GI Bill was a real significant social movement piece. Those same guys bought the books at the bookstore and then they won some cases, didn't like the class right away and would sell the books. I became a book broker.
[41:40]
Interviewer
That's great. That's fantastic.
[41:43]
Willie Brown
So believe me, if you are interested enough, the survivability in this system that we live in is there. You too can become a billionaire.
[41:59]
Interviewer
What is the single best piece of advice you can give young people today who want to go into politics that
[42:08]
Willie Brown
they really should take advantage of? Some of the people who are in politics, have been in politics, and who are willing to share skill sets with them on how to develop into a successful seeker of public office, period? I do that. As a matter of fact, let me tell you, there's no issue for me. When Kamala Harris asked for my help, she was a great prosecutor in the East Bay, Alameda County. Her specialty was dealing with matters affecting Families and particularly kids. And she was tough in that position. She wanted more, moved to San Francisco and did more. Nissim wanted to be an actor. By accident, he helped get me elected, hanging out once or twice a week, hitting the bars for vote purposes.
[43:26]
Interviewer
So he would campaign for you?
[43:27]
Willie Brown
He. He and his friend Billy Getty campaigned for me. They had never campaigned for anybody before, but they became fascinated in their business of running drinking places and eating places for burgers and things like that. And they offered to volunteer on my behalf. And they were in their 20s. In their 20s, like the people today that you ask me about, or in their 20s. And they wanted to learn, however, what I was doing. Not that they were interested in running.
[44:02]
Venmo User 2
Right.
[44:02]
Interviewer
But they're running PlumpJack, right. Selling wine and burgers and doing what they do.
[44:06]
Willie Brown
They have three or four joints. Yeah. Very successful restaurants, very successful and.
[44:11]
Interviewer
But they knew how to parlay that into potentially political influence. By supporting you.
[44:17]
Willie Brown
They learned by supporting me. They learned by demonstrating on my behalf, and they expanded their contact. Political success depends upon your doing the hard work of becoming the person who causes other people to. To help you rise in the political system. In each case, the opportunity was there because not only did I put Newsom on the parking and traffic, I put Billy Getty on one that he was interested in. He was a dog person, and he thought that the public parks were not exactly accommodating as they should be for pets. And clearly he loved the idea more than Newsom did or his appointment. He loved the idea, but that's the kind of thing you need to do. And that's the advice that I would give to young people for your initial question.
[45:27]
Interviewer
Why have politics become so nasty? Well, you know what I'm saying. It's always been rough and tumble, but, you know, a generation ago or two generations ago, Reagan would be diametrically opposed to Tip O'.
[45:44]
Chris Hansen
Neill.
[45:44]
Interviewer
But, you know, on St. Patrick's Day, they'd be standing on the corner outside the Dubliner having a beer together. But that doesn't. That doesn't always happen anymore. Sometimes it does.
[45:53]
Willie Brown
It's still happening.
[45:55]
Interviewer
Yeah.
[45:55]
Willie Brown
In reality, do you think it's more
[45:56]
Interviewer
vitriolic today than it was?
[45:58]
Willie Brown
It's just not covered. Yeah. That way. Right. The coverage that's being generated by really inexperienced communicators, both on the journalist side and the non journalist side. The whole business of the method by which social media proceeds now, in some cases, untruthful, not accurate without being untruthful, just not accurate, because the work hasn't been done to get you there. Just think about it. At one time, you flip on the switch for television and there would be Walter Cronkite, and you'd listen to everything Walter said. Any examination of an elected official or an applicant that Walter would engage in would be instructional not only for the public, but for the person seeking to
[47:08]
Interviewer
impress Walden and for guys like me in the business.
[47:11]
Willie Brown
Correct? No question. So all those factors really need to be cultivated and embraced and cultivated, period. I would tell you that the volume of communications in many cases now adversely impacts the attractiveness of pursuing public office, Period.
[47:43]
Interviewer
What is your priority today? Not today as in this Saturday morning, but in your life at this moment. What's your priority?
[47:52]
Willie Brown
What?
[47:53]
Interviewer
What's the most important thing to Willie Brown today?
[47:56]
Willie Brown
Well, I have children and grandchildren and I'm trying my best to get them to finish what I started.
[48:08]
Interviewer
I hope they do. Thank you, Charles.
[48:11]
Willie Brown
I really hope they do.
[48:12]
Interviewer
I appreciate your time because I think they're talented enough.
[48:18]
Chris Hansen
Well, I think that's going to make some headlines. Thanks for joining us and have a seat with Chris Hansen. We'll see you next Wednesday. Monday, another episode of Predators I've Caught. And on Thursdays on my streaming network, True Blue, another episode of Takedown with Chris Hansen, our Predator investigative series.
[48:35]
Interviewer
Much more to come. Until then, I'll be watching and listening.
[48:53]
Venmo User 1
Have you seen any dinosaurs?
[48:55]
Interviewer
What kind of question is that? On August 14, I think that our neighborhood has moved. We're in the past.
[49:06]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
Summer ends on Oak street. Run from producer J.J. abrams, Anne Hathaway, Ewan McGregor. We're gonna survive the end of Oak Street. Directed by David Robert Mitchell. Rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. August the 14th.
[49:25]
Interviewer
I'm not giving up. I am selling the building.
[49:30]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
The final season of FX is the Bear.
[49:34]
Chris Hansen
The restaurant is flooded.
[49:36]
Willie Brown
Everything's either gonna be okay.
[49:39]
Interviewer
No, stop.
[49:40]
Willie Brown
Or not.
[49:42]
Interviewer
We are outgunned and we are outmanned.
[49:45]
Willie Brown
But we have each other.
[49:47]
FX The Bear Promo Narrator
FX's the bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney.

Willie Brown: New York Is Proof Socialism Doesn't Work | Have A Seat

Willie Brown: New York Is Proof Socialism Doesn't Work | Have A Seat

Podcast Summary

Overview

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Willie Brown’s Approach to Public Service & Political Success

2. The Current State of the Democratic Party

3. The Rise and Limitations of Democratic Socialism in US Politics

4. Reflections on Political Scandal and Candidate Quality

5. On “Democratic Socialism” and Attacks on the Wealthy

6. The Future of the Democratic Party

7. Political Advice & Respect for Elders

8. 2028 Presidential Nominations: Newsom vs. Harris & Other Potential Candidates

9. The Appeal and Realities of Socialist Movements Among Young Voters

10. Zoran Mamdani and the Socialists’ Prospects in New York and Beyond

11. Civility Then and Now: The State of Political Discourse

12. Willie Brown’s Longevity & Advice for the Next Generation

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

Episode Timeline

Final Thoughts

Podcast Summary

Overview

Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Willie Brown’s Approach to Public Service & Political Success

2. The Current State of the Democratic Party

3. The Rise and Limitations of Democratic Socialism in US Politics

4. Reflections on Political Scandal and Candidate Quality

5. On “Democratic Socialism” and Attacks on the Wealthy

6. The Future of the Democratic Party

7. Political Advice & Respect for Elders

8. 2028 Presidential Nominations: Newsom vs. Harris & Other Potential Candidates

9. The Appeal and Realities of Socialist Movements Among Young Voters

10. Zoran Mamdani and the Socialists’ Prospects in New York and Beyond

11. Civility Then and Now: The State of Political Discourse

12. Willie Brown’s Longevity & Advice for the Next Generation

Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps

Episode Timeline

Final Thoughts