Podcast Summary: What Is Happening Here | Canadaland Investigates

Episode 3: “As a Jew”

Host: Jesse Brown (Canadaland)
Date: November 26, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode deeply examines the sharp rise in reported antisemitic hate crimes against Jews in Canada as compared to the United States, particularly following the outbreak of the Israel–Hamas war on October 7, 2023. Host Jesse Brown explores whether the situation is as dire as statistics indicate, or if anti-Zionist activism is being miscategorized as antisemitism. The episode centers around clashes at Canadian synagogues, the role of Jewish anti-Zionist groups in protest organizing, and a searching, at times tense, conversation with Jewish anti-Zionist activist Dave Meslin.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Synagogue Targeting and Protest Dynamics

• Breaking Norms:

  • March 2024 marks a shift: for the first time, a synagogue becomes the direct site of protest in Canada.
  • The Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue in Montreal is protested over a real estate fair in its rented space marketing Israeli properties, including those in settlements.
  • The protest is widely circulated online and is attended by both pro-Israeli synagogue defenders and larger, sound-equipped anti-Zionist protesters.
  • Police separate the parties, but aggressive and inflammatory language is used.

• Escalation of Language:

  • Anti-Zionist speakers (notably Mahmoud Khalil, Montreal for Palestine) shift from criticizing Israel to explicitly targeting the Jews of Montreal:
    • “Every single one of you is a settler in Palestine. It's like you are a settler here because half of you are either from Poland or Romania or... Germany.” (Khalil, 02:14)
    • “You only know how to steal. Just like you stole the L, you stole falafel. We're a bunch of losers.” (Khalil, 02:29)
    • Sexist and derogatory remarks directed at Jewish women in the crowd (03:41).
    • Veiled threats: “Am Yisrael chai, but not for long, motherfuckers.” (Translation: The people of Israel live, but not for long.) (Khalil, 04:26–04:29)

• Changing Protest Landscape:

  • Jewish anti-Zionist group “Independent Jewish Voices” (IJV) organizes and publicizes the protest, giving non-Jews a sense of “permission” to protest at a synagogue.
  • After this, further synagogue protests occur in other cities.

• Jewish Anti-Zionist Perspective:

  • Sarah Boven (IJV), present at the protest, distinguishes between Judaism and Zionism:
    • “We do this out of love for Judaism. We are reclaiming our Judaism from Zionism.” (Boven, 05:52)
    • “...to show those who were yelling and dancing on the other side tonight that there are other ways to be Jewish.” (Boven, 06:12)

2. The Jewish Community Divide on Zionism

• Numbers & Narratives:

  • Jesse Brown outlines the disparity: while the anti-Zionist Jewish voices are prominent at protests and in media, they constitute just 3% of Canadian Jews (supporting anti-Zionism), while 94% support Israel's right to exist.

• Accusations of Tokenization:

  • Mainstream Jews accuse anti-Zionist Jews and protest organizers of using “token” Jews to legitimize actions that hostile to broader Jewish sentiment.

3. Dave Meslin Interview – The Anti-Zionist Jewish View

a. Dave’s Journey and Affiliations

• Meslin describes himself as a proud, but deeply conflicted, Jew whose activism now centers on Palestinian solidarity and opposition to Israeli policies.
• Raised in explicitly Zionist institutions, he has since embraced groups like IJV and Jewish Voice for Peace and participates in pro-Palestinian rallies—visibly as a Jew.
• “...the groups I'm mostly aligned with now is Independent Jewish Voices, Jewish Voice for Peace in the US, IfNotNow, Jews Against Genocide, those would be the top ones.” (Meslin, 11:43)
• He expresses unease with inflammatory protest language but understands the rage.
  • “I have deep respect for people who are like, no, fuck it, I'm going all in... But I also, honestly, I have deep respect for people who are like, no, fuck it, I'm going all in. People are dying by the tens of thousands. Women, children, babies. Like, this is not the time to walk on eggshells.” (Meslin, 12:56)

b. Skepticism of Antisemitism Surge

• Meslin reports the only hate he’s personally experienced since Oct. 7 has come from fellow Jews—not from non-Jews or anti-Zionist protesters (15:09). He considers some of this intra-Jewish hostility as potentially a form of antisemitism itself.

• He’s skeptical over reports of a dramatic rise in antisemitism—emphasizing overreporting, shifting definitions, and the lack of severe physical violence:

  • “...I'm more likely to choke to death on a marshmallow than to be killed because I'm a Jew.” (Meslin, 17:53)
  • “If I made a list of the 100 top concerns on my mind right now... antisemitism is not on the list.” (Meslin, 18:54)

• Jesse Brown pushes back, pointing out the police statistics (not just B’nai Brith reporting) show a steep rise; Meslin insists this could be a function of intensified reporting, not necessarily more real danger (21:14).

c. Evaluating Acts of Hate

• Meslin downplays bomb threats, vandalism, and shootings when not physically harming anyone, seeing them as fear tactics rather than evidence of a genuine threat to Jewish safety (25:12-26:47).
  • “A bomb threat by nature is not a bomb. That’s the whole point of it. You’re trying to cause trouble. By definition it’s non violent.” (Meslin, 25:12)

d. On the Conflation of Jews and Israel

• Meslin argues that it’s understandable non-Jews conflate Jewish institutions with the state of Israel, because Jews themselves emphasize this identification (“we are Israel… that’s our whole shtick.” – Meslin, 24:19).

e. The Problem of Language and Protest Boundaries

• Meslin acknowledges the risk of anti-Zionist rhetoric morphing into antisemitism and urges careful language, both to avoid dehumanization and increased risks to Jews:

  • “I think there was language used by the anti Zionist community and the pro-Palestine community that crosses a line sometimes and it veers away from legitimate criticism of Israel towards language that could increase antisemitism.” (Meslin, 31:33)

• Both Brown and Meslin accept a correlation between dehumanizing language and violence, and agree laws against hate speech need stricter enforcement.

f. Are Synagogues Legitimate Protest Targets?

• Meslin maintains synagogues flying Israeli flags that do not denounce alleged war crimes are fair targets for non-violent protest, though not violence:

  • “...anyone... any institution that has an Israeli flag in front of it while Israel is mass murdering people, that is a legitimate place for a nonviolent protest. Absolutely.” (Meslin, 36:21)

• When pressed, he notes: “I would like to see more protests outside of Jewish institutions.” (Meslin, 47:00)

g. Accountability and Responsibility

• Meslin provocatively claims “the Jewish community has blood on its hands” for supporting Israel, but distinguishes between “the community” as institutions and Jews as individuals (41:36–42:18).

4. The Larger Implications and Tensions

• Does Protest Incite Violence?

  • Brown challenges Meslin: does inflammatory rhetoric—and the public anguish of an anti-Zionist Jew—feed an atmosphere where violence against Jews is normalized or justified?
  • Meslin admits the possibility but deems the probability “low enough that it doesn’t concern me,” and sees greater importance in calling out “genocide” (46:39).

• Case Study — Palestinian Youth Movement

  • When Brown informs Meslin of the group’s open celebration of October 7th, Meslin remains supportive of their right to resist, but not terrorism against civilians.
  • At protests, Meslin admits he hears antisemitic tropes (“Jews run the banks...”), but dismisses them as outliers.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The presence of Jews at anti Zionist demonstrations and rallies has lent credibility to the idea that this movement is not a racist movement and that the Jewish community itself is divided about Israel. And that's true. There is a divide. But... an overwhelming majority of Jews, 94%, support Israel.” — Jesse Brown (08:11)

• “If I made a list of the 100 top concerns on my mind right now... antisemitism is not on the list.” — Dave Meslin (18:54)

• “A bomb threat by nature is not a bomb. That’s the whole point of it. You’re trying to cause trouble. By definition it’s nonviolent.” — Dave Meslin (25:12)

• “We should be careful that we're not using language that could put Jewish people at risk. By conflating the two...” — Dave Meslin (31:33)

• “I would like to see more protests outside of Jewish institutions.” — Dave Meslin (47:00)

• “You said earlier that you do see a relationship between demonizing language and violence. And if there is a demonstrable evidence-based account of demonizing, dehumanizing language at these demonstrations, would you say that that's bringing the threat of violence to Jews at their places of worship?”
  “Yeah. And we have hate crimes and that person should be arrested.” — Jesse Brown & Dave Meslin (37:07–37:26)

Important Segment Timestamps

• Defining the New Protest Landscape (00:23–05:12)
  Breaking the norm of not protesting synagogues, escalation during demonstrations, and role of Jewish organizers

• The Jewish Community Divide on Israel (06:26–09:13)
  The small but visible minority of anti-Zionist Jews and arguments around tokenization

• Dave Meslin Interview Begins (10:50)

  • Meslin’s story, affiliations, evolving relationship to Jewish identity and Zionism (10:50–14:49)
  • Data skepticism, intra-Jewish conflict, hate crime statistics (16:04–21:14)
  • Protest tactics, escalation from language to action (36:01–47:00)
  • The tension between passionate opposition to Israel and the risk of feeding dangerous tropes (46:03–47:14)

• Discussion of Palestinian Youth Movement’s October 7 Celebration (47:14–49:01)
  Implications for Jewish-Palestinian alliances and protest boundaries

Tone & Language

The episode maintains a rigorous, probing, and honest tone, often challenging and sometimes agonized, reflecting the complexity of the discourse. Both the host and guest speak candidly, sometimes using explicit language, expressing frustration, anger, and uncertainty in real time.

Conclusion

The conversation encapsulates the deep divisions within Canada’s Jewish community on Zionism, the dangers posed by rising antisemitism, what counts as legitimate protest, and whether anti-Israel protest sometimes becomes antisemitic. Brown and Meslin's dialogue highlights the challenge of reacting to events in Israel/Gaza while ensuring that Canadian Jews’ safety and sense of belonging are protected—or at least not further eroded.