Episode Overview

Podcast: What Is Happening Here | Canadaland Investigates
Episode #6: Antizionism Is Not Antisemitism
Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Jesse Brown

This conclusive episode explores the deepening crisis of antisemitism in Canada in the post-October 7th context. Jesse Brown investigates the experiences of Canadian Jews, the blurring of lines between antizionism and antisemitism, the shifting realities of cultural life, and the ideological roots and consequences of contemporary antizionist movements. The episode features personal testimonies, expert analysis, and even Palestinian voices to interrogate whether antizionism is truly distinct from antisemitism and what its real-world impacts are — on everyone.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Experiences of Antisemitism in Everyday Life

• Medical Mistreatment:

  • [00:04–04:03] David R. recounts a disturbing experience with a medical specialist who, upon learning of his Jewish identity, became hostile and dismissive during a painful eye procedure.
    • "The first thing this person says to me is, you Jewish? And I felt really defensive, you know. I said, yeah, but that's a German name too." — David R. [00:12]
    • David describes persistent rudeness and a lack of empathy, leaving him feeling intimidated and vulnerable during surgery.
    • He suspects antisemitic bias played a role in his treatment, especially after other complaints about the doctor surfaced.

• Is This Antisemitism?

  • [04:55] Jesse Brown reflects on how difficult it can be to distinguish between bad behavior and bias, especially when identity is at play.
    • "Was David correct in concluding that the doctor was anti Semitic? Is it possible that he was simply an unskilled doctor with rude manners?" — Jesse Brown [04:55]

2. The Retreat of Jewish Culture from Public Spaces

• Ashkenaz Festival & Increased Security Burdens:
  • [06:25–09:18] Eric Stein, Artistic Director of Toronto’s Ashkenaz Festival, describes almost losing their longtime venue after being hit with a massive security fee in the wake of rising antisemitic tensions.
    • "They kind of blindsided us with a proposal for security requirements... nearly a million dollars that they were telling us initially would need to be spent in order for them to feel secure hosting our festival." — Eric Stein [07:15]
    • Even after negotiations, the festival suffered from poor attendance, as Jewish audiences felt unsafe attending public events.
    • "There were a lot of Jewish people that would ordinarily come to our festival who weren’t comfortable coming... for fear of the potential that they would have to encounter protest and disruption." — Eric Stein [08:55]
  • The growing trend is for Jewish culture to migrate away from integrated public spaces to predominantly Jewish neighborhoods — a symbolic and real withdrawal.

3. Professional and Social Exclusion in Progressive Spaces

• Art, Grants & Community Estrangement:

  • [09:55–19:48] Jewish artists like cartoonist Miriam Lubicki have been banned from festivals due to past ties with Israel, and festivals and plays with Jewish themes have been canceled.
    • "It’s a lot easier to come out as gay and trans than someone who questions antisemitism." — Rachel Matlow (Archie) [11:20]
    • Archie discusses feeling shut out of the queer community and left-wing spaces that once felt like family, over expectations about Jewish identity.
    • “The irony that the queer community... prides itself on being inclusive... But now for Jews, it seems that the acceptance is conditional.” — Archie [13:29]
    • “No Zionists allowed” becomes an exclusionary litmus test, equated with “No Jews allowed.”

• Leftist Antisemitism as Distinct:

  • Archie highlights how antisemitic attitudes circulate differently in left/progressive spaces, through tropes about Jews as powerful or unworthy of anti-racist protections.
    • "We don't tell any other minorities what they're facing isn't really racism... But Jews are told all the time to stop overreacting.” — Archie [16:07]
  • The pain of policing Jewish identity is expressed: Jews are pressured to denounce Israel to remain accepted.

4. Antizionism’s Intellectual Foundations and Its Relationship to Antisemitism

• Historical Origins:

  • [20:24–32:35] Adam Lewis Klein, a scholar and PhD candidate, traces the development of antisemitism and antizionism through history:
    • Antisemitism as an idea dates to 1879, with roots in pseudoscientific and race-based hatred.
    • The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (late 19th-century Russian forgery) was pivotal in linking Jewish collective action (Zionism) to global conspiracy myths.
    • Nazi propaganda about Zionism diffused through postwar Arab nationalists and the Soviet Union.
    • "Zionology", a KGB-Soviet doctrine, reframed Zionism as racism and imperialism — current slogans (“Zionism is racism”, “Israel is apartheid”) flow from this tradition.
    • "The Soviets really invented so much of the libels today that are used against Israel." — Adam Lewis Klein [25:32]

• Modern Tropes and Inversions:

  • Antizionism often inverts Holocaust tropes: “Jews as Zionists are themselves racists”, “Zionists are Nazis”, etc.
  • Old race-based anti-Jewish rhetoric morphs into new frameworks: Jews cast as “white colonizers”, a denial of their ethnicity or indigeneity.

• The Double Standards:

  • Jesse Brown points out that calls for Israel’s erasure are unique compared to criticisms of other states.
    • “You do not hear people say that [Russia, China, NKorea] should be wiped from the map.” — Jesse Brown [36:31]
  • Adam Lewis Klein says ignoring these double standards is part of the ideology.

5. The Consequences for Jews in the Diaspora

• Litmus Test & Dilemma:

  • [38:49–40:29] Anti-Zionism imposes a choice on all Jews: reject anti-Zionism and face harassment, be silent, or become a “token” anti-Zionist Jew facilitating attacks on others.
    • “So you see what I mean? Even if anti Zionism is true, its main hate object is Israel and not all Jews. Of course it will affect all Jews via association.” — Adam Lewis Klein [39:49]
  • Pressuring Jews to “denounce Israel” to be tolerated is discriminatory; it echoes historic suspicions toward minorities.
    • “It’s an operation of force... we’ll decide who you are such that we will be legitimate in what we do.” — Adam Lewis Klein [40:40]

• Weaponization & Dilution of ‘Antisemitism’ as a Term:

  • Accusations of antisemitism now brand one as problematic, rather than calling out hate.
    • “To bring up the question of antisemitism is enough to brand you as an evil Zionist.” — Adam Lewis Klein [41:48]

6. Anti-Zionism as Its Own Form of Hate

• Ideological Structure & Spread:

  • [34:12–42:49] Adam Lewis Klein asserts that it’s not fruitful to argue whether anti-Zionists are “really” antisemitic, since anti-Zionism operates as its own distinct hate movement.
    • “Anti Zionism itself is hate and anti Zionism is wrong. It’s a form of anti Jewish hate.” — Adam Lewis Klein [42:04]
    • The viral slogan “Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism” cements the movement’s legitimacy.

• Not Pro-Palestinian:

  • [42:49–44:50] Jesse Brown observes: anti-Zionism offers “prophecy, not strategy”; it has consistently failed to advance Palestinian welfare, instead perpetuating cycles of violence and suffering.
    • “Anti Zionism is not pro Palestinian... Prophecy is not strategy.” — Jesse Brown [43:19]
    • “Anti-Zionism has been a catastrophe for Palestinians. But who am I... to say what’s best for Palestinians?” — Jesse Brown [44:50]

7. Palestinian Perspective — Beyond Sides

• Ali Abunimah’s Advocacy for Nonviolence:

  • [45:13–56:04] Ali Abunimah, a Palestinian activist, provides a crucial view from Bethlehem:
    • The pro-Israel/pro-Palestine dichotomy helps no one: "If you are pro Palestine, be pro Jewish people to stand for the Palestinian right, not to be against Jewish people. If you are pro Israel, don't think that the Israeli security will be built ever at the expense of Palestinian dignity, freedom and rights." — Ali Abunimah [46:26]
    • He shares personal trauma inflicted by both sides but insists on the necessity of humanizing one's so-called enemies.
    • Rejects “globalize the intifada”; argues for “globalizing the solution” through nonviolence, mutual recognition, and pragmatic behavioral change.
    • “My problem is not with Judaism or Zionism. My problem is with the occupation." — Ali Abunimah [51:17]
    • He insists that “fanatics will not help Palestinians to be free.”

• Are Nonviolent Palestinians a Minority?

  • Ali argues the nonviolent majority is silent, but real.
  • [53:39] “We are not the minority. We are the active minority that represents [a] silent big majority.” — Ali Abunimah

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Policing Jewish Identity in the Arts and Progressivism:

  • “It's a lot easier to come out as gay and trans than someone who questions antisemitism.” — Archie [11:20]
  • “No Zionists allowed... As if that's somehow different. It's the acceptable 'No Jews allowed.'" — Archie [14:47]

• On Double Standards and Social Pressure:

  • “The prescription is we're not against you Jew, you just have to denounce Israel. Right, that itself is discriminatory.” — Jesse Brown [40:05]
  • “If you can't speak up in your defense, then anything can be done to you.” — Jesse Brown [41:56]

• On the Origins of Antizionism:

  • “The protocols of the Elders of Zion claims to be a transcript of the meeting of the World Zionist Organization. So from the beginning Zionism was always seen as particularly suspect because it was a clear case of Jews organizing themselves collectively.” — Adam Lewis Klein [23:17]

• On Solutions, Not Sides:

  • “If you are pro Palestine, be pro Jewish people to stand for the Palestinian right, not to be against Jewish people... If you cannot be part of the solution, don't be part of the problem.” — Ali Abunimah [46:26]
  • “My problem is not with Judaism or Zionism. My problem is with the occupation." — Ali Abunimah [51:17]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:04–04:03] — Medical antisemitism story (David R.)
• [06:25–09:53] — Ashkenaz Festival & cultural withdrawal (Eric Stein)
• [11:20–19:48] — Identity politics, antisemitism in queer & progressive spaces (Archie)
• [20:24–32:35] — Intellectual history of antisemitism & antizionism (Adam Lewis Klein)
• [38:49–41:56] — The litmus test, discrimination in progressive spaces (Adam & Jesse)
• [42:49–44:50] — Antizionism as empty prophecy, not strategy (Jesse Brown)
• [45:13–56:04] — Palestinian nonviolence and the real stakes (Ali Abunimah)

Conclusion

This episode presents a layered and nuanced investigation into what is happening to Jews in Canada and beyond — not simply cataloguing acts of hate, but examining the ideologies, social shifts, and personal repercussions underlying today’s enmity. The show challenges listeners to rethink antizionism not just as a set of positions on Israel, but as a driver of real harm, both for Jews and for the prospects of peace.

Final reflection from Jesse Brown:
"When I began this series, I thought that anti Zionism was anti Semitism. But I set out to investigate that belief... it didn't [hold up]. But it's no less of a threat to Jews for that fact." [42:49]

For further discussion, the episode offers an open invitation for reflection and dialogue on how to restore safety, fairness, and genuine pluralism for all — on campuses, in cultural life, and in society at large.