Bonus: Kudos and Karendians

Summary

Summary of "Bonus: Kudos and Karendians" Episode of The Copernic Affair | Canadaland Investigates

Release Date: July 15, 2024

In the bonus episode titled "Kudos and Karendians," Canadaland’s hosts, Angel and Robert, delve into the reception of their investigative series, addressing both the accolades they've received and the criticisms they've faced. This episode provides an insider look into the dynamics of producing a sensitive and impactful journalism series, while also exploring the broader implications of identity fraud within Indigenous communities.

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1. Series Reception and Listener Feedback

Success and Popularity

Angel and Robert celebrate the series' success, noting it as one of the most widely circulated projects they've undertaken in journalism. They express their surprise and gratitude for the overwhelming support and positive feedback.

• Angel (03:22): "It was a smash. People are loving it. It's one of the largest circulating things I've ever done in journalism."

International Reach

A significant highlight is the series' unexpected popularity in the United States, with Robert (03:59) remarking, "We have twice as many listeners in the United States as we do in Canada." This surge is attributed to the increasing American interest in Indigenous topics, which are more saturated in Canadian media.

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2. Critical Feedback and Challenges

Handling Criticism

The hosts discuss the mixed feedback received, particularly focusing on criticisms concerning their portrayal of Indigenous identity fraud.

• Robert (14:44): "We’re not going to the same place, so I don't know how we're going to actually match up there."

Specific Criticisms

A notable point of contention arises from the episode on "Pretendian Hunters," where Jacqueline Keillor, a subject of the episode, vehemently criticized the podcast.

• Robert (20:09): "She calls this a hit piece about her."

Angel defends their journalistic integrity, emphasizing the importance of scrutinizing methodologies in investigating Indigenous identity.

• Angel (21:27): "We didn't say that on our show. We just focused on her work."

Addressing Complex Issues

The episode also touches upon the sensitive topic of Black Indigenous individuals and the systemic anti-Blackness within tribal communities.

• Angel (23:35): "There are absolutely people who are Black and Indigenous who become disenfranchised from their tribes because of changes in policy."

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3. Plans for Future Episodes

Exploring Deeper Issues

Both hosts express eagerness to tackle more profound and controversial topics in future seasons, such as:

• Angel (26:27): "I want to talk about some of the fake tribes that are infiltrating the National Congress of American Indians and really dive into that spicy stuff."

• Robert (27:20): "I want to look at that scholarship fraud, that college fraud, all those people."

Broader Investigations

They plan to investigate various facets of Indigenous identity fraud, including:

• Fake tribal organizations
• Scholarship and college admission fraud
• Violent incidents linked to imposters within communities

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4. Innovative Use of AI-Generated Music

Thematic Alignment

Angel and Robert discuss their decision to incorporate AI-generated music into the podcast, highlighting its ironic alignment with the show's theme of authenticity.

• Angel (29:02): "I love that we used AI music, and I love that it kind of comes across as hokey and it has the stereotypes."

• Robert (30:05): "It's just such an apt metaphor when we're talking about pretendience."

Creative Challenges

They encountered challenges in securing rights for their preferred music, leading to the adoption of AI-generated tracks that resonate with the podcast’s satirical take on fake identities.

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5. Community and Listener Engagement

Positive Reinforcement

The hosts acknowledge the support from listeners, emphasizing the importance of audience engagement in sustaining and expanding the podcast's reach.

• Angel (31:38): "A heartfelt thank you to the people who have subscribed and listened. There's been some really great encouragement out there."

Encouraging Subscriptions and Sharing

They encourage listeners to subscribe, share the podcast, and provide feedback to ensure the continuation of future seasons.

• Robert (28:07): "We get a next season by listeners engaging and subscribing and giving us feedback and sharing us around."

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6. Humorous Interludes and Light-Hearted Moments

Throughout the episode, Angel and Robert infuse humor into their discussions, particularly when addressing criticisms and the use of AI-generated content. This comedic approach serves to lighten the gravity of the topics while maintaining listener engagement.

• Robert (29:58): "Pretendions are like fingers for AI. It just can't get it right."

• Angel (32:17): "For those who took the time to subscribe, sincerely, thank you so much."

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7. Conclusion and Forward Look

As the episode wraps up, Angel and Robert reiterate their commitment to uncovering and addressing issues of fraudulent Indigenous identities and the broader implications of such acts on communities. They reaffirm their gratitude towards their audience and emphasize the collective effort required to sustain impactful journalism.

• Robert (32:17): "Thank you, everybody who liked and subscribed and paid for this and made it so I have a roof over my head."

• Angel (32:52): "I'm really, really appreciate it. I really appreciate having the opportunity to tell the stories and to get this point across."

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Notable Quotes:

• Angel (03:22): "It was a smash. People are loving it."
• Robert (03:59): "We have twice as many listeners in the United States as we do in Canada."
• Angel (21:27): "We didn’t say that on our show. We just focused on her work."
• Robert (30:05): "It's just such an apt metaphor when we're talking about pretendience."
• Angel (31:38): "A heartfelt thank you to the people who have subscribed and listened."

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This bonus episode provides a candid reflection on the challenges and triumphs faced during the creation of The Copernic Affair, highlighting Canadaland’s dedication to in-depth and ethical journalism. By addressing both praise and criticism, Angel and Robert demonstrate a commitment to evolving their work and deepening their exploration of Indigenous identity and authenticity.

Transcript

[Angel]

Hello, it's Giles Whittell from Tortoise.

[Robert]

Welcome to the news meeting. I think the danger here is that we're not as relentless as we were.

[Angel]

The first time around.

[Robert]

We have to keep that up. Just One newspaper found 30,000 thousand lies or falsehoods or misleading statements during his last term. You know, Trump met the moment here because traditional media is in crisis. We should be talking about how our reporting is getting into the hands of people and how we're building trust with those audiences. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. We all have bad days and sometimes bad weeks and maybe even bad years. But the good news is we don't have to figure out life all alone. Chris I'm comedian Chris Duffy, host of Ted's how to Be a Better Human podcast.

[Angel]

And our show is about the little ways that you can improve your life.

[Robert]

Actual practical tips that you can put.

[Angel]

Into place that will make your day to day better.

[Robert]

Whether it is setting boundaries at work or rethinking how you clean your house, each episode has conversations with experts who share tips on how to navigate life's ups and downs. Find how to be a better human.

[Angel]

Wherever you're listening to this.

[Robert]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts. Acast.com In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time it's gonna get personal.

[Angel]

I don't know who sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

[Robert]

On Drugs is available now. Wherever you get your podcasts. Staying on top of Canadian news does.

[Angel]

Not have to be boring. Canadaland is a podcast that brings you the news differently. Our reporters break original news stories that you won't hear anywhere else.

[Robert]

And our hosts and guests have funny.

[Angel]

And smart conversations about what is happening.

[Robert]

In Canadian politics and media.

[Angel]

We're living through an era of heightened anxiety and fear.

[Robert]

This prime minister is not worth the cost. Crime and corruption. I am not a KGB agent.

[Angel]

Listen to Canada Land. Wherever you get your podcasts, Canada Land.

[Robert]

Funded by you. Hey, Angel. How are you?

[Angel]

I'm great, Robert. What's going on, man?

[Robert]

Welcome to our bonus episode of pretendience.

[Angel]

The bonus episode. The behind the scenes peek.

[Robert]

Sure. So what is under the hood of this episode? Well, first off, we need to talk about how our series did. Second, we need to talk about the feedback. Not all of it super friendly. And then we need to get into the big elephant in the room that we missed the entire season. So right off the bat, how did the series do?

[Angel]

It was a smash. People are loving it. It's one of the largest circulating things I've ever done in journalism. So I'm kind of blown away by that. There's been a lot of support, a lot of encouragement.

[Robert]

Yeah. So I had to do this panel the other day, and it was nothing about this. It was on the extremely juicy topic of indigenous procurement. And I had people come up to me after it, talking about pretendience, not about my super awesome talk on procurement.

[Angel]

Well, procurement sounds super boring, to be fair. And scandalous. Criminal fraudsters sounds a lot more interesting, I guess.

[Robert]

I guess for some people. So we have a ton of listeners. It was a total smash hit. The part that I don't really expect for a series hosted on Canada land is that we have twice as many listeners in the United States as we do in Canada.

[Angel]

I think the United States is like, really consuming a lot of the Native content right now. Canada has some level of Native saturation that they don't have in the United States on Native media, Native topics. And so in the United States, it's kind of like fire right now. It's taking off. And there's a lot of interest in Native topics and concerns and stories. So I'm not surprised.

[Robert]

Absolutely. I just saw this new Native movie being featured on Apple TV with what's her Face from the show with the movie and the awards and the dress. You know who?

[Angel]

Lily.

[Robert]

Yes.

[Angel]

Goddess Lily.

[Robert]

Yes. Yeah. Pow wow's not just about dancing. It's a way to be together. My mom, she won't miss it, will she? Then I saw this new documentary streaming on BBC with some freaking lady. I can't remember her name.

[Angel]

Yeah, she's like a chain smoking, civically engaged, civil servant, vigilante kind of lady. And she was like doing press freedom, like, real gritty kind of gal. I don't know. Cause that's out on BBC.

[Robert]

That's the one. The one where she's like smoking in the picture.

[Angel]

Our tribal government roll call vote, please. Wasn't prepared for hungry journalists. All right, Jared, what you got? Snooping around and doing the news. Three top officials were arrested. The word embezzlement comes to mind, but it's all the Muscogee Creek people have as far as source of news, and someone's got to do it.

[Robert]

That Smoking lady is of course you angel.

[Angel]

Yeah.

[Robert]

And the film is Bad Press, which is on the BBC. And yes, you will see a notification saying that you can't technically watch it in the Americas, but there's a thing called a vpn. You download a vpn, you put it on there and then you're watching Bad Press.

[Angel]

Yeah. BBC Storyville. And if you go to BBC Storyville and look for Bad Press, there's actually a link to a VPN you can use if you're outside of the uk.

[Robert]

That's crazy. That's like calling your book Steal My Book.

[Angel]

I know.

[Robert]

Also, did I mention that we're being featured by Apple in the Apple Store in the United States? So take a look out for that. And I think we're probably going to do a video piece for that too.

[Angel]

They asked us to do videos of where we record and I'm like, not sure I want to share my bathroom linen closet with the entire world.

[Robert]

Yeah, my office is spectacular. To be honest. I have a whole wall of pears here. This my, my tree is blooming. So the show from what I understand is doing very well. We're getting a lot of positive replies from media. I've had basically every reporter I know message me and tell me they love it, which is awesome. I've seen it pop up throughout native channels too. On native Facebook. People are using it as a comeback against other people. They're posting it as sort of a gotcha, which I really like. It's really cool. It's critically well received. Like I've heard a bunch of other podcasts and other shows where they're actually talking about us and it's like people from the States, just like non natives who have like literally no clue about this topic, they listen to the episode and suddenly they're like pretty decent and accurate pretend experts. One of the things that I have learned is that one of the hallmarks when people are investigating so called pretendions is that when people are really offended about being asked about their heritage, that is a red flag because conversations about heritage, about tribal ties, about who your ancestors were, are very, very common in indigenous communities.

[Angel]

And they're actually welcomed thing I'm liking about the feedback that I'm getting and some of my reporter friends are, you know, interviewing us and doing different things like that, which is a fun dynamic to have. But they're actually learning like a wealth of information about a topic that the mainstream media has always struggled with. And so while they're listening to these crazy stories and then they're Having a little laugh at our nice remarks here and there. They're also learning how to do better, identifying this phenomenon in their own circles, which is really nice because it makes me think, ah, that's the whole point of it, all, right? To have an impact, to educate, to share and disseminate information. And that's a good thing. So I'm really pleased with that and it's working really well.

[Robert]

What about in what they call meet space? Have you had any feedback personally? Didn't you get called into the chief's office?

[Angel]

Yeah, there was like, well, I work for my tribe basically. My, my tribe owns a media company and I work for this media company and we have meetings periodically with the, the tribal leaders. And it was kind of nice because I thought I was like going to be in trouble. You know, like sometimes you hear feedback from leaders and they're like, oh, maybe it's not a good time to talk about this. But what I heard in this meeting was, hey, we listen to your podcast and this is the most pressing conversation that's happening at NCAI at the the UN and it's a very prolific problem. So that's a really good feeling to have that kind of feedback from tribal leaders who are like, yes, this needs to be talked about.

[Robert]

I'm a proud red blooded warrior running for the throne Going to break the barriers, make this country my own. With my boots on the ground, I'm chasing a dream A Republican Native American Hear my battle scream from the plains of Dakota. One kind of feedback that I'm getting is from emails and direct messages and stuff from people with tons and tons of tips. I mean, I've got some from people like in government in Canada who are talking about, like how all the natives in their departments get together and complain about all of this happening. And they talk about, you know, how they can't speak up because the bureaucracy is set against them and they'll get in trouble if they call it out.

[Angel]

It's kind of crazy that what we got to do in season one seems like it's the tip of the iceberg, it's done. And people are out there consuming this information and they're seeing this podcast as this platform that they can actually take advantage of. And they're like, hey, in addition to that, here's some more tips for you. And they're really validating what we're saying. So that's nice.

[Robert]

One really interesting tip I got is from a member of Guillaume Carl's family. These are people who claim, and I've not verified it yet to be from his extended family and they have insider info and it's just worse.

[Angel]

Oh gosh.

[Robert]

You guys remember Guillaume Karl? He's the guy from episode one. You know, they can question all they want. Bottom line is I am what I am.

[Angel]

The people that don't believe I'm native.

[Robert]

They can kiss my Indian ass. He's that guy, that guy in Quebec who created his own indigenous organization. He got 50,000 members and a dog and made them native. And he's the guy that is in all that legal trouble and was recently convicted of some crimes, some sexual crimes involving 12 year old.

[Angel]

Very bad dude.

[Robert]

He is not a great guy. He's so insulting. He is so rude and insulting.

[Angel]

He basically like challenged you to a duel in the other life, like in the afterlife.

[Robert]

Yeah, but I mean, we're not going to the same place, so I don't know how we're going to actually match up there. No, you never lived here. You existed here. Because when we go on the other side, I will meet you. And when we go on the other side, you will have to apologize. Another person that reached out and I don't know if I should even say this online, oh, screw it. I mean, I don't work for the cops. Was the crown prosecutor in Guillaume Carl's case? Reached out to try and verify info.

[Angel]

So was it the crown prosecutor reaching out to verify that, hey, we're still looking at this case. This guy is going to come to justice. Is that what we're talking about?

[Robert]

They're verifying when we talk to him like down to the hour.

[Angel]

Whoa. Do they not know where he is or how to get ahold of him? And is he hiding from the popo?

[Robert]

I think he's screwing with them. There's this other case that this, this person showed me about Guillaume Carl from earlier this year where he is suing the government for cutting him off. Okay, you said indigenous procurement is boring. Nuh. So Carl was part of this indigenous procurement thing. He got $7.5 million until they cut him off. Well, he didn't accept that he is suing them, saying, I am 100% native. You can't cut me off. This is a crime. You owe me money. And he wants to represent himself in the case. And you know how he said he had like four strokes and is barely alive? When I had my four strokes, I.

[Angel]

Realized that I had to take care.

[Robert]

Of my health because it was very, very serious. While during that same point that he's having all these strokes, he's in court Arguing that he is mentally competent to represent himself.

[Angel]

What? This is crazy. Tell me that you helped the Crown locate this guy because if they're looking for him and you're the last person to talk to him. Did you help? Did you super salute this? Like Scooby Doo?

[Robert]

Do you see stitches? No. No. Okay, no, I'm not a snitch no matter what, but so if they ask me a direct question, I'll ask the direct question, but I'm not going out of my way.

[Angel]

Okay? Okay.

[Robert]

And being a full on snitch, you're.

[Angel]

Not Nancy Drew out there solving for the police or anything like that?

[Robert]

No. Oh, yes. I Mother Nature, son. I'm the chosen one. I live so wild and I live so free.

[Angel]

Yeah.

[Robert]

It just happened to me. I'm like an Indian. We did get some feedback from some people involved in the shows and some people critical of the shows. You know, it wasn't all like hugs and kisses.

[Angel]

True, true.

[Robert]

So let's start with the prison episode. Can you summarize the prison episode super quick?

[Angel]

The prison episode was the biker gang leader Casper we met who played indigenous in order to get the cushy lane of prison for himself. And meanwhile he was booting out actual natives who didn't get to take advantage of programs meant for them.

[Robert]

Okay, so here is our hypothesis for that episode. Yes, there is a problem of overrepresentation of indigenous people in prisons. However, the problem is overstated because of the sheer number of pretendions that in sub provinces this could be overstated by half or more.

[Angel]

They don't require any kind of verification. You go into prison, you say, hey, I'm native. And that's all they need to verify you at this point. And that's a real problem with the system. And so the data is no good that comes out of it.

[Robert]

Exactly. Because there are benefits in there for being a native prisoner. So the criticism is really nitpicky. If this were our main episode on the channel where we're putting on a professional hat and being super cool and everything, I would be like, oh, I appreciate all the criticism. It's really. I value it. And okay, no, so if this is the behinds the scenes thing, here's the actual thought. These people, they're not paying attention. They're just missing so much in the damn episode that the points are all countered in the episode. So they're saying that. How dare you say that native prisoners are getting all these things. Where is that from? And I'm like, it's from the fricking government in Canada, the government recognizes that there's this huge surge of over incarceration of Native people in prison. And so they've created a whole bunch of different programs and incentives to try and deal with that and to try and to reduce those numbers.

[Angel]

I think a lot of what we're seeing in the critical airspace is that whole notion of there's a shitload of people who just like to argue in the weeds about things. And I kind of live by the philosophy of you will never be criticized by someone doing more work than you just saying it's a thing. I like that people just like to complain too. It's fun. Some people do it as a form of entertainment.

[Robert]

I'm guessing that most of the Canadians listening to this right now already listen to Canadaland, the Americans. I'm not so sure. For over 10 years, Canadaland has been publishing weekly episodes that look critically at the media, break news stories and bring listeners like you perspectives from across Canada that you won't find anywhere else. Angel, since you started working on the show, have you been listening? Have you been catching up on all things across the medicine line?

[Angel]

People are always telling me that you Canadians are nice, polite, boring folks. But I've been listening to some news stories and holy cow, the stereotypes are wrong. You guys are wild. I've heard stories about medical cover ups, election interference, right wing trolls, racism, messed up policing, and something called a poke. Anyway, you guys are like the US but with less guns and a younger, better looking president or leader, whatever you call him. I've learned a lot.

[Robert]

Yep, Canadians are just as awful and outrageous and messed up as Americans are. They just hide it better.

[Angel]

I'm learning that.

[Robert]

Robert, you can listen to and follow Canada Land anywhere you get your podcasts. Baby, baby, please don't cry Because I belong in the forest I belong now. The other major package of feedback that we got was about the episode on Pretendian Hunters. While the other episodes were any complaint and criticism we got there was from the general public. With the Pretending Hunter episode, all the criticisms we got there were from Jaclyn Keillor, the subject of the episode, and people connected with her.

[Angel]

So that episode is where we kind of look at the methodologies of investigating indigenous identity. We looked at someone's methodologies that had done it before, how they did it, where they screwed the pooch, just went off base and how we could do it better and showing the audience that you can ask questions and you can vet, but there's a way to do it and there's a way not to do it.

[Robert]

So I just want to summarize her letter. So Jacqueline Keillor sent in a letter. Okay. So one of the things that people say about Jacqueline Keillor, they invented a term for her. So, you know, we have the term pretendian, the term they came up for. For Jacqueline Keillor. And this is not us. This is just floating out in the ether. They call her a Karendian.

[Angel]

Okay, explain to me what this is.

[Robert]

It is, you know, you have pretend Indian. Well, this is just add Karen to it.

[Angel]

So a Karen version of the. It's like, you know, being a Karen and being Indian at the same time.

[Robert]

Being a Karen about pretendience.

[Angel]

Okay, okay.

[Robert]

That's what people have called Jack McKeeler.

[Angel]

We didn't say that on our show.

[Robert]

I really avoided that kind of personal stuff. I just really wanted to focus on her work. And. And so what does she do? She asked to speak to our manager.

[Angel]

Yeah, like a full. Full on Karen.

[Robert]

Okay, okay, like. Like a full on freaking Karen. She asked to speak to the manager and then our manager's manager. So first off, she calls this a hit piece about her. And you know what I mean, the criticism is, is a hit piece. Talk about where you were hit, not dump on other people. It is just so bizarre.

[Angel]

She just got pissed that we talked to somebody she had on her list.

[Robert]

She's pissed that we did that. She says mean shit about Tara Houska. And then there's a whole bunch of stuff saying that Kairos is not native and he's the. The guy that we interviewed. Then she roped in the chief of the tribe and she revealed to her and all her listeners that we never contacted the chief.

[Angel]

Well, why would you contact a chief when the guy says he's not enrolled? I guess the basis of her complaint is that, you know, she's. She's upset. We have scrutinized her work and methodologies and found places that we could improve on it. So she's really big mad that we talked to Kyros. And she claims that Kyros is. Is a Persona non grata because he's not a member of a tribe. But we say that in the episode.

[Robert]

He himself has chosen not to pursue a tribal id, but he is acclaimed and very active member of the Pamunkey community.

[Angel]

I still maintain that a person who does not claim enrollment cannot be a Pretendian. And I will also maintain. And this is the other major point we were making in that episode, publishing a list of people you don't like on the Internet is not journalism, period. So she can kick rocks.

[Robert]

And, and by the way, let's just return to one thing. She admitted in our interview that, that she gets 3% of them wrong.

[Angel]

The initial list that we verified included 200 names. And you know, out of that 97% of them we could not verify their tribal claims.

[Robert]

Who ain't, who they see, say with my trusty shotgun under the southern sun going chase them imposters until the job is done. So that's, that's that criticism Now I think that a lot of the criticism was this whole issue of black natives. The black Native issue is like sort of like the elephant in the room for the whole series. Like it's come up so many times and we've like recorded on it and it's just always been cut because it's just too much to have as a side bit to an episode.

[Angel]

Yeah, I think that maybe sometime in the future there has to be an episode dedicated to talking about the black element of this because there is a lot of anti blackness in the tribal community and it does shape out policy. And you can actually see, and I'll speak to this by first hand experience of watching it play out in my own tribe, that there are absolutely people who are black and indigenous who become disenfranchised from their tribes because of changes in policy. And it's impacted by the federal government's intervention and some of that systematic federal eugenics kind of policy that does infiltrate tribal policy sometimes. And you can see it play out right now the Muskogee Nation is sitting about a month out from giving an opinion on whether or not descendants of the tribes, freedmen, will be able to become enrolled or not. That's something that I'm seeing right here in my own community. So it does exist and it's worth explaining more and talking about more for.

[Robert]

Those people, I guess who are sort of outside Indian country, don't know, there are, I mean, you know, like a native person marries a white person, they just, they choose a side and that's what they are. And native person marries a Chinese person. Happens and they choose a side. That's who they are. And sometimes native people marry black people and they have kids with black people. And those kids, many of them choose to be native and then join the tribal communities. I grew up in a house with two and a lot of native people. I was on a call like two weeks ago and there was like this Native guy on the call. And this is like with like media stuff was going off about black people pretending to be Native. I mean yeah, there are black pretendions but just native people have some weird thing with black natives in particular that you don't see for like Chinese natives.

[Angel]

I think a lot of the colonial mindset with racism has absolutely penetrated some tribal communities and those tribal communities often do see this phenomenon where they recolonize themselves and reintroduce this racism generation after generation. It's a thing.

[Robert]

Anyways, this keeps coming up and it's like why people like Kairo Souled who was in that other episode get so much attention. I mean he's a black native and people just get vicious at them. If there's a next season I want that to be like a really big part of it. At least one major episode going at that specifically. So speaking of next season, angel, how do you feel about it?

[Angel]

I'm ready to go. I've already got three or four ideas for episodes to knock out. I want to talk about some of these fake tribes that are infiltrating the National Congress of American Indians and really dive into that spicy stuff. And I, I want to talk about some of the fake tribes that are already established and what they have done to harm native American tribes that already exist.

[Robert]

For me there, I want to talk about all the pretendions of government.

[Angel]

Yes.

[Robert]

And as we're coming into the fall, like I just did with my kid, we just did her college registration and she did not identify as native because she's a stepdaughter. But I want to look at that scholarship fraud, that college fraud, all those people. I feel like if I dig in there I'm going to find like whole communities of like creepy ass parents who are faking status with their kids. You know like in the States with the full house lady.

[Angel]

Oh yeah, with that fake scholarships for soccer and stuff like that.

[Robert]

Yeah, I feel like I could find that, you know, some lady just got sentenced to prison here for that kind of thing.

[Angel]

Wasn't in Canada. Wasn't there like two twins who were claiming false indigeneity and.

[Robert]

Yeah, that's what they're saying like the mom just got sentenced.

[Angel]

Oh shit.

[Robert]

Yeah. And there's another story I want to look at which is this murder that somebody told me about right as we started this series there was a murder. Don't want to give too many details. It's just like a person who as a pretending infiltrated our community and used that to get really close with people. And at the end there's a native man that ends up dead. And I'm still looking into that, but that's One that I really want to tell in a next season.

[Angel]

Sounds good.

[Robert]

So how do we get a next season?

[Angel]

So we get a next season by listeners engaging and subscribing and giving us feedback and sharing us around. It's really important. Just share it, tell somebody about it, and then give us a little feedback. Give us a little like and a follow. So all these folks who are already subscribers are being a tremendous help. Tell your friends, get them to subscribe to. And if you are a subscriber, there's a shitload of really great bingeable content that you could be diving into. Check out Thunder Bay and listen to all those episodes. Because some of the things that we talk about, some of these themes are really prevalent in. In other Native stories, too. The systems and the problems and the yada, yada, yada.

[Robert]

These songs are just made up. Yeah, they're fake songs. Fake songs we got from a ro.

[Angel]

I do want to talk about the music. Okay. I love the music on this podcast. It's AI generated. And that is funny to me because the way AI is, the way I understand that it works, is that it samples everything out there in the world and it develops something based on prompts. And when you think about the topic of pretend Ians, and then you think about how AI learns the songs could be nothing but cheesy because all the media that exists about Native people is stereotypical and gaudy and. And so the songs must be gaudy and cheesy too. So I kind of love that we used AI music, and I love that it kind of comes across as hokey and it has the stereotypes where you were looking for a drum to hit and thought you would find the answers in your spit.

[Robert]

We looking for a drum to hit. You thought the answer was there in your spit.

[Angel]

That's fucking wonderful and perfect representation of AI generating information about Native people. So love it.

[Robert]

My original idea for the series is it would include a lot of pop culture, like, existing pop culture. I went through all these episodes and I found these great, like, south park and Simpsons quotes and stuff, and I wanted that to be a big part of it. And I found a whole bunch of, like, cool musical pieces. And there was one that I really wanted to be the theme for this. This series, but we just couldn't get the rights. It was so hard. So, yeah, I mean, AI isn't my favorite thing in the world for music, but I think it speaks to what these freaking people are about anyway. I mean, they're fake and frauds and phony and cheesy and the songs are.

[Angel]

Fake and frauds and phony and cheesy.

[Robert]

And if you know anything, you could see, see through it. Right. And so, like, I mean, it's just such an apt metaphor when we're talking about pretendience. You know, you see it a picture. Now, the first thing you do is always, like, look for how many fingers they have to see if it's a real picture. Just look how weird their hands are, because AI can never really get hands. Right. And it's kind of the same thing with pretendions. I mean, you just look for a few different things. If you see a feather tattoo as a pretendion, they have a lot of, like, fringe pretendion. If their skin is brown and orange and they have a little bit of it on their white collar, probably pretendion.

[Angel]

So pretendions are like fingers for AI. It just can't get it right. Yeah. I just want to say, like, a heartfelt mido for the people who have subscribed and listened. There's been some really great encouragement out there. I appreciate that. And there's been some, you know, I'll do the cheesy thing and say that the criticism makes me better, and I do carry it, and I do think about it. So. So for those who took the time to subscribe, sincerely, thank you so much, Mado.

[Robert]

Thank you, everybody who liked and subscribed and paid for this and made it so I have a roof over my head. I really, really appreciate it. I really appreciate having the opportunity to tell the stories and to get this point across. Thank you.

[Angel]

And I can hear a Canadian a mile away now. It's incredible. It's the bean we say been you. Do you know, how you been? I've been good. And that's a Canadian response.

[Robert]

These songs just made up? Yeah, they're fake songs. Fake songs we got from a robot. You see, I don't really exist. There is no bad. I hope you're not too pissed. I'm showing you our head. These are fake songs. Fake songs for show about fakers. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's gonna get personal.

[Angel]

I don't know who sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

[Robert]

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Angel]

Hello, it's Giles Whittel. From Tortoise.

[Robert]

Welcome to the news meeting. I think the danger here is that we're not as relentless as we were.

[Angel]

The first time around.

[Robert]

We have to keep that up. Just One newspaper found 30,000 thousand lies or falsehoods or misleading statements during his last term. Now, Trump met the moment here because traditional media is in crisis. We should be talking about how our reporting is getting into the hands of people and how we're building trust with those audience. ACAST Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Angel]

Hi, I'm Pace Case.

[Robert]

And I'm Bachelor Clues. We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast.

[Angel]

We're covering every show on reality TV.

[Robert]

At the highest level possible.

[Angel]

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[Robert]

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[Angel]

Find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.

[Robert]

We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make reality TV a sport. And we interview superstar players like Bachelorette Bristow and Big Brother champion Taylor Hale.

[Angel]

If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.

[Robert]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize, has their podcasts everywhere Acast. Com.