Episode 6: Finesse

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cool Mules | Canadaland Investigates Episode 6: Finesse Release Date: July 9, 2025

---

Introduction

In Episode 6 of Cool Mules, titled "Finesse," Canadaland Investigates delves into an intricate tale of journalism, crime, and personal ambition. Hosted by Kasia Mihailovic, the episode unpacks how Vice editor “Slava P” orchestrated a bold scheme that blurred the lines between reporting and criminal activity. This summary captures the episode's key discussions, insights, and conclusions, providing a comprehensive overview for both regular listeners and newcomers.

---

Slava’s Proposition and Initial Interactions

The episode opens with Kasia Mihailovic reflecting on her initial encounters with Slava, a central figure in the investigation. Slava approached young journalists with a proposition that deviated sharply from typical freelance opportunities.

Kasia Mihailovic [02:06]: "When he first reached out to us, he asked for money. When we said no, he asked if perhaps it could be a partnership. We'd work on this podcast together and co-own the rights to it. We'd say no."

Slava’s proposition was audacious: he intended to smuggle nearly $20 million worth of cocaine into Australia, under the guise of a journalistic endeavor. His initial request for a partnership, rather than monetary compensation, signaled a deeper, more complex motive intertwined with his professional aspirations.

---

Slava’s Strategy: Blending Storytelling with Crime

As the episode progresses, Slava elaborates on his intentions and the narrative he aimed to craft. His overarching goal was to leverage his criminal activities as material for a compelling story, hoping that this would not only bring him acclaim but also mitigate his legal repercussions.

Slava [04:46]: "Whether talking to us, tweeting, or preparing his court documents, Slava was always storytelling, pushing a narrative he hoped would sway both the criminal court and the public."

Kasia probes into Slava’s motivations, questioning whether his obsession with cultural reference points and media influence led him astray.

Kasia Mihailovic [24:12]: "When our questions challenge that, he loses his cool. Like when we asked him if all the cultural reference points he's obsessed with... maybe he took it all too seriously and that's what led him on the wrong path."

Slava responds defensively, attributing his actions to personal shortcomings rather than external influences.

Slava [24:45]: "Now I'm gonna blame the fact I don't have a dad on it. Maybe that's it."

This exchange highlights Slava's initial reluctance to fully acknowledge the potential consequences of his actions and the factors that led him to embark on this risky venture.

---

Legal Proceedings and Sentencing

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Slava’s legal journey. Despite his elaborate storytelling, the Canadian legal system did not afford him leniency based on his professed intentions.

Kasia Mihailovic [31:03]: "It's December 3rd, 2019. Slava shows up for court ready to go to prison in a Canadian tuxedo, jeans and a jean jacket."

During the courtroom scenes, Justice Heather Pringle delivers a mixed verdict, recognizing both the scale of the crime and the mitigating factors related to Slava's journalistic ambitions.

Justice Heather Pringle [Details at 31:12]: "She says that the huge amount of cocaine involved makes this a large-scale scheme... she also says she accepts that Slava came to this criminal plot while he was researching a story for Vice."

Ultimately, Slava is sentenced to nine years in prison, marking a stark conclusion to his attempt to intertwine journalism with illicit activities.

---

Vice Media’s Decline and its Impact on Slava

Parallel to Slava’s personal saga, the episode delves into the broader decline of Vice Media. Once a powerhouse with ambitious expansion plans, Vice faced multiple scandals and financial setbacks that led to its downfall.

Kasia Mihailovic [22:18]: "Vice's valuation continued to rise even as the other big digital newsrooms contracted. The number climbed to $5.7 billion when a private equity firm gave Vice a 450 million investment."

However, the onset of the MeToo movement and internal issues within Vice exposed a culture rife with sexual harassment and misconduct, undermining the company's reputation and financial stability.

Kasia Mihailovic [22:20]: "The New York Times ran another expose... about Vice documenting a history of sexual harassment throughout the company."

These revelations not only tarnished Vice's image but also coincided with its strategic missteps, such as the failed Viceline cable channel and the eventual departure of key executives like Shane Smith.

Slava associates Vice's collapse with his own story, suggesting a personal connection between his fate and the company's unraveling.

Slava [22:53]: "I think they're all going to be gone completely in a little bit. But the point is that Vice kind of collapsed soon after I joined it, and this whole cartel operation collapsed soon after I joined that."

This interweaving of personal and corporate decline paints a picture of a turbulent period where individual ambitions and organizational failures intersected disastrously.

---

Slava’s Courtroom Behavior and Realizations

Throughout the episode, Slava exhibits a complex personality—confident yet vulnerable, evasive yet occasionally transparent. His demeanor in court reflects a mixture of bravado and underlying fear.

Slava [25:13]: "At the end of the day, shitty things will happen to people, but ultimately everybody's gonna be able to kind of walk away from it, you know..."

However, moments of introspection emerge, especially when Kasia confronts him about potential flaws in his character and motivations.

Kasia Mihailovic [24:45]: "Maybe he took it all too seriously and that's what led him on the wrong path."

In response, Slava initially deflects blame but gradually begins to acknowledge the gravity of his actions, culminating in a moment of honesty.

Slava [27:15]: "Yeah, fuck it. I brought cocaine into Australia. There, you happy?"

This candid admission signals a pivotal shift in Slava’s narrative, moving from self-justification to acknowledgment of wrongdoing.

---

The Aftermath and Final Reflections

As Slava’s sentencing concludes, the episode captures the final moments of his freedom and the beginning of his incarceration. Slava expresses a mix of relief and determination, hinting at future projects even behind bars.

Slava [23:13]: "So essentially, the plan is to bring in my recorder with me and do jail podcasts."

Kasia reflects on Slava's journey, noting his persistent optimism despite the bleak circumstances.

Kasia Mihailovic [25:40]: "He didn't even cry in court. Not that time. But he did at his next appearance when he told the judge how remorseful he was about what happened to the others and about how he failed to live up to his own image of himself."

The episode concludes with Kasia emphasizing the personal and professional toll of Slava’s actions, underscoring the complex interplay between ambition, ethics, and consequence.

---

Conclusion

"Finesse," Episode 6 of Cool Mules, serves as a compelling exploration of the blurred lines between journalism and criminality. Through meticulous investigation and candid interviews, Canadaland Investigates unravels Slava’s intricate web of storytelling and smuggling, set against the backdrop of Vice Media’s decline. The episode poignantly captures the human elements of ambition, regret, and the relentless pursuit of a narrative, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the costs of crossing ethical boundaries.

---

Notable Quotes

• Kasia Mihailovic [02:06]: "If he wanted to be our source, there could be no business relationship between us."
• Slava [03:02]: "Jonah Hill. But he's gonna do a Christian Bale thing where he gets skinny and fat in the same movie."
• Kasia Mihailovic [04:29]: "So all of that will be taken into account when it's time for the judge to make her decision."
• Slava [05:55]: "I'm sure that Ali and I would not be receiving similar sentences because for Ali, it was more or less just a money move."
• Slava [07:05]: "Mentally, I'm getting ready for, you know, 18 to 28 months."
• Kasia Mihailovic [23:26]: "The closer we get to his sentencing, the more Slava seems to be pumping up his confidence."
• Slava [26:23]: "I'm being completely honest with what I'm putting forward out there."
• Kasia Mihailovic [27:57]: "I think right here, Slava finally told."

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essence of "Finesse," highlighting the pivotal moments and intricate dynamics that define Slava's story. For those intrigued by the intersection of media and morality, this episode offers a thought-provoking narrative that challenges perceptions and invites reflection.

Transcript

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.

[Richard Karn]

Whoa. When did I get here?

[Kasia Mihailovic]

What do you mean?

[Richard Karn]

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.

[Richard Karn]

It is the future.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

It's. It's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.

[Jesse Brown]

It's all good.

[Richard Karn]

Happens all the time.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose Copperhead with Pocket Pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease all around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just go to getcopperhead.com that's getcopperhead.com for your two free gifts with purchase getcopperhead.com message and data rates may apply. See Terms for details.

[Kristen Bell]

This episode is brought to you by Fizz Mobile. Have you ever looked at your phone bill and your eyes kind of pop out of your skull cartoon style? Well, Fizz would actually never do that to you. The price of your mobile plan will never go up unless you decide to make a change. Visit Fizz Ca to learn more about Fizz Mobile and its long list of added value features. That's Fizz Ca and activate a first plan using the referral code CAN25 to get $25 off and 10 gigabytes of free data.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

There's something I haven't told you yet about why Slava wanted to tell us his story. When he first reached out to us, he asked for money. When we said no, he asked if perhaps it could be a partnership. We'd work on this podcast together and co own the rights to it. We said no. If he wanted to be our source, there could be no business relationship between us. He thought about it for a moment, and then he still told us everything. Later, he explained his thinking. If our podcast goes viral, he would still own his life rights, which producers sometimes pay for when adapting true stories for the screen.

[Slava]

My life rights are worth more than the actual telling of things. I just wanted to make sure I continue to keep ownership over my life.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

We asked him which actor he thought should play him.

[Slava]

Jonah Hill. But he's gonna do a Christian Bale thing where he gets skinny and fat in the same movie.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

To give his story the best chance of success, Slava hedged his bets. While he was talking to us, he was also giving interviews to another journalist, Kate Nibs, who at the time reported for the Ringer. He also wrote and released an ebook titled Finesse, which he says is a work of fiction about the Toronto rap sc, an aspiring music journalist and drug dealing. And while subject to a court order forbidding him from using a computer without parental supervision, he took to Twitter. He tweeted using both his real name and various pseudonyms, like Epstein Forever and Feminism for aids.

[Slava]

It's the purest sense of Twitter. And I'm not doing that for my Slava P account because I get a call from my lawyer every time that happens. They sent me a big thing saying, don't tweet anymore. You know, the little tweet storm I had that opened up the floodgates to people, for people to start reaching out to me to not only check on my welfare and how I'm doing, but also, like, explore further ways for me to tell the story down the line.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Oh, like other journalists getting in touch with you?

[Slava]

Yeah, some journalists, some people in la.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Book and movie people.

[Slava]

Book and movie people.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

All of that happened when he was supposed to be preparing his pre sentencing report, which involves being interviewed by a probation officer.

[Slava]

Well, she's the one who almost, like, does a whole thing about, like, who you are, where you're from. Did you experience any bullying growing up? What was that like? Kind of like a free therapist that doesn't provide any support. Just like all the questions, none of the answers. So all of that will be taken into account when it's time for the judge to make her decision.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Whether talking to us, tweeting, or preparing his court documents, Slava was always storytelling, pushing a narrative he hoped would sway both the criminal court and the public.

[Slava]

Yeah, I mean, we read my agreed statement of facts onto record and we talked about the intention of me getting involved in this as a result of searching for advice story. So I'm happy about that. Now the next step will be to do my pre sentence report with a representative from the court. And that should give the judge a little bit more context so that her sentencing can reflect the entire scope of why I got involved and what I did and why I did it.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

His story is he did it for the story that he only got into international drug trafficking so that he could write about it for Vice. He hopes that story will shave years off his sentence. One person he succeeded in convincing was himself.

[Slava]

I'm sure that Ali and I would not be receiving similar sentences because for Ali, it was more or less just a money move. Whereas for me, there was some professional reason to be pursuing the story.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

But Ali, who has yet to be found guilty in court of anything, has something Slava didn't. A lawyer who has branded himself on social media as a bulldog for those facing drug charges. Deepak Paradkar is a flashy defense attorney who used to go by the handle cocaine lawyer on Instagram. He's been known to wear $1,600 red soled Christian Louboutin loafers covered in spikes to court. Paradkar has posted photos of his quote, cocaine white jaguar and tagged other pictures. Best cocaine lawyer. So unlike Slava Ali, Taki Lalji will be fighting the charges. Still, Slava hasn't been worried. By the time Ali's trial gets started, Slava figures he will probably be free. And the more he told his story about Vice inspiring him to do it, about his difficult upbringing, the more confident he became that it would work. Remember that when we first met him, he thought the authorities were going to make an example out of him. But on a subsequent visit from us, he became more optimistic.

[Slava]

Mentally, I'm getting ready for, you know, 18 to 28 months.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

And then after months of telling and retelling his narrative, Slava had a new prediction. Standing with me in the hallway outside of a downtown Toronto courtroom where we weren't allowed to use recording devices, Slava told me that, quote, the judge will probably sentence me to a hug from my mom for my difficult childhood. I'm Kasia Mihailovic, and this is the final episode of Cool Mules.

[Kristen Bell]

This episode is brought to you by Fizz Mobile. You know those emails you send to your future self to open up like, 10 years later? I got one of those the other day. It was not a pleasant surprise. Not gonna lie, but there is a world where past you can actually give future you a useful, tangible and practical gift. Data Fizz, a mobile carrier based out of Montreal that you can get in Alberta, bc, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec, has got this sick data rollover feature. So if Past you doesn't use all of your data, Future you gets a bump. How about five extra gigs from one month ago? You Fizz has got a ton of other sick features. No fixed term contracts, no price hikes and their sick loyalty program. Visit Fizz CA to learn more about Fizz Mobile and its long list of added value features features. That's Fizz CA and activate a first plan using the referral code CAN25 to get $25 off and 10 gigabytes of free data.

[Jesse Brown]

Greetings my fellow Americans. I'm just joking. I'm not an American. I'm the editor and publisher of Canada Land. My name is Jesse Brown and I don't even know if we're friends anymore. I'm told that we're in some sort of a of a war, a trade war with Americans. But you just listened to one of our podcasts to the Copernic Affair. Thank you for listening to our stuff. I'm going to try to do something very difficult here. I'm going to try to convince Americans to support a Canadian podcast company during a trade war. And I think I'm going to do that. I think I'm going to accomplish that. If you listen to this message, I think you're going to want to support Canadaland. Who are we even? We are the first podcast company in Canada. We've been doing this for 12 years and we do investigations, long form, deep dive, journalistic investigations like the one you're listening to now. This story of Hassan Diab, this story, the Kopernik Affair. Dana and Alex pitched it to a bunch of American podcast companies and international podcast companies. But the industry is not looking for deep dive investigations right now. They are expensive, they are difficult, and they were turned down by people who loved the story but didn't have the budgets for it. Canadaland supported them for this 18 month investigation. We've been doing it again and again. This is how we made our reputation. We began over a decade ago by doing what you would call a me too investigation of a very famous sexual predator here in Canada, a guy named John Ghomeshi. We did that story before, years before the MeToo movement happened. We did that here and we're threatened with a lawsuit for it. We've been threatened with lawsuits again and again and again. Jordan Peterson threatened us with a lawsuit. Hollywood director Bryan Singer threatened us with a lawsuit. I have been surveyed by people who we reported on. My family has been under surveillance. A Republican combat PR firm was enlisted to discredit us. And nevertheless we persist. And we have never been successfully sued for libel or defamation because we care about getting it right. And we take these risks to bring you stories that nobody else is looking at. We take on really big stories and we take on really big and powerful people. And the only way we are able to do that is because our listeners support us. But we have never asked American listeners to support us before because we're called Canada Land. And the idea that Americans would support a Canadian podcast company, to a lot of people, I've been told it's just a joke. They won't do it. I don't think that's true. Our stories are not just for Canadians. The majority of people who listen to the Kopernick affair are American. We are going to be publishing more investigations on this feed on Canadaland Investigates. And by becoming a supporter, you are funding those investigations. And we will give you all the things. We'll give you ad free podcasts and you'll get to hear it before everybody else and you'll get bonus content. You'll actually be paying for Dana and Alex to keep reporting on what happens next to Hassan Diab, because this story is not over. It's3.99amonth. We want it to be like a coffee to support Canadaland. We want it to be like, set it and forget it. You're never going to regret the price of a coffee to fund this scrappy team of like 15 journalists who want nothing but to tell you an amazing story that would otherwise never be told. I will level with you. It is just a surprise to us that you're even here. We're Canada led. We never thought we'd have 100,000 regular American listeners. We are so proud to have you. But we need you to support us the same way we ask our Canadian listeners to support us. And unlike the Canadian listeners, we don't really make much ad money off of our American listeners because we sell mostly Canadian ads. We kind of need this to work. So to get the ball rolling, we have a special offer for the first hundred American listeners to come to canadaland.com investigates and sign up for a year's worth of support. And there's a big discount on that as well. We will ship to you, to your home in America, tariffs be damned. A free Canadaland T shirt. Wear it proudly and defiantly. And by the way, though we give our supporters every perk we can imagine. Our podcasts are free. We do not paywall this content. So what you're really paying for when you support us is you're paying for everybody else to get this stuff. And that's how journalism has impacted because it has reach. We're hoping that just some of you will Support us for 3.99amonth at canadaland.com investigates. Please go do it right now. And thank you.

[Unknown]

Hi, I'm Kristen Bell and if you know my husband Dax, then you also know he loves shopping for a car. Selling a car, not so much.

[Slava]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Unknown]

Thankfully, Carvana makes it easy. Answer a few questions, put in your van or license and done. We sold ours in minutes this morning and they'll come pick it and pay us this afternoon.

[Slava]

Goodbye Truckee.

[Unknown]

Of course we kept the favorite.

[Richard Karn]

Hello other Truckee.

[Unknown]

Sell your car with Carvana today. Terms and conditions apply. Between vacations, errands and everyday summer chaos, sticking to your health goals can be tough. Luckily, Thrive Market does the hard work for you. We're the online healthy grocery store that cuts out the junk ingredients and delivers high quality groceries right to your door. From low sugar beach snacks to organic grill night staples, no matter your health goal, we make shopping healthy a breeze. Go to thrivemarket.com get started for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

A lot of people who've been following this case have noted how unfair it is that Slava has walked free this whole time while others sat in prison half a world away. One of those people is Jake Kavansh, who blew the whistle on Slava at Vice, then took the story to the National Post.

[Jesse Brown]

I had a real like strong feeling to like try and speak to Jordan while he was in prison and I wasn't able to. I was. I tried to reach out a number of times and it's made me realize how lucky I am that I didn't go on a trip like that.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Had he gone, as he initially suggested to Saiva, he might Jake would likely have ended up in prison with the others. And when you're from Toronto, being sent to prison in Australia is different than serving time at home.

[Slava]

There's worse jails to be than Canadian jail.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

In the Australian judge's sentence, she took into consideration how all five of the smugglers were isolated from their families back in North America. Phone calls are difficult what with the 16 hour time difference and the prison's rules and fees. Flights cost about $2,000 per person and take at least 22 hours. And then there's the violence from being incarcerated. Portia Wade told the Australian court that she was sexually assaulted by her cellmate. Jordan Gardner said he experienced racial slurs and violence while in prison. Each of the five said they were suffering from anxiety and panic attacks. On the other hand, when Slava's time in prison was just about to begin, the five people he got involved in this were getting closer to freedom. In fact, most of them have now been released. Nate Carty, the aspiring model from Queens, New York, got out first since he had the shortest sentence. In April 2019, he was released in Australia and returned to New York. He quickly resumed his modeling career. And recently he posted a photo where he stood in front of his own image 20ft high on a digital billboard in Times Square. I've also confirmed with Australian authorities that Porsche Wade is out. Robert Wang got out around Christmas 2019, almost four years to the day he first arrived in Sydney. Only Katiba Senussi and Jordan Gardner remain incarcerated in Australia. They're eligible to be released in April 2020. As for the people at the other end of the scheme, the accomplices who Slava says were actually running things, it looks like they got away with it. According to Slava, the Canadian police had no interest in pursuing them. He says they didn't ask him who supplied the bricks of cocaine. They didn't charge Mike Ford, who Slava refers to as Trey. They didn't ask for the real names of Tweedledee or Tweedledum. And they weren't curious about the Mexican drug cartel that Slava is certain sourced the whole operation. As far as Slava can tell, the bucks stopped at him and Ali. I put this all to the rcmp. They said that because of Ali Taki Lalji's outstanding trial, they weren't able to answer any of my questions. Slava says he's even still on good terms with Tweedledee, who reached out before one of Slava's court dates.

[Slava]

Just reached out, offered support. Not support like, just like, I'm gonna be thinking of you. Hope everything goes good on Thursday. Put me on your visiting list so I can visit. Like, no, not gonna do that. But I said, like, you know, after everything is said and done, we'll grab a beer.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

When asked if any of these people are worried about the fact that he's telling us so much about them and their criminal conspiracy, Sava says no. They knew from the start that he was a journalist. And after all, he's not giving up names.

[Slava]

You know, when People get to a certain prestige in their criminal career. They like to talk about it.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

So he knew you were working on a story?

[Slava]

Everybody knew I was working on a story. Mike knew.

[Jesse Brown]

Fuck.

[Slava]

Trey knew I was working on a story.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

As I've mentioned, I was able to find Michael Ford and send him questions, but he never answered them. And Tweedledum and Tweedledee, the alleged masterminds of this plot, well, I don't even know for certain who they really are. As for Vice, at first they moved onwards and upwards from Slava without missing a beat. They didn't talk about it publicly. After their initial statement to the National Post, in which they denied that they had ever done anything wrong or that they fostered a culture of illicit drug use, they have continued to publish stories like How I Became an International Cocaine Trafficker. My Life as an International Ketamine Smuggler. The True Meaning of Family Day is cocaine. Here's how much. Here's how much you can make smuggling things in your ass. And I smuggle cocaine into the US to try to pay off my student loans.

[Slava]

I got all this cocaine. I knew that I had to test it to make sure that I was bringing pure stuff to back home.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Vice's valuation continued to rise even as the other big digital newsrooms contracted. The number climbed to $5.7 billion when a private equity firm gave Vice a 450 million investment. Hype about a coming blockbuster public stock offering got louder and louder. In magazines like Fortune and websites like TechCrunch. The master plan for world domination that Shane Smith, Soroush Alvey and Gavin McInnes had hatched 20 years ago was about to be fully realized. But then something changed. The New York Times published shocking allegations against movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, kicking off the MeToo movement. The hipster bro culture that Vice, maybe more than any other company represented, was getting more scrutiny in the press. Stories that had been ignored or swept under the carpet for years or resurfaced. The New York Times ran another expose, as did the Daily Beast, and this time the revelations were about Vice documenting a history of sexual harassment throughout the company. An earlier move to change the company's culture by putting feminist icon Gloria Steinem on an advisory committee did not seem to have done much to change the office culture. And Vice admitted that it had failed to create a, quote, safe and inclusive workplace they promised to change. Shortly after, the Wall Street Journal reported that Vice missed its revenue target by $100 million. Then New York magazine ran a deep dive into Vice's history of shady business dealings and reported that male managers across the company who had been the subject of abuse complaints were finally being sacked, including one unnamed senior manager who was quietly fired months after a colleague complained that he had punched her in the face during a sexual encounter. Reportedly, he tweeted on his way out that he was simply leaving Vice to pursue other projects. Vice's plan to bring Millennials back to cable TV fell apart. Their Viceline cable channel posted atrocious ratings, and HBO canceled Vice's nightly news show. Shane Smith stepped aside as CEO.

[Richard Karn]

Now a digital media reality check. Vice Media thought it was cooler than everybody else. It got lots of major media companies.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

To invest in the dream it was selling.

[Richard Karn]

But now reality has intruded.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Disney wrote off half a billion dollars of its investment in Vice, essentially admitting they'll never see that money again. In Canada and elsewhere, Vice's newsrooms were slashed. Vice and Canadian telecom giant Rogers broke up in 2018. The vice office closed in Montreal, the city where it all started. That 27,000 square foot media studio Vice built in Toronto, the one with the office bar where Slava drank with his co workers before hitting the clubs that's currently up for lease.

[Slava]

I think they're all going to be gone completely in a little bit. But the point is that Vice kind of collapsed soon after I joined it, and this whole cartel operation collapsed soon after I joined that. So maybe it's just me.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Slava has a way of making it about him. He's confident that he still has a future in media that will outlive Vice itself.

[Slava]

So essentially, the plan is to bring in my recorder with me and do jail podcasts. My lawyer said that I should absolutely not release those while I'm still in jail and wait till I'm out. So we'll see what that's like.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

The closer we get to his sentencing, the more Slava seems to be pumping up his confidence. For prison, it won't be so bad. He says he plans to learn French.

[Slava]

What do I really do? Like, if I spend all day from 11 to 4 on my bed at home, free, with a laptop open, how is that any different than, like, really spending the day without a laptop or with a book? Like, realistically, there's no difference except for the space that you're in. Like, do you know what I mean? A little bit? Just, like, if you look at things in the abstract or like, in a more quote, unquote philosophical way, I would be a few hours away from home. You know, my family can visit. So, yeah, I mean, it's A bump in the road. It's a few years out of an otherwise good life.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Sliva copes with the idea of what's about to happen. He is going to prison by focusing on the good life he feels he had before all of this or the good life he believes is waiting for him after. But a few times when our questions challenge that, he loses his cool. Like when we asked him if all the cultural reference points he's obsessed with, like, hip hop, crime, movies, pickup artistry, the whole game, if maybe he took it all too seriously and that's what led him on the wrong path, um.

[Slava]

Now I'm gonna blame the fact I don't have a dad on it. Maybe that's it. Who knows? Like, I could tell you that, you know, it's because I didn't have this or I didn't have a good version of that. Mind if I go to the bathroom?

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Sure. He got choked up another time, too. When I told him that I was having trouble finding someone who was willing to give him a positive character reference. He said there was one guy, a rapper he knew, but that friend died in a car accident.

[Slava]

You know, at the end of the day, shitty things will happen to people, but ultimately everybody's gonna be able to kind of walk away from it, you know, all five people in Australia, that shitty thing happens to them, too. But they'll be out, they'll be free. They'll be living a good life. Not everyone gets that luxury. Didn't even cry.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

He didn't even cry in court. Not that time. But he did at his next appearance when he told the judge how remorseful he was about what happened to the others and about how he failed to live up to his own image of himself. When we first talked, remember, like, back in April, I got the impression that what you wanted to tell us is that there is no villain. I mean, you said that there is no villain in this story, right?

[Slava]

But the thing is, like, yeah, you can call me. You can say I have terrible taste in humor. You can say I am a bad journalist. You can say I'm a bad person, but you can't say I'm a liar, right? Like, I'm being completely honest with what I'm putting forward out there. And I take solace in that. You know, at least tell the truth about being a bad person.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

But Slava hasn't always told us the truth about being a bad person. We remind him that he hasn't been completely honest with us. He's lied on the record. Like, the time he Said I took.

[Slava]

A trip to Australia, but I didn't take any cocaine with me. I talked my way out of that. Just use that for any cause. Like, you can editorialize it however you want, and you can say that you don't believe me. That's my on the record statement.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Slava told us why he lied about that. He thought that admitting to it could add years to his sentence. After all, he's never been charged with trafficking cocaine himself. But once he realizes that we may in fact call him a liar because of this, he also seems to realize, and maybe for the first time, that he might not be the hero of this podcast. And that's what finally brings out the truth.

[Slava]

I don't know, like, if that's really what the hang up is about, my honesty with regards to this as me omitting certain things, then, yeah, sure, let's put it all out on the table. Yeah, fuck it. I brought cocaine into Australia. There, you happy?

[Kasia Mihailovic]

So I guess I am kind of happy because I've been hung up from the start about Slava using this podcast to spread false information. But what I've been looking for from the start is why he did any of this. I think right here, Slava finally told.

[Slava]

Me, everybody should want to be the best that they can. Everybody should want to be the most extreme version of themselves available. Like you, who just wants to be a nice guy. Like, nice is what you say about someone when you can't say anything else about them. So I would rather be a specific type of person who does go balls to the wall with everything he does, then be some kind of meek person who like, oh, I did the thing. But, like, I'm so sorry. Like, no, everybody involved in this knew what they were doing, myself included. And there will be consequences to pay, and there will be potentially a reward for. For that down the line. If it's a book deal, a movie deal, whatever have you. The worst thing will be to be unknown, really, in a way, because there's a lot of people who are just unknown, and it bothers people. And that's why a lot of people sit back on the crutch of being nice guys, because they have nothing else. They have nothing. They have no character that they're putting forward that they're able to be hated for because they're just empty. They're just blank slates of people.

[Richard Karn]

Hi, I'm Richard Karn, and you may have seen me on TV talking about the world's number one expandable garden hose. Well, the brand new pocket hose copperhead with pocket Pivot is here and it's a total game changer. Old fashioned hoses get kinks and creases at the spigot, but the Copperhead's pocket pivot swivels 360 degrees for full water flow and freedom to water with ease. All are around your home. When you're all done, this rust proof anti burst hose shrinks back down to pocket size for effortless handling and tidy storage. Plus your super light and ultra durable pocket hose. Copperhead is backed with a 10 year warranty. What could be better than that? I'll tell you what an exciting exclusive offer just for you for a limited time. You can get a free pocket pivot and their 10 pattern sprayer with the purchase of any size Copperhead hose. Just go to getcopperhead.com that's getcopperhead.com for your two free gifts with purchase getcomperhead.com message and data which may apply. See terms for details.

[Unknown]

Between vacations, errands and everyday summer chaos, sticking to your health goals can be tough. Luckily, Thrive Market does the hard work for you. We're the online healthy grocery store that cuts out the junk ingredients and delivers high quality groceries right to your door. From low sugar beach snacks to organic grill night staples. No matter your health goal, we make shopping healthy a breeze. Go to thrivemarket.com get started for 30% off your first order and a free $60 gift.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

It's December 3rd, 2019. Slava shows up for court ready to go to prison in a Canadian tuxedo, jeans and a jean jacket. Yeah. Do you expect to go into I'll.

[Slava]

Be going into custody, yeah. Yeah. So hopefully I think it's you get transported off here at 1 o' clock and 5 o'.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Clock.

[Slava]

So if I can get on the 1 o' clock bus, I'll be able to get settled in at time to watch the Raptors game.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

We walk into the courthouse together along with his mom and some other reporters. There's some confusion about which courtroom we're supposed to head to, and as we're all milling about in the hallway, Saiva's face lights up. He spots his old Vice colleague, journalist Manisha Krishnan, striding purposefully in his direction. Finally, after years of ignoring Slava, after near silence from Vice's management and its newsroom, even after his former colleague Justin Ling told us we were stupid to even be making a podcast about him, a Vice reporter seems to have finally come to court to tell his story. Sliva looks shocked and delighted, but Manisha Looks shocked too when she sees him and stricken. It turns out she's not here to cover Slava for Vice. She's here for Poop Guy. And in Toronto, police have arrested a 23 year old man tonight, charged in a series of sickening crimes. A bail hearing is scheduled for a man who'd been terrorizing Toronto by throwing buckets of feces on random people. The media have been covering the story feverishly. Alicia is just one journalist among many who've come here hoping to cover Poop Guy's bail hearing. But in Slava's courtroom, the gallery is pretty empty. There's us, then the two reporters who originally broke the story for the National Post. A reporter from the Toronto Star and Slava's mom, Jake Kavach, showed up too. The judge, Justice Heather Pringle, goes through her reasoning for her sentence. She says that the huge amount of cocaine involved makes this a large scale scheme and the sentencing needs to reflect that. But she also says she accepts that Slava and his co accused had higher ups telling them what to do. After all, she says, he showed a lack of sophistication by choosing smugglers who themselves didn't really know what they were doing. Notably, Justice Pringle accepts in her decision that Slava came to this criminal plot while he was researching a story for Vice. His underworld connections, she says, came to him through his work. But she says his journalistic ambition was just another version of what really motivated Slava. And that was greed. And then Justice Pringle hands down her sentence. Nine years. She gives him some time after court adjourns to sit with his mother before he's taken into custody. His mom stays with him a bit, then gets up and for a good long while, he sits there by himself. A police officer hands him a Kleenex. He's put in handcuffs and the cop takes a DNA swab of his cheek as they take him away. I remember what he said to us earlier before court. He told us that he'd thought about it and his big fear about this podcast is not that he'll be portrayed negatively. Instead, he pleaded with us. Please don't make it boring. Cool Mules is hosted and reported by me, Kasha Mihailovic, and is written and produced by me and Jesse Brown, research assistants from Jonathan Goldsby. Kevin Sexton is our managing editor. Music by Nathan Burley. Sound design and mix by Chandra Bulacan. We'd also like to thank a few more people by name. Thank you to Amerie Sanford for the amazing illustration that you can find at coolmules CA or on our Instagram page anadalandshow. Thank you to Jessica Valentin for promoting this show. And thank you to Christy Lee. She's the host of Canadian True Crime, an independent podcast that she created to honor and respect victims and survivors of crimes committed in Canada and explore how their loss impacted both their loved ones and the wider community. Search and subscribe to Canadian True Crime or find [e-mail]. thanks Christy. Thank you for listening. If you liked Cool Mules, please leave us a review and spread the word. And please stay subscribed to this feed. We will be publishing updates. If you have any information for me about this investigation, you can reach [e-mail] finally, stay subscribed to this feed for an entirely different investigation, which you'll be the first to hear. We can only do journalism like this with your support. Consider joining [e-mail] Canadaland.

[Slava]

Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

This season on the Dream.

[Slava]

Supplies are being provided by nurses who.

[Unknown]

Run out in the middle of the.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

Night and purchase diapers, but the hospital is still charging as if they still have these items. We are digging into every topic we've ever wanted to cover on this show. It's a spinning plate analogy.

[Kristen Bell]

The second that you stop spinning those plates, that crashes.

[Unknown]

So you can never stop working.

[Kasia Mihailovic]

The Dream Season 4 comes at you weekly. Starting Monday, January 20th, Acast helps creators.

[Slava]

Launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.