Make Native America Great Again

Summary

Podcast Title: The Copernic Affair | Canadaland Investigates
Episode: Make Native America Great Again
Release Date: May 28, 2024
Hosts: Robert Jago and Angel Ellis

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Make Native America Great Again," Canadaland Investigates delves into the controversial political figure Kevin Stitt, the Governor of Oklahoma. Hosts Robert Jago and Angel Ellis explore Stitt's claimed Cherokee heritage, his political stance on tribal sovereignty, and the implications of his policies on Native American communities.

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Kevin Stitt’s Background and Rise to Power

Early Life and Education: Kevin Stitt presents himself as a native son of Oklahoma, hailing from Norman and a member of the Cherokee Nation. He describes his upbringing in a small town with strong Christian influences, attending Oklahoma State University (OSU) and becoming deeply involved in both academics and extracurricular activities.

Kevin Stitt [05:00]: "I'm a pretty typical Oklahoma son...Don't ever give up. Don't ever quit. The future doesn't just happen. You make it happen. So dream big."

Business Endeavors: Post-college, Stitt founded Gateway Mortgage Group in Tulsa with humble beginnings, claiming success despite the looming mortgage crisis.

Kevin Stitt [12:12]: "Gateway is a mortgage lender...we started the company here in Tulsa back in January of 2000 and today we have over 1100 employees."

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Political Ascent and Cherokee Identity

Election Campaign: Stitt's campaign for governor was marked by his declaration as a Cherokee citizen, positioning himself as a unique candidate who could bridge the gap between Native communities and the broader Oklahoma populace.

Stitt [13:29]: "I'm Kevin Stitt...I started Gateway Mortgage Group...I'm a member of the Cherokee Nation."

Public Perception: Despite his self-identification, there was minimal engagement with the Cherokee community during his campaign. His rhetoric often highlighted a desire for uniformity in laws, disregarding tribal sovereignty.

Angel Ellis [04:22]: "He just slips it in on the down low in circumstances where it helps him most."

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Policies Impacting Tribal Sovereignty

McGirt v. Oklahoma Case: The Supreme Court's decision in McGirt v. Oklahoma affirmed tribal jurisdiction over crimes in reservation areas. Stitt's response was antagonistic, seeking to undermine the ruling and enforce state laws uniformly, regardless of tribal treaties.

Stitt [21:32]: "Basically, the McGirt decision said that we still have reservations in our state...that's what I still believe."

Cultural and Economic Rebranding: Stitt initiated efforts to erase indigenous symbols and slogans from state branding, replacing them with generic alternatives, which many viewed as an act of cultural erasure.

Angel Ellis [22:56]: "It's an extra chapter of erasure...we're just gonna wipe you off again."

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Investigation into Stitt’s Cherokee Heritage

Historical Context: In the late 1800s, Oklahoma's land, originally Indian Territory, was allocated to individual Native Americans. During this period, land agents often facilitated fraudulent enrollments to claim land legally.

Graham Brewer and Simon Romero’s Investigation: Their research uncovered that Stitt's Cherokee enrollment stems from his ancestor, Francis Dawson, who paid to be listed as Cherokee to claim land. This method was a common tactic exploited by the Land Bureau agents of that era.

Robert Jago [29:18]: "Why would anybody do that?"

Stitt’s Denial: Governor Stitt denies any wrongdoing, labeling the investigation as "unsafe, substantiated slander."

Stitt [29:57]: "I think there's a lot of...unsafe, substantiated slander."

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Implications of Stitt’s Policies and Identity Claims

Impact on Native Communities: Stitt's policies have sown distrust and tension within Native communities. His dismissal of tribal sovereignty and attempts to enforce state law uniformly are seen as hostile and dismissive of treaty rights.

Angel Ellis [24:49]: "He just fundamentally does not recognize the sovereignty of tribal nations."

Future Prospects: With Stitt's tenure as governor concluding, there is skepticism about his future in politics. Concerns arise about his potential influence at the federal level, particularly under administrations aligned with his conservative ideology.

Angel Ellis [32:14]: "He really would be that conservative solution to the native problem...that just scares the hell out of me."

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Conclusion

The episode "Make Native America Great Again" presents a critical examination of Kevin Stitt's political career and his claimed Cherokee heritage. Through investigative journalism, Canadaland highlights the complexities and tensions arising from Stitt's policies on tribal sovereignty and the legitimacy of his Native American identity. The hosts emphasize the broader implications for Native communities in Oklahoma and the importance of genuine representation in political leadership.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kevin Stitt on Tribal Sovereignty:

  [25:15] "Regardless of your race or where you live, we should all be under the same rules."

• Angel Ellis on Stitt’s Cultural Erasure:

  [24:16] "It really is like an extra chapter of erasure."

• Robert Jago on Pretendian Definitions:

  [31:10] "The whole premise of this series is that we're looking at people who are Pretendians...if we're looking at the sacred card, well, he's a citizen, so he's not a pretending."

• Investigation Findings:

  [29:29] "Stitt had only one direct tie to the tribe, which was Francis Dawson. His ancestor Francis Dawson paid $100 a head for him and his family to be added as Cherokee citizens."

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Key Takeaways

• Authenticity of Identity: The legitimacy of Kevin Stitt's Cherokee heritage is under scrutiny, revealing potential historical fraud.
• Policy Impact: Stitt's approach to tribal sovereignty has significant repercussions for Native communities, challenging established treaties and legal frameworks.
• Representation Matters: Genuine representation in political roles is crucial for advocating and protecting the rights of marginalized communities.

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This episode serves as a poignant reminder of the intricate interplay between identity, politics, and power, urging listeners to critically evaluate the narratives presented by their leaders.

Transcript

[Robert Jago]

Canada land funded by you.

[Angel Ellis]

Hey Robert, did you know that here in Oklahoma we have one of the very first card carrying enrolled native American governors in U. S History.

[Kevin Stitt]

I did not know that governor Kevin stood here. I'm actually a member of the Cherokees and we love our Indian community.

[Robert Jago]

Well, that sounds like progress.

[Angel Ellis]

Well, you'd hope so, wouldn't you? But unfortunately the current governor Kevin Stitt's.

[Robert Jago]

The most anti Indian governor in the history of the state.

[Kevin Stitt]

Let's say an Indian steals your car.

[Angel Ellis]

There hasn't been a governor in modern times that has destroyed that nation to nation relationship.

[Kevin Stitt]

There are tribal governments who want Tulsa to look like the Navajo reservation.

[Robert Jago]

The governor is bent on destroying tribal sovereignty. Even if it costs the state tens of millions of dollars for me to.

[Kevin Stitt]

Do something that's bad for Oklahoma for the benefit of, you know, one race, I'm not gonna do it.

[Robert Jago]

From Canaland Podcasts this is pretendians, a show where we investigate the impact that fakes, frauds and phonies have on real native people. My name is Robert Jago. I'm a freelance writer from the Kwantlen First Nation and Nooksack Indian tribe.

[Angel Ellis]

And I'm Angel Ellis, a citizen of the Muscogee Creek Nation located in Otmulgee, Oklahoma. I've been a writer, editor, journalist for about 15 years.

[Robert Jago]

In the heartland where the fields stretched wide, there's a warrior rising to change back the tide. He's one of your people. He's got papers to prove it, but.

[Angel Ellis]

He doesn't show them off unless it's time to use it.

[Robert Jago]

Vote Republican, vote Cherokee. He's a blessing. That's the truth. Sure. Listen, Oklahoma, this guy's a truth.

[Angel Ellis]

The sky's a twofer. Elder rumor.

[Robert Jago]

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[Kevin Stitt]

Forever.

[Robert Jago]

Even if you have a baby, Even if your baby has a baby, even if you grow old and wrinkly and you start repeating yourself, even if you.

[Angel Ellis]

Start repeating yourself, even if you're on.

[Robert Jago]

Your deathbed and you need to make.

[Angel Ellis]

One last call or text, right?

[Robert Jago]

Or text the long lost son you abandoned at birth, you'll still get unlimited.

[Angel Ellis]

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[Robert Jago]

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[Angel Ellis]

And friends know me for it's being.

[Robert Jago]

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[Angel Ellis]

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[Robert Jago]

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[Angel Ellis]

News does not have to Be Boring Canadaland is a podcast that brings you the news differently. Our reporters break original news stories that you won't hear anywhere else, and our hosts and guests have funny and smart conversations about what is happening in Canadian politics and media. We're living through an era of heightened anxiety and fear.

[Robert Jago]

This Prime Minister is not worth the cost, crime and corruption.

[Kevin Stitt]

I am not a KGB agent.

[Angel Ellis]

Listen to Canadaland wherever you get your podcasts.

[Robert Jago]

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time it's gonna get personal.

[Angel Ellis]

I don't know who sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

[Robert Jago]

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Angel Ellis]

Okay, first things first, Robert. Today's episode is going to be a little bit different.

[Robert Jago]

How so?

[Angel Ellis]

Well, it's not about a person who decided to impersonate being Native. As we've established in earlier episodes, if a legitimate Native nation claims you, and if you carry their sacred laminate card, you're the real deal. Kevin Stitt meets that criteria. He was born a member of the Cherokee Nation.

[Robert Jago]

So in that case, what's he doing on a show about pretendions?

[Angel Ellis]

Well, I promise you, he very much belongs here. But you're going to have to saddle up for this one. And let me tell you why here in a bit.

[Robert Jago]

Okay, you've got my attention. Who is he?

[Angel Ellis]

Here's how he tells it.

[Kevin Stitt]

I'm a pretty typical Oklahoma son. I attended first grade in Wayne, Oklahoma, population 700, and then I graduated from Norman High School. I spent many summers in Skytook helping my grandparents on their dairy farm, and I spent Sundays in church listening to my dad preach. My dad raised me and my two brothers to believe we could do anything we put our minds to. He would tell us, don't ever give up. Don't ever quit. The future doesn't just happen. You make it happen. So dream big.

[Angel Ellis]

So Kevin Stitt looks like he sounds. He's a beefy Christian Southwestern Republican. In high school, he played football, and in college, he joined a fraternity. His Oklahoma upbringing was pretty different from mine on the Res, though.

[Robert Jago]

Okay, well, wait. I know nothing about Oklahoma. Give me the lay of the land.

[Angel Ellis]

So Oklahoma is this highly conservative state. It has this long legacy of racism and violence, and people are literally allowed to wear guns on their hips here. So Norman, Oklahoma, where Kevin and his family eventually settled down. It's like an affluent city, you know, near Oklahoma City And a Division 1 college town, if that means anything to you.

[Robert Jago]

Well, if it's America, it must be about football.

[Angel Ellis]

It's definitely a reference to football.

[Robert Jago]

Okay, so I guess the stereotype is that it wouldn't be normal for a native guy to get rich and move to the suburbs.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, that's not really typical here. It's starting to happen, but it's not the standard at all. His father is a pastor of the Riverside Church, and it's described as an independent, charismatic church.

[Kevin Stitt]

Often people will say, pastor Stitt, did you ever think in your wildest dreams that you would have a son who would be the governor of Oklahoma? And I said, you want to know the truth? We impact the destiny of our children. And then I read in Psalms 112 that the seed of the righteous shall be mighty men on the earth. So I took that promise, and when I would pray over my boys, I'd be praying I'd lift them up. And I said, God, you promised that the seed of the righteous would be mighty men of God on this earth. And I decree that my boys are going to be mighty men of God.

[Angel Ellis]

So faith becomes a really central focus for Kevin. He's getting ready to go to university, and he picks a university in Stillwater, Oklahoma. He becomes Oklahoma State University Cowboy. And it's kind of symbolic in my mind. Like, he lives in this town where OU is located, and that's like, one of the major Native schools in the state. A lot of native kids like to go to the University of Oklahoma, and they have prominent Native programs, but Kevin doesn't want to go to school there. He actually goes to the ag school in Stillwater.

[Robert Jago]

An ag school? This is a university where you become a farmer.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, they have a really prominent farming program. They kind of have this, like, historic cowboys against Indians kind of mentality. And he chose the cowboys. Oh, let me tell you about the mascot at this school that he picks. Okay. Their mascot is Pistol Pete.

[Kevin Stitt]

Pistol Pete, he was a U.S. marshal. He was a bounty hunter.

[Angel Ellis]

He was quite the colorful character modeled after Frank Eaton, the original Oklahoma State Cowboy in 1885. Frank then became a scout in the fight against Geronimo and the Apaches. His school's mascot is the guy who's gone out for the federal government and hunted Indians. And this is kind of where this phase where he's at school at OSU is where we see Kevin Stitt really kind of emerge in his own personality. And you want to know how he made his living while he was in college. Do you remember the movie oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?

[Robert Jago]

I love that movie. It's like one of my top 10 favorites.

[Angel Ellis]

So big Dan Teague going around selling the Bibles.

[Robert Jago]

Yeah, that's John Goodman.

[Kevin Stitt]

Bible sales. The word of God in bulk is a worth. Don't get it, Big Dan.

[Angel Ellis]

It's all about the money, boys. Well, Stit's doing that kind of a job. He's in that line of work. His clients are folks in the gated communities who want to carefully control the education that their children are being exposed to. They don't send them to public schools, they homeschool them. And all these materials that, you know, he's selling door to door, catered to that religious education kind of environment.

[Robert Jago]

So I'm kind of picturing a sales pitch. And the sales pitch doesn't begin with as a proud Cherokee citizen.

[Angel Ellis]

Oh, my gosh, I don't think so. And can you imagine, like an identifiably native person going into a gated community selling things door to door? So this company that he works for actually got banned by Harvard University for recruiting on their campuses. And other universities ended up banning it as well because they felt that the students just weren't safe to go door to door. So Kevin is fucking killing it. He becomes their top salesperson in less than a year. His colleagues in the college newspaper that I dug up, some of his frat brothers say that Kevin was the man on campus. He's involved in intramurals, he goes to parties. He's actually studying accounting. And they say that he's a very driven guy. Like, yes, he comes to the parties, but he doesn't around and do things he shouldn't do. He's actually very goal focused and he's relentlessly pursuing his goals. That's how they describe him. But I couldn't find anything about Kevin being native. And this is what's odd about Kevin and the Stitt family now Let me be clear. It's not un indigenous to be a Christian and it's not unindigenous to be conservative either. We have plenty of those. There are plenty of natives who fit both of those descriptions. But it is odd that there's just no trace of Kevin or his dad mentioning their Cherokee identities at this point or connecting with Cherokee community. I know a lot of native preachers. They have huge circuits in native communities. They hold big congregations and they do church with all the native things you would expect. There's church at the arbors and the fort Fourth Sunday meals and it's, it's pretty common. But Kevin's dad isn't one of those preachers. He's a pretty public person who is only enmeshed in affluent white Oklahoma society without any indication of being native at all. I reached out to Governor Stitt's office to see if he talked to me for this episode. I never got a response. So he's graduated school, he's gotten married, and he's going to start his company. And, and the big thing is Kevin brags that he's like got $1,000 to his name and he puts his home up for equity and he starts a mortgage lending company.

[Kevin Stitt]

So Gateway is a mortgage lender. We originate, we buy, and we service home loans. So I started the company here in Tulsa back in January of 2000 and today we have over 1100 employees. The we have 155 offices. We do business in 40 states.

[Angel Ellis]

Within a few short years, the home mortgage crisis is happening and his company is one of them that's getting in big trouble because they're doing shady deals and they're not really seeing if people can afford the homes they're buying. And so multiple states ban his company from doing business in them. And it's just kind of looking like he's one of those mortgage bankers who caused that home housing crisis of 08 09.

[Robert Jago]

So there's this big structural crisis in the United States and he is a moderate cog in it.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, the thing his company was doing is what many companies were doing.

[Kevin Stitt]

How did the mortgage industry destroy itself and set off an economic collapse that ruined the finances of millions of Americans? Executives tend to hold themselves blameless, saying that no one could have seen the disaster coming.

[Angel Ellis]

So it's 2016, eight years past the subprime mortgage crisis. We've put that behind us. But now Stitt's throwing his name in for the governor's race and he's on the Republican ticket.

[Kevin Stitt]

I'm Kevin Stitt. I grew up in Norman. Dad was a pastor and mom stayed at home. You know, I paid my way through school selling books door to door. After college, I started Gateway Mortgage Group here in Tulsa with an old computer and a dream.

[Angel Ellis]

Kevin Stitt, Conservative Republican, A different kind of candidate for governor. This is when Kevin Stitt for the first time declares himself publicly as a member of the Cherokee Nation.

[Robert Jago]

I'm guessing that most of the Canadians listening to this right now already listen to Canadaland. The Americans. I'm not so sure. For over 10 years, Canadaland has been publishing weekly episodes that look critically at the media, break news stories, and bring listeners like you. Prospectus from across Canada that that you won't find anywhere else. Angel, since you started working on the show, have you been listening? Have you been catching up in all things across the medicine line?

[Angel Ellis]

People are always telling me that you Canadians are nice, polite, boring folks. But I've been listening to some news stories and holy cow, the stereotypes are wrong. You guys are wild. I've heard stories about medical cover ups, election interference, right wing trolls, racism, messed up policing, and something called a poke. Anyway, you guys are like the US but with less guns and a younger, better looking president or leader, whatever you call him. I've learned a lot.

[Robert Jago]

Yep, Canadians are just as awful and outrageous and messed up as Americans are. They just hide it better.

[Angel Ellis]

I'm learning that.

[Robert Jago]

Robert, you can listen to and follow Canada Land anywhere you get your podcasts. To get people excited about Boost Mobile's new nationwide 5G network, we're offering unlimited talk, text and data for $25 a month.

[Kevin Stitt]

Forever.

[Robert Jago]

Even if you have a baby. Even if your baby has a baby.

[Angel Ellis]

Even if.

[Robert Jago]

Even if you grow old and wrinkly and you start repeating yourself.

[Angel Ellis]

Even if you start repeating yourself.

[Robert Jago]

Even if you're on your deathbed and you need to make one last call.

[Angel Ellis]

Or text, right?

[Robert Jago]

Or text the long lost son you abandoned at birth, you'll still get unlimited.

[Angel Ellis]

Talk, text and Data for just $25 a month. With Boost Mobile Forever, after 30 gigabytes.

[Robert Jago]

Customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. I'm used to stories of people suddenly presenting themselves as native, showing up with a tan and a headdress or a feather tattoo. But that doesn't seem like his style.

[Angel Ellis]

Oh God no. You're not going to earn any of the Republican votes in Oklahoma by going sacred. Kevin doesn't change his style. He's still in the Dockers. He's still rocking his polo shirts and the business suits, no tattoos. He doesn't talk about being Cherokee on the campaign trail much. He just slips it in on the down low in circumstances where it helps him most. The first time I ever really caught a glimpse of Kevin Stitt being of a Native background was when I saw one of his mail outs for governor. He says on this mailer that he's Cherokee. And then on the border all the way around, there are Cherokee words in the Cherokee language with the Cherokee's actual Alphabet. That's not like the English Alphabet at all. These weren't super widely circulated mailers, and it actually took some, like tracking down to find a few of them.

[Robert Jago]

What's the response in Indian Country?

[Angel Ellis]

No one I knew in Indian country had heard his name before. I spoke with Graham Brewer. He's a Cherokee journalist who was reporting for High Country News. And in fact, we're from the same town we're from. We're both from Norman, Oklahoma. And I had trouble finding people here who remembered him too. I mean, I think most people in Native communities still didn't really know who he was or who his people were or what his policy points were. But when you talk to tribal leaders.

[Robert Jago]

They were very optimistic that he was.

[Angel Ellis]

Going to be a beneficial to tribal nations in Oklahoma. Chief Batten, the Choctaw Nation, specifically saying that he had really high hopes. At the same time, there's this enormous tribal sovereignty case working its way into the Supreme Courts of the United States. And McGirt versus Oklahoma, ask the Supreme Court who has jurisdiction over crimes committed on the Muscogee Creek nations reservation. The outcome of this case is going to have really huge impacts for the Muscogee Creek Nation and maybe all of Indian Country. This is when Kevin Stitt declares himself publicly as a member of the Cherokee Nation. And we're all thinking this could be a really good thing. Indian country is pretty excited at the possibility of having a Native governor. Maybe he'll have our backs.

[Robert Jago]

Was Stitt actually saying anything about the issue, or is he just saying, I'm a Cherokee? Wink.

[Angel Ellis]

He was just kind of quietly saying, by the way, I'm Cherokee. But what I thought was weird and it first got my attention was that he's not seeking a tribal endorsement. Like, if I, as a Muskogee citizen ran for governor, I would be like, hey, Chief Hill, would you endorse me? And I would be like, out in public talking about being a friend to the natives. Right. But he doesn't do that in his campaign. There's no Handshaking at powwows. There's no going to the res and campaigning, and he doesn't go to community dinners. And he doesn't really make a big deal to talk with other natives. Maybe people should have been more skeptical, but what choice do we have, right? There's Kevin Stitt. There is Drew Edmondson, who's basically drafted the first gaming compact that the state of Oklahoma ever had with the native tribes. And it took some of our gaming revenue. He's running for office. And our other choice, Joey Exotic, you remember that name? The Tiger King.

[Robert Jago]

Oh, with a mullet and a mustache.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah. My name's Joe Exotic and this is Sarge.

[Kevin Stitt]

He was like a mythical character living out in the middle of Bumfuck, OKLAHOMA. The own 1200 tigers and lions and bears and shit.

[Angel Ellis]

The freaking Tiger King, who I'm not even sure you can consider a serious candidate.

[Kevin Stitt]

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

[Robert Jago]

My name is Joseph Maldonado Passage, and.

[Angel Ellis]

I'm running for the state governor's office of 2019.

[Robert Jago]

Right, so. So your choice are the Tiger King. Number two is the Democrat who robbed you of your casino revenues. And number three is somebody who says they're Cherokee, but that's literally the only thing they say about being Native, right? Welcome back to the Oklahomans election 2018 coverage. And there you see it. Kevin Stitt will be the 28th governor of Oklahoma, succeeding fellow Republican Mary Fallon.

[Angel Ellis]

And just a few months later, fuck. Kevin Stitt lets all of us know how he really feels about the natives. He writes this op ed in the Tulsa World newspaper, and it's like one of the first things that he does as governor. He writes that as a Cherokee citizen and as the governor, he thinks the profit sharing deals that the native tribes have with the state of Oklahoma are unfair. Unfair to the state of Oklahoma. So he says he's going to renegotiate these deals so that a lot less money goes to the natives. Here's how Graham Brewer described it. I remember Sid had a press conference at one point where he. He'd blown up the language of the compact onto like a big poster board. And it. And it was like saying, you know.

[Robert Jago]

That the compact did dissolve on this.

[Angel Ellis]

Date, but then he failed to put the second half of the sentence after the comma, which was that the tribes.

[Robert Jago]

Had some control over when that would.

[Angel Ellis]

Be and what that renewal would look like. And so that's kind of when you started seeing this pattern in Governor Stitt's rhetoric that really kind of misconstrued or misrepresented like, not only just, like, relationships.

[Robert Jago]

With tribes, but like, of, like, what.

[Angel Ellis]

Tribal identity is and like, what the legal limits are to some of these, like, jurisdictional questions.

[Kevin Stitt]

Basically, the McGirt decision said that we still have reservations in our state. Everybody has been operated that we don't have reservations since 1907, since statehood. And that's what I still believe.

[Angel Ellis]

Then in 2020, the Supreme Court upholds the McGirt case, which is a huge relief to us as Muskogee people. You'll remember it's one of the reasons why so many natives supported Stitt. They hoped he'd go to bat for us on this case. Turns out he was pushing hard the other way. And then he goes on Fox News complaining to Tucker Carlson how unfair it is that Natives in Oklahoma have rights that the rest of the state does not have. Robert, you need to hear this.

[Robert Jago]

What does it mean for your state that it's no longer part of the United States?

[Kevin Stitt]

Parts of it, or what?

[Robert Jago]

What is this?

[Kevin Stitt]

We have now had a change of rules. The state, if there's an Indian involved, has lost jurisdiction to prosecute those crimes. And when you think about who's an Indian, you could be 1-500th, 1,1000th. I've actually got my Indian card. My six children with blonde hair and blue eyes, they all have their Indian card. So our police are having a tough time because you can't tell who an Indian is and who's not an Indian in eastern part of Oklahoma. So this is on the basis of race.

[Robert Jago]

So depending upon the racial category you're in, you're treated differently by law enforcement.

[Kevin Stitt]

Seems to be what you're saying. That's exactly right.

[Angel Ellis]

Luckily, the laws he's trying to change are federal, so they're out of state jurisdiction. And the courts throw out his cases. But the anti Native stuff he does in Oklahoma isn't just about money or lawsuits. It's cultural, too. He starts rebranding the whole state of Oklahoma, and he removes all indigenous symbols on all the state. Branding. Oklahoma's slogan used to be Native America. It was written on our license plates, tourism campaigns, and all the state literature. Stitt wipes that away. Now all the state tourism materials and license plate just have a generic star in the slogan. Imagine that.

[Robert Jago]

What are we meant to imagine? Imagine that you're north of Texas.

[Angel Ellis]

That's what I say when someone says something completely bonkers and I don't really agree with them. I just go, imagine that.

[Robert Jago]

Was Bless yous Heart taken?

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, yeah. Bless yous Heart was already taken. By someone else.

[Robert Jago]

That is a uniquely uninspired idea for branding. And remember, this is branding. It's meant to distinguish you and to make you unique. You know, if I say the Show Me State, which one's that? That's Missouri, Golden State, California, Empire State, New York. Imagine that.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah.

[Robert Jago]

Yeah, it falls totally flat.

[Angel Ellis]

It really is like an extra chapter of erasure. And from the history books, it's like, yeah, you were here, but we're just gonna wipe you off again. The next big thing that starts really emerging is that he refers to race. And he suggests every time he speaks about the McGirt Supreme Court ruling or gaming rights or hunting and fishing rights, he says that people should have the same rights regardless of race. And he says it's not fair to have two sets of rules and that these natives can do something and the white folks can't.

[Kevin Stitt]

Let's say an Indian steals your car. Then the state of Oklahoma can't prosecute that person. I think that's a problem. I'm actually a member of the Cherokees, and we love our Indian community. I mean, they're all our neighbors. They're our friends. I will fight as long as I'm governor to make sure that we're one state with one set of rules. Regardless of your race or where you live, we should all be under the same rules.

[Angel Ellis]

He starts really pushing that rhetorical racial language. It starts to sow a lot of seeds of discontent amongst Oklahomans. So people in their little suburban neighborhoods are starting to look over at their neighbors who might have a tribal car tag, and they're like, you're the asshole who's doing all these things, and you get all these privileges. And I don't.

[Robert Jago]

I guess the argument that I would make about race in this case is that you can't just be a Native American, show up in Oklahoma and have separate rules. You actually have to be a citizen of a sovereign nation that has a compact with the United States.

[Angel Ellis]

The problem when Kevin Stitt uses race as a signifier is that it's not really about that the tribes exist because of a sovereign nation's agreement with another sovereign nation.

[Robert Jago]

And the thing that he's overlooking, or that a lot of people overlooking, is that these are agreements between the Muskogee and the Cherokee and the Seminole and whomever else, and the United States government and has nothing to do with the state. And there's no other treaty that America makes where a state would come in and try and override it. Like, you're not seeing Texas override NATO or something the NATO treaty or you're not seeing Washington State overriding the, the North American Free Trade Agreement. So I mean, what he's doing here is really, really extreme.

[Angel Ellis]

Here's Graham Brewer again.

[Kevin Stitt]

I, I think there's a lot of.

[Angel Ellis]

People outside of Indian countries, certainly not Native people that like, don't really understand the difference between racial identity and political identity when it comes to indigeneity or, you know, are familiar with these concepts at all.

[Robert Jago]

With this long list of stuff that he's done, it sounds like this guy is really, really hostile to Native people. Is he actually a member of the Cherokee Nation?

[Angel Ellis]

That's the million dollar question.

[Robert Jago]

This episode of Pretendience is brought to you by AG1.

[Angel Ellis]

Robert we've both been trying AG1. I know you're a West coast guy, so you're no stranger to wellness and supplements. What are you noticing since you started?

[Robert Jago]

The first thing I noticed since I walked to work every day was a bit more of a spring in my step on my morning walk. The walk home, I feel more energized too. That's all uphill. So I'm thinking it's helping sustain my energy throughout the day. It's also helping with my digestion too.

[Angel Ellis]

You know, that makes a lot of sense because AG1 has a lot of good stuff in there like vitamin C, magnesium, digestive enzymes. They call it a foundational nutritional supplement.

[Robert Jago]

AG1 recommends drinking AG1 first thing in the morning. Every morning on an empty stomach for optimal absorption. Mix one scoop of AG1 with about 8 to 10 ounces of cold and drink.

[Angel Ellis]

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[Robert Jago]

Remember to always keep your AG1 in the fridge for optimal freshness.

[Angel Ellis]

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[Robert Jago]

Check it out.

[Angel Ellis]

This guy's unlike any Native we know. So is he even for real? And I know some journalists who have tried to go figure out what his relationship to that tribe is. Graham Brewer teamed up with another reporter, Simon Romero, and their investigation into Stitt's ancestry was published as a collaboration between High Country News and the New York Times. To understand his ties, you have to go back to before Oklahoma was even a state. In 1889, the area that we call Oklahoma was owned by natives and it was broken down into allotment land. That means each native man, woman and child got 160 acres collectively. It was referred to as Indian Territory. And around this time, oil is being discovered. So Graham Brewer's 2020 investigation in high Country News found that Kevin is only enrolled Cherokee because one of his ancestors frauded the government and paid to be on its rolls. Stitt had only one direct tie to the tribe, which was Francis Dawson. His ancestor Francis Dawson paid $100 a head for him and his family to be added as Cherokee citizens.

[Robert Jago]

Why would anybody do that?

[Angel Ellis]

It's just to get some free land. The reward, 160 acres for 100 bucks. So that land is worth about $11 million today. And if you own land as an indigenous person who's a member of a tribe, it's not taxable. There was this easy way to get land and all it took was payment to one of those land agents registering as an Indian on the rolls and he got some acres.

[Robert Jago]

How common was this?

[Angel Ellis]

It was actually so common because they already knew, knew the land had oil. This is like killers of the Flower Moon stuff, you know, they know that this land is valuable and so they start allowing. And it's common practice. Lucinda Hickory foundation is doing research and it found that most federal Land Bureau agents did take these bribes. It was so common practice, it was like their bonus. Governor Stitt denies this claim and he calls it unsafe, substantiated slander. We do know that the Cherokee Nation, you know, this is around 1900, the Cherokee Nation was disputing some of these people who were on these rolls and they were trying to appeal it. According to the court transcripts, that when the Cherokee Nation challenged Francis Dawson's enrollment.

[Robert Jago]

The federal courts decided at the time.

[Angel Ellis]

Was that the roles were final. So around 1900, the Cherokee Nation tried to disenroll Francis Dawson, but the federal government ruled in favor of the Dawson family and they were kept on the rolls. So the Cherokee Nation right now doesn't technically have a process for disenrollment.

[Robert Jago]

Well, I think we should take about 20 steps back here. I mean, the whole premise of this series is that we're looking at people who are Pretendians and we define pretendings in a specific way. And that is people who are indigenous, who are citizens of indigenous nations. That is a person who is a native person. So if we're going citizenship first and we're looking at the sacred card, well, he's a citizen, so he's not a pretending. Full stop. No.

[Angel Ellis]

But the tribe tried to kick his ancestor off in the 1900s. Not only does Kevin not show, because, I mean, I know natives who just don't know their culture or don't know their language and they're trying to reconnect. Kevin doesn't even do that. He basically is just like, yup, the federal government, let me in, and the rest, fuck you, I'll do what I want. And it really doesn't even seem like he's ever cared about Indian people.

[Robert Jago]

I mean, caring about Indian people isn't really a test of sovereignty, though. It's just a test of, like, good taste.

[Angel Ellis]

If I had to do a prediction, though, I think that someday when Governor Stitt is not the governor, I feel like the Cherokees are going to boot him. I'm just putting my money on it.

[Robert Jago]

Okay, so what is he up to now?

[Angel Ellis]

Right. He's in his last term, so Kevin's not going to be governor anymore unless he pulls some miracle out of his ass. And we'll have to just watch. I feel like he's got a. A life left in politics, but I don't think it's going to be in the state. I think he's going to jump fed.

[Robert Jago]

Right, Because I've seen him pop up in the news quite a bit lately, especially with this Texas border stuff. It sounds like he's sort of trying to set a stage for him to get interior under a Trump administration.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, he. He really would be that conservative solution to the native problem, but I would encourage whoever would appoint him to that office to really look at his track record in court. He loses a lot.

[Robert Jago]

I mean, so does Trump, though.

[Angel Ellis]

Yeah, that's true. So, Robert, as you heard, Kevin Stitt has some extreme ideas about natives. He just fundamentally does not recognize the sovereignty of tribal nations. He uses his Cherokee status, which he inherited from his Pretendian ancestor, to lend credibility to his wild ideas. Now, when he was just in the government at the state level, there were some limits to how much harm he could do to us. But imagine this guy as the token Indian of a Trump administration. That just scares the hell out of me.

[Kevin Stitt]

Hi, Governor Kevin Stitt here. I am so thankful for President Trump's leadership. This crisis that President Biden has created at the border is unbelievable. Just found out that President Trump just gave me his endorsement for my re elect.

[Robert Jago]

This is Rick Santorum.

[Angel Ellis]

When it comes to the issues that are most important to us, protecting the unborn, defending our borders, and standing with President Trump and his conservative agenda, I.

[Robert Jago]

Know Kevin Stitt is the man for the job.

[Kevin Stitt]

I'm a proud Red blooded warrior running.

[Robert Jago]

For the throne Gonna break the barriers make this country my own with my boots on the ground I'm chasing a dream A Republican Native American Hear my battle screams Gonna rise from the ashes Hear the war tongues call.

[Angel Ellis]

And that's our show.

[Robert Jago]

Next time on pretendience.

[Kevin Stitt]

There are monsters in those digital waters and she's certainly one of them.

[Angel Ellis]

I was a white person doing this work. Would you be asking me that question?

[Robert Jago]

Our executive producer and editor is Jesse Brown.

[Angel Ellis]

Additional production from Caleb Thompson.

[Robert Jago]

Julie Shapiro is our contributing editor.

[Angel Ellis]

Canadalands Editor in chief is Karen Pulesi. We want to make it super easy for you to become a Canada Land supporter For a limited time, for just $2 a month, you'll get our next episode right now. And you'll get bonus episodes and every episode of this show early and ad free.

[Robert Jago]

Just go to canadaland.com join or click the link in your show notes. You can listen ad free and early on Amazon music included with Prime.

[Angel Ellis]

Thanks for listening.

[Robert Jago]

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time it's gonna get personal.

[Angel Ellis]

I don't know who sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

[Robert Jago]

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcast. The new Boost Mobile network is offering unlimited talk, text and data for just 25amonth for life. That sounds like a threat. Then how do you think we should say it? Unlimited talk, text and data for just.

[Kevin Stitt]

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[Robert Jago]

I don't know.

[Angel Ellis]

Until your ultimate demise.

[Robert Jago]

What if we just say forever?

[Angel Ellis]

Okay, $25 a month. Forever.

[Robert Jago]

Get unlimited talk, text and Data for just $25 a month. With Boost Mobile forever after 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay 25amonth as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies, and this episode is sponsored.

[Kevin Stitt]

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[Robert Jago]

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[Kevin Stitt]

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[Robert Jago]

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[Kevin Stitt]

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[Robert Jago]

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