A (3:30)

Right.

C (3:32)

I want to get something out of the way. So you posted. Either you or the state posted something about your job change on LinkedIn. And one of the first comments I saw was from Doug Robinson, the executive director of nasio, and he was asking about your socks. So what was he talking about?

A (3:48)

A few.

B (3:50)

A few years ago, I was doing some keynote panel at nasio, and I think then CIO for the state of Texas, Amanda Crawford and I, and maybe one or two others conspired to surprise Doug along with. I think it was actually maybe the brainchild of some NASIO staff members that we would surprise Doug on stage by having Doug socks on. And so there are socks, literally with his picture on it that we wore on stage just as a surprise.

A (4:24)

Okay.

C (4:25)

So my article mostly got that right.

A (4:27)

Except these are bootleg NASIO socks.

C (4:30)

These are not official NASIO socks at times.

B (4:32)

These are collector items.

A (4:34)

Oh, yeah.

B (4:35)

I might actually put them on ebay one day, you know, just to see at auction how many people bid on, you know, the Doug socks if you

C (4:45)

could ever bring yourself to part with them.

B (4:47)

Yeah, yeah. That's careful consideration there.

C (4:53)

Right.

A (4:54)

So what was it like working with Tim Walls?

B (4:58)

You know, it was really amazing from day one. And I couldn't be more appreciative of the opportunity that he gave me and that he really gave the technology organization within the executive branch. And really the opportunity, which is anything that anyone in our roles could ever wish for is high expectations, just a confidence and an expectation that technology would be at this intersection of being an engine for government and ushering new opportunities and important policy program areas. I remember, I can remember almost exactly where I was standing when he offered me the job. And at the end of the conversation, we kind of had an agreement with one another. Probably a little bit more of an ask of me related to no surprises. And, you know, that we would work incredibly transparent with one another. And, you know, this was pre Covid and, you know, along the way, in the last seven years, there were no shortage of surprises. And so, you know, I think about that, you know, at times just the Ups and downs. And you know, I think one of the things that he did that was really remarkable. And I still don't know, you know, if personally I embody this, but I definitely have seen it always in our cabinet. And certainly something that I aspire to, a servant leadership approach was, you know, really a non negotiable for the types of people that he looked for in leadership roles. And when I think about the work that, you know, we did through crisis, through opportunity, through modernizing critical areas, you know, through all the, the various cycles over, over two terms, you know, that kept coming out more and more, that being a servant leader, you know, really was at the core of how this work and this one Minnesota plan was, was approached. I had a chance to be with them every day at times, you know, during the toughest of times, during COVID you know, where you don't see, you know, politicians where you, where you see only human beings that really have a immense responsibility as it relates to how can I help people in a moment of crisis. And when you see the empathy and the compassion and the selflessness that that work was approached to, certainly many decisions that are not popular during those types of times. They were never done though, with a personal consideration of like, is this a politically savvy decision? They were always done in the best interest of, you know, is this what's best for people in Minnesota? And you know, sometimes that gets lost, right? The, the rhetoric, you know, gets loud and, and the, you know, this and that and, and the hard way of finding our way back to, to, to the truth sometimes. But when you get a chance to have that behind the scenes, you know, when you're making, you know, or a part of really difficult decisions, I think you do get to see the core of what's within people and that continually, you know, got embedded really incredibly proud of the state rolling out paid family medical leave program that has already benefited tens of thousands of people that are now able to stay home and you know, take care of a child or stay home with an elderly family member that needs help. And you know, those types of programs as it relates to fighting child childhood poverty or other things like as a technologist, when you get to lean into that work, it's. It's just incredible and meaningful.

C (8:27)

Right. And the pandemic was very much in that vein. I think the role of CIOs was really illuminated. That was one of the big stories from pandemic and just technology generally how important it was. And it was a wake up call for a lot of organizations. Just where a lot of their weak points were. What do you remember from going from, I guess it was March 2020 when things really started to, to get real for everybody going from then and going, going forward. What, what can you recall in terms of what needed to be done and, and how you address that work?

B (9:04)

Yeah, you know, one of the things that will always, you know, stay with me and I think everyone feels like this probably in the, in the function areas, you know, that, that you're in. But one of the things that will always stay with me is just how the technologists in Minnesota ran towards, you know, opportunity when, you know, there was certainly a lot of uncertainty, I'm sure in their personal lives. Technology technologists really rose up. You know, whether it was in the immediate aftermath of, you know, supporting a work from home environment, you know, for 45,000 people instantaneously and developing new processes. Wherever there was a need, there was a hand going up from a technologist, you know, that was, I think we can do that, I think we can craft a solution, I think we can make that work in a way that really, I think spurred confidence in the transformative impact that technology can have for the years afterwards and in particular in the speed. I can still remember when news came that the first Covid vaccines would be available, 20,000 doses in the first week for Minnesotans, with over a million people eligible for those 20,000 doses. Right, like that is a huge challenge with how do you decide who and how do you put the digital capability in place that allows for those 20,000 doses to be distributed as fast as possible? And I remember people in tears as they essentially had a ticket to go receive a vaccination doses and that the digital technology really reduced stress because we didn't make it a, you know, each week, you know, come hit the enter button and apply for this, you know, and then you, you're waiting, you're waiting, you're waiting. We created a mechanism where you can sign up and you can sign up, you know, at any point in time. And then a lottery was ran that determined, you know, who had access and the data work. And so, you know, really the enduring memory was, was really two things. One, just technologists just really meeting the moment and the confidence that the executive branch really had in that solutions could be crafted in a timely manner to meet those moments. And I think that confidence has really been a springboard forward not just for public sector, but for technology organizations really across the globe.

C (11:30)

Speaking of kind of wonky behind the scenes IT stuff coming to the forefront, it Was kind of a moment for us when I think I forget which outlet it was. Some local paper picked up that Tim Walls had said that Minlars was keeping him up at night. And I thought that was not surreal exactly, not to that extent. But it was interesting to hear something. This thing that you'd think would be not necessarily a big deal for him was apparently bothering him. Is that something that you worked on much?

B (12:05)

Yeah, it was really the very first thing when he offered me the job. It was, and we have to fix this. It was something that his administration inherited. It was considered to be, in a bipartisan manner, a service area that really needed to be improved. And technology was kind of at the core of that opportunity. And in a bipartisan way, you know, together in partnership with the legislature. We at the time had a group that we. That the governor commissioned called the Blue Ribbon Council on Technology. And with the chairman at the time of the that Blue Ribbon Council, I knew that that modernization wasn't going to be a problem. You know, what was difficult 10 years ago certainly isn't difficult, you know, now, and wasn't difficult like every year. Even large scale modernizations, you know, with the right experience, wherewithal, are more and more manageable with the right vendor partners and fixing that was kind of a core campaign promise. And within the first year of his administration, we certainly delivered that right.

C (13:16)

And I guess I should have. For anyone who doesn't know, that was the Minnesota Licensing and Registration System. So DMV or whatever your version of the DMV is, it was an ongoing, major, expensive, way over budget, way over deadline project that eventually got sorted out under walls. So. Okay, well, that sounds like it was maybe not a super fun project, but were there any that you consider your favorites or things that you think exemplify the work you did during your time with the state?

B (13:50)

You know, in some ways, I mean, it's almost like picking favorites from family members and kids. I certainly anything that has this large impact on people and improving opportunities for people, you know, sits at the core. I think the driver and vehicle services modernization was incredibly fun. You know, there was just a lot to it. And ultimately it led to much higher satisfaction and confidence by people that, you know, are interacting, whether they're getting, you know, a driver's license or the license plates or registering a vehicle, you know, the way you expect that to work. And the digital services, you know, that underpin that really respect people's time, you know, moments when we were able to use new data sources, you know, maybe Medicaid eligibility to provide food benefits for children in Minnesota. You know, really meaningful when you're able to extend food benefits in the summer, you know, for 300,000 children. And there's a technology underpinning related to that modernization. From a workers compensation perspective, one of the things that I'm incredibly proud of is the work related to modernizing Minnesota's child welfare information system. Families and children that are within the child welfare system, you know, when they become adults and they come back and they ask, you know, how did the state help me? They really deserve and should look at, you know, the technology underpinnings that social workers and people that are responsible for helping them, that they have everything that they possibly can, can have to really create a bright future for those kids in the child welfare system. I think ultimately it's the culture, though. It's a culture that from the legislature to the administration to the cabinet, now looks towards technology as being this transformative engine, whether it's prepayment review work for Medicaid claims, or whether it's rolling out paid family medical leave in a time as expected, delivered on schedule, on budget in a really integrity, high customer centric manner. The transformations that have happened across the executive branch, really across all digital service in so many different areas, but that culture is the most important one. A culture where there's confidence that the technology organization not only can deliver, but they're really a core part of the business. They change the results and they are a tangible part of, of achieving positive results for government.

A (16:26)

Right?

C (16:27)

Well, I think that's what everyone kind of looks for in their work, right? You don't want to just be showing up every day and that's right. For no reason.

A (16:35)

So this question kind of goes back

C (16:37)

to what you talked about when you're first interviewing for the job and looking forward to what the role would entail. Did you have an idea of what, Obviously you didn't know the pandemic was coming, or at least I hope you didn't. And did you have an idea of what this job would be? And, and then, you know, the, the follow up to that is, how did, how did things turn out compared to your expectations? Was there anything unexpected about this job

B (17:02)

or, you know, I think I, I, I had an idea, but anyone, you know, coming into a job like this, you know, depending on your, your background, there are 2,500 technologists that work in our organization, one technology organization for the entirety of the executive branch and such. A diverse group of agencies, if you will. Everything from healthcare to unemployment insurance to state Parks such a diversity of business needs that are met. So it's a lot of complexity, It's a lot to get your arms around. And certainly we approached it very ambitiously and we continually, I walk into meetings and I continually, you know, just want everyone to know that if there is anything that you think technology can help as it relates to business outcomes, you know, don't ever hesitate to have high aspirations. Like don't settle when, when we have systems that are, that are old or, or not performing well, it's because we choose to have them. It's not because we have to have them. And, and, and changing that mindset that ultimately collectively we have choice over how services are delivered. That, that culture component of it, you know, was something that I knew I was going to walk every day to try to espouse a human centered approach to change and opportunity. And that change is hard though. You know, organizational change management, as things change that have been in place for many years is difficult. If there was, you know, something that, you know, was really just, I think, wonderful and I can't compare it to a lot of different cabinets, but over the seven years that I was in this role, the people that I worked with, the cabinet that was a part of the walls Flanagan administration was never silent. The interagency work that occurred, the partnership between commissioners of any agency, and I don't think that always exists. I think in many instances, you know, those silos where, you know, that cross agency spirit and collaboration, sometimes, you know, stymie's progress. And so I think that really set the foundation for, you know, really making so much positive change happen.

A (19:21)

Right.

C (19:22)

Well, for the next administration and the next cio, we don't know who those people are going to be yet. Do you want to put something in a time capsule for those people with regard to the CIO job? What would you say to, what would you say to them?

B (19:38)

Wow, that's, you know, that is a fantastic question. I mean, I think the, you know, one thing I would say for any incoming administration and this, you know, everything from the federal level to state levels is I do think that technology is the engine of government in many, many different ways. And you have to have a incredibly strong technology team to implement whatever policy aspirations you may have. If you think about, you know, policy aspiration related to paid family medical leave, if you don't have the business and technology partnership to actually make that happen, you know, then, then you only have that aspiration. And so investing in a very forward oriented, delivery oriented technology organization is really, really important. You cannot think of technology organizations as those that run data centers and networks and servers. That is not it. You have to think of them as really being fundamental contributors to the outcomes that you're aspiring to. And then I think the partnership across government, local forms of government, you know, connecting with tribal nations and counties as it relates to the human services space and in our case, the Department Children, Youth and Family space, that that partnership and togetherness, when the service delivery really is a continuum of funding provided at the federal level, that is administered at the state level, and ultimately the services are delivered at the county or tribal nations level, require a partnership and collaboration that has to be deep. And I would just continue to really build on that because I think in Minnesota, really, we're on the brink of a really terrific joint vision and ultimately that impacts so many people that rely on those types of services. Be aspirational, like no ask should be too big for the technology organization.

A (21:40)

A thanks to Tarek Tomes for appearing on the podcast. That's it for this episode. The Priorities Podcast is a production of Scoop News group in Washington, D.C. production work is done by Adam Butler and Carlin Fisher. I'm Colin West Wood.

C (21:52)

Thanks for listening.