C (2:33)

So, you know, one of the things I love about our podcast and doing webinars and really being of service, it's like when you're, like, inside yourself and you're having a difficult time or whatever, and you get to shift and you just fully get involved, it's just like, I don't know, it's like sitting with clients. You know, it's like, no matter what, if I have a stressful day when my focus is just on someone else and being of service, it just is like, so it's really good to be here. So I don't know, I almost feel a little bit, like, selfish today. Like, maybe this podcast is not about me, but it's about you guys. But it's like just kind of getting us out of our own place. And of course, we had some espresso before. We have to recover. So if we're talking really fast, we are caffeinated. Super caffeinated. But anyways, if you guys missed last week's podcast with Pia Arendelle, you want to make sure you check that out. She talked to you guys about acing and audit. So if you do take an insurance. If you do take insurance and get a little bit freaked out about an audit or you've gotten a letter that you're gonna be audited, you definitely want to listen to this. And she actually. We often have people podcasting from different places, and she had to hide out in her pantry, I think it was.

B (3:35)

Yes, we've had vaults, we've had closets.

C (3:37)

We'Ve had pantries, we've had guest bedrooms, I think.

D (3:40)

Yep.

B (3:42)

That's the great thing about podcasting. You can do it anywhere.

C (3:44)

That's right. That's right. So let's take a quick break for our sponsor.

B (3:48)

Yes, today's sponsor for this episode is therachat. Therachat makes it really easy for you to engage with your clients in between sessions, and clients and therapists both love using it. Therachat actually is an app and a website that allows you to assign pre made customized homework in between sessions. You can transfer documents, you can send unlimited messages to all of your clients. It's fully secure and it's HIPAA compliant, which is awesome. Therapists actually describe it as revolutionary and an essential companion. We've actually had the opportunity to look inside therap chat and to use it, which has been an amazing experience. And as therapists, we want to make sure that the work that we're doing with clients is most effective and that we're being as efficient as possible and being able to help them. And sometimes when you assign homework, they don't follow through. So this is a great way to help them to be able to be more accountable and follow through, helping to improve therapist and client outcomes as well. So try TheraChat now and experience it yourself. With coupon code TPPs, as in the private practice startup, you'll be able to get one month free, which is a $40 value. So make sure you head over to our show notes for this episode and you'll see the link for therachat there. So without further ado, let's dive into today's topic.

C (5:07)

So we are with Carol Park. Carol is a therapist and also the creator of Theralink. So we're going to be talking about that. But today's topic, when Carol and I spoke, we to put a little bit different spin on. We've had quite a few technology podcasts and so I found out that Carol loves Brene Brown and we're huge fans. So today's topic is the daring way of technology and therapy. So we're going to be talking about this really cool spin. So officially welcome. Carol, how are you?

D (5:36)

I am good. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

B (5:40)

We are excited to have you here.

A (5:42)

Yeah.

B (5:43)

So tell us a little bit about fairlink.

D (5:47)

So basically we are a HIPAA compliant secure video platform to be able to do online sessions. But it's more than just the video. You can do scheduling, clients can schedule with you through the platform. We have document sharing, we have notes, just basic notes. So it just is an enhancement of your practice for some an extension. Extension of your practice to be able to do online sessions in addition to be in the office. But we have customers that have exclusively online practices as well. Let me just give a little bit of background. Thera link basically started from my own experience with my clients. My two guiding principles in therapy are connection and meeting the client where they are. So in as my practice went on, when girls would go off to college, they would want to Skype back in the day before we knew about HIPAA compliant platforms and such. And so I was like, well, it's a great transition. Yeah, let's Skype. And so then I started hearing, oh, you're not really supposed to use that and it's not secure. And I Kind of knew it. Why? Because it pops up so and so's online. And so at that point, basically we decided, well, what's out there is mainly for physicians and it's expensive and they're kind of difficult to use. So we created Thera Link to be affordable, easy to use, and basically to help keep a connection and meet the client where they are. So of course, in therapy, meeting them where they are is like, okay, I'm not going to start where I think you should be. We're going to just start right where you are and then we're going to just take one step at a time. But of course, with Fairlink, it's literally meeting the client where they are in their dorm room at college while I'm in my office. And so that's kind of how Thera Link was born, which really is so much about connection because we really believe that connections matter.

C (7:54)

And that's awesome. And I just want to acknowledge you because I love. We love really meeting so many. Like, it's so cool because there's so many therapists in the field that have created, whether it's. They're a billing specialist now because they just found that they want to share. And I love that you've kind of tackled the technology aspect. And just like, kudos to you because technology is not my thing. Kate and I love marketing and Kate takes on a lot of the technology stuff where I take on a lot of the other stuff in the business. So I can only imagine what a beast it was to create that. And you and I kind of were talking a little bit about that, about really the user experience of things. And especially when you're online, whether you're an online therapist or an online entrepreneur, it's a whole different animal because when what you put out there and then you get this feedback back, it's kind of like, oh, no, that's not. No, okay, that didn't work. And it's sometimes not this, like, immediate feedback. And then especially with technology, you gotta be like, oh, I gotta fix this and figure this out. And so I can only imagine how long did it take to create Theralink, like in total.

D (8:55)

So we started building it and took about a year and then kind of did beta because, you know, your first product you put out there and then there's lots of tweaks and then you get a lot of customer feedback of things they would like or could you do this differently? So I would say about a year and a half to two year mark is when we were really fully ready to launch it and had the product that we're like, okay, this is good. Yeah, but that. You're so right, Katie. Just like technology for most therapists and honestly for a lot of people. And it's it. So we'll kind of launch into some of Renee's stuff here. Right? So, yeah, vulnerability. Vulnerability is any place where there's uncertainty, risk and emotional exposure, eg, life. But for a therapist, technology, right, Uncertainty. Like, oh, no, what if I don't know how to use it? What if it doesn't go right while I am using it? What if my client knows more about this than me? Risk. Oh, gosh, what if something doesn't work and the risk then is, oh, enter the possible shame spiral here. Like, because shame is any unwanted identity. So for a therapist, what are some of our, you know, identities we want to be perceived as, oh, she knows everything. Oh, she's totally adequate and competent in everything. So when we get into a space where we might feel a little inadequate, maybe a little incompetent. Okay, Risk for a shame. Trigger to show up. Technology. You know, before I was getting ready for this podcast, we were trying to figure out, you know, the little earphones and couldn't find one pair. And I was like, oh, vulnerability, uncertainty, risk. Emotional exposure. Oh, no, I'm not going to be ready. Fear. And so it's like, ok, I'm going to practice some shame resilience techniques here and mindfulness, just be present. It's going to be fine. We are going to make this work. But the risk. Shame triggers and then emotional exposure. Shame, it is a big emotion. It's the most painful emotion as human beings that we can feel. And so in addition to fear, which can trigger anxiety, potential embarrassment, like, what if something happens and I don't know what to do? So in this arena of technology and therapy, it's an arena. So Brene calls any place where we're going to be vulnerable an arena. So technology and therapy is like this arena. So it's part of the thing. I mean, I'll give some plugs for theralink in here in the sense that all of our staff help desk everything. We're trained. So one of the antidotes for shame is to be able to have somebody listen to us and practice empathy. So all of our staff has been trained on empathy, where we're going to just stay out of judgment. So it's not like, what, you didn't know how to unmute your microphone? It's like, oh, yes. I mean, Carol's our user and we really learned a lot of the struggles from her because she would be like, wait, I don't understand. So a lot of that. So we're going to listen without judgment. Then we're going to try and hear your perspective and what's going on with you. Not our perspective of like, well, this seems easy to me. What's your perspective? We really want to hear and understand and connect with what you're feeling. Oh, this can be totally anxiety provoking. It's okay. We're going to be here and walk you through it. And then the mindfulness piece of like, okay, we see you, we hear you and we'll do whatever it takes to make you feel comfortable in this process. So yeah, lots of vulnerability and lots of potential for shame triggers in this arena of technology and specifically with the online therapy because it's new.

B (13:22)

I just love hearing like going back to your guiding principles. You know, I can tell that you have thought out so much of this and it just seems like we're experiencing Thera link. It's almost like getting a big hug. You guys are like the most supportive.

C (13:36)

That's such a good tagline ever.

A (13:39)

Really?

B (13:39)

Because it's so true what you're talking about. Technology is really anxiety provoking and it's overwhelming for people and could be paralyzing and really intimidating. So to be able to meet people where they're at, therapists where they're at, and support them while they're supporting others and they can really focus on what they love most, making a difference with the clients lives, that is just so beautiful. What were you gonna say?

C (14:00)

I was just recalling a memory that I had using technology in a video counseling session. And I had a video counseling session like earlier in the day. So obviously the platform was working. And I go on for my next session and the video is not working. My client can't hear me. Or I think he could hear me. No, he could see me, but he couldn't hear me. So here I am, like, you know, this is his time. Oh my gosh. I can't get on. I'm like sweating, I'm doing everything. And he's probably like watching me scurry around and I'm like, I'm feeling bad, right? Because it's like this is his time, he's paying for it. And I can't get the technology to work. Like I'm okay, like hanging back, like if the client in troubleshooting that and okay, we'll get on a call. But it feels like there's a lot of Pressure to deliver. Right. So even as we do our best, sometimes that stuff shows up. And Kate and I being the private practice, being an online company, our second to our last webinar. Oh, my goodness.

B (14:55)

Never a dull moment, man. No, it's always something that goes sideways with technology.

C (15:00)

So two things happened. The chat didn't work on our end, so we couldn't see anything. Anyone was typing. And then we couldn't record. But luckily, like, we remembered. Okay, we can record the screen quick time. And thank God Jessica, our marketing extraordinaire, is always by our side, so she could read the chat. And so you do a lot of impromptu, but then especially when you're online, and it's kind of like it's the show, right? Like, you're on Broadway, you might have sprained your ankle, but you still have to dance. And it's just like you're sweating, and then, like, you're trying to, like, deliver the information, but you're, like, still worried about what's going on over there. And it just feels like this big, chaotic mess sometimes. So.

D (15:38)

Yeah, I'm so right there with y'.

B (15:40)

All.

D (15:40)

And really, as you both do the same, I love Brene's work. And so that was part of me getting certified in her work and just revisiting and doing the own work in my own life. So if we think of the two aspects to counter shame, self compassion and empathy. And the beauty of her work is she breaks down self compassion. It's not like, show some self compassion. Like, oh, she says self compassion is self kindness. How do we talk to ourselves? It's common humanity and mindfulness. So in the process, like, you're talking about Katie with, oh, you know, all this was going on in my head, you know, the ability to be like, okay, you know what? It's technology, and it's really this connection with the client that's most important. I'm going to try and be mindful and stay present and engaged. So even if, like, the video goes off and you have the black silhouette, you can still hear the voice. And so Shane would be like, oh, no, it's not working, and what am I going to do? But you're like, I can still hear. This is my focus. I'm connecting with this client, and I'm going to listen. And then the common humanity piece, which we're all agreeing with, is technology, man. It's going to throw things at you. We all go through this, and so it's like, we all struggle. We all try and figure things out. So just, I Think like in the therapy office, where we may be trying to manage some of our own anxiety as we're. As we're working with a client because maybe they're anxious and maybe it's triggering something with us, and we're trying to be present and grounded and not let our stuff get tangled up with their stuff. You know, it's kind of the same, like, we're working on managing our own anxiety in order to be able to really help this person and model them managing their own. And I think it's the same with technology. So one of the things, too, and gosh, Kate, I'm gonna borrow your tagline. Maybe it's like nehralink's like a big hug, you know, that we really. It's so important to us. We founded this company because connections matter, because we really want to extend the help and meet people where they're at and give sometimes people the opportunity to meet with people. They might not be able to otherwise because of distance or money or whatever the thing may be. But the big hug is we'll walk you through. So the trials and the demos and things is really the ability to find out, where do you feel vulnerable in this? Where do you feel really uncertain and feel like, oh, there's risk here for me? We'll walk you through as many times. You know, we really want to be there. Because if you feel comfortable, just like feeling comfortable in a therapy chair with your client, if you feel comfortable, then they're going to feel comfortable, and them just seeing you be able to manage that with yourself helps them learn that. Right? So we're modeling to some extent.

B (18:56)

So we're broadcasting from my house. And you know how I told you my house was. Or my. My car was broken into? I see a police officer who is standing at my door. I'm just waiting for the knock and the dog bark. And the dog bark. Yes. So I'm going to go intervene. So this is funny because I carry forward the show.

C (19:12)

I'm going to rope this right into the whole, like, talking about vulnerability.

B (19:15)

Right.

C (19:16)

So before we hit record, we were kind of sharing with Carol that we've moved. And for those of you who've been listening to us for a long time, or if you go back to, I don't know, episodes one through maybe 50, you'll see that our podcast was so structured because we felt like we had to be perfect, right. And have to be like, okay, we've got to make sure we hit on all these points because we want to make sure we deliver and People are getting value. And then we did. I did a podcast with John Clark. So I was on his podcast, and I just remember he got on and we were talking before, and he just, like, totally brought in what we were talking about, like, the dog and all this other stuff going on, and it was just like, oh, okay, this is cool. You know, and just being vulnerable and speaking about therapy. It's funny as you were talking about, like, what you guys do at Thera Link and, you know, being empathic, staying out of judgment. I show Brene's little quick video about empathy versus sympathy to all my couples. And one of the things that I do with all my couples is I let them know, like, hey, I'm a couples counselor, but I'm also human. I get into fights with my spouse. Sometimes it doesn't go well. But at the same time, I've learned these really cool tools that has created a better relationship overall. Because I think a lot of times when we're talking about whether it's okay, there's their link and there's this platform or there's this therapist who's this, and our clients perceive us this way, Right. It's not like we're trying to create it. It's the perception, right? Like, oh, they know how to be a great person, mother, spouse. You know what I mean? And so I just really love how you're talking and you just set the stage. It's like, we're here to help you. You know what I mean? And no matter what, we're here to help you. So let us know. And how can we be of service to you?

D (20:50)

Yeah, share with us.

C (20:51)

I know you had mentioned about, like, shame triggers. Like, how do you identify the shame triggers and how does that relate especially to technology?

D (20:59)

Yeah. So shame triggers. One of the way we ways we can identify is what are our unwanted identities? You know, So I kind of shared that a lot of times as therapists, unwanted identities is that we don't have all the answers, you know, that somehow we're inadequate and incompetent. And maybe one of the things is the wanted identity was like, oh, maybe we would think, oh, it'll be great if they think I'm perfect. Not possible. You know, but so I think that anytime we enter into a place where we have unwanted identities, and again, that's that piece around technology may be that it's like, I don't know everything, and somehow this is going to make me look inadequate. Maybe my client knows way more about technology, and I'm fumbling around and Maybe I'm starting to think, go down this shame spiral, they must think I'm so dumb. Or they must think that she doesn't get it and how could she be my therapist? I'm going down this shame spiral, right? And then the problem when we go down the shame spiral, or maybe it's not a problem, maybe it's the place of vulnerability, is we're likely to come out with a shield. And so Brene speaks to three different shields that we may come out with when we're in shame. One is to move against, one is to move toward, and one is to move away. So maybe the move against we're used to. We're trained. We're okay with this. We practice empathy. Maybe the move against is after the session, call the help desk or get on intercom and say, this doesn't work. Y' all are terrible. You know, whatever. Because they're in shame. And so very early on with the team we talked about, look, this is a shame trigger for many people. We may get the move against S.H.I.E.L.D. coming at us. It's okay. We're going to just be there. We're going to listen, we're going to practice empathy. So that may be a move against. That we might come out with as a therapist, a move toward might be maybe the sound cut out for five minutes. Or maybe not the sound. Maybe the video cut out for five minutes and you got the black screen. You may do the move toward the people pleasing shield, which is, I'm so sorry. That was so terrible. I'll give you this session for free, you know, which is like, okay, I feel so bad. I'm going to people, please, so that you'll still like me and want to work with me. And the reality is, I mean, when I Skype back in the day and I didn't have any personal connection to it, okay, it pixelated. It cut out. We would reconnect. I didn't think anything of it because it wasn't my product. You know? Then when Theralink started, it's like, oh, no. Oh, no, this is bad. And then I was like, whoo. Practice shame resilience. This is an arena. It's not going to go perfect. You're going to learn, you're going to grow, you're going to build. But we might come out with that people pleasing. We might come out with the move away and say, I can't do online sessions. I've just got to quit this. But then we lose the possibility to really be able to be with clients where they Are. And it doesn't have to be perfect. I actually see, I agree with you, Katie. They actually really appreciate some of the vulnerability. People are going to connect more with us as therapists if we can just say, look, hey, I get an argument sometimes too. Sometimes they don't go, well, it's okay. That's relatable. Instead of like, oh gosh, I've got to learn to be like her. She's so perfect. She has everything down that's kind of don't connect to that. So those are some of the three shields that you might come out with when you get in shame of those unwanted identities.

B (24:54)

It's so interesting to hear about those. And it reminds me a lot of Gottman's.

C (24:57)

I was thinking that too.

B (24:59)

The bitch connection of turning towards, turning away and turning against. And you know, we talk about that stuff in our couples therapy a lot. But it's so interesting to hear about it in this context. And I just, I feel like I could talk to you about this stuff for like hours. And I'm sure that we could.

C (25:15)

Yeah, I guess my like final question would be like, what is your favorite way or mantra or saying, how do you practice self compassion? Like what do you say to yourself?

D (25:25)

Or do you know? Well, yeah, I think this is where some of the shame resilience comes in. So one of my things is just fall down, treat yourself kindly and get back up again. It's okay. You don't have to be perfect. Your values are connection and meeting them where they are at. It's really not about me and how well I did or didn't do. My values really guide the way with that. So. Yeah. And Brene does definitely give Gottman credit for that, by the way. Yeah. Once she gets the theory and gets those down, then she dives into the liter, says, did somebody already nail this? And she absolutely gives John Gottman the credit for those three shields.

B (26:10)

That is really cool.

C (26:11)

It's nice. It's interesting. And I think you and I talked about this and shared this story and so it is different being face to face with someone. It feels easier to be able to handle things. But being online and not having that relationship, a lot of times with people or people will buy a product and they've had a relationship with us, it's kind of like one sided because we don't really know them. And I remember the very first time that we had gotten like a negative comment about our paperwork and it threw me into this hour and a half tailspin. Like, you know, and of course, like the my big thing is not good enough, you know, so the not good enough came up, and then I saw that I wanted to blame the person. It was just like this craziness. And then I remember just dropping into gratitude and just saying, wow, this person just showed us a way that we can improve. And, wow, I'm grateful for that. And then it was like, okay, cool. And then we just kind of took actions and continue to make our products better, to really serve, you know, Startup Nation superheroes, because that's really what's most important.

B (27:07)

And coming back to values, because it is so important to be clear about your brand values as a company. Our three brand values are collaboration, quality, and passion. And so quality. Making sure that we're providing the highest quality experience for people with our products and services. And if there's something that we can improve upon to make it better in some way, that is something that's super important to us.

C (27:29)

Yeah. And so I'm sure just like you have a team. Having my business partner is amazing, too, because right when I'm in a place, you can kind of say, hey, Katie, it's okay. It's just not a tribe. It's okay. It's okay. I'm like, oh, okay, right?

B (27:42)

Yep. Not everybody's our tribe, and that's okay. And we're not everybody's tribe.

D (27:46)

Absolutely. Yeah. And that. That is that piece of empathy. Right. Having the people who you trust to hear your story. And that's one of the ways, too, that we practice shame resilience is we speak it again for the. To those who've earned the right to hear your story. It's your safe people, your marble jar, your tribe. Yeah.

B (28:05)

What do you want to make sure that our listeners take away from this topic today?

D (28:10)

I think it would just be, don't be afraid to enter the arena. You know, again, the arena is the vulnerability. And this is just a tool that you can use to be there with your client and meet them where they are in a way that you might not be able to otherwise. And it's okay if it. In fact, it's probably not going to go perfectly because whatever does. And so just have the courage to show up and be seen and then have the places to talk through.

C (28:43)

Awesome. Carol, I wanted to thank you for being on the podcast today, and I love how you were open to kind of taking this spin and talking about Brene and technology and really combining that. And you did a fantastic job. So we really appreciate it. And I know that you guys have a gift, so you are offering thera link 20% off your first year, which is amazing in a 15 day free trial. So we will put that, the link to that on our show notes page so people can use that. And I know that. And one of the things obviously Kate and I love marketing and what really stands out as a USP so unique selling proposition is really like what you've displayed in this podcast and what you talked about. So if you are afraid of technology or you're kind of wanting to bridge that gap, their link just sounds like a perfect place to really just feel supported. You know, maybe, I don't know, maybe you don't open a computer often, right. And you're thinking, but I'd love to do online, I would definitely recommend for you to check out their link.

B (29:37)

I've used several different platforms for online counseling and I'm not in love with any of them. And the way that you've talked about things and just the guiding points, your principles and just the big hug, it makes me want to come straight over to their link. So I'm definitely checking it out.

D (29:51)

I some I somehow we'll be there for you.

C (29:54)

Yeah, exactly. So Carol, thank you for joining us today. Startup Nation Superheroes. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and I feel like it was like this kind of like a little bit therapeutic, a little bit technology based, a little bit podcasty. So hopefully maybe you took away some stuff to even enhance yourself, enhance your practice. I know I did, which was awesome. So next week you are going to want to check out our podcast because Kate and I are going to be talking about our passion which is marketing and sharing with you. Well, I am going to say the upcoming marketing course but maybe if it's October already it won't be upcoming. It'll already here. So that's exciting too. So we're going to be giving you some highlights into what that will look like and how it can help you.

B (30:33)

We're going to pull back the curtain and give you a sneak.

C (30:35)

Pull back the curtain.

B (30:36)

Yes. So we're excited about that.

C (30:38)

Yes. And also too, if you haven't joined us yet, hang out with us in Facebook and the amazing community there. So just look for the Private Practice Startup on Facebook and ask to join and we'll see you there. So everybody have an amazing and inspired day. Thank you so much for allowing us to inspire you from startup to mastery. Take care Startup Nation.

B (30:55)

See you next time.

A (31:03)

Thanks for joining us on the Private Practice Startup. Visit the private practices startup.com for awesome resources. Free trainings, Attorney approved private practice paperwork and so much more.

D (31:22)

Sam.