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Private Practice Startup Podcast
Episode 105: The Legal Documents you NEED when Starting an Online Coaching Business
00:29:40
Christy Westerfeld
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- [00:03]
Narrator
Welcome to the Private practice Startup, where we inspire you from startup to mastery. We chat with entrepreneurs, experts in the mental health and business arenas, and successful private practitioners to give you the tools needed to make your dream practice a reality. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings.
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Katie Lemieux
And so much more.
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Narrator
Here are your hosts, Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
Hey, Startup Nation. How are you guys doing today? Welcome back to another episode, actually episode 105. Wow.
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Katie Lemieux
How is that happening? Where is the time going?
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Dr. Kate Campbell
We started six six sixteen on podcasting and today is today seven eleven, another fun date, seven eleven, 2018. And we're actually recording, so. Hey, everybody. I am Katie Lemieux, hanging out with my sidekick, co host, BP extraordinaire.
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Katie Lemieux
What's up, guys?
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Dr. Kate Campbell
It's Kate Campbell and we're excited about today's podcast episode with attorney Christy Westerfield. And she's going to be talking about the legal documents you need when you're starting an online business or I'm going to say, or. Because she and I had a really great conversation if you're a therapist and looking to do coaching, so we can kind of weave those two things in. So this is going to be really great and informative topic. And I have to say, Christy, I was able to hang out with her and she's hanging out with her online, of course, because she's all the way on the west coast. She's super cool. So if you have that worry like, oh, I don't know about attorneys. They just, you know, they want to give you the legal advice and charge you whatever. No, she's totally cool. She's relaxed, laid back. So you'll get to meet her on the podcast. But before we do that, if you are brand new to us and this is the first time you are listening to us, well, welcome. We hope you're enjoying it already. You are our vip. We are giving you, I keep saying today, the virtual hug. That's based off another podcast that we had had earlier about two weeks ago. So we're giving you a virtual hug and welcome you into welcoming you into the Startup Nation super fam. I think the caffeine, the espresso from earlier, I think now I'm just tripping over my words. So we're welcoming you into our Startup Nation superhero family. That's what I wanted to say. Welcome to the family. Welcome to the family. And we have a special gift for you because we like to give our new family members special gifts. And so head over to private practicestartup.com head over to the Resources tab and grab a copy of your A to Z cheat sheet or the essentials for building and growing your dream practice. And while you're doing that and you're online anyways, just hop on over to Facebook and find us there and join our community. Over 4,000 people now, and I'm sure by the time you join, it'll probably be 5,000 and keep on growing. So we pop in and out of there, but the community is excellent and supportive, really helping you guys build and grow your dream practice. So last week on the podcast, we had Cindy Nicholson talking about empowering entrepreneurs to turn their expertise into a profitable online course. And how serendipitous is that? We have Christy's podcast right next to Cindy's talking about online. So Christy's going to take care of your legal rights and needs, and Cindy's going to really talk about how to turn that online practice, online course into a profitable one.
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Katie Lemieux
Yes.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
So before we do all that, though.
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Katie Lemieux
We'Ll take a quick break from our sponsors. And so today's sponsor, we have therapynotes. When it comes to keeping your practice organized, you definitely want to have software that's not only simple, but the best. TherapyNotes, their platform actually allows you to manage notes, claims, scheduling, and more. Plus they offer amazing unlimited phone and email support. So when you have a question, they're always there to help. And when you head over to our website, you'll be able to see the show Notes episode. For this episode, which is 105, and you'll be able to get two months free from TherapyNotes today, just use the promo code PPS, as in private practice startup, and you'll be able to experience your free trial with them. And if you want to get a little bit more of a taste of therapynotes, you can actually listen to our episode 54 with Brad Pleiner where he does a deep dive into their platform and talking about EMRs, EHRs, and it was super, super helpful. So we highly recommend them. So make sure you check that out.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
So welcome officially. Christy, how are you today?
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Christy Westerfield
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm great. I'm thrilled to be here with you guys. I love your podcast and I'm excited to chat legal with you.
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Katie Lemieux
Yes, we're so excited to have you here. And where are you here from? You're on the west coast, but where?
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah, I'm in Orange County, Southern California, kind of by if you know, Mission Viejo or Laguna Beach.
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Katie Lemieux
Cool. Sounds like a Beautiful area to be from.
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah, yeah. Kind of in between Disneyland and San Diego.
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Katie Lemieux
Awesome.
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Christy Westerfield
Everybody with kids.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
You got to know who you're speaking to. So I really like you. Do you just solely work with women, or do you work with women and men?
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Christy Westerfield
I don't not. I don't refuse to work with men. I have worked with men, but just kind of in our specific line of work and in the field that I'm in, it is primarily women that I get to work with, which I love. I think the online space, the online coaching space, there's a lot of women, a lot of female entrepreneurs, and a lot of kind of growth in that area. And so it's really fun for me to get to help other women, you know, build online businesses, which is exactly what I did a few years ago. So it's fun to be a part of helping someone else achieve that goal.
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Katie Lemieux
Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to focus on this.
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah. So I started way back when, in my old life, which I was doing a more traditional route. I was working at a law firm. Much more, you know, traditional. When you think of a young attorney, that's what I was doing. Everything was great. I loved the firm I worked for. I loved my clients. But I just kind of had that realization that I feel like a lot of us do, where I was like, okay, is this what I'm doing for the next 30 plus years? Like, this can't be. Like, I want to be doing something more. Kind of. Around that time, my husband and I were thinking about starting a family. My hours at work were not really conducive to that, and I really wanted to be able to have a flexible schedule, to be home or, you know, just have more time. So I kind of started thinking about, okay, what would that look like? Around that time, I also started to do virtual health coaching just as a total side project. I love health and fitness and was doing a lot of that just for fun. I was helping people with meal plans and health and wellness coaching on the side. And as I got more and more into the virtual health coaching space, people started, you know, realizing I was an attorney and kept asking me for help with contracts or with their legal documents. Something would come up with a client. And so I kind of just fell into it. I started helping other coaches, and then I got so busy with that that it kind of. It probably took a lot longer than it should have, but it just finally clicked, like, oh, I think I could be doing this as my job. Like, I think this could work. So Quit my job. I don't do virtual health coaching anymore. Just because I've been, from the beginning, was booked with legal stuff, which is actually, I'm finding I love that even more. So it's. It's kind of been a perfect blend of being able to mix, you know, helping other women work towards their goals with my legal knowledge. And it's been. It's been a blast.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
You know, as you talk like, I've kind of realized my own journey.
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Katie Lemieux
Right.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
I actually love the online world because I like to actually be home. I like working on my computer and, like, diving and just focusing in totally in my workout clothes. Okay, let's get real clear. And then, you know, I enjoy doing the online coaching and getting up and then Kate and I meet, and it's just. It is a different lifestyle. I enjoy my.
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Katie Lemieux
It is.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
I enjoy my clients. I love doing my work. But like, to actually do that, like getting dressed to get into the office, to sit in the chair. I see you waving your finger over there. It's. I don't know, I just love the freedom so much and the freedom, ability.
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Katie Lemieux
To work whenever, wherever you want from your computer. All you need is the Internet. It's the coolest thing.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
I call it wifi.
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Christy Westerfield
I know computer and wifi got a little. I know my son's napping right now, so.
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Katie Lemieux
Baby monitor.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
Oh, that's timing.
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Christy Westerfield
He turned one on Sunday. I'm dying. Yeah. So I'm totally the nap time hustler. Like, I work during his naps. And that's it.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
That's such a fun, creative work. And you're also. You host a Q and a about legal stuff called the Legal Lounge. Tell us about that.
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah, so I kind of. I was doing legal trainings here, and there was hosting a lot of webinars. I host a free private Facebook group called the Legal Entrepreneur. And just. I found that people kept having really good questions that it was really hard for me to. I mean, I'm an attorney. I'm wordy. So I was like writing these huge answers in the Facebook group, trying to answer their questions, and then it would go back and forth. I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna jump on a live and answer this question with a video because it's so much easier. And I was doing that often enough that I thought, what if I just did this every week and we just had, you know, not unlike podcasting, you know, just had a different topic every week. People can jump on, ask their questions. We can have an actual conversation about it as Opposed to people just saying, hey, you know, I've heard this thing about, you know, GDPR or I've heard about, you know, privacy policies. I don't get it. That's kind of a loaded question for me.
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Katie Lemieux
So it's.
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Christy Westerfield
It's so much easier to just jump on and spend 15 or 20 minutes doing a live training as it. As opposed to trying to, like, type it out in Facebook. So, yeah, I started that probably about six months ago. Just a weekly show, I guess. And that's been really fun. It's given me a chance to, you know, people submit topics that they want to know about. So it's given me a chance to kind of broaden my horizons. I'm to, like, research whatever the issue is to make sure I know what I'm talking about. That's been fun. It's kind of a way to keep me on my toes and keep kind of talking about legal and online space because it's really a constantly changing and, you know, environment where it's becoming more and more important and people are getting away with less and less in terms of legal compliance.
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Katie Lemieux
I love the name. The Legal Lounge. That is so catchy. What a great concept. Hustler. Yep.
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Christy Westerfield
Yes. Yeah, I did not create Nap Time Hustler, so. Oh, okay. Trademark to whoever created that, but Legal Lounge, right?
- [10:38]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Doing the legal obligation. Yes.
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Christy Westerfield
Disclaimer. I do not own the Nap Time Hustler. The Legal Lounge. I probably do.
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Katie Lemieux
Nice.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
Nice.
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Katie Lemieux
So what are some of the most important things that clinicians would need to know in starting an online business with the legal side of stuff?
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah. So you mean specific to clinicians, or should we talk online business in general? Let's just dive in.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
There you go. Let's just dive in.
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Christy Westerfield
So the online space is. Is kind of a specific niche. Right. When we're talking about running an online or a virtual practice, typically a coaching practice, there's a few things we need to have in place. And specifically, when you're a clinician and you're going to kind of either transition into coaching or if you want to also offer coaching, some people decide to switch over altogether, Some people want to add it on as an additional service. A couple things. The most important thing I want to mention when you are a clinician moving into coaching is it's got to be something separate from your private practice. So best practices. I recommend having a separate business entity and a separate website. The reason being is really the overarching issue that some of the state boards worry about is customers or clients or patients getting Confused and thinking that coaching is a substitute for therapy or counseling. That's kind of the main red flag for why sometimes it's a little bit of a sticky issue is we really want to make sure that it's not something that's looked at as an either or, where people, you know, if they're coming to you in need of counseling or therapy and they want to be your patient, we don't want them to come onto your website and, you know, stumble into the coaching section and think, oh, well, I can just take her online course instead. Instead, when it's someone who is in need of in person therapy or counseling, that's kind of the main issue. And you guys know better than me that the differences are what you look for, people who are in need of therapy, and how you go about treating, diagnosing and all of that in your private practice. So that's really the key. Really the key piece is the separation in order to prevent confusion and people thinking that the services or programs are. You can substitute one for the other. It's a different service. So typically when you're looking to coach someone, those people are objectively, and I'm using air quotes here for everyone on the podcast, like healthy individuals who are looking for more assistance, whether that's with goal setting or really taking things to the next level. But they're objectively in a good place, they're healthy, they may need assistance somewhere, but it's not. There's no medical worry. If somebody is in need of therapy or more deeper treatment, that's where we push them into the therapy path. And their needs are so different. So that's really where we want to make sure we're providing them the right treatment versus coaching. So that's, that's a huge piece. And then in general, when we're talking about, you know, how do we start a virtual coaching practice, like I said, we want to do our separate business entity and a separate website. If you're really wanting to keep it, you know, one website, I've had people do that. It's just, you have to make it very, very clear that it's a separate option. I mean, some people have a link on their therapy page to the coaching, but then it takes them to the other page. So there's ways that you can kind of advertise both. You don't have to hide one from the other, but it's got to be separate enough that people understand it's a different service. Do you want to jump in?
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Katie Lemieux
Yeah, I was just going to say, I Mean, this is so useful to hear about because I know I see often therapists offering coaching and not really differentiating and not being very clear about what coaching is for and what therapy is for. And so many people aren't really clear about the laws that you know about. You must be licensed in the state where the clients reside. And so they're like, oh, well, coaching. I can offer therapy through coaching in different states.
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Christy Westerfield
And it's.
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Katie Lemieux
Yeah, it just makes you go, ah. And I know you've looked recently at, you know, adding more coaching into your practice. So I'm curious what you guys think about the differences between therapy and coach coaching. How do you differentiate the two? Because coaching can be therapeutic, and therapeutic could have coaching aspects.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
There's.
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Katie Lemieux
I'm sure it's kind of a gray area.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
Yeah. And I guess to kind of like expand on what you're going to answer is probably. I would assume then there'd be like some detailed description of both for the client for them to understand, like, the differences. I just, like, hit the table. And that was a really weird.
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Christy Westerfield
Sounded like a guitar note or something, right? It was a guitar note.
- [15:51]
Dr. Kate Campbell
My elbow is very musical today.
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Katie Lemieux
Podcast. Boom. Oh, probably mic that we have that's like, hooked up under the table.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
I think that's what you. And we're always so cautious, too. Yeah, love that.
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Christy Westerfield
That was awesome. So, anyway. Yes.
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Katie Lemieux
Question. To have the guitar sound, like, accentuating it.
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Christy Westerfield
I know, it's like a drum roll. Build up my answer. Yeah. So again, the differences in between therapy and coaching, it's going to be a little bit different. You know, everybody has very specific specializations. You know, I've worked with a lot of different counselors and therapists who work in very specialized areas. They work with very specific types of people through certain issues or, you know, wherever they are in their life and coaching. What I find is that many therapists offer coaching in similar spaces, so they stick with their expertise. As far as how to make that clear, it's all about the disclaimer. So when you're talking about writing something, you know, to make sure people understand the difference, you need to have a disclaimer in multiple places. So, number one, it has to be on your website. And this goes. There's a couple of different website documents that you need. They all go on the footer. In the footer of your website. The privacy policy, which we can talk about the disclaimer and then your website terms and conditions. But the disclaimer is extremely important for you guys as therapists and for everybody Listening, because again, that's where we're going to remind people who are coming to our website. And there's different levels of disclaimers we'll get into, but this one is on our website. So this is affecting not our customers yet, not our clients yet, but just people who are on our site. So our website traffic, they're looking around, maybe they're reading blogs, they're reading about our services and programs and products. The disclaimer there is going to offer them the reminder, number one on your coaching website that everything there is not meant as therapy. Even though you are a licensed therapist, you are not providing any therapy services. It's not a substitute for therapy. All of those things that goes on your coaching website. And then when people take the next step and sign up to work with you as a coach, so they're your client and you're their coach, that's where we need the client agreement that's specific to therapists because that's going to have that additional level of disclaimer again reminding them that the package or program they're buying is not therapy, does not include therapy, is not a substitute for therapy. You also want kind of the additional disclaimer in there that you want to make sure they're clearing anything with their, you know, their private physician or their therapist, whatever the medical equivalent is. Some people coach around health and wellness, so you may need to talk to a doctor. Some people are coaching around relationships. You may need to consult if they're working with a therapist in their own area. There's a lot of different ways that this happens. But what I want you to take from this from a legal perspective is you need the initial disclaimer on your website. That's for your website traffic. Then once people take that next step and they sign up to work with you, the client agreement there needs an additional disclaimer that's going to say something similar. But you again, want them to know that the program does not include therapy. And that's again, to prevent a lot of things, but most importantly that misunderstanding, to make sure if that person is in need of therapy, that they're not thinking, oh, cool, I'll just sign up with Kate and I'll be her. She's going to be my coach and I don't have to worry about therapy. Like if she's in need of therapy or he. We need to make sure that they understand they're not going to get therapy by, you know, purchasing your coaching package.
- [19:46]
Dr. Kate Campbell
So I had a question and then all of a sudden escaped Me for a second? Um, no, I'm like, I was holding onto it, waiting for the moment.
- [19:53]
Christy Westerfield
Oh. Just jump in. If you guys have questions, please interrupt.
- [19:55]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Yeah, man, go ahead.
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Christy Westerfield
Where we talk, we were talking about disclaimers, different levels, websites. Oh.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
So one of the things is because we are therapists, so how then do we communicate about, like, abuse? Right. So if we're going to be the coach, you know, what about abuse? Like, we're legally mandated to report that. But if we're being the coach, how do you. How do you.
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Christy Westerfield
Yeah, so. So the way that I understand that and I've been communicating with various state boards to kind of, you know, learn about licensing requirements versus legal requirements. The way that I understand that is you still have to abide by your confidential confidentiality and reporting obligations, even if you're coaching. So, you know, with respect to abuse, I would think you still need to take action on it as you would, you know, being a therapist. Yeah.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
So I guess this is kind of what I'm saying is like, we're letting them know that this is not therapy.
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Christy Westerfield
If we're doing coaching.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
But at the same time, because I am a therapist, am mandated by these laws. And so for those of you listening, thinking, maybe I want to move towards the coaching route or you're already there, if you are. Now this, I'm going to use, like a therapy term. Right. Like practicing across state lines. Right. Not as a therapist, as a coach is you have to assure that you know who to call and who to report abuse to. And I would still recommend having some type of emergency contact just as a safeguard. Right. Because you never know what could happen and it's just essential to do that. So I always look at lowering risk and, you know.
- [21:27]
Christy Westerfield
Absolutely.
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Dr. Kate Campbell
And so that's probably one thing that I would definitely add to all of that.
- [21:32]
Christy Westerfield
Yeah. Another thing, too, that's important to remember. We kind of touched on this in the beginning, but it's also frowned upon to provide coaching and therapy to the same person. So we talked about making sure your coaching doesn't include therapy. Making sure that's clear. But you can't blur those lines between therapy and coaching. So kind of like you're saying, you know, if you have duties to report things or things, you know, abiding by your license, it's also a good idea if somebody signs up with you as a coach and you start working with them and you're, you know, because you're. You're trained as a therapist or counselor.
- [22:10]
Katie Lemieux
You're.
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Christy Westerfield
If you see that they are in need of some therapy, you're only their coach. It's going to be tempting to start treating them or just start kind of putting on your therapy hat and using those tools. But it's important to not do that. And it's important to remind them that you know, this is coaching and then you can I personally include it. I have templates for all these documents and I included in my client agreement that if there is a situation where you're coaching with somebody and you realize that, you know, based on your expertise, you think that they are actually better suited for therapy, that you can actually talk to them and if you can't refer them to someone in their area specifically, that you at least point them in the right direction. And then whether or not you want to stop working with them as a coach, be up to you. But it's just you kind of also have this duty to watch for people who are in need of therapy. And if someone who is a coaching client, if you're seeing signs that they're in need of additional treatment, it would be a good idea and I think a responsibility to then make sure that you're referring them to the appropriate specialists and avoid the temptation to just start using, you know, therapy practices and start kind of acting as their therapist as well. Because like you said, we need to avoid that. Practicing across state lines. Yeah.
- [23:32]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Cool. So informative. I know you and I have already talked a lot about this stuff, but I'm still very captivated by the information.
- [23:40]
Christy Westerfield
It's really interesting. And then as an additional side note, always make sure to everybody listening, talking about reducing risk. It's always a good idea to contact your state board if you're going to start a coaching business and just kind of clear things with them. I think that can make people feel a lot better. I know a lot of people who are therapists that start coaching businesses. Kind of feel like, can I do this? Am I breaking any rules? So as long as you follow all these guidelines, you should be all set. But for kind of additional peace of mind, I always recommend just email them, call them, just, you know, get the okay, let them know you're doing. If there's any state specific rules or guidelines, it's important to know them. But I always feel better once like some governing body has said, oh yeah, what you're doing is fine. Sure.
- [24:30]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Can I have that in writing?
- [24:32]
Christy Westerfield
Right, yeah, email. Email them. Yeah, just send them an email, say, this is what I'm doing. Here's all the precautions I'm taking. Here's all the Rules that I'm following, you know, I know xyz. Everything that we've talked about today and the answer, you know, should be, great, good luck. But just kind of a, you know, additional peace of mind for sure.
- [24:51]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Very good. So, Christy, what do you hope that Startup Nation takes away from your message today?
- [24:57]
Christy Westerfield
Oh, so much I really like. My overall goal in life now is really to help people understand that running an online business, number one, there are legal precautions and legal steps that you need to take. This is important stuff. Very, very important stuff. But that it doesn't have to be scary, overwhelming, boring, expensive. A lot of people stick their head in the sand about it and think, like, I'm not going to think about that. I don't have to worry about that. I'll figure it out when I'm a bigger business. A lot of people think they can be under the radar and it's just, it's not true. There is no threshold. There is no radar. Like you can't be under it there. It's just as soon as you, you know, put your website, you know, publish it, you're already breaking laws if you don't have the certain documents in place. So I think that really, the main things I want people to take away from this is that it's important, but that it's absolutely manageable and doable. It doesn't have to be a scary, tricky thing. Listen to this podcast, ask any questions, and then make sure you're getting the right documents in place.
- [26:07]
Katie Lemieux
Right.
- [26:07]
Dr. Kate Campbell
And even reach out to you. I know you do consultations and you also have the paperwork as well, so the coaching, online paperwork. So for private practitioners that are doing therapy, we have the paperwork for you and then Christy has the paperwork for coaching and our online businesses as well. So you definitely want to check that out and we'll include all of that in the show notes. And actually, you have a legal roadmap to answer all your what legal documents do I need Checklist. So that will also be on our show notes page, so you guys can grab a copy of that. So, Chrissy, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for your patience while we were working out some kinks in our workday today. And I'm glad that your son, right, stayed sleeping for our podcast. I saw you kind of check there every once in a while, so we appreciate having you on today. And I know this was invaluable for me and I'm sure so many startup nations are superheroes have really found this helpful as well.
- [27:02]
Katie Lemieux
Yeah, exactly. I just had Someone emailing me yesterday about the, you know, wanting answers and I am going to forward her your information so she'll be reaching you. Yeah, it's wonderful to have a lot of resources because it is such a great area and we just want to make sure that as therapists we're protecting ourselves and as coaches too. And if you're doing both and you got to really, really protect yourself because it's, you know.
- [27:25]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Yeah. One of my interns actually just went through like, I don't know if it's a certification to become an interventionist. And I, after you and I spoke, I was like, oh, I said you probably need to have your therapy thing and then your intervention thing and make sure that they don't crisscross. And she was like, oh, yeah, that's really good idea. I was like, welcome. From Christy. Yes.
- [27:45]
Christy Westerfield
Keep it, always keep it separate. And I think it's like you said, when you have your private practice, you know you've got the documents for that. When you've got your coaching business, I offer a bundle of all the documents. It's kind of a one stop shop. So it's everything you need that's specifically drafted for this exact line of work. People who are therapists and they're working as coaches. So we're making it easier for everybody.
- [28:09]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us. And we're going to include, like I said, that stuff on our show notes page. And for those of you who are looking for private practice paperwork that is customizable and attorney approved, we got you covered there. We're going to include that in our show notes page. You can actually go onto the page. We offer packages a la carte items and we do offer our release of information for only $5 with a free HIPAA form so you can test drive and try things out if you guys are interested. So make sure you grab your copy of that. So Startup Nation, we're gonna see you next time and actually we don't have. Well, we're just gonna see you next time. How about that? So hopefully you guys see you on.
- [28:46]
Katie Lemieux
Your toes this time.
- [28:46]
Dr. Kate Campbell
Yes, we are. So hope you guys have an insight inspire day. And as always, thank you for allowing us to inspire you from startup to mastery. Take care.
- [28:54]
Katie Lemieux
See you next time.
- [29:02]
Narrator
Thanks for joining us on the private Practice Startup. Visit the private practices startup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.
- [29:15]
Katie Lemieux
Sam.