Episode 114: How Do You Choose an Amazing Business Partner?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Private Practice Startup Podcast

Episode 114: How Do You Choose an Amazing Business Partner?
Hosts: Dr. Kate Campbell & Katie Lemieux
Guest/Guest-Host: Amy Lasseter
Date: December 1, 2018

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode explores the essential topic of how to choose and maintain a great business partnership, specifically in the mental health space. Flipping the script, guest Amy Lasseter interviews hosts Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux about their own partnership, reflecting candidly on their journey, the challenges, the systems they built, and advice for therapists considering collaboration. The discussion offers honest insights, vulnerable stories, and practical strategies, all delivered in the show’s signature warm and humorous tone.

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1. How Kate & Katie Met and Formed Their Partnership

[07:27 – 10:11]

• Origins: Katie and Kate met during licensure supervision in 2006 and continued in an AAMFT-approved supervision program.

  • They volunteered to resurrect their local Broward association for Marriage and Family Therapy chapter, discovering shared work ethic and teamwork.
  • “We realized how well we worked together as a team.” (Kate, 09:00)

• Initial Business Collaboration:

  • Started teaching the Florida Qualified Supervisor training after identifying a need for dynamic presenters.
  • Their side hustle shifted to a formal business as they saw growing opportunities and needs among therapists.

• Refocusing:

  • Their passion transitioned into helping private practitioners with branding and marketing—common weak spots for therapists.
  • “Clinicians really struggle the most with branding themselves and marketing their private practice. So that’s really become our niche.” (Kate, 09:44)

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2. Lessons Learned About Themselves and Each Other

[11:29 – 14:34]

• Work Styles: Both hosts found themselves to be “doers”—highly motivated and hands-on, sometimes at the expense of big-picture thinking.

  • They intentionally check in and pull back to reassess priorities.
  • “We just jump right in and do things and we’ll just like tackle tasks and not really pick our heads up to look at the bigger vision.” (Kate, 11:41)
  • “[Partnership] is a constant evolution, stepping into things, looking at things.” (Katie, 12:44)

• Division of Labor:

  • Natural talents guide their roles: Kate does more tech work, Katie handles finances.
  • Effective, transparent communication is foundational, with regular updates to avoid surprises.

• Marriage Analogy:

  • “A business partner is a marriage, right? So we’re married. We are married. And we legally too, and we communicate really well, which is great. That’s definitely a strength of ours.” (Kate, 14:00)

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3. Giving Feedback & Navigating Partnership Dynamics

[15:03 – 16:23]

• Open, direct feedback is accepted and expected—professionalism came first, friendship followed over time.
• They evaluate new opportunities critically, learning to say no and reassess as needed.
• “We both commit to it… If along the road, we’re like, ‘Damn, why do we do this?’ we’re like, okay, this is another learning lesson.” (Katie, 15:09)

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4. Division of Labor & Evolution of Roles

[16:54 – 19:36]

• Natural evolution into their respected roles, with collaboration on major decisions.
• Systemization:
  • Outsourcing and creating systems reduces burnout, especially as their business has grown.
  • “I’m not building another website… We’ve outsourced that… Now, we can outsource and that’s really nice.” (Kate, 17:47)
  • “Our whole podcast system is like 35 plus steps… Now we just show up.” (Kate, 18:52)

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5. Building & Prioritizing Systems

[19:36 – 22:39]

• Systems are critical to avoid decision fatigue and ensure business runs smoothly.
• Prioritize systemization for tasks that don’t require direct professional oversight (e.g., tech, marketing, admin).
• Leverage tech and create video walk-throughs so others can replicate and maintain processes.
• “When you can systemize and outsource things that an expert or professional doesn’t have to do, that's what you need to be doing.” (Katie, 21:00)

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6. Navigating Finances Together

[23:52 – 29:31]

• Initial Phase: Easier since the business was a modest side hustle.

• Growth & Strategy: Leaned into the Profit First model for clarity and stability.

  • Katie naturally took on finances due to interest and skill, Kate (dyslexic and numbers-averse) was happy to delegate.

• Conflict & Vulnerability:

  • They recall their most significant conflict—a moment of anxiety and miscommunication about the business’s future direction.
  • “I left that meeting with, like, a ton of anxiety… She’s gonna jump ship on me.” (Kate, 26:58)
  • Kate shares she even cried about it at a restaurant, revealing deep investment in their partnership.
  • The challenge ultimately led to a major and positive business pivot, focusing on their shared passion and strengths.

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7. Handling Emotional Realities & Personal Life Challenges

[29:43 – 36:17]

• Open communication about personal crises is essential—mutual respect for boundaries when one needs space or extra support.

  • “There’s a high level of support and checking in… we just know that it ebbs and flows.” (Katie, 31:16)
  • “There have been times where I haven’t been able to [be present] for short windows. And she’s just like, I got it. Do your thing. Take care of you.” (Kate, 33:30)

• Culture of Appreciation:

  • Praise, affirmation, and even small surprise gifts keep their “business marriage” healthy.
  • “One thing I’ve learned from Kate… he talks about her love language is words of affirmation… I need to beef up on this because I’m a straight shooter.” (Katie, 34:00)

• Self-Care:

  • Both rely on routines (reading, meditation, exercise, therapy) and healthy boundaries to sustain themselves across multiple business and personal commitments.

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8. Advice for Aspiring Business Partners

[36:30 – 38:53]

• Date Before You Marry:

  • “Really think hard and ensure that you’re picking someone that has the quality and attributes that you’re going to mesh well with. It’s just like a relationship, you kind of want to date that person… are you guys sharing the same vision?” (Kate, 36:52)

• Talk About the End Before You Begin:

  • Create an explicit “prenup” or operating agreement covering business dissolution, division of assets, buy-outs, etc.
  • “You need to talk about how you’re going to dissolve the business… we talked about it, like, okay, well, what would that look like?” (Katie, 37:40)

• Boundaries Help:

  • Professional relationship first, friendship second, can clarify boundaries and roles.

• Security Through Clarity:

  • “It actually created a lot of security because everybody knows exactly what’s going to happen. And when you’re not feeling that anxiety, it allows you to rest and relax and trust a little bit more.” (Amy, 39:18)

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9. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Value of Systems:

  • “Our ability to move faster and learn faster is better with a partnership.” (Katie, 20:26)

• On Emotional Health in Business:

  • “Humaning is hard.” (Amy, 30:23)
  • “Chocolate.” [On coping!] (Kate, 30:23)

• On Business Partnerships as Marriages:

  • “A business partner is a marriage… and we communicate really well.” (Kate, 14:00)
  • “There’s never been tit for tat… We just know that it ebbs and flows.” (Katie, 31:17)

• On Self-Awareness:

  • “Frito Lay is not making cookies. Frito Lay just keeps making chips.” (Katie, 12:55; on sticking to core competencies)

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10. Key Takeaways for Future Partners

• Choose your business partner with intention—shared values and vision are key.
• Communicate openly and professionally; build trust and appreciation deliberately.
• Invest time in systemization and play to each other’s strengths.
• Discuss and document practicalities, including eventual exits, before problems arise.
• Treat the partnership as you would any important relationship—support, boundaries, and care are crucial.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:27] – How Kate & Katie met and formed the business
• [11:29] – Lessons learned about themselves and each other
• [14:00] – The “business marriage” analogy
• [16:54] – Division of labor and evolution of roles
• [19:36] – Importance and process of systemization
• [23:52] – Navigating business finances and conflict story
• [29:43] – Handling emotions and life challenges in business
• [36:30] – Top advice for choosing an amazing business partner

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This episode provides a rich and honest look behind the scenes of a successful business partnership, offering useful, actionable recommendations for anyone considering this path in private practice or beyond. The dynamic between Kate and Katie is illustrative, sincere, and full of laughter, making for an engaging listen (and a valuable summary)!

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Private Practice Startup where we inspire you from startup to mastery. We chat with entrepreneurs, experts in the mental health and business arenas, and successful private practitioners to give you the tools needed to make your dream practice a reality. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings and so much more. Here are your hosts, Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux.

[B]

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Private Practice Startup podcast. This is your superhero, Katie Lemieux hanging.

[A]

Out with you guys. It's so hard for me to take her seriously while we're starting this podcast.

[B]

Right now because it's Halloween and I got my superhero cake on.

[A]

That's like a kid's cut out mask of I don't even know what type of material.

[B]

It's like felt.

[A]

It's. Yeah, it's like a mask. It's really funny that like actually take you seriously as you're starting the show with your, with your superhero cape and your mask on. I'm Dr. Kate Campbell, the co host here and co. Super. Co. Superhero. Yes.

[B]

But really you guys are the superheroes, right?

[A]

Therapists are superheroes. So that's.

[C]

We are all superheroes.

[B]

That's right. And that's Amy Lasseter piping in. So she is this. She's not. She's our guest, but she's not our guest. We're gonna be the guests of the show too. So a super spooky Halloween episode.

[A]

Flip in the script. Flip in the script. Yeah. We're gonna be on of the podcast. Yes.

[B]

This is a fun thing. So we are going to talk about how to choose an amazing business partner. So really cool. Amy had approached us and said I would love to interview you guys on your podcast. And we said that's a cool idea. What are we going to talk about? And so that is what we are going to talk about. But before we do all that, we hoped you joined us last podcast where we talked to Dr. Keely Combs. They talked to us about avoiding ethical mishaps on social media. So we took a deep dive into social media policies how that all kind of came about really looking at what we need to do to protect our clients, protect ourselves. So you want to make sure you join us for that one or had joined us and if you hadn't go join us there. But anyways, so also we want to invite you. Usually we say, you know, welcome if you're a brand new listener. Awesome. But we're going to say welcome anyways and we're rolling out our super I don't even know, like a. I can't even come off an analogy off the top of my head about, like, I usually say, rolling out the red carpet, like, flying out my cape. I don't know, guys, but we're just excited and happy that you're here. Usually we give you guys our A to Z cheat sheet, but we want to give you something else this time. So go over to privatepracticestartup.com, head over to the Resources tab, and guess what? We all need paperwork for our practice. We want to give you our attorney approved customizable HIPAA form for free, and you can actually grab a $5 release of information. So total value, I think it's like $59. So head over to the Resources tab and you'll see the HIPAA there, and you can grab both of those just for five bucks. What a steal. So also, before we do get started, we want to just take a moment for our awesome sponsor.

[A]

Yes, today's sponsor for our spooktacular episode. I don't even think I've ever said that word before is Gusto. If you're in private practice, you most likely wear tons of hats and capes and masks and all of that good stuff. And some of those hats are totally great. But some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example. Wah, wah. Not so great. That's where Gusto comes comes in. Gusto makes payroll taxes and HR actually really easy for small businesses. It's a fast and simple payroll processing, doing your benefits, and they also have expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state, and local taxes so you don't have to worry about it and scramble at the end of the year trying to get all of that done. Plus, they make it easy for you to add on your health benefits and even 401ks for your team. Let them wear one of your many hats and you have many better things to do in private practice. Listeners who take advantage of this opportunity will get three months free when they run their first payroll. So try a demo and see for [e-mail] pps as in private practice startup. That's gusto.com pp. So, actually, if you guys want to just go to the show notes for this particular episode, you'll be able to see that link and you guys will be able to get that right away.

[B]

Yeah. So make it super easy. That's just the best way to do it.

[A]

There are so many ways to keep your practice organized, but TherapyNotes is by far the best. They're easy to use. Secure platform, lets you not only do billing, scheduling and progress notes, but also create a client portal to share documents and request signatures. Plus, they offer amazing unlimited phone support. So when you have a question, they're there so you can get help fast. Get started with TherapyNotes today, trusted by over 60,000 professionals. Go to therapynotes.com and enter promo code PPS, as in Private Practice Startup and you'll get two months for free. Also, you can listen to episode 54 where we interviewed Brad Pliner and took an in depth view into their ehr. Today is Halloween, which is always a.

[B]

Fun day, which is my favorite out.

[A]

Of the whole year. I feel like, honestly, it's been Halloween for a week. I've been celebrating Halloween for the past week, dressing up with my son. He's three and a half. We've had all these little block parties and trunk retreats and tonight we're gonna go trick or treating. And you know, this is a great little costume, so I might just have to wear it tonight.

[B]

If you have to wear the mask.

[A]

You probably would laugh. We're at Katie's house doing a full workday, working on our marketing E course for private practitioners. And so we're actually podcasting from the guest bedroom. We've got a light on us. We've got all these wires coming out from everywhere. We've got.

[B]

It's surgery.

[A]

It looks like we're set up for surgery. It's quite the situation over here. Anyways, we are so excited to be seeing Amy again. It's been. Gosh, how long has it been since we had you last on our podcast? Probably about a year or so.

[C]

I think it was over a year ago.

[A]

Yeah. Great to see you again.

[C]

It's awesome to be here and I so appreciate you guys giving me the chance. Like, I realized it was kind of odd to get an email and be like, hey, so can I talk to you on your podcast about partnerships and all of that good stuff.

[A]

So I totally love the fact that you guys are like, oh my gosh, bring cool.

[B]

Yeah, totally. I mean, it's so fun to do different things. So we appreciate it.

[C]

It really is.

[A]

It is fun. Yeah. Honestly, this is a really important topic and something very unique. And owning a business by yourself is a lot of work. It really is. And sometimes having a business partnership is a really smart business decision. It definitely was for us. We call each other bp, as in business partner. That's our endearing way to refer to each other.

[B]

Although sometimes when we do the Speak to text. It comes out, baby.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Many times they've said, hey, hey, baby. Hey, baby.

[C]

Hey, hey, baby, hey.

[A]

Beep. But she knows what I mean when that happens, right? This is gonna be totally off the cuff, off cusp. Yes. However you say that it can be both totally spontaneous. I have no idea what questions Amy's gonna ask us. So let's get started.

[B]

Let's just turn it over. Amy, it's your show. Go.

[C]

Everybody like, no. Okay, so here's one of the things that I am curious about. And how did you two even meet? How did the private practice start come to fruition?

[A]

Well, we met in licensure supervision back in 2006. We were in supervision together along that two year journey, and then we went on for AAMFT approved supervision together. So that was a four year process of getting supervision together. And our supervisor at the time twisted our arms. She didn't have to twist too hard and wanted us to become president and vice president to resurrect the Broward association for Marriage and Family Therapy because it was really six feet under. And we realized through that three year volunteer experience, which was we poured our heart and soul into that resurrecting experience of the chapter and really got it to be thriving. We realized how well we worked together as a team. And I had gone to a particular training here, the Florida Qualified supervisor training, one weekend. And the training was the most boring 16 hours ever. And I was like, oh my gosh, Katie, we've got to help other clinicians with this. We've got to teach this training. And that's something that we basically that became our flagship training. We started off with that together and we started doing that a couple times across the state a year. And we still do it today. And we still do it today. And we realized at that time, hey, this is a business. This is like a side hustle that we're doing that's not a part of either one of our practices. So it probably makes sense for us to get incorporated. And then in the beginning of our work together, we were focused more generalized on mental health professionals and helping them with various aspects of trainings like licensure, renewal, which we still offer, and the supervision course. But our real passion was to be able to work with private practitioners. And we realized through our own experiences of having six figure plus private practices and then coaching other private practitioners, we were both doing that and really attracting people who are wanting to know, how did you guys build such successful private practices? We realized that clinicians really struggle the most with creating, with branding themselves and then marketing their private practice. So that's really become our niche and the area that we focus the most in because that's. And we're passionate about the most, which is what we teach. Yep. So that's definitely following our passion and then meeting the need of private practitioners because that's the area that they struggle the most in. They go to school to become great clinicians, but unfortunately, schools don't teach them the business, entrepreneurial, sales, marketing schools skills that they really need to know. The long story short, that's how we met and how we got into business together.

[C]

That's awesome. I think it's really interesting because marketing is such a hard piece. And when I talk to other therapists and they're like, I don't know how to do, how to market and how to do this, I was like, you know how to connect with people, right? Because you do that.

[B]

I was like, that's what it is.

[C]

Like, you already know we talked about.

[B]

Taking those skills outside the four walls. Right. Like, so therapists have great skills, but it's just transferring those skills in a different area. But we forget all about that. Like when we walk outside.

[A]

It's so true.

[C]

It's like, you want me to say what you want me to what? I totally get that. I love it. So you guys have known each other for a really long time and have worked together. It sounds like in numerous capac. In numerous different ways. And through that time period, you grow a lot, you learn a lot. And so what do you think when you all decided to go into partnership, incorporate the business? What did you realize about yourself that you didn't realize prior to incorporating of the business and really making it a true business and that you guys were true business partners? Hmm.

[B]

What do we realize about ourselves that.

[C]

You didn't know before?

[A]

The first thing that comes to my mind is that, I mean, I already knew that I was a hard worker and that you were a hard worker.

[B]

Because we, we had experienced that together.

[A]

We've experienced that together. I don't think I realized how much like doing. We just jump right in and do things and we'll just like tackle tasks and not really pick our heads up to really look at the bigger vision.

[B]

I mean, that even came up today.

[A]

It did.

[B]

You're like, let's start working. I'm like, no, let's pull back. Let's look at the big picture. So we, that's definitely something that we have to stay well. And we still have this Liberian tune to.

[A]

Yeah, because we'll jump. We're highly motivated, we're hard workers, we're really driven, and we can get so passionate about the content we're creating and like the lower level hanging fruit that we forget to, like, pick our heads up and look at the bigger picture of things and ensure that we're really staying on track. And also, we tend to take on too much, too many opportunities. We have a hard time saying no.

[B]

Sometimes it's a definite evolution, right? But I think we continue to modify and tweak that. Like, we just had a conversation yesterday, and, you know, it's interesting, like, when we talk about business, like, the things that we learned and continue to learn is really just like that streamlining. Like, I even said to Kate yesterday, where we're talking about our paperwork and we're doing a Black Friday sale, right? And I'm like, why did we do this? Why didn't we just do what works where we already have the system in place? And you said something, and I said, well, Frito Lay is not making cookies. Like, Frito Lay just keeps making chips. That's all we keep making, right? So it's this constant evolution, stepping into things, looking at things. So it's a constant journey. I also think that one of the things that we also realize is that, you know, and this is also, again, we practice what we preach in the sense of what are your natural talents? Initially, Kate was taking over the financials just because that's what happened. She doesn't really. Numbers aren't her thing. So I do the financials and I love it. You know what I mean? So really looking at your natural talents and really highlighting each of your natural talents is so important in a partnership. And I don't think this was something like we realized. But our communication is just so, you know, when I just need to keep Kate in the loop or she needs to keep me. We'll bcc on the email just so.

[A]

The information is there.

[B]

I don't think there's rarely ever a time where we don't know what's going on on. You know, it's pretty cool, the communication.

[A]

We work really well together as a team, which is awesome, because honestly, a business partner is a marriage, right? So we're married. We are married. And we legally too, and we communicate really well, which is great. That's definitely a strength of ours. And we both have different strengths that we bring to the table and it complements really well, which is nice, because I can't imagine having this whole business and that all being on My shoulders. It would feel so overwhelming. It's so nice to be able to have somebody else to be in the trenches with you and really sharing that passion and that journey and the workload as well.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

So if you. So sometimes how I describe it, and I heard it a little bit when you were talking about, you get so focused on another project that you forget to pull up and look at the whole big vision. How do you. How do you point that out to each other when the other one is doing it? Or is it like, hey, you're doing that thing again?

[B]

Yeah. We take feedback from each other, like, really well. And I think for me, and I don't know how you feel, but I think because we didn't start this off as a friendship, it was more like two professionals coming together. So it stayed very professional. And we've developed a friendship over time, but when we get into it, sometimes it's like we're already in it. I think the other thing, too, is when we commit to something, we both commit to it. And if along the road, we're like, damn, why do we do this? We're like, okay, this is another learning lesson. And it's just like a realization. We say it. It is what it is, and then we remind ourselves, you know? So I think that's how I kind of take that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

Yeah. It's always open to give each other feedback and kind of like, check in. And we do have to ourselves and catch each other because we can be so excited about an opportunity and so excited about collaborating and partnering with people where we're like, yes, let's move forward with that. It's so exciting. We'd love to be able to do that. And we're like, wait a minute. But we're trying to launch our E course in the fall, and now it's, like, nearing the end of the fall, and it's going to be, you know, so we have to kind of like, take that. Take that step back and really look at what is on our plates and what's realistic.

[B]

Right. Like, even phone calls and people reaching out and wanting to connect, it's like, I. Not right now. Like, you just have to keep reminding yourself, so.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And each other.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, and it sounds like it takes a lot of patience, too. And you guys were saying earlier, too, that you play to each other's strengths. And how did that happen when it came to the division of the labor of, you know, the business? And have you. Is there a time when you've had to address an issue where it's like, it was working for me when we first started, it is no longer working for me now. How do we want to address this?

[A]

That's a really good question. We kind of have naturally just evolved into these different roles and responsibilities and we're very collaborative. And Katie numbers aren't my thing, so Katie does more of the finances. And then we're both involved in a lot of facets of the business. I really fell into a lot of the tech work because I'm good at that and I can do it. However, it's not necessarily my passion. So tech is one of those things that over time we've, as we've, you know, the first phase of building a business is more like the bootstrapping phase. So you're, you know, you're pulling up your bootstraps, you're getting in there, you're. You're kind of like hustling and getting through a lot of the initial building and growing. And now that we're in this place where we can outsource. I'm not building another website. We've outsourced that for our.

[B]

You guys can all hold her accountable for that.

[A]

Just saying because she said that before. Now you all know, building our platform and coaching hybrid that we're offering and she's taking on all of that tech work. And it's really nice to be able to have those types of things off, off of our plates.

[B]

And I think I remember when we like completely systemized and outsourced our whole podcast system. Except during the podcast, like, Kate was getting to this point where, like, there was a lot of resistance. You were like pinched and squeezed so much. You're like, I just can't. I'm so burnt out. And it was like, okay, we gotta do something. Like, this is not working. And now we've completely systemized that system. Another system and a few others. And it's just like, it's. We joke about it like, I love systems, right? Like, it's just when you systemize something and it works almost like effortlessly. We joke around because like, we Even today, before we hit record, right, Amy, we're saying like, oh, we forgot we even had to host the show. I forgot it's our podcast. But it's like, it's so systemized. It's like we just show up and it's like, oh, damn, we have two things to do. What are those things?

[A]

Who's our sponsor for today? Who's our sponsor?

[B]

What's going on?

[A]

Like a last minute scramble. That's the amazing aspect of having something so systemized, though, and that's another aspect of, like, how we've kind of pivoted and changed and evolved over time. Because the podcast tech, that was something that I figured out, and I was really passionate about us doing this podcast. And it was like, I'll figure it out. I'll take it on, and I'll do all of that. And we have. Our whole podcast system is like 35 plus steps. I mean, it is a massive system, and that was taking, like, hours and hours and hours every week to stay on top of. So once we outsource that, we don't even have to, like, know really what's going on. It's just taken care of, and poof, magically, we just get to appear here with our mask and cape and hang out with you and have fun. So it's really. Yeah. Reignited the passion.

[C]

Yeah. And I think. I love that you guys are talking about systems, because I think they're so critical to businesses because you are making. So I think I saw a stat somewhere once where it was like, an entrepreneur makes an average of 25,000 decisions a day, whereas the average person makes 15. And that can lead to a lot of decision fatigue and just exhaustion and burnout. So when we're talking about systems and things like that, how do you all decide, like, okay, we've got a system. You know, we have to put a system behind this. We need a system. You know, this. And how do you all prioritize what systems need to come first? And is there ever conflict for the two of you when it comes to that?

[B]

Good question.

[A]

So one of the.

[B]

I just want to kind of, like, back up and say, one of the beauties of having a partnership. I feel like Kate and I have the opportunity to actually, like, learn more and less time. And what I mean by that is, like, she just listened to a podcast this morning, and she just gave me the cliff notes of it. I just finished reading a book this week, and I'm like, here's 23 things that I thought was cool, and here's three things that's really important. So our ability to move faster and learn faster is better with a partnership. And so when we look at systems, one, I think we look at when we. When we learn, right? So one of the things about entrepreneurial business ship is when we look at. I don't know if anyone seen the founder, but that was all about Ray Kroc and McDonald's. Right. And so when you can systemize and outsource Things that an expert or professional doesn't have to do, that's what you need to be doing. And a lot of the stuff anyways is systemizable, right? So we can't systemize. We can't, we can't systemize doing the therapy, right? Like a therapist actually has to do that. But really everything else around our practices, we can probably systemize, right? So when we look at a lot of the tech stuff, the podcast, we systemize our webinar system. Jessica, our marketing extraordinaire, she does all the marketing and we kind of coach her in certain aspects. But that's just really overall, hands off for us. Our whole affiliate system, that was massive. So it's, it's my, my mind works a little bit more systemically. Like, Kate gets the overall picture, but there's some places she'll get stuck and she'll be like, I need, like, I need you to look at this aspect. And I can look at, okay, if this, then this, this, then this. So what we do in the systemization, like I said, it's a lot of tech stuff. It's a lot of stuff that can be done by someone else and, or through video or technology leverage. So leveraging technology to do the work, that's a really important thing. And then we just walk through it until it's perfect, and then we send it to someone, a layperson, and ask them to walk through the system and then we tweak it if need be. And that's kind of how we choose systems, what to systemize. But a lot of the stuff in the creation phase, like with the marketing e course right now, it's all on us until we get it down and then systemize it. Did I answer your question? I feel like I gave you a long winded one.

[C]

No, I think it's, I think it's a really. I think you answered it perfectly. It's, you know, they're just really critical to the business. And, you know, when we talk about, you know, systems and trying to put all of that into place, I think it can get really challenging and I think it's great. You know, that's kind of the beauty of a partnership is that you can ideally play off each other's strengths. If you're somebody who's like, oh, I can do xyz, like that makes total sense to me. Whereas somebody else is like, yeah. And I think that's really great. When you mentioned earlier that. And I also want to say I absolutely agree with you that a business partnership is really like a Marriage. And one of the things that we all know, especially with marriage and family background financials are a big challenge for a lot of marriages. How to handle the finances, all of that stuff. How did you all approach finances when you first started? And I know that the roles have shifted some, but how did you start that conversation?

[B]

My first answer is a smart one, like, oh, we weren't making that much money. So that was easy. Yeah, we weren't making much money a.

[A]

Couple of times a year. And it was like the side hustle, just this training company. And then as we started to grow and evolve, and we also read Profit first and so good. We've been following the profit first system, which has been amazing. And I am dyslexic. I am not like a numbers person. I like to outsource that whenever possible. And Katie loves to be involved in all the numbers in the finance. So it works really well for our business marriage.

[B]

And in your actual own marriage, that's how you guys, Your husband does the finances.

[A]

So maybe in my marriage, maybe she.

[B]

Was primed for it.

[A]

So it's worked really well in our marriage and my marriage with Brent, with him managing the finances. And I'm still involved, but. And then I outsource it at my private practice as well.

[B]

So, yeah, that was never. It's funny when you say, like, a lot of marriages have financial, like, you know, it never was. And this is the thing that I think, you know, in education and learning, when we talk about not only systems in our business, but when we look at what other systems are successful for people and what are they doing that works, and being an entrepreneur and being open to that and being like, okay, this is a system that works. It's not emotional.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like, okay, well, let's try this out. Does it work for us? Okay, great. It works for us. Let's keep doing it. So I think that's easy and it's interesting because Kate and I will, like, we're human. So there's days and Kate has stuff going on in her life, or I have stuff going on in my life, and we might not be our best selves. And so sometimes we'll just check in and be like, I felt like I was being really bitchy today, so if that came across, like, I'm really sorry. And usually it's like, no, I didn't even notice, or, I'm sorry you're feeling that way, but thanks for checking in. So that's, you know, a lot of our decisions are very, like, clear, not emotional. We get more emotional when we say yes to things, and we're like, why.

[A]

Do we do this? Like, we did it to ourselves again, getting overwhelmed. But, yeah, we did have one situation, though, that happened, gosh, maybe a year and a half ago. This was, like, the biggest, I guess, conflict. The point of.

[B]

Kate thought I was divorcing her.

[A]

Yes. I basically, like, had internal freak out and like, took me, I don't know, months to recover from that because. Jump ship on me.

[B]

I've had to pay for her emdr. No, I'm kidding.

[C]

There's a whole separate budget for that. Let's just see.

[A]

Okay. We're out to lunch one day, and we're reflecting on, like, our vision and our direction of where we're going. And I had been talking about wanting to do this E course for years, and we were. We were trying to be more, like, generalist in private practice. Like, the whole shebang of, like, from startup to mastery, which is part of our tagline, but it's just too much. And then we were realizing at lunch, like, we're spreading ourselves too thin. We've got a shift. What are clinicians struggling the most with?

[B]

And then I came on really strong.

[A]

Yep. And in that conversation, Katie came on, like, super strong. Very strong. And I left that meeting with, like, a ton of anxiety and freaking out, like, oh, my gosh, she's gonna totally bail. She's gonna ju. Ship. And I had a hard time kind of trusting that you were going to be committed for a while. Yeah.

[B]

Look at Amy. You're making us do therapy. Cobalt counseling for me, I'm sharing this.

[A]

With the world, you know, whoever's listening. But so much so that I had a date night with my husband that weekend. We're sitting at Valentino's in Fort Lauderdale restaurant, and we're up at the chef's table, like, the bar, where basically it's like you and you're sitting in the kitchen, and they're all cooking in front of you and, like, watching.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

Amazing. So we're drinking this amazing bottle of wine, having this, like, really romantic dinner. We've got a sitter watching Landon. It's like date night. Right. Which we love to do. That's like, a ritual for us. And I start talking about, like, what had happened, and I was filled with so much anxiety that I just literally started, like, crying in the restaurant, at the chef's. Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah. Because I was just filled with anxiety. Like, oh, man, we've invested so much in this business partnership. We like, come so far, and it's growing, and we're, like, about to really, like, take off in this direction, and then I feel like, oh, my gosh, she's gonna jump ship on me. So, yeah, that was a long answer and kind of like a vulnerable thing to share because I haven't even told her no. Now I know, but now she knows. So I had, like, a total freakout, and it took me a while to recover from that, be like, okay, she's in it, she's committed. We're good. We've regrouped, We've found our niche. And that thing that really ignites us as people and as professionals who are helping clinicians, and then it's what they struggle with the most. So now that we're staying focused on that, the marketing ecourse, helping therapists brand themselves, market the dream practices and the paperwork, Those two things are two products and services that we're helping clinicians with. And other than that, we're, like, trying to keep our blinders up and, like, stay laser focused.

[B]

I feel like the wind catches the blinder every once in a while. Like, oh, what's over there?

[A]

Yes. So that. That one situation, though, is, like, the main challenge. However, it was an opportunity for us to pivot, and although it was very difficult and there was a lot of anxiety and a lot of, like, uncomfortable moments, we were able to pivot and really pivot in such a good way that it's been, like, so, so transformational on a lot of levels, and we've really just taken off since then.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Anything you want to add to that?

[B]

No, that was well said. I'll let you have the spotlight on that one.

[A]

Yeah, my freak out moment. Yeah.

[C]

So I think it's interesting when we're talking about business ownership and that we're also helpers and healers by trade, and we're still human beings, and we're dealing with our stuff on top of business, stuff on top of serving clients. So what do you all think when your emotional stuff does come up in business? And just because humaning is hard, are there certain tools that you feel like you lean on more than others? Because this is one of the things that I see pop up a lot, especially in my office and when I'm working with other clinicians, is people don't seem to understand how to heal yourself and how to move through your own stuff while helping others and moving a business forward.

[A]

Chocolate.

[C]

What a great Halloween time for you then, right?

[B]

Actually, this year has been. I think you took the bulk of most of the year stuff going on. And I just. I grabbed a big piece of it recently. I had some family crisis stuff going on. So I think the beauty of. Kate and I always talk about isomorphism, right? So, like, two things happening in the same context simultaneously. And I think the beauty of what we teach and what we help, therapists, we talk about lifestyle, business, dream lifestyle, we apply that to ourselves. So when we look at, you know, and there's a clear communication between Kate and I, like, this is what's happening. This is what's going on. And also the way that we process and do things, we just communicate about that. Like, I had an emergency pop up in my life, like, two weeks ago, and I just. Kate was on her way to my house for a meeting, and I had gotten this call, and I was just like, hey, I need, like, can you come at 11? Family crisis. And then she waited or whatever. And I was like, just FYI, I don't want to talk about it when you get here. Not ready. And we just respect that, right? And then later on it comes out. So there's a high level of respect, but a high level of support and checking in. And, like, even when I was away this weekend with my family, Kate was checking in on me and, like, are you okay? How's it going? So there's very much that. But it's a lot in communication. And, you know, there's times where, you know, life kind of takes a hold and one of us has had to step back, but we don't. You know, I think sometimes in a marriage that might not be going well, there feels like there's more tit for tat. Like, well, I did the dishes, you know, tonight, and you should cook tomorrow. Like, it's never been that way because we're just so dedicated and hard working and that we almost, like, feel bad. You know, it's kind of like, let me try to pull my weight or do something more. And we just know that it ebbs and flows. We're both very committed to it, so it's not even a question.

[A]

And with our couples therapy, we're both couples therapists, right? So we talk about, like, when you have a culture of appreciation and, like, fondness, then there is that freedom and flexibility and that given take and you give your partner the benefit of the doubt. It's very isomorphic. And that is something that's very present for us in our relationship. I know I'm always sharing, you know, how much I appreciate you and how I'm grateful for everything that you're doing and just like, thank you, thank you, thank you. Just to let you know. And you know, that keeps us in this place because we are contributing and really pulling our weight. And there are some times where life happens and emergencies happen and loss happens and. Or health issues, and we've definitely dealt with a fair share. It's been really hard this past year dealing with a lot of that on a personal level. I know for me personally, it's been, like, one of the hardest years of my life. And so I've been dealing with a lot of. On a lot of levels, working through some things and a lot. Yeah, seeing therapist, hypnotherapist, lots of medical stuff going on and losses. And. Yeah, it's been difficult. And I, you know, could not imagine having any other business partner. Katie's been so incredibly supportive. And it's not like I haven't been present during those times, but there have been times where I haven't been able to for short windows. And she's just like, I got it. I got it. Do your thing. Take care of you. And that's what's so amazing about having a business partnership, when life happens to have somebody that's really got your back and in this with you. And because we both pull our weight and we have so much appreciation and gratitude that's present. We just have this beautiful marriage. Honestly, it is.

[B]

And I'll say, and I think I've shared this with you before, but maybe not enough. But that's one thing, like, I've learned from Kate. Like, he talks about her love. Language is, you know, words of affirmation.

[A]

And I would.

[B]

I would realize, like, how affirming she was constantly. And I was like, I need to beef up on this because I'm a straight shooter. I'm just, like, very direct. Sometimes it comes across harsh. And I've had to learn in business to take a step back, connect first. For anyone who does the disc profile, I'm a high D. Like, boom. Like, let's just get it done. Let's just cut the crap. Like, what do you need? Okay, great. So I've had it really shift and change. So there's a lot of, like, praise affirmations. Sometimes there's even, like, random surprise gifts. Like, yeah, very much like a marriage.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yep. So, yeah, I got a surprise.

[C]

What do you think is the best gift?

[B]

The best gift. What's the best gift? Like, what we gave each other.

[C]

The best gift that you guys have given each other, that you've received from.

[B]

The other, that's a good question. To me, it's a committed business partnership and like being able to watch what we've created and how it's grown, I think that's cool.

[A]

Yeah. Being able to reap the rewards of that, that's definitely cool. Yeah.

[B]

And I know, Amy, you had like the question about like, how. Kate, you kind of answer like, how do you take care of yourself? So for me, reading, meditating and working out is like part of my habitual habits. So that's really important. Taking time off. I've been traveling a lot this last month. That's not always. It's nice to see the world, but it's not. That's not the way I decompress. So taking time, doing fun things, assuring that I'm taking care of myself. So that's kind of reaching out for coaching, mentoring and support when I need it.

[A]

Yeah. The self care piece is important because keep in mind, this is just one of our businesses. We both have two businesses and I've got a group practice. We're actually doing this office expansion now. We've got a group of 15 clinicians that work with us. I've got a three and a half year old and a husband and it's like a lot of balls in the air. So being able to have some boundaries and enjoy the weekend, spend time with my family. Pilates a couple times a week. And I'm like a foodie and wine lover. So anytime I can go out and get like date night in or drink some good wine and enjoy the whole food and wine experience together, that's always like something that I really enjoy. So. And then of course, I've been doing my own personal work this year too, which has been really important.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I feel like we could talk to you for like hours about this stuff and tell me more. I'm just looking at the time and we, yeah. Probably start to wrap it up a bit.

[C]

Yeah. And you know, of course I always, I'm like, oh God, I'm the universe. And it's timing. Because really the last question that I really wanted to ask is, is there one piece of advice that you would give someone else who wants to start a partnership or joint venture? What would that one piece of advice be?

[A]

Okay. So I would say really think hard and ensure that you're picking someone that has the quality and attributes that you're going to mesh well with. It's just like a relationship, you kind of want to date that person a little bit, get to know them, really understand what makes them tick. Are you guys sharing the same vision and having the same goals and ensuring that you have that foundation there first before jumping into the marriage of partnership? Not just, like, off the bat, jumping in and then creating a prenup, really, with, like, a business. If we were to dissolve this business marriage, what's going to happen to the business? How are we going to handle the finances? Can one partner buy the other person out if they want to carry on? So really creating that prenup and dating your business partner before you end up in a married relationship with them?

[B]

Yeah, and that's kind of like what I was going to say. When Kate and I first decided to form an llc, I reached out. I have a very legal mind. So I reached out to a colleague who's a family law attorney, a friend, really, and she, like, I said, what's the best advice? And she goes, you need to talk about how you're going to dissolve the business. Business now. And I said, that's, like, awesome. Like, that makes total sense. And we talked about it, like, okay, well, what, like, case that. What would that look like? Who gets what? What if I want to get out? How does that look? And then creating the operating agreement, because, you know, I don't. I think sometimes, like, when we do talk about marriages, people, like, avoid the prenup conversation or what would happen if we get divorced? Because they don't want to put that out there. But the truth is, is when we talk about those things and those taboo topics, we already. We already have the plan, like, and it's not that it's gonna make it happen, but we're both clear. And I think. I mean, I've never had a business partner that I've been friends with first, but I think for me, like, us being more of a professional relationship and developing a friendship over time, that was really helpful because, I don't know, there was, like, more clear boundaries for me. So I think that that was really helpful as well. I wish I had, like, a better, like, guidebook of, like, do this, do that, do this. But that's from our experience.

[C]

Well, now you guys have an idea for your next E course. How do you build in a couple years? In a couple years? No, I just. I think that's great. And I really love that you guys are honest about the conversation. And, you know, what does the prenup look like? And if we were to dissolve, what would that look like? Because in truth, yes, that can cause a lot of anxiety. It can cause a lot of anxiety because there's not a clear foundation or what is going to happen. And a lot of people think that's what's going to happen when what I really hear happened for you guys is it actually created a lot of security because everybody knows exactly what's going to happen. And when you're not feeling that anxiety, it allows you to rest and relax and trust a little bit more because you already know what happens.

[A]

So I love it.

[C]

I think it's great.

[B]

Awesome. Well, Amy, we so appreciated you reaching out to us and suggesting this because this was a ton of fun. And like Kate said, we've actually wanted to talk about this for a while. So we're so glad that you said what about this topic. So we thank you for that and Sarc Nation, we thank you for listening in on this and we hope it was also enjoyable for you because I know we don't. We share stories but it's not usually the, we're not usually the focus. So hopefully you learned a little bit more about us. And also if you are starting a business partnership, some things that you could.

[A]

Do look for or if you're in.

[B]

One already, like how do you go about that and navigate that. So we hope you join us next week. This is a really important topic especially for, for those of you who are still grappling with your six figure student loans. How do you get rid of those things? So Travis Hornsby is going to join us next week for that. So you want to make sure you check that out. And as always, we love that when you show us the love. So whether you send us a Google review or post something on itunes, honestly, Kate shared with me just today a video testimonial from one of our coaching clients, Dr. Shawn Davis. Like legit. Guys, I got chills. I know what we do is helpful, but to really hear it from you guys, it is just like wow. So we love for you to show us the love. So however you want to do that, just let us know what you're up to and how we're inspiring you in the community as well. Don't forget to hang out with us on Facebook at the private practices startup.com. nope, that would be a website. Look for the Private Practice Startup. That would be the Facebook group. So we will look for you guys.

[A]

To join us next week. See you later Startup Nation. We'll see you next time, Startup Nation. Thanks so much Amy. It was great seeing you again. Thank you.

[C]

Thanks.

[A]

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources. Free trainings attorney approved private practice paperwork and so much more, Sam.