A (2:46)

So that is right under the resources.

B (2:48)

Tab, right on our website.

A (2:52)

So Kate is going to be.

B (2:53)

Kate is our guest. I didn't even announce it yet. So Kate is our guest and I'm actually going to be interviewing Kate. And our topic today is how to find the perfect private practice office space, so. Well, I'll let Kate share all that, but before we do that, why don't we go ahead and jump into our sponsor and then we'll get started on our topic.

A (3:12)

Sounds good. Yes. I'm excited to be here. Actually. It's been a long time since you've interviewed me on our podcast. Remember when we did those solo episodes a long time ago? It's been a really long time. So Katie's looking at me talking about solo episode.

B (3:29)

Each other.

A (3:30)

Yeah, I think we interviewed each other, like, way, way long time ago. Maybe a year and a half ago or so. We interviewed each other on. I think it was like our biggest struggles and the things that we've learned the most, and it was like more of a reflective experience. So this is gonna be fun to be talking about the journey of finding the perfect private office space. And I'm going to talk a little bit about my experience with that. But before we do that, let's take a quick break from our sponsor. Today's sponsor is TherapyNotes. When it comes to keeping your practice organized, you want to have a software that's not only simple, but the best. And that's why we recommend TherapyNotes. Their platform lets you manage notes, claims, scheduling, and more. Plus, they offer amazing unlimited phone and email support. So just when you have a question, they're right there. They've got your back, and they're happy to help. So if you head over to our show notes page, you'll be able to get two free months of therapy notes today. Just use the promo code pps, as in Private Practice startup, when you sign up for the free trial@theapynotes.com and if you want to learn more about TherapyNotes, you can head over to episode 54, where we had Brad Pliner and we really did a deep dive into their whole platform and they really give us a good understanding of why their practice management software is trusted by over 60,000 professionals. So definitely check out the link on our show notes, use the code to make sure that you get the two free months. That's PPS. And thank you, TherapyNotes, for being our sponsor and for what you do.

B (5:10)

So as we're getting ready to dive into this topic, a memory comes up for me. So you and I were sitting in licensure supervision, and you are already, either you are already in private practice and I remember asking you some tips. I remember you showing me your first website, which was on like Dreamweaver. Is that even the right thing?

A (5:30)

That's a thing, yes. I've built probably seven, eight websites at this point. Never building one again, not doing it. And the first website that I had was built on Dreamweaver, which if you guys think WordPress is complicated because of code, Dreamweaver is like a whole nother animal. Yeah, it was a terrible looking website compared to my standards now, but it was a website. Hey, it was.

B (5:57)

And we can say that now, looking back. And I also remember us talking about like, oh, how do you get images? Well, you just go to Google and you take whatever you want and it's like, oh, my God, that was so illegal. Like, we didn't know what we were doing. But obviously a lot has changed in almost a decade.

A (6:13)

So you have a lot of experience.

B (6:14)

And now you're getting ready. Well, not getting ready. You're in the process of really building your dream group practice. And so we're going to kind of talk about that journey today.

A (6:24)

Yeah, so I've been in the private practice journey for 12, 13 years at this point. And yes, made a lot of mistakes along the way and have learned so many things the hard way because there weren't a lot of resources out there. Now there's so many great resources out there and different podcasts and coaches who actually specialize in helping people to grow their group practices. So I have a group practice, Bayview Therapy, down here in sunny South Florida. And I always knew from the first time I got into private practice that I wanted to someday have a group practice where I could have a whole team of professionals working. Everybody specializes in a different area, charges different price points for their services, and it's a really collaborative environment where we all support each other. Because let's face it, if you're in private practice, even if you're in a group practice, it can be isolative because you're in and out with clients all day long. And sometimes you can go a whole day and it's just you and your clients and that can feel kind of isolative and disconnecting. So I really wanted to create that dream group practice environment. Eight years ago in 2011, I had launched Bayview Therapy, which is the group practice, after many years of learning about how to have a thriving practice. And then when I first created baby therapy in 2011, the whole searching for an office experience was completely different than it is this time around. I've renewed my lease a couple of times where I am in the current building. But our team has grown so much that we really are ready for an expansion. And after being in the same office for eight years, we're ready for a change. We're ready for something nicer. Don't get me wrong, we have a really nice office space now. It's a very spa like atmosphere and great ambiance and everybody's really happy there. But during my experience of being in this particular building, the building owners sold the building about two and a half years ago or so to a new company. And it's really changed the whole experience of the building. They've put call centers into the building, which has created a lot of challenges for us. And the type of people working in the call centers is just a different type of clientele who are walking into the building now. So that's not really congruent with our business, the way that we run things. It's created issues with parking and all sorts of other issues. So on top of the readiness for moving and expanding, we also haven't been that happy with the building owners the past couple of years. So I'm really looking forward to being able to move our office into the new space, which will be happening just after the new year. So when we first started back in 2011 looking for our first space, the economy was in a different place. That was in 2011. It was really a buyer's market at that time, and now it's a seller's market, Meaning when I first started looking, the options that were out there were abundant. There were so many options for group spaces and the cost was around 50, 13 to $15 a square foot. Now we're in a booming economy and it's a seller's market. And so to actually find an ideal office space for our growing group practice has been a big challenge. I've been on this journey now for the past 10 months looking for office space. I probably looked at about 18 office spaces. And it took me a long time to find the perfect space. I really didn't want to settle and I didn't really know what to expect until I started researching year and actually going out and looking at spaces. And just the economy has gone up so much that now it's a lot more expensive to get into an office space down here in South Florida. I'm sure it's different in different areas across the country, but that's how it is in our community down here. So that was a little surprising. And I didn't, honestly, as I was looking for the different office spaces and looking at the options of what was out there, I didn't want to settle. I wanted to have something that's so much nicer than what we have now. So it really feels, feels like a step up and it's really going to meet the needs of our team. We have 15 people on the team and we're expanding and growing. I wanted to find a space that was really going to meet our needs. I couldn't find anything out there. I ended up deciding that I was going to do a complete build out from scratch, which I've never built out an office before. This is my first time. This is not my first rodeo looking for a group practice. So there's definitely some things that I learned and mistakes that I made the first time around that I did not make this time, which is great. Yeah, I was just going to share that it's really important to work with the right people. And we actually had Michael Feuerman, who is Marnie Feuerman. She is another clinician down here in South Florida. Her husband, Michael Feuerman is a commercial real estate agent and he used to be a real estate attorney a long time ago as well. So he had. Has both those expertise. We had him on the podcast many episodes ago. We'll put the link for you guys in the show notes because when we had him on that podcast, I was in the midst of the trenches with the new building owners and really struggling with some things there. And he just enlightened me so much about things that I should have done differently. I did not work with a real estate agent, commercial real estate agent. The first time around, I really just kind of did it on my own and had some friends who were helping, but they weren't really specialized in that area. He really enlightened me about a lot of things that we could do differently. Keep in mind everything is negotiable with finding a space. So whether you're Negotiating rent or parking spots or other types of things. Having him go through this entire process with me and take me around to see 15 to 18 different properties. He was really knowing what I was looking for, what my needs were, and was able to really give me a good understanding of what's out there on the market. Then he helped me a lot with the negotiations process. It was really nice to have him in my corner, him and his team. It was a really positive experience. So that's one of the things that I did differently the second time around that made a huge difference for me. And the cool thing about that is that the seller actually ends up paying for the fee for him. So it's not something that comes out of your own budget if that's a concern for you. I didn't realize that. I assumed that that would be coming out of my own budget, but it didn't. And then also, another professional that I worked with that was very helpful was the business attorney that's really specialized in the real estate contract. That was an expensive investment, but it's so essential because the legal language, you guys, this was like a 50 page document of legal language and so many loopholes and so many different things. And so it was. That was a really important thing that I did the second time around. So.

B (13:42)

One comment I want to make, Kate, is as you and I have evolved, and for those of you who are listening, who have really evolved as an entrepreneur, entrepreneurs, you learn things, right? And you learn things that apply to all situations. And one of the things that we talk about is outsourcing and also hiring experts, right? And hiring experts really can actually save you money in the long run. And so I just love that, you know, in the beginning you are kind of diying things, right? And trying to piecemeal things together. Because a lot of times when we get in a business, you know, funds are low and we have more time to spend, and so we kind of try to balance that out. But really, hiring experts, especially in this process, is so essential. And you've learned a lot in the process. I'm just curious, like, what are some of the things that you learned from Michael that maybe you hadn't learned before? And you're talking about negotiation and even negotiating parking spaces. But, like, what were some other cool things?

A (14:29)

Oh, gosh. I mean, there's just so many little details, like in the contracts of things, and I don't have any off the top, any specific ones off the top of my head, but there was a lot of things, a lot of little details that may have been overlooked or I might have just agreed to way beyond just the finances. This is just about like different ways that I'm protected, that our practice is protected. And yeah, it was just very interesting. It was good to have him in my corner. And then also the real estate attorney who really also had my back in the process and really is looking out for our best interests and making sure that we're protected, we're not being taken advantage of because there's so much of that legal language that you can't even comprehend, you know, even if you're researching. And I know you have a legal mind and you love to read the legal contracts and whatnot, but having somebody there who is actually an expert and able to understand this is normal. This is not normal. This is ridiculous. This is not. Let's go back with this. Let's go back with that. So it was a really long process. Actually, it took us about three months to get through the negotiation process with this one office of going back and forth negotiating with the contracts and with the attorneys and their attorneys and our attorneys. And we finally got to a place in the middle where I had to make some concessions. They made some concessions. We agreed upon a comfortable place for us. And nowadays, when you're looking, because it is a seller's market, oftentimes they want you to sign a longer lease. So it's a big commitment to get into a group practice. It's not like a solo office where it's just you and you know, you can depend on a certain amount of clients that are coming in and how much revenue you're going to be making and what kind of office you can afford. It's really important to be able to crunch the numbers beforehand. Before I got into the group practice in 2011, the first time around, I really worked at developing a solid business plan. I crunched the numbers, I had all of that information. But now, since we have a thriving group private practice and I have an established business and I know what those numbers are of how many clients are coming in the door, how many referrals, how many sessions the therapists are seeing, I'm able to look at those numbers and use that information to inform how big of an office can we get, what can we afford? And this time I really did a lot of work on the numbers to really be able project. And growing the private practice this time around has been a really big commitment and there's a lot of risk that comes along with that. Actually, to be honest, it's our overhead expenses just for rent went up by 60% and they weren't cheap beforehand, but now they're really expensive. And that was very anxiety provoking for me to look at and work the numbers and rework the numbers. And the way that I've set up our private practice and the business model is I want it to be really, really fair for the clinicians and be able to meet them where they're at. Because every practice has a different business model and a lot of people come with the percentages. And what we do is we just charge a flat fee when the therapist has sessions, when they see clients. And that's one of the things I wanted to really continue to make feasible and affordable for clinicians to be able to meet them where they're at, whether they're just starting out or they have a full practice. So I, I really spent a lot of time crunching those numbers and really not wanting the increase, even though my cost has gone up 60%, not wanting that to really weigh so heavily on the team. So there was a lot of work that went into that and figuring out how to do that and how that was going to make sense. Because let's face it, it's a big commitment for this particular office space. I signed a seven year lease, which is normal. They were asking for a 10 year lease and I was able to negotiate down to seven. And so it is a big commitment. And because I have this established practice and we've got a great reputation, the community here in South Florida and I know the numbers and I have an amazing team and we're really, we have that momentum, right? We have that traction. I know that we're going to be okay and we're going to be able to really grow into this practice, which was important to me. Another thing that was really helpful that I did the first time around and even, even more so this time was really identifying my ideal team members. We talk about ideal clients often, but before getting into your group private practice, think about who are the ideal team members that you want to partner with, that you would want to bring on and identify those people, establish those relationships beforehand. And really that is such a great part of having the foundation, because otherwise it can be really scary just creating this whole group practice. And you might get into the place of being desperate and accepting people who want to work at the practice, but maybe you don't feel like they're a great fit for your culture. And that's a mistake that I made the first time around is bringing some people on that really turned out to be not a great fit because I was worried about being able to pay all of the expenses and high overhead and everything that goes into running a group practice. Because there's a huge marketing budget. There's a lot of factors that, that just aren't a part of solo practitioners. So when you identify your team members and you really have those relationships established before launching, it really helps you know more of what to expect and can reduce some of that anxiety. And it makes it more of like a calculated risk so you're not just being super risky of, you know, signing this office lease. And by the way, a lot of, because we're in that seller's market now and the economy's doing, doing so well, most often the sellers are going to make you sign a personal guarantee, meaning that you can't just walk away from your business. You can't just decide to close down your practice and not be responsible for the overhead and the rent. So that's one of the things that was different this time around of having to sign that personal guarantee. And because I have a great team and we have our whole system and everything is in place already, I know that I would be comfortable signing that because I have that solid foundation. But just starting out, that would be definitely something that I would recommend is identifying your team members first, establishing those relationships, getting your onboarding systems down, having people to help, like my assistant, having her at the practice and training her on all of the new therapist onboarding systems and making sure that the people that you're finding and that you're wanting to develop those relationships, to have them be a part of the team, that they are going to fit with your values, your beliefs, your company culture. That's something that's so, so important in a group practice. And one thing I just want to.

B (21:28)

Add, and as you guys hear Kate talking, she really talks about the evolution like this is not, she's not creating this build out and practice from the get. And that's really important. A lot of times therapists kind of jump in a private practice without crunching the numbers. And, and it's a lot of speculation. And also too, if you really haven't grown a business, you don't know really how long it takes. So it's okay to start out small, it's okay to rent a room and then really understanding like what it is that you can do in your business.

A (21:56)

To be able to grow into that.

B (21:58)

And like you heard Kate talking about is then she had the actual numbers, she had the actual data. And when we make decisions based off on actual data. It's always a much more safer investment than kind of going haphazardly. And you know, I think that's a lot of times. I know that. But when I first rented private practice space, not knowing anything about business, I had to say to myself, what's the worst thing that could happen? And at the time, I forget how much the office was that I rented, but I said, the worst thing that could happen is I'm out $5,000 for the year. That's the worst thing that can happen. Can I handle that? Yes, I can. Okay, so that's like if I never saw a client, that's the worst thing that could happen. But really going through the process and being an entrepreneur and having that actual data really helps you make a better informed decision. And like Kate said, I mean, wow, 60% overhead, that's a lot. It's not 30, it's 60.

A (22:49)

One of the things that was surprising this time around with the build out is that because it is a seller's market now, they have a lot more power. I was able to negotiate a budget for the build out, but a good portion of that budget for the build out, for the cost of actually building and doing the construction and working with the architects and going through the permitting process that comes out of my pocket. So I also had to configure that not only did the cost go up 6%, 60%, but there's a huge expense for the actual build out. And that's not even talking about furniture and decorations and artwork and all of the design aspects and elements that go into a private practice. But when you're looking at a long term business, you can look at spreading those costs over time and really recouping that investment over time. I'm really invested in our group practice. It's like a family on our team. I love being able to have the best of both worlds with the private practice startup with Katie and then this group practice and all of the ways that we're able to help our community down here in South Florida. So being able to look at the numbers financially is important. Coming back to that Katie, and then also looking at the numbers for space, because that was one of the things that Michael helped me with when we were looking at, you know, we're looking at the office needs now, and my office is about 1500 square feet now we're expanding to 2100 square feet. And so when we were looking at, okay, well what are the sizes of the rooms now and how much square footage do we need and what would be the ideal growth that's going to be realistic? Because the cost of everything went up so high, I didn't want to get too much in over my head. And so having those numbers and then being able to work with architects who are specialized in being able to create the blueprints of the office and the foundation. And Katie and I last Friday were actually in the office doing some impromptu video recordings. Actually, in that are the framework. Yeah. Our group practice was just a complete open shell condition, wide open space. Now they're putting the framework in there and you can see they're starting to build out each office space and you can kind of see the vision of that start to come together. And this has been a huge learning curve for me because I had no idea what it was going to take. And all of the details and decisions and working with the architects and then actually submitting the design with having the contractor submit the designs to the city. That's been several months of waiting for the permits to get approved and that takes a really long time. And then they had to go back in for revisions and then. Yeah, there's just so many steps to this. So it's a huge process and a long journey. I've been working on this for the past 10 months and it's really exciting to see it all coming to fruition now. And this past weekend I was looking for office furniture. That's my favorite thing to do is going out and looking for the actual design elements. I always say that if I came back in another life, I'd probably be an interior designer because I have so much fun with that aspect of being able to look at everything that's possible for the design and really creating just a beautiful spa like atmosphere that everyone can feel so much more comfortable about. Coming to therapy and looking at all the different furniture and artwork and each room has a different theme to it and then being able to expense it, that's the exciting part. Right. So that always is a little bit that's fun for me. So the next step really would be hyping up the launch. Something that I've been doing has been I've been doing Facebook lives to kind of share the journey. I know I've been sharing that with Startup Nation. I'm sure some of you guys have seen those Facebook lives of taking you actually inside the office and talking about my journey and some of the struggles. And so you can see the actual development of our dream group practice here. So doing some Facebook lives, creating the hype, emailing your list it's so important to have a list so that you can start to hype up all of the excitement about the new office. And if you have room for new team members. We've been onboarding some new clinicians in preparation for the growth and also been making a lot of posts on social media and really hyping up that community both online and locally here in South Florida, talking about it and sharing it with people. People are getting so excited for the launch party that'll be happening in February. So by the time you guys are listening to this, I think this is the last podcast for the year. This year, there'll probably be another month or month and a half or so to go before we actually officially launch and have that launch party and invite everybody. So, yeah, it's fun to talk about the journey and I hope you guys have found a little bit of. Of just insight and I'm sure it's interesting to hear.

B (27:55)

Yeah. So if you're actually listening to this and you are local and you want to be invited to the launch party, why don't you just email us kateprivatepracticeroto.com and we can assure that you get a special invite for the launch to come. Check out the beautiful space. And if you haven't been in Kate's office before or know her design, she's really awesome at creating spaces.

A (28:16)

So.

B (28:16)

So even just going in last week, I could envision some of the things that she was creating. And she created a really new, cool logo. Love the colors. And if you're watching on video, a lot of the colors are similar to the picture in the background. There's a lot of blue in Kate's life, I have to say blue, turquoise, teal wave type thing. So I could totally envision that as we walk through that. But Kate, what do you want people to take away from what you're sharing today?

A (28:39)

What's most important? I mean, it's really follow your dreams. If your dream is to have a group practice, if your dream dream is to scale your business in some way, it's totally possible. There's a lot of help out there and a lot of resources that can help you make those dreams become a reality. Do the numbers, create the business plan. Do the work on the front end. Don't just have that field of dreams mentality which we talk about so often. If I build it, they will come. That's way too risky. It's really important to really do the preparation work on the front end. You guys hear me talk about how this has been a tip, 10 month process. I also didn't talk about the rebranding process. We've been going through and really working on our systems and processes and increasing our marketing budgets and preparation for this expansion because there's just so much preparation that I've been doing, having a whole new website, everybody's got, we've been investing in video and there's just so many steps that we've been working on for about a year in preparation for the actual launch of the new practice. So if you have a dream of, even if it's opening a solo office just by yourself or opening up your private practice and joining a team, whatever your dream is, it's totally possible to do that. And you're going to have the best success if you do a lot of the work on the front end and really set up, set that solid foundation for yourself. So when you're building the walls and the framework and then you're choosing the design elements and all of that, your practice really stands the test of time and you're able to really attract the clients that you love working with most. So, yeah, I guess that would be the takeaway.

B (30:25)

So some of the key points you talked about today were creating a business plan first, knowing who those right team members are and really kind of creating your ideal team member, finding the right group practice office space, working with the right professionals, outsourcing and really hiring experts. It's well worth its weight in gold. Designing the ideal office. So what it's like to work with architects, designers and things like that as well as. Well, once you're ready to launch and invite people to your new place, you gotta hype it up and you should be doing that as you go throughout your journey. So those are some of the ninja tips that Kate just dropped on you guys in regards to building a private practice office space. And if you're feeling overwhelmed by this podcast, remember, the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time. So wherever you are in the journey, you're doing great.

A (31:10)

And just take one thing, if you.

B (31:12)

Could just take one thing from this podcast and apply it and implement it.

A (31:16)

Perfect. So we hope you guys join us.

B (31:18)

Next week as we talk to Uriah Guilford. And I am stoked about sharing this podcast with you because we're talking about speaking of design, how to design your practice to run without you. So here we are talking about Kate building a group practice. Well, this podcast will be perfect for her because eventually she'll probably be stepping away, but it's perfect for all of us.

A (31:36)

So we hope you guys join us.

B (31:37)

Next week as we talk with Uriah about that. And as always, we wanted to say thank you for allowing us to inspire you from startup to mastery. And we wanted to say have a great day, Startup Nation.

A (31:49)

Yes, it was so fun. So thanks for having me on in this capacity. I hope you guys really enjoyed it and we'll look forward to seeing you on the next episode. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney app approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.