A (2:42)

Yes, today's sponsor is Gusto. If you are in private practice, you most likely wear a lot of hats. Some of those hats are totally great, but some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, not so great. Not the most fun hats. Right? That's where Gusto comes in. Gusto makes payroll, taxes and HR actually easy for small businesses. Fast, simple payroll processing, benefits and expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state and local taxes so you don't have to worry about it. Plus they make it easy for you to add on health benefits and even 401ks for your team. So let them wear one of your many hats. You have better things to do. Listeners get three months for free when they run the first payroll and you can also try a demo and see for yourself@gusto.com pps that's gusto.com pps and you can find the link in our show notes. All right, Jeb, let's dive in.

C (3:37)

Yay.

A (3:37)

We're so excited to have you here. And both Katie and I read your book Objections and we were blown away. We were really. It's been a couple of months since I read it and just this morning I was flipping back through it and I have probably highlighted half the darn book, dog eared all the pages. And I love the psychology behind objections. So tell us a little bit about what inspired you to write this particular book.

C (4:02)

Well, the story is beginning of the book I talk about. I was at the New York Mets doing what they call Jeb Unplugged. So teams will bring me in and put me in an auditorium or in front of a group of people and they can just ask any question at all and there's no preparation. Just send them over. And I spent about three hours answering questions from all these salespeople. And it turned out that almost every question was what do I do when people tell me no? I mean, they came in different forms. Right. But that's what people said. And it dawned on me that as I started thinking about all the questions that I get from people, whether they're in professional sales or they're in private practice, just trying to build out their Professional services, no matter where it is, people are really hung up on and they're mystified by what do you do when you get told no? And it's not just whether or not you're trying to sell something, but you know, can I get a raise or can I get something in my career or even sometimes just asking a family member to do something for you? We get hung up by no. So I dived into it and I'd written a book called Sales eq, which really gets into the psychology of selling and building out your emotional intelligence and how that works inside of sales. But I wasn't able, because of the size of the book, to give a lot of attention to this big hang up we have is we're asking for something and we have to sell. No, as Katie said that Jen Rome said this as well, that asking is the beginning of receiving. You can't get unless you ask. And it really all begins with that one discipline. But that's easy to say. You have to ask for what you want. The problem is as soon as you ask for what you want, especially if you do it confidently at that moment, there's this deep vulnerability that you feel. And in that moment of vulnerability, we typically step all over the person who is going to either say yes or no to us or worse, we anticipate that they're going to say no or we anticipate an objection. So we never ask in the first place.

B (6:04)

And now you're totally speaking the language. You just said vulnerability. We're all excited now. Now, Deb, I don't know if I read in your book because we're fanatical about marketing sales and information, but I remember hearing, and if it was your book, please tell me because I totally related to this. Like, for me, like the asking or the like even even asking, requesting something and waiting for an email back or picking up the phone. I had this like fear that people are going to yell at me. Like that was such, this like aha moment for me. And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Like, I don't like to offend people and I don't want to be yelled at. And that has prevented me a lot from just going after. And of course I do it in the face of fear anyway because it's really important. But I do see that that stops me. So what are some of the things that happen for us psychologically?

C (6:53)

Well, let's take what you just said and let's just think about your audience. So I'm a therapist, right? So I spend time with people. So to do this role. And my wife is a licensed mental health counselor. She's also, well, she's the same.

B (7:11)

Okay, that's awesome.

C (7:13)

So, but she's, but, but she's really empathetic. Like she can feel what other people feel. So the people that work in your world, that your audience, these are typically people who are high on the empathy scale. Does that make sense? So we say, well, you know, the empathy scale is a one that psychopath. Right. I feel nothing. Right. Or a 10. I'm hyper empathic. You know, I can feel the vibration of trees. Like most of us are sometimes somewhere in the middle of this. And the problem that we face is if you are high on empathy scale, say maybe a seven or eight, you're also incredibly sensitive to being rejected. And because of that it's very difficult for you to ask for what you want. So what we did in objections was provide you with some frameworks. Like one of those frames is allege. So when you get told no, how do you respond to that and how do you manage your emotions in that moment? Because when you think about this, especially people who are high on empathy scale and I'm more towards the other side, I'm more self centric, so I'm a little lower on the empathy scale, which is why I'm in the sales profession, because I can deal with rejection a little bit easier than most people. But if you're in that situation, if that's the case for you, then you have to be able to put together some basic frameworks that allow you to manage that. It's not okay to say, well just let it roll off your back. Which is what we say all the. But you can't rationalize with a fear of rejection because it's so ingrained in who we are. So if you're in this situation and you're sensitive to being rejection, just like rejection, just like Katie said, you have to start thinking about rejection in a different way. So there's three ways that human beings perceive or deal with rejection. One is we have actual rejection. So people can actually reject you. And if you're a therapist, you probably deal with people every day who have been really rejected. Like there's this deep enduring pain and that pain creates almost pst. Was it the post traumatic ptsd?

B (9:19)

There you go, you got it.

C (9:21)

If you've been deeply rejected by someone and it creates this gun shy moment, but most of the time when you're asking a client or you're upselling something, you're asking for something, you're not being rejected. We know what rejection feels like. Instead you're anticipating being rejected or you're perceiving that you're being rejected. But it's not the same thing. But it feels that way. So instead of rationalizing it and saying, well, just because it's not really rejection, you shouldn't feel that way. Let's just call it, it feels like rejection. And what are you going to do to get past it? How are you going to manage it? And it begins with one thing. It's learning how to ask with confidence, assertiveness and assumptiveness. And what I mean by that is because human beings respond in kind. In other words, because emotions are contagious, we transfer our emotions other people. What we find is the more confident and assertive and assumptive you are, the more likely it is that people are going to say yes. So essentially you take a lot of the rejection or the no's off the table just by being straightforward. The problem is when you are straightforward and when you are assumptive and when you are assertive, when you step into that place, you immediately feel vulnerable. So what happens is you say, well, if it would be okay, if maybe it would be fine, maybe we could get together, or maybe you would buy this, or you know, I don't want to be too, you know, too pushy, you. So you start coming across that way. And the paradox of asking right, is that when you try not to be pushy, you get rejected more. And when you're confident, you get rejected less. So part of it is gaining the awareness of that and understanding it and teaching yourself to ask with confidence. Ask assumptively, ask assertively. I'm not saying this is easy because it doesn't emotionally make sense to us, but when you ask with confidence, your win rate, the probability the person is going to say yes to you Is in the 70 percentile range. And when you ask weekly or passively trying not to be too pushy, your conversion rate for that ask is probably in the 30% range because emotions are contagious and because people respond in kind. So that would be number one.

A (11:36)

Yeah, I just love what you're talking about. And it makes me think about my own journey when I first started in private practice 13 years ago and not having that confidence and not really having no training at all with how to navigate a sales call, with initial clients, prospective clients that are calling, and having to figure out how to convert them, and managing my own anxiety, and then learning to speak with more Assertiveness and confidence and assume that they're going to say yes and that they're going to want to work with me. And then seeing my value. There's just so many things I had to overcome to be able to manage all of that. And then once I did, it was so much easier to convert collars. And that's something that so many clinicians struggle with. They're not taught any of this stuff in school. Clinicians go to school to become great clinicians. They don't have any of this information. And I love how you're speaking to the psychology behind it. And there's just so many situations where clinicians, especially on the phone, knowing how to answer the do you take my insurance or what do you charge? Being able to confidently state your fee without being like, well, my fee is 150, I guess, but if you can't afford that, I could drop it lower for you. And then you're just automatically offering the sliding scale, and they're not even asking for it. So there's just so many ways that this stuff manifests.

C (12:50)

You're exactly right. And what makes this even harder for clinicians is, is that you're selling you, right? So when you say, I'm $150 an hour, you're saying, I'm $150 an hour. So you start doubting whether or not you're actually worth $150 an hour. This is the game that you start playing in your head, and this is anticipating rejection. When you anticipate rejection, you worry. When you worry, and everybody on this call understands, fight or flight. You kick off fight or flight. When you kick off fight or flight, what happens is, little amygdala in your brain says, oh, we got a problem, right? Which is a social threat. Someone could not like me. Someone could say no to me. And that runs not through your neocortex, not the part of your brain that's rational. It runs through your autonomic nervous system, which kicks off this entire neurophysical response, which essentially at this moment, makes it so that you can't think. That's why when the person says, how much do you cost? You go, you're trying to figure out what to say because you can't think in that moment because you're worried that they might tell you no. And trust me, I get this because, you know, when I first started as a, you know, I run a pretty large training company now. When I first started was just me. And when I'm, you know, on the phone with potential people that are asking me to what I cost to come to their, you know, their group and speak, or their group and train. And I'm really good at dealing with objections because I've been doing this for 30 years. I found it difficult to confidently state my rate, to confidently say this is what I do, this is how I do it. Because it was me. It was not just they're going to tell me no to my rate, but they're telling me no. I don't value you as a human being. If you're high on the empathy scale, you're a clinician and you're dealing with that, you've got twice the amount of vulnerability. So one of the techniques that I use when I'm in those situations is called a ledge. Now this is what neuroscientists call the magic quarter second. We go back to just basic brain science. Now, I'm not as good as you guys are. You guys are PhDs and doctors and you've got all these acronyms behind your name. I'm just a dude that grew up in a dirt road in Georgia. But my basic understanding of the brain is that as soon as you get told no, or you anticipate being told no, or you perceive that you've been rejected, it's considered a threat by the brain, a social threat. Not a physical threat, but a social threat. But your brain treats both a physical and a social threat exactly the same way. It kicks off a neurophysical response which gets you ready to defend yourself. Moving blood into your muscles, oxygen rich glucose blood, which is why you breathe fast and everything tenses up. But at the same time, your body is moving blood away from non essential parts of your brain or your body. And one of those non essential parts of your body is the neocortex. Which is why when you are in a situation where you're dealing with potential conflict, you're dealing with potential objection, it becomes really, really hard to think because there's no blood up here. In other words, you are trying to deal with a potential objection, or a real objection with the cognitive capacity of a drunk primate. So you have to be able to get that back. And this is what neuroscientists call the magic quarter second. By the way. It's not any different than what you're already teaching your clients, right? Which means that you can feel the emotion, which you don't choose the emotion, the fight or flight response happens without your consent. It's being able to rise above it and choose your response. That's all you have to worry about. But the problem is in that moment, since it's hard to think, you don't know what to say. So instead of worrying about that, you create a ledge. So when someone says, how much does it cost per hour? How much does a session cost? Instead of going, well, abba, abba, abba, abba. Trying to think about what to say, you have exactly what you're going to say every single time. So if they say, how much does it cost you? Good, that's a great question. Or you could say, that's an important question. Or I'm glad you asked, but it's something that you've memorized, that you know exactly what you're going to say every single time. And that signals your brain that, uh, oh, we need to take control of this. We're going to get the neocortex back in executive control of our emotions. We're going to be confident and assertive about what we're going to say, and we're going to manage our, you know, our demeanor as we go through the process. So if you said, well, how much does it cost? I might say, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked. Does your insurance cover this? That's important that you ask that, whatever it is. But I've seen that, Katie, that's really important that you ask that. My session fee is $150 per hour and there's a minimum of five sessions required. And then, and this is important, you shut up. You don't say anything, right? And even though, like in your adrenaline soaked brain moment of everything falling apart, you got to put it on mute, sit on your hands or do whatever. Because they're going to respond. They're either going to say, can you do better than that? Or do you cover my insurance? Or I can't do five sessions, or that sounds great, can you schedule me in? But you have to manage that. But it begins with being able to get control over your emotions. And the ledge is the greatest. It's so simple, but it just works every single time. So in my business, I'm calling people. A lot of times my salespeople, I call people and we ask them to do business with us. So they're not even calling us, right? We're calling them. So we're interrupting their day. And they'll go, well, really? Too busy. We'll say, well, that's exactly why we called every single time. That's exactly why we called. That's exactly why we should get together. That's exactly. And when you use that ledge, immediately your brain gets triggered. Oh, okay, I get this. This is not being rejected. I can handle this. You rise above the emotion, choose your response, and you can respond in a confident, assertive, assumptive manner, which gives you a much higher probability of getting the outcome that you desire.

A (18:52)

Brilliant.

B (18:53)

Yeah. That's awesome. Everything you're saying, it's just like so validating and makes so much sense. And the beauty of what you're talking about is so reciprocal, not only for therapists to clients, but, like, even in their own practice. Right. And what we teach clients. And I love that you're talking about that whole thing. I remember when I had that aha moment of I had called a friend and I said, hey, I'm having a get together or whatever, but if you don't want to come, because I'm not really sure, you might be busy. You have four kids. And I realized, I'm like, am I inviting her or am I uninvited? Like, this is really confusing. And we totally do that. And I think the silence and the shutting up is so important. And even though probably people think like, Kate and I are like masters at what we do in our profession, you know, I still have anxieties about that. And I still have to close my mouth when I say the fee is this. And then I do. I wait and then see what they're gonna say, you know? But there is anxiety there when that happens because you don't know. Right. And it feels like if they say, oh, yeah, you're like, oh, another rejection. So this totally just is so in alignment of what's going on for us as therapists.

A (20:00)

Yeah.

C (20:01)

You have to also think about, like, if you, if the person, if you say my fee is this, and we're talking about fees, but there's other things that we have to ask people to do. But if you say that and the person goes, wow, that's a little bit too expensive, I don't know if I can handle that. Or, you know, or they really hem and haw over it. You have to ask yourself, is that the client that I want? Anyway, if I'm a clinician, I do this because I love to help people. That's why I got into this role, because I want to make people better. So is this a person that's going to stick with their therapy over the long haul? Are there a person that's going to go through the process with me so I can help them change their life? Or is the person that's going to come once Figure it's too expensive and then go away. And what do I really want? That's one of the questions I always ask myself in situations where I feel this vulnerability is what do I really want? Do I want to protect myself, or do I really want to help people? Do I want this or do I want that? It's that this or that type of moment. And when you ask yourself that question and you understand what it is that you really want, it becomes much easier to get over that hump.

B (21:09)

Very cool.

A (21:10)

I was just going to add that I've taken what I've learned from your book, Objections, and I taught it to my assistant. She takes all of the phone calls. So I've been out of dealing with managing phone calls and speaking with clients for a while now, and she handles all of that. But with the questions that people were giving her, she was seeing them more in, like, the rejection, oh, it's just not a good fit, or, oh, they're not able to afford, or, oh, they want to use their insurance. And once we were able to look at it from the objections view and being able to have that ledge, it's opened up a whole other dynamic, and our rates of converting callers has gone up tremendously because we're now able to better manage those. So it's just been really, really, really helpful. Jeb.

C (21:56)

Well, I'm glad to hear that, because that's the key, right? So if you can use the lead to get you and yourself in control, because it's really about emotional control, if we just take objections and we start breaking it down. So many of the techniques in the book are about helping you manage your emotions in the moment so that you can influence the emotions of other people. And if you're a clinician, you already know how to do this, because you do it every single day. When you're working with clients, you're managing your emotions in those moments so that you can influence the emotions of the other person, so you can influence the behaviors, help them make positive changes in their life. And it's just that when you get into the role where you have to build your business, that it's like all bets are off. Everything changes for you, even though it's the exact same behavior. And that's where, I think objections lead you into. So if you can manage the ledge, you can manage being confident, and you can manage shutting up. Then when people tell you, yes, no, or maybe you need to have techniques to deploy for managing that. So in this world, people are calling you. So first of all, they're calling you. If you were calling them, it'd be a different thing. They're calling you up and they're looking for help, then. Okay, well, let's just say they say, well, I don't really know, right. Or, you know, I can't afford that. Can you take my insurance? You need a framework for that. So we teach a five step framework in the book. And really in your world as a clinician, you only need four of the steps. And that is, how do you handle it when people say essentially maybe. Maybe is if they said no, they typically wouldn't be on the phone with you anymore. They go, no, click, and you're done, Right? So that's over. But if they're still on the phone with you and they're still having a conversation with you, then they're saying, you have to help me get past this. I'm afraid. I'm afraid that I'm going to make the wrong decision. I'm afraid that I'm going to spend my money unwisely. I'm afraid of being vulnerable with you. And I'm not sure I want to come in and talk about all the things that are wrong in my life. I'm already going through a divorce. I'm already going through mourning a death of a loved one. I'm going through some difficult moments with a child or with a family member or at work or what have you. I've got some issues in my life that I need someone to help me with. But I'm afraid that if I come to you, it's the wrong decision. So it's really fear. It's a human safety bias. The thing that you want to begin with is just relating to them. So this is your second lead. So your second ledge is. That makes a lot of sense to me. I completely understand where you're coming from. If I were in your shoes, I might be asking the same questions, which is a relate statement that I use all the time. I say if I were you because this is sincere. If I were them, I'd probably be asking the same thing. If I were in your shoes, this would be something that I would be concerned about. The next step is to make sure that you can clarify what they mean and isolate it. So when someone says, that's just a lot of. I always say, how do you mean? Because I don't know exactly what that means. So usually when they say that's a lot. If you know, if you're trying to build your business, you go, well, I could do it less for that, so you start discounting your rate. But that's not exactly what they mean. Help me understand what that means. Well, I went to another therapist before and it didn't work out for me. They don't mean it costs too much. They mean I don't want to spend money and have a problem that I've had in the past. So then I want to make sure that's the only problem. I don't want to deal with a whole lot of things. So I go, is that the only thing that's holding you back? Can we do your insurance or can we do this? And if they say that the next step is, and this is the most important one, is to minimize their fear, I would say that 90% of the time when you're dealing with an objection, especially with a new client objection, it's fear. It's fear that I'm going to make the wrong decision. It's fear of being vulnerable. It's fear of going and meeting someone new. And minimization doesn't say you're wrong. It doesn't say that there's something wrong with you. I validate the fear. It's okay to be that way. But what I do is I'm listening to them as I'm understanding, why did you call me in the first place? If I'm asking that question, then I take them back to the things in their life that are holding them back, the issues that are causing them pain in their life. And I bring those to the surface so that they understand that their fear, minimize their fear and maximize. We can help you get past these things so that you can be happy and content and that you can, you can live the life that you really want and get along with the people in your life the way that you really want to. That makes it a lot easier for people to get past that threshold. And that simple framework of relating, clarifying, isolating and minimizing gives you the power in that moment when your heart's racing and you feel like they're rejecting you, to help them get past their fear and make the right decision for themselves so that you can bring on a client that helps you build your practice.

A (26:55)

This is where therapists are so good at this process because they already have all of those skills. They use them every single day in the therapy room. The ability to join, using clients language, validate the experience, being able to clarify their goals, being able to summarize their pain points and really present back to them that picture of what it is that they're longing for. Most and how they could be the guide to help them get what they ultimately want. Like, that is. Those are all awesome skills that therapists already have. Katie and I love talking about this.

B (27:29)

Stuff we do, and it's so nice to. I mean, we're fanatical about it, and we're constantly telling the therapist this, but it's so great to hear you even outside the therapy world, to say this because we just realized sales, marketing, therapy, they're really all the same. Even hostage negotiation. I just read Chris Voss's book Never Split the Difference. And I'm like, it's all the same. So I love, love that you say that. That's awesome.

C (27:54)

Yeah, Chris. If you. That's a Chris Voss, but Never split the Difference. If you read his book, but you take objections and put it next to it, there's a lot of the same stuff. Is there? And I'd say that every person on this call, if you're a therapist or a clinician, you have studied this, you went to school and learned these things. It's just that when it's you, right? When it's personal, everything goes out the door because your brain starts playing tricks on you.

B (28:22)

Absolutely.

A (28:23)

Jeff.

B (28:23)

I'm just curious. I know we have limited time, but one of the other objections that we get, if it's a parent calling about their child to come into therapy or a part of a couple. So one of the other objections is something like, well, I'm not sure yet. Let me talk to my spouse. How would you handle something like that?

C (28:40)

So there's a couple of. Couple of things that I would do. So if you need both people there, then what I'm closing for is to get them both on the telephone. So I would say that makes sense to me because this is the big decision and for you to make real change, having your spouse with you is really important or having your child with you is really important. And I know that it's going to be really difficult to get them to buy into this experience. So why don't we do this? Let's schedule a call with me, you and your spouse, so that we can talk about this together and figure out whether or not this makes sense and I'm the right fit. And then I'm going to ask for a time. How about Thursday at 2? And the reason I would go for a call is because your time's valuable. To have everybody come in and have that conversation could take up a lot of time. Now, if you have time on your schedule, then what I'm going to say Is this, I'm going to say I know this is a big decision and I know it's tough to get your spouse together for you to come in and you've got a lot going on there. So why don't I help you? Why don't you and your spouse come by and see me. We can spend about 20 minutes together, I'll listen to you, we'll talk about what I do and we can make a decision from there whether or not this is the right fit for you.

B (29:55)

Right. And I love how your language is all very collaborative. We can make a decision together, we can identify if this is the right fit and it's important. And two, a lot of times when one partner or party is calling, they have their own fears about the perception of what their partner is thinking. Right. And so even in that, well, why don't. That's fine. I'm happy to talk to them. You know, you can have them give me a call. We could do this together. I definitely do that a lot to quell the other person's fears. And they have all these anxieties about what they're. One of the questions I always ask is that we are couples counselors, Kate and I is have you guys already talked about this? Are you calling me? And the other person doesn't know? Because I want to know what I'm dealing with. And from the get go, the question.

C (30:37)

I would ask, instead of saying have, have you already talked about this, I would say tell me about the conversation that you had. So I'm going to ask an assumptive question. They've already had a conversation, right? Because. Because if they haven't, I'll learn that. Right. And if they've had the conversation, then I'm going to get the whole story. If I say have you as a conversation, I'm going to get one word. Yes or no.

B (30:56)

Yes.

C (30:57)

Because if I hear the story inside the story, I learn, right. What's important to them. We go back to that, minimize their fear, then that's my case or my ammunition for dealing with their fear. So I'm going to default to more of a discovery or an open ended question in that moment that gets them talking to me. And the reason that I will go for it, let's get together and give them a time is because I'm looking for engagement. I'm testing, are they engaged? Are they for real? Are they just shopping or are they calling me because they need a lifeline? What is it? And I'm also testing for a micro commitment because you have limited time. And what I'm looking for is the person willing to take the next step with me. And another way of looking at that, are they willing to match my effort? Because I'm willing to put effort in there, but they're not willing to match my effort in order to get here. Maybe I need to go spend my time someplace else. Because you only have so much time during the day, you have to have billable hours so that you're building your business and you have to work on getting new clients in. And you want to spend your time and effort on your new clients that really are going to invest in the process.

B (32:09)

Yeah. Awesome. So, Jeb, what do you want our audience to take away one more time? What do you want our audience to take away most from your message today?

C (32:21)

The big thing is, this is human. This is emotional. Your fear of no, by the way, is much more biological than it is psychological. And we love to put the fear of rejection. The fear of no, we love to put it into a psychological box, but it's really baked deep into our DNA. And from your studies, you probably know that the way we deal with the feeling of rejection and the fear of rejection as an emotion is different than how we deal with other emotions, which typically happen in the limbic system. Much more of something that's in the brain. Whereas rejection and the feeling of rejection is much more baked into the neurophysical way that we deal with the world. So it's more biological overall. Understanding that, I think the awareness of that is important also understanding that it's your disruptive emotions, your feeling of vulnerability, your fear, your worry, your insecurity, your attachment to winning or being right, or even your eagerness, especially when you're starting off. Those disruptive emotions are the things that are typically getting in the way of you getting what you want. And for you just to start learning how to become rejection proof. Probably the most important thing that you can do is just to put yourself out there and start practicing. And if I could give you one thing is, like right now, the next phone call you get, the person who's asked you how much, just say the number and shut up. If you can practice doing that over and over and over again, you build obstacle immunity, which means that you start teaching yourself how to deal with it. It won't change the way you feel, because I've been doing this for 30 years, and when I ask for something, I still feel vulnerable. And I do this for a living, and I'm really good at it. I still feel that way I just don't respond that way. So you have to start practicing and practicing and practicing. And you're exactly right. Nobody taught you this in school. Nobody prepared you for that. You didn't choose to be to your profession so that you go sell stuff. You chose it so you could help people. But the only way that you can help people is learn how to sell stuff, which is you. And that's going to be the hardest sell that you ever make. I know that because I live in this world. I've stepped into your shoes, even though I do something completely different. And I know from practice, just like you said, that the one thing that made my business grow and changed the way that changed my income, changed my life, was learning how when people ask me how much I cost, because that's what they're asking, being able to give them a number and shut up. And I had to learn that through over and over and over again. Getting past that, well, I can maybe do it like this. I don't want to be too pushy. I had to learn that. Do that. And I think you'll find that you have, like you said, all the tools, but you'll start rising above this fear of rejection, and it'll change the shape of your practice almost overnight.

B (35:18)

Awesome. So state your price and shut up.

C (35:20)

Shut up. Just practice that right now. Like, just practice it. If you practice it, you'll get better and better at it.

B (35:26)

And I love that you said even though you've been doing this for 30 years, you still have that vulnerability and emotion. So that just totally validated me and actually gave me more confidence of like, hey, if Jen feels this way, I'm on the right track. So that's awesome. So some of just the things I wanted to summarize, I heard we talked about obviously, the psychology behind selling and objections. We talked about the ledge, which is really important to know. Jeb has said numerous times, set your price and just shut up. The five step framework, as well as practice, practice, practice. And even though you practice, practice, practice, the fear and discomfort doesn't really go away, but step into it anyway. So, Jeb, it's just really been a true pleasure to have you here. This was a fun, energizing, exciting podcast, especially because I just flew in from Vegas this morning on the red eye, so I haven't really slept. So I'm energized by this podcast and this was so great to have you here. So Startup Nation, actually, if you, number one, get the book, guys. And for those of you watching on video objections, check it out. It speaks our language. You guys will love it, I'm sure. And practice, practice, practice. I mean this is the stuff that's gonna help you guys get better. Also we have a client converting call script for you guys. We'll put that in the show notes page as well if you want a step by step process on how to handle that call, which we actually also talk about what's happening at each stage of the call. Empathizing, reflecting, summarizing, goal statements, desires, needs. So we talk about that in that as well. So next you guys are going to want to join us as we have Jane Carter. This was a three times a charm with scheduling things, tech issues. But speaking of fears, Jane is going to be talking to us and you about three fears that are holding you guys back in your private practice. So Startup Nation, we would love to know how much you love this podcast. So feel free to subscribe, rate and review and definitely I know I say this a lot but share with a friend or colleague. This stuff is so important and this is the stuff that's going to help you guys really stay in business because we already know that you're amazing therapist but it's this business skills, these business skills that is really going to help you stay in business and allow you to give your gifts to the world. So that's super important. Startup Nation, we had an amazing podcast with Jeb. We thank him again, get the book, shut up, pay your price and shut up and we'll see you guys next time. Thanks so much for allowing us to inspire you from Starbucks Mastery.

A (37:45)

See you next time. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork and so much more.

C (38:13)

Sam.