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Private Practice Startup Podcast
Episode 121: Immigration Hardship Evaluations and Practice Building
00:32:19
Juan Santos
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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to the Private Practice Startup, where we inspire you from startup to mastery. We chat with entrepreneurs, experts in the mental health and business arenas, and successful private practitioners to give you the tools needed to make your dream practice a reality. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, and so much more. Here are your hosts, Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux.
- [00:27]
B
Hey there, Startup Nation. Welcome back to another episode of the Private Practice Startup podcast. We are pleased you are joining us today, even with all of our tech issues.
- [00:37]
A
Oh, my goodness.
- [00:38]
B
We were supposed to start our podcast at 11am and it is now almost 11:25. So welcome to the world of tech and technology, which is usually not your friend. And then sometimes you go to like the thing that's like free, like your own earbud microphone that you got with your. And that's what seems to be working today. So we are going to roll with it. We hope you guys joined us last week because last week was a super special episode. We had Jeb Blunt of the book Handling of Objections and he talks to us on how to handle objections in private practice. So when we're talking about those things, these are the things like, well, it costs too much or I'm not sure or I have to speak to my spouse. So if you get stuck handling those, which I think probably we all do, that is a great podcast to listen. So you'll want to check that podcast out for sure. And if you're brand new to us, we want to say, welcome to the Startup Nation family. We have a gift for you. That is our A to Z cheat sheet, the essentials for building and growing your dream practice. You can grab that@privatepracticestartup.com, head over to the Resources tab and there you will see the A to Z cheat sheet. And that comes with five days of practice building emails to really help you get started. So today what we're going to be talking about is immigration hardship evaluations in practice. And Juan Santos had reached out to us. This is an area of specialty for him. He is a family man. He was originally born in the Dominican Republic and migrated to the US when he was seven. He lives in Greensboro, North Carolina and really his experience of moving into the US and going through immigration prompted his desire to help others and has become really interested in that. He shares with us that he's super curious and sometimes it gets him in trouble. Kind of reminds me of Curious George. He's an extrovert at heart and a lot of times his Friends and colleagues are like, whoa, Juan, hey, let's just hang back out here. And he really loves writing and he actually has published self help books aimed at addressing issues of anxiety. And we want to just join me in welcoming Juan. How are you, Juan?
- [02:43]
C
Great. Yeah. So, so happy to be here. Thank you so much for taking some time to lend us your ears. My name is Juan Santos, and yeah, I'm a psychotherapist in Greensboro, North Carolina, and the majority of my practice does work around the area of immigration evaluations.
- [02:59]
B
That's awesome because I love this area of specialty and niche, and Kate and I are crazy at talking about niche and actually some people. One of our recent coaches was very interested and I think I had given her. I know I gave her your information. I don't know if you guys had connected as of yet, but that was a really important area for her as well. And especially for our South Florida family folks and other folks who are in states that are very close to other countries where we have a lot of immigration, this is a really cool area to be able to specialize in. But before we dive into your topic, we want to just take a moment just to acknowledge one of our Startup Nation superheroes. And Kate will take it away.
- [03:34]
A
Yes. And before we do that, you know, it's so funny. We just get so used to talking on the podcast and diving in that we forget to introduce ourselves. So we are Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux of the private practice startup, and we are excited to have you guys here listening to us. And thanks for being here, Juan as well. We're so excited that you are one of our Startup Nation superheroes who reached out to us and you're in the thick of things. And we're inspired by the podcast and wanted to be on the podcast talking about your niche. So I can't wait to dive in. And we actually started, we were inspired by listening to Amy Porterfield's podcast, Online Marketing Made Easy. I love following her. Her work is really cool. And I was inspired listening to a podcast around the holidays where she has started giving shout outs to to her tribe who reaches out and gives either a testimonial or review. And it's a great way of just giving a shout out, acknowledging this person. And then Katie and I are so inspired by you guys. And when you guys share how we've helped you, it just inspires us to continue on this journey of really trying to provide the best quality products and services to really meet your needs. So with that being said, we wanted to give Aileen of Therapy Terrace Counseling a shout out. She had privately messaged me over the holidays and shared this really meaningful message. I just want to read it to you guys real quick, she says. After God, I credit Private Practice Startup for my business success. I literally followed the A to Z cheat sheet word for word. I'm so grateful for you both in the podcast. You both have inspired me to believe that I could do this and now I can't imagine anything else. Thank you for inspiring my dreams. And so that was something that just blew us away and we loved hearing it and we wanted to give Aileen a shout out. So if you're interested in getting a shout out and want to share some of the love, please send us your rave reviews. It's definitely something that inspires us to keep going along this journey. Now let's transition into our sponsorship message for this episode. When it comes to keeping your practice organized, you want software that's not only simple, but the best. And we highly recommend TherapyNotes. Their platform lets you manage notes, claims, scheduling and more. Plus they offer amazing unlimited phone support and email support so that when you have a question, they're really there to help. Get started today with the practice management software as trusted by over 60,000 professionals. Go to therapynotes.com for your free trial and if you enter the promo code pps, as in Private Practice Startup, they will give you two months to try it out for free. And and if you want to know more, you can definitely listen to our episode 54 with Brad Kleiner to really understand the ins and outs of therapy notes. And without further ado, let's dive into today's episode. So Juan, tell us a little bit about what inspired you to become a therapist and really specialize in this particular niche of immigration.
- [06:31]
C
To become a therapist, I think most of us hit home when it comes to helping people. I grew up in a household where we had a lot of kids. My sister Diane, she is on the autistic spectrum. So we always had just different professionals in the home. And I love that. I still do love what they do. Come in, take her out into the community and provide support. So I knew that through school I wanted to help, I wanted to support people and I wanted to have conversations because, fun fact, I like to talk. So why not become a therapist? There's just a small part there, some humor.
- [07:06]
B
But I thought we were supposed to listen, Juan. I thought that was the show.
- [07:10]
C
We do listen. We do talk a little bit, right? And going into immigration, I am from the Dominican Republic and my Family came here, and I love the U.S. there's so many opportunities, so many blessings, being able to truly say that you can go to school and it can change your life. Where? In the Dominican Republic. There, it's a third world country. You're not even through schooling, you're still not able to do that. And I fell upon immigration evaluations that field by having a client reach out on behalf of the attorney. And that's really what sparked it. They said, hey, can you do this for me? And being the helper that I am, I said, yeah, sure. Let me just communicate with your attorney and kind of figure out what this is all about. Because through schooling, we figure out how to do psychosocial assessments, evaluations. And I figured it was something around that ballpark. So that's kind of where it sparked that first client, where everything began to roll.
- [08:07]
B
Very cool. And so I know when we were talking previously, before we started the podcast, you had said that you knew you wanted to go into private practice out of graduate school, and you graduated in 2014. So did you jump right into doing the immigration stuff or that kind of manifested over time? Did you know you wanted to do this?
- [08:25]
C
Knew I wanted to do something in immigration. I didn't know 100% of what it entailed. Just like I know I wanted to do, let's say, cbt. But through grad school, I didn't know entirely what it meant. You know, what it's like to be there with a patient and work through from step one all the way to step Z, where they're exiting the practice. With my first patient, it was around September. I graduated in May, started in private practice right away when I got my associate license. The clinician that was over me, a beautiful, strong woman. Her name is Dr. Robin Dock. She was able to support. She had a background in custody evaluations. She had a background in being like, okay with working with attorneys, which I think sometimes as clinicians, as counselors, we get really nervous when it comes to that, to working in that legal field. She took me under her wing. I said, hey, this is the client I'm working with. And then she helped me out. Okay, this is how you want to write the evaluation. This is what you want to do. And I'm very blessed to have had that support. And then from there, of course, I reached out to the attorney, to the client, and that was the first patient. And then it just continued to grow and to grow.
- [09:33]
A
Tell us a little bit about the services that you provide for immigration evaluations. And do you provide Therapy as well.
- [09:40]
C
Well, with immigration evaluation, we have as clinicians, we have counseling, right? So we have psychotherapy, then we have evaluations. We don't want to mix those, of course, because, you know, ACA not having that dual relationship, mixing clinical work with evaluation, now that will be in this field here in immigration is entirely evaluation. Someone will come when they're working with an attorney and they're navigating that process for different type of cases. As an example, one case could be a U visa. That's where a crime has happened to that individual. A different case could be a hardship waiver. That's where, let's say if I, Juan, am a US citizen and then uk you are undocumented and you're living here, then we will go to an attorney where that person will help us allow you to have legal status, be able to stay here in the US and not have to go back. And there's more details to it, but that's like the big picture of it. Now we would go see this clinician, the one that's going to write the evaluation, and they would try to go into our mental health to discuss, okay, what's going on with this person, what's their diagnosis, what, what's the impact of them going back to their home country? Overall, what type of just big picture change is going to happen? And then as clinicians, we would write that in the evaluation so that could support them through their legal proceedings and being able to show validity or proof, some sort of weight to why this individual should remain in the US and then how, if they were to return home, that could cause emotional hardship to that individual and their family system.
- [11:09]
B
So what is really our role in the immigration evaluations?
- [11:13]
C
Our role would be to work with the client, ask them structured, unstructured questions, provide psychometric testing such as the Beck anxiety, Beck depression. Using that information, we will write some clients, call it a letter. Overall, it's an evaluation where you would discuss the person's current emotional state and then what would happen if they had to leave the US and how that would impact their emotional state there. So you do have that potential, right? Because not 100%. Now remember, that would be with one of the cases that would be with the hardship waiver. It's a little bit different if this was a different case. Now with a case that has to do with crime, such as a U visa, the one mentioned earlier, the individual would have experienced a crime here in the US now the individual is undocumented. So if I, Juan, were undocumented and I Went to a bank and someone approached me with a gun and I had a traumatic experience. Based off of that, I cooperated with a US Authority, with the police system. Then I would go to the attorney who would say, okay, you qualify for a U visa, which can allow you to remain here in the US with legal status, but part of that is proving some sort of emotional or mental health impact. Then that's where we, as the clinicians would jump in and provide that evaluation. We look at what took place and then how that impacted that individual and we write a report based off of that evaluation that gets submitted to the attorney.
- [12:39]
B
And are there other types of immigration cases as well?
- [12:42]
C
There are. There's the U visa, the vawa, Violence Against Women's Act. Now that one stands for, you know, just as Violence Against Women's Act. And it could be if someone's in a relationship. What we see in these relationships would be someone's coerced or manipulated, you know, telling the individual, hey, you have to stay here or I'm going to tell ICE or I'm going to tell the police that you're undocumented. It could be domestic violence. And then the attorney will jump in to provide that evaluation. There's a T visa, victims of trafficking, there's a cancellation of removal. There's asylum, which a lot of times we do hear the asylum one. It's one of the louder ones. Now here in North Carolina, I primarily work with the ones that are the trauma related ones like the U visa, the VAWA, and, and the extreme hardship, which is the one that I mentioned earlier.
- [13:31]
B
Very cool, Kate, I know you had a question.
- [13:34]
A
Yeah. I was curious. Do you provide evaluations as 100% of your services? Is that your niche and you're sticking to it and you've filled your practice with that service or do you also have other services. Well, that you provide? I was just kind of curious about your own practice.
- [13:49]
C
I provide relationship support, so marital counseling to premarital work. That's about 50% and then the other 50%. And it's interesting enough, it started like around 10% and just continues to grow year after year with the immigration side. And I think partly that's due to being bilingual, speaking English and Spanish. Very thankful, very blessed to have that upbringing where I'm able to provide individuals with that dual support.
- [14:15]
B
And is this the couples that you work with? Are they like immigrant couples usually, or.
- [14:20]
A
This is kind of separate.
- [14:22]
C
This is kind of separate, yeah. That would be more just individuals that could be here in the US it could be immigrants. But that one's not specific to the immigration evaluation.
- [14:34]
B
Two part question, how do you get your referrals? And then how does the whole evaluation process go? Like, how many sessions is it? Is it X amount of hours? Share with us about that.
- [14:45]
C
Okay, so just heads up, be ready to listen because I may go for a little bit here. Feel free to stop me with getting referrals. It's like any other field in mental health. We want to build a relationship with X person here. We want to build a relationship with the attorneys because the attorneys are the ones that are going to help that individual navigate through the process. We jump in once we receive the referral from the attorney to provide an evaluation for the type of visa that we're working with. So early on, what I did, being the extrovert that I am knocking on doors, old school, like literally going to the businesses and saying, hey, my name is Juan Santos, I'd love to work with this individual. And I know that I'm thinking, Juan.
- [15:25]
B
Like, hi, I'm Juan Santos. I'm here to sell you a vacuum. Maybe that's what you were thinking, your door knocking like a. Like an old school salesman, right? I love it.
- [15:33]
C
That's funny. There was another podcast I heard that on where someone started with selling vacuums.
- [15:40]
A
Joe. It's Joe Sanock. That's part of his story. He did that for a little bit of time. That's so funny that your mind went there, Katie.
- [15:47]
B
Well, actually my mind went there because I'm reading a book on sales right now. It's Human to Sell or something like that. And they talked about the death of the, you know, a knocking on the door salesman. So I just love that you just went knocking on doors to attorneys, which, like you said, a lot of people are kind of, you know, uncomfortable. I guess I'm lucky. I have so many attorney friends that and I work with a lot of attorneys, so it's interesting. So you're knocking on doors.
- [16:09]
A
It can be really intimidating to go in and to build relationships from scratch and try and get in with the gatekeeper, the office manager or the receptionist, assistant, whatever they're called in the law offices, and then to get through to the actual attorney. I'm curious about what have you found.
- [16:25]
C
Helpful in that process with the process of marketing? What I found helpful is when you reach out to an attorney, focus on the paralegal. That's the one who's going to have a really great relationship with the attorney. And it's like, I love watching the office. I watch it over and over. But the paralegal is the Pam of the office. What also works is creating videos of you discussing the immigration process when you work with the client. So then you don't, if you're introvert, you don't have to go to the office. And in these videos that you create, this is you talking about how you would do the evaluation, what the work is. And then you send that over to the attorney, sending something that's like a step by step sequence. So create step one, do this, step two, do that, and then giving that to the paralegal or to the attorney so that when they have a client coming in, they're just going, okay, this is exactly what I need to do. And I think most people, they, they prefer for you to tell them exactly what to do versus kind of going, how do I refer this person over?
- [17:21]
A
I have to chime in and say that is a hashtag major ninja tip that you just offered. That is awesome because you would be saying the same thing over and over and over again, like a hundred times over again or more as you're introducing yourself. To have that video already made and to be able to share. That is genius. That's an awesome ninja tip, you guys.
- [17:43]
B
And you know, I just love hearing you talk because you are someone after our own hearts and what we talk about in marketing. And I'm just so curious, like, how did you. I know we're kind of moving off the topic, but how did you learn all this stuff about marketing? Because this is what takes years for people to understand and learn.
- [17:59]
C
Reading. I hate reading in like middle school, elementary. I remember my mom reading my first chapter book and I cried. She brings it up now. But now I read like I read books on marketing. I listen to the podcast like yours, other podcasts and that just gives me tons and tons of knowledge. And then I make sure that when I, when I learn something, I implement it. Because I know that when we go in and we're like at a conference and we're like, heck yeah, I'm learning all this stuff. And then you go home and you're like, what did I learn? So it's just getting the information and putting it into play.
- [18:33]
B
Yeah, well done. And I love the way that you use both your extrovert side and you speak to the introverts of. Is this uncomfortable for you? Because here's the thing, whether it's therapy or whatever we do, we are repeating the same thing to our ideal client over and over. And what a great introduction. And the really cool Thing is, when Kate and I actually requested invited to podcast guests who were authors to come on to our podcast, we did videos. And people aren't doing videos. And again, video also. Talk about marketing and branding. It really sets you aside and makes you memorable. You know, it's not just another person who wants some of your time. You're just saying, hey, here's some information. You're probably busy, but you know, you might have a need. And here's how I would do it. And they're like, I really like this guy Juan Santos. Maybe I'll reach out. And then it becomes easier because it's not like a hard sell and you're not interrupting someone's time. So I could go off on a tangent on marketing. This is your podcast.
- [19:21]
A
Yeah.
- [19:22]
B
Let's get back to the step by.
- [19:23]
A
Step process and how. Cool. Because they can listen to it on their own time. They can share it with your attorney colleagues and friends. Like, hey, listen to this dude. He's a great resource and offers a great service. Might be useful for you. That is so cool. So, Juan, you talked about how this is something that's been really helpful for you in terms of building the referral relationships with attorneys, getting in with the paralegals. What else have you done to really build your specialization here? With immigration, what else has helped with the marketing?
- [19:54]
C
With marketing specifically, one other thing that I do is, and I encourage individuals to do, you're going to have an evaluation now, like psychotherapy or any kind of work that you do, you have a style to do it. I encourage individuals to create some sort of template, like a write up. Right. Don't put anything confidential on there and then send that over to the attorney so that. So that you're almost selling yourself saying, hey, if someone works with me, this is what you're going to receive. Because at the end of the day, when we do the evaluations, we want to collaborate, want to work together. So I want to show the attorney, hey, this is what I have. You want their insight. Because I didn't go to law school, they went to law school. And the client needs support from both ends, just like the client will need support with a psychiatrist for medication management and a psychotherapist for treatment or therapist.
- [20:40]
B
Very cool.
- [20:41]
A
That's awesome.
- [20:42]
B
So once you get a referral, so.
- [20:43]
A
Take us through that process.
- [20:44]
B
So the attorney, I assume most of the referrals from our attorneys or our clients actually specifically searching you out, it's about 60, 40.
- [20:52]
C
Now there is the word of mouth. One of the things that we want to consider is individuals that seek this service are undocumented or in the community, the subculture of being undocumented. So they do know each other. And then with that, making sure that you are professional, you're kind of, you're supportive, so then that client can lead to others. About 60, 40, 60% are referrals from attorneys, the other 40 from the patient. Now, once the patient. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
- [21:21]
B
No, I was going to say, I can only imagine for your specific population how when we talk about like even just clients coming into therapy for the first time, if they've never had therapy, there's a level of anxiety they have. But I can imagine how even bigger that is for your clients because I'm sure the fear in the back of their mind is, oh my God, I'll get deported, right? If someone knows that I'm here, not legally, I'm going to be deported. And so it takes a huge act of courage to be able to say, hey, I need help. And for the professional to be able to guide them step by step, what to expect to really reduce their anxiety is so important.
- [21:55]
C
I am a clinician that sits in a session and then I am not afraid to cry with a client. It is so difficult. There was. And I don't want to go on a tangent, but I'll just share with you based off of the point that you brought up during about a year ago, whenever ICE was really strong here in my community, I had patients reach out and say, hey, I'm not gonna be able to come because there's a lot of stops near where I'm at. There's also the stigma or of course, the culture where as Hispanics, Western society holds a much stronger educational value around mental health compared to the Latino community. So when individuals come in for this service, I'm explaining from the root up, I'm explaining what mental health is, what counseling is, what an evaluation is providing the entire education versus just less, I guess.
- [22:46]
B
And I can't say that point is so important because I want you guys to imagine yourself at a doctor's office, right? Like say, for example, you go in and you're told you have a lump or something like that. And the doctor comes in and he or she just does whatever he or she does. They don't really tell you, they don't talk to you or they speak in jargon that you don't understand. Like that's extremely anxiety provoking. So Kate and I also talk about everything that you do as marketing. Right. So how you explain the step by step process really helps to make them comfortable, really builds that relationship. It's all part of the rapport and being able to educate them. I know working in. I used to run programs where our referrals were from child protective investigation. And so I would tell clients when I would have to report abuse. This is what's going to happen. I'm going to do this with you. Number one, we're going to walk step by step. This is what you can expect. This is probably what they're going to ask. They're probably going to refer you to services, but you're already seeking me. And it just really created a very collective, collaborative environment that allowed us for the majority of my clients to continue to work together. So I think that's important, whether, you know, you specialize in immigration or something else, is being able to explain that step by step process, especially with people, this is their first time. So when they come to you, how does that all go? Like, you know, pretend we're the client, so explain to us how it would work.
- [23:59]
C
So if you're the client, you're more than likely, if it's at 40%, you're going to reach out to me. And this is where we go back into the lack of education within that subculture. They're calling and they're saying, hey, Juan, I'm working with my attorney and I need a letter. It's for immigration, right? And in my head, I know what they're saying. They're saying, I'm working with my attorney. I'm either in a VAWA case, a U visa, a hardship waiver, and I need a psychological evaluation to support me through the proceedings of this case, right? In that language, the option B I gave you is so much different than, hey, I need a letter. And that kind of gives you a step back and say, well, wow. We as a community need to support individuals or documented to have a stronger grasp of education. So they're able to be advocates for themselves, if you will. Now, from that point, I explain everything from A to B, and I speak with different colleagues on why I do that. My goal at that point is not to get a patient. If they want to go with me, great. If they feel that my prices are too high, that's fine. My goal is to provide them with education so that if they do call someone else, they know what to ask for, they know how to advocate for themselves, they know the entire process. So I break down from step one. We're going to go into an evaluation, getting to know each other. I'm going to ask a lot of questions about what the process is like for you. I'm going to ask questions about your home country, what that was like, your migration process, how did you get here, obstacles you've overcome. Also going to communicate with your attorney through a release of information to be able to receive any collateral information, just any third party information that can support this evaluation. My sessions typically are three to four sessions, and I like to do three to four sessions versus one long one, just to have more rapport with the client. And I've learned that through attorneys, which is kind of like a trial and error over time. The attorneys have shared that the evaluations that have two or less sessions don't do as well than the evaluations. I have three to four sessions and then that's information that I utilize to support my clients.
- [26:02]
B
And are the sessions like two times a week or.
- [26:06]
C
I spread the sessions out individually so it would be. It could be two times a week. It'll be one time every other week, one time a month. Because we do have to go into fees there. If they're able to afford that a month, that amount per week or per month they last. Go ahead.
- [26:22]
A
I love how you position yourself as being just so genuinely helpful and ensuring that the people that you speak with that are potential clients, potential referral sources, you want to make sure that they're an informed consumer. You take that time to help them understand what to expect with the whole process and what that's going to be like. Even if they can't afford your fee, you could refer them to someone else who could. It's just that position of being genuinely helpful. And even if that person can't afford you, they can still be a great marketing source for you in terms of the word of mouth referrals. And so that position of just genuinely being helpful really does work so well. And I'm sure as you do that you're also building rapport and they're seeing you really as the expert who can help them ultimately get what they really want. So even if it is something that's out of their price range, I'm sure that you have better success converting people that way too. Just wanted to acknowledge that because that is really important.
- [27:19]
C
Thank you. Yeah, it's a spinning image of what you both do here. Right. But it does help. There's been as many times where I do see someone come back or I'll see that someone who I did provide the education for and decided to go somewhere else. That someone they knew was referred.
- [27:38]
B
Awesome I'm sure Startup Nation is wondering, like, how much do you charge for this whole evaluation packet? What would be an average?
- [27:46]
C
I started charging when I first began 800, and then now it's at 1100. I did some market research. The prices range between 500. It's across the US all the way to about 1250. My fees, I look at the time I spend with the client, the time I write, because my evaluation is typically about 10 to 20 pages. Wow. I also look at the time that I have to do translation, the time that I communicate with the attorneys, because I do bug attorneys. So I try to have a lot of conversations with them because they're also during that team. It's me, the attorney, and the client.
- [28:21]
B
Very cool. Well, I wish we had more time to really talk about this. And I know that we kind of went on some tangents because you're just speaking our love language, which is marketing. And it's so cool just to really hear your own experience. And graduating in 2014, knowing that you wanted to go in a private practice, really diving into learning and implementing. I think that's so important. And, you know, it's funny, as I hear you talk about your story about reading, I have my own, which I didn't become a reader until, like 2015, but I'm avid reader now and really love to learn, obviously a lot about marketing and sales and implementing that. So, you know, for those of you who are listening to this podcast is even though you may have joined this podcast to really understand the immigration stuff, I think Juan just gave a lot of great things that are consistent through branding and marketing your business overall. It doesn't matter what niche you're in. So that's really important. And I know, Juan, you actually offer a course on how to actually help therapists become specialized in this area. Can you share a little bit about that? And I know you have an opportunity for them as well.
- [29:21]
C
Yeah, thank you for asking about that. The course helps clinicians, whether you are novice, you're just getting started, or you've been doing it for a while. It provides starting working with a client from beginning to finish, beginning to end. It provides understanding of how to do each of the type of cases that you may work with. It goes into marketing, a lot of marketing education, so you're able to begin your practice and sustain it over time. And then it teaches you how to write different type of evaluations based off of the cases you're working with.
- [29:51]
B
That's awesome. And, you know, I'm a big proponent of if you want to do something, hire a mentor coach and do it right the first time, right. So you don't have to waste time, energy and money. So if you are listening to this podcast and this is really of interest to you, I would definitely recommend checking out Juan's course and so they can find that where Juan, they could find.
- [30:09]
C
That on my website. But I'm also, if you'd like, I can send over a Link and offer 20% off the course and I'll send that directly to you if you want to put it wherever you put this information on your site.
- [30:22]
B
Yeah, we'll put that right on our show notes page. So we'll put all of that information on our show notes page so you guys can grab that for yourself. So Juan, it's been such a pleasure. We're really happy that you reached out to us and shared your information and knowledge with the love of your specific population and niche as well as your love of marketing. So we hope you guys join us next week for a podcast with Gordon Smith. We had the pleasure of meeting Gordon back in October of 2018 where we did what we are now calling a pop up networking. We had the pleasure of not only meeting Gordon, but many other therapists in Asheville, North Carolina as well as meeting John Clark, Laura Mong and Allison per year. So that was awesome. So Gordon, very similar to what Juan's story is, Gordon had just binged on podcasts and really then honed the understanding of niche. So he's going to be talking about how niching filled his practice. So he went from, I believe, generalized to very specific niche and how his journey and what results he has obtained from that. So we hope you guys join us next time for that and I think that does it. So thank you guys for allowing us to inspire you from startup to mastery. And we will see you guys next time.
- [31:34]
A
We'll see you on the flip side. Thanks again, Juan. That was awesome.
- [31:37]
C
Thank you. Take care.
- [31:39]
A
Bye guys. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork and so much more.
- [31:53]
B
SA.