A (2:55)

Yes. Hey everybody. Welcome back for another episode. We wanted to take a moment to do our Startup Nation superhero shout out and we were just really touched by Edvardo Archer and him taking the time to give us some really positive feedback and it's something that inspires us every single time. Here's what he said. Just wanted to take a moment and thank Private Practice Startup for their contribution they have made to my private practice success. I've leaned heavily on listening to their podcasts and participated in the coaching group Inspire to help me navigate the launch of my own private practice. Kate, Katie and their team are life changers. So Edvardo, thank you so much for sharing that. You are such an inspiration to us as well. And if you want to have a Startup Nation superhero shout out on our podcast, definitely give us some love with reviews and testimonials wherever either on our Google review page, Facebook page. We so appreciate you guys taking the time to do that. Even when we get an email from you guys every now and then we get these awesome inspirational emails with you guys sharing the love of how we have impacted your private practice journey.

B (3:59)

Thank you for especially when we're having not a great day. Those are so perfect in our email box, for sure.

A (4:04)

It's always great to get the positive feedback from you guys and to know that what we're doing is really making a difference. Because on our end we're just speaking here into the mic and kind of like putting it out there in the universe and then you guys listen at a later date. It's always good to know that what we're doing is working. Let's transition and take a quick break from our sponsor, which is Gusto. If you're in private practice, you definitely wear a lot of hats and some of those hats are totally great, but some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, not so great. Wah wah. That's where Gusto comes in. They make payroll Taxes and hr. Really easy for small businesses. They have fast and simple payroll processing, benefits, and expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state, and local taxes so you don't have to worry about it. Plus, they make it easy for you to add on health benefits and even 401ks for your team. So let them wear one of your many hats. You have way better things to do. Listeners get three months for free when they run the first payroll. Try a demo and see it for yourself@gusto.com pps as in private practice startup. That's gusto.com pps what's up, Gordon? Nice to see you again.

C (5:18)

Yeah, you too.

B (5:20)

Yeah, I think it's really rare that we actually get to meet our podcast guests face to face first and then online.

A (5:28)

So that was really cool.

B (5:29)

So it was so great meeting you in October and connecting with you and I really loved your story and I'd really love for you to share your story about your journey in private practice and how you niched and take it away.

C (5:40)

Yeah.

B (5:40)

Yeah.

C (5:41)

Well, I really appreciate y', all first of all showing up here and throwing that pop up event. I think There were like 25 therapists that showed up on 48 hours notice to kind of come together. And with y' all and with Alison Pereir and Joe Sanock, I think was. Was it Joe who?

A (5:59)

John Clark.

B (5:59)

It was John Clark. And Laura Long.

C (6:00)

John Clark. It was John Clark. And it's interesting because y' all were a big part of my transition into the niche that I'm a part of now. When I was going through that transition a couple years ago on the treadmill at the gym, listening to private practice podcasts and kind of figuring out how to do that, that's when I first encountered y'. All.

A (6:23)

I love hearing that. It all comes full circle.

B (6:26)

And if you guys didn't know Gordon was from North Carolina, the y' alls would totally go away.

A (6:32)

Yeah, my Southern accent may come out in this podcast. I don't know.

B (6:40)

Yeah. What did you learn from listening? So I know you listen to other podcasts as well. So what. What clicked for you and then what did you start doing?

C (6:48)

I think that what clicked for me was that there's. That this is something that a lot of people are doing and that it's really doable. It's not some mystical, arcane set of skills or abilities that you have to have. If you're a competent clinician who's got the gumption to work hard, then it's something that you can do.

B (7:13)

Very cool.

C (7:14)

It took away that mystique of, oh gosh, how do people kind of fall into these niches and is it doable? And by limiting my caseload, am I going to crash my business? And it took away some of those fears.

A (7:28)

That's awesome. Entrepreneurship is definitely a learned skill. And so many clinicians really have that fear of niching and have to do a lot of work on their mindset to believe that, okay, if I niche, I'm actually going to be able to do my best work and it's going to create this ripple effect and I'll be able to fill my practice with the clients we love. So tell us a little bit about your experience and journey through that niching process with the gifted testing that you do.

C (7:54)

Yeah, Well, I was 10 years or eight years rather, in agency land. Various kind of agency jobs, taking my split and dealing with lots of admin and structural issues that I couldn't exactly. That I couldn't really alter in a way that would have made me feel fulfilled in that administrative kind of non clinical part of my work. And so when I went into private practice, the agency I'd been at actually folded. And so I started private practice with a full caseload, which is pretty unusual, but it was with all of these insurance clients. I was on 13 different insurance panels and maintained that for some time. I know.

B (8:45)

I just, I got jokes today. So I'm thinking 13 different insurance panels, it's like dating 13 different people with all these different needs that you're trying to please all the time. Probably just can't get it right. Just saying.

C (8:55)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I hired a biller to do it to run a lot of that interference for me. But then there's, you know, there's another big chunk that is going out of my private practice. It saved me some headaches and allowed me to zero in on my practice. While I was doing city council, I was also doing full time private practice. It was essentially having two full time jobs. And during that time I kind of had my private practice on autopilot. In a lot of ways. I was plugged in with some medical doctors. The referrals were pouring in all based on the insurances that I was accepting at the time. And so my reimbursements were not at a place where I was going to be able to grow retirement or be able to invest in some of the things that I knew were going to be important for my wife and I and the life that we wanted. And so In October of 2016, I got a 30 day notice to vacate my office. They'd sold the suite of offices that I was leasing in. And so it was at that time I was trying to decide what to do with the political career and just kind of, it was time to do a whole life reexamination. And part of that was with my practice. And at the time I was still keeping paper calendars and I had this stack of eight years of paper calendars and I just sat down and I read through them and pulled out the names of the people I felt like I did my best work with. And then I asked myself, what do these people have in common? And it jumped right out that they were all gifted individuals. And this was where I was feeling the most energy and doing my best work as a clinician. So I did a little further research and discovered this enormous body of literature and research into gifted personality development, developmental theory, understood suddenly that there were these organizations, locally, state, national, international, that were focused on this demographic which is about 2.1% of the overall population.

B (10:56)

And I just want to repeat what you said. So for those of you who are trying to find a niche or struggling with a niche, I love that's an activity right there. A very specific exercise is asking the people that you love, what do they have in common? I love that you did that. I was right there with you going through that. Eight stacks, eight years of stacks of calendars. And that's such a great question to ask yourself. So if you are struggling with a niche or want to niche down even further, really just apply that. Awesome. Very cool.

C (11:23)

Yeah. And that's the thing is just to be able to focus on where your strengths are and just observe that as it emerges.

B (11:31)

And I love that you talk about strengths too, because Kate and I also talk about our natural talents, even in marketing and strategy. And you know what, what's really interesting is I've continued to fall in and adopt my own supernatural talents and allow them to be what they are. It's just really easy to be like, no, I'm not good at that. Yes, I'm good at that. Yes, I'll do that, because I'm good at that. And I found myself, interestingly enough, I had a. I met up with a local attorney who's running for mayor and I've known him for quite a while. And we were just meeting and I got started talking about marketing and sales and communication and I was just realizing like, I gotta shut myself up, you know. And it's funny because it's like, ah, like There it is. There's the excitement. That's what I love. That's what inspires me. And he even said he's like, katie, you are so passionate about this. So another way to really find kind of your niche is what the heck can you just not shut up about? Not like you're pissed off about it, but like, you kind of get on your soapbox, you're passionate about it. You want to make a change in the world. So that's another great way to really identify your niche.

A (12:28)

I'm curious, Gordon, what is it about working with gifted individuals that really sparks that inspiration for you and makes you feel energized and really love what you do?

C (12:39)

Well, what I've encountered with gifted individuals is that at an early age, we begin camouflaging. The society at large isn't built for the 2.1% at the outlying edge of the bell curve. And so there's this tendency to kind of hide some of that intensity that this gifted population has in common. And being through my work, to be able to help people re encounter those parts of themselves that they've hidden away and to be able to bring them to life and bring them back out into the world in a way that they can accept and learn to integrate into the world. It's very exciting work. And I get to see people really blossom into themselves in ways that they wondered if they could or maybe didn't think was possible. For instance, I had somebody come in who was like, I have to figure out how to get along better at work. One of the common characteristics of this gifted population is kind of a fascination boredom cycle, where about every two years their job hopping or relationship hopping. And she was like, I have to figure out how to fit in. Everybody keeps saying that I'm too intense, that my standards are too high, that I need to shift my expectations. So she came in in an effort to fit in better into this system. What emerged over the period of our work together was that she was banging her head against this brick wall of the system, trying to change it in order to improve it, because it wasn't doing what she needed it to do in order for her to become the professional she wanted to be. And so, rather than her shrinking further into that system, she grew into herself and began to accept, hey, these are strengths, not weaknesses. These are strengths that people are telling me to put away. And so by eliminating those strengths, she was able to actually be like, okay, I'm out of here. I'm going to go find a place that's going to want the person I am not ask me to be someone I'm not lights me up.

A (14:40)

I can tell. I love hearing you say this because your passion just gives me goosebumps. It's very evident how inspired you are and it's really cool also to hear you share that story of an actual case study of someone that you've worked with and how your work inspired them to change their lives in such transformational ways. That's something also that we are really passionate about. Teaching in the E course is getting really clear on being able to share stories and connecting with people on that emotional level. Because you just drew me right in as you're sharing that story and you get a really good sense of how you work. That's awesome.

B (15:17)

What's that?

C (15:18)

I appreciate the chance to tell it. I love talking about this stuff.

B (15:20)

Yeah. For those of you who are watching the video, I just, Gordon, I just saw your face like light up in the big, huge smile as you talked about it and it was really cool to hear you share that story. So share with us a little bit about. I know that you came into private practice with a full caseload, but what do you do to continue to build referral relationships? How do you nurture them? What works for you?

C (15:39)

Well, so what happened was two years ago I came off all those insurance panels except for Blue Cross. I kind of had to do proof of concept with my wife. She was like, how are you going to eliminate 98% of the population and make a living? So I maintained that Blue Cross Blue Shield. And very rapidly my practice transitioned to 100% of the population that I was targeting. And that's currently the case that there's so few clinicians who will say, hey, this is who I work with and this is what I do and I connect with those issues that you are experiencing in a very particular way. And so as far as the networking piece, I put my name out there as someone who was working with gifted adolescents, adults and families. I went to all of the folks who had been my referrers and said, hey, I'm making this switch. And I began having one on one meetings with local therapists and psychologists and school counselors and all the colleagues that you can imagine that were potential referrals and found out what they're doing, talked about what I was doing, and found where synergies might lie. I went and got a professional logo made and just started splashing that everywhere and making sure that it was appearing everywhere so I could be on brand and be recognizable again and again. And then probably the most fun thing that I got to do was start a local mental health professional social scene that I called not working.

B (17:15)

I love it. That's so awesome.

C (17:18)

And we get together a little wine bar, cocktail lounge, craft beer. They do have beer. It tends to be. Yeah, there's definitely some beer drinkers who are showing up. And it's usually like 30 or 40 people. It's not always the same people, but it's become this place that's totally unstructured. There's no agendas, there's no speakers, there's no frickin ceus.

A (17:48)

It's a not working. Networking. Love it.

C (17:50)

Yeah, exactly. We're all just hanging out. We're a bunch of people who do similar stuff and really get. Get each other at that level. And so we have social workers and counselors and psychologists and psychiatrists from agency settings and school settings and private practice settings all coming together, really getting to know each other. Not just like pitching like, here's my work and what I do, but also this is who I am. And that kind of relationship building over a period of time I think is maybe the most valuable thing that I've had for my business. But it's also something I feel I'm contributing to the local mental health ecosystem as I see all these other relationships being catalyzed and these other exciting things going on. It's great.

A (18:33)

I love it.

B (18:34)

I love that idea. And it's really nice to just kind of be able to hang without any agenda or anything, even a timeframe. You know what's so nice? When we did do the pop up networking with you guys and just really able to just learn about you personally. Like, that's really what builds a referral relationship, right? It's because I know like, and trust you, but I've had fun with you. We have relatability. I learned something quirky, you know, something like that. And those things really allow people to stand out in your mind. So I love that you do that and I love that you call it now working.

A (19:04)

It's so refreshing to be able to focus just on the genuine connection with somebody else and the relationship building and nurturing that over time without having an agenda or an expectation or that hard sell. I went to a networking event maybe about like two, three weeks ago, and when I first got there, there was two people who came up to me and they're like, hey, here's my business card. Nice. You know, like, I'm so and so and I specialize in this and they just like automatically throw their business card my way. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is like such a big turn off.

C (19:36)

It's like a 30 second commercial on TV.

A (19:38)

It's like the elevator pitch, like over and over to everybody in the. Like that, you know, just trying to hit the mass quantity of people without building that connection first. And it's such a turn off that made me want. Not even want to really connect with them and build that relationship. It's just, you know, it's definitely a pet peeve of ours and something that we joke about, but it is, it's so valuable to really connect with people in that genuine way and build that relationship. And it's a huge aspect of marketing.

C (20:05)

Yes. Yeah. And it's been great because like you said, we've got a lot going on in Asheville, including folks like Allison Pereir and Jane Carter and Christine Cain and all these folks who are really great coaches for folks who are trying to get their private practices going. You guys, this. We've got such an amazing ecosystem that deserves nurturing.

B (20:28)

Totally, totally.

A (20:30)

So share with us.

B (20:31)

I know you just mentioned Christine can, and before we hit record on the podcast, you were talking about a line that I said I wanted to steal from you, but you were giving her credit, which is take the leap, do it.

A (20:40)

Scared.

B (20:41)

Share with us a little bit about that.

C (20:44)

Yeah, kudos to Christine for that line. But this idea, there's this idea that I think people carry around with them that once they're confident enough or they've studied enough or they've received enough people telling them it's a good idea, that then they can make the leap that once they've saved enough money or done just everything perfectly to create this opportunity, then they can do it. I don't really, I haven't seen it really work that way. It tends to work very differently for myself, when I'm about 60% sure is when I'll take the leap. And knowing that this might not work, and if it doesn't, then it doesn't. But it very well might. And in most cases it does if you're willing to apply yourself.

B (21:36)

And I think that's so important because even today, you know, sometimes I get like nervous on the phone or nervous to see that first client or anxious. And I think that's a good thing to have and it's important. And you're right, it usually doesn't go away. And I know that when we actually interviewed and had Jeb Blunt on our podcast, the author of Objections, and this is what he does all the time. You know, he even talks about that anxiety. Like you think like, oh, someone who's an author and a coach and well known, they don't have that. But we all do. So take the leave, do it scared. It's not going to change anything. But what will change is really your sense of accomplishment, that you did it, that you overcame it, you know, And I relate that to really most things in life. Right. Like buying a house for the first time is scary. Becoming a parent is scary. Getting married is scary. Going out of country, like those are all conversations. Having hard conversations in your professional career, all of, all of it's scary. And we do it anyways as humans, just throughout the life cycle. And so don't let you know, going into private practice be anything different. And I think, Gordon, the thing that you hit on for a lot of people who really want that network of people to support is find someone or that group locally that you really can connect with. I think that's so important because private practice, I feel like kind of can be a sea of loneliness sometimes. I always love when my colleague's in the office on Wednesday and I can hear the click of her heels. It's just like reassuring that someone's there. And I'm not the lone man, you know, by myself with no money.

C (23:00)

Well, before I know that, we're gonna have to wrap up in a minute, but I wanted to say that in September, I came off Blue Cross Blue Shield Insurance as well and went totally private. Pay raised, my rates limited the number of hours that I'm working, decided to give myself six weeks of vacation a year and have in the two year period since I started making this leap and this shift, my income has gone up about 360%.

A (23:29)

Wow, that is fantastic. I just want to like jump up and down and celebrate that. That is amazing.

B (23:35)

So if you gave us like the actual numbers. So you started at how many hours a week seeing clients?

C (23:40)

24 to 26 clients a week.

B (23:42)

And then what did you charge for the clients that weren't on insurance?

C (23:45)

They were all insurance. So I was taking whatever the insurance was paying. So 47 bucks for a TRICARE person, you know, that's like four for the, for the Blue Cross Blue Shield person.

B (23:55)

And then now how many hours a week do you work?

C (23:58)

I see. I won't book more than 20.

B (24:00)

Okay, okay. And then your pay has gone up 360%.

C (24:04)

Yeah, my rate, my rate's now 150. And my, I don't, you know, I don't have to Pay a biller to deal with my insurance companies. And I've been able to trim down some of my other overhead costs and. And it's really been liberating and six.

A (24:19)

Weeks of vacation time a year. I just want to acknowledge that. That is awesome.

B (24:23)

And I was going to ask you, what have you done with some of those six weeks? Where have you gone? What have you done?

C (24:29)

Went to Portugal for 10 days. Went and biked the keys. I was in your neighborhood. I went and rode a bike, Key west in September. So just kind of going around and seeing things I haven't seen and being able to live a little.

B (24:46)

I really appreciate, too, Gordon, that you really speak to that the dream life is possible as well, and you're living proof of how niche works and having that dream life that you really want. It's all possible within the context of building a private practice that you love and working with the clients that you love. So what is most important for our audience to take away from your message today, do you think?

C (25:08)

A couple of things. One is to really recognize your strengths and capitalize them, capitalize on them. I think a lot of folks will focus on their weaknesses and seek to strengthen them, and that's not a terrible thing to do, but it's where those strengths lie that you're going to find your most energy. A lot of people, when I hear about their specialty, they're talking about how they specialize in trauma or depression or anxiety. And I, after hearing this enough time, decided that I don't want to work with problems, I want to work with people. And people are made up of so much more than their problem. And that's true for us as clinicians as well. And so if we're going to be bringing that strengths based, whole person perspective to our work, we need to bring it into our business as well and into our mindsets.

A (25:52)

Beautiful.

B (25:54)

Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that and we thank you for being with us today. It was really great to have you and hearing all about it. So, Startup Nation, thank you for joining us on this podcast. We hope you got a lot of value out of it. I know I did. And it was just really great to have Gordon hanging out with us, sharing his journey and knowing that if this is possible for him, this is possible for you. Definitely. Take. And one of the things I know when Gordon and I met, he talked about how he would listen to the podcast, take the ninja tips and implement them. So if you really heard something, I know we kind of almost talked about two spontaneous exercises to just really implement that. Sit down with yourself and really look at the clients that really just light you up and what do they have in common? So I think that was a really great little tip that he offered, really, just spontaneously. So we hope you guys join us next next time as we continue on our Asheville journey of having our podcast guest. And Hilary Holmes will be with us. Hilary Holmes actually designed both Alison's, her living room, I think, as well as her office and Laura Long's office. And actually, we had gotten a tour of Laura's office, and it's gorgeous. So Hillary is going to be talking to us and you about three ways to comfort clients through your office style, which is.

C (27:05)

Hey, y', all, I'm butt in. Can I. Can I put my website before we're done?

B (27:09)

Oh, I forgot. Yes. We're going to ask you about your takeaway.

A (27:12)

Exactly.

B (27:13)

So not your takeaway. You have a giveaway. And we talked about that and I forgot. Okay, so Gordon has a giveaway, and it is the actualized over excitability table. Did I get that correct?

C (27:25)

You did. You did. It's unwieldy.

A (27:27)

Okay.

B (27:28)

And it's for people who are gifted themselves, people who worked with gifted parents, teachers, other therapists. And you can grab that@gordonsmithasheville.com yes.

C (27:39)

Or giftedandgrowing.org, i actually just changed the website a couple months ago.

A (27:43)

Awesome. I love it.

B (27:45)

Thank you for reminding me because we did talk about that.

A (27:49)

And it's so fun having these pop up networking events because we connected with people like you, Gordon, and we have three podcast guests that you guys have recently listened to. And we're actually going to be having our next pop up networking. We haven't planned the details, but when we go to California. Where are we going? Altru Vista? Is that what it's called? Wherever. Disney?

B (28:11)

Is it Anaheim?

A (28:12)

Is it? Oh, okay. Yeah. See, I don't even know where we're going, but we're going to California to go see Ernesto at the not your typical psychotherapist conference. If you guys are not going to that already, you definitely want to be going because there's a ton of awesome presenters, practice builders, and we are so excited to be able to connect with you guys. While we're there, we'll have another pop up networking event and we'll keep you guys posted about those details as well. So fun. Love it.

B (28:38)

Thanks, Kate.

A (28:39)

Yeah.

B (28:40)

So, guys, for all of today's tips information, show notes, Gordon's giveaway, make sure you visit the show notes page where we just make it easy peasy for you just to grab this stuff there. So join us next week. Thank you for allowing us to inspire you from start to mastery. It is our sincere pleasure to serve and provide for you guys and really help therapists flourish in this arena. So we will see you guys later. Have an amazing and inspired day and.

A (29:05)

See you next week. Bye everybody. See you next week. Thanks for being here. Gordon thank you. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.

C (29:31)

Sam.