C (2:50)

I guess we'll find out.

B (2:54)

But now she has settled down into the awesome Asheville, N.C. from a young age, Hillary was astounded by the colors and textures she found in nature and knew early on that one's surroundings could be a grounding force in life. A self taught artist and designer, she has taken classes in everything from Feng shui for interiors at Moore College and art design to silk screening at Parsons School Design in New York. Hillary is certified as a color consultant in the Confident Color System, which I definitely want to know more about. It's a trademark thing. She loves to move around furniture when she's feeling stuck, takes dance classes whenever she can, and spends her downtime with her hubby, cat and dog at their 70s style ranch just outside of Asheville, North Carolina.

C (3:35)

So welcome Hilary. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

B (3:40)

We're excited to finally have you here. Over time, I've just really learned not to sweat the tech stuff. I guess that's like don't sweat small stuff, but you always got to have a backup and a way to kind of figure it all out. But before we dive into your awesome topic today, we just want to say if you are brand new to Startup Nation, we wanted to welcome you to the Startup Nation family. You are now family and we have a gift for you. That is our A to Z cheat sheet essentials for building and growing your dream practice. If you want to grab that, just head over to PrivatePracticesStartup.com, head over to the resources tab and there you will see the A to Z cheat sheet. And included with that is five days of practice building, resource and guidance. You're not going to want to just read the emails. You're going to want to do the emails to really get you guys a leg up. And of course, if you're a loyal listener, welcome back. It is great to have you. Kate, I think you wanted to share some stuff from our Startup Nation superheroes.

A (4:35)

Yes, I did. We love to give a shout out to our Startup Nation superheroes. So appreciate Amber Dalzell for sharing this amazing rave review. And we just wanted to take a moment to give you a shout out and share that with you guys. She said, thank you so much for your recent podcast on Imposter Syndrome. That's one that we did with Melody Wilding, which is an awesome episode. If you guys haven't heard that yet, definitely go back and listen. And Amber says, I'm in part time private practice and will be transitioning to full time on December 20th. So congratulations Amber. She just transitioned because now here we are in January and she says, I've been following your podcast for a few months now and have greatly appreciated the motivation and support that I've gained. I've also purchased some of your attorney approved private practice documents as well and really appreciate the detail you both put into the process as well as your attention to the legal protection. All in all, I want to thank you for what you do. Thank you Amber, for what you do and for taking the time to give us that feedback. Something that really continues to inspire us and let us know that we are inspiring you in the way that you really want to be inspired. Lots of inspiration there all around, right? It's that reciprocal feedback loop. Let's take a quick sponsor break here. Our sponsor for today's episode is Therapy Notes. When it comes to keeping your practice organized, you want to make sure that you have software that's not only simple but the best. We recommend using TherapyNotes. Their platform lets you manage notes, claims, scheduling and more. Plus they offer amazing unlimited phone and email support. So when you have a question, they are here to help get two months free of TherapyNotes. Today they are trusted by over 60,000 clinicians. Just use the promo code PPS when you sign up for your free trial at therapynotes.com PPS as in private Practice Startup. And if you want to hear more about the ins and outs of their platform, you can definitely listen to our podcast, episode 54 with Brad Pliner. Hilary welcome to our podcast. I'm so excited to have you here because I thoroughly enjoyed meeting you in person at our pop up networking event and loved our conversation and I just knew instantly we've got to have you on the podcast to share what you do for clinicians in creating such amazing private practice spaces for them. So tell us what inspired you to get into this line of work.

C (6:59)

I will and thank you. It's great to be here. So as a child I would say I was always like illustrating or doing something creative and when my parents would take me over to other people's houses I would try to move the things around on their tables because I guess I was bored. I don't know if they liked it or not, but flash forward many years. I started doing it for friends and family just as a fun thing, and I. I quickly realized that was a way to use my creativity and art. What got me to work with therapists was the lovely, amazing Jane Carter from Jane Carter Coaching. We had a quick conversation at a children's party one time, and she said, you know, I'm going to introduce you to Allison. You need to do therapy offices because just the way you're soulful and the way, you know, your interpersonal skills would be great for it. And I said, okay. And that was that. I mean, that was over a year and a half ago. And so I've probably done about 12 therapy offices since then.

A (7:56)

Awesome. That's so exciting. We're actually having Jane on the podcast in a couple of weeks. We had tried to schedule with her previously and had all these tech issues at that time, too. So I'm not sure what's going on with the tech gods, but at least we got this working today for you to be here. That's so cool to hear that she connected you with Allison and you've since really found this new niche, and you've helped a lot of therapists, not only in the Asheville area, but surrounding areas as well. Yes, correct.

C (8:23)

Well, mainly Greenville for Laura Long, because that's only about 50 minutes from here, so that's pretty much the farthest I'll go so far in person.

A (8:32)

Share with us some tips about office design. I have to say really quick that I'm in the middle of, like, knee deep office design for my new group practice. I know you and I talked about this several months ago in October, and we've been, you know, we've picked out the paint colors and the carpet. That's all in the flooring's in the cabinets and the quartz countertops for the kitchen and the conference room. And yesterday I had this appointment looking at wallpaper for some feature walls, and there's so many details, and thank goodness. I actually love doing this stuff because I'm sure it can be so overwhelming for people. I walked in this wallpaper store and there was, like, thousands and thousands of books and options, and I can imagine how people must just get, like, analysis paralysis. Like, I don't even know where to start exactly. So I'm so excited to hear about your thoughts.

C (9:23)

Yeah. So I have a couple thoughts I want to talk about. Three points. Basically, I use an ideal client as a roadmap, and I hope that Therapists will too. I'm also going to talk about why the couch is queen. And your office is not really like a showroom. So don't be afraid to use soulful decorating. So the first thing I want to talk about, if we're talking about tips, is a lot of us have probably done trainings on what our ideal client is or at least done some journaling or writing about it. And so typically what I have found in three years is that I tend to attract clients that are a little bit like me. I don't know if it's on purpose or what. And so use yourself as some of the components when you're designing and also make a list of what client you're trying to attract. So you're kind of looking at both of those as a balance. So if your clients are ideally, or if who you work with is, let's say they're between 25 and 40 and they're kind of woke and they're into like the vibrancy of the city, that's going to be a very different practice design than somebody who works with 65 and older who maybe wants a little bit of a more peaceful setting. So I think there's two ways you can look at it. Use that list, maybe ask a friend for a couple of descriptive words of how they would want to feel in your office and then use that as some data. And then the third thing is maybe go to one of your favorite restaurants in town that tends to attract kind of the same age group or same type of personality that your ideal client would be, because they usually have it down. If a restaurant is busy and warm and cozy and has some really good functional design, that's a great place to get ideas.

B (11:09)

What a great ninja tip.

C (11:11)

I love that one. Thank you.

B (11:13)

And I'm also like imagining this like before and after. Like, I guess you could even ask your clients, like, how does this. What's three words at this? One more time. What are three words in regards to how does this room make you feel and see if that's aligned and then what it is that you want to create.

A (11:29)

There's such an energy to design and when designing a space and creating that I love how you're starting off with the focus on the ideal clients and thinking about what's going to be a design that's going to feel comfortable, comfortable for them and in a line with them energetically. And it's not something that's going to feel chaotic or, or uncomfortable or anxiety provoking or just not be a Good fit, because that does contribute so much to their experience. And like it or not, there still is a stigma about going to see a therapist. So if we could try and make every aspect of this process as comfortable as possible for them, especially, you know, from the instant they walk into someone's office space and they feel at home and at ease, it's just gonna help that whole relationship process be so much smoother.

C (12:17)

Absolutely. And I said this before I was on Alison's podcast, and I really do think of therapy design, or design in therapy offices as a tool so people feel more comfortable. I mean, honestly, I have to say, they feel more comfortable for what they need to pay. Right. And they also feel more comfortable, like, knowing that you're, like, good in that office, like, you fit it. Everything tends to feel in alignment, and it flows. It's just. It's a good therapy tool. You know, I know probably several of us have been in an office that didn't work, and you remember that experience, so it's like you kind of want to do the opposite. You know, for people who are uncomfortable with seeing, like, too many messy papers, or if they're uncomfortable with a lot of darkness, then you wouldn't want to have the shades down the whole time, so. Or the shades up. I mean, let's talk about why the couch is clean. That's just a funny term that I came up with because I used to do financial counseling for a lot of years at a nonprofit, and we always use the term cash is queen, so I just changed it to the couch. Basically, you want to think about texture, height, and the design of the couch. Right. So I know it sounds funny to say think of the texture, but there are people, especially if you're, like, in Florida, and you're always wearing shorts or skirts, how the fabric feels on the back of your legs is actually really important because I think that there are, like, for example, I work with a therapist right now who does body image work, and, you know, she's really into whether the fabrics are sensual in the room and whether, you know, they're going to feel comfortable and comfortable in their skin. So think about the feel of the fabric. Think about the height of the couch. If your ideal client is maybe a little bit older, they want some firmness, to be able to stand up easily. They need arms, you know, and then you get to go for the look. The look, of course, is the most fun part, but you have to look at functional aspects of everything as well.

B (14:26)

That makes so much sense. And especially as you're talking about Florida. Like, in the summer, it's just hot, and if you have shorts on, you're, like, sweaty. You don't want to stick to the couch. Like, I could just imagine how really, like, subconsciously those things, you know, kind of play into how we experience the therapeutic process, for sure.

C (14:44)

And I think a lot of it is subconscious. That's the perfect word. It's very subtle. So I think there are people who are like, wow, why would I hire a therapist for my office? You know, I've got some cute books, and I've got a bookshelf from TJ Maxx. Well, it's not that you can't. It's not that we all don't have some type of. I. And actually, I would say every client I've ever worked with has an eye. And it's just the reason I would probably hire a designer and get maybe even just an initial consult is to just pull things together that you're not, you know, that you're not doing on a daily basis. Designers shop probably three to four times a week out in their communities, if not online. And so I just think it helps you from making those mistakes and, you know, kind of wasting that money, basically, on it. Yeah.

B (15:35)

Share with us. I know you had another tip to share with us. Share with us about that.

C (15:38)

Yeah. So let's see. This is my longest tip. I won't talk for an hour here. So how to make your office basically not feel like a showroom. I think what happens a lot, especially if we have a quick deadline and we want to upgrade an office by a certain date, is we go to West Elm or we go to World Market, or we go to Pottery Barn, and we buy every single thing there. Because when you're in the store, it looks so beautiful together, and it has a color scheme, and it resonates with us. Right. But I think if we fall into the trap of buying everything at one store, you can absolutely tell, especially places like World Market, not that I can't buy a lot there because I love going there, but just you don't want something to feel too much of a theme. So my biggest thing, if I had one tip to say in this category, is take the soulful approach and include you in the design. So think about your home. Is there a painting that you've had for a couple of years or some throw pillows that really just have this you vibe? And, you know, you could bring them in as a starting point, and you could say, hey, you know what? This painting is something I've always Loved. It's soothing, but it's also vibrant. I know it's not going to be jarring to somebody. Let's take a few colors from that and go to the paint store and start there. So there's a lot of keys in what you all already like, right? I have this saying, don't take people on an art safari. I don't know if you can imagine what that means, but basically, art is probably one of the most personal layers in the office. So that doesn't mean we have to go to Bed, Bath and Beyond and buy the $1999, the $19.99 pieces of canvas. We want to buy something that is meaningful. But, you know, be careful with really strong colors or really modern, bold pieces as they can be jarring to some people. I have a client who has one of her pieces of art is a picture of a boy sitting at a piano with diving gear. To me, that was the perfect blend of showing who she was and bringing a lightness to an office. And yeah, I mean, again, art is a start button to design. So if you have a personal piece at home, use it. And I think it will make the room feel soulful.

B (17:59)

And I like how you say that because, like, one of the things we always talk about with branding is really infusing you personally. Because as a therapist, we are our brand.

C (18:07)

Right.

B (18:08)

And also bringing that together with your ideal client. I'm just curious, Hilary, out of the offices, therapist offices that you've been in. Like, what are some of the common mistakes therapists make with trying to design their own office or making it really not warm and inviting? What do you see?

C (18:25)

Sure. The biggest thing I see is lighting. So a lot or a handful of therapists will use the overhead lighting and not so harsh.

A (18:35)

No, not the overheads.

C (18:39)

Not everybody. Just a handful. And then they just don't know to use maybe different heights of lamps. So you want a variety of table lamps, lamps that are standing. And honestly, light coming through windows is incredible. So if you can turn off those overhead lights and just find some different heights of lighting, I think that's a mistake. I do see another mistake. This one is probably going to sound funny, but lumpy pillows, we gotta, like, re buy pillows. You know, that's why there's out there. So give them a couple years. And if every time a client leaves your couch, you're like, well, I've got it. Like, really, really, you know, karate chop. Yes. Yeah. If they're just looking lumpy and there's just weird cotton sticking out of Them, you know, I think it's time to go. It's time to get new pillows. And I would say a third thing that I've noticed. Let me think here. It's probably the couch. Either it's too firm or it's probably. It's time to go. You know, it's time to go. Couches, unfortunately, you know, when we want to buy a couch for under 200 or under $300, then it's not going to last for five to seven years, unfortunately. So I would say, because it's your key piece of furniture, just keep that in mind, you know.

B (19:57)

And I've always often wondered, even for myself. So I rent office space and you know, between the couch and me, there's this big glass coffee T Also curious on how for me it almost feels disconnecting.

C (20:09)

Right.

B (20:09)

Because like, I'm not that close to you. So I'm just wondering. Yeah, go ahead and speak on that. And things in the office.

C (20:17)

That's perfect. I actually am working on an office right now. And that was one of our main concerns. And what we did is we just got rid of the coffee table altogether and we got a beautiful rolling chair from World Market. I mean, everywhere makes them where they're just a lot more sturdy. And it's upholstered and you can really sit in it. Well, it doesn't look like an office chair from like, you know, staples. And that way she could roll towards her clients. And we just made sure the carpet or the rug was flat enough so she felt like she could do that without feeling awkward. And then what we did is we got a smaller, or I bought a smaller coffee table kind of to be used as an art table because her clients kind of get on the floor and do some artwork. And I moved that to the side so, you know, you can just pull it out. Or you could get one with wheels. You could get a low coffee table with wheels. And if you felt like for some clients you needed it there, then you just pull it over.

B (21:11)

And what about therapists who kind of want to post like their degrees all over the place? Like, do you find clients feel like, eh, that's not the best thing, or put it in the hall or should we have it at all? Like, what's fun?

C (21:24)

I definitely should have it. I definitely think we should have it. And I've kind of polled people on this, so that's a good question. Less is more. So I think three to four, probably somewhere just a little farther away from where they're sitting. You definitely want it to be in the line of sight, but it doesn't need to be like, right there near the couch. You don't need seven of them. I think for the most part, as soon as people have sought you out and have had a couple sessions with you and know why they want to stay, that's more up. Seeing those signs is just more of a validation. So I would say keep them, but just don't overdo it.

B (22:01)

And I'm also curious about just. And I know you have a giveaway, which is five ways to reboot your bookshelf. What does someone's bookshelf say about them? Like, what are people noticing on the opposite side of the couch about the bookshelf? Because I know that my clients comment about the bookshelf that's in my office, which none of them are my books. And it's interesting because they make a very certain perception about me and the books or the way that the office looks. And then we always have a discussion about it. But I'm just curious.

A (22:25)

I know. I'm curious to hear what you say, too, because I'm in the middle of the office design and I have these two beautiful that are. They're like this metal and they actually used to be in my grandfather and great grandmother's house, which sounds crazy, but they used to own a hotel and they were in the gift shop and they're this beautiful, like, antique gold and silver combination and beautiful glass. And so I'm bringing them because they are something that's near and dear to my heart. My great grandmother and grandfather have passed away, and they've just been kind of sitting in storage. So I'm incorporating these and getting all these fun new artifacts and a couple books. So I'm really curious to hear what you're going to say.

C (23:05)

So here's what I'm going to say. Please don't just put all books. So I go into a lot of offices and there's beautiful books out there. It's not that I don't want you to bring books into your office. They're definitely an important tool. But don't be afraid to also bring personal objects and interesting little knickknacks from home. A bowl of dried leaves, like whatever it is, that really, again, inserts the soulful part of you or inserts the part of your personality that you want to express. You want to. I don't want to give away the points in the PDF, but basically you want to get as artful about that bookshelf. And sorry if you don't like the term artful. I'll try to think of another one. But you want to get it intentional. How about that? Intentional about those bookshelves as you do the rest of the office, so that everything feels cohesive so you know what you're doing on a big scale by hanging art and having lighting, you're just doing on a very small scale with your bookshelves. Yeah.

B (24:05)

I love that you talk about the alignment process. And of course, our brains, mine and Kate's, are always geared for marketing.

C (24:12)

Right.

B (24:12)

And everything that you're talking about is when people decide to choose, buy, stay. I guess at this point, they've already made a commitment to working with you, and now they're in your office. And now we have to look at retention. And it really is like the office space is also part of the process to really create good client outcomes and things like that. And it's really important because you're exactly right. They could come into your office and feel very overwhelmed by your modern art, or it feels very dry and stark and they just don't know why. But they just might say to themselves, like, just didn't go back. It didn't feel right. Like wrong. I'm not really sure. So the office space is as important, really as any of those touch points.

C (24:50)

That we talk about.

A (24:51)

It's part of the brand experience and that journey that we take our clients on. I love that.

C (24:56)

Absolutely. Yeah.

B (24:57)

So good. I got chills talking about this. So much fun. I'm curious for you, Kate, what did you kind of take away? Because you're right in the middle.

A (25:06)

I definitely know the importance of the couch. I love how you talk about the couch is queen because it is so true. It's like the traditional therapy couch. I've actually had clients that come in and are like, can I just lay down? And like, sure, if that's what you want to do, if that's what makes you come. But that's not how I have to do it. And to hear about the pillows and if you've had a pillows for a couple of years, being able to switch things out and give it a facelift and change the energy of the office and just thinking about it also stood out about your ideal clients. I love how you start there. And so many of us are our ideal clients or have been previously on in life and overcome such similar difficulties so we can draw on that part of ourselves that is that inspiration, whether it's us or someone that we knew closely and think about what is going to be most comfortable for them. And really starting there and then also including our style and our like marrying the two together for them and then for us, our style and our personality and just finding a way to convene together in the middle and creating this really unique design and experience. I love that.

C (26:11)

Perfect. Well said from both of you.

B (26:14)

Well, and Hilary, what do you want people to take away from your message today? What's the most important?

C (26:18)

So I think what I want people to take away is I want to normalize hiring designers and not that I want to do any kind of advertisement. I mean, you know, designers get work and they're all lovely people. I'm sure. What I mean is, even if you just veer out and get that initial consultation to help you mine and fine tune more of what you want to say and express in the space, you know, it's not always as expensive as one would think. And you don't always have to go the distance and do this whole package. The other thing I really want people to take away is if you're not really ready to hire somebody, which is totally fine, then I hope you walk away with tips today just feeling confident and playful. You have to stay playful with something like this. It's not a rule book. You don't need to watch HGTV and say, well, I've just got to write down everything those people say. It's still supposed to be light and a fun process to design your own office. So I hope you take some of that away today.

B (27:14)

Awesome. Well, we really appreciate you hanging out with us and sharing your message about office design and really how it incorporates everything as part of the process of our therapy and providing service. So you guys want to make sure that you actually grab the file that Hilary was talking about called 5 Ways to Reboot your bookshelves and books should not be the only thing on that. You can head over to our show notes page and grab the link there and grab a copy of that. So, Startup Nation, we hope that you join us next time. Next time we'll be talking to Michael, our last and final of the Asheville folks for now, I should say. And Michael is going to be sharing how to go from therapist to consultant and coach. Many of you have been thinking about doing that or should I do that? So we are going to dive into that topic. And Startup Nation, thank you so much for hanging out with us. Of course. Catch us on Facebook. We'd love to interact with you there. We hope you have an amazing and inspired day. And until next time, we want you to stay inspired.

A (28:12)

Take care we'll see you next time. Thanks, Hillary.

C (28:15)

Thank you so much.

A (28:17)

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.

C (28:34)

Sam.