C (2:32)

I'm. Well, right on cue, I'm glad to hear somebody's puppy in the background. My cat is underneath my feet right now, just, like, rubbing up against me. So that's hilarious.

A (2:42)

That's what happens when, you know, with the joy of podcasting, you could do it anywhere. And all three of us are at home today, and my dog is actually in her crate because she's a barker, Roxy, and that was Katie's dog, but it's all good. Beth, it's so nice to see you again. I know you and I really enjoyed connecting. I guess it's been about six weeks, maybe two months at this point, when you and I connected and Kelly Higdon had connected us before that, and I loved hearing about brain spotting and your passion for it. So tell us a little bit about what inspired you to get involved with brain spotting.

C (3:14)

Oh, wow. Now that is a journey. Originally, when I started my journey in just being a therapist, I was working at a substance abuse clinic, and we had dealt with a lot of trauma, obviously, and the treatment of choice back then was not really very effective or helpful. And so I started looking into what would be more helpful. And EMDR kept coming up, and I, when I heard about it in graduate school, I honestly was like, this sounds really crazy. Like, it sounds like some kind of woo, woo, weird kind of, you know, California sort of therapy, because it just seemed like, how could that help? You know, how could this just kind of like, you know, moving your eyes back and forth and focusing on something. How could that really actually change anything? But, you know, I got to go to this training, and it was like, kind of like a free trip to Atlanta, you know, so it was fun. I got to see some friends and stuff. When I went up there for that first training, I was like, this is really remarkable sounding anyway, but I was still kind of skeptical, thinking about, you know, this can't possibly really be that helpful. But then I brought it back to my treatment center, and I was astounded at the changes that people were able to make. Not just intellectual changes, but. But on a real deep feeling level. And so that started my journey into being a trauma therapist. And after I left that agency, I started private practice. Probably about a year or two after I worked with a psychiatrist briefly and did some EAP work as well. When I started my private practice, EMDR was the main thing that I was using at the time, and I was so excited about it. And so I'd go to different treatment centers and talk about emdr, and I would talk to different physicians because I. I just thought it was the most amazing thing ever. And as a result, I got flooded with referrals. And it sounds like a great problem to have, doesn't it? I mean, everyone wants referrals, right? Yeah. And it was fun because I was thinking that, yeah, like, this is how it should be. Right. And after being in private practice for about seven years, I started developing some health issues because I was seeing way too many clients. I mean, way too many. Like, 30 a week would be, you know.

B (5:28)

Yeah.

C (5:29)

Wow.

A (5:29)

And trauma clients, too. That is intense.

C (5:32)

Holy moly. You're not kidding me. Yeah. And I would deal with, like, the big T traumas, as we say. You know, those were kind of my favorite because I love to see the transformation and just see how amazing people are and how resilient they are in their ability to heal. And so, you know, like most people, I think I. I didn't really want to admit that I was having some issues because of the pace that I was working, and so I just ignored it for a while until I couldn't. And at the time, this is back in 2012, was when I started developing some symptoms, some heart symptoms. And then in about 2013 is when I discovered brain spotting. And that's a whole other story as far as why I kept searching for a treatment that was. That was just. It just fit me better and really held the client in a different way than emdr. But that's for another podcast. We'll talk about maybe some other time. So when I was learning brain spotting, I started using something called soft spotting, which is a great, incredible exercise that everyone learns in brain spotting, where you do some work on yourself. You can use it to either deal with things that are bothering you or to bring out positives to develop resources or even do some expansion work. And so I started doing a lot of that on my own. And I started realizing after this is about. In 2014, after my second heart procedure, that, like, this isn't going to get any better if I don't change my practice. I'd only been on one insurance at the time. Early on in my practice, I took several different insurances, and of course, I got off of many of them right away because they were just so difficult to deal with, but I was still on this one insurance, and it really, you know, quote unquote, worked for me. And many people in my area have this insurance, especially because there's a, there's a, you know, there's a main site here in the area. So I was really resistant to getting off of this insurance. You know, I had many of the same fears that everyone else has. Where will these clients go? How will they afford to pay out of pocket? Will they want to pay out of pocket? You know, is it ethical? You know, when I took them, I was taking their insurance, all that kind of stuff, which is really just kind of smokescreen for my own fears, really, you know, So I knew at the time, in 2014, I had to do something about it. And so I did. I started doing a lot of self work and cut my practice back from 30 clients a week to about 20 to 25, which doesn't sound like a lot, but when you're working that many hours, it is a lot. But still, I know I needed to do more. And so getting off the insurance was absolutely something I had to do. And I was almost ready to. But I could not get over this one fear that I had just totally torpedoing my practice. Because, you know, you hear people talk in your different circles, you hear people saying, well, this is a community that can't really support private pay. Everyone takes insurance in our community. And, you know, and I knew on some levels that the work that I loved doing was a lot different than other people in my area. But at the same time, you know, I thought, well, you know, I'm not special. It's not like I have some kind of gift that other people don't have. So it really held me back for a while. And until, until I got to the point where I was like, okay, I know the brain spotting works. I use it with my clients. I have a lot of clients who come in with various issues and even some business issues. So I've been doing brain spotting on their business issues with the therapy issues. That kind of stuff happen. And so I thought, why, why wouldn't I want to call a practitioner who I know and say, hey, please do some brain spotting with me on this war thing. And it was that fear of getting off the insurance and what happens if I just totally wreck my practice, right? And so we got on, we got on the call. She does 90 minute sessions. And about 10 minutes into it, I was like, okay, I don't know what else we're going to work on here, because I'm ready to do so with the rest of the time. We just kind of did some more kind of augmenting of that and then just kind of chit chatted about brainspotting and that sort of thing. And after that session, I wrote the letter to the insurance company. I got my letters ready to my clients, started telling the clients that, you know, as of whatever date, I was cutting off of the insurance, and I wrote that Dear John letter, had it on my computer. And this was that final moment of, okay, now I think I'm over this. I think. I think I'm okay. I think I know that no matter what happens, like, I'll make it work. But when I press send to this insurance company and I get up at this pain, I'm like, there's no going back, right? And so that's really where faith had to come in at that point. And I just had to really sit with it and just say, okay, you know, this is the bottom line. If I'm going to make this work, I have to do it now, and I really don't have a choice. My body was telling me it's time. You know, besides that, like, I don't want to have this kind of practice where I'm working all of these different hours, and my kids don't get to see their mom or don't get the best of their mom, right? And my husband, you know, he works extremely hard. And when I would come home from work, I would be sort of like a zombie, right? So I sat with it and I pressed send, and it was a feeling of, wow, I really did that. And then I had, like a mini panic attack. Like, oh, no, I really did that. But then I was like, yeah, you know, it's okay. And at the time, I was like, well, now what do I do? Because I didn't really look at myself as having marketed ever before because I just went out and talked about EMDR and how great it was, you know, just talking about what it can do for people. And so I decided it was time to get some coaching. And so I started working with Kelly Miranda, joined their bootcamp and did Mastermind with them as well, and also did some work with Kerry Nola and. And then have been doing some individual work with Kelly Higdon since then. So that's kind of been my journey. And, you know, brain spotting is one of these things that I love so much because it takes what's already within a person and it helps them access and kind of dissolve the negative stuff that we pick up. So that they can be clear of it and move on from a place of authority and of confidence.

B (12:16)

That's amazing. You know, as you, as you talk, Beth, it's interesting because I'm right Now in a 10 week think and grow rich mastermind. And I've been struggling in this place of like, what is it that is my true passion? Right. And what I really, really, really want to do. And the things that you're talking about, like having faith, faith is so important. And I realized is that a lot of times, like, we create our next goal from our current limitations.

C (12:39)

Right.

B (12:39)

And so as you're talking about brainspotting, it just seems to me like it just opens up like really the possibility in creating from nothing.

C (12:45)

Right.

B (12:45)

Not creating negative or the positive. It's just like creating from the blank slate.

C (12:51)

Right? Yeah, we all have that upper limit problem. And brain spotting is such a beautiful process because it really allows us to expand past any possibilities that we've even considered. Very cool. Yeah, it's really, it's a really neat process.

B (13:05)

So tell us a little bit about brain spotting and how it might be different than EMDR or other RRT art.

C (13:11)

Yeah. So brain spotting is a therapeutic modality that is based on the kind of catchphrase that where we look affects how we feel. And so literally, if you are thinking about something that is kind of either disturbing you or something that's got you a little bit stuck or a little bit stumped just as you're talking, when you look at that, I'm not really sure what my passion is. If you just allow yourself to be open to that possibility that your passion is out there. And when you tune into that feeling of everyone's had that feeling when they've been doing some work and they're like, yes, this is it. I feel so good. Right. You know, we talk about that flow state. You know, you can even just take yourself back to that, that feeling and you get physical sensations in your body. And so with brain spotting, what we would do is we would use your visual field to kind of explore that. So I might have you look at the pointer over here and tell me if that sensation of feeling like you're accessing that passion is going up, down, or staying the same. And we would just maybe go across your visual field or find. There are different ways of finding brain spots, which is the access point to where the good stuff is held or where the blocks are held. Yeah. So, yeah. So even if we're doing it, if we're doing a phone session, we can even do Brain spotting, I don't need to necessarily help guide, because your brain and body automatically know where that place is in your visual field where you can access. You know, you've had the experience where you've been talking about something and, like, you're not looking at the person. Like, you're kind of looking off. And it's not that you're trying to avoid eye contact, but you're accessing certain information. Yeah. And so with brain spotting, the theory is that there is a place in the brain that has some kind of direct access and correlation to where we're looking visually in the visual field. Does that make sense? Yeah. No.

B (15:10)

So interesting. And it was interesting because obviously we're on a podcast, so people couldn't see. Like, all of a sudden, this thing came into the vision that you're holding, and I could feel that, like. Yeah, I could feel that, like, relaxation and things like that. I was like, what's going on over there?

C (15:23)

Yeah. So brain spotting is different in many different ways, but probably one of the most important ways is that it's called a dual attunement frame. So as we're working with a client, no matter whether we're doing therapy or doing expansion work, doing coaching kind of work, we are attuning to what's happening neurobiologically with them. So, I mean, so we're watching reflexive movements. We're seeing the process. We're watching their breathing and staying with them and following them in that process. So we don't know exactly what's happening with the client, but we do know that something is happening when we watch. You know, maybe the eyes flutter or twitches that happen and that sort of thing. But it's not just kind of a detached observation kind of perspective. We are also holding a relational frame for the client. And I don't care whether we're talking about BT traumas or that next thing that stopped me from getting where I want in my private practice. When we are able to feel safe in an environment and feel safe to explore that things open up so beautifully and so quickly. You know, one of the most. Yeah, go ahead.

A (16:37)

I was just gonna say, I think this is the. I'm so captivated and fascinated by hearing you talk about this. It's. It's really interesting. And at the same time. Let's go ahead and take our quick break for today's episode sponsor, and we'll be right back. If you're in private practice, you wear a lot of hats, and some of those hats are totally great, but Some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, not so great. That's where Gusto comes in. They make payroll taxes in HR actually easy for small businesses like your private practice. Fast, simple payroll processing and benefits and expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state, and local taxes, so you don't have to worry about it. Plus, they make it easy for you to add on health benefits and even 401ks for you and your team. Let them wear one of your many hats. You have so many better things to do with your time. Listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. Try a demo and see for yourself@gusto.com PPS that's gusto.com PPS yeah.

B (17:41)

Totally captivated. I forgot about our sponsor. Very exciting. I'm like, what is Kate gonna say?

C (17:47)

That's interesting.

A (17:49)

Cool.

C (17:50)

So continue, Beth. Yeah. So brain spotting is also based on the uncertainty principle. And we're looking at from a psychological perspective. So we don't have to know what's happening to know that something is happening. We are trained as therapists and as clinicians that we have to know that we're the experts, but that really, it's just not true. We can't possibly know what's happening within a client. And we miss things when we make assumptions. And so it's a no assumptions model. And when we look at private practice, it fits really nicely into this framework too. We are so eager to do things that we feel certain about. We like to avoid things that we feel uncertain about. But if you look at it from the perspective of like. So we planned on doing this podcast today, right? Well, it didn't mean that it was going to happen because things sometimes turn up and things change. And so if we, if we have an idea that this has to happen for it to be successful, we miss other opportunities for the. The beautiful things that can unfold in life. Right. So when we look at our goals and the results that we're looking for in our private practice from a perspective of let's be curious and see what happens instead of this must happen this way, we open ourselves up to really access those incredible qualities within. And also we kind of roll with the punches a little bit better. You know, no matter where you are in your practice, no matter where you're, whether you're starting, whether you've been in practice for 20 years, you're going to run into blocks. And no matter how far you've come, there are things that come up and it's the difference between somebody who really gets mired and stuck in the person who keeps going is the willingness to not just, not just look at that, but also to have compassion for yourself and curiosity. You know, So I see a lot of people who beat themselves up for, you know, not blogging enough or I haven't reached out to this referral source and all of that kind of stuff. Right. You see that too. Yeah, yeah. And if they stay stuck in that, oh, I'm gonna beat myself up for it. They're not gonna get anywhere. It's like wearing a 50 pound backpack when you're, when you're walking down the street. It does weigh you down. But if you get curious about, like, why isn't it, why haven't I called that person? You will notice that the answers are within. And then it makes sense. And it's like, oh, okay, well, maybe I was afraid the person was gonna think I was a weirdo. Okay, well, you know, I'm not a weirdo. And if they think I'm a weirdo, well, then I guess that we're not really meant to be, you know, in any sort of professional relationship together. Right. Yeah. So that's one of the most incredible things about brain spotting. So again, it can be used and it's used in therapy worldwide. Used to deal with different trauma or any really any kind of therapeutic issue. But it's also used in sports performance enhancement, in acting, public speaking, and also in business coaching.

B (21:06)

That's awesome. You know, I feel like I'm a person that lives life like with 100% responsibility. Like, okay, I'm gonna be responsible for that. What's, you know, what's happening in my world? What am I manifesting and not with judgment. Right, of course, Sometimes slipping in judgment. It's interesting because now I know why our podcast got rescheduled for today. Because you're right. This, like, I feel like this podcast is for me, like, never mind everybody else is directly for me today. Because what you're sharing is with, for me is exactly where I'm at. And like everything you're saying, I'm like, yes, yes. So this is like, you know, very serendipitous, a God thing. I really appreciate it. I'm curious, Beth, what are some of the reasons that people avoid taking like, action, like moving forward? I know you're sharing some as we talk.

C (21:48)

Yeah, yeah. Well, there are so many. And you know, we could spend probably, you know, we could do a year long podcast on this, I'm pretty sure, because we all have our unique kind of nuances, but really it comes down to uncertainty. Or I'm certain that this thing is going to happen, even though we're just making that up in our head, you know, so if I, if I write a book, I'm certain that people are going to say, oh well, that wasn't original. She stole that from so and so. Right. Or I could have gotten that information off of the Internet. Right. So I'm not going to write a book. Or you know, I really want to expand into doing coaching or I want to, I want to stop working evenings. That's a really universal one, I think for a lot of people. Especially once people look at the fact that they're missing out on what's happening at home. A lot of times they don't want to work evenings. But then they say to themselves, well, you know, I work with couples, they have to have to be seen at night. Or I work with kids, they have to be seen after school. And these kind of things and those kind of beliefs keep people really stuck. And I think that sometimes that fear of what people will think and if people won't accept what I'm doing, or you know, if they think that I'm now greedy because I'm not taking insurance anymore, or they think I'm selfish because of whatever reason, then people won't like me or people won't refer to me or my clients will be mad, all those kind of things. So especially once you finally built a practice that feels like it's working for you, messing with that sometimes seems like a really bad idea. Right. Don't fix what's broken is one of, one of the things that we have. Right. So there are many different reasons, but I think that the worst thing that happens is that we are sort of blind to why we're not taking action. And I see all the time that I'm so busy, I would do xyz, I would write a book, but I don't have time. I'm seeing too many clients. And people also like to take on much more work than they can handle, whether it's at work or at home.

A (24:05)

So.

C (24:05)

So they've got a full practice and they're volunteering here and they're working at the kids school and all these kind of things, doing things at their church and they don't have quote unquote time to do the things that they would like to do. Yeah. So. And it's just a way of kind of padding it and protecting that fear of what happens if it doesn't work. Right. And it just kind of reminds me of something that Seth Godin says. And it's like, if you are afraid that it's not going to work, you're on the right track. You know, it's a real important thing. Yeah.

B (24:40)

Interestingly enough, in our mastermind, talking about thinking, grow rich, the concept. So, you know, I think faith, like, have faith, whatever, and the introduction of the concept of faith, like, we can also have faith in what you're saying about the certain things like, oh, I know it's going to blow up. I know it's not going to work. I know I'm not going to be able to achieve that. And I never, like, looked at it that way. But, like, you talk about it as we become certain when it's not even true, but we live it as truth. And it was interesting during our mastermind last night, I actually decided to go into the dictionary and look up, like, what does belief actually mean? Right. A statement that we believe is true. Very interesting. I can sit here and talk about this for a long time. Anything that you want to make sure that you share with our listeners today before we begin to wrap up?

C (25:28)

Yeah. I just want to first of all say, Katie, thank you for really being open and transparent about that struggle that you're having. Because I think that sometimes people get the impression that people like you so that the different coaching and consulting kind of celebrities never have these sort of problems. Right. But it's not true. And so you're really modeling that important reminder that we are all human and when we continue to grow, we'll continue to hit up against those uncomfortable places, you know, but to answer your question, the one thing I want people to really remember is that the discomfort that you feel about whatever it is that you want to achieve actually holds the results that you're seeking, you know, so don't run from that, you know, and if you're running from it, stop beating yourself up from because you're running, and say to yourself, why is it that I'm running from this? Get curious about it instead of coming from a place of shame. Yeah.

B (26:31)

And thank you so much for acknowledging that because it's interesting as I shared that, like, then there was a lot of mind chatter, like, oh, no, I just said that. And this is a podcast. This is not like just a conversation that's not recorded. And what does that mean to the audience and what do they think and what does my business partner think? Like, that all, like, actually came in right after. So I appreciate that and I just want to be more authentic about that. And, you know, Kate and I have talked about this, too. It's like, I love business and I want to, like, grow. And that's like a passion, but it's like really finding where exactly that is. And I think the cool thing about, you know, being a practice builder and being a business coach as well is, you know, it's a very reciprocal process. Right. Because we are teaching, coaching, training, and we are also doing it with ourselves. Right. And, you know, I actually went through. Gosh, I went through some type of protocol. I can't remember off the top of my head, but working with someone. And he brought up. He's like, Katie, he's like, I think you have a lot of therapists, Shane, meaning, you know, for those who are looking to scale. And maybe they're like, well, I want a certain way of life, but I don't want to see all these clients and they get stuck in that. Like, it was really cool because as therapists or professions that go through a lot of schooling and have master's degree or doctorate's degree, it almost feels like sometimes it's like, well, I work this hard, right? And what, now I'm going to throw it away or I'm going to do something different. And like you said, well, what will people think? What will my family think? And we just go through all of that. Like, that's probably what creates a lot of the tiredness and exhaustion. And I'll just own that. That's all me.

C (27:58)

Yeah, well, but it's not. It is all you and it's everyone else, too, you know, like, we all have that same issue. And if we're willing to tune into that exhaustion and those in that stuff, just even doing that, you can start working through it, you know, so it's interesting because my.

B (28:16)

I have a. I have two different masterminds, three different masterminds actually going on, interestingly enough. And my thing that's happening with one is just stillness and streamline. Stillness and streamline. And that's just where I need to be. So just being with everything is what you're talking about?

C (28:31)

Yeah. And what comes to mind for me is we could do a. We could find a place in your visual field where you can access that stillness and streamline to augment what you're already doing. So brain spotting is such a fun thing to do. So if you just sit with that, with that feeling of stillness and streamline, attuned to what's happening in your body, there's a place in your visual field where you can feel like that. Kind of like the energy of that. Yeah, I'm harnessing that sensation of stillness and streamline. And if you stay on that place in your visual field, you'll find that you can augment that access. Yeah, cool.

A (29:08)

As we've been listening, I've been still in that stillness place and just. And just watching because, Katie, I could tell that this is really speaking to you. And it's so cool to hear you share how this conversation with Beth is really just impacting you on a lot of different levels. And I'm sure our listeners are really appreciating you being authentic and vulnerable enough to share that. And this is part of the journey. As you guys are listening and growing and evolving, we're doing the same. We're doing a lot of this work on ourselves and listening and growing and evolving, and the work on yourself as a business owner, it never ends. It never ends. And as you step into new areas, you scale and you level up and you grow yourself and your business. Those little mindset issues come up, or insecurities or imposter syndrome or the upper limit issue. I mean, so many of those issues come up. So it's just awesome to have people like Beth out there who can help break through those barriers. So, Beth, thank you so much for being on today's episode with us. And ultimately, what do you want our listeners to take away from this episode?

C (30:13)

Well, if you just get curious about what's stopping you from moving forward, you'll start moving forward toward whatever your goals are. Yeah. So instead of just hiding and being afraid of that, just realize that there's great information there.

B (30:27)

Fantastic. And we just so appreciate your information, your knowledge, your calm demeanor. I obviously enjoyed today's podcast and I just really appreciate you being here. So again, make sure you listen to the whole podcast next week. We have Alison Pigeon speaking of masterminding, talking about masterminding, so how not being in a mastermind might make your business suffer. So, Startup Nation, we wanted to thank you for joining us for today's episode, and we wanted to do our Startup Nation superhero shout out before we sign off for the day.

A (30:56)

Yes, today's superhero shout out is from Beatles528. I'm not sure who that is, but thank you. They say Dr. Kate and Katie's podcast provides valuable information, resources, and innovative ideas to promote. Promote a private practice. If you need ideas to assist with branding, marketing, or website building, look no further. The best part, it's free and convenient. Thank you, Beatles, for enjoying our podcast. And we look forward to continuing to inspire you and all of our Startup Nation listeners from Startup to Mastery.

B (31:27)

And one thing, Beth had an awesome giveaway. I didn't want to sign off before we shared that. It has a really cool name. Beth. I'm going to let you share that and it was will be on our Show Notes page.

C (31:35)

Go ahead. Yeah, awesome. If you go to bethmeda.com I have a really fun giveaway. It's a workbook that's entitled the Seven Deadly Sins of the solopreneur. There are things we do in our practices that can really cause some slow deaths or immediate deaths. So check it out and hope that you enjoy it. Great.

B (31:57)

Thank you so much. So like Kate said, Startup Nation, we'll see you later. Thank you for allowing us to inspire.

C (32:02)

You from Startup Mastery.

B (32:03)

Have an amazing day.

A (32:05)

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork and so much more.

C (32:27)

SA.