B (2:41)

So just like any good online business, sometimes we have tech challenges. And that so did happen with us.

C (2:47)

Definitely. Definitely. So weird. I was supposed to do a video session before this didn't happen, and everything was working just fine and then it wasn't working.

B (2:58)

We're here. We're going to make it rock. We're going to make it work. So I'm really excited about your topic and I'm assuming obviously this is how you started your practice. On this budget.

C (3:09)

Definitely. Yeah. I was, you know, doing agency work, doing this work, that work, whatever, and then that wasn't. It just wasn't fulfilling for me. And so I was getting into private practice. I was very, very fortunate to have a professor of psychology who actually took me in and let me use her office Fridays and any night I wanted to after six. So that was like the ultimate shoestring budget. Right. No cost whatsoever.

D (3:39)

Perfect.

C (3:41)

You know, so if you could do that. Absolutely. You know, build your. Build your practice up a little bit before you move out on your own. And about two, two and a half years after that, I had my license. And then we said, you know what, Michael? It's time for you to get your own office, you to take care of your own stuff, because, hello, this is still my office. She says. And I said, absolutely. You are so correct.

B (4:04)

So you got kids.

C (4:04)

So I am definite, Kind of, yeah. You know, she's still a great, great resource and a great friend as well, because like I said about the networking group I've put together here in central Wisconsin, where it's all about building relationships, it's about pulling people in who are doing the same thing I am. But let's face it, private practice can be very, very lonely.

B (4:28)

Totally.

C (4:29)

So we need some other people to talk to, especially if we're not, you know, just down the hall from others or what, you know, that was one of my reasons for that group is, you know, that and referrals, of course. But more importantly, I was really lonely.

B (4:46)

Yeah.

C (4:47)

So going back a little bit, you know, when I got kind of kicked out of the nest, like you said, I like that. I started looking and I said, all right, I got a budget, about 250amonth. I figured because that was right around three to five hours of work for me at that time.

B (5:03)

And how long ago was this?

C (5:06)

Let's see, it'll be three years October 1st.

B (5:09)

Okay.

C (5:10)

So actually moved in November 1st, three years ago. So 2016. And so I said, all right, Michael, you got 250 you can spend, you can work with whatever you want to call it per month. And again, like I said, that was somewhere between three and five hours a week at that time. Mainly cash pay at that time. So I started looking around and I was sticker shock. My area is very odd as far as income goes anywhere from super poor to super rich. So, you know, we've got, you know, an influx of somewhere around 25 to 35,000 is probably a median income around here.

B (5:56)

Okay.

C (5:57)

Although that's probably really old numbers. So it's probably nowhere near correct anymore. So most people wanted to use insurance or if they were cash pay, they wanted to pay ultra cheap, you know, 25, 30, 50 bucks an hour to see me, which was, you know, okay, let's just do this. We can do this. So I looked around. Office space was really expensive, or they just weren't. They were in really weird spots. Like one I had to walk through a conference room, which was actually a junk room to get to the office. And I went, huh?

B (6:35)

Yeah, clients aren't gonna like that.

C (6:37)

Oh, no. So that was one of my criteria. It's gotta be. There's got to be some kind of safe, easy entrance for them, which is very, very important. And there's got to be some kind of waiting area where they can feel like, hey, you know, I'm not being stared at, I'm not being watched, etc, etc. So again, it's a bit of a challenge. Definitely doable. So I kept looking, and then all of a sudden I was driving around where I actually am now. It was a different building originally, but it was $12 a square foot a year. That is one dol per square foot per month.

B (7:18)

So how many square feet was that office?

C (7:21)

156 square feet. So like a 12 by 13 is what it was. Okay. Little box, really? But it was perfect. You could fit a love seat, a chair and a desk and, you know, a couple little things. And it was ready made.

B (7:41)

And so how much did that cost you a month?

C (7:44)

156Amonth.

B (7:45)

All right, so from the 250 budget, we're at 156. So my quick math is $99. No. Yes. No. 90. Ooh. My quick math is $94 left.

C (7:57)

Yeah, yeah, basically.

B (8:00)

So what'd you do from there?

C (8:02)

Well, then, okay, now we got to do some furnishings, right? Yeah, I didn't exactly have a house full of couches and chairs I could utilize. I probably could have, but they would have been kind of gross. So I went to look for office furniture next.

B (8:20)

So where's that?

C (8:22)

You got to go to the thrift stores. You go to Facebook Marketplace. You go to Craigslist.

B (8:28)

Nice.

C (8:29)

Because everybody's got practically new stuff that they're giving away for next to nothing. Or they're, like, way overpriced. So then you just keep on going. But I went to the thrift store, and they happen to have the sofa, loveseat, and chair, and it was 50% off day.

B (8:53)

Ah, that's perfect. You got to look for 50% off day. Or it's, like, red 50% off today. Or white. Right. Or furniture, I guess. That's awesome. So how much did you pay for your furniture?

C (9:02)

So the furniture and I. I was gonna look that up, and I keep forgetting it was under $100 for this.

B (9:10)

Wow.

C (9:11)

Yeah.

B (9:12)

And pretty. Pretty decent. Pretty. Like, looks like new.

C (9:16)

Looks like new. It actually. It's sitting right here next to me. Yep. Going on three years later, so.

B (9:23)

Nice.

C (9:24)

Yeah. And clients love them. They walk in, they go, wow, this is really nice. And I go, thank you.

B (9:30)

Paid a lot for it. All right, so we got. We got the office space, we got the furniture.

C (9:37)

Yep. You know, and then a little. Few knickknacks. I think I. The only thing I bought new were the lights, the big lamps, you know, and then a bookshelf. And that was $40 total, so. And I'm still using all those. My folks donated a desk. It's actually a very nice cherry desk. Nice model at JCPenney's for years, and my dad was the manager, so he said, hey, I got this desk. We're moving. Do you want it? I said, absolutely.

B (10:09)

So asking your family about, you know, maybe kind of gifting you some stuff as you. It's kind of like, I guess, like a baby shower. Right. It's like, hey, I'm opening up a business, and maybe we should create something like that. Like the entrepreneur shower. Helping people get into business.

C (10:26)

Yes. I love it. I love it. I love it. Yes. I mean, you don't need much to get your therapy practice up and running and going. You know, you probably have a garbage can at home that you don't use for everything.

B (10:40)

There you go.

C (10:42)

Throw a. Throw a reusable bag that you get at whatever store for us. It's quick trip. Right. You know, they put everything in a bag. Use that for your can liner. I'm still doing that because why would I go out and buy, you know, $10 worth of garbage bags to use every month?

B (10:59)

Sure.

C (10:59)

That's just silly, right? Nobody cares. And actually, in a lot of ways, I think a lot of my clients appreciate that I don't have ultra high end stuff in my office. And it's not, I'm not the guy with the tie and the suit and very stuffy because it's not me.

B (11:19)

Right. And it's so important to really authentically be who you are to attract the clients that you want. Right. And so that's a perfect fit for your clients or someone else's clients might be a little bit different whether you're working with kids or more high end clients. So for you, your office and your clientele really, really match. So before we move forward, why don't we just take a quick break for our sponsor?

C (11:40)

Definitely.

D (11:41)

If you're in private practice, you wear a lot of hats and some of those hats are totally great. But some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, not so great. That's where Gusto comes in. They make payroll taxes and HR actually easy for small businesses like your private practice. Fast, simple payroll processing and benefits and expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state and local taxes so you don't have to worry about it. Plus they make it easy for you to add on health benefits and even 401ks for you and your team. Let them wear one of your many hats. You have so many better things to do with your time. Listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. Try a demo and see for yourself@gusto.com pps that's gusto.com pps there are so many ways to keep your practice organized, but TherapyNotes is by far the best. They're easy to use. Secure platform, lets you not only do billing, scheduling and progress notes, but also create a client portal to share documents and request signatures. Plus they offer amazing unlimited phone support. So when you have a question, they're there so you can get help fast. Get started with TherapyNotes today, trusted by over 60,000 professionals. Go to therapynotes.com and enter promo code PPS as in Private Practice Startup and you'll get two months for free. Also, you can listen to episode 54 where we interviewed Brad Pliner and took an in depth view into their ehr.

B (13:13)

So what was the next thing that you bought?

C (13:16)

The next thing I bought probably a printer. I think that cost me. I got it at Best Buy and I found an online deal. And they matched it nice. So instead of 1 99, I think I got it for 1 25, so. And I knew I didn't want a inkjet anymore because the ink always dried up on me and never got used. I was going with the laser printer because I. Hey, the laser powder never goes away, so we're good forever.

B (13:47)

Okay, cool.

C (13:49)

That. Let's see. After that, buying stuff, I don't think I bought any. Oh, yeah. Recently, I bought some. Some carpets. One for the office and one for the waiting area.

B (14:05)

Okay.

C (14:06)

And some new chairs, you know, but the. The carpets were from Wayfair.

B (14:10)

Okay.

C (14:10)

I got two. And they're. To me, they're a beautiful design. And I actually got the same design. One in brown and red and the other in blue. And it was $90 for both of them. Shipped.

B (14:23)

Yeah. I gotta tell you, man, Wayfair, I. We had. When we moved into our house, it'll be five years ago, we went to this place called El Dorado here, and, like, we bought some new furniture, and it cost us $10,000. And one of the carpets, the area rug was $500, and it was this, like, shaggy. It was pretty, but it was, like, white and gray and had these sparkles. And then you have your dogs lay on it, and it's not white anymore, and you can't keep them off. And so we ended up, like, cleaning it, like, several times, and it. But anyways, I went to Wayfair, got the same size carpet. Really cool. Like, you said 90 bucks. Like, it was awesome. And overstock.com is also a great place for really cool deals as well.

C (15:01)

Definitely. I mean, you know, you're doing it in your own home. Why not do it in your therapy practice, too? I mean, clients aren't going to be able to tell a $10,000 furniture set from a, you know, let's say $1,000 furniture set.

B (15:16)

Well, if you're finding all the right deals, like you did.

C (15:19)

Yeah. And I always test them out, too. I sit on them, you know, just like I would if I was to go to the store and buy one for the house. I gotta sit because, you know, well, especially in the office here, I'm gonna be in this chair a lot, Right. You know, upwards of 35 hours a week. I'm going to be sitting in that chair sometimes, so it's got to be comfy, so. And then you got to check out the other side of the table, you know. Going to be sitting there, too. Yeah. Sitting in something that just saggy or droopy or way too hard even. So, you know, it, it took a little time, but it was kind of like the moment furniture.

B (16:03)

Nice.

C (16:04)

And I just love it. I love it.

B (16:06)

So share with us like kind of the other stuff. So I'm thinking about like paperwork, liability insurance. Did you do an EHR or not? Tell us about that stuff.

C (16:16)

Yeah, definitely. Let's go with EHR first because looks like I have a list over here and that was the next thing on there. So I went with Office Ally originally because my psychologist friend, she had a biller who actually used Office Ally. And so she trained me in Office Ally. So I got to know it really, really well. And I'm actually, until probably the last month now I've been using Office Ally. I'm actually currently switching over to Simple Practice.

B (16:49)

Okay.

C (16:49)

Because of meeting Jillian out at the not your typical psychotherapist summit where we met. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, finally making that move because I'm getting sick and tired of cobbling everything else together. But it worked for me. I used Calendly, for example, for scheduling and clients loved it. I didn't like it because it was only email at the time. I think they now have text reminders too. But I've been using 10 to 8, so the number 10 word to 8.com for scheduling.

B (17:29)

Okay.

C (17:29)

It's completely free for the first hundred appointments a month.

B (17:33)

Wow.

C (17:34)

I feel like I'm giving them a big shout out ad here.

B (17:39)

I mean, that's okay. You're sharing your list of resources and how you got started on a shoestring. I can't, I don't want to say that too fast because I'm afraid that I might slip up and say something else. So shoe string budget.

C (17:53)

Right.

B (17:54)

So just out of curiosity, with calendly and the 10 to 8, are those both HIPAA compliant or do they have a feature for that?

C (18:02)

So you can make, let's see, 10 to 8, you can make HIPAA compliant, but then it costs a whole lot of money. Not exactly. They do have a business agreement that you can sign and have that it's not really a baa, but you know, it definitely protects all your information.

B (18:22)

Okay. More of a right thing to assure that your, your, your calendar scheduling is definitely HIPAA compliant. If, if you fall under the HIPAA guidelines. If you're a private pay. You don't necessarily. Only I should say don't fall under the HIPAA guidelines there. So just make sure you double check and do your work. So from there, where did you go?

C (18:43)

From there. See? So Notes. I was just using the old yellow pads for a long, long time until about two, three months ago when I found the rocketbook, which is pretty much like using paper. But after you use it, you can scan it into your phone or whatever, scanning software and then upload it right to the cloud or wherever you can, you know, upload it. And it takes a picture and it does transcription. If your handwriting doesn't suck like mine, transcription is not great, but it's not bad. And then you wipe it away with water.

B (19:24)

Wipe it away with water. Do tell.

C (19:29)

So it's actually just a little terry cloth. And you use the special frixion pens is what they're called, I think. Let me see.

B (19:37)

That is a completely new word for me.

C (19:39)

Yeah. Pilot Frixteon. I don't know if you can even see that. But this is like a special pen there. You can buy them just about anywhere. The rocket book, huh?

B (19:49)

Okay.

C (19:50)

One's got 32 pages.

B (19:52)

Okay.

C (19:53)

Wipe it away after you've scanned it and now it's on your computer or wherever you sent it.

B (19:59)

So do you wipe? Is it like a whiteboard?

C (20:02)

Ish. Kind of, but it's more like paper. Huh.

B (20:07)

So yeah, very interesting.

C (20:10)

Thirty bucks.

B (20:11)

Okay.

C (20:15)

Paperless.

B (20:16)

Got it, Got it.

C (20:19)

I've been also trying out a writing tablet lately, which is okay. Ish. The one I found was remarkable, but it's like 650. And I'm like, you know, still I don't want to spend 650 bucks on a gadget at this point. But I found one on Amazon and I think it's in my links. If I don't, I will get it to you. It's an LCD writing tablet, so you write on it, you hit save, it goes into a memory bank on the tablet and then you can push it to the cloud again. Paperless.

B (20:55)

And what cloud service do you use? Or a HIPAA compliant cloud service that you recommend?

C (21:01)

Well, right now everything's just going to my computer and then I'm just. What's the word? Wow, I just lost it.

B (21:11)

That's okay.

C (21:14)

I should know this being a former programmer. Encrypted. There it is. I just encrypt everything on my computer right now. And again I'm moving over to simple practice now. So everything will be through them, which is HIPAA compliant and they're cloud service then. But I know others who are using like the Microsoft OneDrive. Dropbox is fully encrypted as well. So you can put things up to Dropbox. That's kind of like the original cloud based. So yeah, that's about it that I'm using right now. But I know there's others that are super easy, super cheap. So.

B (22:01)

So what about other things like website? I don't know if you did business cards. Share with me about those.

C (22:11)

Yes, vistaprint is my best friend as far as business cards go. Kind of goes back to when I was working with the psychologist. She says, here's my card. Use Vistaprint, here's a code. So I got like 500 for 10 bucks. I went, okay, I can handle 10 bucks. So I got, you know, my 500 cards and you know, started doing it like that. And I've actually never used any other service other than vistaprint now, especially since they actually have their little design things on the website now. So you can move your stuff around or. And they'll keep it for you. And for a while they were doing promo boxes. So when we met I was actually wearing my logo shirt that they sent me.

B (23:01)

Nice.

C (23:02)

Which was pretty cool. It's the only one in existence, so. And they're just. To me, it's just not worth buying T shirts for my business at this point. But who knows? You never, you never can tell, right?

B (23:14)

You never know, but you're right. And being in private practice, usually we're not walking around with T shirts with our logos on it.

C (23:20)

No, no. Although that would be, you know, I guess that's one way to destigmatize mental health. Right?

B (23:27)

There you go, there you go. So, and then what about website? What did you do for a website?

C (23:32)

Website? Because I'm a former programmer, I kind of knew where to go, but I kept looking around and looking around. And then there was another Facebook group, Becky de Grossa, I believe, runs it. And she kept saying, don't use this kind, don't use that kind. And I went, what the hell is all this? I used to just write the code and there was the website, which in some ways for me was a lot easier. But I found a good WordPress site and I think I paid, I think it was half off for the first year. So it was like 60 bucks and they had the WordPress all that crap. So it was real easy. Real, real easy. Although again, being a former programmer, I get, I get stuck in the code sometimes.

B (24:19)

So yeah, I was gonna say. So people who are not tech savvy, what might you recommend for them?

C (24:25)

Yeah, definitely. Well, you know, WordPress has got some really, really good themes that are already put together. So it's kind of a, you know, go through the 15 minute presentation of what is WordPress? How to use WordPress and really can do that. And it's really easy. If I were to go back and do it again, I would probably look at trying to find somebody to help me design it better. Because my site, well, my biggest problem is just I've been so busy, haven't been able to update for a long time.

B (24:59)

Sure. Daniel Fava of Create My Therapist Website has a really great basically e course that teaches folks how to do diy. Well, he has this interesting name. Not, it's not do it yourself or he calls it do it alone or do it yourself. So you do it yourself with help from him and he does some coaching stuff for folks, you know. And again, because we're talking about how to create a practice on a shoestring. How to say it slogan, budget. That might be an option for you now for people like me, I outsource websites. I never even think about creating a website that is an automatic. I get like, I get this like anxiety in my body and then my brain starts to like fade over and I get anxious and I sweat and I start to get like a 10 year old. Like, I get so upset. It's crazy. So outsourcing and tech, if I can manipulate it with my hands, I can figure it out. But technology, when I keep pressing the same button and it's not working and I don't know why, I don't know what else to press. I just suck at tech. So that would be me.

C (26:01)

Yes. Yeah. And I think I saw something with Daniel not too long ago. So might have been with you and Katie or you and Kate, right?

B (26:08)

Yeah. We did a webinar with him last week on it. So Daniel's great. He's just, he's really awesome. He knows his stuff, so that's always a good option. Again, talking about the Shoestring Budget podcast, if you're not going to outsource that as well. But there's also a lot of great other folks. Obviously we love Brighter Vision. That's no surprise there. But Brighter Vision does websites for $59 a month. I think you can get your first month or two free. So that's an option to do that. And there's other great folks who create websites. So any final really, really important resources that you want to share before we wrap up for today?

C (26:44)

Yeah, insurance, absolutely. You're going to need liability insurance. Of course. As a therapist, that's your malpractice. So I have found that CPH and Associates out of Chicago is probably the cheapest. I haven't had to use them. So I mean, that's great. And then there's also hpso and those are the two that I found to be most affordable for everybody. I think my first year with CPH I paid, I want to say it was 119 for the year.

B (27:23)

Nice.

C (27:24)

Yeah. You know, again, it was just a solo practice, so just one person.

B (27:28)

Yeah, I remember seeing. I don't know, it's been a while for me, but I think if. I don't know if it was my first year having insurance or my first year in private practice, But I believe CPH INS did like some 50% off discount. So it's always worth, you know, asking, you know, if people are providing a discount or for first time or something like that or shopping on the 50% off day at the thrift store. I actually use CPH ins. I do use American Professional and I think I just renewed and it's about like $300 for the year. So, you know, not bad, but something you absolutely need. And I will say that for sure because I had two incidences with clients that liability insurance is there because it's on, you know, the unpredictability. And they were really supportive, nothing ever came of it. But so yeah, liability insurance definitely want to protect yourself is a must.

C (28:16)

And then the last one is renters insurance because if you're renting your office space, they're going to want you to be insured so that they are not liable. And so the Hartford is the main one I've been using and they are nationwide as far as I understand. So. And they've got super cheap rates. I think I am paying 250, 275 a year and they do 10 month installments and you can pay ahead or pay it all in full or you know, they're really easy to work with. Again, one of those liability things that you just do not want to hold back on. Nobody falls or hey, what if the place burns down? All your shit's gone. Sorry. Am I allowed to swear? Sorry.

B (29:05)

It's okay. We won't edit it out. How about that?

C (29:09)

It's just me, so I mean, I don't. It doesn't bother me any. So, yeah, I mean those are, those are the main things. You know, my whole business started on under $400 is what it comes down to.

B (29:23)

Nice, nice. So it is possible for sure. So Michael, I also know that you have a giveaway for our audience. What is that?

C (29:29)

Yeah, so because it's a shoestring Budget and software is difficult to pay for sometimes. My brother, who's an accountant, actually created a spreadsheet, income based income statement or whatever I call it. I keep forgetting. I apologize. That actually has your whole total right there that you can give to your accountant at the end of the year and say, here's what I made. It's broken down on tabs. So you've kind of got your. You can put your clients, all your information for clients in there. Well, I shouldn't go that far. Put your client name and then you know what happened. You know, you did one hour of service. It was couples, it was individuals, it was insurance, it was cash. And then you put down when you got paid and it actually totals it all up for you as well as all other expenses like liability insurance and rent and marketing and the rest of it. So it's already done for you.

B (30:29)

Nice. And so if you are sharing client information with your cpa, I definitely recommend either doing initials or first name, last initial. And you can have your CPA sign a baa. That would be important. Or you can also identify your client by medical record number to keep things really confidential. And we actually have a free business associates agreement. So I will actually add that into the Show Notes, which Michael actually shared not only a ton on the podcast, but he sent us a list. And I was also taking notes of other things that he hadn't already sent us. So I'm going to add to the resource list as well. And his giveaway will be on the show notes page. So you guys will want to check that out. So what I would like to say is I remember when I first started and some of my things are still on a shoestring budget. And I think that's really important because in order to be successful in any business is you really have to kind of predict what it takes to create a business. And sometimes it takes a year or two to really kind of get steady and know how to market your practice. And so when you're a bit conservative on the initial part, it's really helpful. And you can always, you know, upgrade and evolve. I know Michael kind of shared that a little bit with you guys. Like, you know, he did this, but now he's moving to simple practice and you can add things into your practice. I think what's most important is you get started. I had, I heard this great quote over the weekend. I was at a real estate conference and one of the speakers had said, version none. Our version one is better than version none. So if you are on the fence and you're worried about cost. Hopefully this podcast has inspired you and finding ways to really get started on a low budget. And I also say make sure you start saving for marketing because marketing is really expensive. If you don't have clients coming in your door, you aren't going to be in business long. So that is really important. So Michael, I wanted to say thank you for joining us today and sharing how you got started and a ton of resources, resources that you shared for other folks to get started as well. So we hope you guys join us next time. So what's interesting is we scheduled one podcast with Nicole Stoller Peterson, but we had you guys vote on what you wanted to hear and they were tied consistently throughout the poll. So she's actually going to be giving us two podcasts talking about all about court documents on how to CYA when it comes to court documents and do's and don'ts. So we hope you guys join us next time for that. And we just wanted to say thank you fair winds and group for your shout out. And the shout out was great resources for anyone aspiring to be in private practice. We wanted to thank you for that and we hope that our resources do help you and others. Kate and I love, love, love hearing how these podcasts are helping you because that's really what inspires us to continue to do what we do and love to serve you guys. So Startup Nation, it's always a pleasure. We look forward to seeing you on the next podcast and so thank you for allowing us to inspire you guys from startup to mastery. Take care.

D (33:26)

Thanks for joining us on the Private Practice Startup. Visit the private practices startup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.

C (33:49)

Sam.