C (2:43)

Hey, how are you?

A (2:44)

We are good. And yourself?

C (2:46)

I'm doing good. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm really excited to talk with you guys.

B (2:50)

We're delighted to have you here.

A (2:53)

I gotta ask though, I don't. Am I familiar with Doctor who? I was thinking Dr. Seuss, but no Doctor who.

C (3:00)

Oh my gosh. You know, the TARDIS, the time traveling machine. He's like a. Oh my goodness. I'm gonna send you an email later. I'm gonna give you advice. It's a very long standing series so you have to kind of pick where to start. You have to. There are different actors who have played the Doctor over time, so you have to know which one to start with. I can help you out. Don't worry, I've got you.

A (3:21)

Maybe I do know once you send me this stuff, it'll jog my memory, but at first glance I was like, Dr. Seuss. No, that says doctor.

C (3:29)

It's a great show. You'll love it.

A (3:33)

Well, I guess we're curious as how did you become a web designer helping therapists? What drove you in this direction?

C (3:39)

Yeah, you know, it's interesting the way that life just works and sometimes things take a really natural course. You know, I had at one point in my life actually thought about becoming a therapist, but I really loved design and that was really what I ended up focusing on. And then I got a few clients who were therapists and it just really clicked. Both, you know, in terms of really enjoying working with them and then also really feeling happy about the end result. Because, you know, I just really enjoy working with therapists. I enjoy it because I tend to find that they're very nice people and also because I get a lot of satisfaction out of creating these kinds of sites. I feel like they really are actually doing something that's really important. Both because they help therapists to accomplish their mission and then also because they help the therapist to keep doing what they're doing without burning out. Because it helps their practices to be successful and for them to get the clients that they want.

A (4:35)

So it's always nice to have like raving fans of people like or people who are raving fans of therapists. So we really appreciate that. And I love how you talk about like the website being a support to help therapist or really, I mean, whoever has a website but, you know, continue their mission. And a website is really that. And I mean, there's so much a website can do, but it is a support and helping people with their mission.

B (5:03)

And what a wonderful way for you to help people, help more people. So it sounds like it supports your mission as well.

C (5:09)

Yeah, thanks.

A (5:11)

Let's dive into the topic and let's talk about these four mistakes that therapists might be making on their website, whether they know it or not.

C (5:18)

Yes. And you know, I see this all the time, so I'm happy to have the chance to kind of talk about it a little bit and just give people some pointers that they can really then use to have a more successful site. So I guess the first thing to kind of talk about is that I see a lot of therapist websites that kind of read like a resume. And I think that I totally understand where this comes from because, you know, if you are a therapist, you've had a lot of educational, you know, background, you spent a lot of time in academia, and you've also worked really hard for those credentials. You know, like, you really put a lot of effort into getting those letters after your name. And there's a real feeling, I think, that people a lot of times have, that they have to put those credentials as like the very most important front and center thing on their website because they want to show people how professional they are, how skilled they are, how qualified they are. And the problem is that to another therapist, those credentials are really helpful. But to a layperson, those credentials are kind of meaningless, you know, and they really can actually be off putting because it feels sterile to a person who's coming to a website trying to find information about a person who they're, you know, looking to go to for support, looking at a lot of, you know, I went to such and such a school and I specialize in these specific, you know, very technical things. It doesn't have an emotional impact, it doesn't resonate, and it doesn't help them to understand the experience that they're going to actually have when they come in to see you.

B (6:52)

Right. We couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the things we're emphatic about is helping therapists really get clear on. It's about connecting with people. It's not about like getting on and talking about yourself and all your credentials and the ABC or whatever acronym you have for the model that you provide. It's really about connecting with people and helping them know how you can help them get what they really want. That's one of the things we love talking about our private practice marketing E course. So we love that you're starting off your topic with this important.

C (7:23)

Absolutely. And it's not that your credentials aren't important, it's just that that's not the thing that you need to communicate to a potential client that's going to help them understand what kind of impact you can have on their life. Like those credentials are an important part of who you are, but they're not going to help the person understand what kind of services you can provide, what kind of difference you can make for them.

A (7:46)

Sarah, what is your advice to help therapists in regards to shifting from the thought of sharing all their credentials to engaging with their client?

C (7:57)

Well, I mean, I think sometimes it's really helpful to think about the way that you actually talk to a client in a session because I think that sometimes there's a disconnect. Therapists are wonderful communicators, you know, because that's what you do. You sit and you talk to people and help them through, you know, through language. But when you sit down at your computer, there's kind of this shift that takes place where you're kind of in a different mode and now you're going to write something and it feels more formal. So instead of thinking about how you would write something to kind of explain who you are, think about the way you would talk to a person who was coming in to see you for the first time and the way you might relate to them, the kinds of words that you would use, the kinds of phrases that will come to mind to kind of begin to introduce them to the process that you're going to go through to them in a really easy to understand, non threatening, kind of easy way. So that can be a good mind shift too. And sometimes even just dictating can also be a way to kind of get past that barrier. If you just talk into the recorder on your phone for a couple of minutes and imagine that you're talking to a person rather than think of yourself as sitting down to write something out, sometimes that really helps to find that conversational tone and to, you know, kind of automatically stop using the more technical terms that you might otherwise kind of slip into.

A (9:18)

You're right, because when we go to sit down to write, most often it's like, I gotta explain everything and you know, I have to make it all technical. And it is a hard shift. I know for me in private practice, I remember my first website, and I remember writing the pages for the first website, and I think one page would take me two weeks to write at first, and then I'd have lay people read it and be like, huh? I'm like, oh, I'm missing the mark, you know, and it is a difficult shift, especially, you know, for our doctor friends because of all their dissertation writing, the research, and all that stuff. So it's a definite shift in mindset. I know Kate and I talk about this for our business at the private practice startup. I do a lot of the copywriting because I can do easily that more casual, engaging, where sometimes Kate, she could do it, and she's great at it. But sometimes it's still a hard shift.

B (10:09)

It takes a long time because I've been in school for so long, and I've been trained to write more academically, and it's. I found my voice, and I know how to write in a way that connects with people, but it just takes me a really long time. Katie can sit down at the computer. She's like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. She just types it all out and like, poof.

A (10:29)

A glass of wine or two usually helps. And actually, I think Laura Long did say, when you do copywriting, and that's what happened. Actually, it's funny because on what, Wednesday night? Kate woke up on Thursday morning to some magical email stuff, and I had two glasses of wine and boop, boop, boop. Banged it a lot. Pretty good.

C (10:45)

Yeah.

B (10:46)

We share a brain. I was just gonna share that story, but she shared it for me. So the story about the little magic copywriting elf. Yes. That was fun to wake up to.

C (10:55)

Yes. Great.

A (10:56)

So share with us another mistake that therapists make on their website.

C (11:00)

Absolutely. So another thing that I often see is that there's a tendency people have to talk a lot about themselves and kind of. And I really think, honestly, that this is rooted in insecurity and that people really feel like they have to prove to people and tell them so much about who they are so that people will trust them and then want to come and see them, when, in fact, I think the opposite of that is true. I think that you have to make your website about your client, and the best thing that you can do to help someone understand that you will be able to help them successfully is to talk about the problems that, you know, they have and to talk about it so specifically and with so much empathy and with so much clarity that when they read it they think, oh, this person knows exactly what I'm going through. And so that's kind of the flip that you have to make that the website, even though it's your website, is it can't be about you, it has to be about the client. And you know, this is one of. And this is kind of a separate topic, but that's one of the reasons why niching is important because you want to really have a very specific idea of who it is that you're talking to because you really want to go as much as possible in depth to talk about, you know, what the problems are that that person is experiencing so that they really feel that connection and that feeling of trust that you understand. And also just to talk about things in terms of, you know, when a person comes to see you, what are the changes that they're going to experience? What is the difference going to be, you know, the comparison between, you know, where they are now as opposed to where they could be after, you know, getting help from you and support from you. So those kinds of things really have to be at the heart of the.

A (12:43)

Website, the transformational aspect of where they are now and where they will be. It's interesting because you like steal the words out of my own mouth. I'm sorry. No, no, not, no. It's nice to hear you rebuild. Exactly. Kind of what I say is that I do remember being in that place where I felt I had to prove that I was trustworthy enough or I could help people. And so I would talk a lot about self and Kate and I also do a lot of work with therapists on writing directory profiles and I remember writing the fluffy. I believe in my philosophy and I have this degree and that degree and this education and listen and bullet points and it's so off putting, you know, and it's not warm and fuzzy and if you're not a therapist, no one really cares. But I remember that. And you're right, it comes from that place of just not feeling confident. But also I believe it also comes from not knowing how to market yourself. And that was a shift Kate and I had to make. And now we're wildly passionate about helping other therapists be able to do that because it's possible and it's easy once.

B (13:45)

You know the formula.

C (13:47)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

A (13:50)

Before we jump into tip number three, let's just take a quick break for our sponsor.

B (13:54)

If you're in private practice, you wear a lot of hats and some of those hats are totally great, but some like filing taxes and running payroll for Example not so great. That's where Gusto comes in. They make payroll taxes and HR actually easy for small businesses like your private practice. Fast, simple payroll processing and benefits and expert HR support all in one place. Gusto automatically pays and files your federal, state and local taxes so you don't have to worry about it. Plus they make it easy for you to add on health benefits and even 401ks for you and your team. Let them wear one of your many hats. You have so many better things to do with your time. Listeners get three months free when they run their first payroll. Try a demo and see for yourself@gusto.com PPS that's gusto.com PPS There are so many ways to keep your practice organized, but TherapyNotes is by far the best. They're easy to use, Secure platform, lets you not only do billing, scheduling and progress notes, but also create a client portal to share documents and request signatures. Plus they offer amazing unlimited phone support. So when you have a question, they're there so you can get help fast. Get started with TherapyNotes today, trusted by over 60,000 professionals. Go to therapynotes.com and enter promo code PPS as in Private Practice Startup and you'll get two months for free. Also, you can listen to episode 54 where we interviewed Brad Pleiner and took an in depth view into their ehr.

A (15:27)

So making sure your website doesn't read like a resume and stop talking so much about yourself are definite mistakes. What would number three be?

C (15:35)

So not having a photograph, and ideally more than one photograph of yourself on your website is really a mistake that I think is so common in therapist websites. And again, this is something that I understand and I think it comes from a couple of different places. I think that one, a lot of people just don't like to share photos of themselves and it feels a little. They feel self conscious about it, which I understand. And also I think that sometimes therapists feel a little bit like there's some kind of boundary and they feel like they shouldn't be putting their photos on the site. But the truth is that having a photo of yourself on your site is so absolutely crucial because that's what allows people to really realize that you're a human being who they can relate to. And so having a photo that is something that's approachable, something that looks nice, something that people can kind of get a sense of who you are from seeing that photo is something you really can't get around, like you don't want to skip it. And I always tell People that, you know, ideally, like, you have a really, you know, a couple of really beautiful photos that are professional, and that's what you should really do. And if that's not a possibility for you, so then, you know, it's better to have something than nothing because you really do want to have a way for people to see who you are and to feel that, you know, immediate connection with you based on being able to see your face.

B (16:57)

You know, it's interesting as people go through our private practice marketing E course, and we talk about developing a personal brand and really clear on, like, your personality and your strengths and how you want to show up to your clients and present yourself to the world and the marketing that you're doing. It's interesting how so many people will actually redo their professional photos. And I remember back in the day when Katie and I got our quote, unquote, professional photos done separately. We make fun of ourselves about it. If you could see the pictures, they're hysterical. We look like we're either attorneys, we've got suits on, we never wear suits. And it was part of that, like, feeling like you need to prove yourself and show up in this professional way, but it looks so rigid, and it wasn't on brand with how we show up in the therapy room. And when you allow yourself to really get clear on your brand and your personal and allow that to shine authentically and people can actually see that through your photos and they're professionally taken, it's really powerful. It really does help to have good quality professional photos on your site. I agree.

C (17:53)

And I always say that websites are really about connection and that what they do is they form a connection between you and a person who hasn't met you in real life, but they give that person enough ways to feel comfortable with you that then they can reach out and start to get to know you for real. And. And having a photo is just an indispensable part of that process.

A (18:12)

And I would like to add, and I want to kind of get on my photo soapbox for a second just because I want to. Please. No photos of you in the car. Like, don't do a selfie in the car with the seatbelt on. Don't cut someone else out of your photo like you're at a party and now half of your shoulders cut off. No blurry photos. And don't put anything weird in your photos. Kate and I were perusing Psychology Today one day, and there was this picture of this woman and an owl. Like, I don't. There was, like, no relevance. Like, you know, I get, like, if you're an equine therapist and you have a picture with your horse. I get that. Or you work with emotional support animals. Like, that stuff makes sense, but don't do, like, weird things.

C (18:51)

Like, it.

A (18:52)

It's off putting, it's odd. And also, in the words of Simon Sinek, it just doesn't feel right. So our brain works so quickly that we make decisions based off on our feelings. We don't even have to logically understand. But if you have things that are odd or weird, people will jump off.

B (19:07)

The weirdest, creepiest photo we saw as we're doing some happens to be, like, pretty close to our area. It was so creepy, you guys. You're not even gonna believe it. You're probably gonna fall out of your chair when you hear this. Actually had a naked photo of himself and he was all hairy and it was like, pop up.

A (19:27)

It wasn't showing the genitals.

B (19:29)

Kate.

A (19:29)

Let's be clear.

B (19:30)

I hadn't got there yet. I'm just activating the odds. So it's a naked photo from, like, the top up, but it's like, you can see his chest hair and it's like, oh, it's so creepy. And, hey, come work with me. I don't.

C (19:43)

Ugh.

B (19:44)

Anyways, that was an epic failure, photo wise.

A (19:47)

Yeah, I remember also, there was, like, some guy playing a piano before, and it's like, what does that have to do with anything? It doesn't make sense. Like, he wasn't a music, like, therapy person. Like, guys, make your photos make sense. Your phone can take good pictures, have a good background, dress up like you usually do. It can work. And, like, what Sarah's saying is, like, have something up there, but don't just go in your phone's gallery and pick the first thing that's there and put it up there. No bueno, folks.

C (20:13)

Yes, absolutely.

A (20:15)

Okay, I'm done off my. Let me get down off my hand. Okay. I stepped down off my photo soapbox.

B (20:22)

Okay.

A (20:24)

Anything else from you, Sarah, about photos?

C (20:26)

No, I mean, just adding onto that one thing that I actually had a similar experience. So I'm a mom. As I mentioned in the introduction, one of my kids needed to see a foot doctor. And so my pediatrician gave me a list of referrals. And I think this is something interesting to think about too, because a lot of people say, well, I'm not sure if I need a website because I get a lot of clients through referrals. And referrals are fantastic. And a Great source of business. But I thought it was very interesting just because it was my own experience. I got this list of referrals and there were like five or six names on it. And so the first thing I do is go to the Internet and start looking at people's websites. And I went through a number of these different medical professionals and one of them had a picture that was so scary. I was like, this guy's gonna scare my kid to death. I'm not gonna take my kid to see this person. And then ended up moving all the way down to one of the very last ones on the list. And it was just such an interesting experience because I stopped and I thought, this is what it's like when people give out referrals and then someone's trying to actually pick a medical professional. The first thing they do is they take that list and they look online and they get an impression of who you are based on your website, based on your photo, based on the information that's available to them. And you know, they might even say to you, if you ask, how did you find me? They'll say, oh, I got a referral. But the truth is, yes, they got a referral. But the referral only worked because when they looked you up, what they found was professional and inviting and warm. It made them feel like they could go ahead and make that appointment. So I think it's just an interesting illustration of the point.

A (22:03)

Yeah. And what I hear you saying is that even though maybe you might be a therapist and you are on insurance panels, is that having, as Kate and I say, a high converting, attractive website is really essential because that could be the make or break for you.

C (22:16)

Yes, absolutely. You can't just assume that those referrals are automatically going to come.

A (22:20)

Yeah, I think back in the day, you know, I remember, you know, you would go to your medical book and you'd flip through the pages and you like, look for people's like names that look nice. I know, don't. Whatever that meant to you. Right. And that's how you pick because you really don't know. And websites back in the day weren't around as much, but yeah, consumers have a lot of power now and they look and they check you out and they check your reviews and there's so many places that they do cross reference before they make a decision to call you.

C (22:46)

Yeah, people are really nowadays so used to googling things and looking things up and doing research in advance. If they google you and find something that off putting or find nothing at all, it can really hurt you.

A (23:00)

Totally.

B (23:01)

Let us know what tip number four is. I'm curious.

C (23:03)

Yes. So tip number four is not having your website mobilized for use on mobile devices. And just in case there are some people who don't know what that means, all that it means is that when you build a website, you want to build it in such a way as it doesn't matter. Someone looks at it on a desktop computer screen, it'll look beautiful. And if someone looks at your website from their cell phone, it will still look beautiful and that it will resize all of the content automatically so that it look equally good on any device. And it's so crucial. Now studies are showing that about 60% of people are looking at websites through their phones, and that number is going to go up rather than down.

B (23:42)

I was just having this conversation yesterday with someone. He had just realized that he had his website up for about three months. He's very proud of all the work he's done and how it all looks. And then he discovered that, oh, there's a little place that you can click to see the mobile view. And the mobile view on his website was all jacked up. And he's wondering why he's not getting as many clients as he had hoped. And so many people go to the phone to look. I know I do. From the phone and looking for options there. And if it's jacked up and looks all messed up, it's going to completely sabotage 100%.

C (24:16)

And Google now uses their evaluation of your site, whether or not it's optimized for mobile as one of the ways it determines where you rank. Which means if you. If Google looks at your site and says this is going to be unpleasant for people to look at through their mobile devices, they'll move you down in the rankings. And so it'll be that much harder for people to even find your site to begin with. So having something that is friendly for all devices is just really, really important. And it's something that a lot of people miss.

A (24:46)

Totally. And I'm sure they can miss it too, if they're diying it. And for me, I know Kate was. We share this all the time. Kate's built seven websites. Me, I get blank in the brain and I start to sweat when it comes to tech. And so I have always outsourced that. And here's the thing is, like these little things that are so important is like a layperson, unless you're an expert web designer, you don't necessarily know now there's platforms that assure that those things happen. But you know, things, websites just kind of the face and then you have the SEO and you know, connecting Google, my business and all those things are really important. So if you don't know it and you don't want to take the time and energy to really figure it all out, I definitely recommend outsourcing it. I outsource most tech stuff. Truth be told, I know where my strengths are and I stay in my sandbox.

C (25:32)

Yes, absolutely, Absolutely.

A (25:35)

Sarah, it's been great chatting with you about these four mistakes and we really appreciate you resounding the words that we often talk about. And it's always great to hear it directly though from a web designer. What do you hope that people take away from your message today?

C (25:47)

I hope that they just take away the idea that your website really is kind of about the clients and that there are lots of ways that you can make your website a tool that's going to be really powerful to help you help more people and to also help your practice to really thrive and do well and for you to have the kind of practice that you want.

A (26:06)

Awesome. And I know that you have a giveaway for our audience. What is that?

C (26:09)

Yes. So I have a mini video course about web design and websites specifically for therapists and it talks a lot about some other concepts that you can really take and then use on your own site to help your site be successful. And that's on my website. You can sign up for it. It's a three part video course and it's free and I hope that people will take advantage.

B (26:29)

Cool.

A (26:30)

What's the name of your website?

C (26:32)

It's Strong Roots Web Design.

B (26:34)

Cool.

A (26:34)

And we'll of course put that on our show notes page. So Sarah, thanks so much for being here with us today and really supporting therapists in Startup Nation because we know that they do have awesome missions and a lot of times you need to know how to market and having that website is that first introduction and Kate and I talk about that as a non negotiable when it comes to marketing websites. A non negotiable. So it is your first introduction, your first face, your first connection, most often with a potential client and we want to assure that you guys are doing that very well. We hope you guys join us next week. I am stoked about our next guest, which is Mike Michalowicz. He is coming back on the podcast. You might know Mike Michalowicz as we gush. And most of actually the whole practice building community talks about profit first. So Mike is coming back to talk about his book Clockwork, how to make your business run like clockwork. So you're gonna want to join us for that podcast. And I don't know, Mike is just a funny guy. If you've read any of his books, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm from up north. I just totally relate to his humor. So join us for that podcast. You're not going to want to miss out.

B (27:39)

And let's take a moment for our superhero shout out for today's episode. Just want to say thank you to Rebecca Stone. She gave us a review and said Kate and Katie are wonderful. They're knowledgeable, inspiring and all around good people. They're invested in helping others start and scale their practices and are shining examples of an amazing team and business operation. Thanks so much Rebecca. We really appreciate your feedback. We love hearing from you guys. It is the inspiration that keeps us inspired to keep plugging along and providing these episodes for you. And of course we always want to hear how these are going. If there's topics that you guys want to hear, definitely let us know. And we encourage you to subscribe, rate and review our show. We hope you enjoyed today's episode with Sarah. Thank you so much. It was great having you here.

C (28:20)

Thanks so much for having me.

A (28:22)

And as always, Startup Nation. Have an awesome and inspired day. Take care.

B (28:27)

Thanks for joining us on the Private Practice Startup Startup. Visit the private practices startup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.

C (28:56)

Sam.