B (2:59)

Yeah, right, right. Well, you know, I think we do take. We take in the energy around us, and that's kind of my jam, too. When stuff gets stressful, I'm like, let me organize something. I think that's why I like planners and stickers and all those kinds of things, because of my crafty soul. But it actually can be really calming, and it can be really a good guidepost and sort of structure for us to work within. So thank you so much for loving it, But I'm not going to show you what's under it right now.

A (3:27)

All that matters is what's in the.

B (3:29)

Shot of the video, that little frame. Yeah. Well, I'm super excited to be with you guys today. You know, this idea of referral networks, Gosh, so many clinicians, when they hear network, go, ah, you know, I don't want to go network. I'm an introvert, or, you know, I'm not good at selling myself. And when I'm coaching with clinicians, those are some of the, like, refrains that I hear, like, I mean, without fail, every single time. So, you know, this idea that there can be really, like, a goldmine of information right under our noses that we're not taking advantage of is really important. So I'm really glad to talk with you guys about it today.

A (4:07)

We are happy you're talking with us, too. And I'm just curious, how do you reframe that whole networking thing when people.

B (4:13)

Are like, yeah, it's such a great question. Because we are professional relationship builders, right? Like, we sit in a room every day, all day, and build relationships. We don't have a business if we can't create therapeutic rapport. Right? So I really reframe it just with that. Because this whole networking thing, whether it's at a networking event in your community, whether it's other therapists, whether it's a physician or a psychiatrist, it's really just building another Relationship, it's in a different context. And we can psych ourselves out so hard over this, right? Like I'm no good at selling. They're going to think I'm not smart enough because I'm not a doctor or I mean, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I think we've all had those thoughts, right? So to really think about it and just like, this is me doing what I'm good at, which is creating relationships for a specific purpose, it really takes some of the pressure off ourselves. And I think that pressure and some of that internal horrible narrative that goes on is what kills us in this space.

A (5:19)

I thought you might say something like that and that's definitely what I would say. I also think though, there's this kind of structure a lot of times with networking. Especially like if it's like a BNI or something like that, that's kind of set up to build longer term relationships and make sense. But I feel like there's this pressure. It's like you have to meet as many people and tell exactly what you do and then people want to give your business card. And it's funny because I remember, you know, when I was kind of networking more with like kind of everybody in the community, which was a waste of time, right? There was this guy that kept coming and he literally would walk around and like hand his business card out. And I am so turned off by that. And Kate is too. And it's like the worst thing. And I really believe, I don't believe in business cards. I believe in relationships. And it's so funny because he opened up and I know this because he's in marketing, he's in print marketing. He opened up like a warehouse or whatever close by us. And I'll drive by once in a while. I'm like, never do business with him because I'm so turned off by just him. He might have a great product and he might do marketing really well, but just to constantly see him and it's like he's not even asking about you, he's just trying to put the card in your hand.

B (6:25)

And I'm like, yeah, that's the gross fact, right? That's the thing that is so important. If nothing else is heard today, hear this for your listeners, is that sales does not equal marketing and marketing does not equal sales, right? Like, marketing is all about creating a relationship and showing that you can empathize, understand, relate and that you can have some subject matter expertise in what that pain point is for your ideal client. Or your ideal referral source. Right. Like, my ideal client is somebody who's anxious, may have a little bit of insight already, or believes in counseling. Right. And the usefulness of it. But that's not going to be every patient that walks into their GP's office and says, oh, man, I can't sleep at night, I'm so distracted. Right. So really understanding what my referral source is looking for in terms of being able to refer out and looking for my ideal client, looking for in their pain points is really important. And that's way different than shoving my card down everybody's throat at the meeting. Right. And telling you about how many, you know, my goals are and I want this many clients and I want. I have this financial. That's about me. Right. It makes my jump turn. I call it the gross factor. Right.

C (7:43)

Like, totally.

B (7:44)

If we're building relationships and we're grossing people out because we can't tell them enough about me, me, me, you know, that message is all wrong. The message should be, I understand what it's like to feel so distracted with anxiety that you can't think straight, you can't accomplish anything. I know what that feels like. Right. That's a whole different experience.

A (8:05)

Yeah. And as you're talking, I'm thinking about, like. Like the dating world, Right. So if you were like, on a first date and you're like, I expect to be married by 30 with two kids and I want to make this amount of money, like, that's like how people come off with networking and it makes you want to run and you would run from that first date. I actually did have a first date one time where the gu said something like, do you like fish? We're at dinner or something like that. Not really. And he's like, well, you better like fish if you're going to marry a Pisces. And I'm like, we're not going out any other time again.

B (8:34)

Yeah.

C (8:36)

And it's just.

B (8:37)

It's so astonishing how, you know, that gets missed so often. And I think, you know, sort of to dovetail into that. We can put so much pressure on ourselves with our own targets and our own goals that we lose sight of the gifts and the skills and the talents that we do have. And in that reframe mindset, this is building relationships. And when I can focus on that, we're going to grow. So what I like to do is tell people some of the things. Some of the best places that are hidden in plain sight are your intake forms and your website, Contact me form A lot of people have on their intake forms, how did you hear about me? Some people will fill that in and some people won't. But there's other fields that we can have in our intake form. And by the way, if you don't have a how did you hear about me? Field, please add one. But, you know, did you have a previous counselor? Have you worked with other counselors? Do you have a primary care physician? Are you seeing a psychiatrist or any sort of specialty care provider? You know, cardiologist, endocrinologist? There could be a lot of them. And when we start collecting that information, we start to really generate a huge pool of referral sources for ourselves. The problem is, I think, for a lot of people, as we get so caught up in that horrible narrative, you're no good at selling. Remember, you're just an lpc. They're an MD or whatever it sounds like in your head. We avoid it. We're like, nope, forget it. I'll do it later. That's mine. When I know I'm really avoiding something, I am so tired or I am so busy, I try to pay attention to that for myself. If we can start really collecting that information, then we have some referral sources that we can really tap into. I'm a huge proponent of continuity of care. Sometimes we don't think about that either. We get sort of mired down in, I got to do my notes, I got to get more clients, I got to do treatment plans. I got to think about what I'm doing in this next session. That's a lot, but it's super. Go ahead.

C (10:45)

I'm agreeing with everything that you're saying. I thought you were taking a break for a moment. Sorry to talk over you there. Yeah. Everything you're talking about here in terms of the referral network that's hiding in plain sight is so true. And for those who are uncomfortable with marketing and with sales and networking and building relationships and all that stuff professionally, this is a great place to start because it's organic. It only makes sense that you're going to reach out and you're going to collaborate for that continuity of care. Not only is it in your client's best interest, but it's in your best interest interest, too, as you're. It's like going through the back door. It's not like cold calling or having to walk into this practitioner's office, and you got to warm up with the gatekeeper, with the office manager, and like, slowly work your way in. And that stuff takes so much time. So when you can go in the back door and it's just that organic connecting and building value and really genuinely helping, that makes so much sense. It really takes a lot of that pressure off too.

B (11:43)

Right. It's huge. You can literally feel it come off your shoulders. Because that's another question when I'm coaching with folks, because I do so much of the business coaching with people in private practice. And that's one of the main questions I get probably like the top three, like, well, how do you get past the front desk? Well, right off the bat then I know we're not leveraging all the information that you have at your fingertips. Because if you go straight to the provider and you send that email, forget hipaa, right? Send your consent for release of information and you send that straight to the provider, there's no front desk to deal with, right? You're in right away, immediately. So it does take off a lot of the pressure and you can start cultivating that relationship and you hit the nail on the head, which is it's not just good for us from a referral network source, but we need their input because as we're developing treatment plans and as we're measuring therapeutic outcomes, boy, how awesome is that to be able to pick up the phone and call the primary care doc and say, I'm seeing some improvement here, but I'm seeing something different on this side. Are you seeing that when you had your last med checkup? You know, it's invaluable, Definitely super supportive of the client.

A (12:54)

Before we continue, let's just take a quick break.

C (12:56)

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A (13:39)

Knowing you need legal, ethical and competent paperwork is overwhelming, time consuming and let's face it, expensive. We're clinicians, not lawyers. We put in 100 plus hours of work scouring through the laws and ethics and paid thousands of dollars in expensive attorney's fees. So you don't have to save yourself time, money and headaches.

C (13:58)

We're Kate and Katie from the Private Practice startup and we invite you to experience the quality of our paperwork with our HIPAA form as our gift to you. Go to privatepracticestartup.com head over to our Resources tab and download the free HIPAA form today. You can also shop our a la carte and paperwork options under the paperwork tab. Enjoy.

A (14:19)

All right, so where are other things hiding in plain sight?

B (14:24)

Yeah. So another place that is really important is your web contact me form. If you don't there also have how did you hear about me? And and have it as a required field that should probably be updated. And with all of these fields, it's not enough just to collect and then reach out one time. We really have to cultivate a plan and a way to monitor this for ourselves and hold ourselves accountable. Because like I said, it's really easy to get, oh, I'm too busy, I'm too tired, I got too many notes to do and all those kinds of things that will get in our way. So to be really intentional about how do we move forward, how do we keep track of this, who are my best referral sources? Right. I had a psychiatrist one time who sent me a few referrals and we were kind of sort of venturing into this together in terms of like, is this going to be a good fit? And after about the third person that felt like wasn't a good fit, I decided, you know, those twice a year visits I make in person, I'm probably just going to send her some information and talk to her on the phone instead of go to her office. Because it just wasn't a good fit, really, for either of us. But the only way we can know to do that and to make those changes and to know where we're investing our energy is if we're really tracking it and holding ourselves accountable and measuring it. Does that make sense?

C (15:36)

It's so important. Yeah. Actually, Katie and I were recording a level up video yesterday for this Q and A series that we do on Facebook, answering Startup Nation's questions, and someone was asking about how do you know what the best referral sources are to invest in? And we really believe in that. Pareto's rule, the 8020 rule, where 80% of your results are going to come from 20% of your effort. So when you're actually taking that information, you're getting the data of who the referral relationships are and actually tracking and measuring to see which are your top 20, then you can be more strategic and really investing in those relationships and nurturing them over time and giving them value and making sure that you're being most useful because it's so important to do that.

B (16:19)

Absolutely. I 100% agree and would add on to that that one of the key ingredients in the investment, your time and your energy. And to me, there's nothing better that says I'm invested in this than showing up in person. I hear so many clinicians really want to circumvent that. How can I do this and build the relationship without having to go? And I just think the return on your investment and the time and energy that you make to see a person and shake their hand and look them in the eyeballs is so much greater than just like you were talking about earlier, Kate, just let me drop off a packet of cards or send the thank you note. Those are all great. But when you can go, I mean, think about it for yourself, right? If I'm going to refer out, I'm going to be way more likely to refer to Katie if I've shaken her hand and looked her in the eyes versus if I just had this random stack of cards left on my front desk. Right. And it's free. I mean, it takes some time and it takes some energy. But so many clinicians. I had a clinician I was consulting with one time and she paid hundreds of dollars to have her name, website and logo on, like the little. Wish I had one, a little sack that you pick your prescriptions up at the grocery store in. And she got a couple calls. They were not good fits.

C (17:35)

Right.

B (17:36)

And so it cost her a lot of money. And there was no return on that investment versus this energy investment and the relationship investment. It's actually going to come to fruition and be much more worth it.

A (17:47)

And when you're showing up, like people can put a name to the face and you become more memorable. And part of marketing really is. And we talk about branding and being memorable. Like one of the things that Kate and I, it actually brings us a lot of joy is that we really like to do very personalized gifts, surprise gifts, most often just to, you know, a lot of our colleagues and friends, especially through the private practice startup. I know one day I don't even, I don't know if I did this strategically, but for. So Perry from Brighter Vision, the owner of Brighter Vision, we were talking with him and I don't know if we wanted to send him a gift or just happen in conversation, but we found out that he loves the Michigan Wolverines happen in conversation. And he had shared with us that he was getting ready to grill, so we sent him this really cool grilling Michigan Wolverines set. And it's just so cool to send that as a surprise. And it's a lot of fun, but it is. It's because it's a relationship built over time, and we value those relationships. And so when you are marketing to folks who hold a lot of your ideal client, it is really important to identify people who really enjoy but also be personable and be memorable. That's really important.

B (18:53)

Yes, absolutely. Like, that authenticity factor is so important because, you know, in this business, we are our brand. Right. And so the gift baskets that I take or the little packages that I take to the folks that I'm networking with and building my referral network with, you know, it's branded me. It's like, if you think of Oreos, if I said, hey, Kati, what's an Oreo package look like? Boy, you know, you're going to be able to tell me whether you eat a lot of Oreos or not. You know, it's a blue package, they're brown cookies with cream icing, you know, or cream filling. So it's sort of that same way, like, you want people to know what to expect from us, and that is part of a relationship. Right. And you think of a friend. I know what to think of my friend Jen or my friend Roxanne, if I'm calling them. I know what to expect, and that's what we're creating, too.

A (19:39)

One of the important things that you touched on, and I just really want to hammer it home, is that contact form is so important. And I see a lot of therapists kind of. It's like, name, maybe phone numbers required, and maybe messages are required. That is a really important place. First off, when I think about the initial calls is you don't want to be talking through email because a lot of times people first ask, oh, what are your fees?

B (20:01)

Right.

A (20:01)

And you really want to be able to build a relationship. So having those required things is essential to do. Don't skip it. I know. It's interesting because so many things in business, when you make these little small tweaks, they can really make a huge difference. So I like that you're saying, who referred you my way? Or how did you hear about me? It's essential.

B (20:20)

Yeah. And sometimes what can happen, too, is people are vague because you don't have that relationship yet. Right. So friend or my doctor. And so the good news is, well, if that's on your intake form too, and this person is coming to see you, then you've had one touch point, right. You've exchanged some emails, probably had a phone call. Then you have this on your intake form. And if it's still vague, then if they're doing your intake form, they're going to be in your office, then you can still have that conversation. And I really drill into that because this shared connection that we have is helping us connect. So it's really multifaceted in terms of why it's important. And so, yeah, I think it's so overlooked. And because, spoiler alert, we're not trained to be marketing and business professionals in our clinical training. I happen to have an MBA in strategic management from my previous life. I came into this a little differently. But this idea that if we start thinking about all these things, I got to do, I got to do, I got to do, we're overwhelmed and I'm shutting down. That happens to all of us, I think. So when we can start small and take this stuff that's literally hiding in plain sight and grow from there, we start, you know, I like to say, small bites often. Right. We start to get engaged with ourselves and we start to not be quite so afraid of it, or we still might be uncomfortable. Right. But we can do it anyway. And those are such important skill sets to grow. And that's one of the reasons I created the Primed Planner, was because I wanted sort of a fun, engaging, colorful way for clinicians to stay on top of all of the these different relationships that we're trying to manage and grow. Yes, our schedules too, but, you know, the business side of things and our self care a lot of times just falls off of the radar for us. And so I really wanted to create a tool that didn't feel so stuffy or intimidating, but that would really keep us engaged in that small, buy often sort of mentality.

A (22:16)

Yeah. So what other things are hiding right in plain sight?

B (22:20)

You know, I think, you know, your local community can really, even on Facebook and online. But, you know, I'm a fan of, of course, like I said, being a face and a name together and showing up in person. So look at your local community, look at your library. There's lots of community resources there. There's lots of groups or activities that can go on, really get involved in those. And most of the time they're free. I think it was Oprah that said you get in life what you have the courage to ask for. Right. So when you see these little health fairs Going on in your local community, work with a local hospital, check with your local doctor's offices, go to the senior center. Right. Go to the community center. There's so many free activities that go on in our communities for people around us and oftentimes all we need to do is find them and then ask to be involved. And when we do that, you start representing your brand, you start cultivating relationships and who knows where those are going to take you. Right. So again, showing up and being involved and starting to small and looking at what's immediately around you, I think is super helpful and just gets missed a lot.

A (23:31)

And I would like to add with that just because like I said, when I started networking for my private practice, I would do everything and that's not the idea. Right. So if you do work with seniors, then it would make sense to do a senior center. Right. If you work with youth, then you want to position yourself going to the youth fairs and things like that, but also being consistent because just showing up one time for one fair and not doing it again or not, then following up with the contacts, that's really important. One of the things that I always is, I don't feel like it's as important for me to give a business card because I always make it my responsibility to follow up. And nowadays I tell people like, just email me so I can have your information electronically. Because like if it's a therapist or someone else I would refer to, I said, then when I refer out, I could just send your information. But I always assure that I have their contact information and really want to follow up. But when you're going to these like workshops, events and things like that is really being of value and showing up authentically as yourself. That's really what people are attracted to. And sometimes it's not a conversation about what you do, but just getting to know people. Like you're saying Michelle is like we're relationship building experts. And so, you know, to ease that discomfort of the networking idea, it's just about getting to know people. Like you do that every day.

B (24:42)

That's right. Every day at work and in your personal life. Right. So if we can really kind of boil it down and take all that pressure off ourselves, then I think we start to see all the things that are around us that you know right now without with having all that pressure, we miss. Right. The things that are in plain sight. So, you know, it's really important to leverage that. And I think we miss sort of, you know, when you think of relationships, Brene Brown says You can't hot wire connection. Right. And we can't do that in business either. So really to slow down and kind of start at the foundation level is really important.

A (25:18)

Any final tips?

B (25:20)

You know, I just want to remind people like you were just saying, you know, we are relationship building experts. You cannot buy credibility, you cannot buy trust, you cannot buy the relationship. So especially when you're talking about somebody who's working on their mental care, mental health care, and you know, it's worth the investment and it's really the only way you can really cultivate that really authentic relationship. So, you know, I would just encourage people to think about marketing as building relationships. And you know, your passion and what you've trained for is to be successful in your practice. And so give yourself space to do that.

A (26:00)

Awesome. So some of the things you talked about today was really assuring that you have the who referred you, making it the required. The information on your contact and your intake forms is really important. Building relationships, we've highlighted that a lot today and really looking at your local community networking and participating in those. And what do you really hope that people take away from your message today, Michelle?

B (26:21)

You know, I really want people to think about those small foundational building blocks that are actually huge. And I want you to think about what tools do I have in place or what can I do to get organized and have a way to track this information and follow up with these people. And you know, like you said, it's not a one time thing. This is a dynamic, fluid relationship. So think about a plan. You know, be intentional about how you move forward in cultivating these relationships and set that out for yourself and then follow it because it's going to really propel you, I think to flourish. Nice.

A (26:55)

And I know you actually do have a giveaway for our audience to help them with that.

B (26:59)

What is that? Yes, I would love for anybody who's interested and wants to learn more to go to my website. You can use the PPS2019 code and you go to theprimedpractice.com shop and there is a printable download there that you can download to start to get planful and intentional about how you're going to move forward. There is five columns for weekly planning about reaching out to following up gratitudes and things of that nature. The title of it is Month week layout. So I would love for you to check it out and try it out and see if it helps you get organized and planful about your networking.

A (27:39)

Awesome. Well, we so appreciate having you on our podcast today talking about these things that are so important, especially for our folks who want to utilize networking as a way to market. And we hope you guys join us next week as we actually speak with Eric Red of ado and he's going to be sharing with us how to grow and scale your group practice. So you're definitely not going to want to miss that. Kate, what about our Startup Nation superhero shout out?

C (28:05)

Yes, our shout out for today's episode comes from Jennifer A. Jennifer says these are two amazing humans. I do not know them personally, but just by listening to their podcast you know if you are needing real life advice on private practice and want to feel a connection, you definitely need to listen to them. Jennifer, thank you so much for your kind words and we hope that you're finding value in our podcast episodes. If you guys have episodes that you haven't heard yet, topics that you'd love to hear, definitely let us know. We're always open to your feedback and it's so cool when we hear these little, these messages from you guys that just kind of, it's like the gift that keeps us inspired to keep inspiring you and keep creating content. And thank you for your support along the way. Definitely subscribe, rate and review. If you're enjoying our show, share with your friends and colleagues and we'll see you on our next episode.

A (28:56)

Yes, we will see you then. And like Kay said, I just wanted to say when you guys send us these little messages, you know, sometimes we don't always get great messages. Sometimes people are mean or they just not liking what we do. So when you guys do send these, it really is the stuff that keeps us going. So we greatly, greatly appreciate that and really it's more about also celebrating you and your wins and your successes. Thanks again Startup Nation. So as we say, have an awesome and inspired day and we'll catch you next time. Take care everybody.

C (29:23)

Bye guys. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more. Sam.