Episode 162: Scaling Your Private Practice

Summary

Private Practice Startup Podcast

Episode 162: Scaling Your Private Practice

Date: November 16, 2019
Hosts: Dr. Kate Campbell & Katie Lemieux
Guests: Eric Red (Co-founder, Addo Recovery/Atto Network) & Shauna Roberts, LMFT (Co-founder, Bridges Counseling Center)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the challenges and solutions around scaling a private/group therapy practice. The conversation pairs expert business developer Eric Red from Atto Network—a company providing business support for scaling therapy clinics—with therapist and Atto Network client Shauna Roberts, LMFT, who shares her direct experience transitioning her busy group practice to a scalable, thriving business. The episode unpacks logistical, mindset, and operations hurdles faced by therapists, and how strategic partnership and support can turn burnout into sustainable growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins & Rationale for Atto Network

[03:32–05:44]

• Eric Red explains how after building his own large clinics (Addo Recovery) and popular digital therapy brands, he saw the scalability limitations and expense of expansion through new clinics.
• Realizes the untapped potential lies in partnering with existing clinicians and providing the business backend they lack.
  • "Clinicians aren't taught business skills and scaling of business skills in school. So we thought, well, we're pretty good at that." – Eric [04:40]

2. Shifting from Solo to Supported Practice

[07:49–09:31]

• Atto’s main services: always-available client communication, optimizing little-things (cancellation management, scheduling, collections), and enhancing client experience.
• Business systems help steady growth, better financial margins, and set standards for client-therapist relationships.
  • "We believe that everything is therapeutic for the client. If a therapist isn't holding to their policies, that teaches the client the same." – Eric [08:16]

3. The Therapist’s Perspective: Shauna’s Story

[10:14–14:43]

• Shauna Roberts shares that she and her co-founder Shelly went from a one-stop shop, seeing 40 clients a week and burning out, to specialized group practice focusing on addiction and trauma.
• Meeting Atto allowed them to shift from endless admin to focusing on therapy and program development.
  • "We just didn't have the infrastructure. We didn't have the platform, technology, or manpower. And it was a match made in heaven." – Shauna [10:39]
  • "All those things that therapists don't have time to do, I don't have to do them anymore. I never want to go back." – Shauna [13:33]

4. Revenue Transformation and Mindset Shift

[13:01–14:39]

• Shauna used to see 40+ clients/week at a too-low fee, fearing fee increases. Atto reviewed all rates and aligned them with market value, handling the process and communication with clients seamlessly.
• "They bumped up our rates, first of all, which we had not been brave enough to do, and we should have done because we weren't charging enough." – Shauna [13:10]
• Result: Fewer clients, higher revenue, new hires, and more time for self-care and business development.

5. Relieving Admin and Revenue Leakages

[19:58–22:49]

• Atto provides billing, insurance collections, and a tracking system for all client communication. Eliminates Chasing overdue payments.
  • "I never had to do [billing]. I got to stop phoning people...They do that. I don't have to do that anymore." – Shauna [19:58]
  • Eric outlines technology stack (12–15 systems), especially Zendesk for transparent, HIPAA-compliant client records and tracking.

6. Scaling Services and Expanding Offerings

[28:48–30:14]

• Atto has helped Bridges Counseling branch into yoga therapy, neurofeedback, and group therapy.
• Offers marketing, advertising, reputation management, and community outreach support (e.g., Net Promoter Score surveys, community presentations).
  • "We support group practices in developing additional programs and products... It's really maximizing the revenue in all areas." – Eric [22:12]
  • "Reputation management is really a longer term approach...and we compile all that feedback into a report." – Eric [30:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scarcity Mentality:
  "Sometimes there's a scarcity mentality with therapists... let's just get you in. With Shauna...her demand exceeded her supply. So we did an audit of all the clients and bumped them all up to that 130 range." – Eric Red [17:06]

• Therapist Limitation & Letting Go:
  "Don't be afraid to ask for help and recognize that you can't do it all as a therapist... It doesn't work, in my opinion." – Shauna Roberts [24:03]

• Business System Reality:
  "If we have to rely on a therapist to do it, it probably won't work." – Eric Red [20:38]
  "A business is a system that should run without you." – Katie Lemieux, reframing Eric’s comment [23:03]

• Iterative Growth & Customization:
  "We don't know, we ask, and we listen...It's more just a lot of little tweaks along the way." – Eric Red [25:56]
  "The branding was a big thing...Now we brand with the clinic; we're just an extension of those brands." – Eric Red [27:54]

• Impact and Invitation:
  "If you're a therapist that wants to build an asset...10, 20 years down the road, you want to be able to step away and have it continue to provide revenue and income for you, I think we're probably a good fit for you." – Eric Red [33:05]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |------------------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 03:32–05:44 | Eric’s path to Atto and the clinician/partner model | | 07:49–09:31 | Specific business systems & client management | | 10:14–14:43 | Shauna’s transformation story and impact | | 17:06–19:46 | Revenue, mindset, and collection improvements | | 19:58–22:49 | Tech stack & revenue cycle management | | 24:03–24:46 | Mindset shift: Admitting you can’t (and shouldn’t) do it all | | 25:56–27:54 | Customizing partnerships; branding, systems, and growing pains | | 28:48–30:14 | Marketing, reputation management, and outreach support | | 33:05–34:06 | Final takeaways & invitations for contact |

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How Listeners Can Learn More or Connect

• Atto Network Website: addonetwork.com (Case studies, services, video overviews)
• Shauna Roberts Contact:
  • Email: [e-mail]
  • Phone: [phone] (call/text, offered for peer discussion about Atto)

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Main Takeaways & Closing Advice

• Therapists excel at clinical work but often struggle with business admin, billing, and scaling.
• Strategic partnerships and systems can free clinicians for true impact, self-care, and innovation.
• Don’t fear raising rates or professionalizing collections—clients value the therapist’s services.
• Don’t try to do it all; focusing on core strengths and delegating the rest leads to sustainable growth.

"Focus on what you're really, really good at and then allow someone else to step in and offset those deficits or those areas where you aren't super strong, and that will allow you to grow your practice." – Shauna Roberts [34:06]

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Transcript

[Podcast Host (Intro)]

Welcome to the Private Practice Startup Podcast where we help ambitious private practitioners across the globe to brand themselves and grow their dream practices. We chat with successful private practitioners, business coaches and marketing experts bringing you tons of practice building Ninja tips. Visit privatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, attorney approved private practice paperwork and our signature marketing E course. Here are your co hosts Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux.

[Katie Lemieux]

Hey there startup. Welcome back to another episode of the Private Practice Startup Podcast. We are excited for you guys to join us. Actually, we're always excited for you guys to join us. We are going to be talking today about scaling your clinic or your group practice and we actually have two guests with us and we have Eric Red and Eric was involved in early development stages of a large insurance marketing company in Portland, Oregon. In a few years Eric was promoted to Director of Business development support and the company's growth for over 24 million to well over $100 million in sales. And then he shifted things a little bit. In 2006, Eric Co founded Atto Recovery, building highly recognized and sought after therapy clinics in Utah and Nevada. And Eric's developed the Atto Network, a company supporting therapists in scaling their clinics by managing the entire client experience. They currently work with a select group of clinics throughout the US And Shawna Roberts is one of those clinics. So we thought it would be a really cool, cool experience for you guys to not only hear about Eric's perspective and how they help, but actually hear from a clinician who utilizes their service. So a little bit about Shauna Shauna Roberts is a licensed marriage and family therapist and co founder of highly sought after Bridges Counseling center in Roseville in San Diego, California. Additionally, she's an author and community leader for Bloom for Women and Damani for Grief. Bridges Counseling specializes in addiction, trauma and relationships. She's also a mom of three and an outdoor enthusiast. But before we dive into the topic, we want to make sure that you guys joined us last week as we spoke with Michelle Hardman regarding the referral network that's hiding right in plain sight. You're not going to want to miss those little small tweaks that really make the big difference. And if you're brand new to us, we want to say thanks for choosing our podcast and we hope you stick around for a while. And we have a gift for you that is our A to Z to Cheat Sheet the essentials for building and growing your dream practice. Head over to private practices startup.com over to the resources tab. There you'll see it and that includes not only the A to Z cheat sheet, but five days of practice building emails to support your journey. So welcome, the two of you.

[Shauna Roberts]

Thank you.

[Eric Red]

Thank you. Yeah. Excited to be here.

[Katie Lemieux]

We are excited to have you. And, Eric, I see you have, like, this nice office with windows, and, you know, a hurricane is upon us, and I'm wishing that our weather would be staying like that. And so I'm just kind of relishing in the thought of what it might be like for you guys. And then we're just gonna get pretty badly beaten.

[Eric Red]

Sorry to hear that. That's scary. I hope everything goes okay.

[Katie Lemieux]

We do too. When I describe hurricane prep for anyone who hasn't been through a hurricane, it's kind of like the holidays are coming. You only have one week to plan. You got to clean your entire house. You got to run to the grocery store 5 million times. You have to get gas, and there's a deadline. And so it creates this, like, a major panic, and it's exhausting. It's very stressful, the hurricane prep, I'm sure.

[Eric Red]

I can only imagine. Geez.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

It is very stressful. And it's kind of nice to come on the podcast and just be in the moment and totally take a break from all of that. So we're excited about that. This topic here with you guys today.

[Katie Lemieux]

Yeah. Tell us a little bit about why you kind of decided to shift gears and create the Atto Network and really help clinicians grow their practice.

[Eric Red]

Yeah, that's a good question. So you mentioned we have our own clinics, kind of the Addo recovery brand that we started here in Utah, Salt Lake Valley, and then Nevada. But we. We built some clinics from scratch. And it's kind of a funny story. We rented out this huge building, and we had one therapist, and it was empty. And I remember coming to work and kind of sitting at the front desk as a receptionist, not knowing what to do or how to do it. So it took us a few years, but we were able to grow our clinics to multimillion dollar clinics, and we built some really cool digital brands along the way. You mentioned, you know, Shana is an author on Bloom for Women and Domane for Grief. We also built Path for Men. So we started generating a lot of interest from individuals wanting to find a good therapist. And initially we thought, well, let's build our own clinics. And then we realized how expensive and difficult that could be to have clinics all over the country. And then we then realized the best route was there was wonderful clinicians everywhere. Let's find them and partner with them. And then the next step in our evolution was then we realized that clinicians aren't taught business skills and scaling of business skills in school. So we thought, well, we're pretty good at that too. So then we created a virtual model to be able to plug into the right partners and the right therapists. So then we continue to evolve, and now we have clinics we work with in 28 states, and we continue to grow, and it's been a. It's been a good thing.

[Katie Lemieux]

Nice. And for those of you wondering, like, I've never heard a doorbell on a podcast. That's bizarre. We lost Shauna for a moment, but she came back. So, Eric, you were sharing with us about how you kind of came to be in regards to helping therapists and realizing that therapists really don't come with business skills, and we absolutely do not. We come with good therapy skills, but definitely not business skills. So share with us a little bit about your journey and how you started reaching out to these therapists and how you've helped them.

[Eric Red]

Yeah. Yeah, good question. So, you know, because we started to get so many individuals reaching out to us from all over the country, actually all over the world, really, through our kind of bloom and path and those kind of things, we started to reach out to therapists and say, hey, we have these clients. Can you support them? You know, can you help them? You know what? And then we realized, you know, within a lot of these therapists, there wasn't really a system to create a solid transfer of the clients. Does that make sense? So then, you know, the clients weren't actually being taken care of. So then we get feedback back that would say, hey, I reached out to this therapist. They're not getting back to me. Is there someone else? You know, and just a variety of experiences like that kind of taught us that the good therapists are very busy, and they don't have a lot of time to follow up on referrals and things and scheduling, you know, because they're in session all day. So we did meet Bridges Counseling Center. They're actually one of our first partners that we've had, and we learned from them that being a therapist is actually very contradictory at times to good business practice. And, you know, the personality traits and things tend to be different. Right. You know, and so we built with them kind of a way where we could plug in virtually to them. And so they were kind of our first. And they've been very patient and kind with us, you know, along the way to kind of figure out A system. And so then it kind of worked in reverse. We had all these clients reaching out to us, and so then we would ask therapists and find good ones, and then we would reach out to them and then we would kind of present this idea of partnership. And then over time, we process improved, we continue to learn. We built a hundred page operations manual now creating standardized processes that we share with the therapist and train them on and help them with. And then we, we plug in. So then it's been a, been a really good thing for everyone. So then the therapist feels like they're in control because they understand what's going on. But then we manage it, you know, with them. They're their clients and everything, and we help their business scale and grow without all the cost and the expense and time and doing that.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

What are the specific ways that you guys help therapists to manage the business side of things with their clients in terms of that specific.

[Eric Red]

Yeah, yeah, good question. So I think, I think one of the most important things is we're available all the time for the clients. Does that make sense? So, you know, therapists are really in sessions all day long. And so during those times they're receiving phone calls and they're receiving emails and texts and voicemails and everything else. So we're available to take those calls. And then, you know, we also have little things that we've built through our own experience that work very well. Late cancel management, recurring appointment management, wait list management. Lot of those little things that really make a huge difference in, you know, managing those financial margins, you know, but even more importantly than that, it trains the client well. We kind of believe that everything is therapeutic for the client. So if a therapist isn't, you know, tough, maybe tough isn't the right word. But if a therapist isn't holding to their policies and holding to the things that they told the client they were going to do, that kind of teaches the client, well, maybe I don't have to be the same way as far as collections and those kind of things. I think maybe, to answer your question, a lot of what we do really hones in on the little things that make the big difference. The little things that take time, that are often forgotten, that people don't seem to think matter. And we optimize those, we make them very, very efficient. And so then naturally the clinics will grow, become more steady, and the clients actually have a better experience.

[Katie Lemieux]

Can you give us an idea of. Well, first off, who is your ideal client?

[Eric Red]

Yeah, good question. So our ideal client is actually the Therapist that's probably like Shana there, who's pretty full and working 40 to 60 hours a week between therapy and business management, really trying to take their clinic to the next level. And I think maybe I might defer to Shauna, if that's okay. And she can kind of share who she was and where she is now and maybe how we kind of fill the gaps for her.

[Katie Lemieux]

That would be great. So Shauna, I guess.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Yeah.

[Katie Lemieux]

So share with us like where your business was at when you first started with Atto and then what they've helped you do and where you guys are now.

[Shauna Roberts]

Sure. Thanks. You know, I think Shelly and I started Bridges Counseling Center 10 years ago and we were that typical kind of one stop shop. We could kind of treat any, anything that walked in our door. But before too long, you're spending 30 hours in the chair and that doesn't leave a lot of room for business development. And we always knew we wanted to do these other things. We just didn't know how to do them because we couldn't get out of the chair. And we tried a lot of different things and it just wasn't working. And at the same time, we were starting to see this insurgence of a certain particular type of client walk in the door, sex addiction, betrayal, trauma. And that's when we met and ran into Dr. Kevin Skinner, who is affiliated with ADDO. And we always like to say the rest is history. We started these talks with them and realized they were going to take us where we had always dreamed we wanted to go. We just didn't know how to do it. We didn't have the infrastructure, we didn't have the platform, we didn't have the technology and we didn't have the manpower. And it was a match made in heaven. And just like I'll piggyback off what Eric was saying, all those things that therapists don't have time to do, I don't have to do them anymore. I have this beautiful team of customer service managers who hold my client's hand from beginning to end in a way that really helps them feel safe, supported, cared for. It's kind of a beautiful thing and we get a lot of positive feedback about that. So I don't have to do that anymore. So that's a wonderful. It's been a wonderful experience for both Shelly and I to just concentrate on being therapists and do what we do so well. We just help people.

[Katie Lemieux]

And we sometimes call that you guys like, are like the, you know, the rare unicorn. Right. Like if we Always say, if you find someone who does the business side and you get to do what you do you love, then hold on to that because it's, it's, you know, it's pretty rare. But you guys have created something to.

[Shauna Roberts]

Be able to do that.

[Katie Lemieux]

So Shawna, are you. So you and Shelly, that. That's your business partner, I assume, Correct. So you guys are. You own your company together and starting out, was it just the two of you?

[Shauna Roberts]

No. That's a good question. Back when we first started, we actually had. There was four of us that were listed as like the co owners. And as you know, time had it, people moved on and did other things, which really was a benefit to Shelly and I because we had these great plans that we wanted to do and how we wanted to expand our company. And, you know, not everybody thinks that way. You know, it's really easy to get comfortable, right. And just do what we do so well. And there was not the same vision, I think. So now it's just Shelly and I, and it's working really, really well.

[Katie Lemieux]

And where were you at, like, in regards to the amount of clients you were seeing weekly and revenues when you first started with Atto?

[Shauna Roberts]

I would say we were probably. What was our sweet spot? Anywhere from 25. I honestly was seeing probably closer to 40 clients a week, which is ridiculous. That's way too many clients to be seen. And that's just because we just didn't have enough people, blah, blah, blah. So I think what Eric did in terms of increasing our revenue is twofold. One, like he said, he came in, they bumped up our rates, first of all, which we had not been brave enough to do, and we should have done because we were under. We were not doing enough. We weren't charging enough.

[Katie Lemieux]

I know before the podcast, I said we have to not interrupt each other, but I'm going to interrupt you because I'm so excited to hear that. That they came in and like, absolutely, this is too low. We're pumping up your rates. And Kate and I often say that to people and I love that they just kind of said, nope, this is what's happening.

[Shauna Roberts]

He did. They did. And I think we were even a little hesitant, you know, should we. Could we. And they seamlessly did it. I mean, it was flawless. And so we didn't really have to do anything. They notified our clients, hey, this is what we're doing. Blah, blah, blah. It was great. So that just from that, you know, we, you know, there was a certain percentage of increase, but allowing me to spend more time, quite frankly on self care for me. Right. And making sure I'm attending to the things I need to do so I can be the best therapist possible instead of all of the things that now out of does for us. I never want to go back to doing that. I am so grateful that they stepped in and really have taken us to this whole new place that we are at. It is a beautiful thing.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Are you still continuing to see as many clients or no?

[Shauna Roberts]

No. Shelly and I are working on business development, content development, program development. We're hiring. It has completely changed the way that we do things.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

You're hiring some new clinicians to be able to help see clients so you guys can focus on more of the design elements and stuff like that.

[Shauna Roberts]

You got it.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Awesome. That's so exciting.

[Shauna Roberts]

It really is. It's been fantastic.

[Katie Lemieux]

Nice. And before we continue, I just want to make sure we take a quick break for our sponsor.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

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[Katie Lemieux]

Shauna share with us. So you were working about 40 hours seeing clients a week. You were kind of getting burned out and Exhausted or I would assume so you didn't say that, and I know that you had said that Eric came in and bumped up your guys rates. Shauna or Eric, either of you can answer. So what was kind of like the baseline of where you guys were at when Atto kind of entered and where are you now financially?

[Eric Red]

Yeah, maybe, Sean, I'll talk a little bit from our perspective and then you can jump in. But you know, when we, when we work with therapists that are full, you know, quote unquote, full to whatever their, you know, their idea of full is, you know, it's different for a lot of therapists, but they routinely say I charge 130 or I would charge 150, or I charge 200, or they say they have their advertised rate, but it's very often that they aren't collecting 130, 150, 180, whatever the rate is. Sometimes there's a scarcity mentality with therapists where it's like, I got to have every client and whatever you can pay, that's fine with me. Let's just get you in kind of thing. So with Shauna and with therapists like Shauna in that similar circumstance, they have an abundance of clients. You know, it's basic economics of supply and demand. You know, where her demand exceeded her supply. Does that make sense? And her supply was her hours available. So I think on average she was between 90 and 100 a session, even though she advertised more. 121 25, I believe what it was. So we, we did an audit of all the clients and we bumped them all up to that 130 range. And. And because Shana was so good as a therapist, the clients wanted to stay with her. And then she was getting paid according to really what she should be. I still think Shana's probably underpaid. I think she should probably charge even more. Yeah. Thank you. Great. She's a great therapist. So the nice thing about it is we bumped up her revenue enough to where she could work fewer sessions and start carving those sessions off to a different therapist and start earning some income to the business. And then she's working a little bit less, but she's actually making more money at that time. So she's working less, making more money, and the business now starts growing. And so even with our fees, I believe she's better off than before. So anyways, it's been just the price increase. Management, I think helped a lot. Anyways. You have any thoughts on that, Shawna?

[Shauna Roberts]

No. Eric, you took it in A perfect direction. And you're right. I think the collection aspect is huge. And something that people don't realize how much time we were chasing down payments because we do have contracts with third party vendors and trying to get all that done was a nightmare. So, yes, just from that perspective, we. I don't even know how to quantify that, but there was a tremendous increase just because we weren't chasing down owed payments. I mean, that was huge.

[Eric Red]

Yeah.

[Katie Lemieux]

Right. Yeah. That's interesting. And what were some of the things, what were some of the systems, the technology leverages that they helped you guys with so you can continue to do the clinical work that you love, but it just made things really easy.

[Shauna Roberts]

Well, I think first of all, the fact that they had a dedicated like billing department and collection department. Again, I never had to do that. I got to stop phoning people who, hey, I haven't received a payment or hey, agency, so. And so who I have a contract with. I have this invoice out to you and I haven't seen any monies for six months. They do that. I don't have to do that anymore. So that piece. So just. We didn't have anything like that. It was just Shelly and I and our other clinicians trying to do that. So. And Eric, I don't know if there's any other, like, am I missing something that you guys do or have that I'm not aware of?

[Eric Red]

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think there's a lot behind the scenes that you probably don't know about in terms of systems and technology. I mean, I think our. And maybe this is a bad way to say it, and maybe I'm a little nervous to say this on air, so. But we kind of have this internal mantra where it's. If we have to rely on a therapist to do it, it probably won't work. And so everything we've built is centered around making it where the therapist doesn't have to do it. They're involved and they understand what's going on. So all our technology, I mean, we probably use 12 to 15 different systems between, you know, we have a practice management system that we would provide based off, you know, what their needs are. We use a software called Zendesk that manages phone, email, text. It's all HIPAA compliant. We spend a ton of money on that and we track the full history of every interaction we ever have with the client. So if there's ever a concern, we have an entire history. So it's fully transparent. Different payroll systems and merchant processing systems. And a variety of things to make it very easy on the therapist.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

I can hear you guys work a lot in the background in terms of systemizing the practice and really taking that stress off of the therapist plate so they can focus on what they want to do, what they want to do in terms of design elements, working with clients and other areas they're not bogged down with all of the, all of the time it takes to manage the client relations stuff. Do you guys also do billing when it comes to, is it just for self pay or is it also insurance? Is that a component you guys take care of as well or.

[Eric Red]

No, we do, we do bill insurance and we do, you know, we like to call it the business term, I think that's maybe widely known is called revenue cycle management. So it's really maximizing the revenue in all areas, if that makes sense. So it can be insurance billing, it could be third party pay, it could be, you know, subscription based or you know, if a therapist wants to run an intensive, you know, a specialized product like that, we support those things. So, so it's really revenue cycle management, managing all aspects to really maximize not just the collections, but the revenue, if that makes sense.

[Katie Lemieux]

And one thing I just want to, I wanted to piggyback on your comment. I know you're like, I don't know if I should say it this way. So for anyone who all sudden got offended or whatever, let me say this about business, right? Is that a lot of times when we come into business, there's a great book called the E Myth, right? So it's the entrepreneurial myth. And we come in because we know to do the frontline work and that's what we do as clinicians, right? And we do that very well. But now we are doing not only the therapist job, but then the business job. And you know, like Shauna was saying and Kate and I have shared stories many times, it's like you really become exhausted and you really should do what you're specializing in and when you have a business. So I love the definition when people talk about business. So a business is a system that should be able to run without you. So really the reliance on technology leverage and, or people leverage regarding their specific strengths. So like your client care coordinator experiences or people who answer the phone or whatever, like that is so important. And so I just wanted to kind of offer that as like a add on or a reframe in regards to what you're saying because you're like a little bit worried about like, oh, I'm no Therapist, but it's true. And most therapists really would love to just take this piece and hand it to someone else and say, I just want to do the work I love. And that's like, the solution that you guys provide, and I think that's amazing.

[Shauna Roberts]

Agreed. I couldn't say that any better. And I think one of the mistakes that therapists make especially is because we are not intrinsically business people. Now, that's not true across the board. There are some people who have the entrepreneurial spirit, but, you know, we're in the helping profession. And so what I want people to take away from this. I know you're going to ask later, but I'm going to put it out here, is don't be afraid to ask for help and recognize that you can't do it all as a therapist. You cannot be the best therapist to your clients and run a business. It doesn't work, in my opinion. And now I know there's people who do it, but why, if you don't have to? That's my thought process.

[Katie Lemieux]

What were some of kind of. I know. I think, Eric, you had said Shauna was one of the first people groups you've done this with. What were some of the growing pains for the two of you as you navigated this together?

[Shauna Roberts]

Oh, Eric, I'm going first. No, I think because we were kind of their test pilot program, we had to do a lot of stops and starts and retooling things and looking at maybe how this system isn't working 100%. Eric, I'm going to share one example, and then you can jump in. I think one of the things was, if you are going to centralize our customer service, meaning all my potential clients are going to call into you now suddenly they're saying, hello, you reached so and so at atto. That's going to be really confusing for my clients. What can we do different there? Is there a way that they can recognize that that call is originating from a Bridges potential client? Eric was so great and said, we can make that work. We can give you guys a designated phone number. And when your clients call in, our staff will be saying, hi, thank you for calling Bridges Counseling Center. That was huge. Yeah, yeah.

[Katie Lemieux]

And, Eric, what were you going to share about the growing pains?

[Eric Red]

Shauna and Shelly have been so patient with us along the way, and they've been great, but I don't have maybe any major. Maybe major issue that we've come up with. It's more just a lot of little tweaks along the way. The way we approach things is we don't know. We ask, does that make sense? And we listen. So, you know, we had a situation yesterday with, you know, a clinic we're working with out of Florida. And they, they had some concerns, you know, they have an office manager, for example. And early on, our system didn't really work very well with office managers. There was some redundancy in responsibilities. And so now we're really working with them to be able to work, you know, in conjunction with an office manager, you know, and how does that work? And I think we're very, very close to making that a very, very good process. But part of that is then, well, how did the fees work? And so then now the office manager is doing some work and we're doing some work, and so just constantly iterating that way to find the right solution for each individual practice that fits in our operational processes, which is the way I like to explain it, it's like Starbucks, right? You. You can go get your version of coffee, right? And it can be very unique to you, but to Starbucks, it's actually very operational. Does that make sense? And so that, that's kind of how we, how we view things is, you know, if there, if an issue comes up, does this apply to the greater, you know, greater amount of therapists? If it does, then we got to find a solution to it. So, yeah, I think, I think the branding was a big, big thing where early on we tried to make the therapist become an addo branded, you know, clinic. And we quickly learned that we didn't want to do that. So now we brand, you know, we work with the brand. So we were just an extension of those brands.

[Katie Lemieux]

Nice. And I know that we, you, myself and Jason have been having conversations about you guys really to, you know, look at ways that we can support each other. Because Kate and I, we really focus more, not only focus on like the sole clinician or someone looking to really hammer, you know, figure out their marketing and stuff like that. We have worked with people with group practices, but you guys really focus on, like, scaling that group practice and systemizing where we focus a lot on the marketing foundation. And so as we have talked and stuff like that, I really like, you know, how you guys really cater to each clinician and their group practice and really want to find what works. I like that. It's a very. It emulates your own brand of really creating a great client experience. And I'm pretty sure that when we spoke, you had said you guys also do other services in regards to Helping groups and just share a little bit about those so people can get a good understanding of the comprehensive approach you take.

[Eric Red]

Yeah, yeah, good question. And I. One thing I want to say about Bridges Counseling center real quick that we've maybe helped them with is they now offer additional services like yoga therapy, they offer additional services like neurofeedback, you know, group therapy, you know, a lot of those kind of services. A lot of our learning has come from our own clinics, you know, and those are things that we do at our clinics. And so we support group practices in developing additional programs and products outside of just individual, you know, couples therapy, that, that kind of thing. So that's really one way and I'm drawing a little bit of a blank.

[Katie Lemieux]

So one of the things you guys like do marketing and advertising and things like that.

[Eric Red]

That's right. That' that's where I was going to go. One of the big values I think that we offer to therapists is the reputation management. So you know, everyone wants marketing. Right. But the best marketing is a strong reputation. So rather than. We've spent a lot of money on Google, PPC and ads. And I think those things are wonderful and I think they work very, very well when you get it dialed in. And I know you guys have an excellent way. In fact, I have about 15 therapists I want to send your way, you know, this next week.

[Katie Lemieux]

So that's awesome. Well, it's crazy because we were about to launch our ecourse in marketing for the second time and with the hurricane we are on a delay. But we would love to support therapists that you said our way.

[Eric Red]

Yeah. So I think that is a great way to start. The reputation management is really a longer term approach and it's. We use net promoter score. A lot of therapists aren't familiar with that. It's the basic questions. On a scale of 0 to 10, how likely would you be to refer your therapist to a loved one or a friend? And if they score the clinic underneath an 8 or below, we ask the question how can we get a 10 or a 9? And then they give wonderful feedback, it's anonymous. And we compile all that feedback into a report and we give that back to the clinic that we work with. And we found that if the MPS is above a 50, they're going to be generating significant referrals and it's going to be a good experience. We then also work a lot with the community with presentations. So we've built kind of canned presentations that our therapists can use if they want to around a variety of topics. And we also support the emailing of clients asking them to invite friends to come back to the clinic and participate in these free presentations. And we're currently working on a way to start working with from us from our location here, start working with local businesses and things to start generating additional presentations for therapists to create more community exposure and awareness. We just found that therapists don't have time to do those things. How are they going to go make 25 phone calls to some local businesses to try and set up some presentations or networking events and things like that?

[Katie Lemieux]

Totally. I mean, I know for me as a therapist and Kate and I talk about this all the time as a therapist as well. Well as, you know, co owning private practice startup and being on podcasts and things like that. Like it's sometimes eight or nine hours that I can only do one thing, whether that's be with clients or on a podcast or in a meeting. And yeah, sometimes you just don't want to take that extra time and now be on the phone and doing those things. So I love what you guys do and you guys do a lot more than what we've shared today. But we're running out of time, you know, and how so. And again, just highlighting your ideal client is really someone who's looking to grow and scale. Right? Not, not starting out. You guys really help those clinicians really grow their group pract already or looking to grow into a group option. So where can people find more information about you guys?

[Shauna Roberts]

Eric?

[Eric Red]

Yeah, good question. I think addonetwork.com is the best place. We have case studies, we have an overview, we have a variety of videos that they can watch. I think that would be the best place to go. And then if they want to learn more about, I guess, our other brands, they're all listed in the footer of addonetwork.com so they can kind of learn more about that. But Yeah, I think addonetwork.com would be the best place for them to go.

[Katie Lemieux]

And what do each of you. What each of you. What would you guys like for our audience to take away from your message today?

[Eric Red]

I'll jump in because I think Shana's on mute and she doesn't know it, but I think for me personally, I think one of our core values and the whole reason why this business started was we want to help people and that's why we started clinics. And our mission is to flood the earth with resources. But what we feel we can be best at is aligning therapists with the right clientele. So I think if you share those same values and I think if you're a passionate therapist and you really want to grow and influence more people, I think we're a good fit. I also think if you're a therapist that wants to build an asset, does that make sense? So build a practice that, you know, 10, 20 years down the road, you want to be able to step away and have it continue to provide revenue and income for you. I think we're probably a good fit for you.

[Katie Lemieux]

Awesome. Well, I appreciate that. Shauna, did we get you off mute there?

[Shauna Roberts]

Am I?

[Katie Lemieux]

Yeah, we hear you. No, we hear you. Go ahead.

[Shauna Roberts]

Okay. I was just going to kind of continue what I was saying earlier, that as a therapist, don't be afraid to understand maybe what your limitations are. Focus on what you're really, really good at and then allow someone else to step in and offset those deficits or those areas where you aren't super strong, and that will allow you to grow your practice. And if I may, I'd like to just say one other small piece that I am always happy to talk to prospective adult clients, clients about our experience and have made myself available and have talked to many wonderful people across the United States who are looking to join atto and I'm absolutely happy to offer that up.

[Katie Lemieux]

I appreciate that. And Shauna, do you want to share with how people could get in contact with you? If they want to, they can.

[Shauna Roberts]

So two ways. They can reach [e-mail] they may also text or call me at area code 925 595-4994.

[Katie Lemieux]

Awesome. Well, we really appreciate having you guys here today. And Eric, I just so appreciate that you created this solution that probably many therapists are looking for that don't know it's even out there. And it's really great to be able to have you guys on the podcast to share share the good news with others and Startup Nation. We hope you join us next time as we talk to Casey Compton on when to grow, hold and pump the brakes on your private practice. Kate, what is our Startup Nation superhero shout out?

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Well, before we get there, Eric, it's been great having you and Shauna here today. And then I know you had a giveaway for our audience as well. So let's hear what that is first, and then we'll dive into our Startup Nation superhero shout out.

[Eric Red]

Yeah, good question. So I think what we would like to offer is we want to get to know you. And part of that we'd be happy to spend significant time putting together a plan and a proposal for your clinic, whether we partner or not. I think at the end of the day I think you'll leave with something very, very valuable. And you know we can't partner with everyone. You know, we are a pretty unique fit, but we'd be happy to leave you with a free proposal and a free plan. So for your clinic.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Awesome. We will put all the information and links that we've talked about today on our episode in the show Notes. You guys can find that on our website. And then let's give our Startup Nation superhero shout out for today's episode, which is from High on Life six and they say, oh it's interesting because it talks about how there's no business related classes in school. They say I'm a doctoral graduate student in clinical psychology and this is a great addendum to my coursework as there are no business related classes in school. This podcast helps me understand what I need to learn in order to be prepared for a successful private practice. Yes, we were talking about that earlier on the episode today. There is not business training in your master's or PhD programs, so we are glad that you are finding this podcast to be filling that gap for you. It is definitely an important gap to be filled, especially if you have those dreams of really wanting to grow and scale your practice. If you guys are loving these podcasts, definitely subscribe rate review our show. We would greatly appreciate that and share with your friends and fellow colleagues. Also, we love getting these gifts of feedback from you guys when you let us know what topics you're wanting to hear, what you're liking about the podcast. It always inspires us to keep going and providing more content for you guys.

[Katie Lemieux]

Startup Nation as we say, thank you for allowing us to inspire you from Startup to Mastery and we will see you on the next episode. Take care everybody.

[Dr. Kate Campbell]

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.