Misha Conway (2:43)

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Katie Lemieux (2:46)

We are excited to have you. So I always have to know, what are your pet's names?

Misha Conway (2:50)

My cat is named Bilbo after Bilbo Baggins the hobbit. And my dog is named Simon.

Katie Lemieux (2:58)

Oh.

Misha Conway (2:59)

Although some. He's a big, gray, fluffy dog. So I sometimes think, oh, I should have named him Gandalf the gray to sort of go with that.

Katie Lemieux (3:07)

I'm seeing a theme here of the movie genres that you like.

Misha Conway (3:10)

Yeah, I'm a little nerdy, so.

Katie Lemieux (3:13)

So we're really excited for your topic. This is something that therapists struggle with the most and, you know, really is part of our passion in helping therapists learn how to be great marketers. But sometimes it's really tough. So what led you into this arena?

Misha Conway (3:28)

So, actually I'd been working, like you said, I'd been working in the nonprofit field for about over 10 years. And I left working my full time job to nanny for my sister when she had her first baby. And so, and then after that ended, he went to daycare full time. I was like, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do? I have nothing lined up. And a really good friend of mine who's a therapist who, you know, Heather Violanti, we were talking one day and she said, oh, I have to do all this marketing stuff. You know, my website needs help, I don't know what to do. And I was like, I do that. I can help you do that. And it was just a perfect fit. And the previous job that I had, I was working with therapists at a nonprofit. And I was like, oh, this just is perfect timing. And she really encouraged me to keep doing it and start my own business. And so here I am.

Katie Lemieux (4:24)

Wow. That's a very pivotal moment. That's amazing.

Dr. Kate Campbell (4:28)

It is so cool to hear because I know Heather very well and I didn't realize that she was kind of like the first client, official client for your business and supported you in helping launch the business. Because I know she's a huge fan of what you do.

Misha Conway (4:41)

Yeah, yeah. She's been great as a client, as a friend, as just encouragement along the way. It's really hard and scary to Start your own business. There's a lot of hiccups. There's a lot of ups and downs, things to celebrate, but also things to figure out. And so being a therapist herself and a small business owner, she was so crucial in helping me along the way. Even though what we do is different, there's so many similarities with anyone who's starting a small business. So it's been really helpful having that person there just to guide me along the way.

Dr. Kate Campbell (5:21)

In your experience working with therapists and helping them to build their websites and design them and all of that stuff, what do you see as the biggest challenges that therapists face?

Misha Conway (5:30)

So I see it as well. There's two things. Some therapists think, oh, I don't really have to market myself. I don't really need a website. I don't really have to do much. Yes. Right.

Katie Lemieux (5:44)

Our favorite is I'll just give it time. What? What time doing nothing. That's just not gonna work.

Misha Conway (5:52)

Yeah. And so I'm always surprised. And, you know, I totally get it. I sometimes, in the same boat, I'd rather do work for my clients than market myself. So I know how hard it is to prioritize yourself and prioritize your business. And so, you know, one of the things I say to my clients is, well, if this is something you really want to do and that you're invested in, you have to make that investment of marketing yourself. And it's not just about getting yourself out there. It's about helping clients find you. People need help. You know, mental health care is still stigmatized. It's still hard to find the people and the therapists that are a good fit for you. And so marketing isn't a bad word. It's not something to be scared of. It's a way to connect therapists and counselors to people that are looking for help.

Katie Lemieux (6:48)

Yeah. And what made you decide to niche in working with therapists?

Misha Conway (6:53)

At first, it was just accidental, and I was like, oh, I don't know, maybe I should work, you know, keep working with nonprofits. But the more that I kept working with therapists, it sort of just grew by word of mouth. The more I realized how much I love working with therapists. Every time I work with a new therapist, I learned something new. And my favorite part about working with therapists is the genuine nature of the relationship I have with my clients. And so I've come to realize that my relationship with my clients mirrors that relationship that therapists have with their clients. It's about building a genuine relationship to support each Other. And I view all of the working relationships I have almost as friendships. The better I get to know my clients, the better my work is that I produce for them.

Katie Lemieux (7:44)

I really love hearing you say that. And it's always cool to talk to people who just, like, love working with therapists. So we really appreciate that, because therapists often, as you know, sometimes need the most help. Because like you said, marketing sometimes can be a dirty word, a very uncomfortable word. And, you know, I'm sure with your genuine relationship and the way that you build rapport with working with therapists, as you really just help guide them in a way that's really, you know, works and is comfortable for them. So thank you for that.

Dr. Kate Campbell (8:11)

We appreciate that. Your support. Yeah.

Misha Conway (8:13)

Oh, go ahead.

Dr. Kate Campbell (8:14)

I was just going to jump in and say, yeah. And that's so support. That's so important to really be able to understand the therapist and what makes them tick, what makes them unique and their brand, because that's what you're creating. You're creating the visual representation of all of that in terms of how they show up in the world and how they are positioning themselves in the marketplace, which is such a key role for you. So the fact that you really spend that time to just say, slow down, really focus on the relationship, understand them on a deep level, that is just awesome. I'd love to hear that you focus on that.

Misha Conway (8:46)

Yeah, it's, you know, if I don't get to know the therapist, what I'm producing is going to be about me, but I'm not the one who's working with the clients. And so it's so important for people who are looking for a therapist to feel like they know the therapist before they contact them. Right. So calling a therapist, especially if you've never been to therapy before, is scary. And you have to just the nature of the work, it makes people vulnerable. And so finding a therapist that feels like a good fit that you can feel safe with before contacting them is so important. And so a big part of what I do is getting to know therapists so I can find their voice and put that out there for them. And like you said, you know, what makes them unique, what makes them special, who they are. All of that takes time for me to understand. And so I really work on that initial investment, getting to know the person. So everything I produce, whether it's design or writing, is in their voice and reflects who they are and who they're trying to help, too.

Dr. Kate Campbell (9:51)

What's your process for walking therapists through that? To try to get to understand themselves better, because that's such a big part of business. A lot of times, therapists don't really even know those things.

Misha Conway (10:02)

Right.

Dr. Kate Campbell (10:02)

And they need help to figure that out. So walk us through your process.

Misha Conway (10:06)

So first, I just listen. So I ask, okay, who are you? Who are you trying to help? And I've seen sometimes therapists, you know, they're so eager to help people. They haven't stopped and taken that time themselves to really reflect on who they want to help, why they're a therapist in the first place. Right? So they might have started school a long time ago and sort of joined this field a long time ago. And now, okay, why am I doing this? Why do I love doing this? And just asking them, you know, a lot of people might not even ask them the questions, like, oh, why are you a therapist? Who are you trying to help? What's your favorite part about being a therapist? And then I listen, and a lot of therapists will talk and talk and then not even hear things that they've said to me. And I'll repeat those things back and say, wow, I really liked when you said this. And, oh, did I say that? I'm so, you know, I sort of just go through the process of saying these things to people, but I've never really stopped and reflected on it or stopped and listened to what is in my head. So allowing for that space is really important just to get that feedback to repeat back what I've heard. And there are really magic moments that happen when you let someone talk. So one of the things I offer is writing and, like, blog writing. And so, you know, I'll just say, here's the topic. I want you to just say what's ever in your head. Just start talking and, oh, is it okay if I ramble? No, please do ramble. I don't want you to stop. Just go on and on and on. I will write all of this down and then tell you something that sounded so special and magical and important and read it back to you, and then we can jump off from there. And. And so just having a person as a sounding board can be so important in developing or realizing who you are and what lives in your head.

Katie Lemieux (11:59)

I really enjoy listening to you talk, Misha, because Kate and I, one of the words that we absolutely love is isomorphism. And so that's something happening in the same system that happens in another system.

Dr. Kate Campbell (12:10)

Right?

Katie Lemieux (12:10)

And as you talk, you know, Kate and I, we're really super passionate about helping therapists also realize that they are great Marketers. And just hearing you talk is you take the role of therapist, right, for marketing, and you listen and you reflect and you share and you validate. And these are the skills that actually therapists have that really help make them great marketers. And you're, like, emulating the whole process, so it's just really fun to listen to you talk about it. But it's also really cool how jazzed you are about it. Like, you're excited. I love how you call magical, like, little magical moments that kind of come out of these things. So I'm just really just enjoying watching you get so excited about all of this. Awesome.

Misha Conway (12:49)

Yeah, I love it. I love when those moments happen, and I'm just like, wow. Like, I love what I do because I get to hear people who are passionate about what they do. You know, it's sort of this. It's contagious, right? When you work with passionate people, it feels good. And I love working with therapists because every person I've worked with loves what they do and are passionate about what they do and want to help people. And actually, HiHO marketing. H y h O stands for helping you help others. And that was so important to me when I launched my business, and I actually didn't come up with that phrase right away. I was talking to another friend of mine who's a therapist, and I kept saying, you know, I really want to help you help others. Like, what do I do? And they're like, wait a second. You need that in the name of your business. I kept saying that. And so that's how I. So my whole business is based off of that idea.

Katie Lemieux (13:46)

Love it. But before we go on, I just want to take a quick break for our sponsors.

Dr. Kate Campbell (13:50)

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Katie Lemieux (15:23)

So I know Kate was asking you about the process that you take folks through. So tell us a little bit more on, you know, it is hard to sell yourself and so let a marketer help you and how do you continue on the process?

Misha Conway (15:38)

So it depends on what the needs are of my client. Sometimes they have a website already and they need to be found. Okay, I have this great website now what? And so depending on what your needs are, whether you've been in practice for a long time or you're just starting out and with your private practice, there's a few different things that I offer. So web design is one of them. So if you are just starting out with your private practice and starting at the beginning, working with, you know, we talked about figuring out who you are, who you're trying to help, determining your niche client, your ideal client, and then taking that into branding and then taking that into your web design and then how do I get found? And so that's the marketing piece of it. And so, you know, helping people understand SEO, the power of social media, you know, there's a lot of different ways to market. And one of the things that I tell people is, you know, it can be really overwhelming to try to do all of it yourself. There's so many ways to put yourself out there. And so I ask, what do you enjoy doing? Are there things that you want to do? I have some clients who really enjoy writing. They just need somebody maybe to help edit and have a second pair of eyes on their writing. I have some clients that really love doing social media and getting on Facebook and I let them take care of that. So it's really a partnership. I don't want to take anything away from clients that they enjoy doing. If there are things they don't like to do or they don't feel comfortable doing, I can help out in those areas. So it's really about meeting my clients where they're at and just making it more of an ongoing partnership.

Dr. Kate Campbell (17:30)

What you're talking about is so in alignment with what Katie and I believe and what we teach in our private practice marketing ecourse program and coaching program as well. And it's all about really identifying your strengths in the areas that you actually enjoy in business and continuing to do those. If you're good at something and you enjoy it, don't outsource it. But if you're not good at something or you just hate it or it takes you forever, it's amazing to have resources like yourself to be able to outsource that to who are going to do it a million times better than you ever would.

Misha Conway (18:01)

Right. You know, I realized that with my own business when I first started, I was like, okay, here are all the things that I can do, and I'm just going to offer all of them. And then I realized I wasn't happy. I didn't want to do all of those things. I want to become an expert in a few areas, and I'll stick to those. And I enjoy doing those things, and I'm good at them. It's exactly what you're saying. And then I decided to stop offering services that I'm not as good at, that I don't enjoy doing. And it's the same with therapists. If there's things you don't like doing, don't do it. Let somebody else take care of it.

Katie Lemieux (18:31)

And it's really nice to hear you say that, because even still today, I see a lot of messages like, you have to do this, you have to blog, you have to this. You have to social media, you have to be on Instagram. You have to. And it's just not. It's not true. Like, none of it's true. Right. Like, yeah, you have to market that. What that I would say is true, but you don't have to do all the things. And that stuff can become extremely overwhelming and. And sometimes paralyzing because you feel like, well, I'm supposed to be doing this, but I really don't like to. I don't really want to. I'm not good at it. And then you get stopped. So there's just, yeah, so much misinformation out there. And, yeah, we love listening to your thoughts and your process, really emulate a lot of what we teach.

Misha Conway (19:10)

Oh, that's great. Yeah, I. You know, it. I think working with therapists has also taught me a lot about how to run My own business, because they're very similar. I think running any small business, you know, is the same where just focus on your strengths and if something, if you do something and it makes you feel good, keep doing that. Don't do the things that drive you crazy and make you just feel like you're spinning your wheels. The other thing is working with people that you enjoy working with. Having, let's say you have your own private practice and you're not in a group practice, it can feel pretty isolating. And that was one of the things that I ran into when I started my own business. I'd been working with in busy offices for years and years and years and then started my own business and I work from home and all of a sudden I'm by myself and I'm thinking, oh my. Oh, my gosh, I have to do everything by myself. And then I realized how important it is to find other people to talk to, to collaborate with. Even the people that you outsource your work, your work to have those connections, have people to talk to about running a small business. Talk on the phone with whoever it is that is also in the same boat you are. Join groups online, on social media, on Facebook of other therapists, other small business owners that are going through similar things or have been where you are and can offer you ADV on how to run your private practice, how to run your small business. That's something that's really helped me, that idea of that even though you might be on your own with your business, you're not alone in the world. There's other people that can help you out.

Katie Lemieux (20:49)

And just out of curiosity, in your process, do you take therapists through a full, like, branding process or do you kind of hit on that? I'm just curious.

Misha Conway (20:58)

I do, if they're looking for it. So I take an approach where I'm not going to force anybody to buy my services that they don't necessarily need. So I will take people through an entire branding process from the beginning of, okay, let's just define who you are and what you're trying to do through all of the actual design and content writing. If somebody already has some of that and they, you know, just need, you know, beefing up in one area, such as writing or just improving their website and the content on there. I'll work with them, I'll meet them where they're at.

Katie Lemieux (21:31)

That's awesome. And just out of curiosity, too, I know that part of your process is really helping people understand their mission, their values and their goals.

Dr. Kate Campbell (21:38)

Do you have.

Katie Lemieux (21:41)

Can you share with us some of the kind of questions that you ask them to get them excited and inspired to really figure that out?

Misha Conway (21:47)

Yeah. One of the things I ask is, why did you decide to become a therapist in the first place? I think that spark that started them on their journey is really key to understanding who they are today and just sort of taking that time to reflect on why they made those choices. And you know, when people sort of diverge in their path, there's something, there's some spark that caused them to diverge and to make those decisions. And I think people get really excited about that and thinking about that point in their lives. And when they do that, they just start to naturally feel excited and get excited while they're talking and really just letting them ramble. And then I'll pick up on little things that they might not even realize they're saying and then read it back to them or I'll say, hey, you said this thing. That was really interesting. Talk more about that. So it's really conversational. I don't try to ask rigid questions or strict questions that are yes or no or simple answers because I think the beauty of what lives inside your brain is just when you're sort of free flowing and freeform answering questions.

Katie Lemieux (23:00)

It's interesting because part of our E course in the beginning, the module one is really all about mindset and goal setting and dream lifestyle. And we do ask that question, what led you into the field? What made you decide to be a therapist? And you know, we really invite our coachees to just take a step back and go into a really, like, peaceful place, whatever that is for them, and do this work and ask themselves the question. But I really love the idea, like even if you're doing, doing this on your own, you can voice record yourself or put it in your phone or whatever, and then take the opportunity to listen back to it and see what you pick up. Right. Like as an exercise. So that was, that's definitely something I'm taking away to add to, you know, sharing with our coaches for sure. Michelle, one of the things as I hear you talk that I'm curious on how you might share this with folks. Like Kate said, everything that you say is very in alignment to what we talk about. And part of marketing, right, is understanding the need of what the client is seeing. The need is right. And then matching it with a solution. And one of the things that we find really difficult is a lot of times therapists and I'm sure many other business owners solopreneurs especially, they jump. They want to jump straight into strategy. Right. Well, should I do Facebook ads or do I need an Instagram account? Like, should I be doing blogging? And they have no foundational work. They don't know their ideal client, or they might know their ideal client. They clearly don't have a brand. How do you help them slow down and realize that this part of the process is because we call it the foundation? Right. Like, you can't build and your strategies are not going to be consistently successful if you don't have a clear foundation. You're going to waste your time, you're going to waste your dollars, because you're going to be spinning your wheels, not knowing what's working. So how do you help them slow down and realize that this is the process?

Misha Conway (24:42)

So I will, just, after we sort of talk about who they are, who they're trying to help, I lay out all of the things that I offer and I say, do any of these resonate with you? Not all of them. I don't want to hear the questions. I want to do everything. Nobody's going to do everything. I can't do all of it. My clients can't do all of it. So we really just talk about each area of marketing. So let's say you have a website and you want to work on SEO. Okay. So I'll talk about the different ways we can build your SEO. Okay. Does any of that resonate with you? No. Okay, let's talk about social media. You know, so I basically just lay out all of the things, and then sometimes when we talk about social media people, oh, my gosh, there's so many different things out there. There's Facebook and LinkedIn and Twitter. Okay. We're not going to start with all of it. We're just going to take it one step at. At a time. So with the same as marketing or doing marketing is the same as building a business, it's just one step at a time. You're just putting one foot in front of the other. So the way I work with clients is we're going to focus on one area. Just see how it does. See if you like it. See, you know, after a few months, if you are getting results that you hoped you would get, and that's how I approach it, because like you said, to try to do all of it at once, you're just gonna spin your wheels. I'm gonna spin my wheels. It's hard to measure the results when you're doing everything at once. So I take it one Step of a time. First, we're gonna. Let's focus on Facebook. We're gonna build your Facebook audience. We're gonna start advertising on there and see how that goes. If you enjoy it, if you like doing it, if you like what we have, great. We'll keep that going, and let's try something new. You know, it's hard to keep track of a lot of things if you're trying to attempt to do it all at once. So I have that initial conversation, just what interests you, and we'll work there, we'll start there, and then after a little bit, we can move on to other things.

Katie Lemieux (26:51)

Do you find, though, that they're eager to start the strategy and not really build the foundation?

Misha Conway (26:58)

Actually, I don't. I think a lot of people that I've worked with feel overwhelmed because, like you said, they're hearing and reading all these things, like, here are all the things you have to do. Here's all the things you should. And I think they have this expectation when they're about to talk to a marketer that the person that they're about to talk to is going to say, yeah, we're going to do everything. It's going to cost you this amount of money. It's going to be crazy. We're going to do this whole thing. And my approach is, I'm going to meet you where you're at. If you find all of this overwhelming, I don't want you to burn out. I don't want to burn out. We're going to just take it easy. I think not only is that a good strategy for the therapist to not feel anxiety or feel overwhelmed and realize, oh, okay, I'm not being pressured into doing something I don't want to do, it helps our relationship over the long run, because like I said, an important part of my work is building that relationship with my client. I want to get to know you and really understand who you are and who you're trying to help before I start putting everything out there, because I want to. A big, important part of what I do is capturing your voice. And so taking it slowly allows that time and space for that to happen where I can get to know you, and then we can start to strategize or make a bigger strategy of, okay, now that we have this relationship and now that I really understand who you are and I know your voice and I understand fully what makes you unique, we can talk about a strategy that includes other things.

Dr. Kate Campbell (28:33)

I love how you're talking about meeting therapists where they're at because that's lingo that therapists know very well. They use that in the client therapist relationship all the time. And in that way, you're able to really create these personalized and customized experience experiences based on what they are needing. And it doesn't. They don't experience it as this huge, intimidating, overwhelming process. And really being able to take the time to build that relationship with them, getting to know them, getting to learn their voice, allows you to really best serve them and then for them to best serve their clients. It really comes back to your helping you help others. And I love that because Katie and I, that's something. That's why we do what we do. We want to help therapists to make themselves more accessible and findable by all of the ideal clients out there who really are looking for their services. And when they fulfill their mission, we fulfill ours. You know, it's very, very similar to that, ultimately. Misha, what do you want your. What do you want our audience to take away from your message today?

Misha Conway (29:35)

Really just, you're not in it alone. And it's okay to take things slowly as long as you're still making moving forward. It's better to move slowly than to not move forward at all. And you know, like we've been saying, outsource, you know, have this vision of what you want your practice to look like, what do you want your life to look like, and then who can help you get there? And it doesn't have to be all on your own. You don't have to do all of the marketing yourself. You don't have to do all of the business planning yourself. There's so many different aspects to running a business. And even if you're on your own running your business, you don't have to be. So just, you know, keep in mind that there are so many people out there who are ready to support you and help you on this journey.

Katie Lemieux (30:26)

Thank you so much. And I also know that you have a giveaway for our audience. What is that?

Misha Conway (30:30)

I do. If you head to hihomerketing.com pps so that's H Y H marketing. I have some, just a few tips on different ways you can market your private practice. And if you contact me and let me know that you heard me on this podcast, you'll get $50 off a new website. So that's for new clients.

Katie Lemieux (30:54)

Very cool. Well, we so appreciate you being here and just really loved listening to you, you know, share. And I think what's always, I think there's like finally come a point where we have all these different podcast guests and a lot of times they emulate a lot of the same beliefs and things like that and it's really cool just to hear that and always makes us feel like perfect. We're delivering, you know, awesome stuff as well and really supporting people with really getting what it is that they want and most importantly, working with the clients that they love and living their dream lifestyle. Like that's really important that Kate and I help therapists achieve that and know that it's possible and it's really cool to watch the results roll in. So thank you so much for being with us here, Misha. We really appreciate it. We hope you guys join us next week as we continue peppering in our little mini series. We going to have Dr. Andy Dobo join us. This is Andrew's success story. He was one of our first coaches and now an alumni and he's going to be sharing how he was able to scale into another area and grow a training company and he's had some pretty awesome success so we can't wait to talk with him and for him to share everything with you guys.

Dr. Kate Campbell (32:02)

Let's take a minute to hear our Startup Nation superhero shout out for this episode which comes from Pawel Akola. Pawel says I love their podcast, makes me feel like I'm not alone. Just like what we were talking about in this episode as I'm starting out my private practice. Plus they ask great questions and are authentic in everything that they do. Thank you so much Pawel. We love to hear your feedback and are so glad that the content that we're providing feels good to you. It's helpful, it's useful, makes you feel not alone. And you're certainly not. We got your back. If you guys are loving our podcast, definitely subscribe, rate and review. We'd love to hear your feedback. Let us know if there's a topic that you haven't heard yet that you're really craving. We would love to create that for you and as always, we hope to continue to inspire you along your journey from startup to mastery.

Katie Lemieux (32:50)

Have an awesome bye Startup Nation.

Dr. Kate Campbell (32:53)

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more. SA.