Katie Lemieux (2:18)

Well, we have the video on a screen.

Dr. Kate Campbell (2:19)

We do have the video going? Yes. So we have the podcasting gear here, and it's about chin level, and I'm pretty tall, so it's up pretty high. And on her dresser here, she has a bunch of the Willow Tree Angels. So we're podcasting with the Angels today, which is kind of fitting because I know with the podcast coming out, you guys can hear it years down the road, and you can listen to this 24 7. There's no real timestamp on it, but today is actually February, what, 21st, 2018. And on February 14th, here in Fort Lauderdale, actually Coral Springs parkland area, which is just west of where I live and very close to where Katie lives. We had a horrific tragedy in our community with the Stoneman Douglas massive school shooting. And so that was here on the 14th just a week ago. Just a week ago. It's been hard.

Katie Lemieux (3:17)

And I know as Kate, we were talking about how to intro the show, and she reminded me, and probably that's why I forgot to introduce ourselves, because it's been heavy, but the community is really coming together, really appreciating the professionals that are coming together to really help heal the community. You know, I mean, that's what we do as therapists, right? Is we're out there making a difference long after something has occurred and in the trenches. And I just can't. I just want to give a shout out to all of our amazing community and therapists because they're just wanting to give and donate and pro bono services, and what can I do? There's walks, there's vigils, and everyone is just participating. I mean, that's the beauty of this horrific tragedy. But as you guys can hear, like, my voice, I'm not my normal, regular, energetic self, but it's been difficult. We're all doing what we can to support these amazing students and families, our first responders, and the community at large.

Dr. Kate Campbell (4:13)

Yeah. So it's been really heavy, and we just needed to be authentic and transparent and let you guys into that aspect of what's been happening in our lives and our clients lives, our friends, our family, our community members. And it really has been such an amazing experience to see all of the clinicians and the community step up.

Katie Lemieux (4:33)

Yes.

Dr. Kate Campbell (4:33)

Thank you. Step up in such amazing paths, powerful ways. So in the midst of such tragedy, there is such love and healing and hope and. Yeah. So we just wanted to share with you guys and just even talk about.

Katie Lemieux (4:49)

That as we're talking about this is. I just. I want to acknowledge two amazing nonprofits here, actually in the community, because I know we have such a large presence in Florida, and I'm just committed to getting the word out any way possible. My friends, folks at tomorrow's Rainbow, Abby Masher, Marla Berger, they've actually been doing grief work with children since. For the last 12 years. And I just can't say that enough. I was actually donating blood yesterday on the blood mobile, and there was a girl there with her mom, and she actually goes to Stoneman. And we started chatting, and I said, do you guys know about tomorrow's rainbow? Please get the word out. And it was really cool. The team went on her phone and looked it up, and as mom was leaving, I was getting my blood drawn, or I guess not drawn. I guess I was giving the blood and I stopped her, and I was like, you know, talked a little bit about tomorrow's rainbow. So tomorrow's rainbow is here in Coconut creek, which is literally like, two towns away from Parkland, and they offer free grief services to children and teens. So, you know, if you're listening to this podcast, you're wondering what it is, check them out tomorrowsrainbow.org and then there's another amazing agency and nonprofit right here again in coral springs, which is next door to parkland, which is called healing hearts. Bob Rossanidi and his wife had lost their son over a decade ago, and they've made a commitment to help grieving parents. So those resources are here amongst so many others here in the community, and I just wanted to give a shout out to those, too, because our community needs them, for sure.

Dr. Kate Campbell (6:13)

Yeah, absolutely. So we just wanted to share with you guys a little bit about what's going on, and it's been tough, but it's also been, you know, an amazing community support, and everybody's stepping up, and each day we're getting stronger and stronger. Parklandstrong, right?

Katie Lemieux (6:27)

Parkland strong or Ms. D. Strong.

Dr. Kate Campbell (6:31)

Yes, exactly. So we hope you guys caught our last episode of the podcast. We actually had Jessica Dolgan from therapy partner on, and she talked about three business strategies to show your private practice who's boss. And next week, we have a really cool podcast with Sarah Lightshew.

Katie Lemieux (6:49)

Thank you.

Dr. Kate Campbell (6:49)

You have to pronounce her last name, because every time I mess it up. And she talked about how to let it go and feel less overwhelmed in private practice, which is something that I.

Katie Lemieux (6:57)

Think we all need.

Dr. Kate Campbell (6:58)

Yes. We all can benefit from at times. Right.

Katie Lemieux (7:00)

Perfected that for.

Dr. Kate Campbell (7:01)

So let's take a moment to break for today's sponsor. Today's Sponsor is actually Therapy Partner, and they are a practice management system that helps you show your practice who's boss. Therapy Partner takes care of everything from scheduling, billing, storage of client files and data, and so much more. So to focus on what you love and making a difference in people's lives, leave the rest up to Therapy Partner. Try Therapy Partner out for free for two months and you'll see in our show notes, you'll be able to click that link and enter the code TPPs, as in the private practice startup for your two months for free.

Katie Lemieux (7:37)

Awesome. So we just wanted to share with you some of the highlights that we had talked about in the podcast today that you listen to. And it's a rare opportunity that we kind of get. We sit on the other side of the mic in the sense that we're being interviewed. So we really talked about in the title of our podcast with Jessica is the mindset of a successful private practitioner. And like Kate said, this is a reverse interview where Jessica interviews us. And we really highlight really having a legacy you want to leave behind, knowing what that is. And I say this so many times to whether it's our group coaching people or individual coaching people therapist, your therapy skills are completely transferable to business. You have an edge up on the competition. Everybody out there, you know how to build rapport. You know how to connect with people. Those are really just important things to know. You also want to have an abundance mindset. It's all about collaboration, not competition. Even though I just said competition.

Dr. Kate Campbell (8:29)

Yeah. And that's one of the things that we really appreciated about connecting with Jessica from Therapy Partner, because it's, you know, they believe in the same philosophies that we do. And it's so cool because we often have this experience where we'll reach out to other people, practice building coaches, people who are doing the same thing in a different way that we're doing. And maybe in other industries or even in our industry, some people might think it's about, oh, those are your competitors. What are you doing reaching out to them? You know, stay away, stay away. But in actuality, we really don't believe in competition. It's all about collaboration and abundance. There's plenty of clients to go around. There's plenty of coaches to go around, and we all can really support each other, which is a beautiful thing. So that's one of the things I really appreciated about connecting with Jessica. And you guys all get to see that, right? Or hear that, I guess, or hear that.

Katie Lemieux (9:16)

The other important thing is you guys want to make sure that you're taking risks and it's so important to invest in yourself, your business, coaching, consultation, mentorship.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (9:24)

Do it, do it, do it.

Katie Lemieux (9:25)

And if you've heard us once before, you probably know we talk about brand and niche, brand and niche, brand and niche. I can't say that enough. So without further ado, we want you guys to enjoy the podcast. We hope you have a beautiful and blessed day and thanks again for always allowing us to inspire you From Startup to Mastery.

Dr. Kate Campbell (9:44)

Enjoy you guys.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (9:45)

Well, hello and welcome to Love youe Practice. I'm your host, Dr. Jessica Dolgan. Love youe Practice is a podcast dedicated to improving the quality of life for private practice clinicians by providing you all hopefully with this community, inspiration, wisdom and business of practice education. Love youe Practice is powered by Therapy Partner, a practice management technology designed specifically for clinicians in private practice with the explicit aim of streamlining the business side of your business. You can visit therapypartner.com at any time to explore the unique practice management technology as well as all of our Love youe Practice educational content which includes webinars, this podcast, practice building strategies, a blog, and more. So today we are really proud to welcome Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux, the founders of the private Pract startup. This has been an interview that I've been looking forward to for a long time. I'm going to tell you a little bit about these incredible women, tell you a little bit about our sponsor and then we're going to jump in and ask these ladies some questions and find out hopefully some nuggets about how they've been so successful in this industry. So the Private Practice startup is co owned by Katie Campbell and Katie Lemieux. They're two therapists with entrepreneurial spirits who live, work and play in South Florida. Kate and Katie both built their six figure private practices from the ground. Love inspiring ambitious mental health professionals to brand themselves, grow their dream private practices. They have a hunger for business branding and marketing and share their knowledge and expertise so others can also achieve the success they desire. Together they've been featured as guest experts on GoodTherapy.org, therapy sites, your Badass Therapy Practice, Abundance Practice Building Podcasts, Selling the Couch Practice of the Practice Podcast, Brighter Visions Podcasts, Taboo Talk Time Podcast Marketing Workshop Podcast and becoming a Group Guru. They provide free podcasts, webinars, online courses, private practice coaching and customizable attorney approved private practice paperwork for therapists. They look forward to inspiring you from Startup to Mastery. You can visit them anytime and I would highly encourage it@private practicestartup.com for more information. We're incredibly honored to have them with us. I'm just going to thank our sponsor real quick and then we'll jump in and let you guys get to know the Katies. So before we jump into the meat of the interview, I wanted to take a moment to thank our incredible sponsor. Today's episode is sponsored by Good Therapy, which is a business that specifically serves this industry and knows that ethical treatment is of utmost importance. And their profile directory helps therapists get there. These unique companies that we have as sponsors have set out with the intention to uniquely serve the needs of our industry, and Good Therapy is the best. If you're looking for directory listing to grow your practice so clients can find you online, they're an incredible affiliate. We feel very lucky to be collaborating with them. You can join goodtherapy.org today and become a member of the most trusted online resource for finding a therapist in this country. GoodTherapy.org has been helping millions of people find the right therapist since 2007, and they are a longtime partner of ours, and I can't recommend their services enough. So let's just move right to connecting with the Katies and welcome, both of you.

Dr. Kate Campbell (13:06)

Thank you for having us. Yes. We're so excited to be here. This is awesome. Yeah.

Katie Lemieux (13:10)

That was such a warm, like, welcome. It made me feel like. And as you're reading all those things that we've been, like, showcased or featured on, I was like, wow, like, you almost have that feeling, like, that you're talking about someone else like that. Oh, that's us.

Dr. Kate Campbell (13:22)

Oh, wait, that's us. That's funny. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (13:25)

While I was reading it, I was thinking to myself, you know, when I got involved in this industry, I think what I really wanted to see more than anything was clinicians begin to own the fact that they can be business people, that they can really have a greater impact in the community, and that they really need to get over this kind of myth that they are not able to have a wider reach and to be genuine business people. And I look at the two of you, and of course our listeners can't see you, but I see both of you there with your podcast box. And you've been on all of these shows. You're really making a great impact. Your website is beautiful. Your products are wonderful. You're easy to talk to. You genuinely care about helping these clinicians to optimize their life. And, I mean, I think you've done a great job. That's why the bio took so Long. So congratulations on all your success.

Dr. Kate Campbell (14:13)

Thank you. That's so sweet. Thank you so much, Jessica. It's so interesting for us to be on the flip side because we're used to being in your role and interviewing other people and it's fun to switch it up a little bit.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (14:22)

Yeah. Well, I feel really honored that you guys came on. I feel like, you know, therapy partner really does try to select the best affiliate partners in the country and really direct therapists to the best services. And I think that you guys really are offering this and I think they need the help and there's no reason not to ask for it. This isn't 20, 30 years ago where there was no services for clinicians to optimize their business. We now have them. And you're right there. So I want to maybe talk to. Maybe each one of you can answer this, but I think everyone who listens to our podcast, you know, we tend to focus on interviewing thought leaders, and I think of you both as thought leaders in our industry and community. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about how you two as therapists yourselves ended up deciding to move into helping therapists. Tell us maybe a little bit about your career trajectory and what inspired you guys to do this.

Dr. Kate Campbell (15:19)

So I come from a family of entrepreneurs and I always knew that I want well. When I graduated college, went on to get my master's and eventually my PhD. After that, I knew that I wanted to have a group practice. And when I first started out in private practice as a registered intern down here in the state of Florida, I was working at somebody else's practice. And I'm like, oh, if I create this beautiful office and have it all decorated, I get myself some business cards. And if I build it, they will come. I call it the field of dreams mentality. That's what we call it. And I realized the hard way that it doesn't work that way. You think that I was coming from this family of entrepreneurs and very business minded people that I would know more about business? Right. So I went to graduate school. I became a great clinician. I was ready to change the world. And then I was drowning in my overhead expenses and I learned the hard way about how to build a practice and kind of learn things backwards. So it took a lot longer for me to figure out what it takes to be a thriving private practitioner. And then once I did learn the branding and the marketing and the whole business side of the business, I was able to have a six figure plus private practice, a group practice, and then over the Years, I would naturally attract clinicians who wanted to do the same. They're like, how did you do what you did? And then I just so loved coaching them, and it was something I was just naturally attracting, and I was loving it. And simultaneously, Katie had. And you can share your story as well, because, you know, we're both. We have a little bit different stories. Katie had her successful private practice out west in Coral Springs, and we worked together on the Broward association for Marriage and Family Therapy as president and vice president for three years. And before that, we actually. We met in licensure supervision in 2006.

Katie Lemieux (16:56)

Yeah. So we've actually known each other for a long time. And then we've, like Kate said, we became president and vice president of our local chapter. And we found that we work so well together. Our leadership qualities, our business, getting things done. I mean, the team, the whole board was very responsive. We resurrected a dead board. And I had always loved training, and that's like one of my, like, that's like my stage. Right. I love to train. I love to have fun. And Kate had said, you know, I'd really love to do a training with you. And I said, great, you know, and so we developed the supervision course here in the state of Florida, which is required course for people who want to become supervisors, which is still one of our staples. And we're doing that in two weeks. So that's fun. That's a lot of fun for us. And then we realized that we didn't want to just be a local or statewide company, that we really wanted to expand into the online world. And Kate had listened to John Lee Dumas, entrepreneur on fire, and said, we need some podcasts. And I'm like, okay, sure, basically, whatever you said. Yeah, two years ago. And then we just, like, have been, you know, hitting the ground running and systemizing and cleaning up. Like, it's just a constant, like, how do we optimize things and create good stuff since then?

Dr. Kate Campbell (18:07)

So we both realized that clinicians really didn't have the business and marketing know how, and that that was something that they were really struggling with and needing. And we both were enjoying the private practice coaching. So we. The private practice startup was born officially just over two years ago. Then we realized that we didn't want to do everything related to private practice, to all the nuts and bolts and everything like that. We really are most passionate about the branding and marketing aspects, and so we've really honed in on that and being able to help other clinicians know how to authentically brand Themselves and market their practices and. Yeah, so that's kind of how our story came to be.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (18:48)

Yeah. Well, you guys have had an exponential impact thus far. And being somebody who's been in the industry for a while, we've been watching this and it's really nice to see how hard you, as you said yourself, hit the ground running and the type of impact you've had for clinicians. One of the questions that I have about, for thought leaders, as a general rule, and I sent you this earlier, I don't know if you had time to reflect on this in particular, but I'm curious for each one of you personally. When we're advisors to clinicians, we effectively have to work with them on any self limiting beliefs they have around their own success. Removing their upper limit, allowing themselves to have a kind of boundary list career where they can be as successful as they would like to be, removing any sort of shame or money shame and really asking them to take a hard look at themselves. Similarly to what we do with patients. It's interesting that it's such a dual process. Right? We're working with patients, we're asking them to become an optimized self and people like you and I are in the business of helping these clinicians to be optimized themselves. One of the questions I have for both of you is how did you each get past any of your. How did you. And how do you continue to work with yourself to get past your own self limiting beliefs and to take the risks that you needed to do and to have some risk tolerance to pursue something great. You have had to get past this yourself. There's not a person who doesn't have some limitations. And I'd love it if you could tell our audience about how you got through that process yourself and then subsequently how you teach people to do that.

Katie Lemieux (20:23)

So for me, in reading the bio, we usually tell a little like personal stuff about ourselves. And Katie's like the foodie and Kate's the foodie and the wino. And I'm a personal growth junkie. I've been doing like personal growth stuff forever and I continue to invest in myself. And so one of my big places. So my story is a little bit different. I was in community mental health and I was, I've been in management and leadership positions since I was 26 years old. And my staff was the one that pushed me out of my program. They're like, Katie, you're too good to be here so you need to get out. But I had to get over a lot of my own money beliefs. So one of the things that I work really hard on is my own money beliefs. So it's just constantly investing in books and personal professional growth. I actually, this is a joke, but it's. The truth is that I only read two books my entire college career. I hated reading. I thought I could, like, learn better from a presentation. But I had a business coach for a year and he said to me, to me, oh, he had this really cool exercise and I was excited to do it. And I was like, hey, Michael, send me the exercise. He goes, did you read the book I sent you? I go, no, I'm not a reader. He's like, then no exercise. I was like, okay. So I like, literally took the book and set my timer on my phone 10 minutes every day and read only 10 minutes because I hated reading.

Dr. Kate Campbell (21:38)

But last.

Katie Lemieux (21:39)

So my first year actually reading, I read 11 books and then I read 19. And I'm going to read over 24 books this year. And I've just like. So I'm constantly investing and, you know, books reading. I have a mastermind group. So I think my daily life is just flooded with personal and professional growth things. I just, I swim in it.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (21:58)

Do you think it's fair, Katie, to say that? Do you think that part of your interest in not only reading the way that you've been reading, do you notice that there's any correlation with entrepreneurial clinicians and or business people just being naturally curious? Do you find that you've finally been able to tap into some curiosity? I know that's something that I like to recommend. You know, naturally curious people, people who are curious and just want to take in data without the judgment around what we're going to do with the data. Just reading, spending time listening to these podcasts. You know, clinicians are taught in school to spend a lot of time in supervisory activities, seek consultation, don't focus outside of your scope of competence. We rarely encourage them to read business books, to learn about us, how to manage their books, to think about how to utilize technology, to listen to a podcast like yours, or to get good legal advice. We really don't support them being cur about the business of practice. And I wonder if your curiosity, you think, triggers a lot of what you guys have gotten your hands into.

Katie Lemieux (23:00)

That's a good question. I've never reflected on that. I guess I can speak from my own personal experiences. I never thought I was going to be in business. I thought I would, like, live and die in community mental health. And I was petrified to be in business so much. When I finally left my job, I couldn't breathe for six weeks. And so I realized I just have a passion and hunger for business. And for me personally, it's like, like when I work out, if I don't get to number 20 rep and I quit at 18, I'm okay with that. But with business, I just don't have an off switch. And I think the fun thing for me at least about business is when you throw something out there or you do some type of marketing technique and you get poor feedback, you're like, okay, what didn't work? What went wrong? What can I change? And that process is like a game for me and it's exciting. And so that really just like keeps me engaged. But I love your question about like, do naturally curious people, are they kind of curious about how to better themselves? I would assume maybe, yeah. I mean, if you're in the constant state of curiosity, you know, maybe you just kind of weren't want to learn and grow and suck in all that information.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (24:04)

Yeah, I call it like learning without judgment. Right. I mean, then what I liked when I looked at your website and looked through all your materials and heard about you all and it came to my attention was, you know, I really feel that you are encouraging clinicians to enjoy the process of learning how to run a business and to not become paralyzed by the fear around how to do it, that it's actually empowering, freeing. They can earn more, they can run more ethically sound businesses by getting this assistant. But the first step always is giving ourselves some permission. That's why I was curious about what it took for you guys to give yourself permission, yourself to pursue this business. And then what it takes to get these therapists to get out of their own way, ask for help, and become curious about the business of this business.

Dr. Kate Campbell (24:53)

I know you asked the question earlier and I'll come back to that, but I wanted to respond to this point about curiosity because one of the things that Katie and I talk about with our coachees and with Startup Nation is that therapists already have the business skills. They just don't realize that they have them. And that natural, genuine curiosity, that's a micro skill that's taught and that's like a natural aspect of just being a clinician. We have to be curious about our clients lives and experiences and all of that. We can utilize those same micro skills that we have, like joining as a way to connect with people and build relationships through marketing. There's just so many ways that therapists already have the skills. They have that skill set innate within them, and they learn it in grad school. It's just applying it in a different way so that natural genuine curiosity can apply the same way to building and growing and learning more both personally and professionally as entrepreneurs.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (25:49)

I think Kate and I talked about this last time, but Harvard Business Journal put out essentially a grouping of articles all on the most effective leaders and what skill sets primarily these individuals seem to have when the information was distilled. After looking at all of these research studies on leadership, in the end, what became incredibly compelling for folks like us and for people who are listening is the greatest leaders who've had the largest impact. And I'm not just talking about social impact, which we tend to know about, that these people, like someone like a Martin Luther King, is high eq. They've actually had grave impact on business on the whole, in terms of earnings as well. These high social and emotional intelligence individuals make very effective leaders. They also make for very good business people. And to me, these are the therapists that we spend our day with, right? They all are intuitive, empathic, socially and emotionally bright. The question is, how do you take all of those skills and get them to really be tolerant of using them to grow their own business and to, as we talked about, remove any shame or barriers to their own success? But it is. I'm so glad you guys are talking about this. Their intrinsic natural skill set makes them a great fit for this, for this work that you're having them do. Let me ask you this. When you meet a group of therapists and you're reflecting on the way they come to you, what do you think the current space is looking like? Are you seeing clinicians shift and start starting at an earlier space in their career or even later stage Clinicians starting to understand the benefits, not just financially, of running an optimized business, but are you seeing that they're starting to understand that this is kind of spiritual, spiritually and emotionally and professionally and personally good for them too, to run a sound, streamlined business?

Dr. Kate Campbell (27:49)

I would say that there's definitely a lot more awareness about the benefits of being in private practice. And it's something that even graduate schools are now starting to incorporate and talk about. And every now and then you'll hear about a graduate class at, you know, in a master's level PhD or, you know, private practice track, which is amazing because it is something that when you think about being in business, you want to think about your lifestyle and how that business can support the lifestyle that you want and then also how you can follow your passion and your purpose and feel like you're really in alignment with making a difference in the way that you want to and working with the clients that you most love working with and are best to work with and then also being able to make a really good living while you do. So I would say I definitely becoming a lot more mainstream and a lot more accepted for people to go in that direction. What about you?

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (28:43)

And you talk about branding too, which I just love that it's right out there. It's right out there on the website. You brought it up earlier. Can you tell clinicians that are still wondering about whether they should pursue getting business development time or business consulting with individuals like you, using product lines like you develop about what branding looks like for a clinician. I'd love to hear it from the two of you. What does a well branded clinician look like?

Katie Lemieux (29:08)

So before we answer that question, I want to say yes, yes and yes. Get professional development coaching, mentoring. One of the things, and as you're talking about branding and we'll talk about what that looks like is I would say one of the biggest mistakes that we both made coming into private practice, and I see this constantly, and actually Kate and I are doing a podcast in a month on this very topic is we did the same thing, we got into practice and we said, what should my name be? Where should my office be? How do I get a domain? How do I get incorporated? Those are the things that therapists ask. We say, absolutely don't do that. What we say is branding an ideal client first. Because every. I get like chills when I talk about this because I'm just so passionate about it. Because everything falls into place. Because when you know who your ideal client is and your brand, then your name comes, your name and your website. You know what to put on your website, you know what to say. And I'm hearing chills right now as I'm talking about this. This is ridiculous. But that's how excited I am about it. So branding is really the experience that your client has with you, your business and everything about it. And of course, we can think of big name companies like Amazon, Google and things like that and we can all think about how does that company make me feel or what is the one word when I think about this company? Like I think Amazon, convenience comes to mind, right? And so when you're clear on your brand, it becomes this guideline and this guidepost on how to portray yourself in business, how to market, who to bring on if you want to grow your business, there's so much that incorporates that. And a lot of times therapists also, if they're not trained in understanding their brand and their ideal client is, they look through their own eyes. I worked with a coachee, and she's like, oh, I have this idea for my website, and I'm gonna put a beach scene, and I'm gonna put dog paws because I love dog paw. And I said, I'm just about to rock your world, and I'm just going to ruin your vision. Is that okay? And she goes, yeah, well, I paid you for as my coach.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (31:03)

Yes.

Katie Lemieux (31:04)

And I said, sandy, because we already had this conversation, I said, I love you. I said, but no one gives a crap about that. That's you. Your ideal client might not be interested in dog paws on the beach. And that's the part where we look through our own eyes and we're trying to think, like, projecting ourselves out into the world rather than saying, what is my ideal client looking for? And we help clinicians do that process.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (31:26)

I'm so glad we're talking about this. You know, we teach a webinar here about, you know, capturing optimal referrals from optimal referral sources. And I think that this is a great way for us to help the community who's listening to understand that, first of all, when you have an optimal patient coming to your office, I think it's really important for all of us, just like you said, to think about who you want to work with and who you work with best. I like to liken this to a primary care physician model, right? When we decide what our area of expertise is, our niche expertise, and then we promote that, we make it easier for ideal patients to find us, we lower our ethical and legal liability because we're not trying to be everything to everybody. We're the best at what we do. The community pays experts a disproportionately higher amount in every single profession. And when push comes to shove and our families are struggling or our children are struggling or someone needs our help, we don't ask what is the cheapest person I can find or who has the widest branch of skills. We say, I need an expert, and I need an expert. Now, I think what. Also I might just kind of jump in and talk a teeny bit about referral sources, too, which is really interesting. I think that, you know, there's some of the older methodology about how to connect with referral sources. And I always like to say, you know, when we're thinking about Intention. In business, when we solve the problems of other people we saw solve our own problems. Right. Primary care physicians have to see 300 patients a day. When they are in an office with somebody who has PTSD or has just had a traumatic loss or has had an assault. They don't have time to review every card from every therapist that was dropped off at their desk and to try to remember what your area of specialty is. Because the therapists are resistant to having an area of specialization or branding themselves or being self promoting. When you are an expert in one way and you brand your business well, that referral source immediately knows how to find you. I recommend that people use a consultation card. They actually use a referral card. They give a primary care physician's office referral cards that say this is what this person does. So then you have, you have optimal referrals and optimal referral sources. This is how you actually build a business. And then when you want to have associates, you already have an area of specialization. And you are absolutely right. I couldn't agree with this more. It really starts not what, with what you want, it starts with what the community is calling for.

Katie Lemieux (33:56)

Right, exactly. And in your area of specialty, right, what it is that you want to do and what is it that they need.

Dr. Kate Campbell (34:01)

And that's where it's so important to be clear on your brand and have that foundation so you know your brand, your core values as a brand, what are your values, what are the most important things that you want to stay in alignment with so that you're attracting the kinds of people that you're most passionate about working with your most skilled, you're most fulfilled by working with them because the work that you do with them is going to be so much incredibly better than if you were just working with every other problem that presented in your office. And then also as you're building that and you're getting the word of mouth referrals, being able to align yourself and partner with other professionals and companies and organizations who are going to be, who are going to share similar values and really be connected in a genuine way. Just, you know, earlier this week I was having a conversation with the Sarahs from therapy partner from your company. And it was so amazing because it was so clear that we shared something similar values as a company and as an organization. And the conversation was just, it was awesome. It was inspiring. I left feeling like energized and now I'm so excited to have another amazing company to partner with and to collaborate with moving forward. And then today to be Able to meet you and hear your thoughts. It's just like, it's so awesome. I get the warm fuzzies inside when that stuff happens, because it's like, yes, there's people who think the way we do. And, like, this is just such a cool connection.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (35:24)

I feel the same way. And I've been thinking to myself this whole time, there's probably a Kate and Katie cohort, effectively, of clinicians that are, like, now coming out across the country. It's true, right? We generationally have made some shifts. There didn't used to be practice management software. There didn't used to be consultants that would help you brand your business like you both do. And I'd love for you to reflect with me if we thought about this future. Your Kate and Katie cohort that has come out of your business that you've optimized, you've coached, you've inspired, you've provided them with wisdom. They feel properly prepared to take on the world of private practice and to really succeed. Can you give me and the audience any sort of factors of what these clinicians look like, your most successful breed of clinician that you have turned out thus far? What are the qualities of these people with maybe when they start with you and then when they're done? And what does a well optimized, empowered, engaged, business savvy clinician look like?

Dr. Kate Campbell (36:28)

That's such a cool question.

Katie Lemieux (36:29)

I know. I was like, damn, Jessica, you are a good therapist because you're asking some really intriguing questions.

Dr. Kate Campbell (36:35)

Really good questions.

Katie Lemieux (36:36)

Okay, so since I'm formulating an answer first, I see you're formulating Kate.

Dr. Kate Campbell (36:40)

So we're both formulating. Yeah.

Katie Lemieux (36:42)

One I think initially is they're afraid, they're lost, they're unsure, and then on the outside, they're clear, they're excited, they feel empowered, they know they can do it, and they know that they can. Just as easily as we plug our phone charger into the electrical outlet to charge our phone. They know that they can contact us at any time and we're celebrating their wins. Whereas it's, you know, it's. I feel like, even more excited for their wins than our wins. And it's just so exciting because not. It's this really cool effect because not only do we get to coach some awesome people, but when they actually come out in the world and they brand themselves or whatever they're doing, they're already stuck in our mind. Someone posted about EMDR training. I was like, oh, Andy Dobo. We coached Andy. He's great. So it has this trifecta effect, it's very synchronous. It's awesome. So that's what I would say. What would you say?

Dr. Kate Campbell (37:37)

Yeah, I mean, very similar. People come in and they're stuck and they feel overwhelmed, they feel frustrated, they have these goals, but they don't know how to get there. And sometimes they're just paralyzed. Because when you look at marketing as a whole, it can be so intimidating and all the shiny objects and all the options and things that directions that they can go and it's like, oh, but I'm consuming all this content and I hear of, you know, I need to do adwords and I need to have a website and I need to go networking and I need to do all these things. And they get so overwhelmed that it's like, oh my God, I don't even know what direction to go in. So it's that feeling stuck, feeling frustrated and just kind of lost and overwhelmed. And then they come out of it with, with such a clarity of their message, of their brand. It's an alignment with who they are, with the lifestyle they want to live. They're so clear on their ideal clients and how to craft marketing messages that attract their ideal clients. So marketing becomes this very natural and organic relationship building and nurturing experience. It's not like this uncomfortable, intimidating feeling like icky, sleazy, salesy, imposing approach. It's just something that works so effectively and they feel confident in that and they feel passionate because they're doing the work that they love and they're making a good income while making an impact.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (38:57)

Well, I think, you know, it's. I love hearing you say this because I think it's very helpful for people who are listening to be thinking about. Sometimes it's hard to envision, you know, my mother used to say the most annoying thing and. But it's a very true thing. I found it obnoxious. She would just say she was from the Bronx, you know. You know, she's like, you don't know what you don't know. That was what she would say. She's like, well, you don't know what you don't, you don't know what you don't know. And the truth of the matter is I feel like there's some great abundance and wealth and warmth and love that comes from running a business optimally that people don't know. They don't know until they approach this, you know. We did an activity here at Therapy Partner, a brainstorm with our staff about, pardon me, what a leveled up clinician actually looks like, like what is a leveled up clinician? What are the characteristics of these individuals that have gone to the Caton Katie program or they utilize the right technology or they're visiting any of our other partners. You guys have partners all over the industry, so do I. They're engaging with the best of the best. As I say, they've separated out business operations time from business development time. They're not just in their business, they're actually running the business, not letting it run them, showing their practice who's boss. So what are the characteristics of these people? And to me, I really like that we went over some of these today for our audience. One, they see the patients that they would be best seeing. They see optimal referrals and they have optimal referral sources. I think they embrace technology, they utilize technology. I always say you can't be worth $170 an hour at 4pm in the afternoon and worth $9 an hour at 9am you're either one or the other. You need to rely on technology and the benefits of good marketing and good advertising. I think leveled up clinicians are okay making money and they also recognize that when they, they can make broader contributions by way of pro bono work with people as well, they actually can give back. I also think they're really proud of what they do. They're proud of their space, they're proud of their brand, they're proud of the work that they provide to patients. Their patients actually get better and thrive. And this is something that's a little bit of a leap. And I wanted to talk to you both about what you think is going on in our industry. But to me, and Kate and I talked about this a little bit, I actually think there's a great deal of pressure for all of us to level up our business, businesses as clinicians, because we are answering a very large cry of mental health issues around the country. The public is actually figured out that the mind and body are connected and they now are calling for services and for help. And if every clinician you ever speak to will say they deeply care about mental health, they care about mental health, they care about advocacy, they want the public to get access to it. If you ask them if they're willing to promote their own business, they're like, no. So what Kate and I talked about last week is if you can't do it for yourself, do it for the community. Because this cohort, this Kate and Katie cohort that comes out, maybe they use your services, maybe they have a good therapy directory listing They've got a really solid website. They use a practice management device so that all of their healthcare data and financial data are secure. They level up their business. These are individuals who are making a greater, larger contribution to the mental health industry and to the community. And I wonder if you guys are starting to see shifts in. I mean, obviously you're working with bulk clinicians, right? A lot of clinicians. Are you seeing that there is a shift in public awareness around mental health and around these. Do your, do your past clientele come back to you and let you know? You know, I think I'm having a greater impact in my community or I'm providing more psycho education to the community, or I'm shifting mental health because my business is connected. I mean, effectively. What I'm asking is, do you like. I think that these two things are related.

Dr. Kate Campbell (42:48)

I mean, the culture of mental health and awareness and the stigma that's present, it's definitely reducing therapies, becoming more mainstream. You know, it's. You see it more in the media, it's more accepted, more accessibility, like with.

Katie Lemieux (43:03)

Technology assistant counseling and then other experiential counseling.

Dr. Kate Campbell (43:06)

Yeah. And that's one of the reasons we're also so passionate about what we do, because it helps us have a greater reach in making an impact and a difference in the world. Because all of the clinicians that we help that are able to build their thriving practices and working with the clients that they love, that they are, you know, most excel working at, they do excellent work. And when clients experience excellent clinical. When they have an excellent clinical experience, they go out and they talk about it and that reduces the stigma. And, and it's all like a cyclical thing that's really helping to change the culture of mental health, which is really powerful.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (43:42)

In fact, I think there might not be. There has never been a more important time for clinicians to get it right. And I don't wanna say anything that sounds too dark today, but essentially we also, I think, have a. Just like when we take our. We sign on to be doctors and clinicians and therapists, we have an ethical guideline, ethical guidelines and legal guidelines that we practice underneath. I also think that we have a community responsibility to provide really good services. I think we have a responsibility to make sure when someone is suffering in their home and they go online, that they can actually find our business, that they know what our area of expertise is, that they know the differences between our credentials, that they know how to shop a good therapist, that they understand what their paperwork means, that they have a Good, secure experience. We don't breach their confidentiality, texting or emailing about them. I actually think that we're under a larger microscope than we've ever been because just like you said, the stigma is changing. There's never been a better time to have a great business and make sure that it's really well protected because I think it has a great impact. I remember reading an article very early postgraduate school about I'm a child adolescent specialist, reading an article about that they had done a research study that indicated that if an adolescent had a poor experience with a doctor or therapist, that they had a substantially diminished likelihood, if they ever had a likelihood at all, of ever returning to treatment again.

Katie Lemieux (45:10)

I could totally believe that.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (45:11)

And so, you know, I think that sometimes we forget that we're actually doing the public a favor. And the reason I said, I say this is because I think sometimes therapists are givers. They're really willing when they hear about it this way, they're like, yeah, this does make sense. We got to get together, we got to work hard together to change this and we have to run great businesses. Which brings me to a question. I didn't put it on the list. So you guys are handling this really well because I've heard things and then I want to ask you about them. What do you tell therapists about being so competitive with one another?

Dr. Kate Campbell (45:40)

Oh my gosh. We were just talking about this earlier. You know, Katie and I really, truly believe, like at our core we don't believe in competition. We really believe in abundance and collaboration. And there's so many clients to go around. So many clients to go around. So when you're clear on who you are, who you serve, and really authentically able to convey that message and attract your ideal clients, you're going to be able to attract the clients that are going to work best with you. And you can refer the rest out.

Katie Lemieux (46:12)

Yeah, I was just thinking.

Dr. Kate Campbell (46:17)

And I.

Katie Lemieux (46:17)

Have our private practice paperwork, but we have some business paperwork forms and people have asked us, oh, well, do you have a non compete. Nope, we don't believe in that. We don't sell that. We don't. Why? What do you need a non compete for? If you are comfortable and clear enough with what you do and who you are, like he said, there's just plenty to go around and you specialize in a certain area or you should, and you'll just find those clients because they'll find you. And when you can authentically step into yourself, you know, it's, it's just, it's it's perfect. So, yeah, we definitely do not believe in competition. It's just collaboration all the way.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (46:51)

Well, the thing is, I'm so glad. I'm. Thank you for saying that because I think clinicians worry about this. Right. This is more about how do they differentiate, differentiate themselves from one another and how do they have a strong brand and bring their best services to life and actually brand their businesses in a way that suits them. Right. You don't want to look like everybody else or act like everybody else. Right. When you come to my business, I don't want you to sit on the couch and be surprised that I come out. You're like, I want the actual physical environment to be like, yeah, pretty much looks like Jessica's office is no surprise here.

Dr. Kate Campbell (47:24)

Right.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (47:24)

You know, you know, you have this experience, sometimes you go to somebody's home and they want the house to be so accessible to everybody that they decorate it for everybody and they forget to decorate it for themselves. And either the house feels vacuous or vapid and doesn't feel like it has anything to do with them, or you feel like the house feels disconnected for them.

Dr. Kate Campbell (47:42)

You have to find a way to stand out in a saturated marketplace because there's so many private practitioners out there. And if you're a generalist, you're not going to stand out. Even if you niche, you may not stand out. You have to really get so specific, narrow with your niche or having a few different niches and putting that message out there in a way that you're really being the expert and the people, you're the go to person for whatever presenting problem people are struggling with.

Katie Lemieux (48:10)

Honestly, when you and I talk, Jessica, I mean you even said, and I had asked you like you're friends with who people would deem your quote unquote competition. You're like, oh, well, we're friends. Yeah, why not? And you know, it's cool that we can collaborate because we can actually support each other. And I even think about the private practice coaching industry. There's so many different niches amongst all of us consultants. And I think instead of like feeling competitive, I think there's this yearning of oh, I wish we did that or oh, that's such a great idea, I can't copy them now. But that's so good, you know what I mean? And so there's this yearning and then we refer them.

Dr. Kate Campbell (48:42)

Yeah. I mean we've developed friendships, genuine friendships with our so called competitors. We really don't see them that way. And it's interesting because you can see who has that scarcity mindset and who does believe in competition. Because we have tried to make genuine connections and build relationships with some practice building coaches and, and it's like been crickets and it just hasn't really happened. So it's like, okay, well, they're not really in alignment with this whole collaboration and that's okay.

Katie Lemieux (49:11)

Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (49:11)

I appreciate you saying do their thing.

Dr. Kate Campbell (49:14)

It's totally fine.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (49:15)

I appreciate you saying scarcity. I think that functioning anytime from a place of fear, which is hard, you have to be risk tolerant in business. And I think sometimes people tell themselves a story. Someone had the money or they had the experience or they went to business school. It's not true. It requires a certain amount of risk tolerance. There's lots of us who came from very, very. And honestly, I like to think about what would happen if we had a storm in the forest. Well, we certainly wouldn't separate from one another. You put your backs up in a storm is actually how you handle it and that's how you stay safe and you stay dry. And the truth of the matter is there's a million licensed mental health clinicians in this country. There's plenty of room for them to use any practice management technology. I always say, as long as you're using something, please, if you're not using any technology to protect your patients, healthcare and financial data, or to streamline your business or to understand your earnings or to get encrypted statements out, then I don't care whose technology you use, just please don't do it yourself. Because you didn't go to school to be an administrator, you went to school to be a clinician or therapist or doctor or psychiatrist. And same goes for you, right? There's a, there's a million therapists who are potentially listening, who have not got consultative services. And I think the best way to stand out from your competition truly is to level up, up all across the board. You just decide to run this business like a business and to own it. Lift the ceiling off. Start thinking about earning a decent amount of money, start thinking about seeing the patients that you're best at seeing. Start thinking about employing other clinicians who have no interest in listening to this podcast or coming to anything like this. They want to work for someone else. Start thinking about how to help those people. Work for a business like yours and brand yourself well and then have all of your, all of the protections in place so that the business operates well. So that when you leave at night and you lock the door, you actually Go home and enjoy the space and freedom necessary to recalibrate as a clinician, because this is not an easy job. And when you talk to them on the phone, you and I talk to them all day. The things that they're the most worried about are like, you know, the financial data protection or how to send a secure statement, or they're worried about how to put up a website. And now they don't have to worry anymore. There's really places to go, there's people to ask. You are an incredible resource for them. Them. I hope that people will call you, they will utilize all of your resources, they will ask for referrals, and that they will take also some inspiration and wisdom from the risks that you both took. You could have stayed in your private practice yourself and you decided to help other people and broaden your reach. And there's something really remarkable about that, which makes me want to ask you about your legacy, because I'll probably have. We'll have hopefully another conversation. I'd like to ask for you guys to come back and maybe do a particular teaching on the podcast. I'll sit more quietly. Maybe you can teach our listeners some of the most these incredible things that you know. But if Kate and Katie had a legacy, what would that look like? You're, you're, you know, we fast forward. You've made a solid professional contribution. What do you, what do you want that to look like?

Katie Lemieux (52:18)

So Jessica's like turning our tricks around on us.

Dr. Kate Campbell (52:20)

I know.

Katie Lemieux (52:21)

So this, it's funny because as. Yep. I help people go through their vision, mission, and their culture. We say, what is the legacy you.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (52:27)

Want to leave behind?

Katie Lemieux (52:28)

Your 100 year goal? So I don't know that I've ever. I know I've answered mine, but what is the legacy that I want to leave behind? So for me, interestingly enough, is I always want to see how far the rabbit hole will go for me. Kate and I are in this place also too. Like, we're wanting to move more out of private practice, do more of this. And I even want to help build my spouse's business. So for me, it's being able to create business. I love Marcus Lemonis. He's the prophet on tv. And so being able to help, like, organize help people, like, really organize. Businesses come together because businesses help other people. They help our economy, they help our community. I mean, everything that you touch in a day is a business. Everything. You're sitting a chair, this podcast mic, this drink, Arctic. I'm drinking out of our phones. It's All a business. And thank God for business owners, because then we wouldn't have the things that we have. So the impact that I would want to leave is to really help people feel inspired. And I know you had said there's some people that maybe don't want to be a business owner.

Dr. Kate Campbell (53:29)

And that's clear.

Katie Lemieux (53:30)

As long as you're clear. Great, fantastic. But for those who really want to do that, I want to continue to inspire them and I continue to inspire myself so I can inspire others. So leaving the world a better place through helping and supporting businesses.

Dr. Kate Campbell (53:42)

Yeah. I mean, our vision is inspiring mental health professionals across the globe to brand themselves and grow their dream practices. And that's, you know, that really answers your question, is being able to help people develop their authentic brand and grow their dream private practices and live the lifestyle that they really want. You know, that's really the main focus of what we do and why we do what we do. And when we see clinicians doing just that, it's like, it is just so incredibly inspiring and rewarding and it's amazing.

Katie Lemieux (54:13)

Yeah. When they're excited about it, that's like.

Dr. Kate Campbell (54:15)

When they see the results. When they see the results and we.

Katie Lemieux (54:18)

Get the email or the message or whatever. That's not fair. You have more time to think while I was answering, so you just made it super simple. Thanks.

Dr. Kate Campbell (54:25)

Well, you just jumped in. You jumped in.

Katie Lemieux (54:28)

I did. You're like, oh, that's what happens when you're clear on your vision.

Dr. Kate Campbell (54:35)

Right.

Katie Lemieux (54:35)

Kate could just tell you and answer that question so simply.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (54:38)

Yeah. The other thing is, I mean, obviously I'm just backtracking because I can't let it go. I want to talk about the non compete issue one more time. And I feel like, I think it was you, Kate, that just helped me, you know, want to go back and reflect on it just a little bit more for our audience. I will tell you when you. To me, when a person has a fully optimized business, they have done these things you just talked about. Right. They have actually followed your legacy. Right. They have decided to have a business they feel extremely good about. It's exceptional. It runs in an. It's operationally a streamlined, it's abundant, gives back to the community. The time to actually have a non compete is when you have associates working for you and you have branded your business, you have built a financial plan, you have drawn in optimal referrals and referral sources, you have sat on podcasts like this, you have engaged in continuing education to learn to grow your business. You have Invested the time and energy to build something that has a greater reach because you've added associates and what you don't want them to do is take exactly what you just did, spent your time, your money, your energy in, and repeat it down the block with the same colors and the same textures and the same message. And to take the clients, as I say, pull a rider truck up and take the clients out of the back of the practice. So when people are worried, I think people worry about competition very, very early on in business instead of worrying about it a little bit later. Once you've taugh someone all your business methodology and you've taken all this time to learn from folks like yourselves and myself, that is the time to preserve your nest egg and what you've built and to make sure that you're not getting into business with people who are taking advantage of the time that you've spent to actually grow your business. Outside of that, there's really no place for functioning. As you said Katie, with scarcity, you don't need to worry and function from a place of scarcity. You can function from a place of abundance. As I said say people who should be worried about that actually have something large to protect. They built a clinic, perhaps even a clinic. I've started to talk to clinicians in our podcast and through our education about exit strategy, people are now selling practices. I mean this is something people did not think about before psychiatrists did. But psychologists or therapists never thought about exit strategy by way of selling a business and the clientele that go with it. But if you built a 12 associate practice in your area or multi location practice, you may be able to exit that. And so protecting what you have built in your business is a real thing. And what I love about it is the fact that we've even gotten to the place where therapists are building these. This is a sign that they have gotten business training, they've met with people like you, and that they're believing in the dream. I want to ask, when people come to the website, I want you to tell our listeners how to engage. I go to a website, people tell me to go to a website and then I go there and I read around. Tell me what you want these people to do. You want them to come to the website, what do you want them to ask from you? Where do they start? What do they do first?

Katie Lemieux (57:40)

So actually we make it really super simple for people to engage with us right on our website. We invite people to grab a copy of our A to Z cheat sheet. Cheat Sheet essentials for building and growing your dream practice. So you'll see our smiling faces. Of course we're in Florida so we have to have water in the background. I think we have tanks on too as well, Professional, nice looking tanks. But right there is just, you know, a link, a button to grab that and then, and then you begin to come in to our world and we nurture that relationship. We invite you into Facebook and we're constantly just trying to provide service, content, information, questions, and so really it's Facebook and really grabbing that copy. What else would you say?

Dr. Kate Campbell (58:20)

Yeah, I was going to say very similar. As soon as they visit our website, they'll see the call to action where we're inviting them to download the A to Z cheat sheet. And then we invite them into our Startup Nation community. So we invite them there and that's where we can nurture the relationship and offer ninja tips, tricks and hacks for practice building and growing.

Katie Lemieux (58:42)

We did Facebook Live yesterday with another consultant. We put a video in there today.

Dr. Kate Campbell (58:46)

Yeah, a ton of resources under our resource tab that they can download if they're interested in our attorney approved private practice paperwork. They can download the free HIPAA form there. And then we also have of course under our services, we have coaching, we have trainings, we have web, we have under our shop the paperwork and online courses. Just an abundant of things. So it's pretty easy to navigate and we would love to be able to connect with people within our Facebook community. That's the place where we're most active and they get daily responses not only from us, but also from 3,000 plus people and growing every day with Startup Nation and then also partners and people that we've collaborated with that are professionals who support private practitioners like yourself, Jessica. So yeah, that's great.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (59:31)

Well, first of all, I appreciate you saying that. I do think all of our listeners should go to private practicestartup.com for more information. They should follow these instructions and tips. They should just get with you ladies and start thinking about leveling up their business. It absolutely can happen. I think it's good for us to ask you back again is the truth of the matter. I think I could talk to each one of you or both of you again. I think that you make great contributors to love your practice. We appreciate the fact that you encourage the clinicians that you work with to really embrace technology in their business and to make their to safeguard their businesses. I want to remind you all that all of your current customers receive a 60 day free trial of therapy partner if they come through you, since you're a partner of ours, I really appreciate you coming on. There's so much we could talk about. I'd love for you to consider coming back on maybe in Q2 or Q3 and providing a specific training. Maybe going through some of those A to Z items. Some quick tips would be great, especially items that just really stimulate people to get started. I think once people are in advising services and they feel that they have the consultative support probably no different than their patients, it gets the ball rolling. The real question again is just like our patients, how do we get these clinicians take the first step and realize that you can level up an entire business, that there's tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on the table, there's patients that need to be seen and you're the ladies to help them get their business there. So I think you should be incredibly proud of yourselves. I think you have a remarkable business. I think you're making a remarkable contrib our industry. I think you are thought leaders and I'm very grateful you came on.

Katie Lemieux (61:08)

Thank you.

Dr. Kate Campbell (61:09)

Right back at you, Jessica. Thank you so much. It's been an honor to be on today and we've just so thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and would love to come back. Of course, love to come back and would love to have you back on ours as well. And I know we talked about potential webinars and all sorts of good stuff with the Sarahs earlier this week. I'm sure they circled back with you and we'll talk more about those future connections. But yeah, it's great to connect with you and we continue to we forward to look, look forward to a continued relationship.

Dr. Jessica Dolgan (61:35)

Thank you guys so much. And for our therapy partner customers that are listening and our prospective customers that are listening, please visit Kate and Katie@privatepracticestartup.com for more information. I do want to thank our sponsor one more time before I jump off. So again, today's episode was sponsored by Good Therapy. Good Therapy is a profile directory and it specifically helps clinicians to be found in the most ethical manner possible. If you really want to attract, as we talked about all day today, optimal clientele, you'll get yourself a goodtherapy.org profile directory listing. And you do get a discount if you're a therapy partner member or you listen to this podcast. So please let them know when you join and pick up your directory listing. We really enjoy working with Good Therapy. We think that they do great work. They're making a vast impact in the community really helping the public to find the right clinicians and the clinicians that Kate and Katie help you to brand your business, put up a profile directory listing that actually works. You know, it's these products that work in conjunction with one another. Today we all talked about partnership and I really think it's partnering and working together using all the resources that are available to private practitioners these days to really level up your practice. So I want to thank everybody again for listening. I AM your host, Dr. Jessica Dolgan. Love youe Practice is a podcast dedicated to improving the quality of life for private practice clinicians by providing you all with this community, inspiration, wisdom and business of practice education. We always want to remind people that Love youe Practice is powered by Therapy Partner, which is a practice management technology designed specifically for clinicians in private practice with the explicit aim of streamlining the business side of your business. You can visit therapypartner.com at any time to explore the unique practice management technology, pick up a 60 day free trial and explore all of our Love youe Practice educational content which is always free to Therapy Partner members. That includes webinars, podcasts, practice building strategies, a blog, and more. So Kate and Katie, thank you again for coming. I really look forward to connecting with you soon and wish you the very best in the rest of Q1 of 2018 here.

Dr. Kate Campbell (63:44)

Thank you so much Esther. So much fun. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more. Sam.