C (2:38)

Yeah, we cancel and we can do video sessions if our clients want that. So I know today the few therapists that are in my office canceled. The clients ended up canceling. I don't know if the therapists would have canceled last minute or not, but we were preparing. We've known about this now for the past couple of days. So clients were already saying, let's hold off a few days ago. Yeah.

A (3:04)

And that's where you got a lot of the technology assisted counseling, being able to offer that as a resource when you are snowed in or something. Yeah, that happens.

C (3:12)

Yeah. The only worry is that the, that the snow messes with like the Internet and all of that. So as long as that keeps working. But hopefully by, I'm hoping that because Chicago knew this was coming, the people who are doing the streets and all that were prepared. We're not known to be very prepared. And even though they'll tell us that it's snowing two feet, they'll not have the people out there taking the snow out. And so we'll see how it works today. I haven't yet gone outside past my streets, so we'll see if it gets shoveled and all that.

B (3:50)

Gotcha.

A (3:51)

So we're sending some warm vibes your way.

C (3:54)

Thank you.

B (3:56)

So before we get into all of that, we wanted to welcome our first time listeners. If you're a first time listener, we're opening our arms and saying, welcome to Startup Nation family. We're so happy you're here. If you're a loyal listener, thank you for coming back. So last week we had the cool opportunity to talk with Jessica Richards, who is, well, she's now an lmhc, but she actually started in private practice as an intern. So we're going to be talking about her, her journey from intern to licensed mental health professional, and some of her tips and tricks and things to be mindful of on the way. And also if you are a new Startup Nation family member, we have a gift for you. Head over to PrivatePracticesStartup.com right there on the homepage, you will see Kate and I with a very nice beach scene, very different than snow. And right there, there is an opportunity to grab a copy of your A to Z cheat sheet, the essentials for building and growing your dream practice. And of course we're in Facebook. Who else is not in Facebook? You can always join our group there and hang out with us as well. So another thing, our sponsor today is the private practice startup. So our sponsor today is our paperwork. So Kate and I have worked over a decade creating paperwork that is ethical, competent, legal, so you can avoid legal issues and really continue to do the work that you love. We have our paperwork in a la carte, as well as package items. And you can also try out our paperwork. You can test drive our HIPAA form for free. So head to privatepracticestartup.com and head over to the shop tab. There you will find private practice paperwork. So without further ado, let's jump into Maureen's topic. And so Maureen has actually a very successful group practice. So her topic is the two pronged approach to group practice Marketing.

A (5:38)

Yes. I'm so excited to be here with this podcast with you and to have you on Maureen, because I also have a group practice down here in South Florida. And I'm so curious about your business model and how you have your group practice set up because I saw in your notes about your show today that you. They're actually employees at your practice. So they're not independent contractors, they're employees?

C (5:59)

Yes, I have 20 or so that are employees and they're all therapists. And then I have two independent contractors. One does medication management and one does psych testing. And so they have their own solo practices as well. And they just come in, do med management or psych testing and then sort of go back to their own practice. But all the employees are the therapists in my practice.

A (6:28)

That's fantastic. 20. Wow. And a couple independent contractors too. So are they full time employees or some part time or mix?

C (6:37)

Most of them are full time. I'd say probably about 13 or 14 are working at least 20 hours. And then the minimum that I require to work in my practice is 15 hours. So anyone who's part time is working at least 15 hours. Wow.

A (6:53)

That's awesome. Yes. You have built an empire. That's a good.

B (6:55)

Yes. That's amazing. Right?

A (6:57)

So what inspired you to build a group practice and to go with a particular business model that you went with?

C (7:04)

I sort of was winging it. It was not in the plans. When I first started, I had worked at a group practice and it was really far away from my house, a little over an hour. So I didn't like the commute, but I also wanted to be able to be creative in how I did my work and just the decoration and all that. So I decided to start solo. And then about six months later, I hired my first person. So I was only solo for about six months before I brought someone in. And like I said, it was six years ago. So it was before there were Facebook groups to kind of help you start and scale your practice. So I kind of was winging it and didn't really fully think it through. And it wasn't until about six months after I had hired my first person, who essentially just worked the days that I wasn't there. So we never even saw each other. Chicago had a small business plan or small business business plan competition through the Department of Treasury, and I did that, and that was what made me put a business plan together. And that's kind of how I figured out that going the route of having some more people and having this, like, family style collaborative space was what I wanted. So that's when I went in that direction and started hiring more people.

A (8:25)

That's awesome. Yeah, Very cool.

B (8:27)

What are. What were some of the considerations you needed to make and some of the things that you've learned along the way in regards to having employees a group practice?

C (8:35)

I mean, I first, I think the biggest thing was the whole independent contractor and employee thing. I started out having independent contractors, and it wasn't until I had maybe four or five therapists. So maybe a year into being a group practice that I realized my. The structure that I really wanted for my group and the feel that I wanted was meant that I needed to have employees. So that was a fun journey to figure out how to make that change. Especially when I didn't have any friends or people that I knew that had group practices. So I had to sort of figure it out on my own. I think that was the biggest initial challenge. And then on top of that was just putting together an employee manual and my policies and procedures and all that fun stuff, which we have in our heads when we're solo practitioners. But we can also kind of wave things and say, nah, don't worry about it this time, because there's no one else there gonna get mad at you.

A (9:33)

Right.

C (9:34)

But it gets a little more difficult the more therapists. You have to have all these different ways of doing. Doing something. And so I think the other thing was, you know, putting that together and the time it took to process why we do it this way versus that way, because we all have different ways of doing Things and just making everything streamlined was probably the next biggest thing that I had to work on.

A (9:59)

I'm so curious about that process of transitioning your independent contractors to employees. Can you talk a little bit about how you approached that and just what that was like?

C (10:11)

Yeah, so I was really nervous, obviously, just because there's this idea that as an independent contractor you have all this freedom and that if you switch them to employees that they feel like they're freedoms are being taken away in that sense of how they do their work and stuff. So luckily in my case, I really didn't want to be this micromanaging person. So a lot of what they were doing wasn't going to change anyways. But I had decided when I was looking at, you know, the structure of the way they are as independent contractors, really needing to do the work on their own, not getting supervision, you know, paying for their own supplies, all of that kind of stuff, I realized that, you know, one of the things that I wanted to do with having employees was to be able to offer incentives and to be able to have, you know, supervision if needed, someone to bounce ideas off of. And so I kind of pitched it in that sort of way was, you know, I am needing to make this switch to employee status because the way that envision running my business, it won't connect with having independent contractors. This is what I see the future looking like. This is my plan in terms of incentives. And I said, you know, there are certain things that as an independent contractor, one, you guys are all supposed to be working in your own private practices or contracting your work out to other group practices. And at the time I had known that a couple of them were, you know, stay at home moms who just wanted to work, you know, 15 hours in private practice but weren't working anywhere else. So in that sense, we weren't running by the IRS definition anyways. And so aside from that, I had said I want to be able to offer retirement plans and bonuses and incentives and things that I can't do if you're independent contractors. And so luckily that, on top of the fact that we were very Emily Feelish anyways, really a good set of personalities, everyone was on board with it and thought that makes total sense.

B (12:13)

Yeah. You know, and I was wondering that question myself in regards to independent contractor versus employees. And Kate and I, not only do we have our private practice paperwork, but we have some business paperwork and we've done a lot of research in regards to employee versus independent contractor. You know, we get a lot of questions about that, like, people usually think like, oh, I'll just hire independent contractors. But, you know, there's certain stipulations and things that you. An independent contractor would have to meet versus an employee and that you had mentioned about the irs, right. And so one thing is if you hire someone as an independent contractor, but they're really in employee, you can be fined by the irs. So it's really important that people even listening to this podcast and you're thinking about having group practice or independent contractors is really get that information. We actually got ahold of a really great document that goes state by state and talks a little bit more about the laws. And so, you know, if you're in that, you know, in that boat or whatever and you want that document, just email us. We're happy to send that out to you, but definitely talk to an accountant, you know, business attorney. Those. Those types of people will always be really supportive in helping you guys really create the practice of your dream. So that's super cool. I mean, I could probably jump in and continue to talk about all these little pieces because we're so curious, but I know. And another question is, like, how have you marketed it? How have you been able to keep so many therapists full?

C (13:28)

I think I always like to say that it's almost like a snowball effect. The more therapists that I have, the easier it is to step back on some of the marketing that I do, because we just become a little bit more visible in the community the larger we get. So when it was just myself and one other therapist, we were getting, you know, a couple of referrals a week. Now we're a little over 100amonth. And it just. And we. I never did any more work than I was doing when I first started. And so it just kind of organically, I feel like happens the more people that you hire, especially if you hire, you're hiring good people, is that you just become more visible in the community and you have a higher likelihood of people calling your place over someone else, you know.

B (14:17)

So what has been your approach to marketing the practice?

C (14:19)

Yeah, I feel like there's a difference between how you market when you're solo versus how to market as a group practice owner. One of the biggest issues that group practice owners say, especially when they first start, is that and they have one or two clinicians working for them, is that people call and want to see them have a hard time being transferred over to another therapist in their practice, and they really just want to see the owner of the group or the individual clinician. And so one of the things that I found to be really useful is looking at it from a sort of two pronged approach, one being direct and one being indirect marketing. And so when you become a group practice, when you're solo, I should start when you're solo. When you're solo, you're doing both. You're doing the face to face marketing, which is that direct marketing, meeting with other therapists in the community or primary care physicians or chiropractors or whatever wellness providers would potentially have your clients. But you're also doing that indirect marketing, which is the SEO, the blogging, the Facebook, having social media accounts. You're doing it's because it's all going to you. But when you're a group practice owner, doing it all actually kind of goes against you because you'll continue to get people who want to come and see you. And so I found that splitting that direct and indirect marketing so that face to face versus that back end, non face to face marketing is really sort of important in our, you know, being a group practice owner. And so my suggestion is, and what I found to see to work is that the direct face to face marketing should fall more. Not saying that you should get rid of it completely as a group practice owner, but should fall more on the clinicians. I use the example I have a CADC in my practice, so a certified drug and alcohol counselor. I don't work with that population and I don't even know how to explain what she does other than she works with people in addictions. And so I like to use that as an example of if I went to a residential rehab facility nearby and tried to talk to them about this great therapist that I have who's a cadc, she likes working with them. I don't exactly know what she does with them, but she loves working with them. It's less likely that that rehab facility is going to refer people versus if she was to go and show how passionate she is and say I'm a cadc, this is what I like to do. This is how I work with clients who have this sort of addiction. This is how I work with this population. She's more likely to get those referrals. And so as a group practice owner, teaching your and coaching your clinicians to be able to market themselves. So that one, I like to look at it as, you know, I have a brand, my group practice, but I also want my clinicians to be their own sort of mini brand in a way. It's not all about Them being invisible and it's just my practice and trying to fill them up. I want them to also be known as the go to person for drug and alcohol counseling or the go to person for trauma work, whatever that is. And so getting that direct face to face marketing more in the hands of the clinicians helps bring clients over. And we see this when my. Each month we have a goal of going and doing one speaking engagement in the community. So once a month we have one place that we go to and one of our clinicians does it. And I find that every time they go out and do that speaking engagement, they're getting handful of referrals within a day or two afterwards because they saw that person. If I was the one doing all of that, they would just be like, I saw Maureen and she's the owner of Urban Wellness. And you know, I really want my son to see her. I don't see kids. They'll still, they'll still try to come see me, you know, and so that's kind of where I go with that direct face to face marketing. That doesn't mean that us as group practice owners don't need to do that. I find that networking is really important as a group practice, but you're then able to market your brand more than yourself individually. That's the first prong.

B (18:23)

That's amazing. Where did you get all your business sense from?

C (18:26)

Like, I don't. My husband was talking to me about this yesterday. He's like, so, you know, you should write a book about how you don't even need to go to college to be an entrepreneur. And I was like, I was actually thinking I should go back and get my MBA just for the hell of it, because it'd be, you know, I'm doing it, why not? And he's like, I don't know what? Like, I'm sure there's something you'd learn about it, but you're kind of figuring it out on your own. I don't know, it's just trial and error. And then thinking about why is this working? Like, I don't, you know, and then I just was sitting there thinking like, what am I doing that is making this work? Or what am I not doing that is making this work? I don't know. And I kind of figured this out that with, at least with the marketing piece that when I moved, shifted to having the clinicians do more of that face to face marketing and for me to stop doing that, that clients were calling specifically asking for, you know, one therapist or another, which is ideal. In my case, I really would love for people not to call and say, I'll see anyone who's open. I'd much prefer that they say, you have a therapist. Andrea. I wanted to see her.

B (19:28)

Yeah, I love it. And I just love the fact also that you're teaching clinicians such amazing skills that if they want to go open their own private practice eventually down the road that they know what to do, like that's just invaluable. I love, I appreciate what you've done definitely for our field and those that you touch. I think it's awesome. So awesome.

C (19:47)

Well, thank you. Yeah.

B (19:48)

So what's the second prong?

C (19:49)

Second prong is indirect. So that's all that back end sort of marketing. It's usually the digital, digital marketing, even though we sometimes still do some print marketing. But that can be anything from blogging doing, you know, maintaining your website, making sure that it looks good is easy to navigate. As a group practice, it's a little more difficult to get all of the stuff in there. And in a way that is easy to navigate, it's a little bit easier when you're solo because it's just all of the pages are about you. SEO advertising, whether it's print or, you know, Google AdWords or Facebook ads, social media. If you are on social media as a business, just content creation and making sure that you're maintaining that E courses or ebooks, I mean the list kind of goes on in terms of what you can do as a group practice in terms of that back end marketing. But this is where you as a group practice owner can shine in that sense because you're not really the face of it then they don't see what you're doing and so they're not necessarily going to come out and want to see you just because you're doing that indirect marketing. And so with that it's less of the clinicians work and more of more of my work or your work as a group practice owner. When I think of this though, because there's so many things that you can do, I always like to tell people to just start with one because there's literally you can try to maintain like update your website, get SEO up to date, do Google AdWords and Facebook ads and set up all these social media accounts and you'll just really be overwhelmed. And so I like to say to start with what the one piece that doesn't seem overwhelming to you or seems like the least overwhelming to you and to start with that and kind of go from there so that's my second prong is the indirect, which guess I can, can really, you can really go deep with it.

B (21:42)

And I love that you say like start with one. I remember, you know, early on it was kind of like running after all the shiny objects. Oh, LinkedIn. What should I do with that? I'll do. Okay, post things. Okay, great. I don't, I'm not getting any clients. What should I do with this? Okay, you know what I mean? It was just like, as I hear you talking about, I'm just remembering my exhaustion during those times.

A (21:58)

Yeah, it's really important to have a strategy for sure and not over because there are a lot of shiny objects out there.

C (22:04)

And the other thing with that, indirect, with any form of indirect marketing, it's almost like a long haul game. Nothing you do is gonna give you immediate roi. And so a lot of people will blog for a month and then be like, you know, no one's called and said that they, that they've found me because of my blog. And so then they'll fall off with the blogging and just do it once a month or every couple months or with social media. They'll put, they'll set up a Facebook account and then put some inspirational quotes up every once in a while, but then be like, no client is calling because of that. Social media is a whole nother game. There's a big strategy when it comes. You need to be posting several times a day and different types of content, which is why using a social media manager, like Meet Edgar is what I use, or Hootsuit. But it all becomes a little bit more complicated. So that's why starting with one thing is really important because you have to do that one thing pretty intensely for it to start to have that roi.

A (23:02)

Yeah, I was gonna ask you, what are some of the systems that you've put into place to support such a big group practice?

C (23:10)

So we do blogs. And with the blogs, although it's the indirect side, my clinicians actually do them. And so I have a bonus system in place every six months. They can get a bonus if they blog twice. And because there's 20 of them, if all 20 of them blog twice, that's 40 blogs in a six month period. Some of them don't do it because they don't want the bonus and that's totally fine. But for the most part, we get enough blogs to last us once a week throughout the whole year because I have that bonus system. And what I like about that is it's another touch point for the Client who potentially wants to call to be able to hear the voice of voice, so to speak, of their ideal therapist. So if they look at any one of our therapists bios and reads it, but wants to know a little bit more about them and like how they do their work, if they go over to our blog page where they have tags by each therapist name, they can click on that therapist and read all the blogs. And my clinicians all write blogs specific to their ideal client. So our clinicians are pretty niched down. And so if they work with addictions, all their blogs are related to addictions. If another person's niche is working with kids, they do all kid related blog blogs. So that's the blog end. Everything else is more on my end. And so I do have a Google AdWords person. So I used to do it myself. It was really hard. It's not something that I suggest trying to figure out yourself, but when you have the funds it might be useful to try, try things like this out Facebook ads or Google AdWords. The one thing I do want to suggest with it is that you have some sort of metric system so that you can see if it's a good investment or not. Because a lot of people will, you know, do these things but then not have some sort of way of tracking the metrics of what they're doing. And so you know, for me I have a, we have a system with our receptionist who makes sure to check how people were found and, or how they found us. And then we also have things on, on our website that kind of like we have Pixel Me which if anyone clicks on the links it tells us where they came from. I mean you can get pretty complicated with it. But that's, you know, the route we sort of went so that we could figure out, you know, how people, what things. People are using Facebook or Google Ads or whatnot to find us. And that lets me know if something doesn't give us a lot of return on investment, we stop using it. It's not about trying to do all of them, it's you know, picking a handful of things. So for us it's our social media Facebook page. We have a Facebook page that posts two to three times a day and we use Meet Edgar for that. So it automatically recycles content. We have, I have a Facebook ads manager. So a girl that does all my Facebook ads and she does all this ab testing which I don't know if you guys, I'm assuming you guys know about that, but.

A (26:04)

All the way to Z, right?

C (26:06)

I Know, sometimes when I look on my Facebook I have like seven of the same ad with just a little bit of different text on there. And so that's another thing to think about if you are doing any sort of social media ads, whether it's on Facebook or on Google AdWords, for it to really be successful. Because you might think your ad is really good, but that doesn't mean that other people think it is, is doing things like this, A B testing, which just takes a lot of work and figuring out which image is the one that people like to look at most. Which first sentence do people prefer? And so that's the kind of the work that I do with my social media people and the virtual assistants I have that kind of help me with that.

B (26:45)

Awesome. I mean there's so much for days.

A (26:48)

About all of this. We really could. And I mean it's just, it's so cool to hear your perspective and the unique aspects about your group and then how you have learned so much just through your experience. Which is very similar to what we've done as well. Just learning along the way. And it's a great tool to be able to do that. Which is why we're so passionate about making sure everybody else doesn't have to learn the hard way too. Right. That's what inspires you in helping other group practitioners or practitioners who want to launch a group practice to know how to do that without having to learn for years and years and years the hard way.

C (27:21)

Right, right, exactly.

A (27:23)

Out of curiosity, do you have, are you an insurance based or a hybrid or self pay?

C (27:29)

What's the name? Yeah, we're a hybrid. We started off in Chicago. It's pretty much impossible to be full fee completely. We're also pretty lucky that we have at least Blue Cross that pays pretty much the same rate as what a typical full fee person in our state would, would charge. So we're kind of lucky in that sense. But that's another thing I see this a lot on the on Facebook is that people don't realize that they can request increases with insurance companies and that's been like the staple of my job as the business owners. Every year I request increases. So the gap between where we've cut down a lot of the lower paying insurances and are in with just three insurances now and they all pay within dollars literally of our full fee.

A (28:17)

I'm so curious, what is Blue Cross pay up there?

C (28:21)

We're not allowed to say.

A (28:23)

Oh, you're not allowed to say? No, we've never taken insurance.

C (28:28)

Okay. There you go.

B (28:29)

That's the contract.

C (28:30)

It's against the contract. You can go on my website and see what my full fee is. It's 140. And just, you know, a few dollars.

A (28:43)

That's the loophole, King.

C (28:46)

That's funny.

A (28:47)

I'm sure you're like on the edge of their seats. Like, did you just ask that? Yes, I did.

C (28:52)

I mean, you can kind of guess from what I just said with your. You're within a few dollars of that. But yeah, I don't know. They have it in the contracts that we're not allowed to disclose rates.

B (29:02)

Yeah, but that's what happens when you start your practice. Absolutely no insurance. Yeah, you just hand it over. That's why we ask all our credentialing and billing specialists the insurance questions that we don't know.

C (29:13)

That's funny. Yeah.

B (29:14)

Maureen, what do you most want people to take away from your message today?

C (29:19)

Well, I guess because we're talking about marketing is that one, you don't have to do it all and please don't try to do it all. And two is to have some sort of system or metric in place so that you're not flailing around doing all these different things or doing something for way too long. You know, there's people that use Psychology Today. For me, Psychology Today in our area is the number one ranked page if you do a therapist search. So for Chicago, it's super useful. But I know there's geographic areas where Psychology Today brings in them in like one client a year. And people continuously are, you know, stay on there, even though it doesn't backlink, so it doesn't actually improve your, you know, ranking on Google or anything. And. And so they stand there paying $30 a month for years, even though they're getting one client, which I don't think is that great of a roi, and so is really just. The second piece is having some sort of metric where you know, how to track the calls that are coming in and where they're coming in from and you know, which methods that you're using for marketing are actually paying off and not. And to cut those ones off that aren't helping and to put more money into the ones that are.

B (30:32)

Absolutely. And that's one. A great piece of advice my business coach gave me. He said you cannot change that which you do not measure. Right. So. And that's what you're saying is really looking at the numbers. And I know sometimes, you know, therapists, like, we're more touchy feely, nurturing people and some of us like really don't like numbers.

A (30:48)

Right.

B (30:48)

But it's so important to know where to put that money and also spend your time like you said, with the presentations, the speaking that has a great ROI and it sounds like it's a no brainer. It's simple to do. Your clinicians are talking about a subject that they know ridiculous amounts of information on and really enjoy it. So I love everything you shared. Maureen, do you actually help? Do you like coach people who are looking to go.

C (31:11)

Yes, yes.

B (31:12)

Can you share a little bit about that?

C (31:14)

Yeah. So I have at the group practice exchange, I have various ways of being able to help people start or scale their practice, their group practice and one is with one on one coaching. I have some package, a monthly and a three month package. I have Mastermind groups which they just started. They're six months long, they started in January so I won't be doing another one until beginning of July when my current ones end. But I have one that is for is called first year CEO Mastermind. So it's for people in their first year. And then I have a scale, your group Mastermind, which is for people that established and have at least three employees or independent contractors. And I've been a group practice owner for at least two years and then I have E courses. So if you prefer to do something self paced that is on your own. I have the ultimate group practice startup masterclass which is on my website as well and that is really self paced. It's eight or so hours of me talking. I mean nicely packaged into smaller amounts but it does everything relating to startup. So if you're new to group practice and wanting to hire and you prefer not to, you know, spend the money on the one on one coaching, then the masterclass is really helpful.

B (32:27)

Awesome. And that's all at your website, the Group Practice Exchange. Right. So if you're listening to this podcast and you're thinking about group practice or you're in the that state, Maureen is a definite great contact and of course Kate too. Kate is kind of more of the. Everyone here is their own business. That's kind of your model.

A (32:43)

Yeah, my business model. I have independent contractors and so everyone at my practice, I've got 13 clinicians, actually a registered dietitian joining us and a new clinician. So it'll be 15 this month and everybody is their own independent private practice and they rent space from me at my office. So that's how I have it. So basically it's by the hour. So they rent space by the hour? Yeah. Cool. When I started it off, yeah, when I started it off, I just wanted to really have keep it super clean and lower risk and I launched it like seven years ago.

C (33:19)

@ this point, the way you're doing it is the best way. I mean, in terms of having independent contractors, it's hands down is having like that subleasing sort of contract is the best way you can go to really truly have independent contractors. So that's awesome.

A (33:34)

Yeah, yeah. So it's been working well. I launched it about seven years ago and love it. And yeah, it's a lot of fun. So I'm sure we could talk for days about this stuff. But we've so appreciated you being on with us today and I know we'll be connecting again in the future. So make sure to check out the show notes for all of the resources and tips that we shared today and we'll have links on there as well. And we always appreciate when you guys subscribe, rate and review our show because we really love to be able to make a difference and share all of the stuff that we had to learn the hard way. All of these resources for practice building tips, tricks and hacks. Right. And so when you guys subscribe, rate and review, it actually helps us to broaden our reach, making a difference in more clinicians lives.

B (34:18)

And next week you want to join us for Samantha Drazen's podcast. So Samantha has a really cool. I don't know, she started out as an intern and you know, a lot of times we are inspired by an issue that we see and a gap that we want to fill. And so as an intern, she really didn't know where to start her private practice. So she's created this really cool space called Co Space. K H O space or co community I think she calls it. And so she's going to be talking to us about her journey across how that happened and how that translated into what she created today to really support, really an intern or unlicensed person wanting to go into private practice to provide all of their needs and a licensed person that might just be getting into the startup phase. So you'll want to join us for that. And she's actually here in South Florida. So if any of you guys are in South Florida and are looking for that opportunity, that might be a great opportunity for you. So Startup Nation, have a fantastic morning, day, evening, weekend, whenever you're listening to us. It was a pleasure to have Maureen on and thank you much, so, so much for allowing us to continue to inspire you from startup to mastery Have a great day.

A (35:18)

See you next time. Thanks for joining us on the Private Practice Startup. Visit the private practices startup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.

C (35:39)

Sam.