B (2:22)

So anyways, without further ado, so Samantha Drazen, LMHC is going to be talking to us about cospace, a unique way to start and build your private practice. But before we do that, if you are a first time listener, we want to say welcome. You are officially part of our startup nation family and we have a cool gift for you. Head over to PrivatePracticesStartup.com, you'll see our smiling faces and the lovely water behind us. Not rubbing it in. If any of you are in the very winter cold listening to this, but right there, right on our homepage, you'll see a button to grab your A to Z cheat sheet. The essentials for building and growing a dream practice. And as I say that, I'm thinking like, wow, we're going to be talking about starting up private practice today. And so not only do you want to listen to this entire practice, you want to grab that A to Z cheat sheet because there's full of ninja tips and lots of value bombs in there. And where else can you find us?

A (3:12)

Facebook, of course.

B (3:13)

Look for the private practice startup Facebook group Ask to be approved and we'll hang out with you guys there. We are very active in the group as well, so feel free to ask the community question question. There's so many great folks in there wanting to help and support you guys through your private practice journey. So last week we had the opportunity to talk with as Kate called her after the podcast, a gangster. She.

A (3:36)

Yes.

B (3:37)

Is that because she's in Chicago?

A (3:38)

Yeah. You know what I was gonna say that's some gangstershit on the podcast last.

B (3:43)

Time, but I was like maybe I.

A (3:44)

Shouldn'T cuss, but whatever. You guys heard it. Yes, she is t totally gangster. A business beast.

B (3:49)

Serene Warback and her empire. She talked about a two pronged approach to marketing a group practice. So not only does she have her one spot, but she has two spots. And we talked somewhat about the intricacies, but more about the marketing approach that's worked for her. The really cool thing is she does offer coaching for people wanting to start a group practice, so. Oh, sponsorship, sponsor.

A (4:13)

Yes. Today is so much fun to talk about. I know. So much to talk about, so much fun. So today's sponsor is actually the private practice startup attorney approved private practice paperwork. So knowing that you want to make a difference in the world and want to continue to do that and avoid legal risk, you need to have your attorney approved private practice paperwork that meets all of the legal and ethical standards of our profession. The paperwork that we offered has been reviewed by many attorneys. Took us actually 10 years to perfect and it meets the highest standard and pretty much awesome. So check it out over at the private practice startup and visit privatepracticestartup.com and you'll see under our shop tab you can choose our a la carte paperwork. We've got 26 plus forms there for you if you want to cherry pick the best or if you want to save money and get the comprehensive packages we offer, you can check those out there as well.

B (5:08)

Awesome.

A (5:09)

Don't forget our free HIPAA form. Yes, that's on there as well. So if you guys want to test drive the paperwork, you can totally check that out for free as well.

B (5:16)

Fantastic. So Samantha, so we're talking about cospace. So you actually you had emailed me right initially and wanting to kind of pick my brain and then we had a zoom call, which we always do because it's always great to meet online and you're here in person. So share with us what led you into the business that you're in now.

C (5:34)

So cospace has been kind of on the back burner for a long time now. When I first graduated with my lmhc, I was a registered intern, as most of us are, or some postdocs out there who's ever listening. And at the same time that was happening, I was trying to find an office space that I could see private clients for my agency work when they graduated, when they graduated, when they discharged from residential and they wanted to see me privately. It was an honor and I wanted to continue seeing them, but I didn't have an office. I had interviewed with a few therapists around the area for an hourly kind of rental or certain hours per week rental and it just didn't fit. The office wasn't quite right for me. I thought it was very expensive and cost prohibitive for somebody new who had at best three private paying clients that were not reliable. So to have to pay such a high rent at the same time my father in law was pursuing opening kind of like a coworking space but for beauty professionals and wellness and wanted to have therapists maybe to help me, I don't know in the office with people like doing eyelash extensions and doing your hair. And I was like, no, that is not appropriate. I don't like that at all. My father in law is amazing, but he's from the uk. I don't think he really understood the laws and ethics that we have to abide by. So I was just not happy with that at all. And I said, no, thank you. Anyway, I was persistent and I was loyal to my belief that therapists should not work in the same or next door to an office where your hair is being done all under the, you know, title of one company or office space. And slowly the beauty salon suites idea fizzled out and co space was built up. So I would just say that a lot of loyalty, a lot of my own experience trying to find space. You're charging. Sorry, I'm far away. You're charging, you know, low rates when you're first starting out, you're not that confident to charge that high price tag. The price tag of the office space hourly is sometimes high. So I wanted to create a space that lowered the barrier to entry for new clinicians or people expanding or kind of in a transition. You know, maybe you had a baby or a family situation and your caseload dropped or growing or even if you.

B (8:06)

Moved, like from a state, maybe you were really established somewhere and now you come to South Florida, where we're heavily populated and you're not really sure where to start out.

C (8:13)

Absolutely. So cospace is my passion right now. I want us to become what we work is to entrepreneurs. I want cospace to be that for mental health professionals and helping professionals. I think it's really cool that we're trying to develop a space that's safe and secure and affordable because, you know, we can't just go to a wework and sit at a desk and have a session. And I can't really meet you at a Starbucks and have a session. So, you know, we're kind of bound by those laws and ethics, and we need a place where we can do that affordably.

B (8:48)

And so the word ko, so it's K H o has like, a specific meaning. What does that mean?

C (8:54)

Ko means in an Asian dialect. Hmong specifically means to heal, to recover, or to put back into working order. So I thought it was really kind of a great name. Co space, co working kind of embodies what we do as a profession, and we have the community, which I think creates a healing and bonding experience just among the clinicians there also. So we're fostering autonomy in your own private practice. I don't really want to know anything what you're doing. It's just the space that you're renting at a flat rate per. But we're also there to be a community and to help each other.

B (9:35)

Awesome.

C (9:35)

That's what code is.

B (9:36)

Share with us something that you've had to overcome, either personally or professionally, to get you where you are today.

C (9:44)

Where I am today? With cospace or in general?

B (9:46)

Either. Or either, like, in our field or with cospace. I know you had to get over the hair stuff.

C (9:52)

Yeah. We had to get past those salon sweeps because that was not gonna work.

B (9:55)

Now I could totally see, though, if it's like this whole transformative from the inside. Right. Like, helping people. Like, I could see that working. I'm all about super creative niches, and.

A (10:07)

Hairstylists are often therapists.

C (10:10)

That is true. I say to my hairstylist that we do the same thing. You're just working while you're doing it. And I'm a bit stiller. But I would say that the biggest obstacle is fear of failure. I had one experience with a mentor of mine who I really respected, and I would tell her all of these things, and I. And I was really excited about cospace, and of course, I shared it and I got a little bit of doubt, which of course made my inner critic very happy to start talking to me, because it came from someone whom I really respected and who was in the field. But I really had to learn to quiet that. And I said, okay, what is reality? Reality is. That's one person's perspective. And everyone else who I talk to says what a great idea it is. There's a need for it. I needed it. And I'm, you know, in the field, so there has to be other people like me who need this space.

A (11:06)

There's definitely a need for it. When I first started out as a registered intern, I was renting space in someone's private practice. And it was. It was expensive, you know, I was paying over $500 a month. I had no clients starting out. I had this naive belief, which we called the field of dreams mentality, that if I build it, they will come. And that's not how it works out. I learned the hard way, you know, and when you start out and you don't have that clientele base already built up, it takes time to build your practice. And if you can keep your overhead cost lower, then you can invest more in marketing and really, outlets that are going to have a greater roi. So it's awesome that you're offering a space like that, and you're also offering it to registered interns. And here in the state of Florida, registered interns have to have a licensed clinician on site when they're seeing clients. So how do you work that into cospace?

C (12:00)

So I will be having my private Practice at cospace. And I'm a licensed clinician. So this way registered interns can see people. That was also a problem that I had actually. Okay. I had this handful of patients that wanted to now see me. They were done with IOP and residential treatment. And even if I found an office space, too expensive, hemorrhaging money, no licensed clinician. So I'm trying to solve all of these problems. So here's a flat rate. You have one client, one hour of time that you pay for, not the 500. I mean my experience, the person wanted I think $400 a month plus a 6040 split, which was just really outrageous.

B (12:43)

Yeah, about that. So one of the things that we teach is medical errors and ethics and we're just going to share this because I think it's important. So. And again, it's, you know, when we get into business, number one, most of us have no business, business sense at all, right?

C (12:57)

And so we're emotions, we do emotions.

B (12:59)

We don't do well, but we kind of do what everyone else is doing. And so what's interesting is ethically, so this is a really interesting ethic issue, right? Is that when someone is renting space, they should either be renting space at a flat rate or doing the split, not both. Because what happens is it could be seen as a kickback, rebate or bonus, right? Because that money needs to be going towards marketing or rent, right? And so when you're doing rent and the split, then why is that? So I'm hoping you guys are definitely listening to this aspect and just empowering yourselves as you're looking for space or things like that. Is it should be that flat rate or a fee split, but not both. And we don't know better, right? And also probably the people who are saying, well, this is what John down the street and whoever else is doing, and so they do the same thing, right? And so I'm not saying it's a fault of anybody's, but once we know we really want to empower people too. Because also too like if you're renting and you're doing a service like what do you walk home with? 25 bucks?

C (13:57)

Well, that was the problem, right? And that's why I really feel that there was a need because, you know, entrepreneurs and business people, men and women, can go to a place like WeWork or Burrow or one of, you know, the hundreds, you name it, of co working places. And I wasn't able to do that. Like I had mentioned earlier. And not that this clinician and A few other people that I spoke to that I didn't just drive with them and really like them, but as a from a business perspective, it just was not good fit, you know, so we need to really understand this and find places.

B (14:29)

Yeah. And next week, Kate and I are going to be doing a podcast specifically on how to start a private practice. Right. And so, you know, as I hear you talk, I don't. It's funny because when I like, remember things, I see myself visually somewhere. I don't know, I feel like I was looking at my refrigerator, having this conversation with someone about the zillion mistakes that I made in private practice. And one of those things, I know when I went to private practice, I got my own office. Right. And I said to myself, I said, what's the worst that could happen? I could spend $5,000 and nothing would happen. Like, okay, I'm okay with that. Right.

A (15:01)

And that was the time you couldn't breathe for two months, right?

B (15:05)

No, because I had started my private practice when I couldn't breathe. That was when I left my full time job. So I had started practicing.

A (15:12)

You started breathing again. That's good.

B (15:14)

But my space was awful. I don't even want to tell you guys. Maybe I'll save that for next week's podcast. Remind me to share that. But one of the things is, is a lot of times therapists, they have this kind of like, I got to pick a name, I got to incorporate, I got to get an office. And sometimes therapists are renting their own office. They have no clients coming in, they loan or they finance their furniture. Like, don't do that. Please don't do that.

A (15:39)

Unless a brand they like. Yeah, there's just so much.

B (15:42)

I mean, unless you have like wealth and this is just what you want to do and you're okay with that. Most often that's not. Not it. And a lot of times in business is you're going to have to invest a lot of time and money without the return on less time and more money. So I love the idea of co space, the renting by the hour, the co community.

C (16:00)

And we've done all that for you. Right. Like, we have beautiful furniture, it's sensitively designed, all the rooms are soundproof. We're investing that money for you so that you can come to a place, feel really good. I hate to use the term fake it till you make it, but you know, you come and you walk into a beautiful office, you feel like a therapist and you act like a therapist.

B (16:19)

Yeah.

C (16:20)

Or you go into this little office that you think you can afford and there's no windows and you're like, oh, am I worth what I'm charging? Or, you know, because we're human too, and we have all of our self doubts, you know, that everyone else walks in.

A (16:31)

I have. Yeah. I was talking to a clinician the other day and another therapist, and she was telling me about how this office that she's renting space at just recently relocated to a new place. And basically they've put her in the closet. Literally, that's where she sees her clients, is in the closet. And, you know, she's a doctorate level clinician and she's, you know, trying to charge what she's worth for her services, but yet she's in a closet, you know, and that's.

B (16:57)

Is she in the closet?

A (16:59)

She's literally in the closet.

B (17:00)

Yes. I guess that would be okay for online counseling.

A (17:04)

Yeah.

C (17:05)

I feel her pain. When I was doing agency work, I was also in a tiny little room with no windows. And I used to feel the same way as well. And I. Right before I had left that job, I had a patient. And it was just the most cathartic moment because she started laughing and she said something about the office having no windows and other clinicians, you know, have windows and the patients go in there. And we had a really good therapeutic relationship that had been going on for several months at that point. But we just. I was really trying to be professional and not laugh, but she just start. She lost it and she just said everything that I had ever thought and we just laughed and it was really a great moment. But I feel her pain in the clock.

A (17:46)

You know, she's gonna be transitioning on from that office. Yeah, I'm sure.

B (17:51)

So one of the thoughts I have, Samantha, maybe you can kind of give people some ideas. So obviously you're here in South Florida and the majority of our listeners are not here in South Florida, even though we have a large following in Florida. So for those people not here, what suggestions can you give to either interns or unlicensed professionals and. Or people starting a private practice? Like, what should they look for? What should they negotiate? What should they ask of the person that might be renting from? What. What things do they want included? Share with us a little bit about your thoughts on that.

A (18:23)

Lots of questions throwing your question.

C (18:25)

Let me think about it.

B (18:26)

I do Rapid Fire 4, and they're like really deep. And I was like, Katie, let me start with one.

C (18:31)

Let me think about that. So what should you look for if you are trying to negotiate for an office, which, again, is not our strongest suit. Right. As a therapist, we're not. We don't have an mba. Some of us, maybe, I would say, try to find someone who you feel comfortable with, who you don't think is going to take advantage of you. I think a lot of. I hate to say this, it sounds so negative, but I think for a lot of clinicians, if they're not using the space, they try to find like a passive income by renting out the office. And some of them are really doing it just to help the next one in line. So just find someone who you feel isn't taking advantage of you. Like I felt when I, you know, had this really good thing that turned out to not be so good when you got to the number part of it. Find someone whose office space is clean, comfortable, where you feel good about yourself so that you can help, you know, model that for your clients, where you're not going to feel like you're in a closet. And like Katie said, find a place where there's either a 60, 40 split or a flat rate rent because you're starting out and you have so many other things. We graduate and we think we're the greatest therapist that ever lived. And we're not. You know, we have a lot of growing and a lot of doing, and we have that whole business side that we feel lost. So it's amazing that we have something and people like you guys that are really putting it out there step by step, what we need to do.

B (19:59)

And even with splits, I would say 60, 40 is too much. I really would.

A (20:02)

I was gonna say the fee splitting, it's all negotiable. And maybe as you get more experience and maybe as your clientele increases, your caseload increases, then the fee split is negotiable. Because if it's just 60, 40, always, forever, it's very.

B (20:20)

But also, you want to know what's included in that. And I know a lot of times I think, like Kate said that feel the dreams mentality. They're like, oh, you know, I went to, you know, Susie Smith and she said I could rent space and she's going to give me clients. That's always like a little red flag for me. I'm like, how are they going to give you clients? How are they marketing? Do they already have a surplus? Like, are they your ideal clients? You know, so really talking about those things and really thinking about those things. Of course, it sounds great when someone says, oh, I'm going to give you 10 clients a week. Like, well, have you done that for others? Right. And being really clear on, well, what, you know, ask. You being the interviewer.

C (20:54)

Right.

B (20:55)

While you're getting interviewed, I guess, for the space and talking about those things. I know we did a great podcast with Michael Feuerman, who used to be a real estate attorney and now he's real estate. What was his title?

A (21:07)

Well, he's a real estate agent now who does commercial real estate. He's actually. Yes, my real estate agent. A real estate attorney. Yeah. Just emailing him with him yesterday. He's going to be helping us find new space, which I'm super excited about. Yeah.

B (21:23)

But I was actually thinking about that in the elevator as I was coming up the.

A (21:26)

Very slowly up my. Slow.

B (21:28)

While the elevator was bouncing. And I'm looking at the expiration and I'm like, how can they even improve this elevator?

A (21:33)

It's very slow and steady. As long as it gets to the destination. That's what matters most. I've been in this location here for like seven years. And then about two years ago, we. I mean, this is just a little side story, but I'll make it quick. We had new owners that came in and bought the building. And I don't have a clause in my lease, you know, helping me exit because the new owners of the building are absolutely horrific and it's created so many other additional problems for us. And I cannot wait till my lease ends and I am moving the heck out of here with a quickness.

B (22:03)

And we're getting a studio, you said?

A (22:05)

Yeah, we're having a media room recording.

C (22:08)

Not to cut you off, but I think that's another really important thing. Like, you know, you get so excited to have this space, and Katie's like, oh, you can have this office for four hours a week. But then what is your. What are the terms of that agreement? Because it's not really written down. You're very excited as a young clinician to have space. So make sure, protect yourself, ask questions, get everything in writing. I know exactly what's included. That I can use this space. For how long? What if I have it for four hours a week, and then all of a sudden I have six clients? Then what do I do with those two hours? And when can I use it? Do I have Internet? Are you gonna charge me for air conditioning or heating? Wherever you are and, you know, close.

B (22:50)

At a certain time. But I work later. Can I come in earlier? How do the clients get in? There's so much stuff that people really need to think about. That space. But I'm gonna put Michael Feuerman's podcast on our show notes page. And so he talked about, I think 10 different things on how to negotiate your lease. I think that's what the podcast was. So I'll put that on our show notes if you guys want. Super valuable as well.

A (23:10)

Yeah.

B (23:11)

So why don't you share with us? What does CoSpace all entail?

C (23:14)

So CO Space is a place for you to have an affordable, on demand, comfortable private practice. We have a standalone building in a beautiful area. There's floor to ceiling windows in all of the offices that of course are tinted from the outside for privacy, but you can see out. It's on a little lake with some fountains and some swans. It's very therapeutic.

B (23:37)

I think I'm getting relaxed.

C (23:41)

I know I couldn't do that.

A (23:44)

I would love to, but I'm booked.

C (23:47)

We'll invite you another, we'll invite you another time. Anyway, there's four offices that are just beautifully decorated. We really took the time and consideration to do that. Each office is a little bit different, but I think that they're set up to really encourage that therapeutic flow. Hopefully not too distracting looking outside. And we have a coffee bar that is free to you and to your clients. Everything is aid accessible. It's self locking with smart lock. So you come in with your phone, you exit. It's all on your schedule 24 7.

B (24:24)

Super high tech.

C (24:25)

Yeah, we're very high tech. Like I said, we work for the mental health community. I really hope. And it's affordable. So it's a flat rate. So Whether you charge $60 an hour or $200 an hour, our fee is the same. We're not, you know, we're just trying to give you a space that you feel comfortable, that you feel proud to bring in your patient. Yeah, beautiful, comfortable, flexible, on demand spaces. We have, I think, I believe we have a 12 hour cancellation policy. Even so standard is 24 hours cancellation with your clients. We give you 12 hours. We realize things happen. I mean, we're really here to support you, build up your practice and to feel good and to be able to kind of make a living. I mean, I think a lot of us go to school for so long and we're doing a very honorable profession and then, you know, it's really hard when we're starting out or even when we've been practicing for a long time and have trouble paying our bills.

B (25:20)

So to me that's not okay. You deserve. So just, we'll slow this down. Ready? You Deserve to be paid well. You work hard, you make a difference in people's lives. Our profession, yes, a lot of professions do great, amazing things, but we really work to help people make a difference in their life. So you deserve to be paid well and you definitely should not be in debt trying to like figure out how.

C (25:42)

To pay your bills.

B (25:42)

Exactly. I love that you created this opportunity for clinicians here in the South Florida area. And obviously we talked about some tips of things to look at for other clinicians in other areas. So that's awesome.

A (25:53)

What do you want to make sure our listeners take away from your message here today about cospace? That's a good question.

C (26:07)

Just believe in yourself, be passionate about your ideas, be loyal, don't let other people doubt you. If you get frustrated, don't give up. Don't think that because you can't find the right office for you at the time that you're just stuck in that very unfortunately low paying start out salary and agency work. Because you're not stuck. There's always an option, there's always availability. You have to look for it, you have to want it. And hopefully coast base will be coming to a city near you soon.

A (26:42)

Cool.

B (26:43)

What is your long term plan?

C (26:44)

Our long term plan is to really. We actually very excitingly have been talking to people around the country. Someone who's very involved in franchising very large franchises. I won't say at the moment, but you would know them if I said them and someone out in California. So we are hoping to expand across the country. That's awesome. Email me if you're interested in managing the location. But you know, we're going to start here in Florida and we definitely in the next three to five years want.

B (27:14)

To expand beyond Florida.

C (27:15)

That's fantastic.

B (27:16)

Fantastic. And so I'm assuming that it's cool if someone wants to email you or call you and stop by to check out the space.

C (27:23)

Absolutely.

B (27:24)

And I know that you have a giveaway. So you're offering one free hour for CoSpace if you decide to sign up by registering online. So it's cospace K H O space dot com. So Samantha, thanks so much for not only being with us on our podcast today, but actually being in office.

C (27:42)

And I'm really sorry to the audience by fumbling over my words as they.

B (27:46)

Said, don't be sorry, I'm tired.

C (27:51)

But this is all very exciting and thanks for having me.

B (27:54)

Our pleasure. So we hope you guys join us next week where Kate and I are going to be doing the podcast. We are the guests we are experts.

A (28:03)

For next week and interviewers. So this, the private practice startup will be talking all about startups, right?

B (28:08)

We're gonna be talking about how to, how to start a private practice and we are not going to be talking about how to choose your name first. So.

A (28:13)

So if you're in a place where.

B (28:14)

You'Re thinking, I gotta choose my name and incorporate, we are not talking about that. We will mention that and we'll discuss where that falls in the lineup. But that is definitely not the first thing. So you'll definitely want to join us. We're gonna be offering a ton, not only of tips, but resources and tools. So that show notes page is gonna be literally has like a bad value packed resources, links all over the place for your. I know, right?

A (28:40)

Like that was the only word. It's funny because when there's no good connotation with litter, when you podcast and.

B (28:47)

You like, you know, let out a word, you can't like take it back or change. It's not like the delete button.

A (28:52)

So we run with it, we joke about it. Yeah, it's, it's all good.

B (28:55)

So join us next week for that and Startup Nation. We had a blast today, as we do always. We are really looking forward to one o' clock where Ernesto comes in. That's going to be a webinar, so not another podcast.

A (29:07)

Yay is coming.

B (29:10)

So we will actually be creating a membership site and that webinar will be on our membership site in the future.

A (29:15)

Yes, that is very true.

B (29:16)

I put that out there in the universe and told people now.

A (29:18)

Oh God, that means I gotta do it.

B (29:21)

So check out our show Notes page for all the tips, resources and everything we talked about today. Like Kate said in our last podcast, subscribe rate review, send us an email post on Facebook how this impacted you, because that's what keeps us going. So we'll catch you next week for that podcast on starting up a private practice.

A (29:38)

See you then.

B (29:38)

Bye, Startup Nation. Thanks for letting us inspire you from startup to mastery.

A (29:44)

Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more. Sam.