Private Practice Startup Podcast
Episode 90: From the Horse's Mouth – Equine Assisted Psychotherapy & Learning
Hosts: Dr. Kate Campbell & Katie Lemieux
Guest: Marla Berger, LMHC, Registered Art Therapist, EGALA Advanced Certified
Date: June 16, 2018
Episode Overview
In this vibrant and informative episode, hosts Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux sit down with Marla Berger to explore the fascinating world of equine assisted psychotherapy (EAP) and its applications in private practice. Marla, a dual-certified therapist and equine specialist affiliated with Berger Counseling Services and Tomorrow's Rainbow, shares her professional journey, discusses the unique therapeutic dynamics of working with horses, and offers practical advice for therapists interested in incorporating EAP into their work.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into how horses act as powerful therapeutic partners, the metaphor-rich nature of the work, details about certification, and ways both clients and clinicians can experience the transformative impact of this modality.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Introducing Equine Assisted Psychotherapy (EAP)
- Differentiating Terminology
Marla distinguishes "equine assisted psychotherapy" (EAP) from "equine assisted therapy", clarifying that EAP requires a licensed mental health professional and targets deeper mental health goals, while the latter often refers to therapeutic riding."Psychotherapy literally would mean that there is a psychotherapist there, so there's someone providing mental health services."
— Marla Berger [14:03] - The EGALA Model
EAP, particularly via EGALA (Equine Assisted Growth and Learning Association), mandates a treatment team: one mental health professional, one equine specialist, and, of course, the horses."All EGALA certified professionals follow this model...there's always a mental health professional and always an equine specialist. I happen to be both."
— Marla Berger [03:53]
2. Marla’s Journey with Horses and Therapy
- Personal Backstory
Marla’s childhood fascination with horses evolved from collecting "briar horses" (plastic models) to volunteering with Special Olympics and becoming certified in multiple horse-assisted modalities."I grew up around [horses] quite a lot…plastic. I grew up in Miami…not a lot of real horses, but I always loved horses since I was a child."
— Marla Berger [06:37] - Integration with Tomorrow’s Rainbow
Tomorrow’s Rainbow is a nonprofit using horses to support grieving children, uniquely blending the Dougy Center model for grief and the EGALA model for EAP."We're the only one in the nation that actually uses the Dougy Center model and combines it with an EGALA model program and does that full time."
— Marla Berger [04:31]
3. How Equine Assisted Psychotherapy Works in Practice
- Metaphor and Authenticity in Therapy
Horses, as herd animals, respond to authentic emotions rather than superficial behaviors, creating natural metaphors for family and personal dynamics. The therapist’s role is often to maintain "clean" language and prompt the client to make connections themselves rather than imposing interpretations.
"If we're all over the place inside, but we say we're fine on the outside...the horses are not looking at the outside of us. They're actually looking at the ins of us..."
— Marla Berger [09:35] "We know that clients have solutions to their problems...using that solution focused lens...pointing those things out...so they can come up with what their solution is."
— Marla Berger [13:19] - Therapy Setting and Client Experience
Sessions often take place outdoors, under trees, or wherever the horses are. The setting itself can be grounding and therapeutic before formal work even begins.
“Once clients get out of the car, the first step is right into our first paddock...this huge black olive tree, and it’s just so soothing to stand underneath it...”
— Marla Berger [16:10] - Dealing with Fear and Resistance
Horses of all sizes can bring up metaphorical material—sometimes more than clients expect. Fear responses (even to tiny horses) can reveal deeper layers of resistance and emotional blocks.
“He is standing there going, ‘I can’t, I can’t. They’re too scary.’ And he’s standing next to our tiniest horse, Feather, who has one eye and is 24 inches at the shoulder.”
— Marla Berger [16:36]
4. Types of Clients and Issues Addressed
- EAP works for adults and children, individuals and groups, and is especially effective for issues like grief, trauma, substance abuse, family relationships, and situations where clients are "stuck" in traditional therapy.
“Some clients come to me with really severe trauma issues...I have had clients for two or three years ... typically, three to six months would be a typical thing…”
— Marla Berger [18:32] - It’s noted that children in particular can find the farm setting less intimidating and more engaging than traditional office therapy.
“On their end, they don’t feel like it’s therapy. They’re like, ‘I’m going to the farm. I’m gonna hang out with the animals.’”
— Katie Lemieux [19:27]
5. Incorporating EAP into Your Practice
- For clinicians wanting to specialize in EAP, certification, such as that offered by EGALA, is essential. It involves prerequisites (horse experience or clinical licensure), a five-day intensive training, and a focus on metaphor and clean language.
“To become an equine specialist, you have to have about...five years of horse experience...to be a mental health person, you have to be a licensed clinician...”
— Marla Berger [21:59] - Non-specialist clinicians can still collaborate with EAP providers, bringing clients to the farm for single or occasional sessions that break therapeutic impasses and catalyze insights through experiential activities.
“Sometimes therapists come to the farm with their client and we have a team of three...we have a very specific activity for that specific issue that that client might be really struggling with...”
— Marla Berger [23:57]
6. Logistics, Fees, and Collaboration
- Session Fees: Typically $150 per therapy hour in South Florida, subject to adjustment by region and provider.
- Collaboration Process: Includes pre-session planning, confidentiality agreements, and follow-up. Sessions may be billed as self-pay.
7. Training, Networking, & Community Resources
- Marla hosts monthly free "Breakfast at the Ranch" meet-ups for professionals, with rotating topics and CEUs for various licenses and certifications.
“Once a month I will be doing Breakfast at the Ranch...free CEUs...It’s a really great time to network and learn.”
— Marla Berger [29:41] - National and international organizations for finding programs or certification:
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the power of horses in therapy:
“If we are all over the place inside, but we say we’re fine on the outside...those horses are not looking at the outside of us. They’re actually looking at the ins of us and seeing, well, there must be something really going on wrong.”
— Marla Berger [09:35] -
On authenticity and metaphors:
“That’s the neatest thing about horses...they're really dependent, and they really give us a lot of metaphors that are exactly like our family dynamics.”
— Marla Berger [09:35] -
On moving from insight to action:
“A lot of times we have a lot of really, really good insight in therapy, but we can’t quite bridge that gap of trying a new technique or, you know what, that coping skill...being able to give them maybe a stressor, like, hey, I’m going to give you a horse...now all that stress response comes out.”
— Marla Berger [23:57] -
On the farm as a therapeutic environment:
“Even just being at the farm can be very therapeutic...life is so busy here...I can imagine it just feels like being away.”
— Katie Lemieux [15:47] -
On children’s perspective:
“They don’t feel like it’s therapy. They’re like, ‘I’m going to the farm. I’m gonna hang out with the animals.’ And that’s so awesome.”
— Katie Lemieux [19:27]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [03:00] Marla introduces EGALA and distinction between types of equine therapy
- [06:37] Marla’s personal and professional journey into EAP
- [09:35] How horses reflect family dynamics and authenticity in clients
- [14:03] Terminology: Psychotherapy vs. therapy, and referrals
- [16:10] The importance of setting and environment on the farm
- [16:36] Addressing fear and resistance in EAP sessions
- [18:32] Typical course, length, and discharge in EAP
- [21:21] Certification pathways and choosing the right training
- [23:57] When and how to collaborate as an outside therapist
- [28:02] Fees, session structure, and practical logistics
- [29:41] Free CEU/networking events and community connection
Resources & Further Information
- Tomorrow’s Rainbow: Free grief support groups for children (South Florida)
- Berger Counseling Services: Contact Marla for EAP questions or local resources
- EGALA and PATH International: For training, certification, and finding programs
- Breakfast at the Ranch: Free monthly event for local therapists, with rotating themes and CEUs
Final Thoughts:
This episode offers an engaging introduction to the world of equine assisted psychotherapy, highlighting its unique blend of experiential therapy, metaphor-rich interactions, and the powerful role horses can play in healing and growth. Whether you’re a clinician curious about incorporating new modalities, or a listener interested in alternative healing approaches, Marla’s expertise and enthusiasm shine through.