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Private Practice Startup Podcast
Episode 99: 3 Secrets to Writing Specialty Pages That Get You Clients
00:31:39
Becky DeGrossa
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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to the Private Practice Startup, where we inspire you from startup to mastery. We chat with entrepreneurs, experts in the mental health and business arenas, and successful private practitioners to give you the tools needed to make your dream practice a reality. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, and so much more. Here are your hosts, Dr. Kate Campbell and Katie Lemieux.
- [00:27]
B
Hey there, Startup Nation. Welcome back to another episode of the Private Practice Startup podcast. I am one of your hosts, Katie Lemieux.
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A
What's up, Startup Nation? It's showtime.
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B
And you are?
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A
I'm Dr. Kate Campbell.
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B
What is going on, everybody? It is after lunch for us on our. On our anniversary. As Kate had said, our podcast anniversary day. So this day two years ago, so June 6, 2016, which a weird date to pick, we actually released the Private Practice Startup podcast and we really didn't know where it was gonna go. I mean, we wanted to reach a more global audience and connect with therapists across the globe. And so here we are, two years later, still doing this, and have no plans on quitting.
- [01:10]
A
Yeah, we're loving it. We're having a blast. It's great to connect with people all over the world and really provide a ton of value for Startup Nation superheroes. And today we get to connect with Becky degrosa, who is so awesome. I'm really excited to have her here. Hi, Becky.
- [01:25]
C
Hello. How are you?
- [01:27]
B
We are doing great. And so before we get into today's podcast topic, so if you've been hanging out with us from the beginning, you probably have seen our transformation, and we wanted to say thank you so much for being a loyal member of our Startup Nation superhero family. And if you're brand new to us, welcome. We wanted to welcome you into our family. And so the best way to do that is hang out with us at Facebook, find the Private Practice Startup, join our Facebook group, and join our expanding community of therapists across the globe. And we also have a special gift for you. It's our A to Z cheat sheet, the essentials for building and growing your dream practice. You can head over to our website, private practicestartup.com head over to the resources tab and download the A to Z cheat sheet. And we are really excited because we just recently revamped the whole process of this. So with the A to Z cheat sheet, you're also getting five days back to back of practice building help for free. So if you are going to double download that, get ready to commit to some work and make some changes in your practice yes.
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A
Significant value and lots of great ideas for you to be really growing your dream practice.
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B
Yeah. And last week we actually talked to Melody Wilding of the Dirty Jersey. Born and raised there. Melody was. She actually talked to us about getting your private practice PR ready. So as therapists who love to help other therapists with marketing, there's so many different ways to market a private practice and this was a really cool way that we haven't talked about yet on this project, this podcast. So if you are interested in learning how to utilize PR to market your practice, you'll definitely want to check out that podcast. So before we actually officially turn it over to Becky, we're going to hear from our sponsor.
- [03:05]
A
Yes. Today's episode is sponsored by therachat, making it easy for you to engage with your clients between sessions. And clients love using this homework app. As therapists, you know how important it is to have your clients actually follow through with the homework that you assign and that will increase the successful therapeutic outcomes as well. So this is a really cool app. It's actually fully secure and HIPAA compliant. They have a website and mobile apps and you can assign pre made assignments or customized assignments that you create between sessions. You can also transfer documents and send unlimited messages to your clients between sessions. Therapists who are using therachat describe it as revolutionary and it's an essential companion. So to try Thera Chat now and experience it yourself, make sure to go to the Show Notes page. For this episode, use the coupon code TPPs, as in the private practice startup and you'll get your first month for free. So make sure to visit the Show Notes page to get that, click on the specific link. And if you want to learn more about Coris Kalinkus Kyligus. He's Greek and he's got a really cool last name. He's a cool guy too. If you want to learn more about Therachat, listen to our podcast episode with Coriscal on episode 92.
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B
How they really created their chat and all the really cool features and we got to actually have a really cool tour of it. So definitely recommend you guys checking it out because when our clients have better outcomes, guess what? They think that we're amazing.
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C
Right?
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B
That's what I love about therapy. It's like you give them the question, they give you the answer, and then they think you're amazing. So this just kind of helps you along with all that.
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A
And they're the ones doing all the work.
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B
Exactly.
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A
The secret, they're the experts.
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B
So Becky, you are the expert. In specialty writing. Writing specialty pages. And we're excited to talk about this because we get this question all the time.
- [04:52]
A
I'm so excited to have Becky on the show today. And it's like the universe has been trying to connect us in so many different ways for a long time now. I've been seeing Becky's name out there for. I want to say years now, but never really connected with her directly. I think Joe Muir hadn't mentioned something at one point about her and really talked her up. And then Tiffany McLean connected us around the holidays. And then I was out to lunch with a bunch of therapists after a Tony Robbins event down here maybe six weeks ago, and someone was raving about counseling wise and their experience with counseling wise. And I was like, oh, that's so cool. And they said, yes, Becky DeGrosa's company. And I was like, oh, my gosh. All right. Like, three times. We got to connect, and we had a great time talking. I think we talked for, like, an hour. We could have talked for days on our. On our initial zoom call. So.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Thank you for being here with us today, Becky.
- [05:43]
C
Yeah, thanks for. Thanks for having me, you guys. This is awesome.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Congratulations on the two years. Two years of the podcast.
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B
Well, thanks for being part of our journey.
- [05:53]
C
Yeah, sure.
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B
It's forever evergreen.
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A
We should be popping a bottle of champagne right now in, like, virtually.
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C
That's right. Yeah.
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B
Champagnes for everybody.
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C
Virtual champagne.
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A
There we go.
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B
So I was reading some of your fun facts, and you have traveled to 25 countries. That's awesome. What's been your favorite? So.
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C
Oh, gosh, that's a hard one. I would have to say New Zealand, I think.
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B
Okay.
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C
I've been there a couple times.
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B
Okay. And I'm noticing. So those of you are on the podcast. Yeah. There's so much pictures of elephants.
- [06:31]
C
Oh, yeah. Yeah. A couple years ago, went and did. Went to an orphanage in Africa and did a safari and attempted Kilimanjaro. Only made it to 17,000ft. Didn't get to 19 3. Darn it. But it's good enough. My partner wanted to go, and I was a support person, and I'm like, check big. That's the big give in this relationship. Yeah. Yeah. You want to go again? She didn't make it either. She only got to 17 5. She wants to go again. I'm like, yeah, well, I'll meet you in Mombasa next time. I'm not going.
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B
You're like, find someone else with that bucket list dream.
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C
Exactly. Yeah. You can only Love so much. What. What can I say?
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B
And then you said, you've mastered the art of op. And we were having a conversation about that and I didn't get it at first. And then you.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So give the listeners an example of op.
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C
OP is you put OP after a consonant and before a vowel. So maybe Pig Latinish. Yes, that's a kind of a correlation. But so Katie, you would be Kape. Topi. And Kate, you would be Kapeit.
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B
Cap 8.
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C
So, yeah, I would say hapa lapo. Hello. Kapetopi, AP and Kapeit.
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B
I got that one. How are we?
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C
How are you? Yeah, it's easier. Easier to understand than it is to say it.
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B
And then you said every week you talk with your 91 year old swim coach.
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C
Yeah, who taught me OP language. Yes. So we talk in OP language. And she. That's one thing she remembers, right? She can't remember what happened yesterday or what she had for lunch, but soon as she hears OP language, she just.
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A
That's so funny. I would be an epic failure at OP language. I am so bad at big Latin, at other languages, I just can't get it together. My brain doesn't like function in that way for some reason.
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C
So how about we talk?
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A
Go ahead.
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C
It's something you have to practice over many years to, you know, get good at.
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B
Master. That's.
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C
Yes. Just like most things, right? Exactly like most things.
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B
So speaking of language, let's talk about the language of writing a specialty page.
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C
Okay. Yeah, this is pretty fun stuff. So specialty pages, pretty much the way that I have evolved to a system that works in terms of website development for our therapist and coaching clients are. It's a nine step process. And the first three are the most important steps. It's foundation level, if you will. And what we do is we first figure out, work with the therapist to figure out what their niche is. Niche, niche, however you want to. Whatever you want to say. And with some overlap between not only their passions and experience and abilities and all that, but also targeting what people search for online. Right. So if. So people don't. Aren't gonna type in usually anxiety because my hair is falling out or whatever they're gonna say anxiety treatment. Right. Or anxiety therapist or anxiety counseling or something. So we do a little bit work on that and then we work on the specialty page for that. For that specialty. Okay. And with one thing that we've noticed is, and I'm sure you guys, you guys been around a long time, probably watched some of these studies that say that content that ranks is longer and longer every year. Right. It's like you have to write longer content in order for things to rank. And if you just have a little short paragraph, it's not going to get anywhere. It's not going to be seen. And so it could be an amazing short paragraph, but if no one sees it, who cares? Right? So what we've done is pretty much perfected this art of taking a topic that is a sensitive topic, like anxiety or depression or OCD or couples counseling or whatever it is, and writing in a way that the. That ends up in a long piece that will rank, a long optimized piece, optimized for the search engines, but also one that is very engaging and has a big impact on the reader, the visitor, the person who is searching for that service, that kind of help. And so there's a little process that goes with it. Kate, you're going through that right now. We have writers interview the therapist and write this piece. We also have a blueprint where anyone can get that blueprint from us and write their own piece. And we've had plenty of people do that as well. But it ends up resulting in a page that is very in depth, it's very full. It touches on all the pain the person is going through. It normalizes the situation so that they don't feel like they're a total freak. Right. It also gives them hope that therapy can actually help them with this because, you know, you go through all that pain like, oh, gosh, yes, I am feeling that. I am feeling that. Oh, my God. How did you know? I didn't know anyone even knew I was feeling that. Right. And so they're kind of blown away by that. But then it normalizes it, and it gives them hope that therapy can actually help with that and that you've done this before. It's no big deal. Come in and talk to me. And then it actually goes into objections and fears that people have as well. And we call those out directly because it's the elephant in the room. They're thinking it anyway. So why don't we go ahead and just say, you may. You know, this may sound good to you, but you may wonder, what if my partner won't come in to couples counseling? Okay, great question. People ask that all the time. Yada, yada, yada. Right. And so we answer it, and we typically choose three of the top concerns that people have for any one specialty. And of course, they're different for each specialty. Answer those and then go into kind of a uniqueness, part because the worst thing you want to have happen is to basically really meet someone with what they're dealing with, convince them that therapy can help answer their biggest fears, and then have them go shop for a therapist right now that they're convinced. So you actually want to talk about how you're unique and you're someone who can really help them. You're the bomb and then the bomb.
- [13:23]
B
How does one say that without saying hashtag the bomb?
- [13:28]
C
You. You bring in peers, peer testimonials or something. You know, there's a whole bunch of different ways to do it. You can talk a little bit about your experience of helping many people, maybe your experience of having dealt with the same thing, bringing in testimonials from other peers about how you were amazing, and they're very reluctant to refer people to other therapists, but they found that you were just knocked it out of the park with people, whatever. Right, right. And then call to action at the end of the page, of course. And so that's. Yeah, that's. It's kind of this whole process of weaving this page that ends up being not only long, so it'll rank and optimize, but really impactful in terms of the client just feeling like, oh, wow, I cannot believe I found you. Yeah.
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A
What are some of the most important things that therapists need to be aware of when they're writing their specialty pages?
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C
I think, well, you know, a big thing is the whole length issue. A lot of people will say, you're kidding. No one's going to read that. You know, I was told it should just be, you know, a paragraph, and it shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to scroll to read the whole thing. And, you know, that may be true, if any, if someone wants to read a Wikipedia little paragraph about something, great. But that's really not what they're looking for from you. They're looking for someone who can go deep and who can really understand exactly what they're going through. And if you think about the quote, unquote buying process, which is really what a potential client is going through, they want information. They want you to strut your stuff, show that you really get them. And you've done this before, and this is not a big deal for you, you know, and so the length is a huge thing that people. It's a huge misunderstanding.
- [15:22]
B
Becky, as I hear you talking, I love that you say that. And, you know, Kate and I teach a lot of the foundation of marketing, and we're always talking about the different aspects that you Talk about. And, you know, I remind clinicians that whether it's a specialty page or on the phone call or in a blog, it's the same foundational formula. And interestingly enough, I actually had a call yesterday with a woman who been to three different. And I'm doing air quotes for those of you who can't see couples counselors. And usually when I hear, like, something like, oh, well, we went for couples counseling, but they separated us, and they said it wasn't a good idea that we should work together. And I'm thinking to myself, like, that clearly was not an expert. Right? That's what I'm thinking in my mind. And so I apologize for, you know, any. The therapist kind of like, I'm sorry if it didn't work out for you. That might not have just the right therapist or a couples expert or whatever. And I remember, like. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, okay, so here she is now calling me, like, what's going to make me different? And just as we got talking and as we talked about, like, the benefits, and I just kind of explained a little bit, and I felt like I did need to demonstrate a little bit more for her because she's really shopping for the right therapist. She's already invested her time, her energy, and her money, and this is really important to her. And as I talked about relationships and things like that, she was like, wow, you really know what you're talking about. Like, yes, you are the right therapist. And so whether we're putting that in copy or in a presentation or on a video, that's so essential. Because when you. When you are an expert in your craft and you know it. And I told her I could. And sometimes even in session, I have to rein myself back in, because I was like, I could go on a soapbox about talking about relationships forever, right? Yeah, but that's so important. It isn't just like, oh, you know, we're gonna create coping skills for your anxiety. Call me. No, like, what do you know about anxiety? And, oh, my God, you know about those, like, thoughts and, like, how do you stop them? Like, oh, you told me how you stop them. That's amazing. I want to read more. So it's just, like, so important to. And I always talk about, like, you're sometimes writing, like, you're like, writing a novel. Like, really creating the visual and the experience for people to actually get the idea of what it would be like working with you. So I love that, like, what you do, and I love how you answer the objections and fears. Right in the copy, too.
- [17:28]
C
Yeah. The details are so important.
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B
So important.
- [17:33]
A
I'm right in the middle of going through this experience and working with Becky and her company to write one of the specialty pages. I must be a glutton for punishment because I've created all my own websites over the years, and every time I've created one, I'm like, I'm never doing this again.
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B
I wish I had a pattern, something that I could hate.
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A
I know, right? I know. I think seven or eight websites at this point, but literally, guys, you can hold me accountable. I will never do it again. I will outsource for the rest of my life. But writing the content for the website, coming up with a copy and all the marketing messages, knowing what to say, it takes so much time to do that. So one of the really cool things about working with Becky and her company is that they're interviewing me. And of course, I need to know who my target market is, my ideal clients, their pain points. There's, you know, a lot like the formula you just walk them through. You know, I walked through that with your copywriter, and they're writing it for me. I think it's actually being delivered in my inbox as we speak, so I don't have to sit here and waste hours and hours and hours perfecting my copy. So I'm really excited to see how that experience is.
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C
Yeah.
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A
How it turns out.
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C
That's great. And, you know, they're master level writers. And I don't know about you guys, but I think I have some trauma. I was raised by someone with a master's in English, you know? You know, all those papers in school. Mom, how do you spell this? Look it up.
- [18:52]
B
Dictionary.
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C
Yeah, but I just am slow. I'm not very fast with it. And they are so good, you know, it's. Oh, it's just wonderful. I'm a much better responder. So when they give it to me, I can respond and I can mark up a few things, and then it's really good. And if I had to start from scratch myself, I wander off onto tangents, you know, it's crazy. But anyway, yeah, I hope you like what you get back.
- [19:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, I was just on my website this morning tweaking a few paragraphs, and I think I got sucked into that for, like, two hours. Just a few paragraphs on my homepage. I'm like, okay, where is the time going? I have a million other things to do. This is not the best use of my time. So it's really great that you guys offer that service for therapists. It's really important.
- [19:45]
C
Yeah. Thanks.
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B
What do you find some of the mistakes that therapists make when they're trying to write their own services pages or specialty pages?
- [19:53]
C
I think that they, you know, I think therapists in particular. It's really hard for us to express what we do. A lot of times we will use jargon that's in the field. I was just looking at a site last night for somebody, and, you know, it was. It was a paragraph, and it was on trauma, and it was a quote by someone on trauma. And then the next little line was, and I'm EMDR level one and two certified or what. Yeah.
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B
Who.
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C
No one knows what that means. I mean, honestly, the. The general public does not even know the difference between a social worker and a psychiatrist.
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B
Yes.
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C
Let alone what EMDR is and what this training is. I mean, it could even be hurting her, them thinking, oh, she's still in school, still training. I shouldn't go to her. So. Yeah. So I think we have to really back up and put ourselves in the position of someone who knows nothing about the field. And if you can get yourself to that beginner's mind and think about what that person really needs to hear, then I think you're gonna do much better.
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A
Nice.
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C
Yeah.
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A
So I'm looking at our title, and I'm reading, and it's. It's three secrets to writing specialty pages that get you clients. And I know we're sharing some of these secrets already. I'm just curious. What. What else have. Have our listeners not heard that they need to know?
- [21:18]
B
What are they wondering, do you think?
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C
Yeah, let's put ourselves in the place of the listeners. Okay, so what are they wondering? You know, one thing is. I know that we've already talked about the length. That's. That's a big mystery to most people. And so long is good. That's the. You know, that's the message there. That's the first secret.
- [21:36]
B
And what are the amount of words, would you say?
- [21:39]
C
Oh, what we go for is a thousand to twelve hundred words. We find that in most cities, that works. Certainly in small towns, it works like gangbusters. But even in pretty, you know, like Boulder, where I am, there's more therapists than you can shake a stick at. And we have people ranking left and right with that length of a page. The other thing I think is. And it's maybe not so much of a specialty page issue in and of itself, but it's the niche issue, and if you want to get traffic, you actually need to have a page that's optimized around a term that people type in. So you really need to be. You need to have some knowledge of keyword research and understanding that that's what you want to show up for. You want to show up for those searches that people are actually typing in.
- [22:31]
B
Becky, what's one of your best suggestions for keyword research? Like, best tip?
- [22:35]
C
Yeah, it used to be that it was free, right, that you could use Google Analytics or Google Keyword tool associated with AdWords, but now unless you have a paid AdWords account active, then you can't get that anymore.
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B
Keyword planner.
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C
Yeah, exactly. Good old keyword planner. But there's a tool that I really like. It's called kwfinder.com kwfinder.com and it is very inexpensive. I think it's like $29 a month or something. And literally, someone could, in one month do enough keyword research to last them for the rest of their therapist website life. They could, they can. They could do the keyword research for their specialties, and that would take, you know, maybe five hours max, learning how to do it and doing it, and then they could do keyword research for podcasts until the end of time. So in one month for 29 bucks, it's an awesome tool that'll give people help with that. There's definitely a different. Different keywords in different parts of the country. So, you know, if you're on the. If you're in more of the. The red states, it's going to be one thing. If you're in more of the blue states, it's going to another thing, especially when it comes to terms like couples counseling or marriage counseling, that type of thing. But there are geographical differences, so you do want to do the keyword research and understand, you know, is anxiety treatment a better term to go for, or would it be anxiety counseling in my city or whatever, that type of thing? Child counseling is typically the term. A lot of people will go after something like adolescent therapy, and parents don't type that in. They type in teen counseling for the most part.
- [24:24]
B
For my teen, yeah. Yeah. Not even teenager. It's teen, right?
- [24:29]
C
Yeah, it's just teen. Yeah. So getting the right term is one of the secrets. Writing a long optimized page is one of the secrets. And I would say that the third secret is that it's really important to. Just like we were talking about putting yourself in the position of the person. And, you know, Kate, you probably went through that recently. We have this part of our process is a dig deep exercise. And the dig deep exercise is really, you know, what is this person worried about? What are they losing sleep over at night? You know, even what are their secret desires? Right? Because, you know, you want to think that way and it takes the willingness to be vulnerable in order to actually tune in to all those things. You would think that that would be really easy for us as therapists because we do this all the time. But by yourself, in front of a set of questions, you have to be willing to go there and really feel into that pain. Once you do that, then the message that you come up with is going to be not only spot on in terms of the issues that you're addressing, but it's just going to resonate with that in clients so much better.
- [25:49]
A
Speaking of that being vulnerable, one of the questions that you had asked in this whole process was something about, you know, has there been a time in your own life where you've struggled with a similar presenting problem as your ideal clients and how did you overcome that? So you're really, you're helping clinicians to get clear on their why for why they do what they do and being able to share that story and that story can be such a powerful thing. And that's something that a lot of times therapists really struggle with. Being vulnerable and being open and self disclosing and how much do I say and how much is too much and how much is not enough? And I, you know, want to keep a boundary between my personal and professional life.
- [26:28]
C
So.
- [26:29]
A
Oh, I don't want to say that it's, you know, feels, feels icky or uncomfortable. So I really like that you're inviting therapists to get clear on their why and their story. That is something that's really important.
- [26:39]
B
And when we work with our coaching clients, I let them know as we help them kind of identify their ideal client niche. I said, you know, there's a secret that's not such a secret. You either are your ideal client or the reason that you're in came to therapy is some related event or mother in law or something like that. You're really close to that most often. And so it's easy to just put yourself back into that place. And what was it that you were struggling with or what do you remember your, your family going through as you went through grief and bereavement, Losing someone traumatically, like just, just go back there. And that's a vulnerable process.
- [27:12]
C
It is, really is. But if you're willing to do it, it's awesome.
- [27:16]
B
Yeah. That's where all the emotions and the juice and everything that is going to help you connect with your ideal client.
- [27:21]
C
So, yeah, the blank slate are over. You know, get it. You know, I mean, if we're. If we have to market ourselves now instead of just refer, you know, just get it. Dr. Referrals. You got to show up as a human. You know, you just do. You have to show up as human beings, and that's really attractive.
- [27:39]
A
People are so connected to that. That's how we emotionally connect with one another when we show up as humans and be authentic. And, you know, we've recognized that even with our podcast.
- [27:49]
C
Oh, you said it.
- [27:50]
B
You said authentic. Get the bell. It was funny because we're talking about vulnerable. And I'm like, we didn't say authentic, though. And then you just did. There it was the a. A word. Yes. So, Becky, we appreciate you being with us today. And what do you want folks to take away from your message today?
- [28:10]
C
I think the biggest takeaway would be that there is definitely a system to make this work. I think most people don't believe it, honestly. I think they think, oh, there's so many websites out there. This is not possible. Right. How am I going to rank? I live in name your city. There's no way I'm going to be successful. And actually, there's a system that's proven that works. And you do have to learn some things about marketing to do it, but it is totally possible. And if you can't rank in Google because you're in San Francisco or whatever, you can still write a heck of a specialty page and run AdWords and get traffic to it. And so.
- [28:52]
B
Yeah, and just further back. And it is totally possible because as therapists, we're amazing marketers already. We just have to remind ourselves to place ourselves in the context. So you guys could totally do it. So if you guys are interested in reaching out to Becky or checking more about her and her business, it's counselingwise.com and Becky also has the Private Practice Builders Facebook group and Private Practice University, which we'll put all those links on the show notes page. And Becky, you have a giveaway, which is your three phase roadmap, and you actually, you walk through a case study with one of your clients on how to use the roadmap to fill her practice. So we're also going to put that link on the show notes page so you guys can grab a copy of that as well.
- [29:33]
C
Awesome.
- [29:34]
B
Again, thank you. Thank you for being with us on our anniversary. Thanks everybody.
- [29:41]
C
Thanks for having me. Yeah, if anyone wants to learn Auk language, just call.
- [29:48]
A
There'll be a definitely don't call me call Becky.
- [29:50]
B
A free one hour webinar coaching series on that.
- [29:53]
C
Yeah, exactly. We'll have practice sessions every week.
- [29:56]
B
And so next week is a really, really special episode. So special we don't even know what it is yet. No, actually it is special because it is our 100th podcast episode. So, Becky, you're 99.
- [30:09]
A
You're 99.
- [30:11]
C
You're 99.
- [30:12]
A
So the crazy thing is we still.
- [30:14]
B
Aren'T sure what we're gonna do to do our special 100th episode, but we hope that you definitely hang out.
- [30:21]
A
We are going to do something super special. We just haven't decided.
- [30:23]
B
We haven't decided yet.
- [30:25]
A
We got some possibilities out there, but you got to wait and see to listen.
- [30:29]
B
So, Startup Nation Superheroes, thanks for hanging out with us again. We'd love to hear from you if you want to rate and review the podcast, if you want to just share a Google review or if you just kind of like to, you know, be a little bit more private and drop us an email. It's always a delight to hear from you and how these podcasts are helping you in your practice and change your life. That's what continues to inspire us, to inspire you from startup to mastery. So have an amazing day.
- [30:54]
A
See you next time. Thanks for joining us on the Private practice startup. Visit theprivatepracticestartup.com for awesome resources, free trainings, attorney approved private practice paperwork, and so much more.
- [31:12]
C
SA.