← Problems to Profit
Problems to Profit
Burned Out from Hustling? Discover a Healthier, More Profitable Way to Succeed
00:48:59
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- [00:04]
A
Hey, family. Welcome back to Problems to Profit. I am, like, so excited right now. I cannot even express the level of excitement. I had a cool experience this morning. I was. I walked into a group. I walked into a group of powerful men. Like, I think I'm a pretty masculine dude. I like to think that I can take on a room and get up, talk shit, like, be known. And I'm in this group of some men that I would say, like, I had a little imposter syndrome going and sitting next to him and, you know, wound up being six men the total. I was one of them, but all of them power. Like, all of them straight, dominant, masculine, except one. Okay, there's this one guy, and he had, like, this kind of calm peace. I don't want to call it a feminine, but. But it was a balance. I mean, it was like. It was pure polarity. It was a balance between the masculine and the feminine. And all these guys, just intense. Tens men of men within five minutes of me sitting down, including me, were owned by this beautiful man that we're gonna get to talk to today. His name is Justin Null. And, you know, through some of that conversation, I got to hear where he got some of this, like, balance and energy and charisma and why I want him on the show and why, literally, I didn't have to beg because he's so genuine and generous, but I would have to be fair to have him come on this podcast. But why I want him here is because at moments that I've been able to tap into where I've been able to work with my team in my business, show an amount of love that he was showing, and actually care genuinely about the people that I work with is where I've had the most massive results. And, I mean, I've seen people do breakthroughs, and I've seen people help people outside of maybe, like, Tony Robbins, I've never seen anyone do it with this many type as. With this level of power at one time in a way that was just outside of my purview. So without me going on and on, because I think I could.
- [02:12]
B
Dude.
- [02:12]
A
Justin, welcome to the show. I'm so excited for people to get what I think you're going to share and blow their minds with.
- [02:18]
B
Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here, man.
- [02:20]
A
So the podcast is Problems to Profit. As we talked. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you specialize in? And then I'd like to kind of hear your story of kind of how you Got to becoming the man you are today.
- [02:38]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So my whole social media following as it stands today is built around metabolic health and a concept I teach people, that is food versus poison. So I help people understand. It's mostly people who have struggled with health and wellness their whole lives. They've been obese for 30 years. They can't figure out what's going on. And I help people see that the body's default state is health and wellness. If we can get out of the way. So before you go into biohacking, before you go into calories and fitness and all the things, it's like, where are you ingesting poison? If we can take that out of your life, your body's gonna start to heal itself and do incredible things. So that's all built around a company called Clovis. But I got into health and wellness by accident, actually, because I was a professional musician my whole life. So I started playing piano when I was 8. By 17, music was my job. I went to Berkeley College of Music in Boston, got a degree in songwriting, and I moved down to Nashville, and by age 25, I had a reality TV show on ABC, and I was doing 300 shows a year. And I had. My music was licensed in movies and TV shows, and I was hustling and, like, just like, living the faux rock star kind of playboy life in my 20s. Right. And so that's a little bit of what you saw today. What's important about this journey is that I was hyper. What the world would call toxic masculine is, like, where I came from. I was, you know, arrested many times when I was a teenager, and street fights and entrepreneurship, that was not legal. You know, these kinds of things. I just was hyper. Hyper masculine. Where I came from in New England.
- [04:05]
A
Did you just say drug dealer?
- [04:07]
B
Maybe? I don't know. I plead the fifth, you know, but it just was very. I mean, it was. It was crazy when I found music. The music thing kind of really saved my life because, like, I only applied to one school, and it was Berkeley, and I got in and. And then ending up down in Nashville. I got this. What some people think of, like, right now, today, I end up coaching men that are under the age of 30 who have made a lot of money in crypto or dropshipping or something like that. And I have a program called King vs Princess, because they're still in, like, the. Look, I have a Lambo, and I'm on Tinder type stage, and they can't figure out why they're not happy. And I get to explain to them, like, listen, you can go down that hallway of, like, hooking up with as many people as you can. I live that I could get off stage. Hi. I'm the guy from the stage. And I can have whatever experience I want to have with anybody that I want to have, have it with. And it's very, very empty. So it was in my late 20s where I was like, I don't like this industry. I don't like being here. The reality TV show experience, I hated it. I didn't like any aspect of it. It wasn't fun. I was like, I don't know. I don't know why I'm doing this. Like, I don't like this anymore. 300 shows a year, totally burnt out. But I was always obsessed with fitness. I was a hockey player. I was a kid. Like, I'm a purple belt in jiu jitsu. I deadlifting 425 pounds. I was a boxer in college. Like, I just was obsessed with the fitness side. And I started to learn about nutrition.
- [05:21]
A
Bad for the guys that fought you?
- [05:23]
B
Yeah, yeah, it was. I was. I was skilled in that in those places, for sure, you know, but so as I was learning about nutrition just sort of as a hobby, like, universally at the same time, in my. In my late 20s, my niece was born terminally disabled. She was having over 300 seizures a day. She was put in the pediatric ICU immediately, and within the first few weeks, they ran like, a million dollars in testing on her. Like, we cannot figure out what's wrong with this child, but she was having seizures. The only thing they know how to do is treat epileptic seizures. So in the medical community, they do that with a ketogenic diet. That's what keto is used for in medicine, is, like, prevention of seizures. The Charlie foundation helps children with seizures, and they put Savannah on a G tube, which is kind of a death sentence. They drill a hole in her stomach. She sped through a tube, and they were feeding her a ketogenic baby formula called Keto Cal, which I realized very quickly was toxic sludge. It was high fat, low carb, which is keto. But it was, like hydrogenated vegetable oils and artificial ingredients and synthetic vitamins that are not usable by the body. A lot of, like, really gnarly stuff. I brought that to the attention of the neurologist. He told me that he has never checked those ingredients and never thought to. And I ended up working on this Paleo superfood powder in my kitchen with food dehydrators. And food processors. That became a baby formula that we fed to Savannah through her G tube. And then I added a bunch of protein to it, started selling it to crossfitters. That was how I initially got into e commerce with a product called the perfect paleo powder. And then through the experience with Savannah, I call it like my red pill moment of, like, mainstream medicine is horrific. And I started sharing this online, going live on Facebook and teaching people what I learned about mainstream medicine. I started studying biochemistry and biology, and that was, you know, Savannah was born 10 years ago, and now it's, you know, the followers that I have on social. And I've run thousands of people through my programs and have amazing communities. And it was really just. I was really angry. I was angry, and I was willing to take this thing on head on. And, you know, it's interesting now with the make America healthy again movement. It's like, you know, 10 years ago, I was on the mountaintop taking the arrows, and everybody was like, you're crazy. There's no corruption in food and science and blah, blah, blah. And I was, like, really hammering it.
- [07:35]
A
It's good to see people waking up and at least having the discussion. I don't know where it's going to go, but I love the discussion. Be gone.
- [07:42]
B
Exactly.
- [07:43]
A
So. And I want to make sure I'm hearing this right, because this is a beautiful story, by the way. Thank you. You were basically faced with a situation where Savannah might have died for sure had they continued feeding her this possibly. So the system could have killed somebody you loved. And you made a decision. You made a choice to kind of go find a way to fight through it and create something that very well could have been the thing that saved her life.
- [08:07]
B
Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's one of those things I'll never really know, but they. They prep you for it. Her life expectancy was less than 3 years. Savannah is now 10 years old. But, I mean, and always people, the follow up is always, how is she? And, I mean, she's considered 100 disabled. They're like, there's no real brain activity. She can't lift her own head up. Like, there's a nurse that lives in their house 50 hours a week, and, you know, she's still fed through a tube and she's in a wheelchair and all these things. But it's. I don't know. I can't pretend to know how she got to 10.
- [08:37]
A
But, wow, how did that affect you or may still be affecting you as you were going through some of those trials? And challenges. And is that part of what kind of brought you the person you were today? Because it sounds like you were a fighter, a plea the fifth, or you had some struggles, you had some gangster in you. But today I didn't see a gangster today. I saw. I saw this. I saw the gentlest person in the room become the most powerful with a bunch of people that were powerful and deserve respect as being powerful, but they were not as powerful as you in that moment. And I was included in that. And so how did this fighter, this slugger, this killer, this plea the 5th or turn into this guy? What was it? What was that pain that turned into gold that brought you here?
- [09:28]
B
Yeah, I mean, I realized that it took me a long time, but once I understood what those sort of like playboy years were in my 20s were like, a desire for a relationship with the feminine that was nurturing. And I didn't understand that, right? So I was so desperate for love. And I have a great relationship with my mom now, better than stronger than it's ever been. But my mom is one of these people where she's like, some people are not meant to have kids. I'm one of them, you know, and she goes back and she's like, I wasn't ready and I didn't understand nurturing and affection. And she's come such a long way in her own personal development journey. But I just was desperate for external validation is what it was. And at eight years old, I started playing piano and people were like, this kid's a phenom. He's the next Billy Joel, he's the next Elton John. And if I look at, I've now done Jungian depth psychology, and I look at the ego versus shadow. Being a big charismatic performer and being talented is very much in my ego, right? Being a wallflower, being quiet in my shadow, right? So I learned this. This is how I get love, the things that get us more love as children. Because love means survival. Lack of love means death, because you're dependent on your family for everything. I need food, shelter, safety, all these things, right? So I became this big giant, charismatic performer all through high school, 15 years old, I started a clothing line selling out of my locker, making like 1500 bucks a month, selling clothes, playing on stage, all this stuff, right? So I just did more and more and more of that. And it wasn't until my late 20s where I was drunk six nights a week and playing 300 shows a year and going to bed at 6 o'clock in the morning and I had a kind of dating situation with this girl. And I told her, like, listen, I'll spend as much time with you as you want to spend with me, but I'm never going to be your boyfriend. And a few months later, she wanted me to be your boyfriend, Got very upset, and she gave me a book by Donald Miller called Scary Close. She's like, you should read this. And I read this book, and I was like, oh, I'm incapable of intimate relationships. I did not have a men's group. Out of the question for me, dude. I just, like, if I have a problem, I'm just gonna handle it. And I will overpower people and I will be very alpha. Like, I remember when I was a musician, any friends I had who were women, like their husbands, their boyfriends, whatever, they hated me. They hated being around me because I was. I was still a powerful guy, but not in a loving way. We're just like, no, I'm the motherfucker. That's me, right? I'm the performer, I'm the this, I'm the that. But I'm home, I'm alone, I'm recharged. I was, like, always alone. No depth of intimacy in my relationships. And I was like, this. This side, the way this thing is going is not serving me. So I did a hard pendulum swing. First psychedelic I ever did was I went out to Peru and did ayahuasca in the jungle. I never tried anything else before.
- [12:02]
A
Was that a turning point? Was that.
- [12:03]
B
Was that a massive turning point? I came home. I remember coming home from that. I got out of a toxic relationship I was in. I was at a CrossFit gym doing thrusters for Time, and I, like, put the bar on the ground and I was like, this is not good for me. And I walked out of the CrossFit gym and I never went back.
- [12:19]
A
So psychedelics and, you know, different, I guess we can call them medicines, we can call them drugs, we can. We can use whatever nomenclature that society wants. But they're becoming mainstream. They're becoming a topic. And it's funny because I've been to several masterminds, and it was really. I mean, I'd heard of mushrooms, I'd heard of acid in high school, but I hadn't ever tried it there. But, like, when I go to some of these masterminds and groups, like, it's a fairly mainstream conversation. Do you think that that is kind of making a place in the entrepreneurial world?
- [12:51]
B
Yeah, I do. You know, I think that psychedelics are a tool. Every single thing that exists in my reality is internal, my entire reality. I think of it as a reflexive, hollow sphere. Everything, everything in my external reality is a reflection of what's going on with me internally. So I don't think of psychedelics as like a panacea where like, this is great for everybody. Like, I think if you're like an egotistical narcissist, let's say, and you go do psychedelics, you may come out and start the Nexium cult, you know, and become this thing. It's like psychedelics are not automatically good.
- [13:24]
A
Okay?
- [13:24]
B
So I, I actually think it was the combination for me of psychedelics. Somatic work. I did a lot of somatic work to be able to access my emotions and what I do with men. Now because of my background that I just explained to you, I use rage as a side door. It's very easy for me to get men to access rage. And like, I'm the alpha dominant martial arts guy, right? Like, I can pull that out of people. I can get the scary masculine rage out of you. And then 10 minutes later, after we do a rage exercise, now you're a puddle and you're crying on the ground and you want your mommy and you're trying to figure out what the is going on, how is this happening, why am I crying? Like you said with the energy work, sometimes you're like, what is this? Where is this coming from? And I'm helping men access these deeper points because the whole masculine journey is like very intellectual, you know, because we have to be providers, we have to be protectors, we have to solve problems. How many times do you hear it in a romantic relationship where the, the feminine, and I'm going to use terms masculine, feminine, because even these, these polarities, they exist in any relationship with any gender, with any combination of two humans. Feminine polarity is there as we go.
- [14:24]
A
Into it, Because I've heard it so many ways and I think, I think society is confused on this. And I have my own hypothesis, but I'd love to hear your framework. You know, I think a lot of people hear masculine and they think male and they hear feminine and they think female.
- [14:35]
B
Exactly.
- [14:36]
A
Can you, can you kind of dive into what does masculine and feminine mean? So that as we're diving through, like, like, like listeners can get a context for.
- [14:45]
B
Well, so the one thing that people can't, can't get confused about biologically is you have a mom and you have a dad. Sure. Right. So let's just take it from there. Biologically, like that's how a Human comes into the world. We have the egg, we have the sperm. There's this thing. So I always try to explain to people that what we're doing in romance is reparenting a romantic relationship. If you're in a conscious loving relationship is meeting the emotional needs of your partner that were not met for them when they were a child. Same as ego shadow. Right. I'm this big charismatic guy because that's how I got love. So if I go to a party and I'm quiet and I'm a wallflower, I'm gonna be very afraid. That feels weird to me. That shadow work of not being the biggest person in the room is scary for me because I'm afraid I'm not gonna get love. And if I don't get love, I die because I'm dependent on my parents for all these things. Right. So the masculine feminine dynamic comes from your parents. No matter how you slice it, you know, if you grow up and you don't have a dad, then someone around you is going to take fill that masculine role, be the example of this masculine energy that you have. So I literally look at this as the polarities of masculine, feminine are the whole self. I am everything. I am the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, I am the light, I am the dark. I am the whole thing. Right.
- [15:57]
A
So you need both, you need polarity. Like it is a fundamental need. I mean, I heard it told the other day, or not the other day. I mean, this is fucking 10 years ago. I'm so bad on quoting past dates. I heard it told by Alison Armstrong that masculine and feminine are the polarities that create attraction. She, she, she spoke a really good quote. She said like, look, if there's a woman you're not attracted to, she's full feminine. You're a dominant masculine. You're going to look like you may not be attracted, but you're going to look because there's an attraction of the energetics.
- [16:26]
B
Yes.
- [16:26]
A
And she kind of framed, which I think fits your point, that masculine was more of a results oriented energy and feminine was more of an experiential environmentally, I guess, balancing creative. I'm not sure I fully am explaining it well, Energy. But, but together they create a whole.
- [16:44]
B
Yeah.
- [16:44]
A
And I don't know if I'm putting that right.
- [16:46]
B
It's 100% right. And this is the thing is like, it's the idea of us coming together as people. We're doing it right now. You and I are consciousness. We have two subjective realities that we're putting together in A Venn diagram. We're now creating a new consciousness that can only exist within you. And I can only exist with a combination of us. It's making a human. We talk. People. People have said it. In this event here, we're making a business. Me and my partner are making a business. It's like a baby, right? So it's this constant thing, like, I can only expand so much. If you take like a monk that's in, goes into a cave and meditates by himself for 30 years, great, okay. This guy's now enlightened. Put him behind the wheel of a yellow cab in downtown Manhattan in traffic, he's not going to know what to do. It's just not a skill that he has. There's only so much he can do by himself. So now with me and my relationship with Megan, who is this incredible badass, crazy entrepreneur, way more successful than me monetarily and all this stuff, I think of her as like my oracle, because her feminine knowing and her feminine intuition, when we come together, she's relying on me for this masculine structure. I protect her, I provide for her, I keep her safe. All these different things, I make shit happen, you know? And then her, if I'm really stuck on something, I'll just come to her and I'll fill her in, like, what do you think? And I just can watch her. She's like, oh, it's this. And she's always right every time I look back. And I'm like, wow. It's like she's like this feminine, amazing oracle thing. So together we're way more powerful than apart.
- [18:16]
A
So I'm curious. I haven't met Megan, but this sounds like a fascinating dynamic, and I want to run it through and make a comparison to what I saw today. Because today you were leveraging polarity to own all these powerful men and not own them. I don't want to use the wrong words. You were there with a loving intention to help and guide them in their relationships, and they were eagerly and actively receiving help, which men don't fucking do. And you weren't doing it. I'm a pretty masculine guy. And a lot of times people come to me and they're like, fuck, man. Okay, I can trust you because you're masculine. Generally, men, men will look up to another masculine. And that's what I would have anticipated based on normal, measurable standards of how men behave with other men. These men doing. You weren't the dominant masculine today. You were a, a, a, you were a. You're like, source Polarity, almost like it was like. Because I've seen people like own somebody in a space like mask and locks, horns or, or, or follows the leader. Right? Like that's what it does. Like, no, they, they were, they were all guided and attracted and I, I haven't seen that since. I've seen rooms like Tony Robbins. But then I hear you talking about Megan and I think of like men and women. And I find men and women fascinating. And I've done some Alice Armstrong's work and I love her stuff. I actually, I took her work and I started pulling it into the business world to kind of leverage the benefits of the genders in business. And not meeting Megan, but hearing that she's like this wildly successful entrepreneur. Women are born all feminine, but then they're conditioned and they learn they're masculine. Right, for sure. And I would assume, this is my hypothesis without meeting your bride, that Megan might be relatively masculine. So you've had in nature, or at least in patterns like that, especially if she comes home from work and a hard day and she's had to go crush it in an office or something like that. And you've got to develop patterns to work with this like power centered female to balance her masculine and feminine. Because, and this is my own hypothesis like that I've just kind of inferred, I think men are born a certain percentage masculine, a certain percentage feminine, but it's not like a woman who can flip it on and off like a light switch. I think it's more of a, like, it's like a soup, if you will, and it's all mixed together. And like when, when women are like, hey man, why won't you be present with me? It's like, well, to us that means like, oh, I gotta find all the fucking peas in this soup. Like, how do I dig this shit out? Like, like, was Megan like kind of your guide in many ways for balancing this superwoman who has a huge feminine and has a huge masculine and has obviously leveraged it to her productivity. And I'd love to meet her based on my assumptions and correct me anywhere. I'm off because I'm making assumptions. Was she your guide that helped you kind of become who you are and balancing these power centers to, to create what I saw today when I walked into that circle?
- [21:01]
B
Yeah. The single most powerful catalyst for my personal development ever is Megan, My relationship with Megan, but also vice versa.
- [21:07]
A
So then what everyone needs, then what everyone needs to be a successful entrepreneur is a relationship with Megan. Guys. I'm just kidding.
- [21:14]
B
I promise I'm joking. No, but I mean, is it. But the same for her, right? Is because. Had been in relationships before she was married. She's all these things. And she was always. I mean, you know, she paid all the bills. She was like the breadwinner. She had this crazy successful company and everything. And I came to her, you know, she exited her company short after. Shortly after we started dating. And then she chose. She's like, listen, I trust you. You're a different masculine than I've ever experienced. I don't know what this thing is that you inherently have. It's like you said, you're like, you walked in, and I don't know what it was or just this thing. Megan felt that with me, and she's like, I'm gonna go full trust. And I told her. I was like, you can go full trust. I got you. Like, we're gonna move to my house in Nashville. We'll live down there. We're gonna. Like. I basically took over the. The structure of our life. It was very hard for her. It was, like, tremendous shadow work for her to kind of, like, let those reins go. And even now, right, like, she's home, and she's. She's like, she was supposed to be here and everything. And now I'm here. I'm doing the thing. She trusts me. I'm out in the world doing these things. So she wasn't able to fully surrender into her feminine until she had the polarity of me there as the structure and holding that for her. I wasn't able to fully surrender into my feminine and allow myself to be nurtured and find the emotional depth of, like, I can cry in this woman's lap. I've never cried in a partner's lap.
- [22:33]
A
Never.
- [22:33]
B
I'm 38 years old. I had never done that at all. Like, I didn't trust. I wouldn't. I wouldn't live with my girlfriends, nothing. It was just like, I'm not. This is like, my emotions are walled off, period. So both she and I. I was able to actually access my feminine through Megan, which made me more masculine, and she was able to access her feminine through me. And her masculine became stronger, her feminine became stronger. Because I find that, like, especially like heterosexual women who have a very overdeveloped masculine because they're forced to operate in the patriarchy, at its core, they're still feminine. So their masculine is kind of like an angry frat boy who's just, like, puffing out his chest. And, like, I can do the thing I can do the thing.
- [23:14]
A
I love this so much because we're going to trigger so many. So many people with it. But it's true, like, if you're getting triggered right now, guys, like, just remember, if it's the truth that triggers you, you're fucked. So maybe pay attention. Let's go all the way through here. Because, I mean, this is gold.
- [23:27]
B
Yeah. And if we take that through all the way, right? Like, as Megan will say, Megan knows this. She's like, oh, yeah, that may be true. My core is not masculine, but I developed such a strong masculine that most of the time, entrepreneurial events or whatever, Meghan's in a room. She's the most masculine one there.
- [23:44]
A
Yeah.
- [23:44]
B
Even in a room full of men, you know, because she's overdeveloped to that point. It's her standard. Yeah. So for her to learn to let that go and actually find a masculine that she could trust was huge for her. And for me, I have such mommy wounds that I had to find a feminine that I could trust. And what I shared with the group this morning, right, is like, I'm teaching people how to hold space for their feminine partner and how to express emotions without words, which we can get into, which is super important.
- [24:08]
A
I think we should, because that's what you were explaining when I walked in there. And, you know, at the office, like, this is where you caught me. And you'd already caught a few others, so apparently I was the most dense one, which is normal in most rooms. But you were talking, and it was a. Would you call it nonviolent?
- [24:30]
B
Well, I was talking about my dislike of nonviolent communication. So I think that when we get into entrepreneurial spaces, especially when entrepreneurial spaces start to talk about romantic relationships or talk about, like, even team building and all these things, man, these tools can work. They can be helpful, and they can.
- [24:50]
A
Work in, you know, romantic relationships, but they can work in office relationships. They can work with your mom and dad, your brother, your sister. This tool can work in every relationship.
- [25:00]
B
100%. Right. But if you. If you run through nonviolent communication, the book, whatever you read through that thing, tell me how much heart is in that book. The answer is zero. This is a heady endeavor. It's like, how can I logically empathize with you and understand what you're saying so we can both find value in this? It's just like, masculine, masculine, masculine, solve problems. But it's like, communication should not be looked at as a problem. If we go into communication of, like, how do I solve this communication problem, we're already in trouble because we're in our head and we're doing the masculine thing of trying to solve the problem. And there are so many women in the world that are like, I'm trying to express myself to my husband. He just hits me with all these solutions and problem solving. We have to drop out of the head and into the heart. Which is what I was explaining to these guys is all of us as entrepreneurs, we get taught these things like nonviolent communication and then we're stuck in these loops. Or we're very high powered people and we're very successful and we're telling other people how to change their lives. But at home we're having fucking problems and we don't know how to fix them. Why isn't all the things that I'm teaching to the world, why isn't it working for me? And I got to get you out of your head to fix that.
- [26:03]
A
So. And this is where I want to like, I want to like extract this from you. I want to like, like create a dose of this and feed it to people because it was so cool. Like, like I consider myself to be a good communicator. And as I was disclosing to you before the show, like I walk in and say, there's a conflict. My general rule of thumbs basis, the way I was trained in communication is to match your state so that we're kind of aligned energies and then de escalate from there. Which I think works at work. But it's not always great in my relationship, even though it works. Probably because my wife is very pliable and she loves me enough to deal with my bullshit. Maybe. But what you were explaining when we walked in to all these masculine men that would never take advice from somebody less powerful than them. And you weren't using masculinity or femininity, you were using something else. You were using like a pure polarity to explain, go into what you were sharing about, like the way you would have solved the same problem that I would have matched states with as a good communicator.
- [27:06]
B
Matching states, right. So I'm going to use matching states and triggered sort of interchangeably here. Right. In the rules of communication, the way that I teach them in romance. And again, like I'm working with couples on this. So you can do this with your business partners, you can do it with employees, with whoever. Right. If both individuals are triggered, you need to separate and not spend time. You are only going to do damage to this relationship if One person is triggered. Communication cannot happen, period. You can't solve problems from there. You can't plan the future. You cannot do anything with one person. That's triggered. Right? So we have to get to a state where zero individuals are triggered. And sometimes this is the next day, any 24 hours after the space holding that I'm going to talk to you about if anyone's triggered, no problems are getting solved. Communication's not gonna happen. But. And you heard this today, a few men said this where they're like, well, I had to learn to go up to my partner and be like, hey, it's really seeming like you're triggered. How can I help you? Right? The last thing you wanna do is tell a triggered person that they're triggered and you're not. That's not gonna work, right? It's this blame game thing that you're doing. So before we go into like the space holding thing, what I had shared with the, with the group is we're always taught in traditional therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy in nonviolent communication, all these different things share how you're feeling. Everybody does this with words, right? Where I would be like, Preston, when you said X, I was feeling sad. That's not sharing emotions. It's immediately putting my emotions on you as your responsibility. Whether we like it or not, the only other person in this communication is you. So if I'm saying I feel X because it's immediately blamed on you, you're the only other person here. Who else's fault is it? Right? And we have this story in our heads that that's sharing emotions. It's not. So what I shared with the men downstairs was if I ask someone, tell me how you're feeling, and they say, I'm feeling sad. This person lacks emotional intelligence. If I ask another person who's extremely emotionally intelligent, tell me how you're feeling, and they go, hmm, now immediately I know what I'm dealing with. I can match your emotional needs. I can give you exactly what you need. I know you need a hug. I know you need to be held. I know you don't feel like explaining yourself right now. We need to get the fuck out of the way.
- [29:25]
A
And that's what I watched. And I watched you own. These were self help guys. I mean, these guys were. They were open, but they were not. They were so masculine. I would not normally have expected guys that masculine to be taking this advice. And I watched you in this, like, level of play where you were dancing between masculine, feminine, masculine, feminine. It was perfect polarity to like match what they needed in moments. And you weren't just like saying it, you were using it in your body as you said it. And like we all learn that like body language is the largest portion. I don't remember the exact numbers of communication. Then there's like tone and then there's like words. And I think the words you say are 7% of communication right now. As I watch you kind of, for anyone that can't see the show, kind of go do the. And like you're making a face and you're showing an emotion. You're giving like a little tone.
- [30:18]
B
Yeah.
- [30:19]
A
But you're not saying any words.
- [30:20]
B
No.
- [30:21]
A
You're leaving out the 7% and letting them underwrite in their own head language what your needs are with body language and tone of voice, which is so aligned to what I believe is true on communication, even though that's so outside of the normal way of communicating. Like, it's so aligned.
- [30:36]
B
Well. And if, if we take this back right when I said that, especially in romantic relationship, I think romantic relationship is reparenting. Right. So let's keep that thread. And then I'm going to ask you if there were, I don't care if it's your kid, not your kid, anybody. If there's a two year old here right now and they throw themselves on the floor and they start crying and they're throwing a tantrum, do you walk over to the two year old and you say, listen, I really want to, I really want to help you, but you better explain yourself and tell me why you're feeling this way. And if you don't have a log rational story of why you're having this emotional response, I can't help you. That's insane. It's emotional abuse.
- [31:11]
A
This is so true. But so outside of just, I guess, common cultural taboos and norms.
- [31:20]
B
Well, because why? Right? How do most people learn about how to relate and communicate within the relationship? They read books, they listen to podcasts, they turn their brain on and they intellectualize. This is the framework. This is the framework that will say it's like, dude, you have to get out of your head and you have.
- [31:38]
A
To learn to feel your emotions and frameworks. I don't want to necessarily damn the frameworks because they could be beautiful too, and they can give processes and systems and all that, but it's sort of like the jeet kune do thing. You gotta use what works. And not every framework and not every podcast and not every book fits you. Just like not every diet is going to fit any one person. So, you know, frameworks have their place, but if you can't measure. And it was so cool because I've not seen it before. Like, I've not seen what I watched you do. And. And. And I'm actually excited to go out for the rest of my day and play with it. Like, I want to go play with kind of a. I don't know what you call it, but, like a silent communication.
- [32:22]
B
Sure.
- [32:23]
A
Like, and. And see if I can. With tone of voice and with, like, little. Little bits of body language and maybe some matching and mimicking like. Like to kind of get attention.
- [32:32]
B
Yeah.
- [32:33]
A
Dive into. To, you know, engineering behaviors. I want. I want to go play with the group later today and see what I can do with this. Like, and I challenge any listener. Like, do this. Do this with your staff. Like, even if it's just a little intentional piece, like, because it was. It was magic, bro. Like, so I want to. I want to pivot. Thank you for that, by the way. I really appreciate that because I think it's valuable.
- [32:56]
B
Well, really quick, just the framework piece. Right. Okay. So what I'm saying is all that I just expressed here is we're clearing the emotional charge. So this is what I'm. There are frameworks for communications. When I say when one person is triggered, you can't communicate. So I'm giving you a tool for diffusing the trigger. So if I do this with my romantic partner, and now she's settled, and she feels heard, and I'm cuddled up with her, and I'm holding her. I love you so much. You're so safe. Thank you for sharing that with me. It might be 24 hours later that the charge is completely removed, and then we can sit down. And now we have frameworks for communication so we can solve the problem. We're not ignoring the problem. She's upset for a very real reason. And if it has to do with me, I need to work on what she needs me to work on to prevent this in the future. So all we're doing is clearing the emotional charge. Now, when I started doing this in my relationship, you get in a conflict, you start arguing. It might be three days before you guys are ready to cuddle again. Snuggle up with this. Ten minutes later, we're cuddling. It's the fuse is. Is before the tn. The TNT doesn't go off because you snip the fuse off. You handle the emotional situation like a child re parenting. You hold the emotion, you bring down the trigger. Then from there, when no people are triggered, and you say, hey, we're both on the same team and we want to get better and we love each other. That's where frameworks come in. But when you try to interject the frameworks, when an emotional reaction is happening, you're basically abusing that person and telling them to suppress and repress their emotions.
- [34:26]
A
Okay, so the framework has value.
- [34:27]
B
But.
- [34:28]
A
But we're. We're. We're de. Escalating in a different way without. Without kind of the mind center. We're using the heart, the body, and everything else to do that. Yeah, I love that. And just for everybody listening who's not watching, if you're watching, you can see this. But if you're listening, he was looking in my eyes when he said, In 10 minutes, we will be cuddling. And it's outside of the norm, but I'm a little down with it right now. Isn't his voice, honey. Pardon my jokes.
- [34:51]
B
Always down for a good cuddle, Puddle man.
- [34:55]
A
So I want to dive in to another thing I saw, which was mixed into kind of the. The momentum of just the helping you were giving these guys. Because I have a belief, and I even teach that love exists in business. I think a business has an equal, balanced metric where you need to value production and productivity, which, I mean, I think Wall street does that really well. But they're also corporate dickhead robots in most cases, not all. And they crush their humans. Right. And so equally valuing that with the person in the business. And your communication today was beautiful. But some of those guys you knew and some of those guys like me who walked up, you had no idea who I was before. Except I think we'd maybe sat at a table or near each other earlier in the event where I. And you were demonstrating a level of love and intentionality to help, and you were balancing productivity with each person and their needs so quickly, succinctly, and beautifully. I'd love for. You know, I have a core belief love is the meaning of life. And I have another core belief that problems are gifts and guides. And I watched you taking their problems and helping them, like, genuinely, like, with no fucking ego involved and doing it in a loving way. Like, I'd like you to just kind of go into, like, what are your thoughts on love? Its place in the world, Its place that it could exist in business without me going deeper into my thoughts. Because I'm curious how much we align and kind of the subject of love and problems. Because what I watched was beautiful.
- [36:30]
B
Yeah. I mean, for Me. It comes down to the skill of unconditional love. That again, if we go down to parenthood. So now that you've learned this emotional thing, the next time you're in an airport or at Disney World or anywhere where there are a lot of kids, look around and watch. How many parent child interactions are the parent demanding that the child change their emotional state? It's every single one. Every. It's insane. It's like telling kids to stop crying, stop throwing hair. This, that you're so lucky to be here in Disney World. Don't you know we paid a bunch of money for you to be here? And you're like, this kid doesn't even know what money is conceptually. Right. So it's like all this damaging, suppressing, repressing, like the parents feelings are actually more important than the child's feelings.
- [37:11]
A
Justin, I, I almost need you to pause and I think the audience might too because I'm, I'm getting triggered over my past behaviors with my own kids. Like, like that's not just an airport full of others. That's probably an airport full of me and my family too, bro. That's, that's probably 100% of guilty people there.
- [37:24]
B
Yeah.
- [37:25]
A
What. What is. You know, you kind of said the master your skill set of unconditional love.
- [37:29]
B
What.
- [37:30]
A
What is unconditional love? I think that's something missing today.
- [37:33]
B
Yeah. Unconditional love is. You have to understand that anytime you're judging somebody in their behaviors and you're putting a label on it as good, bad, Right? Wrong. You are afraid of the reflection that you're getting from the universe. Right. So I fundamentally believe, my core philosophy, belief, whatever, is that I am having a conversation with Justin through a mirror named Preston. We are the same thing. Fundamentally. I believe that. Right. So until I can get firm on my own unconditional love of self, I can't give that to you. So I'm always going to have some kind of agenda when I'm communicating with you. Right. Like you said, if someone comes to you and you just met them and they start coaching you right away, they're not trying to help you. They're trying to validate their own ego that they are important and they have value to bring and they have something to add to the world, it's a selfish act. But if we can remove the idea of selfish being bad, it's not good bad, right? Wrong. It just is. This is a person who wants love and validation. So he makes you believe he's trying to give you love and Validation. But he's trying to get the mirror to give him the love and validation that he doesn't know how to ask for. So he forces it on you to get it back.
- [38:39]
A
He got a hug later for sure.
- [38:41]
B
Got a hug. There you go.
- [38:42]
A
I loved the love and validation. And this was a, this was a.
- [38:45]
B
Beautiful, very intelligent human being.
- [38:47]
A
For context, guys, for context. Like as we were sitting there as, as, as Justin and I and this other group of men were sitting there, another gentleman walks in and, and I'd made a comment and he immediately, and he's a beautiful guy. He's a brilliant guy too. He immediately says, can I give you feedback on that? And he didn't know anything about me. And, and, and he did give me brilliant feedback that might have been right in somebody else's circumstance. It, it, it wasn't necessarily in mine. But you, you put it so perfectly about this, this beautiful man. He was like, he's on fire and he's using a fire hose to put everyone else out.
- [39:18]
B
Yeah.
- [39:18]
A
And, and, and it, it was fascinating because I've been in that cycle before where I didn't want to hit my own pain.
- [39:26]
B
Yeah.
- [39:27]
A
So it was just so much easier with some of my self help knowledge to go help everybody else that I got a little like, dose of, I guess, emotional Advil.
- [39:34]
B
Yeah.
- [39:34]
A
For my problems by helping them and, and continue. So, so more unconditional love. But like, well, and you're trying to.
- [39:42]
B
Validate your own experience. Right? So like this is a human being and you and me and all these people, we put so much work into this, man. Like the amount of personal growth we've done, the amount of coaches we've worked with and shamans and psychedelics around the world, the shit that we've done. Right. A lot of times you want to sit down?
- [39:56]
A
But Justin, I plead a fifth on that.
- [39:58]
B
Only in countries where it's legal. You know, that's where we have to leave this one. But it's this thing where you're like, I want to. None of us are sure if we're doing it right. Am I doing this right? Did I hire the right coach? Is this really right? So if I can go help you and you go, hey man, you just changed my life. Thanks so much. I now get to be like, oh, okay, I'm doing it right. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to validate our own experience where for me, I'm looking at this through a lens of like, this is literally a mirror. So if you are a mirror for me. I have to treat you like I would treat myself. And the hardest struggle, the hardest journey of my entire life was unconditional love. And that was what I realized through 300 shows a year and TV and all these things is I'm doing this thing. Hey, everybody love me because I did not love myself, period.
- [40:40]
A
Let me ask a question on that. Can you love anyone else more than you love yourself?
- [40:48]
B
No.
- [40:49]
A
I agree 100%. Yeah, 100%. I hear people say, oh, I love my kids more than I love anything else in the world. And I think, I believe it's impossible.
- [41:02]
B
Yes, your capacity to love is directly capped by your capacity to love self. That's the way that this works. If you ever look into, like, RA and the law of one, it is this thing is like, we are. I fundamentally believe that everybody in this room is me. My personal growth, my unconditional love of self becomes unconditional love of other, period. Because everything is a mirror.
- [41:21]
A
What is a way to identify, you know, like, for some of those entrepreneurs out there that are in the scaling, hustling. Like. Like everybody preaches hustle. Like, there's all these gurus that are preaching hustle. And. And I go watch them, and I almost feel bad for them because their energy is just like this energy of exhaustion. Like. Like, you want to try hustling just, you know, instead of using a car run down the highway. Yeah, for sure. Like, good luck. You'll get exhausted. Not just by the other cars, emotionally and physically and everything else, too. So it's kind of a. You know, it's funny because if I'm passionate about something, hustle is a result. But I don't feel exhausted. But passion and love are almost. They're like synchronicities to one another, right? Like, so it took me a long time, and I probably can't articulate it well, to find ways to get out of my own way and fall in love with myself. And the magic there was fucking falling in love. It's called falling. Cause there ain't no control landing, man. Like, you hit the bottom and that's where you get a breakthrough. Some shit breaks, right? But, like, how do people find what's blocking their ability to love themselves? Because so many entrepreneurs need that. It is the biggest thing that I think they need. How did you do that?
- [42:26]
B
It is real Jungian depth psychology and actual shadow work.
- [42:30]
A
So what do you mean, shadow work?
- [42:32]
B
Yeah, we're going to talk about this in New Age spirituality, Shadow work is the most bastardized term we Ever hear especially I come from Austin, the land of spiritual gurus, right? And I said this at the table I was at with you. I'm like, listen, in the land of spiritual gurus, when everything is going great and my life is perfect, I am the ultimate manifester and it's all me because I am God and I create everything. When things are going wrong, I must have been possessed by a dark entity or I had a narcissistic partner and they really damaged me. They don't want to take responsibility. They will only take responsibility for the good, right? So the unconditional love piece is taking responsibility for everything. And what I mean by shadow work is for every Justin, I sat down at 8 and I played the piano and everyone went crazy. This kid is amazing. Oh my God.
- [43:14]
A
Wow.
- [43:14]
B
For every Justin, there's a million kids who sat down, played the piano, their dad came over and slapped them and said, you mother's taking a nap, this piano is not for you. Don't touch that. So what's in our ego is what got us love as a kid. What's in our shadow is what takes away love as a kid.
- [43:28]
A
Oh, wow.
- [43:29]
B
And now we're talking about love. So how do we increase our unconditional love of self? Shadow work, all the things that are in the shadow, right? We only, we tend to only love ourselves for the ego things. Look at how much money I make. Look at my revenue. Look, I was on a TV show, right? It's this thing. I have to love myself when I'm lazy, when I don't get in the cold plunge because I don't fucking feel like it today, when I haven't scaled my business in the last 90 days and there's no growth and I some now I hate myself and I'm just a lazy piece of shit, right? So the example that I use, because everyone knows them and it's easy, is everybody loves to think that David Goggins does hard things, right?
- [44:08]
A
Sure.
- [44:09]
B
The hard thing for David Goggins is to stop running a thousand miles, to stop getting out of bed at 5am, to wake up and say, there are my running shoes. I'm supposed to run 100 miles today. My knees are fucking killing me. I have a headache, I don't feel good, but I am a piece of shit if I don't go run. Does that sound like self love to you?
- [44:28]
A
Absolutely not.
- [44:29]
B
David's hard work is to go back to bed and sleep another two hours and let his body recover.
- [44:35]
A
Wow.
- [44:36]
B
The fastest way to unconditional love is to unpack all the stories that you have about what makes you valuable and what you. This, this is why we do more of it in the Love is why we go make more in the world. It's why we go make more money. It's why we want more real estate or we want more followers and more leads or whatever. So we can satisfy this desire to love ourselves based on metrics. I'm telling you to go under the surface the shit that you never show anybody. And love yourself when you're addicted to porn. Love yourself when you're 300 pounds. Love yourself when your company isn't a shitter. Right. That doesn't mean we accept that place and we don't strive to be better and grow. But if I can better myself from a place of unconditional self love, the world becomes an abundant playground. If the only reason I'm trying to grow is because I hate myself as I am. I can't keep that charade up forever. I will self sabotage my businesses. I will have success for a little while and I'll fall apart. I'll have a romantic relationship and I'll go online and I'll say look at me and my romantic partner. We'll teach you how to be happy too. And pay us for our course thousand dollars. We'll teach you how to communicate. Six months later we're fucking divorced. These are the self sabotage patterns that people don't understand because they haven't done the shadow work.
- [45:49]
A
I have a belief and I'm hearing you articulate it in a different way. And I'm just going to say this real quick on air. I love you bro. You're so fucking amazing.
- [45:58]
B
I love you brother.
- [45:59]
A
But my belief is your worst day. Your worst day. The worst day of your life was the best day of your life. If you look at the way that God intended you to see it and frame it and you find the lesson you were supposed to learn and what you are saying is literally the greatest lesson that, that, that, that can take somebody from wait. Selfish plug problems to profit. And, and, and bro, like wow. I, I can keep you on here for like 12 hours.
- [46:28]
B
Yeah.
- [46:29]
A
And because I think this would just maybe heal the world. I hope millions listen to this episode.
- [46:33]
B
Go around too, brother.
- [46:34]
A
Yeah, but where can people get a daily dose of Justin? Like where can people go for more of this? Because. Because this is what they need. They don't need msnbc, they don't need fox. They need this piece.
- [46:46]
B
Yeah. All my social media is Justin Nalt official. And just shoot Me a DM and we'll talk about it, hop on calls with people, whatever. Whatever we want to do. But there's one piece I lost. I was gonna try to give you something, but I was like, oh, we're now in social media mode. All right. Yeah, just an alt official and just ping me there and I'm happy to connect.
- [47:03]
A
And Justin all, can you spell that out?
- [47:05]
B
Yep. J U S T I N N A U L T Official. Justin Altoff official on all platforms, bro. Oh, I remember. I'm gonna give you this nugget, okay? It's important. So I was teaching some people this at Burning Man. We had a big group of people at Burning man this year, and this is something that Megan and I do that I'll share with the world. It will change everything for you. If you want to learn how to unconditionally love self. But it's hard for you to do. Like, I actually have people stand in the mirror and say, I love you 10 times. It's like, very hard for people to do in the beginning is learning to do that in the world. So Megan and I have a term in our relationship which is, what do you do when you're having a hard time? And then your partner says, ask for love. And then my partner says to me, justin, what do you do when you're having a hard time? And I say, ask for love. So in this world of the Wes Watsons and the David Goggins and the people that will tell you you're a bitch if you don't hustle, blah, blah, sometimes, dude, I get out of bed, I walk downstairs, and there's Megan. And I go, megan. She goes, what? And I go, I need love. Like, listen to my voice, man. Like, listen, I can kill most people with my bare hands. Just so we're clear here, before I use this voice and anyone's like, look at this guy's a bitch. Like, yeah, you think I'm a bitch? Come talk to me. We'll have a conversation about it.
- [48:05]
A
Right? Don't test it.
- [48:07]
B
I will literally stand in the kitchen with Megan and I'll be like, I need love. And she's like, you having a hard time? And I'm like. And she's like, what do you need? And I'm like, can you just tell me that I'm the most handsome man? And you're so glad that you chose me. And you're so glad that you're my partner and you love me and you believe in my ability to provide for you, and you would never choose anyone different and blah, blah. All the things that I'm feeling insecure about, I just brain dump them. And then she looks at me and she goes, yeah. And she holds my face and she says, you're so handsome. I love you so much. I choose you every day. I'm so happy you're my partner. I ask for exactly what I want, and I get it. Universe gives it to me. Just ask for love.
- [48:43]
A
So powerful. So powerful.
- [48:46]
B
Yeah, Right?
- [48:47]
A
As this ends, bro, I'm asking for a hug. I'm gonna tell you I need a hug.
- [48:50]
B
You got it, bro.
- [48:52]
A
Thank you so much for doing this, and thank you for adding value to our community. And I hope you have an amazing day on purpose.
- [48:57]
B
Yeah. Thank you for having me, man. It's been a pleasure.