A (2:50)

Yeah, great. It is nice to be the first one here from a Nobel Prize winning team. Yeah, let me take you back like a few years. I won't dwell like so much on my past, but I think it's also quite cool to get the background story. So. Yeah, so I started my career in physics and to be more precise in particle physics like roughly 15 years ago and I worked at CERN. And working at CERN is like quite similar to what we call now data science. So it does involve analyzing huge data sets. You work with many cross functional teams. You do try to make sense of the, of the chaos around you and you also show insights to the rest of the teams. So this is like a bit of what I did there. And indeed, yeah, I was part of the team that did discover the, the, the Higgs boson which was so exciting. It's not something that happens on an, on a daily basis in physics. It's something that we waited for like years and it was such a great opportunity and such great timing to be there at that time. It was really extremely fascinating. Yeah, so that was like a huge chunk of my life. I worked there maybe for eight years or or so and I actually worked in the same team as Elina, who's our co founder and co CEO. So this is how we met. We actually, yeah, we've actually known each other for more than 2012 years or so, maybe even almost like 15 years now. So I was there in the beginning when natural cycle was born and actually I was one of the first people who also, who also started measuring the temperature on a daily basis to give to Alina, to develop the first version of our algorithm that runs behind our product. So it's something really cool that, that the data that came out of my body was used for the first version of the product. Afterwards we of course had many trials to also validate what we're doing. But this is something that makes it also very personal to me since my data was used for that. So when it was time to leave physics, it was roughly maybe seven or eight years ago, I knew that Natural Cyclist was hiring and I joined as a data scientist actually at Physics first because this was like very close to what I was doing back in physics. But very quickly after joining, like maybe after a year or so I have actually discovered passion for product. I actually had no idea that product was a thing because if you're like working in physics for like almost 10 years, there's like little knowledge of what's outside. So it was a completely new field for, for me and I absolutely fell in love in like solving user problems, building products for them, and especially for the product that's so close to my heart and a product that impacts women health. So this is in a nutshell, my transition from physics to data science and then to product. So I have not looked back since and I cannot imagine doing anything else. Yeah.

B (6:07)

What have you brought with, from your physics background especially you have a very stellar physics background into product. What has helped you? What kind of things do you borrow, bringing it into product management?

A (6:18)

Yeah, quite a few. So working at CERN and working in physics means working with a lot of data, a lot of messy data. So it means working with quite a few complex system. It means working with a large amount of data that you need to actually sort and clean and solve. So it's a lot about solving problems, it's a lot about analytical thinking, it's a lot about dividing a huge problem into smaller chunks and tackling it one by one. So I did bring a lot of this like very structured way of thinking that helps me to organize my team and helps me to organize the, the vast amount of data that we actually work with on a daily basis. And another thing that I also want to mention is more like the systems thinking. So linking back to what I mentioned is that at cern we worked with quite a few teams at the same time and each team works with a different topic. So also trying to see how that connects to each other and also trying to see how it impacts like a bigger picture, diving deep into the small details and small topics, but also having an overview like how it actually connects and how does my work impact like the bigger vision. So yeah, so I think the balance also of like diving into details, seeing the bigger picture, combined with, with an analytical mindset. Those are the, like the biggest things that I brought from my scientific background into product leadership.

B (8:01)

And there's so much good overlap there too. And I love when people talk about systems thinking and product management. Some natural cycles. For people who are not familiar with natural cycles. Can you tell us a little bit about the app, the product, what does it do?

A (8:16)

Definitely, Ashley. So. So I could talk about it for hours. But let me try to summarize in a nutshell, Natural Cycles is an FDA cleared birth control app, but it's actually more than that. It's way more more than that. Even though the birth Control app is our flagship product and it's something that most of our users do. Our mission goes far beyond this aspect of women's health. We try to cover the whole reproductive journey, from preventing a pregnancy to planning a pregnancy, to recovering either from giving birth or from a miscarriage. That's something that unfortunately happens quite often and now we're also expanding into later life stages. So something that is also quite close to our heart is perimenopause. And it's a phase in women's life that's quite overlooked or has been like in the last few years there has been like way more talk about perimenopause and about menopause and it's something that we believe should be talked about even more. And we are building new tools to help women on a daily basis to manage their transition through perimenopause to menopause. So I think that our app is, or we aim for it to be entrusted companion for women across their whole fertility journey with whatever it might be. So some might choose to prevent a pregnancy only some might choose to also plan a pregnancy. We are giving women a choice if they want to use a non hormonal method of birth control. It's really a lot about giving choice for women and for them to take care of their bodies and for them to take control of their bodies.

B (10:03)

There is a very big topic in the United States right now about that as well. And I've seen Natural Cycles and apps like it in the news, especially when it comes to the government who our choices have been more and more restricted here. A lot of news articles talk about how they are going to start. The government's going to start looking at these apps, taking people's data to find out if they had an abortion or if they prevented pregnancies which could lead to legal action. How do you think about, first of all, is any of that true? And how do you think about data privacy when it comes to such a sensitive topic like this? So especially in a political climate like we have today.

A (10:41)

That's an excellent question. It's also a very difficult one and one that's very close to our heart. I think that trust is really fundamental in a product like ours where we like deal with such personal data. So this is something that, that we do on a daily basis. We do try to help our users trust in our app and we do it in a few different ways. So I want to touch upon like a few different topics when it comes to data privacy and data security. We are a paid app which One reason for us being a paid app is that we do not sell our users data. Our users data is in their hands, is under their control, they are in charge of it, they can delete it, they cannot add any data, they don't need to do anything. They're absolutely 100% in control. If they don't want us to use their data for research, they don't have to. It's absolutely all in their hands. All of the practices around data privacy and data security, they are under a NC Secure flagship product in our company. And one of those is also even an advanced identity protection called Go anonymous mode. Should women want to go anonymous, they can. And this means that not even us cannot identify who they are. So in an unlikely, hopefully event of a subpoena from the government, we will not be able to give the users data because we don't know who the data belongs to. So we do try to protect our users and we do see yeah, that there is a shift in the political landscape and we try to address it head on and talk about those things. There are two other aspects that I also want to mention, how we build trust. One is linked to our product being a regulated medical device. So this means that quality is inbuilt into what we do. Everything that we do needs to be validated. It needs to go through a rigorous process of making sure that the product is safe and it performs well, which I think builds the trust towards our users because the FDA framework, it does give us this aspect of trust and also of quality. And last topic I want to touch upon is link to transparency. We do not shy away from difficult conversations, we do think that they should be tackled head on. We want to address that taboo topic. Even if the topic is difficult, I think it's important to talk about it than to hide behind this. Because if we cannot be open and true to ourselves, then how can our users trust us? So I think trust in a product like ours come from a few of those things. So from secure practices, data privacy, from validating the science behind what we do and from being true to ourselves and authentic. And I think it does resonate with our users based on the feedback that we get from them as well.

B (14:02)

What are some examples of the transparency in the hard conversations that you have there?

A (14:07)

I need to think about this topic but I think transparency in those hard conversation. So if I may touch upon, for example unintended pregnancies, this is something that does happen and will happen to anyone who is sexually active. So we do not claim that we are A method of birth control that's 100% effective. We do talk about the unintended pregnancies, even on our social media. We want to be open about this so that women are aware of, because if women are aware that this is a possibility, they might think about their choices. So it is about really tackling those difficult discussions head on and not shying away from it. So probably maybe the most difficult example, but I think also one of the most important ones.

B (14:59)

Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the aspects of trust too, with a product like that that has so much impact on people's lives, like with an unintended pregnancy or something like that, there is the aspect that you were talking about of building the trust into the product, but then also the communication. How do you embed some of those trust capabilities in there so that people understand the app better, know how to use it intendedly, and understand where the limitations are as well?

A (15:26)

Yeah, that's a very good question. When a new user starts with our product, they are presented with features called like Promote product onboarding, where we do explain to them what the product is about, how they should use it, and it's also very much tailored to their individual situation. For example, we do have around 50% of users who start with natural cycles. They have been on hormones before. Since we offer a non hormonal birth control, we have quite a big fraction of users who use hormonal birth control. So when those users come to us, our algorithm is going to be more conservative in giving those red days meaning when users should use protection because the cycle is still regulating after quitting hormones. And we do adjust also to other certain topics, like if women were recently pregnant. Our algorithm also adjusts to that. So we do communicate that quite clearly in the app. We do explain to the user what they should expect from our product and in the first weeks, in the first month of using it. So it's a lot about managing expectations. Our product is not going to deliver 100% on day one because it does take time to get used to it. It does require commitment from the user to measure their temperature or to wear an Oura ring or an Apple watch to measure that temperature. But once they give us a try, they will see that our product is actually a great fit for them. So it's a lot about showing what the product can do if women invest in it. It's a lot about education. So we do offer guides that help women understand what those red days are, what those green days are, when to use protection, when not to use Protection, but also probably most importantly how to learn to listen to their bodies. Because this is another aspect that I wanted to touch upon, that our product aims to work with the woman and not against her. It's meant to help women notice the signals and changes that are happening in their bodies. And I think this only can happen over time. It's not something that we are taught in school. It's not something that someone will tell us, oh, this is the signal you need to learn to try to listen to your body. So I think this is like an amazing product offering from Natural Cycles and it's something that we do keep on hearing from our users that they had no idea what their bodies were doing prior to joining us because it's not something that we learn really. So I think this aspect of education, of building trust through honest comms in the app is something that is quite valuable to our users.

B (18:31)

It's such a untalked about space. I think women's hormones and their bodies and things like that almost taboo, which is unfortunate because of all the things that you're talking about. And our hormones affect us so differently I think than men as well. I was really excited about you talking about perimenopause too because I feel like that's a big discourse and I honestly didn't even know what that was until maybe six months ago. When you think about expanding your offerings and covering those different scope for women, like how are you thinking about what problems to tackle and the education pieces of that for women and how do you kind of fight some of those taboos or we we don't talk about these things.

A (19:06)

That's an excellent question. Yeah, if I may start with perimenopause, this is a natural extension to what our product can bring to the market and what type of value it can bring to the user. We have been working with the NC birth control product for more than 12 years and a couple of years ago we have decided that it's time to go also beyond birth control to cover other aspects of women's health because they are simply not covered. And even if you think about research like medical research, it was mostly done on men historically and then it just should translate or apply to women. So this is also something that we are trying to change by performing research on our users data with their consent and of course anonymized data to advance the knowledge in women's health. We do publish a few scientific articles and peer reviewed journals on a yearly basis. So it's a way of us to also give back to the to the to the scientific community in this sense.

B (20:21)

Looking to level up your product management career, I started Product Institute to help you do just that. Trusted by over 15,000 students in Fortune 500 companies worldwide. Our seven courses cover everything from product foundations to to advance product strategy. Right now you can get our bundle of all courses for 40% off with code learn2025 go to productinstitute.com to learn more about our options for individuals and teams. With all the scientific research that you're talking about as well, it sounds like your company. Even though we talk about as an app, it almost sounds like it's a scientific research company too. How do the product managers work with the scientists and data scientists as well, other scientists? What does your team look like and how do you all collaborate together?

A (21:01)

Great. Yeah. We are founded in science since quite a few of us who work at Natural Cycles are scientists, are physicists. Quite a few of us have also a PhD. So like doing research and doing science is in our heart. It's something that we do on a daily basis. And it was a no brainer that we should also go into research since this is also what we did as particle physicists and at cern. It's just now we are doing a different type of research and on a different type of data, right? And I find this so cool that we can just transfer the skills that we have from science to Natural cycles by using the same tools and just working on a different type of data. We do work with quite a few medical advisors to also discuss which topics are the most relevant for us to focus on. Focus on. And internally we also have a team of roughly 10 data scientists who we work actually on a regular basis. Whenever we start to think about a new feature or a new product to build or a new feature within an existing product, first we discuss okay, what is the science behind the feature? What is the data that we need to collect to release this feature that will be founded in science and in data? So with every feature that we work on, we do gather data with our science team. Then we talk about analyzing it. So what is interesting in there? What is it that can be turned into a feature for our users? And for example, when we launched our MC postpartum mode last year, prior to launching it, we have launched quite a few surveys in the app to also collect the feedback from women who have recently given birth so that we can get their feedback and see how we should address this mode in the app based on the real experience. And this is something that we collaborate with our scientists so that we can make sure that the data that we get actually makes sense. We also collaborate with our scientists like after we launch a feature in the app and we want to for example, do effectiveness studies on postpartum women. So how effective is natural cycles in the postpartum period while women are breastfeeding or not and they have just given birth? So really science is at the core of everything that we do. We have a very much data driven and analytical mindset and I think that building products there are science backed. It's something that resonates with women and resonates with the medical community out there and it's something that we are extremely proud of because it's also like grounds us as a worthy company, I think.

B (24:00)

How do you think about prioritization based on customer feedback and requests versus some of these science things, especially in a space where women might not be aware of some of the problems that they have or they're experiencing. Like what we were talking about with perimenopause. Right. I imagine if a lot of women don't know about perimenopause, they're not going to be like, hey, can you like help me through perimenopause? How do you think about where do we prioritize like direct feedback versus what's scientifically proven or introduce these new concepts to people?

A (24:32)

That's an excellent question and I would love to have the answer to it because it is all about balance, right? We cannot only listen to our users, we cannot only do what our medical advisors want us to do. It always needs to be combined and thought through and we do need to find the balance like the user experience versus like the medical data collection. We do collect user feedback in quite a few ways in the app. We do collect it via in app feedback, via surveys, via app store reviews, via nps. We do a lot of user research. So this gives us like a sentiment of what users would like to see and we analyze it on a regular basis. We do also quite a bit of like market research and also research on non users so that we can actually like open up our product to our to like other use cases that we don't cover right now, which is touching upon to what you mentioned, that maybe our users who are roughly like 30 or 35, they're not thinking about perimenopause yet, but others who are maybe around 40 they are. And we're also managing it with feedback from our medical advisory board that is specialized in various different subjects and they do give us quite important input on the features and the topics that we should manage. So it is about looking at what might bring more value to our users. It's about trying things out. It's also about maybe launching a very small feature at first and seeing how it's going to play out there. And it's something. If we should invest more time, we do have this great opportunity that we have a software product and we can make changes on a regular basis. So we can launch something with one app version, see how it plays out. If we get any feedback, we can experiment a lot. And if we don't see any traction, if we don't see that it doesn't bring value, we can shift and we can do something else. So this is like a great advantage of a software product that we can use in our daily work.

B (26:54)

When it comes to being a highly regulated app, too, with the fda, how do you balance that experimentation that you're talking about versus the regulation requirements or the experimentation requirements on that end, let's say the trial requirements to make sure that things actually work okay?

A (27:12)

That's a very good question. People often think that if you're a regulated medical device and if you need to follow like a very strict process, it can slow you down. But I think for us it's actually the opposite, which I think it's pretty cool. We have a very well defined quality management system that has been with us since the beginning. So it's like a foundation of what we do. Whenever we tackle a new feature, we can look at the product requirements at the risk. So we do have a baseline to start with, which is an excellent thing to have. Also, when it comes to being a regulated medical device, we do need to document quite a bit, which also might seem like a hurdle. But if you have it incorporated in your process, it's actually very seamless. And it does help to document your decisions, user insight, feedback that we get so that you can refer to it later on. And we do innovate, actually, quite a bit. One aspect that I also wanted to touch upon is that we do have a great culture in the company where everyone feels like they really can contribute to the success of the company. And if someone feels like they can impact the mission or the product or the vision, they will be more likely to innovate and to come up with great ideas. And we have an amazing team that does that basically on a daily basis. So when we do have a new product and we innovate on it, we do bring also our compliance and our regulatory teams early on and they Also shape and they also can help us shape that product. So it's really working together with the regulatory team. It is not a blocker. It actually it just provides us with a framework that enables the innovation. And I really believe that it shapes our product into being a trustworthy product and a product that our users can have confidence in because. Because we're a regulated medical device.

B (29:24)

How does your product team work with that quality team? Because in so many companies I've seen it where it's like we have this idea but now we have to throw it over to legal to get approved and we're going to wait until it goes into this black hole forever and then maybe one day it'll come out and they'll tell us yes, or they'll be like, this is way too risky and we're going to cut down on everything. And you can't say this and you have to be very specific on that, like how do you build that collaboration and like how did you structure it to. To not be that?

A (29:52)

That's an excellent question. I cannot imagine having the culture that you described. It would be quite frustrating to have. So I can tell you that we do not have that. We have quality assurance members within our team that work alongside of product development and they do flag to us early if we try to do something too risky or too out there. Our quality assurance is like inbuilt into product development processes. Whenever we brainstorm like about a new idea, they are part of that brainstorming. They are part of our, our team meetings where we present like new designs or new features and they give us feedback. So we take that into account right from the beginning. We don't work in silos that first the product team works and then we hand it over for sign off and then it comes back after a month of limbo. We work alongside the regulatory and the compliance team with like frequent meetings and things and also just talking to each other. We are roughly 130 or 140 people, so it's still manageable and it's something that we managed to carry over from being like 50 people to 1:30 or to 140. So I think we can scale even further by having this open way of working and by communicating early on and aligning with everyone, which I think is extremely important in a company like ours.

B (31:30)

Definitely. And those are the ones I see that are way more successful. So I'm glad to hear that you've got it so embedded. Magda, when you're looking at the emerging trends in the femtech space and where we're going. What gets you excited and what do you see for the future?

A (31:46)

Oh, a great question. So a few things that I want to mention and that I've seen in the past, past few years. First one is AI. I don't think that we can have this conversation without touching on AI. And there is a huge potential with using AI AI, but as we already mentioned, trust and safety is non negotiable for our users. We do use AI within our company with the processes that we have and also in our product. But it's not here to replace science. It's not here to, to to talk to the users instead of us. It's here to work alongside us. So I think AI has a great potential when it comes to personalizing the app experience, to bringing insights to the users in a more contextual way. So definitely like the AI trend and being more personalized. Second thing that I wanted to mention that's also quite big lately is wearables. Right? Everyone is talking about wearables. Is it smart rings, smart watches, patches, A lot of that's out there. And it's something that we actually embraced quite early in our product. We have started as a product with just a thermometer so women had to wake up in the morning around the same time and measure temperature. We have seen quite early from their feedback that this might not be great user experience, especially if you have a small baby at home or a dog that needs to go out. So we have invested in wearables and we have seen such an amazing feedback from our users. We are integrating now with an OURA ring and Apple watch and more are coming in the future. It's just such a seamless experience and there's way more that we can do with the wearable data. And maybe another subject that I want to touch upon is not only talking about fertility, but talking about women's health holistically. Right. Because I think that everything is connected. Brain, hormones, heart, lifestyle, it's all connected. And we really don't want to just limit ourselves to this like one part of women's health. But we want to go beyond fertility and address the women's health in a holistic way. So give women's tool to manage whatever their experience symptom, if it's perimenopause or if it's cramps before their period comes. So just to give them like tools to manage that and to again be more in tune with their bodies. So this is I think what we can do for women out there. And I think that, that our company is ahead by blending all of these three areas. So the wearable science being more a personalized app and also like the holistic care that really tries to take care of the woman and have the woman at a center in the focus.

B (34:56)

It's a very customer centric approach which I really like with women at the center. Magda, my last question for you. If you could go back in time to the beginning of your career and give yourself some advice, what would it be?

A (35:10)

What would it be? I'm a self taught product manager. I didn't study business or I didn't study product management. I come from physics background. So if I knew that I wanted to start with product management, I would have told myself to, to lead with openness, to be transparent, to communicate often and about anything and to, to trust your gut. Because it's something that I think we are so data driven and we do, I do believe in data of course and but I also don't want to lose myself in the data like we do have to manage it with this human touch. So I think maybe trying to apply this gut feeling a bit and speak and be confident you know what you're doing and trust yourself. I think that being confident and open in some cases also vulnerable because I think this is also a topic that's not talked about a lot. If you like talk about your failures, if you talk about your mistakes, it resonates a lot more with your team and with your users than like always trying to be perfect. And I try to be perfect when I was younger and earlier in my career and it didn't go that well. So being more true to yourself is also something that I would, that I would have liked to have as a, as an advice when I started because I think it helps also to manage a team and to lead a product.

B (36:49)

That's great advice. I am a recovering perfectionist as well. So that resonates deeply. Magda, thank you so much for being on the podcast. If people want to learn more about Natural Cycles and also your work, where can they go?

A (37:02)

Yes, head to natural cycles.com if you want to visit our website or at Natural Cycles if you want to go to Instagram or to TikTok and you'll find all about us. And if you want to follow me personally, you can find me on LinkedIn and I'm happy to connect.

B (37:20)

We will put all of those links to Natural Cycles and to Magda's profile from LinkedIn on our show notes@productthinkingpodcast.com thank you all for listening to the Product Thinking podcast. We'll be back next Wednesday with another Dear Melissa, where I answer all of your product management questions. If you have a question for me, go to dear melissa.com and let me know what it is. Also like and subscribe so that you never miss a podcast. We'll see you next time.