Markets Are Betting the Iran War Is Over — Is it?

Summary

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Prof G Markets: "Markets Are Betting the Iran War Is Over — Is It?"

Podcast: Prof G Markets (Vox Media Podcast Network)
Hosts: Ed Elson, Robert Armstrong (Financial Times, Unhedged), John Mowry (NFJ Investment Group)
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the market’s reaction to the sudden US-Iran ceasefire and asks a central question: are markets too quick to bet the Iran conflict is over? Hosts Ed Elson, Robert Armstrong, and guest John Mowry dissect how war, oil prices, earnings, inflation, and Fed policy are interacting — and what that means for investors right now. The conversation breaks down both immediate movements in equities, energy, and rates, plus the broader risks and investment opportunities as the ceasefire shows cracks.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Market Movements on Ceasefire News

Timestamps: [02:09] – [04:21]

• The S&P 500 and Nasdaq saw relief rallies of nearly 2.5%; the Dow climbed over 1,300 points.
• Brent crude plunged from $110 to $90, then settled at $95, while the dollar slipped.
• Meta stock surged 8% after its AI release, but broader moves were linked to geopolitics.
• The US and Iran announced a two-week ceasefire. Iran agreed to reopen the Strait of Hormuz after US threats, temporarily easing global tension.
• Early cracks appeared: Iran again restricted tanker passage following Israeli action in Lebanon, and both Iran and Israel disagreed whether Lebanon was covered by the ceasefire.

Quote:
"The major indices rose on news of the ceasefire... However, the ceasefire is already showing cracks."
— Ed Elson [02:09]

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2. Multiple Compression and Market Relief

Timestamps: [04:21] – [06:05]

• John Mowry explains: Multiples, not earnings, drove stock declines—estimates have even risen, particularly in tech.
• Relief rally tied to hopes that lower oil prices will ease CPI, clearing the way for Fed cuts.
• Emphasizes the chain between energy prices → inflation → Fed rate decisions → asset prices.

Quote:
"Earnings are holding up, but multiples were not... This was purely based on an exogenous shock."
— John Mowry [04:21]

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3. Is This Really a “Taco” Moment?

Timestamps: [07:02] – [09:09]

• Armstrong is skeptical about using "taco" (a term for Trump’s pattern of threats and retreats) here; global conflicts are too complex and multilateral.
• Trump can't simply "flip a switch" as with domestic tariff threats. The result is more unpredictable and markets should treat it differently.

Quote:
"Nobody seemed to tell the Israelis that the ceasefire said that they shouldn't bomb Lebanon... Here, he's tangled up in a very complex multilateral situation."
— Robert Armstrong [07:02]

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4. Are Markets Underestimating Inflation Risks?

Timestamps: [09:09] – [10:43]

• Stock markets have nearly bounced back; oil remains far above pre-war levels.
• Armstrong warns: The risk of sustained or spiking energy prices pushing inflation and stalling growth is being underpriced.
• Logistics in the Strait of Hormuz will take months, not weeks, to normalize, meaning potential for lingering inflation/growth headwinds.

Quote:
"The stock market is almost fully recovered... Oil's at 96 after falling 17%. We started the war at $65... This is a delicate situation and things could go wrong in the strait."
— Robert Armstrong [09:38]

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5. Supply Shock vs. Demand-Driven Inflation

Timestamps: [10:43] – [13:39]

• Mowry: Oil’s spike is a supply-driven inflation, not demand (contrast with 2007–2008).
• The real test: Will the Fed “look through” a supply shock? Higher oil acts like a regressive tax, but may not hit consumers as hard post-pandemic thanks to learned inflation “tolerance.”
• If the Fed cuts rates despite stubborn CPI due to supply shocks, market relief could continue.

Quote:
"What I mean by that is right now we have supply driven inflation on the oil side... The question to me is, will the Fed look through a supply shock?"
— John Mowry [12:53]

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6. Fed’s Dilemma: Inflation vs. Growth

Timestamps: [13:39] – [14:10]; [17:43] – [20:11]

• Armstrong: Powell faces a “damn delicate game.” Cutting rates too soon risks inflation perception; not cutting hurts consumers.
• Growth risks could outweigh inflation risks; layoffs could cascade if the oil shock persists, especially given the current soft job market.

Quote:
"If the market gets the impression that you're being soft on inflation, you're playing with fire... it's a damn delicate game."
— Robert Armstrong [13:39]

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7. Impact of Elevated Oil on Growth, Consumer, and Recession Risk

Timestamps: [20:11] – [21:29]

• Ed Elson connects oil and input costs to possible recession: "That's a recession. That's where my mind goes...”
• Mowry: Duration of oil spike is key (“the fly in the ointment”), but much depends on how long Iran disruptions last and whether supply chains adapt.

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8. America’s New Oil Position & Fracking’s Role

Timestamps: [23:28] – [25:25]

• Mowry: The US, thanks to fracking, is now the world’s biggest oil producer, capable of flexing supply if prices remain high.
• But: Drillers need price certainty, not just short-term spikes, to increase production.

Quote:
"America is the best equipped... to turn on energy supply. And that's unique... something different in the global economy."
— John Mowry [24:07]

Armstrong:
"Somebody deciding whether to put a rig up needs certainty... If it's $150 this week, they're not going to put the rig up. They need to know it'll be $150 in three months."
— Robert Armstrong [25:25]

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9. How Should Investors React to Presidential Rhetoric?

Timestamps: [26:26] – [29:33]

• Mowry: "There's rhetoric and there's policy." Avoid trading on tweets; focus on underlying company fundamentals and actual regulatory changes.
• Both guests agree: Emotional response to presidential social media is a trap for investors.

Quote:
"If you try to manage money based on rhetoric... that's a really poor way to run money."
— John Mowry [27:22]
"Trump's superpower is causing people to feel strong emotions... stepping away from that is powerful."
— Robert Armstrong [29:33]

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10. Where Are the Opportunities? Small and Mid-Cap Value

Timestamps: [30:13] – [33:47]

• Mowry highlights small and mid-cap stocks—Russell 2000 and mid-cap indices up significantly, likely due to rate sensitivity and relief.
• Rotation away from crowded “Mag 7” trades; look for stocks with pricing power and beaten-down multiples with strong fundamentals.
• Armstrong: Mid-cap and select European stocks remain at discounts, and even giants like Microsoft may be underappreciated after recent selloffs.

Quotes:
"There are going to be companies that are able to pass through inflation easier than others... those that have had multiple compression in this environment are the opportunities."
— John Mowry [23:28]
"Microsoft is like the black mold of the American economy... once it’s in your house, there's no getting it out... so I'm not betting against Microsoft at 20 times earnings."
— Robert Armstrong [32:59]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On market psychology:
  "If money is evil, then that building is hell."
  — Ed Elson [02:09]

• On the perpetual volatility from global tension:
  "It's going to be hard for us to flex if we don't know what the hell's going on."
  — Robert Armstrong [25:25]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ceasefire & Market Reaction: [02:09] – [06:05]
• Multiples, Earnings, & Relief Rally: [04:21] – [06:05]
• Taco Commentary & Market Psychology: [07:02] – [09:09]
• Sustained Inflation Risks: [09:09] – [13:39]
• Fed’s Tightrope & Growth Risks: [13:39] – [20:11]
• Recession Logic & Duration of Oil Shock: [20:11] – [21:29]
• Oil Market Dynamics & US Energy Dominance: [23:28] – [25:25]
• Policy vs. Rhetoric for Investors: [26:26] – [29:33]
• Investment Opportunities Amid Volatility: [30:13] – [33:47]

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Conclusion

The episode underscores how geopolitics, energy supply, and central bank policy are dynamically entwined, with the ceasefire merely a temporary patch rather than resolution. Despite relief rallies, unresolved supply risks continue to cast a shadow, and investors should focus on fundamentals, policy, and pockets of value—especially in unloved small/mid-caps and select high-quality tech. Above all, avoid emotional responses to political drama and instead watch for real economic signals.

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Transcript

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[Casual Commentator / Guest]

K Pop Demon Hunters Haja Boy's breakfast meal and Hunt Tricks Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

It is our larger honor.

[Brene Brown]

No really stop.

[Casual Commentator / Guest]

You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

and participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Today's number 54. That's how many years it's been since we last went to the moon. Back then many thought that by 2026 we'd have flying cars and space hotels. We don't have that. But we do have NFTs.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

Money market matter.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

If money is evil, then that building is hell. Welcome to Prof. G Markets. I'm Ed elson. It is April 9th. Let's check in on yesterday's market vitals. The major indices rose on news of the ceasefire. More on that in a second. Brent Crude plummeted, the dollar fell and Meta stock popped more than 8% after releasing its new AI model Muse Spark. Okay, what else is happening? The US and Iran agreed to a two week ceasefire, making yet another taco. Tuesday, the two countries came to an arrangement just hours after Trump threatened to annihilate Iran. Under the deal, the US to suspend strikes and Iran said it would reopen the Strait of Hormuz. Markets celebrated the news. The S&P 500 and the Nasdaq surged nearly 2 1/2% and the Dow jumped more than 1300 points on Wednesday. Meanwhile, crude fell from 1:10 to $90 overnight before settling around $95. However, the ceasefire is already showing cracks. Iran halted oil tanker passage through the strait after Israel attacked Lebanon. Iran and Pakistan claim the deal covers Lebanon and Israel say it doesn't. Iran's parliament speaker also claimed the US has already violated three clauses of the proposal. The Iranian God says it's keeping its finger on the trigger ahead of talks with the US Scheduled for Friday. Okay, lots to dive into here. We're going to discuss this move from Trump and what it means for markets. We are joined by Robert Armstrong, commentator for the Financial Times and author of the Unhedged newsletter, as well as John Mowry, Chief Investment Officer of NFJ Investment Group. Thank you both for joining me. John, I'm just going to start with you because last week you and I discussed this and towards the end of our conversation you said you think he's going to. You didn't say the word taco, but you said that he's not going to go through with this. And that is what happened. Let's just start with your reactions to what happened in this ceasefire and how the markets reacted.

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

Well, you know, I'll start by kind of, you know, simplifying what we were seeing as we kind of went into this week. Earnings are holding up, but multiples were not. And to me, that's really the story because if anything, estimates have gone higher and you were getting the tech sector at the lowest multiple going back to 2022. So this was really about multiple compression. And this is all pointing to what happened in the oil markets and how that subsequently feeds into the CPI and how that subsequently feeds into the Fed's path for rate expectations. And as those expectations got pushed back, you started to see the multiples compress more and more and more, even though there wasn't fundamental deterioration in the underlying stock. And I think it's a real key point because I think a lot of times when people see sell offs, they think, hey, you know, that's because, you know, companies are doing poorly. That happens Sometimes, but in this case, this was purely based on an exogenous shock. And, and I think that all was trickling into how the Fed would move with interest rate cuts and those expectations. So, you know, you're getting multiples really down to some of the lowest levels we've seen in many stocks in four or five years. So I'm not surprised at all to see the relief rally today because we got some clarity potentially on opening the straight, which is 20% of supply, as we talked about last week. So all of those things trickle into, okay, if oil prices come in, then that's going to potentially lessen the impact on the cpi and that will allow for the Fed to potentially revisit what the expectation for the market was, which is multiple rate cuts over the next 12 months.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Right. That seems to be the hope and the expectation, at least after the ceasefire was announced, that if oil price, if we have a ceasefire, if the Strait of Hormuz is open, then that means the oil prices are going to come down. Then that means we're going to see lower inflation than we expected, which means that the Fed is not going to hike rates or at least will maybe continue with the rate cutting cycle. I mean, I appreciate how you lay out how it all trickles down to asset prices ultimately, but the big question appears to be, or at least is to me, is it really closed? Or, excuse me, is it really open? Is the straight going to remain open? Is this ceasefire over? Rob, I'm going to turn it to you because you actually created the term taco. As I like to remind people, over and over again, people are calling this a taco. Was this a taco? And what do you think this means for the markets going forward?

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

As much as I enjoy my pathetically small kind of fame I have for inventing this term, I don't think it applies very well in wartime. This is a term that made a lot of sense when we were dealing with domestic policy, specifically tariffs, where Trump was really in charge so he could make a grotesque threat and withdraw it. And the resulting kind of wave rolling through markets, you could trade here. He's tangled up in a very complex multilateral situation, as we've just seen demonstrated today. Like, nobody seemed to tell the Israelis that the ceasefire said that they shouldn't bomb Lebanon. Somebody bombed that Saudi pipeline today, the Hormuz Strait alternative. So it's not a situation where Trump can flip a switch anymore. And I think so. I think it's very different now. Did he back down in general? Well, the Iranians have come to the table and at least nominally agreed under certain conditions for the strait to be open. So did he get nothing? Did he back down for nothing? I don't think it's that clear. So I'm gonna sort of argue against myself and say tacko doesn't quite fit here. I do also wanna mention though, I think John's point about multiples is very to the point. I mean, it's very interesting in this context that estimates, earnings estimates have just been rising steadily through this whole war. And like the stock is, that's the reason that multiples are down so much is not just the stock prices have calmed down, but earnings estimates are up. Right. And so there's nothing like the estimates for companies. What they're pricing in doesn't incorporate any of the damage that higher oil price might do to growth or consumption. Right. That's not in there. So, you know, I think we're in a situation where different parts of the market are sending different messages. You know, it's an interesting moment.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Yeah. You wrote in your newsletter, you said, quote, will the truth hold? Markets have decided that the glass is half full. Oil prices fell hard and Asian stocks froze. On the News Unhedged, which is your newsletter, that's you guys. So basically, Rob, Unhedged still believes investors are underpricing the possibility that sustain sustained high energy prices will push inflation higher and growth lower. Could you elaborate on that point, please, Rob?

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

Let me just lay it out in terms of a simple contrast. The stock market is almost fully recovered to where it was at the end of February. Not all the way, but I think it's within a few percentage points. Oil's at 96 after falling 17%. We started the war at $65. So all is not back to the status quo ante in the oil market. And we've already seen today that this is a delicate situation and that things could go wrong in the strait. And even on top of that, when I talk to oil traders, they tell me it's going to take, even in the best case scenario, it's going to take a while for traffic through the strait to normalize. Months, not weeks. Right. So you know how sensitive the US economy is to high oil prices. We can debate, you know, but I think there is a threat, not only an inflation threat, but a threat to growth and that it's probably a bit underpriced here. Yeah.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

John, what do you make of that argument?

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

Well, I couldn't agree with Rob more in terms of, you know, it's going to take time for you know, ships to start running through the Strait again. So I completely agree with that. Markets will move ahead of that. So I think as an equity investor, you know, we have to be thinking about where markets will be before that occurs because equity markets are going to discount that quickly. So I think waiting for the headlines is always a challenge with, with investing in terms of slowing growth. I would also agree, you know, this is the real risk because, you know, higher oil prices are a regressive tax, meaning that that is a tax on, you know, everyone up and down, really, the global economy. It's not just Americans, it's everyone. And you know, the point I would make about a regressive tax around oil, I think it's interesting because I think Covid really shaped people's, reshaped people's view on what costs were tolerable because the inflation was just so egregious. I mean, we had the highest inflation since 1980. And when I think about how people tolerated that, I mean, I think it's been kind of amazing as an equity investor, but also as I look at how just the consumer dealt with higher inflation, from hamburgers to cars to houses, and everyone thought that that was going to push the economy into a weaker position and it ended up being much more resilient. So my expectation is that this time, because consumers are, I think, better equipped to deal with the inflationary effects that they learned from COVID I think that this could actually not be a mechanism that slows the economy quite as much. I think the real question in my mind tying back to the Fed is, okay, you've got hot inflation and you've got shock inflation. And those are two very different things. One is demand driven, one is supply driven. What I mean by that is right now we have supply driven inflation on the oil side. Back in 2007, 2008, oil was ripping because emerging markets were ripping. China was getting ready for the Olympics. They couldn't get enough coking steel from Canada to build bridges, highways. So that was a very different type of oil spike that we saw when Goldman came out and called for it to go to 200 back, I believe in 2008. This is supply driven. And the question to me is, will the Fed look through a supply shock? Because to Rob's point, if anything, there's a tax on the consumer. So you make the case that actually you need to lower rates even more, even though the CPI might tick up. Because this is not because the economy's running hot, it's because you're taxing all of the global consumers around the world.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Yeah, it's a really interesting point. It gets to the point of, I mean, it almost doesn't matter how we feel about it. What matters is how Jerome Powell feels about it.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

And he's got an unpleasant job right now. Now for reasons John just made very clear. You know, he's getting it coming and going. And, you know, I don't envy him. Right, right. Because on the one hand, of course, you should look through it. Right. You can't print molecules and consumers are already getting hurt. At the same time, if the market gets the impression that you're being soft on inflation, you know, you're, you're playing with fire on that side too. So it's a damn delicate game. And I don't, I don't envy the guy at all.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Stay tuned for more of this panel after the break. And if you're enjoying the show, please follow our new Prof. G Markets YouTube channel. The link is in the description.

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[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

It was indeed. You surprised me with Virgin Atlantic upper class tickets to London.

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[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Flat seats, that's the key. Flat seats, exactly. Had the four course meal, got my champagne, very delicious. Enjoyed the food and the journey home. The journey home was great. I went to the Virgin Atlantic LHR clubhouse. That's the Heathrow clubhouse. Heathrow Clubhouse was awesome. Got myself a coffee, headed over to the meditation pod that they call the Soma Dome. Kind of felt like a sort of spaceship where you relax and think nice thoughts. So I did that for a little bit. Then we went over to the wing, which are these acoustically sealed booths where you could do some work. You could even record a podcast. I didn't do that, but maybe I should have. It was a very enjoyable experience.

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[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

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[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

We're back with Profg Markets. It sounds like we believe that ultimately when it comes to markets, I mean, there are many reasons why this is important for reasons totally aside from markets. But it seems as though the big implication is what this ultimately does to inflation and what those inflation expectations do in terms of the Fed's decisions. And that seems a little bit stupid when you say it out loud, but ultimately it does seem like, like that is what's going to determine the markets over the next year or so.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

No, I would say there is a second channel.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Okay.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

The first channel, which John just described brilliantly, is that channel that leads to what the Fed does. The other channel is though, that's the inflation channel. The other channel is growth. So, yeah, we put a regressive tax on consumers in a economy where there is not as much fiscal stimulus as there was in, you know, in, in 2020, where the job market is not getting worse, but it's a little bit squishy already, right? No hire, no fire. It's not dynamic, where there's just a little bit noise about credit problems in Areas like private credit or consumer credit among poor consumers. Then you say, okay, regressive tax on the poorest consumers. You know, real incomes done goes down, consumption comes down a little bit. Companies start to feel the pressure. You know what a company does when it feels pressure. I got better to protect my margins. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to fire someone, right? Save a little bit of money. And you can see where this is going. And by the way, I should emphasize, I think John's optimism is well placed. I'm playing out the right hand, 10% of the probability distribution that there's a cascade from this regressive tax to lower consumption, to companies cutting fat, to the job market cracking, and all of a sudden you're in a recession. Even though the American economy is not that sensitive to oil prices, you get this kind of crazy cascade in an economy that's a tiny bit mushy at one end anyway, you could see that being important. Knock on wood. None of that will happen. I think the highest probability is none of that would happen. But you can see that, that series or that kind of series of dominoes falling.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

It's very clear to me how that would all play out. I mean, that's at least where my mind initially goes here. It's like, okay, we've had these escalations in Iran. Yes, the Strait of Hormuz is supposedly open now, but they're also charging millions of dollars for every ship that passes through. And then they're also closing it every other second in Bitcoin, which is a whole other thing to talk about. But it seems to me that this generally leads to elevated prices. At a general level. No, we're not going to have $150, $200 a barrel of oil. But certainly it seems like oil prices are elevated. Certainly it seems like gas prices are elevated. Certainly it seems like fertilizer prices are elevated, leading to elevated food prices, et cetera. And we are now seeing inflation expectations from various institutions. We were looking at bank of America, who put inflation above 4% by the end of the year. Does that then lead to lower growth, which then leads to more layoffs? Because that's what companies are gonna decide is the right thing to do in that environment, which ultimately sounds like, okay, that's a recession. That's where my mind goes at least. But, John, would you take issue with my mind going in that direction?

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

No, that's. I mean, look, that's the right logical sequence. The, the, the fly in the ointment, though. Is what is the duration of elevated oil prices. And so that's what's going on. Right, that's, that's why, I mean there's, there's pain points globally with what's going on with the strait because of the 20% supply that goes through it. I mean we don't buy any oil from Iran and China is the one that buys all the oil from Iran. I think 80% are plus. So this isn't about getting oil from Iran. This is about the, the global supply network, which ironically is very similar to what the tariffs were about. That was global supply network. And ironically that was very much what Covid was about. That was the shutting off of global supply networks. And so Americans are getting a real taste of what globalization did in terms of supply chain management. I think that the way you have to navigate this though is there are going to be companies that are able to pass through inflation easier than others. And as an investor, when you see these large gaps between earnings expectations and multiple compression, that's an opportunity. That's where you see opportunity. And that's why you had the massive relief rally. I mean the weaker companies today bounce. Like for example, home builders bounced hard today. That's great. The earnings profile on home builders is bad. It's not good. And so it's like, would I want to go out and buy home builders today? No, it's like, well, they are up 5% today. It's like, that's great. There's a lot of other areas that were up 5% today with really good fundamentals that make sense why they're getting a re rate. Because there's been no break in the fundamentals and we're just entering earnings season so we're going to get a better read. But I couldn't agree more that all these things ultimately do trickle down and are going to impact how the companies think about their capex spend, their hiring, they're firing all of that. But ultimately the companies that are best equipped to deal, that have pricing power and those companies that have had multiple compression in this environment are the opportunities for investors today.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

The only thing I think that's. You've nailed it there. The only thing I would add, huge difference between $100 oil and $150 oil. And another huge difference again between 150 and 200 and 200 is imaginable. By the way, in inflation adjusted terms, we were 200 in 2008 before that that crisis happened. So like if we, you know, I think most of the economists I talk to the Math on this stuff is too hard for me to do. But the economists I talk to say you can live 120, 130, 140. You get much higher above that. Then you see the economy's sensitivity to the price of oil at that point. But that's a far way off, which is some reason for optimism.

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

I could not agree more. You push oil toward that 200 mark, the pain point gets exponential. What is so different today because of the fracking technology, which was actually invented. I'm sitting here in Dallas, it was invented for Texas. The US Is now the largest oil producer in the world. You go back to 1970s, that was very different. When we had oil inflation, the US was in a very different place. The Baker Hughes rig count, which we keep an eye on, has not ticked up. But to the extent that oil prices stay elevated, it's going to be interesting to see how America can flex its new energy dominance. I don't think people fully appreciate the dominance that America has with energy. And to the extent that America really wants to push this, we obviously can release strategic reserves from Cushing, Oklahoma. But that's a Band Aid. The real lever, the real lever is that America is the best equipped, because of land rights and topography, to turn on energy supply. And that's unique. And that's something different in the global economy that we have not seen really in our lifetime.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

I mean, we've had a lot of great reporting in the FT by my colleagues from down in Texas and other parts of the shale patch in the US and the issue for them is, I think you're right. I mean, this, like, at what point do we turn the taps on? But somebody who's deciding whether to put a rig up or not needs certainty that's true. You know, it's like if it's $150 this week, they're not going to put the rig up. They need to know it's going to be $150 in three months. Right. When the rig is finally up. They don't want to wake up that morning in August and find out we're back at $75, right where they pumping gas at a loss. So, like, it's going to be hard for us to flex if we don't know what the hell's going on. Right, right. And so that, you know, we need, you know, the oil economy, not to mention, you know, people who inshore boats going through the Strait of Hormuz, crews of ships. We need some visibility into the future in order to invest, you know, to get this thing going again. So we'll see how that goes.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

This brings up a point that I'd be interested to hear your answer to, John, because, I mean, we have spent pretty much our entire lives over the past week basically just looking at what this. This guy in the White House says on. On social media. And it seems like that's. It seems like we have to. I mean, if you want to understand what is going to happen, I mean, it seems as though you kind of have to be very plugged into how the President is talking about what's happening in Iran and what he's putting out on social media, because that's how he communicates. And I'd just be interested as a wealth manager, as an investor, is that something that you're focusing on? And if so, like, to what extent, like, how. How frequently and how seriously must you take the President's tweets when it comes to, say, bombing. Bombing Iran?

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

So I would say it's, you know, there's rhetoric and then there's policy. You know, if you try to manage money based on rhetoric, that's. I would. I would. I would. I would argue against that. I think that's a really poor way to run money. You know, policy is what I pay attention to. I pay attention to what regulations are. I pay attention to what new policies are coming out, you know, what. You know, what is in the pipeline. And then I pay attention to what the companies are saying, what the earnings are doing. I mean, you. I mean, the companies that make up America, this is the thermometer of America's health. You know, the government sits there, but it. You know, it exists because the American companies pump out earnings. You know, it's pulling those tax dollars, and then it's creating policy and going around the world and doing what it does. So I'm focused on the heartbeat of the capitalist model, which is the companies. And so I'm paying close attention to what they're saying, what they're doing with their capital and the concerns that they have. So rhetoric is important. But what I would say about rhetoric is you can get lost in the noise of that, because if you had taken rhetoric out of the White House in the morning and made decisions on that, you would have been surprised in the wrong way with what occurred. So that's not how we want to run money. We want to run money based on what the companies are saying and what the policies are coming out of Washington.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Yeah, I'm starting to believe that most of us, as investors, at least, would actually be better if you had a choice between listen to everything that the president says versus listen to none of it as an investor, I might actually choose, choose the latter at this point.

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

Yeah, I'll tell you this. I don't listen to, I read, I don't, I don't listen. And I, you know, I know it's like a small thing, but I find that, that sometimes listening can cause emotional reactions. And so I like to read to consume. And then I'm focused on what the companies are saying, what the companies are doing. And you really got to be, you know, looking for where opportunity lies. Because if you're looking for headlines, good luck, no one's going to send you a postcard in the mail telling you when to step into the equity market. That's not, that's not how it works.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

They don't ring a bell. As my old Tell me about. No, I think the point I'm about emotion is really important. Like, you know what, what Trump is great at, his superpower is causing people to feel strong emotions. This is why, this is what got him to be president. This is what makes him such a hypnotic figure is he has like a mainline cable into our emotional wiring. And stepping away from that, you know, is, is powerful.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Yeah.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

You know, and just trying to make sure his message may get through to your brain, but you can't let it get through to your emotions.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

100%. Just on, before we end here, John mentioned opportunities. I'd love to just hear what you guys think about. I mean, we talked about the multiple contraction, which has been pretty stunning, especially when you look at a lot of these tech companies which have been sliding over many, many weeks and months. And I mean, I was looking at Microsoft the other day trading at the same level it was in the Post Liberation Day sell off. I mean, where do we think that there are some opportunities here in this market? Are we perhaps being distracted by everything else that's going on and forgetting that actually there are some, some pretty cheap stocks out there right now? John, I guess I'll start with you.

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

Yeah, I mean, there's no question they're cheap stocks. I mean, I'll share this. And again, I'm biased because I look at stocks all day and this is what we do. So I, I, you know, I'm always, I'm always probably, you know, my bent is to be optimistic. But I will say this. Not a lot of folks realize this. The Russell 2000 after today, that's the small cap index, it's up five and a half percent. The Russell mid cap is up five percent and you know, the 1000 is down 80 basis points. So small and mid cap stocks are up and it's like why is that? Why is that? And I think there's two key reasons. The first is that you've seen a rotation away from some of the Mag 7. So though that's a very crowded trade and you saw some compression there. And I think you saw compression there because folks started to be worried about hey, maybe Nvidia and what it's doing to the software space and how it's breaking into being able to code more cheaply. That could have pressure on the margins with some of these large tech companies. That's one piece of it. But then the other is these small and mid cap companies. What the market is signaling to me is that there's relief coming for these companies. And I think that is pointing to rates because those have the most debt, the most sensitive to interest rates. And the reason I think interest rates are so important. It's easy to say interest rates all about interest rates. Interest rates are the traffic signals for the economy, okay? And they tell capital what to do. And so it's a big, big, big deal. And so when I see small and mid cap stocks up year to date in the face of everything we're seeing, that gets me even more optimistic because below the surface you've got a lot of dislocation in cyclicals, industrials, technology, consumer discretionary. But you got to be choosy. Not all stocks are created equal. And I mentioned pricing power earlier, so you're going to have to really weed through. Not every stock is created equal.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

I have to wrap it up here, but Rob, any closing thoughts before we go?

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

You know, I'm looking at that mid cap index myself. You know, I think it's, it's really interesting still at a massive discount to the, to the S&P 500. You know, I'm paid to write about markets, not invest them. But I, I would echo those comments and to a certain extent they apply also to European stocks. More interest rate sensitive, more energy sensitive at a discount. So the argument's there. And as far as Microsoft at 20 times earnings, which it hasn't been in a really long time now that it's off a third. You know, we've had 25 years of reasons to bet against Microsoft and it's had the last laugh every time. You know, it's like Microsoft is like the black mold of the American economy. Like once it's in your house, there's no getting it out so I'm not betting against Microsoft at 20 times earnings. I'll put it that way.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

100% agree. Robert Armstrong, commentator for the Financial Times and author of the Unhedged Newsletter. John Mary, chief Investment Officer of NFJ Investment Group. Rob and John, thank you both very much. Appreciate it.

[Robert Armstrong (Financial Times Commentator, Unhedged Newsletter Author)]

Pleasure.

[John Mowry (Chief Investment Officer, NFJ Investment Group)]

Thank you.

[Ed Elson (Host of Prof. G Markets)]

Okay, that's it for today. We appreciate you joining us for another Profgue Markets panel. If you have a guest you think we should speak to on this topic or any other, please drop us a line in the comments or email our Producer, [e-mail] We hope to hear from you. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Alison Weiss, edited by Joel Patterson and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Brad Williams. Our research team is Dan Shalon, Isabella Kinsel, Kristen o' Donoghue and Mia Silverio. And our social producer is is Jake McPherson. Thank you for listening to Prof. G Markets from Profigy Media. If you like what you heard, give us a follow. I'm Ed Elson. And tune in tomorrow for our conversation with Mark Zandi.