Loading summary
Transcript101 lines
- [00:03]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Support for the show comes from Morgan Stanley's Thoughts on the Market Today's financial markets move fast. Morgan Stanley moves faster with their daily podcast, Thoughts on the Market. Thoughts on the Market covers daily trends across the global investment landscape with actionable insights from Morgan Stanley's leading economists and strategists. And with most episodes under five minutes long, staying informed has never been easier. Listen and subscribe to Thoughts on the Market wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:33]
Support for this show comes from Odoo Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com
- [01:14]
avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not
- [01:16]
Peter Beck
sure where to start.
- [01:17]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today.
- [01:45]
Ed Elson
Welcome to the Property Markets Founder Series. I'm Ed Elson. The global space economy is projected to reach $1.8 trillion by 2035. What was once an industry dominated by governments rapidly becoming one of the most important commercial markets in the world, shaping everything from national security and communications to scientific discovery and defense. My next guest has built one of the leading companies at the center of that transformation. What began as a company focused on lowering the cost and increasing the frequency of small satellite launches has evolved into a full scale space systems business. Today, the company designs satellites, builds space spacecraft components, and provides launch services that are helping shape the future of the commercial space industry. With more than $200 million in revenue last quarter and a backlog that has Grown to roughly $2.2 billion, the company has emerged as one of the biggest players in the future of space. This is my conversation with Sir Peter Beck, the founder and CEO of Rocket Lab. Peter, thank you so much for joining us on the show. I think what would be helpful to get started Here is an explanation of what Rocket Lab actually does. Clearly you're in the business of space, but there are lots of different things that are involved in the space industry. So what is Rocket Lab doing? What services are you providing?
- [03:13]
Peter Beck
Well, thanks very much, Ed. I think you did a fantastic introduction, by the way. There's not much more to be said,
- [03:17]
Ed Elson
but cut it there. Done. Interview over.
- [03:21]
Peter Beck
Yeah, yeah, done. Yeah, we're good to go. No, I mean, so what we're really trying to build here is an end to end space company. So what that means is that, you know, providing services directly from space and everything below that. You mentioned launch, obviously launch is, you know, the keys to space and the ride to space. And then satellites are obviously the systems that provide the services. And then ultimately if you go up one level higher, it's actually the from space. And our thesis here is that if you can build the satellites and vertically integrate all of your own components and then vertically integrate your own launch, then your ability to provide services from space is obviously an advantage to somebody who has to go and buy all that stuff either from you or others. So that's kind of the end goal for the company. And we're sort of methodically, step after step pushing towards that. And as you mentioned, now we are one of the largest component suppliers in the space industry. I think something like 30% of everything that went to space last year had a Rocket Lab logo on it somewhere. And we build the satellites and the spacecraft and the rockets and everything in between.
- [04:36]
Ed Elson
Just some more context for the space virgins listening to this podcast. What kinds of companies are buying your products? What kind of company would buy a rocket component or a satellite? Who are those clients?
- [04:53]
Peter Beck
They range from the full end of the spectrum. So on the launch side, we have launched a little cubesat for a bunch of Californian high schools. And then we also, with the, you know, with the same product, launch the most important national security missions where lives are dependent on it. So, you know, that's kind of the beauty of the business is that, you know, and of the space industry is that it really does cover a tremendous SW of different applications. But I would say that more generally, 50% of our business is commercial and 50% of our business is government. And on the commercial side it's earth observation and communications, and then on the government side it's national security missions and then also civil stuff. So we built a couple of spacecraft just recently and they're on their way to Mars for NASA. So all sorts of interesting things.
- [05:49]
Ed Elson
It's helpful, I think, to sort of separate the different categories in this business. We usually just think of space as space, but it seems that there are so many different applications and so many different businesses that are accomplishing very different things. I'd love if you could just sort of lay out what some of those businesses are. I mean, on the one hand we've discussed satellites and of course satellites are essential for telecommunications and also government work. We want to go explore planets and you need someone to go lift that stuff into space and get that stuff out there. What are some of the most important businesses in the space industry right now?
- [06:29]
Peter Beck
Maybe we start a little bit higher up in the fact that space is just infrastructure really and it's slightly unusual infrastructure in the fact that it's completely hidden. And you often talk to folks and they'll say, wow, this space stuff, it's all sci fi, it doesn't affect me. Then they'll go home and order a pizza and the pizza turns up at their house magically and they don't realise that ordering that pizza. They may have interfaced with space to make their communication, but certainly they've kind of interfaced with space because the guy delivering their pizza has used GPS to get there. And so there's a whole bunch of infrastructure in orbit, whether it be GPS or communications or observations that everybody uses in their everyday life lives, but just sort of doesn't realize it. And you know, I think if you want to break it down into the most simplest forms you have, you have Earth observation and that can cover all different spectrums, whether it's visible light or non visible light or rf. And those are, you know, for mum and dad at home, that's like weather. So how do I get, you know, satellite weather? You know, it's an obvious one. And then communications, you know, GPS falls under that. And then probably I'm sitting down here in New Zealand now, you're somewhere else around the world and there's probably some of that link is done through space. So communications is obviously a huge element. But what I would say is that the biggest thing to be thought of and done in space, I believe hasn't even been thought of yet. And if you just roll the clock back a couple of years and someone said that you were going to put data centers in orb, I think most people would say, well that doesn't sound feasible, but yet there's a huge push there and then go back a few more years and you would say, well, Internet from space in the form of a Starlink or an Amazon LEO would be fictitious and then now it's like everybody's using that. Same with direct to mobile devices from space. So it's constantly redefining itself and as more use cases arrive then that. That's one of the reasons why the space industry is just growing so rapidly.
- [08:56]
Ed Elson
Yeah, the pace of the growth in recent years especially is really striking. I mean, we just look at the stock price of your company, Rocket Lab, it's up 400% in the past year. Other space stocks are going crazy ast space mobile up more than 200%. Viasat up 600%. I mean this is like space's moment. It's a little confusing though because, you know, you point out when you order a pizza you're interacting with space equipment and companies such as yours are the companies that were responsible for getting that kind of equipment out there. But people have been ordering pizzas from a mobile phone for a very long time. Which leads me to my question, which is like, why is it now? Why now are these companies so exciting? What has happened in the past one or two years where suddenly everyone is realizing and waking up that there is massive commercial opportunity in the space industry?
- [09:53]
Peter Beck
Well, I think the answer to that is that space has been dominated by governments and government sectors. And what you've witnessed in the last sort of decade, I would say is the complete democratisation of space. So let's just use the GPS example. So, you know all those GPS satellites currently up in orbit are government assets, right? I mean, they were originally designed as defence assets. Now I think if, if you were to take all of those assets out of the sky and start afresh, it wouldn't be governments putting them back up, it would 100% be commercial entities putting them back up. I'll just give you another example of our escapade mission to Mars for NASA. Those are spacecraft. NASA gave us a spec and said, look, we want to do this at Mars. We went away and designed and built not one, but two spacecraft that are currently on the way to Mars. Complete NASA's mission prior to that, that would have been a NASA internal project and it wouldn't have been a commercial thing. So even stuff like deep space interplanetary missions are now being outsourced commercially. And some of that is that the commercial market has established itself, but also the skills and expertise have been distributed and capital has been allocated so that commercial companies can actually go and do those sorts of things.
- [11:24]
Ed Elson
Well, I think this kind of gets to the heart of why we want to talk to you and it's a lot about your Story when you started this company in 2006, for those who haven't recognized it yet, you are from New Zealand and I mean, you essentially decided to build a company where there didn't seem to be much commercial opportunity at all. And yet here we are, and you're generating hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue and you're a publicly traded company. So why did you start this company and why did you believe that this would actually be a real commercially viable business?
- [12:08]
Peter Beck
Well, I mean, firstly, NASA wouldn't employ me, so I didn't really have too many options. So the only viable option open to me was to start my own company. And I just happened to live in New Zealand. Now, Rocket Lab these days is a global company. In fact, the vast majority of the company is not in New Zealand. There's still an element here for sure, but the vast majority is everywhere else. But, I mean, in simple forms. I started building rockets when I was a kid, right? So it was always something I wanted to go and do. And I went on a bit of a rocket pilgrimage one year to the United States, and I learned a couple of really important things. One, NASA wouldn't employ me.
- [12:50]
Ed Elson
Why is that? Sorry, if I could just ask, why wouldn't they employ you? Because you weren't a citizen or you applied and they didn't accept the application. What happened?
- [12:58]
Peter Beck
I'm a foreign national with no university degree. Like, it's hardly the top of the list, is it? So, you know. But the other thing I learned is I went around and looked at, visited a bunch of the little startup companies in the Mojave Desert and whatnot, and looked at what they were doing, and what they were doing was absolutely no different to what I was doing here at home. So I'm like, oh, hang on a minute. So there's not a massive gulf between what I'm doing and what everybody else is doing, so maybe I should just do it.
- [13:28]
Ed Elson
I think the question we're all asking is how did a young man end up deciding to build rockets? And how do you even do that? If we could hear more about how that ended up happening.
- [13:41]
Peter Beck
Some of my youngest memories are standing outside with my father. And, you know, he was an avid, kind of enthusiast in astronomy as well. And I remember him pointing out to me that all those stars in the sky that you can see, most of them have planets around them. And on one of those planets there could be somebody standing there looking back at you. And that moment for me was like, right, this space thing is bigger than anything. So this is what I want to do. And I had a natural propensity to engineering. So you mix those two things together and what else are you going to build but rockets? I mean, that's the obvious outcome.
- [14:21]
Ed Elson
At what age did you start actually building rockets?
- [14:23]
Peter Beck
So I was at school when it sort of got a little bit more serious. So because the metalwork teacher would let me use the metalwork room at lunchtime on the weekends. So, you know, that would have been probably 15, 14.
- [14:38]
Ed Elson
And so you're working at school at lunch breaks, the guy's letting you use the metalworks. And then at what point do you start to really operationalize this? At what point does this go from a kid using the DT workshop at lunchtime to actually building a company?
- [14:55]
Peter Beck
There's a little bit of a story in between there. So I left school and pursued a tool and die making apprenticeship. And the plan was to go to university. But in New Zealand there's no aerospace courses or anything like that. And I always felt that I can learn a tremendous amount of by building things. And having those hand skills to build the things that I wanted to build was really important. So I did an apprenticeship in tool and die making and it was at a company called Fisher and Paykel, which it's an appliance whiteware manufacturer. And then no sooner I finished my apprenticeship, I went into the design office and did production machinery design and designed machines and robots and then into product design and then into analysis. And then I went and worked at a superyacht company where I was a project engineer responsible for a 123 foot super yacht. And that was really formative part of my career because in the morning you had to work and communicate effectively with some guys on the shop floor who were in some cases illiterate. And then in the afternoon the owner of the yacht would fly in his helicopter and you have to be able to communicate effectively with him as well. And so that was super informative. And then I went to a New Zealand national lab, so it's kind of a government research lab where I did advanced materials and superconductors. And that's where I learned a lot about composites. And we did a lot of composites work for America's cupboats and all those sorts of things. And it was during my time there at this research institute that I went over the States and did my rocket pilgrimage in Kakashi back and quit. Quit my job and put a sign up on the door. And that was the beginning of rocket lab.
- [16:54]
Ed Elson
We'll be right back.
- [17:05]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Support for the show comes from Monarch. It's summer and that means a lot of us are gearing up for vacations. Don't make the mistake of not adequately preparing, otherwise your fantastic getaway could get colored with regret once the bill catches up with you. Set yourself up for success with Monarch Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything accounts, investments, savings, goals and spending. Get your first year of Monarch Core for half off just $50 with promo code Markets. With Monarch you get a built in AI assistant that helps you keep track of your finances, not just what you've already spent, which is what most finance tracking apps can do to do. Monarch helps you set goals, map out big purchases and provides insights including noticing when your spending has gone up or how much inflation is costing you. Monarch can even help you split the check. With Bill split, you can just scan the receipt. Everyone claims what they got and they all settle up in Monarch. Use code markets@monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core at half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with code markets. Support for the show comes from Framer. First impressions matter and if you're a business owner then having a messy website is basically the same as not showering before that in person job interview. Thankfully, Framer helps show off the best parts of your business. Framer is an enterprise grade no code website builder used by teams at companies including Perplexity and Miro to move fast with real time collaboration and robust cms. With everything you need for great SEO, not to mention advanced analytics that include integrated A B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your.com from day one. So whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages or migrate your full dot com. Framer has programs for startups, scale ups
- [18:52]
and large enterprises to make going from
- [18:54]
idea to live site as easy and
- [18:56]
as fast as possible.
- [18:58]
Learn how you can get more out of your.com from a framer specialist or get started building for free today@Famer.com markets for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's Framer.com markets for 30% off Framer.com markets, rules and restrictions may apply.
- [19:22]
Support for the show comes from Morgan Stanley's Thoughts on the Market Today's financial markets move fast. Morgan Stanley moves moves faster with their daily podcast Thoughts on the Market. Thoughts on the Market covers daily trends across the global investment landscape with actionable insights from Morgan Stanley's leading economists and strategists and with most Episodes under five minutes long. Staying informed has never been easier. Listen and subscribe to thoughts on the market wherever you get your podcasts.
- [19:57]
Ed Elson
We're back with Peter Beck. So what does it take to actually build a company at that point that is actually building rockets? What does the recruitment process look like? What does the fundraising process look like? How do you convince an investor that they're going to get their money back by giving you money to build rockets into space?
- [20:18]
Peter Beck
That's less trivial. Look, we started with a small amount of investment and really bootstrapped the company. And we launched our first rocket to space, not to orbit, just a little rocket to space in 2009. And then following that, I went and visited a lot of folks in the United States who were very enamored with what we had done on such a short timeframe. And we ended up bootstrapping the company a little bit longer. And we worked for Lockheed Martin and, and DARPA defence agencies and did lots of kind of really advanced technology kind of work. And it wasn't until 2013 where I really felt that I had the credibility and the capability to go and build an orbital class vehicle. So, you know, I got on a plane and went to Silicon Valley and gave myself three weeks to come home with a check or be run out of town. And at the end of those three weeks, we had our first Series A round in the bag from Coastal Adventures.
- [21:21]
Ed Elson
When you make that pitch to these Silicon Valley investors, I mean, obviously they're trying to figure out how this becomes profitable. What does that pitch look like? Are you kind of describing the need for space equipment today, or is it more of a pitch about something hundreds of years in the future? What does that pitch at that point actually look like?
- [21:42]
Peter Beck
Nobody's interested in anything 100 years in the future, especially if you're a venture capitalist. But no, I mean, I think I was able to communicate effectively the opportunity and the scale of that. And also it was at this time where small investments were being made into space companies. So Vinod at Khosla Ventures had invested in a company called Skybox, which later Google bought for half a billion dollars. So the Koza Ventures guys knew the pain of launch because they had to buy an old ICBM out of Russia, and it was very, very painful to launch. And it's funny, though, because I look at today and then I look back then, and our Series a round was $5 million. And that was considered a lot of money back then for a rocket company. And then I saw a rocket company just the other day raise $200 million on a $2.2 billion valuation and they'd built nothing. And it's like, wow, this is how times have changed. But anyway, so we raised that Series A, and I've always run a company and I'm pretty straightforward and just do what you say you're going to do and everything's fine. And we did that and we were able to quickly raise a B round and then a C round, and before you knew it, we had a rocket on the pad and, you know, we're in orbit and flying customers in a way.
- [23:16]
Ed Elson
We mean, you mentioned some of these insane valuations and these series A rounds. $2.2 billion valuation for a company that hasn't actually built anything. Yeah, it's crazy, which is crazy. But then also you look at the valuations and the pricing on the companies that actually are building things, and the valuations are pretty stunning. The multiples are pretty stunning, including on your company. And one thing that is, I think, notable about the space industry is we haven't really seen it be proven as a profitable business yet. So your company isn't profitable? It's expected to. Analysts say it'll be profitable in 2028. But I'm interested to know what the prize is from a business perspective for a lot of these investors, because clearly there's something out there, there's some prize that's going to be so great that will warrant these unbelievable valuations that we are seeing. What is that prize and what business look like, say, 10 or 20 years down the line?
- [24:15]
Peter Beck
Yeah, well, I think it's a little bit mean to say that space businesses aren't really profitable. I mean, I think you can look back through history and sure, that there's been plenty of bankruptcies as well, but there's also been plenty of profitability in a number of space businesses to address the valuation kind of element. And look, I completely agree there's some valuations that are. That are completely untethered to reality. But I think with respect to us right now, there are two companies on this planet that have successfully scaled launch to any level of frequency and reliability, and that SpaceX and US, so access to orbit on a regular and reliable basis is rare. It's like, like extremely, extremely rare. So, you know, when I started Rocket Lab and when I started developing the Electron class vehicle, at one point we were tracking 142 companies trying to do exactly the same thing. 142 companies. And where are the 142 companies? That kind of gives you a sense of just how ridiculously difficult it is. I wish it was way easier. That would make my life way easier. But it is insanely difficult. And when we were raising capital for Electron, the big show in town was Virgin Orbit. And Richard Branson had funded that business to the tune of $1.2 billion to do exactly the same thing that Electron does today. And it wasn't successful. It's not even like if you just pay enough money, you'll be successful. There are so many elements that have to be absolutely perfect and lined up to make a successful launch business in particular that it's just incredibly ra. Anything that's rare attracts a certain value. But as we think about going forward, yes, the space industry is seeing tremendous excitement and tremendous growth right now. And is all of it justified? Probably not. But nevertheless, there is a huge, huge commercial opportunity. And my belief is that there's going to be a small handful of companies and these companies are going to be end to end companies, meaning that they have their own rocket, they have their own spacecraft, and they're providing services from space and they'll take out the majority
- [26:48]
Ed Elson
of the prize just to go back to the profitability point. And just so we're clear, I mean, I am a huge fan of space. I read about science fiction all the time. I'm so excited about it. I want these companies to build these rockets and I want us to go to Mars and I want us to explore space. I'm like, like pro. So I didn't mean for it to sound mean on the profitability point.
- [27:10]
Peter Beck
No, not at all.
- [27:10]
Ed Elson
My understanding, which I'd like to understand more about, is that so far it is a business that doesn't make money so far. So I guess I'd love some clarity on that.
- [27:25]
Peter Beck
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, you can go back and look at a bunch of businesses like, you know, Digital Globe is as an example. They're probably the dominating Earth observation company in the industry right now. And so, I mean, historically, yes, there's been a number of businesses that have failed, but I think there's tremendous number of them have been successful as well.
- [27:53]
Ed Elson
Space is a geopolitical topic in a lot of ways. And I mean, this is how space really ramped up. It became a fight or a race between, between the US and the Soviet Union. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the extent to which that is still a dynamic in the space industry. I mean, now it seems to be kind of like a race against China. China's, of course, ramping up their space programs. What Are your thoughts on the US vs China vs any nation? To what extent is this kind of a geopolitical race?
- [28:26]
Peter Beck
Well, I mean, space is the ultimate high ground. So from a national security and defence standpoint, it is the ultimate high ground. So space superiority means land, sea and air superiority. So that is always true. So I think what you're referring to there is like the Apollo program, where that is an example of kind of. I think everybody thinks it was a wonderful philanthropic mission, but it was a Cold War mission to demonstrate to Russia that the US had absolute supremacy and was very successful in doing that. I think. Could we be up for another moon race with China? I think that's highly possible, too. But I think, make no mistake, that space is the ultimate high ground for national security.
- [29:26]
Ed Elson
Could you explain more how it is the high ground? I mean, one thing that I've been starting to hear more about is whoever gets to the moon and establishes a base on the moon or on Mars, they can sort of claim it. And now we're hearing more about sort of space wars. I mean, it seems that this is like really the next frontier in terms of power conflict.
- [29:47]
Peter Beck
I mean, I'm not so sure about that. I think at the end of the day, you know, everybody wants to be first and everybody wants to show supremacy. So the US has already been to the moon, so job done. And the next logical step for the US is to put some sustaining present, a moon base, on there. And that has to be either economically viable or geopolitically a requirement. One of those two things has to be true. So whichever way that shapes out. But I'm not sure that there's a whole bunch of, you know, flag planting and property, you know, gaining there to be done.
- [30:30]
Ed Elson
Why do you think that wouldn't happen? Why. Why is that something that we shouldn't worry too much about?
- [30:35]
Peter Beck
It's kind of like nuclear war in the sense that if you mess it all up, then it's no good for anybody. So, you know, if you're. If you're in low Earth orbit and start blowing satellites up, then you just create, you know, large debris fields and then your own satellites get kind of, you know, consumed by that debris field and all of your own industries suffers. So, you know, I very much see it in that sense. And so I think, you know, everybody is likely to be pretty responsible there.
- [31:07]
Ed Elson
So something you mentioned earlier, Peter, is the idea of data centers in space. And this is something that a lot of people have been talking about. Elon Musk has been talking about it a Lot. Are you excited about this as an industry? Do you think this is something that'll work? Do you think that this is the next step in terms of the space industry?
- [31:26]
Peter Beck
Yeah, look, I think absolutely space data centers will exist. Probably not necessarily for the reasons that everybody else thinks, but for me, from a strategic and national security and defense rationale, that makes tremendous sense to air gap, something like that and have that as an important asset. They absolutely will exist. Now will all compute leave the Earth? I guess I'm slightly less optimistic about that. But nevertheless, I think some of those strategic assets will absolutely go to orbit.
- [32:02]
Ed Elson
Why are they better in orbit than on Earth, on the ground?
- [32:06]
Peter Beck
Well, from a national security standpoint, it's about the best air gap you can get. It's pretty hard to tickle with a data centre and orbit, that's for sure, rather than in a corn patch.
- [32:18]
Ed Elson
What are you most excited about in the space industry right now? I mean, we talked about data centers, but what's the thing that makes you most excited when you're working every day at this point?
- [32:29]
Peter Beck
Well, for us, it's just executing on our vision and kind of growing the company step by step. And as we said we were going to do so. I think I said earlier that the most exciting thing to be done in space is yet to even be thought of. And let's hope we think of it. But right now for us, it's just making sure that we have all of those pieces and those elements in place to ultimately scale and provide services from all but ourselves.
- [32:58]
Ed Elson
Is space exploration one of those things that motivates you? I mean, this is the thing that motivates me as an observer and as a standerby. I just want us to get to Mars. I want us to achieve interstellar travel and want us to do all of these things. Is that a big motivator for you?
- [33:18]
Peter Beck
Totally. I mean, and we generally always have an interplanetary mission or a deep space mission in the clean room somewhere. You know, we did the capstone mission to the moon and the escapade missions to Mars. You know, we have a lot of our components on the surface of Mars right now and exploring the solar system. So it's super exciting. And you know, for me personally, I really love the interplanetary stuff as well. And we have our own private mission to Venus that I'm helping fund within the company. And that mission is unashamedly going to try and search for life in the clouds of Venus. So. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm with you. I think if you have the capability to explore the universe and try and unlock some of the secrets of it. It's almost your duty to do so.
- [34:10]
Ed Elson
We'll be right back.
- [34:20]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Support for the show comes from LinkedIn.
- [34:23]
It's a shame when the best B2B
- [34:24]
marketing gets wasted on the wrong audience. Like imagine running an ad for cataract surgery on Saturday morning cartoons. Or running a promo for this show on a video about Roblox or something. No offense, offense to our Gen Alpha listeners, but that would be a waste of anyone's ad budget. So when you want to reach the right professionals, you can use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers according to their data. That's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. All so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience.
- [35:00]
Audience.
- [35:01]
That's why LinkedIn ads boast one of the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com Scott that's LinkedIn.com Scott Terms and conditions apply.
- [35:22]
Ed Elson
Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more junk juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus it is easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com.
- [36:33]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o dot com.
- [37:17]
Ed Elson
We're back with Peter Beck. Let's get your reactions to what Neil DeGrasse Tyson said in this clip. And what do you think is the probability of me getting to another planet in my lifetime? Zero?
- [37:27]
Guest or Commentator
Really? Yeah. You wanna know why? Yes, please. Yeah, it's just zero.
- [37:34]
Ed Elson
I thought SpaceX gonna go to Mars.
- [37:37]
Guest or Commentator
I have an unorthodox view on this. So you don't have to, you don't have to believe me, but my read of history tells me that we only do big expensive things if there's a geopolitical reason for it. Either an economic reason or a defense reason. Not just cause, it's the next thing to do.
- [38:00]
Ed Elson
What do you think? Do you think that we'll eventually get to Mars or not eventually? Do you think we'll be able to get to Mars in our lifetime? In your lifetime? Do you think that that is possible?
- [38:09]
Peter Beck
Well, it's possible. I mean technologically there's no reason it's not possible now, you know, economically or commercially is it feasible? That's a whole different question. And I think it's, we're in just like a crazy great time in human history. It's like the two richest people on the planet are plowing all of their resources into space exploration. And you know, I think that's absolutely incredible. And we are incrementing forward within space exploration at a rate that we haven't seen since the Apollo missions. And it's not by governments, it's being funded by folks. So I think they're choosing to spend their winnings in a very noble way in that sense. So I think yeah, it's a super exciting time. But yeah, I mean, my view on kind of interstellar travel for humans probably differs from most in the fact that these fleshy watery bodies of ours are pretty useless for space travel. So my view is that I think if you want to actually explore the solar system, then a human on a piece of silicon is probably the best way to do it.
- [39:36]
Ed Elson
Say more about that. What does that mean? Are we sending AIs into space?
- [39:40]
Peter Beck
Well, no. I mean, I Think, you know, man, this is gonna, this is gonna set the Internet off. But I mean, I think the ultimate kind of reduction of the human soul down to, you know, solid state is what will allow us to travel through the solar system. Because unfortunately, everything in the solar system is measured in millions of years. A human lifespan measured in years. So those two things just don't work. And even if you could accelerate to something like the speed of light, and your body has to sit there and absorb multiple GS for many, many years, which is not fun, and then when you get there, the reverse everything about it is just not conducive to moving sacks of flesher and water around. So if you could somehow divulge that or down to a piece of silicon, then a piece of silicon can float into space for a few thousand hundred thousand years and everything's fine. And the whole timescale just matches the universe's timescale much, much better.
- [40:49]
Ed Elson
So in other words, if we could basically download our brains onto a chip and then send those chips out there, that's going to be the future of interstellar travel. That's how we will potentially discover life on new planets. Am I understanding that correctly?
- [41:06]
Peter Beck
That's one way to think about it for sure. And I'm just being practical about it. It's like if you need a few thousand years to get somewhere, then maybe it's best to do it in a different form. And as AI becomes more and more prolific, then I think you can stand in front of an AI generated computer person in a screen and it's almost indistinguishable from is that a real person or is that not a real person? So I guess at some point the question has to be asked is, do we just, are we just a meat computer? And can we just turn that meat computer into some other form? But this is getting way off topic, way off topic.
- [41:57]
Ed Elson
That's what we're here to do. Because I actually agree with you that that is the way. I mean, that's the only way that it would make sense if we were to achieve interstellar travel. But I'm sure there are also a lot of people who are listening, who are thinking, this feels very dystopian, sci fi, scary. I don't like this idea. Why are we turning ourselves into robots? Do you ever think about that? At the same time, I don't really
- [42:21]
Peter Beck
think about that too much. No, to be honest with you, I like I say I'm just being very practical about it. And I'm just an engineer solving Engineering problems. And the way to solve that problem is just not have the ball of water.
- [42:38]
Ed Elson
I get the sense that this is something that really drives you, that we need to get out there and we need to understand what is actually happening in the universe. It's just crazy how little we know about it. And I could also imagine that from your position, it's probably kind of frustrating. I mean, it's certainly frustrating for me that we're moving. It feels as though we're moving not slowly, but we're never gonna know the answers to these questions.
- [43:06]
Peter Beck
Oh, my God. You need to cheer up a bit, Ed. This is a bit grim. No, I'm super excited. I mean, so our Venus mission, for example, you know, if we could, like within the clouds of Venus, there's a predicted as a phosphine gas, and phosphine gas we only know currently, we only know it's created by some symbiosis of life. So our Venus mission is to go to the clouds of Venus. And basically we've got a nephlometer in the spacecraft and think of it as a green light, red light for life. Now imagine if we could go there and get a green light for life in the clouds of Venus. Then I think that is such a massive question to answer for us as a species in the universe. It's like, okay, okay, we're not the only life in the universe. Cause right now, I mean, we have no scientific evidence to prove that we are not the only life in the entire universe. Now, I think that's unlikely, but nevertheless, that is the scientific fact. So imagine, you know, in our lifetime, I think we will prove, whether it's rocket lab or somebody else will prove that there is life outside Earth. And either there has been in the past or there is now. And I think that is like one of the largest and most important questions we can ask. And answer as a human species is like, are we unique or are we not? And if we're unique, then I think we better, you know, better pull our resources and think about it a little bit harder. And, you know, if we're not unique, then it's equally as fascinating. So, you know, I think these are super exciting and super important questions to answer. And I honestly believe that will be answered in my lifetime for sure.
- [44:55]
Ed Elson
Really? You think that we'll know the answer to aliens in our lifetime?
- [44:59]
Peter Beck
Well, I mean, aliens, but, you know, life. Are we the only. Is life unique? I mean, right now, sitting on the surface of Mars are a whole bunch of drilled samples from the rovers that are Highly likely to contain, you know, examples of, of ancient life. We just need to go and get them and bring them back. So no, I think this is going to happen in our lifetime.
- [45:24]
Ed Elson
What is the rate of progress that we're seeing right now? Because I mean, if it's exponential, then it seems that there's higher and higher probability that we'll know the answers to these questions. As someone who's sort of building on the frontier, how fast is the pace of progress that we're seeing in the space industry right now?
- [45:42]
Peter Beck
Now? Crazy fast. Crazy fast. Yeah, no, it is, you know, the
- [45:47]
Ed Elson
flywheel is spinning and is that because of the amount of money that is being invested into the industry? Like what sort of changed for the industry?
- [45:55]
Peter Beck
It's kind of a combination of so many things, right? It's yes, look, capital allocation is super important to do anything, but also, you know, you can't. Capital allocation doesn't come if there isn't results, as you pointed out before, and it doesn't come if there isn't execution. And there's at least a few of us in the industry that are driving those two metrics. Well, and I think as long as those two things continue to occur, then everything will snowball. And let's not forget the access to compute and all of those things that were typically a nation state had access to, now commercial companies or even people at home have access to. So I think there's been a democratisation of the tools as well as the industry.
- [46:51]
Ed Elson
Something that was also seemed like a big moment for the space industry was the Artemis II mission which splashed down successfully April 10th. To what extent does popular understanding of space drive progress? To what extent did that matter for a company like yours? The fact that everyone was seemingly watching the this space related event at the same time. Does that matter for you guys?
- [47:18]
Peter Beck
Of course, of course. I mean, if people are excited and interested in space, then now they can own a piece of it. So of course it's important. And I think, look, it's a natural human thing to want to explore. I mean, we are explorers as a species, right? The first thing we did is get on design, develop and build boats and went off. And we're doing the same with spacecraft. And I think people have a natural curiosity and it's just so cool as well. I mean, going and orbiting the moon and the challenges and the resources that takes, it's just super impressive and super cool. And that's the one thing about the space industry is, although it might be companies or countries doing stuff, as humans, we can all share in the success. I mean, you can go to anywhere in the world and ask everybody and they'll say, we went and we landed on the moon. It's not buzz and Neil went to the moon. It's a collective human. We went to the moon. Aren't we amazing? And I think, I think that's the thing that space can do when you do these amazing feats. It's a whole human engagement.
- [48:44]
Ed Elson
What would you say is the biggest misconception about the space industry right now? Something everyone believes, but that you believe isn't quite right or quite accurate.
- [48:54]
Peter Beck
Wow. So the great thing and the bad thing about the space industry, the great thing about the space industry is someone can stand up and make the most absurd claims. And because it's so difficult to understand and so difficult to kind of cross reference and check, everybody just applauds and this is great. That has a great outcome and also a negative outcome. The great outcome is of course you have huge excitement and ambition and all the rest of it. And the downside is that you have seen a lot of capital allocated to projects that just made no sense sense. And maybe they learn something along the way. But that's the one thing that frustrates me sometimes is you'll see companies promote the most absurd thing, raise a whole bunch of money and then die. And maybe that's national revolution of something new. But that is both the exciting and great thing about the space industry, but also the challenges that it's so difficult to understand and really, really diligence that a lot of folks have got away with saying some pretty dumb stuff and not been able to execute against it.
- [50:15]
Ed Elson
What would you say is the most important problem that needs to be solved now for the space industry if we want to continue progressing, continue to understand the universe? Which problem is maybe the most difficult but the most important that we need to solve?
- [50:30]
Peter Beck
The kind of cop out answer to that is launch. Because, you know, launch is the access to space. If you don't have launch, everything else is irrelevant. But you know, honestly, you know, between us and others, launch is becoming, well, kind of under control. But I would say more generally it's scale. So, you know, when we started and when we went to go and build our first satellite, we thought, okay, we'll go and buy some reaction wheels. And we went and bought some, tried to buy some reaction wheels and it was like nine months wait. I'm like, I haven't got nine months to wait for a reaction wheel. This is nuts. And we look around and there's just nobody makes any reaction wheels at scale. So that started really our vertical integration strategy and we ended up buying the best reaction wheel company and they used to make 150 reaction wheels a year. We make thousands a quarter now. So the space industry is really defined by a bunch of manpower shops who build the most exquisite and amazing hardware. But all at subscale, when you turn up and say I want 100 of these, you just watch their heads explode in real time. That's the one thing that we've really focused on is trying to bring scale to the industry. We're the last largest space grade solar cell manufacturers in the world now. And same with small launch and a bunch of components. The largest if not one of the largest scaled providers in the world. And that's what's required. Because if someone turns up and wants to build a constellation of a few thousand spacecraft, then unless you have those, those scaled kind of industries behind it, then nobody can get it done.
- [52:29]
Ed Elson
I'm sure there are people who listen to this podcast who are interested in space and certainly a lot of young people who might want to work in the space industry, start a career, maybe even start a company in the space industry. What would be your advice to those people who are interested in this industry but probably don't really know where to start?
- [52:50]
Peter Beck
Congratulations, because you're in the most exciting time in the space industry right now. I mean, when I was growing up, I just used to think a ton that I wasn't born in the Apollo era. Cause I believed that the Apollo era was like the heyday of all space. And it certainly is a great time. But I would argue that right now is way more exciting. I mean, look, you're talking to a guy who was born at the very bottom of the south island of New Zealand in the middle of nowhere, running a giant space company. So if that's possible, anything's possible. And if you want to work in the space industry, RocketLab careers.com please. But there's infinite opportunities for you and likewise to do a startup. And if you're going to do a startup, my advice there is don't get wound up in building cool tech. So many space companies get enamored with the technology and then try and find a market for it. It's like no. Go and find a big problem within the space industry that everybody's struggling around and go and solve that problem problem.
- [53:57]
Ed Elson
Peter Beck is the founder, president and chief Executive officer of Rocket Labs. Since founding the company in 2006, he has transformed it into a global leader in developing and launching advanced rockets, satellites, and spacecraft. He has served on Rocket Labs Board of Directors and as its president and CEO since July 2013, and was appointed chairman of the board in May 2021. Peter, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.
- [54:22]
Peter Beck
Thanks Ed. Great chatting.
- [54:27]
Ed Elson
This episode was produced by Alison Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our research associates are Dan Shalon and Kristen o', Donoghue, and our senior producer is Claire Miller. Thank you for listening to the Property Markets Founder series. We'll see you next month with another founder story.
- [54:55]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Support for this show comes from Odoo Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. See you CRM, Accounting, Inventory, E Commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for free@odoo.com that's o d o o.com
- [55:35]
Guest or Commentator
when I scraped my car in that parking garage, I was worried that it could be a long process to take care of it. Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge.
- [55:42]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
Me, I have definitely already been here. Now was it left right or right left? Well, maybe I'll cut a path out and find my way back later.
- [55:55]
Guest or Commentator
But it wasn't like that. I filed a claim in under two minutes on the Geico app and they handled it from there. It was taken care of almost as quickly as it happened.
- [56:02]
Peter Beck
It feels good to get help quick. It feels good to Geico.
- [56:05]
Podcast Host (Ad Read)
The right window treatments change everything. Your your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off site wide plus get a free professional measure@blinds.com rules and restrictions apply.