A (3:02)

It really does depend, because my schedule does depend on what projects I have going on, you know, what events, you know, what season's happening. But I would say for a regular day, for. For a day, I usually wake up and do some sort of meditation or go to the gym, really get like my mind, my body, my heart connected so I could move forward with the day with like a clear head. And then I'll come back and I'll map out the day, figure out, okay, what do I got to do today? What's the most pressing, you know, high, you know, high ticket issue that I have to tackle and then really just strategize for the day. I'll spend the first half doing the emails and handling more admin work. And then I usually ideally like to spend the last half of the day doing creative work, whether it's painting, drawing, working on the conceptions of a project. And so I'll kind of sit and work on that, maybe watch like a movie while I do it and allow the creativity to flow. And then for a week, so during the weekdays, that's usually my schedule. It's not that exciting, you know, clients and, you know, do some stuff in the evening. And on the weekends is when I'll do events. So I'll do retreats or attend a market or do some sort of networking event. And so the weekends is where I can really be a little extroverted and crawl out of my hermit cave and, and socialize with folks. So, yeah, that's usually how my. How my days and weeks go.

B (4:43)

Amazing. Amazing. So, Sarah, with all this experience that you've had, all this exciting stuff that you're doing, I am sure that, you know, things are flowing beautifully and that's one of the reasons why we found you. However, there's also been times when things don't flow as well and you have at least initially, like in the word that I'm going to say you have fails or first attempts in learning. So we want to go by one of those times when you're trying something, something new, or maybe you've done it a million times and it just didn't work this time. We want to be there we want to live that experience with you and take away any ideas or something that helps us not experience that pain, hopefully in the future.

A (5:21)

Yeah, absolutely. I think something that I fail at or like a repeated fail is really communicating where my creative brain space is, especially for a project. So if I do create an escape room or some kind of gamified experience, really communicating what that means to the, to my clients, to my customers, to the community, I know that my brain operates a little different and I know the vision in my head. And so when it comes to like promoting or sharing what I'm doing, I get a lot of like, so what is it? So how do I do this? So what's going on? And really taking a step back and saying, okay, how can I communicate this in a way that is simple enough for folks to understand? Because again, I'm working on this project. So there's this colorful definition in my head and I'm like, yes, we're going to be whisked away into this whimsical journey. And people are like, I don't even know those words that you said. What are we doing? And so really rewinding and saying, okay, this is a game. This is an in person game. This is a virtual game. The goal of the game is to do X, Y and Z. So I think I've had a lot of failures in the marketing aspect. I'll pour hours and days and months into a project and it'll flop because I promote it in a way that makes sense to me and doesn't make sense to anybody else.

B (7:03)

That's a tough one. It's a tough one because you're, you're, you're, you know, it's not just about empathizing. It's. You can empathize and at the same time, you don't think about the way that other people think necessarily and think it through that way because you're not them. Even though you empathize, there's still all that leg work that you need to go through and, you know, testing and many other things that, that go into that for you to be able to reach that point where your message, the way you say it is, is listened to the way you want it to be heard as well by the other people.

A (7:31)

Right, exactly, exactly. And I mean it, it's, it's a test. You know, we're, you know, experimenting and exploring because I am creating these games and experiences that are kind of new and unconventional and people haven't really heard of these things yet. And so really just like throwing A lot of things at the board to say, okay, what sticks? What do people understand? Or what gives them the invitation to try this out makes sense.

B (8:00)

And in the exact opposite direction. So we talked about a fail or a difficulty that you've even had repeatedly as you were discussing what about something that actually really worked for you. So it could be a proud moment, a project that you want to showcase, like whatever that was. We want to live through that experience with you and take away any of the expert insights you got from doing that.

A (8:21)

Yeah. I would say I'm going to highlight my most recent game that I've released, but I think A Win is my virtual, my virtual Wellness Escape room that I just released in June. And the reason why I call it a success, well, there was actually a, a few successes that pushed me into saying, okay, this is the right step, this is where I need to go. Because in the work I do with Curious Sunshine, there's a lot of, there's a lot of like PowerPoints and talking about facts and scientifics and, you know, this is how our brain is, you know, benefits from mindfulness and play. And it became very like corporate educational where it's like, here's the PowerPoint slide, I'm going to talk at you. And I hated it because I was like, this isn't playful. I can't have a play based business and then have it not be playful in my approach. And so I was ruminating and thinking about how can I create this fun game experience that still talks about how important this stuff is, but it takes users into this experience instead of just this event where I'm talking at them. And so I was like, okay, I love doing puzzles. That is something that is like a weird, a weird thing. I was like, I don't know where to insert this. Which is why I love my business because it gives me a chance to explore and put all these weird, quirky ideas into practice. And I was like, all right, let me create this escape room idea. And I want it to have this wellness component because there's not much out there that merges play and, well, wellness together. And so I was like, okay, let's merge these together. But I want people to walk away with something. I don't want them to just play the game. And then like, okay, cool, I played the game, it's done. But what tools can you, can you gain from it? And so I added this goal setting component. So at the end of it you will have a goal and some steps that you could accomplish it through this playful lens. And I was like, all right, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but it's going to happen. And I reached out to a few of my play colleagues and one of them was like, oh, yeah, do you want to. That sounds great. Like, develop a training for us as well and, and you'd be able to share this with our. With our community over on the west coast. And I was like, okay, so this idea isn't bonkers. This makes sense. Then you. You want, you want in on this action? Perfect. And so really developing this game and having another set of eyes and another brain in this process really helps because, again, I know what I want. I know I understand the goal. And so to have someone say, okay, but I don't. So let's rewind, let's simplify. You know, the people that this is going to be catered towards, they need to understand this too, because the concepts can be deep. And so really diving into that and making it my own touch. So using my art, I illustrated the story and, you know, I'm narrating it. And so it's my own, like, it was my own little project where I can, like, pour myself into as well. And so that is, you know, at the end of it all, at the, you know, launching it and having it be tested, like beta tested and everything, I got a lot of great feedback of like, yes, this really helps me view my goals in this playful lens and really understand myself deeply as well as understand why these goals are so important. And it has this, like, computer game vibe, like kind of like in elementary school and you play the computer games and the computer labs, so it has like this innocence and the simplicity to it, which I love. And so I think that is a really big success for me because I want most of my offerings to be a practice of what my business is, which is creating a more playful world. And it's like, then I need to create more playful experiences. So that's my latest success that I just think does what it needs to do in communicating the importance of Curious Sunshine while also creating a fun and playful journey for the people playing it.

B (12:48)

Amazing. Amazing. Is there you mentioned you just finished this one. And I love sort of the approach and how everything sort of lines up in many ways with your approach and everything you've been thinking, were you to approach a new project for yourself or client, do you have some steps, like, how does your, maybe your creative process work? Do you do it somehow, or is it just things just go rising? What does that look like? If somebody came in through the door, is it like, well, I'm going to guide you through this? Or what would you tell them in that sense? And what would be the actual. Where does the action happen for the game? Yeah, you're creating the game from scratch, something entirely new. How do you get from somebody coming in your door and saying, oh, I want this thing, I have this general idea. And actually then the game being sort of delivered.

A (13:36)

Oh yes. So I would say really looking at the problem first or looking at the outcome. Really looking at like the root, like why are we here? Why? Why do we want this? And really digging deep into the why not just I don't want, I want to have fun. Okay, but, but why? And using that curious part of curious sunshine to ask the right questions and dig deep and it's like, okay, this is the core reason why we're here. And then to kind of work backwards and say, okay, well, to solve this problem or to educate on this thing, here are the steps that we need to do to get there. Really looking at, you know, the audience, right? Who is this for? Is it going to be in person? Is it virtual? Is it something that's going to be repeated? Is it a series? Can we break it up? You know, and really looking at the overall score scopes because that is going to shape how you know, these experiences and these games are built. In this case it's very much self directed. So there was a lot of, you know, creating ample tools and assistance to help folks if they get stuck in some point. So creating any supplementary PDFs or anything like that is essential. And so, and so really diving into what that looks like and then looking at elements, right? What's the story? Is there a story that's involved? Are we the characters? Is the player the character? Are we following a character? And then of course, because I like to use my strengths and so my strengths are art, puzzle, storytelling and creating these magical moments in these somewhat mundane and boring scenarios. So cool. How can we add art? Rather that's through actual visual art illustrations. Is it through music? Do we create, you know, a fun jingle or something to help us remember retain. Is there fun movements or gestures that we could add in? And so really looking at these fun toy, like a toy chest, I think. And I have a, like I have a toy chest, like a theoretical toy chest of all these activities, games and puzzles and techniques that I could use. And so we look at the toy chest, figuring out, okay, what are all the activities that are possible and how can we add that alongside the story. And then that's where the kind of experimental exploration comes in of how do we weave this all together into this fun story? How do we create this intrigue? Because I do love the idea of adventure and mystery. So anything I create is going to have this element of mystery and adventure that we bring in. You know, come to this mysterious adventure and then really guiding people through the story. And so I think creating something that is an experience and brings people in is very important to me. Rather, it's putting them into the story or making it an experience where you're walking through the space and creating this experience for yourself. But really playing on my strengths because I can only. I think we create best when we're walking with. With more authenticity of who we are and how we best create. So I'm not going to create a competitive sports game. I'm not a sports person. It will not. It won't go that well. But I can create things that involve a story and maybe solving a mystery. And I feel like that's where we. So when working with people, I also make sure to communicate that. Or it's like, hey, this is where I met. Do you like this? I'm the right person for you. Let's figure out, you know, what you want to get out of this, how complicated you want this to be, or if you want it to just be more fun story with some games on the side. And so then we, yeah, we start building the story and then add the extra bells and whistles alongside that.

B (17:40)

Amazing, Amazing. It's always getting a. I love this part of the interview because I get sort of a tour into the creative brains of so many interesting people. So love that, love that. And you know, from that process, from your experience and everything you've done, is there maybe what we could call a best practice? No, not silver bullet. Because people are like, oh yeah, what's the one thing? There's not the one thing, but something that, you know, makes your projects better or you were to recommend it to somebody else, like, oh, well, just do this. And you know, it's not going to be perfect, but it's going to be a little bit better. But than.

A (18:10)

Than if you don't a best. A best practice I have or that.

B (18:15)

You recommend others, like from your experience that you've seen that you've done many times consciously or maybe subconsciously at this point that, that you think, you know, everybody can just do this and their projects will be at least a little bit better than otherwise.

A (18:28)

I would say that because I'm I'm a play person. Like, I love studying and learning and spreading the importance of play. And so my thing is getting to know how you play as your own individual self. And there's studies that are out there that talk about play personalities and play styles. For example, you know, some people may be more movement based and they find playfulness in moving their body, rather through running, dancing, hiking, anything where they're in their body, that's where they excel. That's what gets them into this playful state of mind. Versus some people like art, exploring, being social, storytelling, being imaginative, dressing up, pretending like we're in a different world, playing with Legos, solving puzzles, doing things like that, or even telling jokes and being a jokester and being silly. These are all different forms of how we play. And a lot of us take on multiple of these. I know depending on where I met and who I'm with, I could dive into this more jokester personality. And so really looking at these different ways that we play and really asking ourselves, like, why is it so? Like, why do I have so much joy when I paint? Right? And asking ourselves and really getting to the core of why these playful activities bring us so much joy, because I feel like it's essential to who we are in our spirit, right? This is our core spirit. And getting into this metaphysical, wellness, spiritual scope of what we intrinsically find as playful is a key to our path and our authenticity and what will bring us liberation and help us open up all these new avenues of how we can approach something. And so I really dive deep into understanding how you play. And then now looking at how you can kind of bring in these elements into the work that you do. So if you do like creative or creativity poems, right? How can you create more storytelling, more poems into the work you do and exploring our imagination and so play personalities. Yes. And then my second one is really pushing the boundaries of our imagination. Living in a society that doesn't want us to imagine, right? We want to be fed our imagination through social media, through movies, through all this stuff. And it's like, yes, this is how we imagine. It's like, no. We each individually imagine, use our imagination in different ways. And I feel like our imagination is a act of divine connection. It's like I think of these ideas for a reason, right? And my ideas are going to be different than your ideas, which are going to be different than the next person's ideas. And there's something magical and sacred to that. And so honoring the sacredness of how we play and honoring the sacredness of how we imagine and knowing that our imagination is infinite. There are roles that exist, there are jobs that, that are there that we just haven't discovered yet because we don't allow ourselves to imagine outside of the box or know how. So it's one thing to be like, I'm going to imagine and think outside the box, but to know how is a completely different ballpark, you know. And so I think also using our imagination in tandem to how we play is going to create these new avenues of innovation and also create these new neural pathways. It's just instantly going to change how we think because we're allowing ourselves to move into this space of pushing, pushing outside of our comfort zone on purpose to create these new things that we haven't thought of yet.

B (22:40)

Very cool. Plenty of recommendations there. Engager. So listen up. If you missed that, you can always go back and listen to it again. Sarah, now you've heard many of these, these questions and seen the vibe of the podcast. Is there somebody that you would like to hear on the podcast answering these questions? Maybe somebody who's already inspired you, Somebody who you're curious about? I don't know. Anybody come to mind?

A (23:02)

Oh man, I feel like I know so many people that would do really great on this podcast. I. Okay. So I'm going to recommend. Okay. And I say this because I, I consider myself someone who works in, in the intersection between spirituality and play. And I feel like there needs to be more conversations around spirituality and playfulness and really combining these two together. And so I have a really great friend, his name is Ishan and he goes by or he, he really focuses on bringing play into spirituality and how to view life as a game and view spiritual connection as a game. And so I think he'd be really great because he has this unique take on combining these spiritual practices with a playful sense and a playful state of mind. He calls himself the Play Priest, which I love and I highly recommend him because I always love hearing his insight and I think that what he has to offer would be beneficial to really get a full scope of games and gamified approaches to life.

B (24:16)

Awesome. Sounds very, very exciting. And I had never heard of the Play Priest, so very, very good to have him on the scope. Or her recommended books. Is there a book that you recommend, the Engagers? And why would that be?

A (24:32)

I'm also a big book person. Like looking at my bookshelf right now, I think a book that I. Okay. There's a book that I love right now that's called the Playful Intelligence and that I love this book because it talks about how this is me being nerdy. Like, I love learning about how play can affect our brain and how we think and how. And these elements of what it means to have a playful mindset. And so I love the playful intelligence because it talks about how play can be used in very real scenarios and how these elements of spontaneity and humor and flexible thinking play a role in creating more light and levity in these more heavier situations. Because I do talk about play. And you know, this, the work I do is all about gamifying life. And that doesn't negate from it. It doesn't negate the harsh realities and the challenges, and it doesn't invalidate any of the real traumas and sadness that comes from these real, very real situations that we find ourselves in in life. But what it does is it says, okay, if we can't necessarily stop suffering, because that is part of the human experience. This, these are the ways that we can use a playful mindset to create liberation and create this. This levity into our situation. So we're not kind of spiraling into this whole. Whole of sadness and darkness, but how we can use it to not only bring joy to ourselves, but also bring joy to other people in the experience. And that's a lot of the work I do is cool, let's play. But now let's make sure that we could bring playfulness into when we've had the hardest day of our life or when we received devastating news. How can we now use flexible thinking, spontaneity and humor to kind of elevate from this situation and really learn what we needed to learn and heal how we needed to heal. So I love that book because it just shows these real life scenarios of how people have used playfulness in these very real applications.

B (27:07)

Very, very cool. Sounds like a great book, for sure. Sarah, what would you say is your superpower, that thing that makes you better at least than most other people, doesn't have to be absolutely 100% unique just to you and nobody else in the world. That thing that is, you know, your sweet spot.

A (27:27)

I would say that my superpower is adding magic to the mundane. That is my thing. I call myself the Plate Alchemist because I'm able to transmute these energies of stagnancy, boredom, you know, status quo. And I'm able to kind of look and figure out how to transmute those feelings into something playful, invigorating, lively, bold, exciting. And so I think that is my superpower is Being able to take, you know, things like chores or going to work and commuting and really figuring out, okay, we can't. We can't not do these things to survive in society. So how can we make it more playful, more fun? How can we have this and add these elements of adventure and a journey into these things that we have to do every day? Because I believe that to be playful means to go against the status quo. And to be playful and to gamify life goes against the traditional outlook on how we're supposed to navigate life. And so it's a little streak of rebellion, too, to be like, ah, you know, I know we're supposed to do this because we're adults, but I can actually do it this way, too, and still have, in fact, increased the outcome, increase the productivity, because I'm able to get into this place of levity instead of this place of obligation. I have to do this. It's like, oh, wait, this is actually kind of exciting now. I'm looking forward to doing this thing. And so, yeah, being able to add magic to the mundane, I think is my superpower.

B (29:17)

Sounds like a very important one, especially in our line of work. So, Sarah, we come to the difficult question now. The only one that's maybe difficult, I would say of the podcast. What is your favorite game?

A (29:28)

Can I give two answers?

B (29:31)

Let's see.

A (29:32)

So I'm a. I'm a video game person, and so I love Nintendo. I'm a Nintendo girly. Always been that way since I was a child. Like, I think there's a photo of me somewhere. I was like three, and I have the old NES controller in my hand. Of course, my cousins unplugged it, and I am holding it upside down, but the passion is there. And so love any kind of Super Mario game. I love. I specifically love Paper Mario because there is this element of mystery, and it's like, oh, no, something happened. We need to figure it out. And I'm like, yes, I love it. And so I do love the Paper Mario series that is on Nintendo consoles, but I do have a. I do have board games that I like. So for my board game, I do like Scrabble. I love Scrabble. Wow.

B (30:30)

Okay.

A (30:30)

Yes, I love being able to play Scrabble because there's. It's simple. I don't have to think too hard about that. Oh, wait, actually, scratch that. My other favorite game, I do like Scrabble, but my other favorite game is Sudoku. I like Sudoku, and I like this because I do play it more than Scrabble because you need another person to play Scrabble. And I could play Sudoku whenever I want. And I like Sudoku because gets me out of my mind, especially if I'm ruminating or having anxious thoughts or I'm just like super stressed. I'll play Sudoku and it calms my mind down. I'm able to focus on just the numbers. It is my game that I play when I fly because I am not the biggest fan of flying. And if it gets too. If there's too much chaos, all the people and all the whatever, I just open up my phone and I'll start playing Sudoku. And the time goes by fast. I'm not thinking about X, Y and Z. And so I think Sudoku for me is a game where it could be used as a form of emotional mental regulation and to calm me down. And it is a big example of what I use in my work of like, we play depending on how we feel. So I'm not trying to get up and dance when I'm feeling, you know, when I'm in the airplane and I'm anxious because we're going through a pocket of turbulence. No, I need to get out of my head and stop all the crazy thoughts. And so it's like, nope, time to play Sudoku. Let's just figure out where the 2 belongs. What box does the 5 go? What box does the 7 go? Right? And then just really slow it down and bring it in. So, yeah, I think Sudoku is my second favorite game.

B (32:23)

Well, we have them ordered at least. We have Paper Mario as the top one. And then you have Sudoku. It's okay to be a video game gal. That's. That's good nowadays, you know, especially having a toddler. You know, we're very aware nowadays of, you know, the effects of screens early on and all that. But I had, I think, I think I was five, maybe six when I got my first console. I was very lucky that my family could get me that. So I had my own console at five. So yeah, what can I. Five, maybe six. I don't know. Not entirely sure. It was around that time. I'm not even considering letting my daughter have her own screen time by herself when she's that old. But. But that's because times have changed and we have new studies on all that stuff.

A (33:07)

But this is true. Yeah, the Internet is very much. I think it adds a little razzle dazzle to the screen time versus if you just had the console, you had like the game to focus on. And that's it. Versus now. It's like, I'm playing this game. I'm going to go watch this video. I'm going to go do this thing over here and see. Can be overwhelming.

B (33:28)

The game has changed.

A (33:30)

Yes, the game has changed.

B (33:32)

Sarah, is there, like I'd like to first thank you for spending investing this time with us and the Engagers, but is there anything else you want to say before we end the interview and of course, let us know where we can find out more about your work.

A (33:47)

Is there anything else I can. Yes. I mean, I invite people listening, the Engagers, to think about how you play. Right. And be really intentional with that. I meet a lot of folks, especially in networking, and I tell them what I do and you know, I don't play or, you know that, you know, I only do this form of play. And then once we get into more conversation, then they're like, wait, I guess I actually do play in that way. And I never actually realized it. And so knowing that we actually are playful human beings is something that we're biologically wired to do throughout our entire lifespan. So truly examine what these other ways that you may or may not already play and how to bring more intention around it and use it and see it as a form of necessity. Just as much as sleep and food are important to us, so is play. And so really bringing it into the space of, yes, there are times that we can set aside to play, but also how to approach life in a more playful way can really elevate our experience and how we play the game of life.

B (35:01)

So I think that absolutely we definitely can. And Sarah, where can we find out more about what you do in your work?

A (35:08)

Yeah, so check out my website, Curious Sunshine. There's actually a play alchemy quiz on there that you can take to figure out how you play. And there's some tips on how you can use that play style as leverage to your daily life. Also, my virtual escape room, the Labyrinth of Mystery, is also on my Curious Sunshine website. If you want to play that game, submerge yourself into an experience and then walk out with knowledge on mindfulness techniques and also some nice steps for how to tackle your goals in this new and playful way. And then I'm also on Instagram at Playfully Sarah. And you can also check out my YouTube channel where I dive a little bit more in play, and that is At Play with Curious Sunshine.

B (35:55)

Play with curious sunshine on YouTube as well. Engagers. Plenty of value. Lots of stuff that you can check out as well from Sarah. Beyond this interview. However, Engagers and Sarah, as you know, at least for now and for today, it is time to say that it's game over. Hey engagers and thank you for listening to the Professor Game podcast. And since you're interested in this world of creating motivation, engagement, loyalty using game inspired solutions, how about you join us on our free online community at Professor Game on School. You can find the link right below on the description, but the main thing is to click there. Join us. It's a platform called School. It's for free and you'll find plenty of resources. There will be up to date with everything that we're doing, any opportunities that we might have for you, and of course, before you go on to your next mission, before you click Continue, please remember to subscribe using your favorite podcast app and listen to the next episode of Professor Game. See you there.