Professor Game Podcast: From Fan to Creator – Jaime Schwarz on the IP Economy

Host: Rob Alvarez
Guest: Jaime Schwarz
Date: October 13, 2025
Episode: 414

Overview

In this episode, Rob Alvarez sits down with Jaime Schwarz, award-winning copywriter, creative director, and innovator in Web3 and digital rights, to explore the evolution from fan to creator in today's "IP Economy." Together, they dive deep into gamifying co-creation, the shift in digital ownership, the future role of studios and fans, and how open collaboration can transform how stories, games, and worlds are built and shared.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jaime’s Background and Daily Workflow

• Jaime’s professional journey: From agency creative direction to pioneering NFT patents, co-founding startups, and now leading MrKD DJ for digital rights and royalties management.
• A typical day: Varied—from teaching as an adjunct professor to creative networking and startup work, with strong ties to New York City’s dynamism.
  • “You might be trapped in the basement like I am here at my house right now, or... I network like crazy… the city directs you. So you’ll just be following along with me as I follow along with the flow of New York.” (03:33)

2. Gamifying Co-Creation: What & Why?

• The essence of gamification: A user journey with rewards and gravity that encourages participation.
• Co-creation explained:
  • From passive consumers to "prosumers"—participants actively shape content, not just absorb it.
  • Reference: The Exquisite Corpse game as an early analogy for collaborative creativity.
  • Quote: “If somebody does something, how do we gamify the system so that there’s encouragement for those who are normally consumers to be prosumers, producer consumers.” (05:13)
• Why gamify co-creation if it’s already happening?
  • Centralized platforms (e.g., Zynga on Facebook) have turned gamification towards manipulation and extraction.
  • True gamification should benefit the player/creator directly, not just serve the platform.
  • Quote: “You end up in a centralized system where gamification is extraction… that’s gamification in terms of manipulation rather than a conscious gamification.” (08:12)

3. Worldbuilding, Transmedia, and Shared IP

• Roots in folklore: All big media worlds (e.g., Star Wars, The Witcher) are collaborative at heart, building from shared traditions.
• Transmedia as modern mythmaking: Expanding stories across comic books, games, TV, film, etc. enriches the experience but often keeps fans as consumers.
• Jaime’s vision: A future where fans create officially sanctioned works—spinning out from core IP to acknowledged, licensable contributions.
  • Quote: "What's to stop the fan fiction side? ... If the person who owns the IP can create some rules, but give access to people to do that fan fiction and share in the IP, share in the profit together—that's a benefit for both..." (15:19)

4. Economic Drivers and Motivations

• Balancing corporate ownership & fan creativity:
  • Using Star Wars as an example, Jaime notes Disney’s expansion brings more content, but real co-creation requires revenue and rights-sharing.
• Ownership as motivation:
  • True ownership—digital or otherwise—boosts loyalty, engagement, and creativity.
  • The current model often resembles "techno-feudalism" with platforms extracting value from user effort (e.g., Farmville on Facebook).
  • Quote: “When you have interaction, the rabbit hole is so much deeper… that’s feudalism. Where if you think about what you did when you were doing farmville, that’s sharecropping… you are making money for the landowner, right?” (18:39, 18:40)

5. AI, World-Building, and Rights Management

• AI’s impact on creation: AI tools enable easy world-building, but raise critical questions about sourcing and IP—if AI references or remixes Star Wars, who gets paid?
• Example: Bored Apes/Yuga Labs – owning digital assets doesn’t always mean owning the rights; confusion arises over transferability and intellectual property.
  • Quote: “We need those receipts in order to be able to have control and transparency around those rights.” (24:47)

6. Platform Terms, Rights, and User Protection

• Complexity and transparency:
  • Contract language (platform TOS) is often inaccessible, making it hard for creators to know what they’re giving up.
  • The system’s complexity necessitates clearer consumer protection—creators often lack the capacity or time to read and understand legal agreements.
  • Quote: “It’s not our fault if it’s hidden. It’s not our fault if we don’t understand. It’s not our fault if we also don’t have any options.” (26:00)
• Host’s experience:
  • Rob shares deliberate choices to retain podcast ownership, even at personal cost, highlighting the trade-off between convenience and control.

7. Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) and Digital Personas

• Sports video games & NIL:
  • The shift allowing college athletes to profit from their digital likeness points to broader implications for digital creators, avatars, and IP.
  • Quote: "What are the name, image, likeness rights of something that is a digital version of you or a digital different version of characters that you’ve created and own the IP for? ... Basically nothing when it comes to ... ready player, me character." (31:32)

8. The Future: IP Economy and Open Co-Creation

• Where are we headed?
  • More powerful tools empower individual creators, disrupting the old studio/label system.
  • The value will be found in growing the pie for everyone (creators and rights holders), not shrinking it through closed systems.
  • Quote: “I’d like to introduce what I think is going to come after the service economy, which is the IP economy. I think that’s what people should be fighting for—ownership of your own ideas.” (34:45)
• Advice for creators:
  • Embrace IP thinking—move beyond patents and copyrights to systems where idea ownership and royalties are standard.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Gamifying Co-Creation:
  • “Anytime you’re standing on somebody’s shoulders officially… you’re just putting two old things together—that is a collaboration.” (06:41)
• On Worldbuilding and Fan Fiction:
  • “Fanfiction is high art bootlegging. If the person who owns the IP can create some rules, but give access to people to do that fan fiction and share in the IP, share in the profit together—that’s a benefit for both.” (15:19)
• On Platform Exploitation:
  • “That’s techno feudalism. … If you’re not paying, you are the product.” (18:40)
• On Legal Complexity:
  • “We have a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. You have to write your contracts in English… you can’t hide hidden fees.” (26:00)
• On the IP Economy:
  • “We need more than patents, we need more than copyrights, we need the dollars and cents exchange of ideas in the systems that we make.” (34:45)
• On Growth:
  • “The more you think about what you can get out of the system, the more you’re just trying to grab a larger slice of a shrinking pie. Grow the pie. How do we grow the pie? That’s it.” (35:13)

Key Timestamps

• 03:33 – Jaime on his day-to-day workflow and influences of New York City
• 05:13 – What does gamifying co-creation mean?
• 08:12 – Centralization and the manipulation vs. true empowerment in gamified systems
• 10:17–11:52 – Tradition of collaborative worldbuilding and transmedia
• 13:03–17:59 – Star Wars, Disney, the future of IP, and fan co-creation
• 18:25–22:02 – Ownership, techno-feudalism, and the power shift in interactive media
• 22:43–25:14 – AI, world-building, and intellectual property dilemmas
• 26:00–29:34 – Complexity and pitfalls of digital platform terms and content hosting
• 31:32 – The future of digital name, image, and likeness rights
• 32:03–34:45 – Next frontiers in creator-studio dynamics and empowering independent creation
• 34:45–35:37 – Jaime’s vision: IP Economy and why creators must fight for idea ownership

Flow & Tone

The conversation is lively, candid, and thought-provoking, mixing practical experience with big-picture thinking. Jaime’s analogies (feudalism, sharecropping, “standing on shoulders”) make the systemic issues tangible, while both he and Rob maintain an optimistic, collaborative energy—urging listeners to innovate, create, and claim their piece of the future IP economy.

Final Takeaways

• Move from consumer to co-creator: The future belongs to communities and creators who share in developing and profiting from IP.
• Ownership and transparency will drive engagement and motivation.
• Studios and platforms must evolve: From gatekeepers to partners in growing the creative “pie.”
• Read, question, and fight for your rights as a creator—both legally and technologically.
• The next economic revolution is about ideas and digital ownership—the “IP Economy.”

For more on Jaime’s work and the evolving landscape of digital rights, check out MrKD DJ, Team Flow Institute, and his ongoing writings on co-creation and smart contracting.